Las Vegas Raiders Insider Podcast on the Future of the Silver and Black, Biggest Needs. A Look at the NFL Draft
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00:00 Hi everybody, this is Hondo Carpenter from Sports Illustrated's Fan Nation, Las Vegas
00:06 Raiders Insider Podcast.
00:08 Your Las Vegas Raiders beat writer.
00:10 This guy next to me needs no introduction.
00:12 You know him.
00:13 He's a terrific beat writer along with me.
00:15 Does a great job helping us cover the Raiders.
00:18 And he joins me each and every week.
00:20 We are taping this.
00:21 Now I'm up here, and by the way, Zeke, I apologize to everyone.
00:25 Yesterday's people were like, "Did you eat Cheetos?"
00:28 My lips were orange because I got frostbit on my lips.
00:31 It was 23 below zero.
00:36 And I was out there with about 33 or 34 inches of snow on the ground, not counting the blowing
00:44 snow.
00:45 There were drifts that were taller than me.
00:49 And when you're out in that for hours, my lips got frostbit.
00:55 So I had to put this medicine on them that made them look orange.
00:58 And people were like, "What are you doing eating Cheetos?"
01:00 No, no Cheetos, I promise.
01:02 But I wish you were up here with me, Zeke.
01:03 You'd have had a good time.
01:04 Yeah, it sounds like you're having a great time up there in the elements.
01:08 I'll tell you what, I'm living on about an hour and 30 minutes of sleep a night because
01:13 I got to work and do other things, but it's still, it's a blast.
01:17 Wish you were here, bud.
01:18 All right, let's get right into this.
01:21 We're taping this on Wednesday morning.
01:23 Max Crosby has surgery later today, so depending on when you're watching, if you watch it in
01:28 the morning, make sure you say a prayer for him.
01:29 He's going to get his thumb repaired, going to get his knee repaired.
01:33 That guy was just a warrior.
01:35 No announcement at this point when we're taping this early Wednesday morning has been made,
01:41 but I've not wavered from the very beginning.
01:44 I've said on this show, I expect AP and Champ Kelly to get the job.
01:50 I tweeted out this morning that the Raiders have met every element of the Rooney rule
01:59 and they can do whatever they want, whenever they want now.
02:02 We're going to do this podcast moving forward, meaning, all right, we believe they're getting
02:08 the job, believe that that is the sentiment, so we're going to move the franchise forward
02:13 now and get it off a high center, which I don't understand what the delay is, but it's
02:17 not my team and Mark doesn't care what I think or you or the fan.
02:21 Let's get it off center, high center and start looking toward the future.
02:25 So Zeke, for you, I think it's going to be a brilliant move to go with AP, to go with
02:35 Champ, to allow there to be stability, but I want to ask you about something I said the
02:41 other day.
02:45 Max is no dummy.
02:48 He's very intelligent and I know a lot of people see the tats and the messing around
02:53 Max and anybody that thinks that guy is stupid is a fool themselves.
03:00 He's extremely smart.
03:02 He knew what he was doing and he knows now, I own AP and Champ and I don't mean he owns
03:09 them as if they've got to do everything he says.
03:12 He owns that decision and if it works, he's going to get a lot of credit and if it doesn't,
03:18 he's going to get a lot of blame, but that's what leaders do.
03:21 Your thoughts?
03:22 100%.
03:23 You know, when we spoke last week and we did our podcast last week, it was a, I want to
03:28 say the day or so before the whole Max and the trade thing came out.
03:33 And you know, if again, if you were paying attention to what Max had been saying really
03:36 all season, but more specifically that last interview that he did the last week of the
03:40 season, you can hear it bubbling over.
03:42 You can hear it.
03:43 And I think what happened was, I think that the longer that the decision has taken, the
03:48 more Max is kind of looking around like, okay, my words are not being heard.
03:52 I'm not being heard clearly enough.
03:54 And I think like you said, as a leader of the team, he started to think, okay, well
03:58 what can I do right to make my voice be even more heard?
04:01 My playing on the field for AP is not doing anything.
04:04 Me doing these interviews every week is not really doing, isn't moving a needle.
04:08 And that's when he took it a step further.
04:10 I, again, I support, you know, what Max did.
04:12 I think it's smart on his behalf to use the leverage that he's built by playing well on
04:16 the field after all these years for the Raiders.
04:19 You know, if you look at it from a lot of different angles, it makes sense.
04:21 And I have no problem with it.
04:23 That's what you have to do.
04:24 Sometimes, sometimes you have to take the decision out of somebody else's hands that
04:28 might make the wrong decision and kind of help them make it for them.
04:32 So that's what Max did.
04:33 But more than anything, he's earned that right to do that, right?
04:36 He's earned the right to make that call, just like AP and Champ have earned the right for
04:41 the opportunity for these positions.
04:42 So completely support what Max did.
04:44 He's a very smart man.
04:46 And I don't see why, you know, why he wouldn't have done that.
04:48 I think it was a good idea.
04:51 Let's talk about the impact of AP because there are a lot of free agents that want to
04:57 play for him.
04:59 And there are a lot of really good coaches that want to coach for him.
05:04 I think a lot of people, and you're younger, so I would love your perspective on this.
05:10 With age comes more time to reflect upon.
05:17 So for example, when I hear people say, you know, AP doesn't have the experience.
05:22 Okay.
05:24 Maybe I think that's a fair argument.
05:27 But those of us are older, remember a guy named John Madden, Tom Flores, Art Schell.
05:32 For you young guys, Dan Campbell, D'Amico Ryan.
05:36 I don't think because he doesn't have years of experience precludes him.
05:42 I think it can also be refreshing that, hey, this guy's not going to do it the way it's
05:47 always been done.
05:48 Let's be very frank.
05:51 Since the John Madden's, the Art Schell's and the Tom Flores's, the Raiders haven't
05:56 been great.
05:58 And maybe doing it the old way isn't the right way.
06:01 Your thoughts on that as a young guy?
06:04 I would say just, you know, look at this past season, right?
06:08 You know, the first eight games of the season, you had a coach that did things a certain
06:13 kind of way.
06:14 Even had a name for the way that they did things.
06:15 That's how much of a, you know, how in line that French or that coaching staff was.
06:21 And this team did not respond to doing things the way it's always been done.
06:25 It simply didn't get wins on the field.
06:28 And you saw what happened when AP came in and just completely went the opposite direction
06:32 in terms of we're going to do things the way that fits this team.
06:36 And you know, on top of the fact that there's already, like you mentioned, other coaches,
06:39 other instances, both many years ago and this season alone, where coaches didn't have that
06:43 much experience and took their teams to the playoffs.
06:46 The proof is in the pudding.
06:48 And then on top of that, AP has shown you in those last eight, nine, 10 games of the
06:51 season, what can happen when you change things around, when you're flexible as a coaching
06:55 staff, when you listen to your players and take into consideration what they're thinking.
06:59 He's already shown what that can do.
07:00 Now, give them an off season, give them the NFL draft, give them the time to go get those
07:04 free agents that want to play under a refreshing coach like AP, a players coach like AP, and
07:09 let's see what he can do.
07:10 So there's proof all the way around that they're on the right track with AP.
07:15 They just have to give them a chance.
07:17 I agree with you 100%, Zeke.
07:18 All right, I want to stay on that same vein because the point of the matter is the head
07:25 coach's job is to set the GPS.
07:30 It's to say, here is where I want to go.
07:33 I want to do a run heavy physical offense that attacks down the field, or I want to
07:41 do a spread West Coast, whatever.
07:44 I think AP is more of the first, but that's another story.
07:47 I want my defense to kind of be physical, yada, yada, yada, with press coverage, whatever.
07:52 Then you go hire the guys who are experts in that and then let them do their thing.
07:59 You sit in on the meetings.
08:00 He sat in on the offensive line more than anything.
08:03 You sit in on those meetings.
08:05 You're part of those meetings, but you let those guys do, and you lead men.
08:10 I understand.
08:11 I always laugh.
08:14 Every argument is framed by the person's POV, point of view.
08:19 I always laugh.
08:22 I'll give you an example.
08:24 I made a comment the other day about, isn't it ridiculous that every time a minority is
08:32 interviewed, everybody calls it a Rooney Rule interview.
08:37 It's disrespectful to the coaches because there are some interviews that are in Rooney
08:42 Rule, but there are a lot of great coaches that when they get interviewed, it's because
08:46 they're great coaches.
08:48 I had someone send me an email that said, "You only say that now because you have adopted
08:53 a child of color."
08:54 No, it has nothing to do with adopting a child of color.
08:57 It has to do with, I think it's disrespectful when people say, "Well, this person's just
09:03 getting an interview because of the color of their skin."
09:06 There's a lot of great coaches.
09:07 "Oh, Patrick Graham's never going to get a head coach.
09:12 His interviews are only because of his color."
09:14 It's just stupid.
09:16 Everything is framed by point of view.
09:18 If you don't like AP or want him for the job, I don't think it's don't like him, but people
09:23 don't, "Oh, he doesn't have enough experience."
09:25 Okay, that's fair.
09:27 Or if you want him, "Oh, he's got enough experience because he's going to go hire the guys."
09:31 The point of the matter is, for me at least, AP was the only real option for this team
09:40 because of how they responded to him, because of how they embraced him.
09:46 My embracing of AP wasn't a disdain for Harbaugh.
09:51 I like him.
09:52 I think he's a great coach.
09:53 It was just saying, "In this circumstance, it's AP."
09:57 Your thoughts on how POV affects argument?
10:00 Oh, yeah, and that's life, right?
10:04 Even outside of the sports, right?
10:05 However you view things, that's going to help frame your opinion, right?
10:09 However right or wrong it is.
10:10 With AP, though, I think he's proven that he has the ability to, A, lead men, and more
10:16 than anything else in terms of the experience, as little experience as he may have as a head
10:21 coach, he knows what he doesn't know.
10:23 I think that goes a long way for AP.
10:25 He knows, "Hey, okay, I need help.
10:26 Let me go call Tom Coughlin.
10:27 Let me go call other coaches who have had the experience, and Marvin Lewis.
10:31 Let me lean on those guys."
10:32 He also, again, like you said, he got those coordinators that can help him there as well.
10:38 One of the main factors of a leader, and I learned this a long time ago, is not necessarily
10:41 to do, but to delegate.
10:43 I think that's where AP is doing a great job on top of being able to lead the men in the
10:48 locker room.
10:49 In terms of point of view, it definitely depends on how you look at it, but I think no matter
10:52 how you look at it, if you focus on this team, where they are, the players, this locker room,
10:57 and where they've been, I think AP, like you said, is the main choice, and that's why players
11:02 like Max were so vocal.
11:05 He's the main choice.
11:06 He's not the only choice, but he's the main choice that fits this locker room.
11:09 I think if you just took 32 NFL teams, random rosters, and said, "Hey, AP or Harbaugh,"
11:14 you're probably going to go Harbaugh.
11:15 But if you say this specific team right now in Las Vegas, the Raiders, it's AP, 100%.
11:21 You know, can I tell a story about you?
11:24 Do you mind?
11:25 Yes, sir.
11:26 Okay.
11:27 So, you know, when I first hired you, there were several people that commented, "Hey,
11:35 Zeke's a great young black journalist."
11:39 And you had to call me off the ledge because I was mad, and I said to you, "Zeke, don't
11:43 let people do that.
11:44 You're a great journalist, period."
11:47 I didn't hire you because of your color.
11:49 I hired you because you're tremendous.
11:51 You are such a blessing to our coverage of the Raiders.
11:55 You are such a great member of this team.
11:57 You are such a great journalist, Zeke.
11:59 And I said that, and you're like, "Hey, relax."
12:01 No, I'm not going to relax.
12:02 I'm mad.
12:03 It's disrespecting you.
12:05 And I just, I think people's POV, sometimes you got to check it.
12:10 You know, I think AP's great.
12:12 I don't want AP because he's black.
12:14 I could care less what color AP is.
12:16 I want AP to have it because he's, because I think he is the best one.
12:20 Same with you.
12:21 You're a great journalist, and I'm proud you're part of my team.
12:24 I appreciate it.
12:26 And thank you for talking me off the ledge because I was going to say some things publicly,
12:30 and you're like, "No."
12:31 Yeah.
12:32 I know, but reading social media, did you not tell me that?
12:35 Yes, sir.
12:36 You know I did.
12:37 Thanks.
12:38 You've been good for me, Zeke.
12:39 But you know, I'm a 52-year-old man that's had a lot of success, and Rick Gosling, considered
12:46 by many the greatest NFL writer of all time, is my mentor and my friend, and still every
12:52 Deep Dive article I do, every big article I do, I always send it to him.
12:56 "Hey, read this.
12:57 What do you think?
12:58 Give me your feedback."
12:59 We all need that.
13:00 To me, one of the biggest selling points on AP for me, and you know when he got it, I
13:07 hoped he would get it, but I was not on the, "He's the only option" train.
13:13 But when he started calling Marvin Lewis, Tom Coughlin, and he started going out saying,
13:19 "Listen, I'm not weak to go get the best people in the world to help me."
13:23 To me, he just earned a ton of respect.
13:25 All right, let's talk about Aiden O'Connell.
13:29 That young man had a terrific rookie year, and he had the second highest-rated rookie
13:35 quarterback.
13:38 I think it was his last four games, eight touchdowns, no interceptions.
13:43 Last five games, I think it was nine touchdowns, one interception.
13:47 He did exactly what they asked him to do.
13:50 There were times that people wanted him and Bo Hardegre to take shots down the field,
13:55 and AP was like, "No.
13:57 They're not going to score on our defense.
13:59 We're going to be fine.
14:02 Don't take the risks.
14:04 Don't cost us the game, and we're going to ask you to just play within yourself."
14:09 I know there was a lot of frustration with Bo.
14:13 I know there was a lot of frustration with Aiden.
14:17 But if you step back away from it, I don't think you can say anything else than he had
14:21 a terrific rookie season.
14:24 I don't think he has shown us enough to call him the next Ken Stabler, but I don't think
14:28 he's shown enough to say he's not.
14:31 I think the Raiders need to go pick a quarterback, because you want competition.
14:36 I'd like to see him get a quarterback with a little bit more mobility.
14:40 But at the same time, I'm hearing from a lot of people, and we're going to have more about
14:45 this in a few weeks, that this class is getting lauded for a lot of first-round quarterbacks.
14:54 There's a lot of teams that have one, maybe two players with a first-round grade, but
14:59 not three or four.
15:01 I think the Raiders need to be smart, use their picks smartly.
15:05 Don't go get a guy just to make your fans happy.
15:07 I think you need to pick one, but make sure it's the one at the right place.
15:11 You've got other needs.
15:12 This team's close.
15:14 So if you can pick a guy at 13 and not have to trade up and get rid of picks, who's going
15:19 to immediately plug and play and get a quarterback later, I'm not against it.
15:22 Hey, if they decide they want to go up and get those one or two guys, I'm all for that
15:26 too.
15:27 I trust them, whatever they want to do.
15:28 Your thoughts on Aiden and the quarterback situation?
15:31 Well, I'll say specifically with Aiden, I think he did a pretty good job this year,
15:35 all things considered.
15:36 Kind of being thrown to the fire, new head coach, new OC, right off the top.
15:41 Most rookie quarterbacks, even if they were drafted higher than Aiden, would have faltered
15:45 and may not have played as well as he did underneath those circumstances.
15:48 So I think all things considered, you have to A, bring him back.
15:52 He should be competing for the starting job next year.
15:55 But I think the thing with Aiden is perception.
15:58 He gets it done, but it just doesn't look good.
16:03 It's not lighting up the scoreboard, if you will.
16:05 I think in this day and age, that's what everybody wants to see.
16:07 They want to see the quarterback throwing the ball 70 yards down the field, touchdowns
16:11 left and right.
16:12 But you got to remember, again, think about this team specifically.
16:15 Had Aiden been the starting quarterback the first eight games of the season, that probably
16:18 would have turned out an extra win or two.
16:21 And guess what?
16:22 They would have been in the playoffs.
16:23 They would have had Aiden doing the exact same thing he did the last half of the season.
16:27 He didn't have to do any more than that.
16:28 Had he been playing earlier, they would have gone to the playoffs, in my opinion.
16:32 So I think with Aiden, again, it doesn't look like the best quarterback of all time, but
16:37 he gets the job done, right?
16:38 The number speaks for themselves.
16:40 And this team, at least this past season, that's all they needed was a quote unquote
16:45 game manager.
16:46 They didn't need somebody to light the scoreboard up.
16:47 So I think Aiden has shown he has the potential to be a starter in this league.
16:52 He has shown value specifically to the Raiders moving forward.
16:56 So in terms of the draft, again, I think that they should stay at Stamppad at 13.
17:00 Obviously, like you said, you trust whoever the next GM is going to be is going to take
17:05 care of that.
17:06 But I don't think that they need to go trade picks just to swing big on a pick and potentially
17:11 miss there too, because that would set them back just as far, if not further, than not
17:16 hiring AP, if you ask me.
17:17 So I think Aiden has earned the right to compete for the starting job next year.
17:21 I think, like you said, use the picks wisely.
17:24 And guess what?
17:25 They'll be right back in the running for a playoff spot next year.
17:27 So they're not that far off.
17:28 >> I agree with you.
17:30 You and I are in there.
17:32 AP loves Aiden, doesn't he?
17:34 I mean, he doesn't hide it.
17:36 >> 100%.
17:37 He goes to bat for Aiden no matter what.
17:40 There's times this season where he went to bat for Aiden and he wasn't even prompted
17:44 to go to bat for Aiden.
17:45 Nobody asked him a question.
17:46 He still was like, hold on, let me go hype Aiden up a little bit.
17:49 So yes, AP stands by Aiden.
17:51 I think, I don't wanna say he sees a little bit of himself in Aiden, but I think he sees
17:55 Aiden in a little bit of a similar situation as AP was, kind of being thrown in the fire
18:00 short notice and having to perform with all of Raider Nation and really the entire NFL
18:04 looking at you.
18:06 I think he sees a little bit of Aiden in himself there.
18:10 >> We've talked about this previously, that if AP and Champ are back, I think it's a better
18:14 chance for Josh Jacobs to return.
18:17 I think Josh would take less money to come back and play for this team if they were in
18:22 the leadership.
18:23 And again, this podcast today, we're taping it when no announcement's been made, but we
18:28 are expecting AP and Champ to be named.
18:32 So we're moving off a high center, talking about the future.
18:36 We've talked about Hunter Redfield, but I wanna ask you about this roster, because this
18:43 team has embraced AP and Champ.
18:49 And there was something that I don't think you and I have discussed.
18:53 I'm visiting with Adam Butler in the locker room.
18:56 Now this is a guy who's friends with Josh McDaniels and Dave Ziegler, legitimate friends.
19:04 They brought him in here cuz they believed in him.
19:07 What a great job they did bringing him in too.
19:11 And he said to me, I mean, it blew me out of the water.
19:16 I would have liked to have seen what they could have done if AP had gotten the job earlier.
19:22 Now this is a guy who's friends with them, but he's just being honest.
19:25 The team responded to AP.
19:28 I know you're younger than me, but you still have been around.
19:33 Have you ever seen a locker room at any level coalesce around a coach like they did for
19:42 AP?
19:43 >> No, and I've never seen it happen as quickly as they did for AP.
19:49 And I think the beauty of how it happened for them is that they also hit a patch of
19:54 adversity shortly after, right?
19:55 It wasn't all roses.
19:57 They won those first two games after AP became head coach, and then I think they lost, what,
20:01 two or three of the next four, I believe, if I'm not mistaken.
20:04 And then there were some tough losses in there, and they bounced back.
20:07 And I think that speaks to, again, AP, whether they were up or down, they were still ready
20:12 to go and run through a wall for AP as a coach.
20:14 So to answer your question quickly, no, sir, I haven't.
20:18 And I'll be honest with you, I've said it before.
20:20 That first week of practice after AP was installed, I was kinda curious.
20:25 I was like, is this real?
20:27 Are the guys serious?
20:29 There was a little bit of apprehension, if you will, on my part.
20:31 I was like, okay, let's see where this goes.
20:33 And then they played the Giants, they won that game.
20:35 I think the Jets game was right after that, and they won that game.
20:37 And it was like, okay, well, let's see what happens when they play the Dolphins, etc.
20:40 And again, they hit that patch, and they kept on ticking.
20:43 It says a lot about AP.
20:44 It says a lot about the team's faith in AP, and just how far these guys can go moving
20:50 forward.
20:51 All right, so I wanna tell you something interesting.
20:54 I know that you know this, but I don't think the fans do.
20:58 I was talking earlier this week, I was talking to one of the Raider players about something.
21:03 And we were talking about AP, and he asked me what I thought.
21:07 I said, I think he's gonna get the job.
21:11 And I said to him, I said, I'm not gonna report, and he wouldn't mind me telling this, I'm
21:16 not saying who it was.
21:17 I said, I'm not gonna report you, I'm not interviewing you.
21:20 I'm just curious, what made you believe in AP?
21:24 You're not a linebacker.
21:27 And he said, told me this.
21:30 He said, AP was going around all the guys, talking to them, building relationships with
21:39 them, before he ever had the job.
21:42 And it wasn't because he was trying to get the job.
21:46 That's just his nature.
21:47 He loves the locker room, he loves the players.
21:50 And he goes, so when AP then gets the job, everyone knew him, everyone liked him, he
21:59 already had relationships with everybody, 'cause he cared about everybody before he
22:03 had the job.
22:05 Now that reminds me of when Max told you and I about AP would come up and dap him up before
22:11 games or at practice and talk to him, and AP wasn't even the defensive line coach.
22:17 It really kind of let me behind the window, something I haven't said a lot of.
22:24 But I think one of the reasons this team coalesced behind him is not because of his epistemology,
22:34 but because of his personality, because of the fact, there's the old adage, people don't
22:40 care how much you know till they know how much you care.
22:43 He cared about them when he had nothing to gain, so that when he had something to gain,
22:48 they already knew it was genuine.
22:49 I'd love your thoughts on that.
22:51 - 100%, I think the fact that AP was able to connect and is able to connect with the
22:56 guys on just a human level, football or having to do with football or not having to do with
23:01 football goes a long way.
23:04 And then again, fortunately or unfortunately, you get compared to the guy before you, right?
23:09 That's just football, that's just life.
23:11 And I think what happens is not only is AP able to connect with people, but they're comparing
23:15 it to the coaching staff of old where that wasn't necessarily the case.
23:19 And I think that's what made it so refreshing for a lot of these players that sometimes
23:23 you don't know how good you have it until you don't have it so good, if you will.
23:26 So I think AP was able to show himself as a very real, a very genuine down to earth
23:32 person.
23:33 But what I also think with AP is that, and they've said this many times, is that AP didn't
23:38 sugar coat anything, whether you played well or whether you didn't play well, he was very
23:42 honest with them.
23:43 And I think that goes a long way with grown men, right?
23:45 If I don't do well, don't tell me I'm doing well if I'm not, right?
23:49 If I am doing well, let me know I'm doing well.
23:51 I think it goes a long way for players, for men, when you say, "Hey, thank you for being
23:58 real with me.
23:59 Thank you for being honest with me and show me where I can get better."
24:01 And then I think you add that plus the fact that AP has those years of playing in the
24:05 NFL, it's just the perfect mix for a great coaching job here with the Raiders.
24:09 Well, Zeke is your boss.
24:11 Let me tell you, you're doing well.
24:12 I'm really proud of you.
24:13 I think you're doing great.
24:14 All right.
24:15 I want to go in a different direction.
24:21 We're doing this podcast before any announcement, but we believe 100% that AP and Champ are
24:26 going to get their jobs.
24:27 But I want to say Mark Davis calls Zeke Trezevant.
24:31 "You're going to tell me where I'm going to pick at 13.
24:36 What do you think is the biggest need on this team?"
24:39 Oh, man.
24:41 So this is tricky.
24:44 So I don't necessarily think they have one overall pressing need.
24:48 And I never thought I'd say this, but I think they might want to consider going offensive
24:53 line.
24:54 And this is just my thoughts.
24:55 I think they might want to consider going offensive line and/or if they find themselves
25:00 a another linebacker that they find that is worth that high of a draft pick, you might
25:05 want to.
25:06 I mean, can you imagine adding a stud linebacker with Spillane and Diablo and then add a third
25:11 stud LB in there?
25:12 Like, oh, like that would be.
25:13 And then again, with Masterson as well, right?
25:17 Like you throw in a fourth stud, you know, I'm losing my words because that would just
25:23 take the defense to a whole nother level.
25:24 But I think if they for the 13th pick, they need to focus on the offensive side of the
25:28 ball.
25:29 And I think the defense is, I don't want to say pretty well taken care of, but I think
25:32 they're pretty good in terms of the defensive side of the ball.
25:34 So I would say, let's look at offensive line, see where they can go there and then kind
25:38 of build off of that.
25:41 You know, one of the things that I don't think that people are giving AP and Champ enough
25:48 credit for is there's going to be some really good free agents that you're going to be able
25:56 to pluck and put there.
25:59 So I think the draft is going to look extremely, I think when you and I are talking about the
26:05 draft a week before, we are going to be talking about, I think a whole different than how
26:12 it looks today.
26:14 So let me throw this one out there.
26:16 I think we had a great article this week.
26:19 I think it was written by Braden Reedy, but one of our writers wrote an article about
26:25 the offensive line for the Raiders finished 10th in the NFL.
26:29 10th.
26:30 And yet everybody, oh, the Raiders offensive line, 10th.
26:36 I mean, it's not like it's a good, I mean, certainly you can upgrade it, but it's not
26:41 like it's full of glaring holes, was there?
26:43 Oh yeah, no, not at all.
26:46 And they're actually relatively deep along the offensive line.
26:49 Again, assuming Illumina returns next season.
26:53 You know, they are pretty covered at offensive line, but again, let's say a Colton Miller
26:57 goes down with an injury or, and you got to think they also had a lot of, I would say
27:02 luck.
27:03 I don't want to say luck, but they were kind of lucky in terms of not having a whole lot
27:06 of injuries along the offensive line this year.
27:08 The chances of repeating that two years in a row are relatively slim.
27:11 So, but yes, are they covered for the most part along the offensive line?
27:15 Yes.
27:16 But that's one of those positions or one of those units that you can always add to.
27:20 When I sat down with my exclusive with Champ Kelly a couple of weeks ago, and I asked him
27:25 how he looked at building the team and he talked about the lines.
27:29 I think to purists, to people who love the, I mean, the physicality of this game that
27:38 we call football, I think that's like throwing red meat to a hound dog or asking an evangelical
27:45 choir for a big amen.
27:46 What do you think?
27:47 Yeah, I completely agree with you.
27:49 I completely agree with you.
27:50 It would definitely go a long way for sure.
27:53 I mean, that is because that's where the game is made.
27:57 I mean, listen, you love the Tyreek Hills, the Devontae Adams.
28:03 You love the Choppers.
28:05 You love the Michael.
28:08 You love the skill guys.
28:12 Oh no, it's the big uglies that make the world turn around.
28:18 Come on, Nelsey.
28:19 You know, I know that you're 160 pound former defensive end, but you know, come on, I ain't
28:26 lying.
28:27 Hey, I was going to say, you know how I feel about the trenches, man.
28:32 You know, that's very near and dear to my heart.
28:34 Listen, football always will be about the trenches.
28:36 It doesn't matter how much they change the game.
28:39 It does not matter if your offensive and defensive lines are not good, you are not going to win
28:43 in the National Football League.
28:44 Does not matter.
28:45 And that's really on any level of football, but especially in the National Football League.
28:48 So yes, the line is where it's always going to be about what's most important in football.
28:53 And you got to take care of those first.
28:56 We do.
28:57 And I'll tell you, I'm excited to look at where they upgrade.
29:03 I know a couple of the free agents that are interested in coming and it's going to be
29:07 interesting for me.
29:09 And this is something that I don't think gets enough discussion.
29:15 When you're Champ Kelly and Antonio Pearson, these players love you and you love them.
29:20 So I'm not going to use any names, but let's say you have a guy at a position that you
29:25 gray out as a 76.
29:27 Okay.
29:28 Now let me explain to a lot of people.
29:30 A lot of NFL teams have a grading system one to a hundred and players in the nineties,
29:37 which would be a Max Crosby, which a lot of teams have him at a 98.
29:40 In fact, I don't know of anybody in the NFL that has anybody at a hundred.
29:48 I don't, I may know of one that's a 99 one, but I'm not even sure about that.
29:53 And I do know of almost every team I have connection to has Max at a 98 and one, I think
29:59 has them at a 99.
30:01 Him and TJ Watt and I think Tyreek Hill for non-quarterbacks.
30:09 But not a hundred percent sure they have him at 99.
30:12 It's just what I know about in the past.
30:16 But you're looking at a player who voiced, I'm not talking about Max now, but say you
30:21 got a player who's a 76, 78, 79.
30:23 That's a good, good score.
30:26 And they were vocal that they wanted you to get the job, but now you got a chance to bring
30:33 in an 80.
30:37 You got a chance to bring in a guy that's better than them.
30:41 Now you got to make the tough decision, man.
30:43 I'm so glad you wanted me and I wanted to coach you, but it's about the team and I got
30:48 to upgrade.
30:50 I think AP and Champ would have no issue doing that.
30:55 It's about winning.
30:56 It's about the team.
30:57 But those are dynamics that I don't think people always think about.
31:00 Man, when players come out in big support, that makes tough decisions down the road for
31:05 leadership, doesn't it?
31:06 It definitely makes it tough, but I would say AP is, he's the guy that would be able
31:11 to smooth that over the best out of any coach.
31:14 And I'll point out the opposite end of that spectrum.
31:17 And that was when Marcus Peters, when he had to kind of take Marcus Peters to the side,
31:21 right?
31:22 Marcus Peters was definitely in AP's corner, but Marcus Peters wasn't doing what was best
31:25 for the team.
31:26 So AP had to make a decision that was best for the team.
31:29 So I think it shows that, hey, whether the player likes that decision or not, or AP is
31:34 going to be able to smooth that over.
31:36 And everything that they have been pushing for since AP became the coach was for the
31:40 betterment of the team, not for the head coach or for this player, for that player, or this
31:45 coach had that connection with a player from years ago.
31:47 No, they wanted this team to get better.
31:49 So if that means bringing in another player that might be above a person that was vouching
31:53 for AP, I think most of the players in that locker room would probably be okay with it,
31:57 especially if it translates to wins for those players.
32:01 All about winning, isn't it?
32:02 Yes, sir.
32:03 100%.
32:04 All right.
32:05 I'm going to read to you.
32:06 I think you and I are going to start a new segment when you're on the show, Wacky Email
32:09 of the Week.
32:10 Okay?
32:11 Oh, let's go.
32:12 Let's go.
32:13 You ready to lab-zeek?
32:14 Let's get it.
32:17 Hondo, my brother-in-law works at the Bellagio.
32:24 I just thought you'd want to know.
32:29 York Davis was having dinner last night with Bill Belichick.
32:34 I believe Bill Belichick is going to be named the next coach of the Las Vegas Raiders.
32:40 I just thought you'd love the scoop.
32:42 Love you, love the podcast, love all the articles.
32:46 In case you're wondering, my name's at the bottom so you'll know who I am.
32:51 This is legitimate.
32:52 And this is even my brother-in-law's name who works at the Bellagio.
32:55 Please don't use our names, but I wanted you to know.
32:58 I thought you'd find this very helpful.
33:01 Now, I told him I was going to do this, and so I'm not using his name because I appreciate
33:08 the fact he was trying to give us good information.
33:14 York Davis was not at the Bellagio with Bill Belichick.
33:20 Bill Belichick is not going to be the coach of the Raiders.
33:26 I get a lot of these zik.
33:30 Your thought, if Mark Davis tried to bring Bill Belichick in here with Josh McDaniels
33:36 as his offensive coordinator.
33:37 So I was already kind of laughing with the whole Bill thing because we've discussed that
33:44 before, but that and Josh McDaniels being the O-stack.
33:48 Like, what do you say to that?
33:53 That would be, again, Bill is one thing, but Bill and Josh returning, that would be, I
33:59 can't even have the words for how bad that would be for the team, for Raider Nation.
34:04 That would be something, that would be a sight to behold, to say the least.
34:09 I don't have the words on though.
34:11 And I told this gentleman, I said, listen, we're not laughing at you.
34:14 We appreciate you bringing us good information.
34:16 I'm laughing at the visual.
34:18 Right.
34:19 And if he would not have put his name on that or whatever, I would have thought, all right,
34:24 just somebody trying to dupe us.
34:27 But he put his name on it, his brother-in-law's name.
34:29 And I mean, he was sincerely passing along information he thought was correct.
34:33 And listen, they could have, you know, they could have very well have been having dinner
34:39 or having, who knows, that could have very well, but that doesn't lead to, you know,
34:43 two plus two is not, that doesn't add up right now.
34:46 So yeah, they could have very well been, again, talking about owners, coaches, it could very
34:51 well have happened, but I don't think it's going to lead to Bill becoming the head coach.
34:55 No, sir.
34:56 I'm telling you, they were not at the Bellagio having dinner and Bill was not in town.
35:04 For sure.
35:06 I hear you.
35:11 Peace.
35:12 Oh, and again, this guy was great.
35:18 And after I actually said, can you send me your number?
35:20 And I called him and I said, can I use this on a new segment?
35:24 And he goes, sure.
35:25 My heart was, I said, I'm not laughing at you.
35:27 I said, but it just goes to tell you how every rumor, I'll tell you a story.
35:35 I won't tell you the coach, but I was sitting in my boat fishing with a coach once in my
35:44 actual boat fishing with a coach.
35:48 I get a phone call.
35:50 Hey, this coach just told me XYZ PDQ.
35:57 And the coach just said, XYZ PDQ.
36:00 I'm like, well, okay.
36:03 All right.
36:04 Thanks.
36:05 Hung up.
36:06 Now I had on speaker because I was fishing.
36:09 This coach looked at me and goes, have I not been with you since about four o'clock this
36:14 morning?
36:15 I said, yeah.
36:16 Huh?
36:17 Okay.
36:18 He goes, wow, your job is different, isn't it?
36:23 I mean, it's just, it's just fun.
36:24 Isn't it?
36:25 A hundred percent.
36:26 It's a different angle and a lot of different things like that.
36:28 And I can only imagine what that was like with that coach.
36:31 It was a lot of fun.
36:33 All right, Zeke.
36:34 So now I'm going to switch angles.
36:35 I asked you about the draft.
36:38 I'm going to ask you about the Raider roster.
36:44 Your champ, Kelly.
36:46 What is the, who's the biggest free agent on this team you want to resign?
36:52 There's several.
36:53 Who's the biggest?
36:55 So outside of Josh Jacobs, which I think speaks for itself, I would say for me, it would honestly
37:01 be a Luminor.
37:02 I think he, and this is just my opinion after like looking at the, the, the free agents,
37:07 I think he adds a certain level of versatility to the team that another player might not
37:12 be able to bring.
37:14 And that's, and that's on top of obviously being a great locker room guy, et cetera,
37:18 et cetera.
37:19 But I think the fact that he can play both sides, he's familiar with the offense.
37:21 I think you have to, I think they have to find a way to bring him back because if they
37:25 don't, it might lead to them having to go resign more than just one, or it might lead
37:30 to them having to sign more than one player to replace them.
37:32 It might take two players to replace a Luminor.
37:35 So in my opinion, it would definitely be a Luminor.
37:38 And I also think you got to, I think you should bring back Amik, obviously.
37:41 Amik is up there.
37:42 I think he should be back.
37:43 He's young.
37:44 He's got a bright future ahead of him and he fits well with his defense and he's got
37:48 another step to take.
37:49 So those would be my top two, a Luminor and Amik for sure.
37:52 All right.
37:53 I'm going to talk about Amik in a minute.
37:54 I want to, I want to run something else by it.
37:57 Cause I think it's important.
37:59 Jermaine Luminor takes a lot of heat from the fan base.
38:06 And when you understand, okay, he does get some penalties.
38:11 He doesn't run from that.
38:13 But when you're looking at a lot of times he's out there on an Island and the fact it's
38:19 still a top 10 rated defense, I think with his versatility, I agree.
38:24 I think you want to re-sign a Luminor.
38:25 Now I would still go get a potential big time dominant offensive tackle and you keep him
38:35 as your swing guy and you, you let him compete with a Luminor for the starting right tackle.
38:41 But I think agree.
38:42 And here's a name a lot of people aren't talking about and he's older.
38:46 And if you can get younger, of course you always want to in this league.
38:49 But I think his influence on this team was phenomenal.
38:52 Greg Van Roden.
38:53 This is a guy that, I mean, multiple weeks rated as one of the best guards in all the
38:57 national football league.
38:59 This is a guy that came in, I mean, on a top, on a top 10 offensive line, he was there.
39:05 He was healthy.
39:06 He helped Dylan Parham a lot.
39:08 He helped Andre James.
39:10 He helped everybody.
39:12 I think this is a guy being overlooked that, that, that people need to, again, this, this
39:17 is important to bring him back for some offensive line stability.
39:20 Agree or disagree?
39:21 Completely agree.
39:22 And, you know, I wrote an article recently about just how valuable he was to the team.
39:27 And I think, you know, it goes unsaid because he's playing, you know, the, one of those
39:31 positions that you don't get a lot of attention until you're messing up.
39:34 But, you know, he, he did a great job.
39:36 He was there for pretty much almost every snap this season.
39:38 It might've been a hundred percent or 99%, if I'm not mistaken.
39:41 He was there and he played very, very well.
39:44 And then again, not only did he play well, he played well on short notice, right?
39:49 They brought him in in terms of the off season, they brought him relatively late into the
39:51 off season and he fit in almost perfectly.
39:54 So yes, you know, with that in mind, I think he might be more important to bring back than
39:58 a Luminor.
39:59 So he would be one, a Luminor would probably be two in my opinion, and then a Meek would
40:02 be three.
40:03 But yes, Van Roten did a great job this season for sure.
40:06 Yeah, I think him and Jermaine are absolutely vital.
40:12 I still think you go out and pick an interior guy and I think you pick a tackle in this
40:20 draft for sure.
40:21 And unless you can get a really solid young one, then maybe that's a possibility.
40:27 All right.
40:28 I want to talk about the defensive backs.
40:31 Jack Jones, two more years.
40:34 Now get this one.
40:35 Are you ready for this one?
40:37 For the next two years, total, not per year, two million bucks.
40:45 I talked about it yesterday in my Q&A article.
40:47 I mean, this guy's playing like an All-Pro.
40:49 You got him for two million bucks for the next two years.
40:54 Unbelievable job by Champ and AP.
40:57 Nate Hobbs, I mean, that's a guy that is stud.
41:05 That's a guy that they're going to want to extend long-term as an interior.
41:09 You may remember last year before the season, I sat down with Chris Ash and talked about
41:17 you guys tried to make Nate Hobbs an outside corner.
41:20 Is it time to move him inside?
41:22 He didn't want any of that conversation with me.
41:25 I've been asked not to be so hard on Chris Ash so y'all can go watch the interview, make
41:34 your own opinion so I won't be hard on him.
41:38 But this year, they move him back in the inside where he's a natural.
41:42 He's a natural.
41:43 Then you look at guys like Corian Bennett, who I think did a lot of good.
41:50 He was a rookie.
41:51 He played like a rookie.
41:52 You look at Amik, and I'm leaving somebody out.
41:56 Amik, to Corian, Nate, and Jack, no, that's all four.
42:04 I've been asked, what about going to get a true shutdown corner?
42:08 If there's a Darrell Revis or a guy at 13 that's a can't miss, you take him.
42:14 But if there's not, I think you go back to the offensive line, maybe back to a defensive
42:22 tackle if there's a mauler there with a high.
42:25 But again, I think we saw it last year, and let's give Dave Ziegler and Champ Kelly credit
42:31 last year.
42:32 They selected at value.
42:35 They got guys at value.
42:37 I don't think this defensive backfield is anywhere near as anemic as a lot of other
42:41 people think.
42:43 I think they're very young, very talented, very good.
42:48 Your thoughts?
42:49 And on top of that, they play well together.
42:54 It's the sum of the parts.
42:55 You might not have a Darrell Revis or a Jaylen Ramsey, but guess what?
42:59 All together, those guys playing together, you can just see them getting better over
43:04 time.
43:05 I think that's what you got to add in terms of this specific defensive back group.
43:08 None of those guys are going to jump off the screen where they're just great or shut down.
43:14 Once you put them all together on the same team playing together, and then you put them
43:17 behind that defensive line, behind those linebackers, they don't need to be a household
43:22 name.
43:23 They do their job well, and they do their job admirably together.
43:26 And I think that goes a long way.
43:30 To the average fan, this may not mean anything, but you and I are there in the locker room
43:33 with them.
43:34 I think one of the things about them is they're tremendous people.
43:41 There isn't one of those four that I dislike.
43:44 I mean, they are all good guys.
43:48 They're all about the team.
43:49 They're all about each other.
43:51 They're funny.
43:52 They're all totally unique individuals.
43:53 They're not the same guy.
43:56 But I think that also says something too about character.
43:59 100%.
44:00 100%.
44:01 They're all good dudes.
44:02 They're all very, again, down to earth, willing to learn.
44:06 Whenever we've asked them questions, they've been very open and honest with us.
44:10 And again, just like they play well with each other, I think they feed off of each other's
44:13 personalities.
44:14 I think that's why you saw such a turnaround when Jack Jones came in.
44:18 And then next thing you know, that demeanor changed because they all started feeding off
44:22 of that.
44:23 Now, Amik is a little bit quieter of a dude.
44:25 So has Bennett.
44:26 Those guys are relatively quiet.
44:27 But when Jack Jones came in and changed things around, they all just fed off of that.
44:31 They all just grew off of that.
44:32 And it speaks to how much they like each other, how much they like being around each other
44:36 on and off the field.
44:37 They all work well together.
44:40 You know, I always tease Nate Hobbs about this.
44:43 He just dresses so cool.
44:45 Nate, listen, Nate had this, I think it was like a pink sweatshirt on after one of the
44:53 last two home games.
44:55 I was like, man, I wish I could pull that off, man.
44:58 Wish I could do that, but I'm not cool enough.
45:00 So yes, I completely agree.
45:02 Nate is a smooth dude.
45:03 I told Nate, I said, you understand as a 52 year old fat white guy, I could never look
45:09 that cool.
45:10 He goes, oh, God, I couldn't either.
45:14 I couldn't either.
45:15 And every it seems like every week he has a different, you know, pretty cool outfit
45:17 on at least one day of the week.
45:19 So yeah, he's pretty, he's pretty swaggy in his clothes.
45:23 I gotta tell you, the only thing cool about me are my Jordans.
45:26 Nothing else.
45:27 You got some kicks for sure.
45:29 Yeah, all right.
45:31 Now I want to get to something super important.
45:34 I promised everyone Hondo in a hoodie if they beat the Chiefs or the Dolphins, they did.
45:42 I then told them, because people in the organization have now have like three or four Raider hoodies
45:47 that people in the organization have given me.
45:49 In fact, one of them was going to give me one last time I was in the building and I'm
45:55 like, no, no, no, no, no, don't do that.
45:57 I don't want people thinking I'm asking you for swag or taking a gift.
46:01 So they mailed it to me.
46:03 But I said if AP got hired, I would do Hondo in a hoodie.
46:09 So expect that if it's announced next week, Zeke, I will be doing it in my newest Raider
46:18 hoodie.
46:19 I'm looking forward to it.
46:21 And then the only other time I'll wear one ever again is after playoff wins.
46:27 So next season.
46:28 Look at you preaching to the choir.
46:32 Last thing I want to talk about Tyree Wilson.
46:36 In the interest of full disclosure, I think you and I both love that kid.
46:43 Just I tell people this all the time on that football field.
46:47 He is aggressive and tough.
46:50 He is not as vocal as a Max Crosby, but he is as kind and gentle as a person as Max is.
46:59 Max is very warm, very kind.
47:03 There is nothing about Tyree not to like.
47:06 He is just I love his zeal for life.
47:11 I love his attitude.
47:14 He is just a precious human being.
47:18 And fans only care about the football side, which I get.
47:23 But I always try to let people see the other side of guys, too.
47:27 And you know, there are several guys.
47:29 We're going to be doing articles on this offseason who are tremendous people and about them personally.
47:34 But Tyree is just that guy.
47:38 I was so happy because he worked so hard.
47:43 He didn't come in saying, listen, I'm making all this jack.
47:47 This draft pick.
47:48 He was humble from day one.
47:49 In fact, I think it may be hurt him a little bit that he wasn't a little bit more swaggy.
47:57 But you know, guys given the rook issues, but he took it.
48:01 He never stopped working.
48:03 He never stopped.
48:04 I mean, how many times did you and I privately have people in the locker room say, man, people
48:09 need to give that kid a break.
48:10 He's working his tail off.
48:11 He earned the respect of the locker room.
48:14 I was so glad once AP took over and the reins were taken off on Patrick Graham, he's moved
48:19 to the inside.
48:21 He's making plays.
48:22 And man, when the end of the year came, that kid was having fun.
48:25 He was just having a joy.
48:27 How excited are you?
48:29 Not as a and you're a Raider fan.
48:30 I'm not.
48:32 But as a football guy, how excited are you to see the step he takes next year?
48:36 Yeah, well, you know, as a football guy, as a former defensive end myself, listen, I am
48:41 excited to see Tyree just take off.
48:45 And to your point, and you actually took the words out of my mouth.
48:47 I was going to cut you off, but I didn't because you said it right after I was going to say
48:50 it.
48:51 He's almost too nice.
48:53 He was almost too humble, and it was hurting him a little bit at first.
48:58 He was almost a little too kind, a little bit too humble, like I said.
49:02 And you kind of started to see him, as AP would say, kind of let that dog out after
49:06 a few weeks.
49:07 But what happened was, like you said, he got moved to the inside.
49:11 He started seeing some success.
49:12 And I think once he started seeing the success of his hard work, it just made him even more
49:17 hungry.
49:18 But in terms of the 17-game season, it was more than fun to see him progress week by
49:23 week.
49:24 And some of that progression was some failures, where a slow start was having to learn the
49:27 ups and downs of the league and then come out on the other end of that and see where
49:31 he was at the end of the season.
49:32 And like you said, by the end of the season, he was talking more.
49:35 He was more vocal in the locker room.
49:37 He had kind of let his guard down a little bit.
49:39 But that was because he was successful on the field, and he had earned the trust of
49:43 his teammates.
49:44 So next season, I expect even more from him.
49:47 He's going to take off next year for sure.
49:50 I'll tell you, there is nobody in that organization that doesn't like Tyree Wilson.
49:55 None.
49:56 None.
49:57 Not enough.
49:58 They all like him.
49:59 You know, they gave him the normal rookie, you know, I don't want to say hazing, but
50:02 they definitely gave him, you know, a hard time a little bit.
50:06 That's for most rookies.
50:08 And he worked his way through it.
50:10 And I think that's part of what built the respect too, though, right?
50:12 Not just his success on the field, is that he took a lot of the ribbing on the offside
50:16 or off of the field, excuse me, and he took it in stride and he kept on pushing.
50:20 So he's got a lot of growth that he's going to be doing this offseason.
50:24 But next year, look out.
50:27 You said something.
50:29 Hazing now has kind of become a bad word.
50:32 I think your generation would use ribbing.
50:34 My generation would say they gave him the business.
50:38 But he took it.
50:39 Oh, yeah.
50:40 And I like it.
50:41 All right, here we go, everybody.
50:42 We've got tons of great coverage.
50:43 I think yesterday we had 12 articles.
50:48 I don't even know how many videos, shorts.
50:52 We continue to flood you with lots of great free stuff.
50:57 Now, we're not arrogant.
50:59 We understand there are some great journalists that cover the Las Vegas Raiders.
51:03 We are not the only ones.
51:05 And we don't think we are.
51:07 But don't pay people for what we give you for free.
51:11 If you're going to pay somebody, make sure it's somebody giving you something that we're
51:14 not.
51:15 And there are those doing that.
51:16 So that's not a slam on anyone.
51:18 But make sure you're checking out all of our coverage.
51:20 You're going to go to si.com/nfl/raiders.
51:23 At the top right corner, you can also hit newsletter.
51:26 And there you can sign up.
51:28 We never sell your information and we don't spam you.
51:30 But three days a week, we'll send you an email with our best stories so you never miss another
51:35 great story again.
51:37 You can follow me on Instagram @hondosr, on X, formerly known as Twitter @hondocarpenter.
51:44 Remember, if you don't want to look at my face, I know everyone wants to look at Z.
51:47 He's a fine looking individual, but I'm not.
51:50 If you want to just listen, you can go to Spotify or Apple and check out Las Vegas Raiders
51:55 Insider Podcast with Hondo Carpenter.
51:58 Also on those audio only channels, I do a second podcast every day.
52:03 It's five to 10 minutes.
52:04 It's Riding with Hondo and Dexter.
52:05 It's when I'm in the car.
52:06 Maybe I'll talk to a player, get a text, whatever.
52:09 Just quick little information.
52:10 You want to check that out.
52:11 But whatever.
52:12 Thank you guys for listening, for subscribing, for sharing.
52:16 Zeke, stay on the line.
52:17 I got to talk to you about something.
52:18 But this guy right here, one of the very best.
52:20 I love him dearly.
52:21 He is my buddy, my coworker, my pal, and my friend.
52:25 He's a great husband, great father, great son, and a terrific journalist, the great
52:30 Zeke Trezevant.
52:31 I appreciate you, bud.
52:32 - Thank you guys.
52:33 See you soon.
52:34 - See you soon.