Aam Intikhabaat Ka Maamla, Supreme Court Par Tamam Nigehain, Kashif Abbasi Ka Ahem Tajzia
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00:00 And the situation is that in the case of General Elections, it is possible that the case will be settled today.
00:06 A meeting was held with the Chief Justice in the Supreme Court. An important meeting of the Chief Election Commissioner was held.
00:11 The issue of the Law and High Court was discussed after the ruling on the situation.
00:17 Birochi Islamabad, Khabar Ghumman is with us.
00:20 Mr. Khabar, the first room has been opened. The case is also there. This thing is going to be taken up today. What will you say?
00:29 Mr. President, I would like to say that the political parties of Pakistan, the media and the politicians of Pakistan are watching the Supreme Court.
00:42 And of course, according to our plan, the people of the Election Commission are still present in the building of the Supreme Court.
00:49 And this whole matter is in the final stages of the petition.
00:56 And we hope that this matter will be resolved today.
01:01 Obviously, the question you asked a while ago that the Chief Justice is going to Beirut on a two-week vacation.
01:08 And he wants to resolve this matter before leaving.
01:11 And since a decision has been made, and after the decision of the Law and High Court, it seemed that perhaps the Election Commission had to change the date of the Watford v.
01:22 Obviously, it is a matter of 54 days. But we would like to tell our viewers that in Section 52 of this Election Act, it is very clearly written that these appointments, especially ROC and DROC, should be made 60 days before the announcement of the extreme schedule.
01:41 Obviously, the Election Commission has only denied that. This whole matter is a pretext.
01:47 But we hope that this will be done. And you can see that all political parties, especially the PDM parties, are saying that this whole process should be part of it.
01:59 That no delay or delay in the election will be tolerated. And this matter should be moved forward.
02:06 And obviously, a petition was put forward by the PGA in front of the Lahore High Court, and a decision was made on it.
02:13 It seems that the Supreme Court has already made a decision on 8 February.
02:19 And obviously, the Election Commission and the President of Pakistan have also consented to it.
02:25 And I don't think that there can be any change on 8 February.
02:28 And if there is to be any change on this date, then only the Supreme Court can do it.
02:31 And no other institution, the Election Commission, the President of Pakistan, or any other institution has the authority to do so.
02:36 So, this whole matter is a pretext. And I think that if we look at it in a timely manner, then this will be a good decision.
02:43 Okay, Mr. Khawar, please stay with us. Please join us, CNN's person, Mr. Kashif Abbasi.
02:47 Mr. Kashif, a lot of happening has been happening in the last few hours regarding the Aam Intikhabad case.
02:52 It is possible that the case will be settled today. There is a lot of confusion.
02:55 At the moment, the Supreme Court has opened room number one. The attacker is also present.
02:59 The lights have also been lit. How do you see the situation in this regard?
03:03 Look, the debate that starts in Pakistan every few days, whether the elections will be held or not, is a very counterproductive debate.
03:13 Elections will be held, and should be held. This is the will of the law.
03:18 We have already seen the results when the elections of Punjab and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa were supposed to be held in Kararabad.
03:25 They were not held because of politics. And even now, all these debates start.
03:29 I think it should end once and for all. I have a little problem with the technicality.
03:34 The case that is already in Lahore High Court, you must remember that Justice Umar Raza Bandyal Sahib was Justice of Pakistan.
03:43 And at that time, the case of the elections of Punjab and KP was raised.
03:47 So, remember, there was a lot of debate whether it was a decision of 4-3 or 3-2.
03:50 A lot of judges thought that if the appeal is pending in the High Court, then the Supreme Court should not hear it.
03:56 The High Court should first give a timeline for the appeal, so that it can first give its decision and then the Supreme Court should hear it.
04:03 I would like to see how the Supreme Court will look at this matter.
04:06 Will the Supreme Court entertain this petition today, when this petition is already in the High Court?
04:13 But one thing is clear, the elections should be held on time. There should be no delays.
04:18 And if the Supreme Court can play its role for this, then it should be done.
04:23 So, Mr. Kashif Awad, if the Lahore High Court takes the decision, which it has decided,
04:29 then is it possible to hold the elections on time while taking it along?
04:34 Absolutely, elections can be held on time.
04:37 But on the delay of 8-10 days, Mr. Zardari is also ready, the party is also ready.
04:41 I believe that we have already crossed a lot of timelines.
04:48 It should be that if the High Court gives its decision,
04:53 if it says that the ROs and DROs will be Judicial Officers,
05:00 then a training process has to start, that training process should not take time.
05:05 These decisions should be made soon, in hours,
05:08 not in days and weeks, as we have seen in Pakistan,
05:11 that we want to put this thing, the courts open in the dark of the night,
05:14 and the things that we do not want to talk about, it takes months and it does not take time.
05:19 So, the decision should be made soon, who will be the ROs, Judicial Officers or the Bureaucracy.
05:25 And the training should start on that, and the timelines of the elections should be made soon.
05:31 So, Mr. Kashif, it was being said from the PTI that we will see that if the elections are being delayed,
05:38 after this request of theirs, then they may return the request.
05:41 But, we are seeing that the PTI has not yet given a decision.
05:46 Look, this is a strange thing, because I think there was a certain group of PTI,
05:53 who wanted the elections not to be postponed.
05:55 And if our petition is being filed in this regard, then we will take it back.
05:59 But there is another group, who thinks that the bureaucracy,
06:02 and the way the bureaucracy has worked in the last 6-8 months,
06:09 should not be there, but the Judicial Officers should be the ROs and DROs.
06:14 And that is why these instructions came from Chairman Tariq-e-Insaaf,
06:18 that this petition should be filed and Judicial Officers should be asked.
06:23 They have not yet decided anything.
06:25 It seems that the decision will not be made by the courts,
06:27 as to who will be the Judicial Officers and whether the election schedule can be postponed or not.
06:34 But I think Tariq-e-Insaaf still believes that there should not be bureaucracy,
06:39 but Judicial Officers should be there.
06:41 And I will say only what I have seen in the last few days,
06:44 that the courts are saying that they will let the campaign continue.
06:46 The same DCs and ACs are putting the 544, and are putting people under PO.
06:52 Their way of doing things is not that good.
06:54 But we know that our bureaucracy is very politicized.
06:57 But our judiciary is also very politicized.
06:59 We have seen this a lot.
07:00 So, let us see where this matter goes.
07:02 Absolutely.
07:03 Kashif Sahib, please come with us.
07:05 Hassan Ayub has also joined us.
07:06 Hassan Sahib, there has been a lot of happening in the last few hours.
07:09 And regarding the Aam Intikhabad case, which is to be taken up today,
07:14 and is being taken up, because the room number 1 has been opened.
07:19 And the accused is also present there.
07:21 So, it means that the opportunity to take up this case is being shown today.
07:25 No, there has been a little change.
07:27 The lights of room number 1 have been buffed.
07:31 And room number 1 was not open.
07:33 In fact, the door of the judges in room number 1 was opened.
07:37 But according to the latest information that has been received,
07:42 the lights of room number 1 have been switched off.
07:45 But this does not mean that the case will not be closed today.
07:49 This is not the case.
07:50 My sources are confirming that the application that will be made,
07:56 will be presented in the courtroom directly.
08:00 Now, on this matter, there is a slight doubt that this request will be of 183,
08:06 and an appeal will be made in the Supreme Court of Pakistan.
08:08 This is not 184, but an appeal of 183.
08:11 And when this appeal comes to the Supreme Court,
08:13 it will be handed in in the courtroom.
08:17 And because the Chief Election Commissioner has been interviewed,
08:21 and the three-member committee of the Supreme Court,
08:24 whose chairmanship is carried out by the Chief Justice,
08:26 and the senior judge, Judge Siddharth Arik Masood,
08:30 and Judge Siddharth Jhansal Ahsan,
08:32 this agreement has been made in principle, according to our sources.
08:38 Now, what bench is constituted?
08:43 According to the constitution of that bench,
08:46 and according to the seniority of that judge,
08:49 the room will be opened in accordance with that bench.
08:54 That is, if the third number is made according to the seniority,
08:58 then the third number, the courtroom number 3, will be opened.
09:01 Now, we have to see which judges are available.
09:04 At the moment, in Istanbul, the bench that is constituted,
09:06 how many benches are to be stopped, and who is doing its chairmanship.
09:10 But anyway, the room, the room number 1,
09:15 its lights have been turned off,
09:18 and the witness has also left from there.
09:22 There is no other courtroom light that has not been turned on yet.
09:25 Therefore, in this regard, whatever is to be said now will be in due course.
09:30 However, according to the sources in the Election Commission,
09:34 the election commission will file its appeal for 185-3 in the Supreme Court,
09:40 against the decision of the Lahore High Court,
09:43 and against the order of the Lahore High Court, in fact.
09:45 So, this matter will be taken up today.
09:47 And Attorney General for Pakistan is also present in his office at the moment.
09:52 His representative is also present.
09:54 And now, we are just waiting for the time when the Election Commission comes
09:58 and submits its application in the courtroom.
10:02 So, Hassan, please clarify this a little.
10:05 You are saying that room number 1 has been closed,
10:07 and room number 3 has been opened.
10:09 Will it be closed in that?
10:11 No, no, I did not say room number 3.
10:13 I said it as an example that if the judge's seniority is made,
10:16 that is, when room number 3 is made.
10:18 So, where will all this matter be held?
10:20 Where will this hearing take place?
10:21 As you are saying that it will be taken up today.
10:23 Yes, this matter will be taken up today.
10:25 Now, it depends on the time when the Election Commission's representative
10:29 reaches the building of the Supreme Court with his request.
10:33 This is one.
10:34 The second is that when he reaches,
10:36 then the sources I am telling you,
10:38 that the application will be handed in in the court.
10:43 So, this means that it has been decided that the Chief Justice himself is not doing it.
10:50 There is a high possibility of this.
10:52 After that, who will head this bench, this is not clear yet.
10:57 But the sources confirming that this case will be closed today,
11:02 the Supreme Court of Pakistan is taking up this matter,
11:05 and the application of the Election Commission is waiting.
11:08 The reason for this is that if the Supreme Court wants,
11:11 it can take its own notice,
11:13 but it will not be appropriate.
11:15 It will not look good from the perspective of optics.
11:17 That the Supreme Court, on the decision of the High Court,
11:19 which is being given by the subordinates,
11:21 that is, the court of the subordinates,
11:23 on the decision of that,
11:24 it should take its own notice.
11:25 That is, the Supreme Court is taking its own notice on the decision of the judiciary,
11:28 then it will not look good from the perspective of optics.
11:30 But this thing is known that,
11:32 what is being told to us,
11:33 the sources are telling that
11:34 under section 185(3) of the Election Commission,
11:38 its appeal will be issued.
11:40 And on that appeal, the Supreme Court will conclude.
11:43 And after the conclusion,
11:44 most likely, the decision of Lahore High Court,
11:47 will be suspended today.
11:49 Okay. The Election Commission will issue its appeal under section 185(b).
11:54 And the decision given in Lahore High Court,
11:58 and the case under the conclusion,
11:59 that will also be seen.
12:00 Kashif Abbasi Sahib,
12:01 we saw that this request was issued by the PTI,
12:05 in Lahore High Court,
12:06 after which an important decision was also come forward
12:08 regarding the case of the Supreme Court.
12:10 We saw that in the court,
12:11 there were also very important remarks that,
12:13 the poor people's money is spent.
12:15 When, due to ROs and DROs,
12:18 the election is rigged,
12:20 God forbid,
12:21 then there are many political parties,
12:23 they are the ones who are coming to us with requests,
12:25 that this election is rigged,
12:26 we will not accept it.
12:28 This is true.
12:30 This remark was made by Lahore High Court,
12:33 that the elections should be seen as fair.
12:36 That is why,
12:38 the case of the judicial officers,
12:42 was given because,
12:43 the bureaucracy,
12:44 which was to be trained,
12:46 should not be handled.
12:48 This was stated by the High Court.
12:50 But this is true,
12:52 that a free election should be seen.
12:55 It should be known that an election is being held,
12:57 free elections are being held,
12:58 people are getting the opportunity to express their opinions,
13:02 their wishes,
13:03 their political parties are fighting for the elections.
13:07 This should also be done.
13:09 An open field should be created for the elections.
13:12 And all the parties should come in the open field,
13:16 the parties should bring their candidates,
13:19 and decide on it.
13:22 No one should have any doubts or any objections.
13:28 The only problem is,
13:29 how will it be ensured?
13:31 How will it be ensured?
13:33 I saw a document,
13:37 which was given to the lower officials,
13:41 the principal,
13:42 and they were accused.
13:44 I saw the document in the screenshot.
13:49 I wish Mr. Fawazi's voice could reach us.
13:53 Mr. Khawar Guman, if you are present with us,
13:55 we would like to ask him a question.
13:57 Mr. Khawar Guman, we would like to ask you,
14:01 a request was made to the PTI in Lahore High Court,
14:04 and the matter of ROs and DROs was raised,
14:07 that it should not be from the bureaucracy,
14:08 but from the judiciary.
14:10 If the PTI takes back this request,
14:13 where will this matter go?
14:15 See, whether they take back this request or not,
14:20 because a decision has been made by Lahore High Court.
14:22 If that decision has to be taken back,
14:24 because a larger bench is also sitting on it,
14:26 and if the petition is taken back,
14:30 for example, if you look at the legal point,
14:33 when such a decision is made,
14:35 I don't know what the legal procedure is,
14:39 that you have taken a decision of Lahore High Court,
14:42 and a decision has been made on it,
14:43 and after that you say,
14:44 that we have made a mistake.
14:46 I don't think so, that is possible.
14:48 Fundamentally, if you look at the decision of Lahore High Court,
14:51 I think they were telling us,
14:55 and it is written in the decision,
14:57 that it was not stopped from the schedule,
14:59 but the issue is that there should be administrative officers,
15:02 or judicial officers.
15:04 I think we should take an optimistic view of this,
15:11 because it is a Supreme Court decision.
15:14 See, one thing is very clear,
15:16 Lahore High Court did take this matter,
15:19 but Lahore High Court or any other High Court
15:22 has no such authority or authority,
15:25 that the Supreme Court's decisions,
15:29 according to which the 8th of February is to be held,
15:33 there should be some restriction in it.
15:35 You will remember,
15:36 when the date of 8th of February was decided,
15:38 when the Supreme Court took this decision,
15:40 with the consensus of Election Commission and President of Pakistan,
15:43 then it was decided,
15:45 that now no excuse,
15:49 no excuse will be tolerated.
15:53 Now, because a legal issue,
15:55 a complicated issue has come up,
15:58 and if the Election Commission thinks that
16:01 because of the decision of Lahore High Court,
16:04 the execution of all their elections,
16:07 the Aam Isha Abad, Abad-e-Sul-Jindabad,
16:09 they are taking,
16:10 if there is any disease or problem in it,
16:13 then they have gone to the Supreme Court to take guidance,
16:17 and they have gone on time.
16:19 And the Supreme Court is hoping that
16:22 further guidance will be given.
16:24 So, this issue,
16:26 to solve it in this way,
16:27 or this method will be there,
16:28 if the funds are made,
16:29 and the larger funds of Lahore High Court
16:31 have to listen to the case,
16:33 then keeping that in mind,
16:34 a direction can be given by the Supreme Court.
16:37 We, of course, have to come to the Supreme Court on this decision,
16:40 that the schedule of the hearing should be announced,
16:43 and Lahore High Court should decide in this time frame.
16:46 And whatever case is to be decided,
16:47 a timeline can be set on it.
16:49 Right now, we are only doing conjecturing.
16:52 But, obviously,
16:53 the case has come before the Supreme Court,
16:55 and the Supreme Court will take its decision.
16:58 Okay.
16:59 And, Mr. Bukhawar,
17:00 now, this situation,
17:02 what is going to be its political implication?
17:05 Because we saw how all the political parties came,
17:08 and everyone has prepared their legal team
17:11 to file a petition.
17:15 So, in this situation,
17:16 how do you see this politically,
17:19 whatever decision will be made,
17:20 what will you say on this?
17:22 In the case of the schedule,
17:26 perception matters more than the facts.
17:29 Before perception,
17:31 it was made that the PDM's parties
17:34 are running away from the investigation.
17:36 If you look at that perception,
17:39 and the PTI is asking for an investigation,
17:42 it is obvious that there is a dent in that.
17:45 That, first, you were asking for an election,
17:49 now you have filed a petition,
17:52 and put a stop to it.
17:55 I am speaking the truth.
17:57 Now, what is the on-ground situation,
17:59 that will be known,
18:00 but the way I am saying,
18:02 because there won't be much politics on this.
18:05 The reason for that is,
18:07 because the Supreme Court is supervising all this.
18:10 Chief Justice's remarks,
18:13 instructions,
18:14 Supreme Court's orders,
18:15 and all the institutions are on one page.
18:18 There is no need for any means or resources.
18:21 You remember,
18:22 when there was a dispute in the past,
18:24 the governments said,
18:26 we don't have money,
18:29 the economic situation is bad,
18:31 or there is a security issue,
18:33 so we cannot hold an election.
18:35 Now, there is no restriction in this regard.
18:38 This is an administrative matter,
18:41 and the decision of the Lahore High Court
18:43 has created a little confusion.
18:45 So, the Supreme Court is present to find a solution to this.
18:49 And Pakistan is a country...
18:51 Okay, Mr. Farha, stay with us.
18:52 Mr. Kashyap, if you can hear us,
18:54 tell us,
18:55 the schedule was to be issued today,
18:57 on behalf of the Election Commission.
18:58 Now, this issue has come up.
19:00 So, can a decision be made on this issue today?
19:03 But I think,
19:04 this matter is to be issued on this schedule.
19:07 The Election Commission has said,
19:10 if the officers are changed,
19:14 or this matter of the stay order of the Lahore High Court,
19:16 we cannot issue a schedule,
19:18 obviously, we have to conduct training.
19:20 So, whatever the delay of the elections,
19:23 obviously, the Election Commission would have said to the Supreme Court,
19:26 that this is because of the stay order,
19:29 because of which we are hearing,
19:30 that two things have been fixed,
19:32 that are decided.
19:34 One is that the Election Commission will bring a request,
19:39 an appeal,
19:40 and the Supreme Court will take it up.
19:42 Only one thing is not decided yet,
19:44 that which bench will be fixed for it.
19:46 Whichever bench it is,
19:47 it will hear this appeal.
19:49 As I said earlier,
19:51 if there is a case in the High Court,
19:53 like the case of Punjab and KP elections,
19:57 this was a technical point,
19:58 which was taken up by these judges,
20:00 who were in the bench at that time.
20:01 You must remember,
20:02 a North Indian bench was made,
20:03 two judges said that the High Court should hear this case first.
20:06 And after that,
20:08 the decision of 3-2 came,
20:10 but everyone said that it is 4-3.
20:12 At that time, it was also said that the High Court should decide first.
20:15 They have an appeal.
20:16 The High Court had already endured the 90-day period of the Punjab and KP elections,
20:20 that the elections cannot go beyond this.
20:22 Still, when the appeal was going,
20:25 the appeal was being heard by the High Court,
20:27 so if I am not mistaken,
20:29 Justice Mansoor-e-Nisha said that
20:31 you can ban the High Court,
20:33 if it decides within three days.
20:35 And if necessary,
20:36 the Supreme Court can take this case after that.
20:39 Or should take it after that.
20:41 Now, it is to be seen whether the Supreme Court will want to take this case again while being in the High Court.
20:45 But still, the main basis is that there are two things.
20:49 One, the election should be on time.
20:51 And the second, the election should be free and fair.
20:53 No one should have any doubt in these two things.
20:56 Obviously, the date of the elections has come,
21:00 which is already out of the 90-day timeline,
21:02 which is given in the constitution.
21:05 The second question is about free and fair elections.
21:08 If the state is given permission to go to the High Court,
21:10 then the High Court thinks that the bureaucratic officers
21:13 may not be able to ensure free and fair elections.
21:18 Because of this,
21:19 whether judicial officers should replace them,
21:21 this debate was held.
21:22 But you must remember,
21:23 in the 2013 elections, when Nawaz Sharif was the winner,
21:26 the appeal was made to the judicial officers.
21:29 There was a big debate at that time.
21:31 Maybe the Chief Justice addressed the judicial officers at that time.
21:35 So, questions arise about elections in Pakistan.
21:38 Whether it is judicial officers,
21:40 the 2018 election or the 2013 election,
21:43 whether it is judicial officers or bureaucracy,
21:46 the appeal should be taken.
21:47 Questions will arise.
21:48 But in the current situation,
21:50 the way bureaucracy is dealing with politics,
21:53 the way it is using the MPO,
21:56 political campaigns are not allowed to be carried out by some parties or the judiciary.
22:00 Because of this, the judiciary took this petition to the High Court.
22:04 These people who are not allowing us to campaign,
22:07 the election has been announced, the date has been announced,
22:10 we are not allowed to campaign,
22:12 we are not comfortable with these people for the elections.
22:14 Now, this decision is again,
22:15 of course, the Supreme Court or the High Court,
22:17 either one of them has to make it or both of them have to make it.
22:19 So, it is really their plea that it is necessary.
22:21 It is their request that whether to have this election done through bureaucracy or judicial officers.
22:26 But again, coming back to the first point,
22:28 the election should be done on time.
22:30 And the election should be free and fair.
22:32 This is also the responsibility of our courts.
22:35 I am sorry, I have already said this before,
22:37 but I will repeat it again.
22:38 The situation has become like this.
22:40 Instead of apologizing after 10, 15, 20 years,
22:43 if we come in the process of fixing the problems that are happening,
22:46 then some people may not get the opportunity
22:49 to raise their fingers on any Supreme Court or any old Supreme Court,
22:52 whether it is the matter of elections,
22:54 like during the 2018 elections or whatever happened before that,
22:57 and this discussion is being held in the name of the courts and judges.
23:02 So, if you want to avoid that,
23:03 then this opportunity has come to the Supreme Court,
23:06 to the judges, to ensure that such things happen,
23:09 that elections are fair,
23:11 and all parties get a level playing field for elections.
23:16 Absolutely.
23:17 Elections should be held on time and should be free and fair.
23:21 Hassan Ayub, we would like to know from you,
23:23 you were saying that an appeal will be filed under Article 85(b)
23:25 on behalf of the Election Commission.
23:27 So, is there any progress in this regard?
23:29 No, I would like to clarify a little.
23:30 This is Article 185(3).
23:32 And secondly, an important development at the moment is
23:35 that another meeting of the Attorney General for Pakistan has started
23:39 for the last 12-15 minutes
23:41 with the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Pakistan,
23:43 Justice Qazi Fahimzad.
23:45 So, at this time, the Attorney General is not in his room,
23:48 but is present in the Chief Justice Chamber.
23:51 And what discussion is going on again,
23:56 it would be too early to say in this regard,
23:59 but the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Pakistan
24:02 has reached the Attorney General's Chamber.
24:05 And as Kashif Abbasi was saying,
24:08 the notification of the Election Commission on behalf of Aaruz
24:13 was suspended by the Lahore High Court.
24:16 Now the question is that the Supreme Court of Pakistan has decided
24:19 that on 8th February, they have decided to suspend the election