Key takeaways from the Q&A with H.E Paul Kagame at the Rwanda-Zimbabwe Trade & Investment Conference

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Transcript

00:00 Your Excellency, how are you? I'm very well, I'm very well, thank you. Thank you so much.

00:05 I hope you are well too. I am well, I'm sure you can see that. Your Excellency, let me first

00:16 start by appreciating you for giving us this opportunity as Zimbabwe to visit

00:24 your country. We've, over the days that we've been here, we've learned a lot, we've

00:32 seen a lot, we have observed a lot, and I believe the colleagues here, they share

00:41 the same sentiment. We want to also appreciate the wonderful work you are

00:47 doing of transforming your country into a futuristic country. When you look at

00:54 the way, the strides that you are making in Rwanda, we as young people on the

01:01 continent, we are filled with hope, we are filled with a lot of aspiration, and

01:08 as leaders, I believe we are taking a lot from what you are doing.

01:14 Ladies and gentlemen, we appreciate the President. Thank you. Your Excellency, I

01:23 want to take the privilege of being the first one to ask you my question. As a

01:29 leader in Africa, I lead an organization in Zimbabwe. It is a media house, AB

01:36 Communications. I'm sure colleagues here, they now know who AB Communications

01:42 is. It's a media company with radio, newspaper, we are in that space. But this

01:50 COVID-19 pandemic has brought a lot of challenges to us as leaders, and I also

01:59 believe everybody in the house, no one's life has remained the same amidst this

02:06 pandemic. When I look at us living today as corporate leaders and heads of

02:15 ministries, and I look at you as a head of a country that went through a very

02:21 difficult past, what comes to mind is the genocide against the Tutsis, but with

02:30 such a background, you've managed to pick up the pieces and drive the

02:38 people, lead the people, and show them the way, and achieve what you've achieved.

02:43 My question to you is, as a leader, what are the secrets? I want the tips, I want

02:50 the nuggets. What are the tricks? How do I lead amidst all that negativity and

02:57 adversity? Thank you, sir. Well, I don't think there are any tricks or shortcuts

03:08 or that there is any magic. After all, as people, as human beings, we are going to

03:19 do what is humanly possible. We cannot do things out of that scope. But I guess

03:32 with every individuals, with people of countries, and so on, they've got to look

03:41 at the challenges before them. We have, as you said, we have had tragedies of

03:47 different kinds. I mean, there was tragedy, our country faced 27 years ago.

03:58 But it is not just a tragedy that just happened. It really has a history to it.

04:07 It is one of those things that only happens and exposes the history of the

04:19 problem, and the problem that built up over many years and then ended up

04:28 in that kind of situation of genocide. In fact, just like even this pandemic we

04:36 talk about, COVID-19, which has affected the whole world, one thing one needs to

04:45 observe carefully. We see problems associated with COVID-19. But if you

04:57 observe carefully, COVID-19 has also exposed our weaknesses, things that were

05:06 not right, things that were not in place, or the thinking that has not been

05:15 operationalized, so that when a tragedy like this, or a pandemic like this

05:21 happens, then you simply deal with it the way you must deal with it. You find

05:28 people are taken aback, it's by surprise, it's something that is insurmountable.

05:33 But really, all it does is exposes weaknesses in countries, in societies,

05:44 and how things are managed. One quick example is, in our case, Africa, meaning

05:52 Rwanda, we discover that we haven't made sufficient investments in public health.

06:06 That comes out straight. And then you start even wondering, why didn't we make

06:11 investments all along before? Or we did not think about, which we are now

06:18 beginning to think about, manufacturing of vaccines, different pharmaceutical

06:28 needs, because we always waited and we're happy to keep receiving them from abroad.

06:37 Now, therefore, to your point, back to your point, the tragedy that befell our

06:50 country in 1904 wasn't just something that happened either by accident or by

07:02 coincidence of some kind, and therefore we have to deal with it. No, we have a

07:06 history that, over decades, that led up to that. So when dealing with the problem,

07:14 like that one, let's say in Rwanda, there are choices to make. First, you find the

07:22 problem, therefore give it that history. And that means quickly that you've got to

07:28 think of, how do I address the root causes, those problems that led to this

07:37 to happen? Even before you think about dealing with the actual situation itself,

07:44 there and then, you're already thinking about, how did it happen? How did we get

07:51 here? And then from there, you've got to make a choice. Can we change the

07:58 situation? Can we do things differently and avoid that history and therefore

08:04 also avoid that kind of problem happening again in the future? So that's

08:10 how we approached it. But of course, again, all of a sudden, not everyone is going to

08:17 think like that. So that's how it takes people, leaders. And leaders also are not

08:27 going to address such problems alone. You've got to create a kind of

08:34 infrastructure that is going to bring in everybody, because everybody is affected.

08:40 In our situation, everybody was affected. So it is everybody that is going to be

08:46 involved with better understanding of what our problem, what caused our problem,

08:54 or what our problem is, and then work together to address it. So in our

09:03 particular case, it has been the politics, it has been the economics, it has been

09:11 how socially people relate. Therefore, we've had to take a hard look at this

09:22 problem and face the hard things we had to deal with and deal with it without

09:29 excuses. Yes, if we had excuses, if we were to look for excuses, we would have

09:34 failed. In fact, already people had cast us as a failed state. It was a failed

09:48 situation. People did not give us a chance. They thought there was no tomorrow

09:54 for Rwanda. It is gone. So, but we had to rise to the occasion and deal with the

10:07 matter. And I guess other people dealing with their own problems can also be

10:17 successful or make good progress in dealing with them. Thank you.

10:25 I think I got my secrets. If I can summarize it for you, ladies and

10:32 gentlemen, get to the root of the problem, involve the people, as you as a leader,

10:40 you are not going to solve it alone. So, thank you once again, your excellency.

10:49 Now, let me take this opportunity to open to the floor for a few questions. I'll

10:57 take and your excellency, his excellency will respond. Thank you.

11:08 Where are my mics? Okay, yes. One thing we've learned quickly is discipline in

11:21 Rwanda. There is discipline. We learned there is extreme discipline in Rwanda. We are

11:31 very impressed, your excellency. Please, can you share us the secrets of the

11:35 strategies of this discipline so that we take it back to Zimbabwe to the private

11:39 sector into government?

11:42 Well, that's one area that gives us a great investment opportunity, so we can

11:55 work together on that. But on a serious note, again, I guess the discipline comes

12:14 from what I said earlier, that hard look at the problems of any nation by anyone.

12:29 And then, in dealing with those challenges, if you are set out, you have

12:40 set out to involve people, which must be the case, it has to be translated into

12:54 what people see as their benefits as well, directed to them. The people must

13:03 see that what they are faced with and what they must address, if they address

13:08 that, they are the beneficiaries. That's what I'm talking about. Second, like in

13:17 our case, as we set out to deal with our problems, in fact, we're already having

13:28 in our minds the kind of end state we want. You start on a journey of dealing

13:40 with the challenges, but you're already having in mind the destination, so you

13:47 are driven with that. So that sense of urgency, that clarity on where you are

13:54 coming from and where you want to go, and then the involvement of people and

14:00 linking that with their benefits and showing it to them, that's actually the

14:06 role of leaders. You explain, you show things, so that in maybe a few days,

14:15 weeks, months, or years, people start seeing benefits, so they feel the

14:22 benefits. Then they are focused on that. So that discipline is about the focus

14:34 that is generated by the sense of urgency and therefore the benefits that

14:41 are going to be derived from dealing with whatever challenges you have before

14:47 you. So it's theoretically, I mean, that's what it is. That's what I can say. But I

14:56 can see your point also in saying, okay, theoretically you can say that, but how

15:06 do you make it work? Because that's where problems develop. That's why you will

15:17 find people make more progress than others, maybe in similar situations.

15:24 It's not because they could not define what the issues are and approach to them,

15:32 and so maybe all of them have the kind of knowledge of how to deal with the

15:37 issue, but when it comes to the real practice, that's where the difference

15:44 comes up. So I don't think I'll give you a completely satisfactory answer, because

15:59 on the theory side, on the side of defining what the problem is, we may be

16:04 together and even how to approach problems, but in practice you will find

16:12 there are these variations which I can't fully understand, but it will

16:19 always depend on whether any situation had the opportunity for leaders to

16:27 emerge that would stick to what needs to be done and work with the people and

16:35 then get to where they want to go. So we can continue discussing that and make

16:41 the necessary investments we said we could make.

16:49 Thank you, Your Excellency. I'll take another question. Right on my right there.

17:02 Thank you, Your Excellency. My name is Ferdi Turasega. I'm a Rwandan doing business

17:08 both here as the headquarter, also doing business in Zimbabwe. We have an office

17:14 based in Harare, Samora Masher 146, for those who are from Zimbabwe. So, Your

17:20 Excellency, it's not a question, it's actually an appreciation and a

17:24 contribution, because I remember I turned 10 years old when you just liberated

17:30 Rwanda, and there's a slogan in Zimbabwe where they say Zimbabwe is open for

17:37 business. I think everyone here knows that slogan. I want to say that Rwanda

17:41 means business, because I'm really a product of the change and reforms that

17:47 happen in this country. You can imagine, 10 years old, today I'm 37, and I own a

17:55 company that's listed on Rwanda Stock Exchange. It's called EPC Africa Group,

18:00 but the subsidiary of EPC Africa Group is listed on Rwanda Stock Exchange. We are an

18:06 IPP, what you call independent power producer. And when I went to Zimbabwe

18:10 on vacation, I realized there was an opportunity in energy, and I started a

18:15 business in Zimbabwe, because I know everything is possible.

18:19 During the pandemic, when everyone was running away, I found the

18:23 opportunity, and today we are doing business, and I'm encouraging so many

18:27 Rwandans, even Zimbabweans. And since I understand that this trade corridor of

18:34 Rwanda and Zimbabwe is important, if it works both ways, I encouraged so many

18:40 Zimbabweans, and today I can tell you that we have a strong investor among the

18:46 team, Mr. Exodus, who has, your excellency, he's going to invest,

18:53 he's very strong in housing, and he's looking at our market and putting a lot

18:57 of houses here for affordable housing. So I'm encouraging the people, being

19:03 Zimbabwe and Rwandan, to really ride in this highway that our two excellencies

19:08 are building for us, because we share so many, being past, even the future.

19:14 Thank you, your excellency.

19:17 I think, if I may just react to that, I think that's wonderful, and my

19:27 conclusion to that is, let's do both. Let's be open to business, and let's mean

19:33 business. So I think if we...

19:38 Thank you. I'm sure, Minister Lof, you've heard that Zimbabwe is open for business,

19:43 and let's mean business. Thank you. I'll take my last question before our

19:52 conclusion, in the middle there. Thank you.

19:57 Thank you, your excellency. There's been a significant and clear mind shift

20:05 change that has happened in Rwanda, which I think is responsible for the

20:10 significant growth and development that we have seen. You have spoken in your

20:16 address about hard work, dedication, and self-reliance. You also talked about a

20:23 destination, and what I wanted to ask you, your excellency, is to say what do you

20:27 see for Rwanda in the next five to ten years? What is your vision for Rwanda?

20:33 Thank you, your excellency. Building on all that, you've referred to what has been

20:43 said. For Rwanda in the next ten years, and I use the idea being on the journey,

20:53 we are on a journey in search of prosperity, development. If you put it in

21:10 some technical terms, it's either today we are a low-income country, we want to be

21:21 a medium-income country, upper-medium, and higher. But it's not just about level of

21:35 development also. As you think about that, you think about the stability of

21:41 society, our society, and in particular, Rwanda, where we have come from. I think

21:49 we've been building toward being a nation. We may have diversity in our society,

22:02 but that gets to be resolved for the unity, the strength of the country. So that

22:12 development, that prosperity I'm talking about, which we must achieve, must achieve

22:18 on the basis that everyone benefits, irrespective of their religion, whatever

22:28 has divided us in the past. So the vision is we've already made some little

22:38 progress. We want to make more, maybe two times what we have already achieved, or

22:49 if possible, three times. Why not? I think we should not limit ourselves to how

22:58 fast and how much we can get bearing in mind where we want to be. So really, that

23:09 is trying to do better, do more of what we are doing already, and taking our

23:17 people to that level of development where development and stability, people

23:29 come comfortable with that and we need to have that.

23:34 Thank you, excellent. All right, let me also take this opportunity to

23:43 congratulate you for finally winning a game, as of now.

23:50 We're about to win more. My final question to you, Mr. President, is on the

23:59 sponsorship. I'm on Twitter, I follow you. I've read so many, so many negativities,

24:07 you know, sadly from African people. You know, we are Africa, we are poor, why are

24:14 we giving money to those guys? They are millionaires. My question is, what has

24:19 been the impact of that activity, that intervention? How has it been? Well, I

24:30 think negativity arises out of just confusion. Yes, I just, I don't think

24:39 those people know what they are talking about. I really don't think they know

24:47 what they are talking about, because if they imagine that Rwanda just started

24:52 spending its money anyhow, like that, and in fact giving it to those who don't

25:01 even need money like I do, like Rwanda does, I think that's where the confusion

25:09 starts from. By the way, not only are we working with Arsenal, we are happy to do

25:17 that, and I've been a fan of Arsenal Football Club for over 30 years, maybe 35.

25:28 But we're also working with another football club, Paris Saint-Germain, the one in

25:37 France, the French League. Now, of the several pillars of our development, in

25:51 fact one of them is tourism. We've invested in tourism and infrastructure

25:58 and trained people around services that go along with that and so on and so

26:08 forth. But tourism, you need visitors. You need people to come and enjoy what the

26:19 country offers, the beauty of the country, the experience and so on and so forth.

26:26 In fact, the story might be wrong. Let me try to see how it is. It's the same

26:34 confusion even our own people had one time. When after 1994, maybe around '98,

26:49 '97, '98, we started building infrastructure with limited resources. We built a hotel.

27:03 I remember at first it was managed by Intercontinental, then later on it was

27:12 bought by Serena, but it was built initially on government money. And we

27:20 were attacked, being attacked by people here and there saying, "Government is

27:25 wasting money. You are building a five-star hotel. What?" They really thought

27:32 we were stupid. So we just kept quiet and we said, "Okay, maybe after five years

27:39 we'll get to understand what we were really doing and see how long it takes

27:44 some people." But the strategy was because we were already building up the

27:55 momentum for development of tourism. And when you are having tourism, there are

28:04 those ones, the backpackers, the others who really have money and want to spend

28:15 it. So I was thinking about them. If people want to spend their money on the

28:21 beauty of the country and the experience and they come and have nowhere to stay,

28:27 or you have limited them to some place they are not comfortable with, then they

28:32 will not come. But if they know they will come and stay in a good hotel, they

28:38 will stay. So you can see the contradiction here. People are saying,

28:42 "You are wasting money building up this infrastructure." But the

28:47 infrastructure was built for a reason. And in a short time, in fact, the hotel

28:54 did well and, as I was telling you, we sold it and paid off the loans. And we

29:05 did not build it as a government to run hotel business, no. We built the hotel so

29:17 that when it serves its purpose, the private sector may take it over and run

29:25 the business. But initially, government cannot dictate to the private sector and

29:32 say, "Put your money here. Put your money there. Put your money in..." No. The

29:37 private sector puts their money where they want, not where I tell them to put

29:41 it. So in this case, if I had waited to tell them to build a hotel, a five-star

29:48 hotel, they would not have built it. But because I built it and it was there

29:53 standing, then the private sector gets attracted and say, "Oh, you know what? I

29:59 want that hotel." It's different from telling the person, "You build the hotel,"

30:05 or, "You're building it and then selling it." So for the sort of tourism, the

30:17 investments we made, the partnership we have with Arsenal has actually attracted

30:25 more people who have brought to the country more money than we have given

30:32 Arsenal. So you don't have to be a very sharp businessman. I'm not one, but I

30:46 think on this one we got it right. So that negativity is... But on the other

30:56 hand, by the way, it's not so much the Africans who have been negative. I may

31:03 even disagree with that. Actually, it has been... If it is Africans, there are few,

31:09 but they teamed up or used the outsiders. Because I have seen some writings in the

31:18 British papers, not written by Africans, no, but by those people there saying,

31:28 "You know, Rwanda is wasting our money because they give us aid," right? And they

31:35 think... But even then, they are mistaken. If you give me aid, how do you want me to

31:43 use it? Or why would you dictate to me how I use it? If you can give me 50

31:51 million and in using the 50 million, I'm able to earn the country 300 million,

32:03 why would you blame me for that? There must be something wrong in... So, but then

32:12 they politicize it, they bring it into, you know, use it for politics.

32:18 So I say it is just confusion. But we are happy with the partnership with

32:25 Arsenal, even happier that I'm the fan of Arsenal. We are now doing well with

32:34 PSG and I'm now a good fan of PSG. And I tell you, when you come back and you

32:47 have time, we can go into numbers. I will show you how. It is working very well for

32:53 us and I think...

32:59 And it is working very well for those we have a partnership with. I think

33:06 Your Excellency, you are a shrewd businessman, contrary to your disclaimer. Thank you.

33:11 I'll do business in my next life after this.

33:16 you

33:18 [MUSIC PLAYING]

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