Las Vegas Raiders Insider Podcast: three leading coaching candidates, fixing NFL officiating, and more
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00:00 Hi everybody, this is Hondo Carpenter from Sports Illustrated's Fannation Las Vegas Raiders
00:07 Insider Podcast, joined by my good buddy, the editor and publisher of thespun.com.
00:12 The great Matt Holadek joins us as he does each and every week.
00:15 Matt, let's get right into it.
00:18 The Raiders come out in a game they should have won.
00:23 The offensive play calling, not the entire game, but certainly at important places, was
00:31 really bad.
00:34 The defense was not bad, they just were not scoring two touchdowns, which you can never
00:39 count on that each and every week.
00:41 They were actually good, but they didn't score the two touchdowns.
00:47 The Raiders offense continues to show the same problems they had all year.
00:51 I know we both predicted a win, I think we were both surprised, not that the offense
00:56 was bad, because we've seen a track record that tells us this offense is bad.
01:02 What surprised me was the play calling, because at times it was atrocious, it wasn't bad,
01:09 it was atrocious.
01:12 Inside, no weather issues.
01:17 I think the play calling, for example, the Aiden O'Connell at the end of the game, if
01:22 they'd have been attacking like that earlier, I think it would have been different.
01:27 To me, I understand players were not great, but this one to me rested heavily on Bo Hardegre,
01:36 the offensive coordinator.
01:38 Just some play calling, I think some sense of urgency, all of that.
01:43 What do you think?
01:44 Where do you disagree, agree?
01:45 What were your thoughts on the game?
01:48 I do think from a big picture standpoint, obviously it's disappointing to lose a game
01:52 that was a winnable game against an opponent that's fighting for the playoffs, and now
01:59 is going to be playing for a playoff spot in Week 18.
02:04 I did like the fact that you have to see the past game get involved a little bit, especially
02:09 after not having to do much and not being able to do much against Kansas City, but you
02:13 see Aiden O'Connell throw a couple of touchdowns, you see Devontae Adams back being his usual
02:19 self, Jacoby Myers getting involved.
02:21 I think that what we saw is something that's plagued the Raiders multiple times during
02:27 the year at different points, and that's slow starts.
02:30 When you start slow, fall behind.
02:34 Sometimes it's tough to battle back in the NFL when you're playing a decent team and
02:39 you're not getting those scores either on defense or special teams, like what you said,
02:45 they got them two weeks in a row.
02:47 That's never going to happen week in and week out.
02:51 Do I think it changes anything for me in terms of Antonio Pierce, his case for the permanent
02:57 job?
02:58 I don't.
02:59 I think he still has made an excellent case so far.
03:01 I think that come home now this week and you have a winnable game, I guess the broad goes
03:07 if you win that, then Antonio Pierce closes out his interim tenure at five and four.
03:14 The Raiders will have made a two game improvement on last season in total wins, total wins and
03:19 losses.
03:20 I think you got to feel you feel pretty good about yourself going into the offseason.
03:24 So it's a missed opportunity this past week, but I think there's still something in front
03:30 of them in the finale.
03:33 I think that most fans probably figured that they weren't going to make the playoffs even
03:38 after beating the Chiefs as great of a win as that was.
03:41 I think it's about finishing strong now moving forward.
03:44 Matt, I want to make it real clear.
03:47 I do not believe the Raiders lost that game because of officiating.
03:50 I want to make it really, really clear.
03:53 But once again, it was a horribly officiated game on both sides.
03:56 I mean, there were there were penalties called against the Colts that I look over at the
04:01 person sitting next to me and we just both like, wow, I sure didn't see that.
04:06 And then there were penalties like Jack Jones offsides on the field goal, which he wasn't.
04:11 And the video clearly showed he wasn't.
04:14 There was a P.I. and when the ball's out of bounds, it just literally made no sense.
04:19 The officiating in the NFL is atrocious.
04:23 And I was having a conversation last night with someone not in the league, but someone
04:30 out here in Vegas who is very involved in the betting world, not a better one.
04:36 I don't know if they're better, but they work in the industry of betting.
04:41 And I just said to them, at what point does Vegas step in and say, listen, you know what's
04:49 going on here?
04:50 And he gave me several scenarios.
04:53 He said, what happens when there's a huge bet and a call is missed and the NFL gets
04:58 sued?
04:59 He goes, do I think they win the suit?
05:02 No, but there's all of that there.
05:05 He goes, you just never know.
05:07 And he went on and gave me several, not just that one scenarios.
05:12 What's the answer here?
05:13 I know that John Schaap, who joins us each and every week on the podcast, who's an attorney.
05:17 We've been talking about it since week one, how bad it's been.
05:21 I don't think when I talk to friends of mine who are referees, they tell me they agree
05:29 that phishing has not been great, but they're already watching tons of film.
05:35 It's not like going full time is going to make them that much better when they're already
05:41 working almost full time.
05:44 And a lot of these guys have other careers.
05:47 Would they be willing to give them up?
05:48 We don't know how much money.
05:50 There's such a huge amount here.
05:52 What's your answer?
05:53 Or is there one?
05:56 It's a great question.
05:57 It's a tough question.
05:58 And it's a necessary question, because here's the thing.
06:02 It seems like, and listen, any time there's a missed call anywhere, you know, there's
06:09 going to be, you know, Twitter's going to blow up or things like that.
06:12 That's just the way that the sports world works.
06:15 And there's always going to be fans complaining about officiating after games because fans
06:19 are in the heat of the moment, passionate, are going to think about that time something
06:24 happened.
06:25 But I do think that what we've seen now on a weekly basis in multiple games per week,
06:33 that's a problem, is we are seeing calls that are just egregious or like nonsensical.
06:41 And they're starting to impact games.
06:44 And they're starting to get, you know, it's a constant conversation with the refs.
06:52 You know, look at Saturday night, excuse me, Detroit and Dells, the controversy with Taylor
07:00 Decker and the other lineman, I'm sorry, his name is number 70.
07:08 His name is escaping me, a big dude, 6'10".
07:12 Who reported, whether they both reported or not, whether it was filed to the letter of
07:16 the law.
07:17 And then you also had a penalty.
07:18 Now that obviously was the big thing that kind of hurt the Lions.
07:22 But earlier in the fourth quarter, the refs made an egregious call on Peyton Hendershot,
07:29 tied it into Dallas, calling him for tripping when it was actually Aiden Hutchinson's leg
07:35 that tripped Tony Pala.
07:36 I don't know if I'm not saying it was intentional, but it wasn't even, you know, the Saint and
07:41 God, it was just, it's a mess.
07:45 And I think that you're seeing week in and week out big mistakes and just major plays.
07:53 And I think this is what you brought up as a fascinating angle, because the NFL has not
07:59 hid recently its ties with gambling.
08:02 I mean, they promote daily fantasy, they promote, they're partnered with Draft Kings and all
08:08 these, these entities.
08:11 It's not like there's a team in Las Vegas that they're saying for decades, they were
08:15 never, you know, they couldn't have a team in Las Vegas.
08:19 It could, I don't, again, like you said, if somebody tried to sue the league or make a
08:24 big stink, would it work for them?
08:27 Like would they reach their objective?
08:29 Probably not.
08:30 But it would still be a bad look for the NFL.
08:33 And I don't really know what the answer is here.
08:36 I don't know if it's work harder for the referees, or is there a way to work smarter?
08:42 Is there a way to differentiate, you know, the type of training methods they have and
08:48 the way they watch film and the way they prepare for stuff?
08:51 Or is the league, are the officials emphasizing or worried about the wrong things?
08:56 Should the league change its policy on how it, you know, pursues officials or promotes
09:02 officials?
09:03 I don't know what the answer is there.
09:04 I really don't.
09:05 I don't know enough about the inner workings of NFL officiating to give a good answer.
09:09 But I will say this, just from watching league week to week and writing about the league
09:13 week to week, it's a big issue.
09:16 And it's not just like, "Oh, I don't know about that call," or, you know, "That's in
09:20 the heat of the moment," or "They could have let that hole go," something like that.
09:25 There are major mistakes every week where the ref either misses something or blows the
09:31 whistle and throws a flag on something that really wasn't even there that are happening.
09:35 I know it's a long-winded answer, but that's what it is.
09:38 No, well, it's a long-winded question.
09:41 Here's the thing that sticks out to me, though.
09:43 The integrity of the game now, I was walking through the airport yesterday and had a gentleman
09:53 who works at one of the car rental agencies stop me and tell me he follows me and all
09:59 of that.
10:00 And he said to me, "Is the league rigged?"
10:05 Now, I told him no, because I don't believe that the league is rigged.
10:09 I know people who are officials, who, you know, I know are men of integrity.
10:15 I know them well.
10:19 But here's what I took away from that conversation, is when your fan base begins to question that.
10:27 Do you remember game shows in the '50s ended up, you know, there were huge legal ramifications
10:33 because of game shows in the '50s.
10:36 When the people who are your clients begin to question that, and this is a guy probably
10:44 65 years old, and to me, it sends a message.
10:50 And if you don't address it somehow, you know, John Schaap and I, as I mentioned, we've been
10:55 talking about it all year on the podcast.
10:59 He says you add another official up in the box who has a quick way to review almost every
11:04 play, every call, who can send a whistle down and say, "No, that was a bad call.
11:09 No, we got to overturn that."
11:12 Who they almost have godlike powers that they can review anything and everything if it looks
11:18 bad or they can stop the game.
11:20 What do you think of that?
11:22 Interesting proposal.
11:24 And here's the thing with me, I know a lot of people are tired of the replays and the
11:29 delays and all the reviews and stuff like that.
11:32 And I totally get it because there's times I've watched games and it keeps going and
11:35 you're like, "Oh, just get on with the actual action."
11:37 However, I've always been on the side of let's get it right for the sake of the integrity
11:49 of the game and the authenticity of the game as opposed to, well, let's just keep everything
11:57 as much of a human element as possible.
11:59 For me, I don't mind, in another sport, I don't mind the enhanced replay for baseball.
12:09 There's some ticky-tack things like, "Oh, if a guy overslept a base by this much and
12:15 he's out on the review, that's annoying."
12:17 But I don't mind reviews out of a bang-bang play at first or a close play at second or
12:24 home plate or something because to me, I want the game to be correct.
12:30 I want the game to be what it should be, whether it benefits my team or doesn't benefit my
12:36 team.
12:37 So I think that's an interesting idea.
12:40 Now here's the question, there's two questions with that.
12:42 How do you do it so that there aren't exorbitant amounts of delays or it's not a constant thing?
12:51 And what would be the attitudes of the officials on the field to be checked like that for judgment
13:04 calls?
13:05 And not just a judgment call like, "Okay, a fumble or review every score and turnover,"
13:11 because that's already done and that makes sense.
13:12 Because sometimes there's a bang-bang play in the moment, it's so close, the point of
13:18 the football might hit the ground and a guy calls a complete or things like that, and
13:23 you need review.
13:25 But if the ref is buzzing down and saying, "No, that offside's call was incorrect,"
13:32 or, "No, the player lined up the right way," or things like that, do the refs on the field
13:37 feel like they're being targeted or feel as if it shows them up at all?
13:43 That's something that you would have to wonder about.
13:45 So it's an interesting idea, though.
13:48 Two quick things addressing that.
13:50 So my friends who are refs, I've asked them, and they said, "Anything that gets the game
13:55 better, we hate it when there's a controversial call."
13:58 And they go, "So one guy specifically said to me, who refs at a position that is quite
14:04 often under controversy, he has not been this year but has been under controversy, he said
14:11 to me, "I love it.
14:12 To me, you get into this because you love the game.
14:16 There's no worse feeling in the world than when you make a call and you go back and realize
14:20 you cost a team a game."
14:22 He said, "I'm for it."
14:24 John's belief is that with today's modern age, you get a couple of kids in there to
14:29 actually do the video, so wham, it's cut up quick so you can look.
14:34 My little brother Kai made up a, said something yesterday to me about officiating just being
14:42 so bad and said, "At what point do they look to AI like baseball?"
14:47 And I'm going to tell you, I tried to explain to him, you don't want AI.
14:53 Because then when you open AI, it is horrific.
14:58 AI, in my opinion, is just not good in just about a million different areas.
15:03 But AI is not the area and it's not the direction that you want to go.
15:08 But I found it fascinating that the officials I know were like, "Hey, if it makes the game
15:12 better, I want to make the game better."
15:16 I thought that was fascinating.
15:17 Yeah, and I think it's commendable on their part.
15:22 And also, it makes sense when you think about it because look at, again, going back to that
15:26 Dallas Detroit game, the reports out after the game and on Sunday were that that crew
15:33 was going to get some type of reprimand and they're not going to be scheduled to work
15:40 in playoffs this month.
15:42 And if you're a ref, you want those assignments.
15:46 You want to be working playoff games and going deep into January.
15:49 So this is now the second or third time this crew has had some issues this year with different
15:55 things.
15:56 You don't want to be part of that because you don't want that type of reputation around
16:01 the league and reputation with fans and with the media.
16:05 And you want the best assignments.
16:07 So I do think that could be a motivating factor for officials if it ever came to that, would
16:13 say, "Hey, listen, this is just trying to limit mistakes, limit controversy so that
16:19 everybody can win in the long run."
16:22 Because I think that that's the best thing for everybody.
16:28 There's never a perfect system, but I think that that could be helpful.
16:34 And I don't think the NFL wants AI because I think they want a portion of the human element
16:41 for whatever reason.
16:42 All right, I want to turn to tension.
16:44 Nothing has happened that changed my opinion that Antonio Pierce should get this job.
16:48 Has anything changed yours?
16:49 No, I think that when you look at what he's been able to do as a whole, you've got to
16:54 judge his whole body of work.
16:56 He's 4-4 as an interim head coach, but you look at the big win over Kansas City, the
17:00 fact that they're playing hard, they've seemed to kind of take on his spirit and embody what
17:05 he wants in a team.
17:08 So many teams could quit after they were 5-5, lost three tough games in a row.
17:17 They come out and blow out a team that did quit in the Chargers and then beat the team
17:22 that's been the class of the division for the last eight years, almost a decade.
17:28 And I think that proves a lot.
17:31 I said this for weeks now on this.
17:35 You know Mark Davis, and you know him personally, so you know him way better than I do, but
17:41 the Davises, the Raiders, they would love to have a marquee name as their head coach
17:46 and love to have that kind of brand power.
17:50 But if you don't have that, if you don't have a guy that you think is a can't-miss type
17:57 hire, and there aren't many out there, let's be honest, I would stick with Antonio Pierce.
18:05 I think he's earned the right to be this permanent head coach and give a chance to run the program
18:11 the way he wants to.
18:13 Obviously you have to sit down with him, I'm sure they are already, and see what his plan
18:17 would be in the offseason, how he would want to build his staff, what he thinks the Raiders
18:22 need to take the next step and get back to being a playoff team.
18:28 But I think just from the outside looking in, I think he's done enough to deserve the
18:34 head coach position permanently for 2024.
18:37 I agree.
18:38 Tom Brady goes out, I mean, excuse me, Jim Harbaugh goes out, hires Don Yee, Tom Brady's
18:43 agent, obvious connections to the Raiders.
18:46 I mean, allegedly the Wolverines have a $125 million ten-year deal on the table for him.
18:53 So this would be Mark Davis paying big money again, and I don't care what anyone says,
18:57 he's going to be the general manager and coach if he were to get it.
18:59 I think that's a concern.
19:01 But let's also be very honest, Jim Harbaugh's a great coach.
19:05 So I mean, and I think it's a three-man race.
19:11 I think Antonio Pierce is in first place right now, but by a hair with Tom Brady and John
19:18 Gruden, I don't think anyone else has a shot at this job.
19:21 And I think it's going to be fascinating to watch.
19:22 You mean Jim Harbaugh, or did you mean John Gruden, the third name?
19:27 No, no, I'm sorry.
19:31 Antonio Pierce, Jim Harbaugh, John Gruden.
19:35 That's the order that it goes in.
19:37 I think John Gruden is third, but I know Mark Davis loves him.
19:43 It's going to be fascinating to watch.
19:45 All right, what's your prediction for Sunday?
19:47 I mean, this is two teams that have played better as the year went on.
19:54 First of all, let me just say, I can't believe that it's week 18 already, because it feels
20:00 like just yesterday we were previewing week one between the Raiders and the Broncos.
20:06 We both predicted a win in week one.
20:07 They won that game.
20:08 I think they win on Sunday.
20:11 Both teams are eliminated from the playoffs playing for pride.
20:14 I think the Raiders come home and get a W. I have a 22-17 final, which I think I've kind
20:21 of been predicting a little bit recently.
20:23 It's kind of in the score range that I'm expecting.
20:27 I think that the Raiders are going to end up finishing pretty much in the middle of
20:33 where we both expect.
20:34 I think I predicted seven wins going in.
20:36 You said nine.
20:37 If they win Sunday, they're at eight.
20:38 So we're kind of in the right range of what we expect the team to be.
20:42 We both said before the season they didn't need to make the playoffs, but they needed
20:47 to show improvement from 2022, and I think they have.
20:50 All right, we've got a lot to talk about next week.
20:53 Can't wait to see you next week.
20:55 That is the great Matt Holadek from thespun.com.
20:57 Remember, you can follow me on Instagram.
21:00 By the way, I used to call it Instagrams.
21:02 Then I was told there's no S. Thanks for telling me, Matt, if you knew.
21:06 I was told there's no S. Now I'm told it's Insta, so it's Instagram.
21:11 HondoSR or on Twitter @HondoCarpenter.
21:13 We'll see you all again next week.
21:15 Remember you're watching Sports Illustrated's Fan Nation Las Vegas Raiders Insider Podcast,
21:19 part of the Fans First Sports Network.
21:21 That's Matt Holadek from thespun.com.