With the Portrait of American Traveler Study, AFAR and MMGY have partnered to understand affluent and conscientious global travelers and the impact they will have on the travel industry’s future. This research will laid the groundwork for a dynamic panel discussion focused on how values-based marketing can attract the right visitors and guide them towards the best experiences for travelers, locals, and the destination.
Moderated by AFAR VP and Publisher Bryan Kinkade, this virtual panel features four esteemed leaders in travel: Matt Berna, President, North America, Intrepid Travel; Maria J. Abuabara Brülhart, Executive Director of Tourism, USA, ProColombia; Chris Davidson, EVP, Travel Intelligence, MMGY Global; and Ricarda Lindner, Regional Manager-Americas, German National Tourist Office.
Moderated by AFAR VP and Publisher Bryan Kinkade, this virtual panel features four esteemed leaders in travel: Matt Berna, President, North America, Intrepid Travel; Maria J. Abuabara Brülhart, Executive Director of Tourism, USA, ProColombia; Chris Davidson, EVP, Travel Intelligence, MMGY Global; and Ricarda Lindner, Regional Manager-Americas, German National Tourist Office.
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TravelTranscript
00:00 A warm welcome to everybody.
00:01 Thank you so much for joining.
00:04 My name's Brian Kincaid.
00:05 I'm the Vice President and Publisher at Afar,
00:07 a position I've held now for 10 years.
00:09 It puts me in an incredibly privileged position
00:12 to work with the Far editors and photographers, videographers,
00:16 podcast producers, and marketers to harness
00:18 the power of our brand to engage with many of you
00:21 on this call to create values-based storytelling.
00:25 In addition to my role at Afar, I
00:26 serve on the executive committee of the Tourism Cares
00:29 Board of Directors.
00:29 So needless to say, sustainability, conservation,
00:32 and philanthropy are subjects very near and dear to my heart.
00:36 So it's been a while since we've done
00:42 one of these virtual Afar Lives, but it
00:45 felt like such a timely discussion to surface.
00:49 And judging from 300-plus RSVPs, a hot topic of interest
00:53 to a lot of you.
00:54 So absolutely thrilled to be welcoming you guys here today.
00:57 Also a very special thanks to Terry, Dale, and Peggy,
01:00 and Luis, and the team at USTUA, who we've collaborated
01:03 with on this topic today, and whose
01:05 active and associate members will
01:07 be powering our panel ahead.
01:10 I guess just some other logistics.
01:11 Probably easiest to be viewed through the speaker view.
01:15 So if you go up into the top right of your screen,
01:18 you will see the active speaker.
01:19 We're going to be sharing the screen a couple of times.
01:22 So I think that'll just make things a little bit easier
01:24 for you.
01:25 We are recording this, so can share as a follow-up,
01:28 as well as contact names, links that we'll
01:31 be referencing throughout, and more information on this.
01:36 So just a little context, I guess,
01:39 from our point of view at Afar before we jump into the panel.
01:42 When we launched Afar 13 years ago,
01:44 we knew that travelers wanted more unique and immersive
01:46 travel experiences that did align with their values.
01:50 However, I don't think we realized
01:51 that by leading with these values,
01:53 we would end up attracting the most well-traveled, affluent,
01:56 and influential audience across the entire travel media
01:59 landscape.
02:00 Now, we don't talk about private jets and luxury watches
02:03 or any chandeliers.
02:05 Instead, this audience that we've attracted
02:09 is attracted to us and inspired by our values-based
02:13 storytelling, which is obviously what we're going to be unpacking
02:15 a little bit today.
02:16 For us, that means telling deep and meaningful stories
02:19 about people, places, celebrating
02:21 the human connection and the joy of travel,
02:24 and really providing highly curated and well-researched
02:26 recommendations for what to do and how to do it responsibly.
02:29 And certainly, as travel continues to rebound,
02:31 we're putting our values as a brand front and center
02:34 in everything we do in order to better guide travelers
02:37 towards more fulfilling experiences that align directly
02:40 with their values.
02:42 So again, an incredible panel today.
02:45 Before we get into the panel discussion,
02:47 I'm really happy to be joined by a good friend and a partner,
02:50 Chris Davidson.
02:52 Chris is the EVP of Travel Intelligence at MMGY.
02:56 We've been happy to partner with MMGY
02:58 over the past half dozen years or so
03:00 on their Portrait of an American Traveler study that really
03:03 better quantifies the premise that we've
03:05 held in and around values-based storytelling
03:09 and ultimately that we'll be unpacking today.
03:13 I'm going to turn it over to Chris,
03:14 and he's going to help you navigate
03:17 this research and this data for your own purposes.
03:21 And what we're looking at here is an eco-affluent audience
03:24 segment that the Portrait of an American Traveler has cut out.
03:27 This is not necessarily directly the afar audience,
03:30 but certainly reflective of it.
03:32 And I think it also points to how attractive this audience is
03:35 in the coming years during potentially
03:37 a tumultuous economic outlook ahead.
03:39 So after Chris shares this research,
03:41 we'll invite in our panelists, all experts in their own right
03:44 in value-based storytelling to share some insights,
03:47 examples, case studies, pitfalls for all of you
03:49 to help understand how to bring these narratives to life
03:51 in your own marketing effort.
03:55 So with that, Chris, I'm going to hand it over to you.
03:58 I hope you have the capability to share your screen,
04:03 and we'll take it from there.
04:07 It looks like it's disabled again.
04:09 If you want to just uncheck that box,
04:11 we should be able to share.
04:13 And while you're doing that, just give me a high sign
04:14 when you've got that ready to roll.
04:16 But awesome.
04:18 That was quick.
04:19 Still showing it.
04:20 Sorry.
04:21 Well, first of all, thanks, Brian,
04:26 while you're looking at that.
04:28 As Brian said, we've worked with afar for a number of years
04:31 now to really explore this audience.
04:33 And the key question was, from a values perspective,
04:37 do values matter when it comes to travel decisions?
04:39 Because that's ultimately what we're looking at.
04:41 I mean, I think we can all agree that values matter generally.
04:45 But do they impact and affect decision-making
04:48 when it comes to travel?
04:49 And if so, for those for whom it does,
04:54 then what do we know about that consumer?
04:57 What do we know about that traveler?
04:59 And are they a more valuable traveler
05:00 for destinations and travel service providers
05:02 around the world?
05:04 So I'm going to go ahead and share my screen here.
05:07 And it looks like it's working now, so we're in good shape.
05:13 So first of all, as an organization,
05:15 we have a business mission, which
05:18 is to inspire people to go places.
05:20 Pretty straightforward.
05:21 As a travel and tourism marketing organization
05:23 and the research that we do to inform that,
05:26 it's pretty straightforward.
05:28 But again, we're in the business of communications.
05:30 We're in the business of impacting decision-making.
05:32 But so that's-- from a business mission perspective,
05:36 that makes sense.
05:37 But when it comes to--
05:39 sorry, I'm trying to click across here.
05:41 There we go.
05:43 When it comes to a values mission,
05:45 we had never really done a good job
05:47 as an organization of articulating what we all felt.
05:50 I think we felt as an organization,
05:52 these are values we've held for quite a while,
05:54 but we hadn't really taken the time
05:56 to articulate them clearly.
05:58 And I think it's important, as we're talking about the values
06:02 based traveler, just to convey the process that we
06:05 went through.
06:06 And you can see here on the screen,
06:08 our company will help to create a connected, inclusive,
06:10 and peaceful world by promoting travel
06:12 as a cultural bridge of understanding.
06:13 A pretty simple statement, and it's a part of our overall
06:16 values mission.
06:18 But it's something that, again, shares to the world,
06:21 hopefully, what's important to us.
06:23 And that while we know it's important to companies,
06:27 and we can talk about that all day,
06:28 we also know it's important to travelers.
06:30 In fact, we ask a question that's
06:32 phrased as an agreement question, essentially,
06:35 the percent that agree and the percent that do not necessarily
06:37 agree with the statement.
06:39 Where we ask travelers, the statement
06:42 is that the places I choose to visit say something
06:45 about me as a person.
06:47 And for the first time this most recent year,
06:50 in the most recent data, 52%, more than half of all
06:54 respondents said that that is a statement that they
06:57 feel is an accurate statement that they--
07:00 or a belief that they share.
07:02 So it's something that-- and that number is up from 20%,
07:05 30%, 40% over the last 10 years or so.
07:08 And we're seeing increasingly that people say, again,
07:11 the values of places I visit stand for,
07:15 those say something about me as a traveler.
07:17 So it's pretty interesting.
07:19 The data I'm going to share with you quickly just to set up
07:22 the conversation comes from our Portrait of American Travelers,
07:25 as Brian said.
07:26 It's a study that we've done now for 33 consecutive years.
07:29 This is a-- now over the last couple of years,
07:32 we started doing it quarterly.
07:34 So we interview or survey 4,500 people each and every quarter.
07:38 And we ask them a whole slate of questions
07:39 about how do they make decisions around travel,
07:42 sources of travel information, use of travel advisors,
07:46 all sorts of things.
07:48 And part of that is really questions
07:50 around sustainable travel.
07:51 And we have the ability to obviously go in and slice
07:53 and dice the data, as you would expect.
07:56 So what have we done here?
07:57 Well, we've looked at with the certain hypotheses in place
08:01 to go ahead and test some of these things.
08:02 So look at here, we've identified 3.7%
08:06 of the respondent database that met two criteria,
08:11 or actually three criteria.
08:12 One was that they are active leisure travelers.
08:15 So they expect to take some form of leisure travel at least once
08:19 in the next 12 months.
08:20 The second is that they make at least $125,000
08:24 in annual household income.
08:25 So depending on where you are, obviously, in the country,
08:28 that may be considered affluent or may not
08:30 be considered necessarily affluent.
08:31 But it's the threshold that we use to do the analysis.
08:35 And the third is amongst all the different personas
08:39 that we give them the option to select,
08:41 they have selected--
08:42 all the people who meet this definition
08:44 have selected that I consider myself
08:47 to be environmentally conscious.
08:49 And so again, 33--
08:50 or I'm sorry, 3.7% of our respondent population
08:55 expressed all three of those.
08:58 And what we would call these people is the eco-affluent
09:01 travelers.
09:02 And so I'm going to give you just a sense of who
09:04 these people are.
09:05 So first of all, average age is a little bit older,
09:08 as you would expect, than the rest of the respondent database
09:12 at 50.
09:13 And they intend to take just under five trips
09:16 over the next 12 months.
09:18 And we don't define exactly how long those trips are,
09:21 but essentially five overnight leisure trips
09:24 within the next 12 months.
09:25 That compares to about 3.8 for all other travelers.
09:29 Well, I said that they have to qualify
09:31 by meeting that $125,000 annual household income threshold.
09:36 You can see here, they're actually much more affluent
09:39 than that in terms of household income, $233,000
09:43 of average annual household income for this responding
09:45 group.
09:46 And you can see here that 62.70 is the projected budget,
09:50 travel budget, for the next 12 months for leisure travel.
09:54 And that compares to about 3,600, 3,700
09:57 for the travel population overall.
10:01 And you're probably saying, well, yeah,
10:02 that's probably because they have a higher household income.
10:06 And that is true.
10:07 Certainly, that's part of it, and a fair part of it.
10:10 But I will tell you that when you add in
10:12 and you look specifically at the audience of interest here,
10:15 the eco-affluent traveler who is self-identified in that way,
10:19 that number is even higher.
10:21 So that environmentally conscious variable
10:25 does have an impact, and it is a statistically significant
10:28 difference.
10:29 So it is truly a traveler that spends more,
10:34 or that travels more, but particularly spends more
10:36 statistically.
10:38 And you can see they're also a very educated group.
10:40 I'll call out at the top the 37%, about one in three
10:44 only consider themselves to be luxury travelers.
10:46 So I'm going to show you a comparative stat in a minute
10:49 where we look at those who consider themselves
10:52 to be luxury travelers, and then the percentage of which
10:54 can consider themselves to be travel bargain hunters.
10:58 And it's a pretty interesting little insight
11:00 I'll share in just a moment.
11:02 So we look at--
11:04 I've got a couple of lists here just to share.
11:06 For that eco-affluent traveler, where do they want to go?
11:10 Well, you can see here, this is a top 10 list
11:12 of states they want to visit.
11:13 And if any of you want to take a guess,
11:15 you're welcome to put it in chat or just simply sit there
11:18 and think who might top that list of destinations, states
11:21 that you want to visit.
11:23 I'll call out that there are a couple here.
11:25 North Carolina moves up from 11 in our all travelers list
11:29 up to 10 here.
11:30 And the biggest mover is actually
11:31 New Mexico, which comes up from number 21 in our overall,
11:35 typically.
11:37 That comes in at number 10 here.
11:40 And forgive me, North Carolina moved up to 9.
11:43 New Mexico moves up from 21 to 9 for this audience.
11:46 So those are the biggest movers.
11:48 The top one is, as you probably guessed, Hawaii.
11:51 And then as we look at specific destinations on this next list,
11:56 these are the places that people tell us in the next two years
11:59 they would like to go.
12:00 From a long list, they select the ones
12:01 that they'd like to visit in the next two years.
12:04 Does it mean that every one of them
12:05 will visit every one of the places they select?
12:08 No, of course not.
12:08 But it does tell you that they have an interest in visiting
12:11 and they'd be a qualified prospect
12:12 for these destinations.
12:15 So this is, again, the top 10 list.
12:16 I've hidden the top one.
12:18 If any of you want to guess, you're more than welcome.
12:21 While you're thinking about it, Palm Springs here
12:24 moved up from number 23 in our overall list to number 9.
12:28 So that's the biggest mover.
12:30 Palm Beach moved up from 14 to 9.
12:33 And then Napa Valley actually moves up from 19 to 5.
12:37 And part of that's obviously, for all three of these,
12:39 would be income-based, but also destinations
12:42 that are of particular interest for that eco-affluent traveler.
12:47 I don't know that there's a lot of suspense around this one,
12:50 considering what I showed you a moment ago.
12:52 But Honolulu is the top rated destination of interest,
12:55 stream destination to visit for this audience segment.
13:00 So what activities of interest are there?
13:02 And you can see here that I intuitively
13:04 would have thought that hiking, climbing, biking, and adventure,
13:07 that one would rise to the top of the list.
13:09 The eco-affluent traveler makes perfect sense,
13:12 at least in my mind it did.
13:13 And I can, in fact, confirm that it does move up
13:17 fairly considerably in terms of the percentage of people
13:19 to say that's of interest when they travel.
13:22 47%, you can see here, express an interest
13:25 in that form of activity when they travel.
13:27 That compares to just 1 in 3, or 33%
13:30 overall for travelers at large.
13:33 So other ones obviously moved up at the same time.
13:36 But the top three are visiting a museum at 65%,
13:41 visiting a state or national park at 66%,
13:44 and then topping the list, visiting historical sites.
13:48 And so while again, the mindset you might have immediately
13:53 would go to hiking, biking, outdoor adventure
13:55 type of activities.
13:56 Also very important, you can see here
13:59 that this audience tells us these are the top three things
14:03 that they really want to do when they travel.
14:04 So important to remember about what
14:07 you might select from an image standpoint, creative
14:09 development, and so forth.
14:10 All right, we also asked, as I mentioned,
14:16 we have a whole long list of personas
14:18 that people can self-identify as and self-select in the survey
14:21 to say this describes me as a person.
14:24 You can see the top ones, foodie, pet lover, beach lover,
14:28 family traveler.
14:29 These are for that eco-affluent traveler.
14:31 These are the other things, the top rank order list of things
14:34 that they had selected that identify them as people.
14:38 Now what I would highlight here is what I mentioned earlier.
14:41 Travel bargain hunter, which doesn't make the top 10 list
14:44 typically, comes in here at 39%, which is actually
14:48 higher than those who self-identify
14:50 as a luxury traveler.
14:52 So again, 233,000 average annual household income,
14:56 and yet 4 in 10 consider themselves
14:59 to be travel bargain hunters.
15:01 So that's important to remember that there's
15:03 a difference between a perception
15:05 or of an affluent traveler and a perception of a luxury
15:08 traveler, and just really understanding
15:10 the differentiation in terms of how people think
15:13 about themselves and the types of expenditures
15:15 that are of most value to them when they do travel.
15:22 We also know that it begs the question,
15:25 are people willing to spend--
15:28 if you look at this and we say, well, if that's the case,
15:30 are people willing to spend a premium
15:32 or pay a premium to patronize travel service providers,
15:41 excuse me, who demonstrate environmental responsibility?
15:44 Just as one basic question.
15:46 Well, we ask that question overall in our survey,
15:49 and we know that for travelers overall, about 6 in 10
15:51 say they're actually willing to pay a premium.
15:54 And what I would caution you, thinking about that number,
15:57 while that's, I think, a fairly impressive number that say
16:00 they will actually pay a premium,
16:02 it's important to remember that the balance of those,
16:04 or at least a percentage of the other 40% or 38%,
16:09 may well just expect it.
16:10 And it may be a price of entry if you don't do it,
16:13 that's not something they'll consider.
16:15 But I'm not willing to pay a premium for it
16:16 because it's something I expect at the places I visit
16:18 or the places I choose to stay.
16:20 Greg Oates is our head of innovation at the company.
16:25 And some of you may know Greg.
16:27 He's-- you can read the quote as well as I can read it.
16:31 But as you're doing so, it's just something
16:35 that we know--
16:37 we have increasingly as an agency
16:39 feel that values-based marketing is critically important,
16:42 environmental and sustainability issues
16:44 being a part of that.
16:46 It's increasingly a visible and important part
16:48 of decision making.
16:49 All the data would support that.
16:50 And we just think, in general, that defining and living
16:54 out your values as a destination,
16:56 as a travel service provider, whatever
16:57 your brand says to your consumers
17:01 and your other stakeholders, is a really, really smart
17:04 and important way to position your brand
17:06 for today's traveler.
17:07 So with that, I'm going to just pass this back to Brian.
17:10 I know we've got a STEAM group to talk about some of the ways
17:13 that this is implemented in more practical terms.
17:16 So thanks very much for your time
17:18 and happy to address any questions at the end.
17:20 Yeah, so much great data to unpack there.
17:25 I've got a million follow-up questions.
17:26 And Arti, we've got a bunch in the chat.
17:29 Why don't you just hold?
17:31 We'll pull you back in at the end
17:32 as time allows for some follow-up questions there.
17:36 Cool, thanks.
17:38 All right, well, now for the topic at hand,
17:40 I am so excited to welcome in our panelists.
17:44 Quickly, in no particular order, Riccardo Lindner,
17:47 regional manager of the Americas representing Germany,
17:50 Maria-José Aboubar-Roulard, executive director of Tourism
17:54 at ProColumbia, and Matt Berna, the managing director
17:57 of North America for Intrepid Travel.
18:01 Such a fun and diverse group, I think,
18:03 with a lot of unique viewpoints to address the topic at hand.
18:07 Maria-José lends an incredible point of view
18:09 from such a destination rich in natural resources,
18:13 but who has only been promoting itself
18:14 as a tourist destination for 20 years now,
18:17 I think you said, Maria-José.
18:19 On the flip side, Riccardo representing a destination
18:23 fairly new, at least from the outside perspective,
18:25 to the promotion of sustainability,
18:27 but a country for whom sustainability and values
18:30 run core to your DNA.
18:32 And then Matt, who I think can really hit it
18:34 from kind of where rubber meets the road,
18:37 company actually bringing these travelers out into the world
18:40 on these life-changing trips.
18:41 So Riccardo and Maria-José, I'll start with you guys,
18:45 if you don't mind, and would love to just talk
18:49 about sustainability a little bit more.
18:51 And as alarming as climate change
18:53 and some of the environmental issues are in the world,
18:56 I think the narrative in USTUA, in tourism in general,
19:00 seems to be broadening the approach
19:02 to sustainability a little bit.
19:04 So just curious, Riccardo, maybe we'll start with you.
19:08 How are you defining sustainability?
19:10 And then how does that fit into your values-based
19:12 marketing efforts?
19:13 Oh, un-muted.
19:17 - After so many years of Zoom, sorry for that.
19:21 Thank you so much, Brian, for having me
19:23 and welcome for everybody on here.
19:25 Yeah, thank you for that question.
19:26 I think that's very important because we as marketers,
19:29 we feel like sustainability is not the most attractive word
19:33 in communication.
19:34 And it always sounds a little bit limiting,
19:36 a little constraining when it comes to travel and vacation,
19:39 when you actually feel like you want to have fun
19:41 and let your hair down.
19:42 So what we actually do, we dress the act
19:45 of behaving sustainable or behaving responsibly
19:49 with different campaigns that showcase our USPs
19:52 as a destination anyway already.
19:55 So for example, we talk about culinary journalism.
19:59 And when we talk about culinary Germany,
20:00 we talk about regional seasonal cuisine
20:03 at the traditional restaurants or the gourmet temples,
20:06 wherever they are, really found to table
20:09 is for us a way of life.
20:11 And that's something that we grew up with
20:15 and less so something that the farmers market
20:18 at Union Square, those New Yorkers among us
20:21 know what I'm talking about, think they have invented.
20:24 So this is how we generously and carefully
20:29 implement sustainability in our message
20:31 about exploring Germany on a culinary.
20:35 What we showcase our 51 UNESCO World Heritage Sites
20:38 throughout the country, because from serving the culture
20:41 and the old is so much more sustainable
20:44 than actually tearing it down and building new.
20:47 Well, as a last example that I have together
20:49 with our friends from afar,
20:51 we launched a feel good campaign
20:53 in which we sent influencers to Germany
20:55 and actually showcase how easy and fun it is
20:58 to vacation in Germany and acting while acting responsibly,
21:02 while using our fantastic train system,
21:05 while using the Autobahn with an e-car,
21:07 while staying at fantastic boutique star hotels
21:12 that really put a focus on their sustainability practices
21:16 or enjoying vegan food, which is really one of the,
21:19 Germany is one of the forefront runners of vegan food
21:22 and vegetarian food.
21:24 So my point is, I think to sum it up
21:27 is that sustainability really resonates
21:29 in everything that we communicate about the brand Germany
21:32 and about destination Germany.
21:34 But we're focusing on the fun aspect of it,
21:37 on the explorational aspect of culture and the treasures
21:41 and therefore hoping that we make everybody feel good
21:44 while traveling to Germany.
21:46 - That's great.
21:46 That's great.
21:47 One of our Laura, Laura Dannen-Redman,
21:50 one of our editors often says that we don't wanna be wagging
21:54 our finger at people and telling them
21:56 they have to eat their vegetables,
21:57 but we wanna sneak their vegetables subtly into their food
22:00 so that they're having even without knowing it.
22:03 That's great.
22:04 Thanks Ricarda.
22:04 And Maria Jose, from your end, again,
22:06 I know sustainability is front and center
22:08 in everything you're doing in Colombia.
22:10 So curious kind of how you define it, how you approach it
22:13 and then how you incorporate that into your messaging.
22:15 - Thank you, Brian, for this great invitation.
22:17 And moreover for the leadership of AFAR
22:19 in educating the traveler towards sustainability
22:22 and making sustainability fun.
22:23 Well, in the case of Colombia,
22:26 we felt a great responsibility to preserve
22:30 our natural wealth and cultural heritage as well.
22:34 And we had the urge to find an economic activity
22:38 that could drive the conservation of these two.
22:42 And it turns out it is tourism.
22:44 So tourism has taken the main stage
22:46 of Colombia's economic development.
22:49 Especially in the past, I would say five years
22:53 we've taken monumental steps towards that.
22:56 Being one of the 12 countries in the world
22:58 to have a sustainable tourism policy.
23:01 It's basically the law in Colombia.
23:03 It's the only way.
23:04 So we felt the urge to create the conditions
23:06 for the traveler to behave sustainably.
23:09 And as far as the approach to values-based marketing
23:14 in every piece of communication that Colombia does,
23:19 you will find embedded the concept of sustainability.
23:24 I also agree with Ricarda that,
23:27 this cannot be an imposition, right?
23:31 It's no longer a choice, right?
23:34 It is the right way to do things.
23:36 And we as DMOs and as governments need to set the ground
23:39 for the traveler to find that, right?
23:42 And to experience it.
23:44 So it's basically that.
23:46 It's tourism as a driver for the conservation
23:51 of biodiversity and cultural wealth.
23:54 And then from that unfolds the many products, experiences
23:59 and the way the stakeholders
24:01 are also embracing sustainability.
24:03 That it's also a huge part of how we engage them
24:06 in all the tools that ProColombia has
24:08 as a national DMO.
24:10 - Fascinating.
24:12 That's interesting and leads me to a question for you, Matt.
24:15 And just thinking again about who are the stakeholders
24:19 involved in this and maybe more importantly,
24:21 where is the direction coming from?
24:24 You guys, leaders in this space,
24:25 but curious as are your travelers demanding that?
24:28 Are the Gen Zs on your staff asking for that?
24:31 Is that the vision from the founder on down?
24:33 Where for those in the room who are kind of starting out
24:37 in this journey potentially,
24:38 who needs to be the champion
24:40 or does it come from a lot of places?
24:42 Curious.
24:43 - Yeah, sure.
24:44 Thanks Brian.
24:45 And just a quick hello to all my colleagues out in USTOA.
24:47 Nice to see you all.
24:48 Sort of.
24:49 Really good question.
24:50 So I think with Intrepid's case, it started naturally.
24:53 Of course, the business is around 30 years
24:55 and just the fundamental style, how we traveled,
24:57 originally in small groups, immersive,
24:59 trying to support local economies.
25:00 It just built from that.
25:01 And I'll not take the 30 year history into one minute here,
25:04 but I think through those experiences
25:06 and starting to get feedback from our customers
25:08 about what they enjoyed about the trips themselves,
25:10 really compelled the company to continue down this path
25:13 of trying to, again, follow what we considered back then
25:15 a responsible business model.
25:17 And then from there, I guess,
25:18 terminology converted into sustainability.
25:21 And on the back of some of the decisions we made,
25:23 some really difficult decisions.
25:25 One of our classics was the decision
25:28 to ban elephant riding.
25:29 That was very much a commercial decision, right?
25:31 Because we knew from studies we've done,
25:33 from customer feedback, our own leaders' feedback,
25:34 our staff feedback, that it wasn't a great experience
25:37 for anybody, certainly not for the elephants.
25:39 And so we took a stance on that
25:41 and it was a really tough commercial decision.
25:43 What came out of that was fantastic help for reputation
25:47 and for us to kind of take, be more compelled
25:49 to make those more difficult decisions, right?
25:51 About what's right for the business
25:52 and for the community and environment
25:54 versus what's right for your bottom line.
25:56 So I think we've moved along the path
25:59 from sustainability, responsible business.
26:01 I think now we're probably even more going towards
26:03 this kind of purpose-led, values-led business model.
26:06 So which pretty much lends this conversation
26:07 about how do you talk to your values as a business?
26:10 Because a customer, as we know,
26:11 in Chris's study there, of course they want to align.
26:16 I love this term, eco-affluent.
26:18 They want to align with the company,
26:19 they want to align with the products they're buying.
26:21 They're more conscious, they're more aware.
26:23 But same time, it does come down to price,
26:25 what fits their schedule, right?
26:26 And what kind of, what they want to be proud
26:28 to tell their friends about.
26:29 So you can't be too strong
26:30 on how you market sustainability.
26:32 It has to be innately built into the products
26:34 and experiences we're delivering.
26:35 And you have to tell that story
26:36 through those websites, your blogs, your posts.
26:39 So a big question that I'm trying to put
26:42 into a two-minute answer, but it has to come
26:44 to the top down, but it has to be throughout
26:46 and really genuine through all your comms pieces as well.
26:48 - Yeah, no, and that certainly shines through
26:51 in all the communication.
26:52 So well done and well-written on that one.
26:55 Ricardo, from your end, curious where, again,
26:59 from my perspective, the messaging
27:02 around sustainable travel opportunities
27:04 in Germany is somewhat new and curious.
27:06 Is that something that, where did that vision come from?
27:10 Where did that idea germinate?
27:12 Other than USTA panels over the recent years, right?
27:15 - Obviously shows me that we have to do much more work,
27:19 Brian, but really acting sustainably
27:22 and with regards to the environment
27:24 is an educated part of our DNA.
27:28 So we are separating garbage for centuries
27:32 and we will see no German that would leave their lights on
27:35 once they leave the room or even let their water run
27:38 in the shower or anything like this
27:39 that we're so casually used to here in the US.
27:44 There's really a reason why Americans come back
27:46 and always say like, "Oh my goodness,
27:47 it is so clean in Germany.
27:48 There's no garbage laying around
27:50 anywhere in the streets or anywhere."
27:52 So really on the international benchmark
27:55 and the UN SDG index, Germany holds the position number six
27:59 amongst almost 200 different countries.
28:02 So I think the message has been always
28:06 softly integrated with it, maybe not so hard,
28:09 but we also took this very serious.
28:12 We have for over 10 years,
28:13 we have a innovation manager in our company
28:16 that takes care of sustainability
28:19 and travel availability for everyone.
28:22 So we take the UN SDGs internally and externally
28:27 as our major guidelines and measure our success on them.
28:31 So every year, we're, for example,
28:32 we're certified with a green globe as a company itself.
28:36 But I think that we can all agree that we're in a journey
28:40 and, but there's no choice as Maria said already,
28:44 everybody's involved, everybody needs to be involved.
28:47 Everybody needs to be part of this journey,
28:49 including our guests and visitors
28:51 that we're inviting to our country.
28:53 - That's great, thank you.
28:54 Maria Jose, I'll change the question a little bit for you.
29:00 And just again, thinking about the DMO narrative
29:03 over the years, and I'm sure you guys are held
29:05 to very strict criteria around arrivals,
29:09 heads and beds and the like,
29:10 but quantity has been really the measurement
29:13 that I think a lot of destinations have been looking at
29:15 for pre-pandemic anyway.
29:17 And it does seem like it's shifting
29:19 a little bit towards quality.
29:20 And so I'm just curious from your end,
29:22 how you balance the need to appeal to a wide audience
29:26 with the need to stay very true to your values
29:28 as a destination in Colombia?
29:31 - You know, it's always a challenge
29:32 because governments want to measure development, right?
29:37 And every, you know, across all our industries,
29:41 I think we're still measuring number of arrivals
29:44 and the income that comes, you know,
29:48 the economic impact of that.
29:50 But very little we're measuring, you know,
29:55 the invisible burden on the communities, for example,
29:59 of tourism, which is huge.
30:00 Actually, you know, tourism in the most sought-after
30:04 destinations makes it very hard for the residents to leave
30:07 because the cost of living raises significantly.
30:10 So we are in a process of redefining our indicators.
30:14 It doesn't mean that we are going to leave behind,
30:16 of course, the number of travelers that are a priority
30:19 for us and in which Colombia has done a great job
30:21 in positioning in certain countries
30:23 to become now number one destination,
30:24 for example, in South America for the US traveler.
30:27 And that has been huge for us, you know,
30:29 to be on the 1.1 million US travelers,
30:33 just from, you know, becoming 30% of our market share.
30:38 We're far from over tourism in most of the destinations,
30:42 but we really have to be careful, you know,
30:45 in how do we administer the traffic
30:51 and generate that traffic to most remote destinations.
30:56 So definitely measurement is something
30:58 that we're reconsidering.
31:01 We value the great work that Intrepid, for example,
31:06 is doing in that sense that, you know,
31:09 other tour operators are --
31:11 the efforts that other tour operators are doing
31:14 to standardize the measurement,
31:19 because this cannot be, you know,
31:22 a game played with only one player.
31:24 This is something that should be undertaken
31:26 by the whole industry.
31:28 And it's not easy.
31:29 It's not easy for a government to turn
31:32 around their whole measuring system,
31:34 but it definitely needs to be measured.
31:35 Otherwise, it won't be controlled.
31:37 So in that sense, the national tourism policy
31:40 and our sustainability policy are very focused
31:46 on the topic of exercising more control
31:52 over the standardization of tourism,
31:54 including those indicators that we're going to measure,
31:57 very tied to the impact of the community at large.
32:03 You know, we've done a great effort during 2020
32:07 to actually change the way we promote Colombia
32:10 and the way the offer is organized.
32:12 And this is all leading to the same object.
32:19 It's -- you're going to share later those links
32:22 to the whole of it.
32:23 And Colombia has five geopolitical regions,
32:26 and those five geopolitical regions
32:28 were not particularly serving all the communities, right?
32:32 And so if we were, you know,
32:37 referring to those five geopolitical regions
32:39 and then changing the tourism strategy,
32:42 we'll be leaving behind many of the destinations.
32:45 And so what we did during the pandemic
32:46 was to take apart all the destinations
32:49 and reorganize them in a smarter and more sustainable way
32:53 to make sure that we have the connectivity hubs
32:58 and around them every possible destination
33:01 to generate traffic to more remote areas of Colombia
33:06 and also travel across regions in repetition,
33:10 but in the right way.
33:12 So, you know, there's no short answer to this.
33:15 It's a process.
33:16 There's a lot to walk in this journey,
33:22 but we definitely are committed, and it's coming.
33:25 It's coming that we're going to reconsider our indicators.
33:29 -That's great.
33:30 And, Matt, you probably can speak to it again
33:34 with credit cards coming directly through you.
33:36 Is it something that you guys can really keep your finger
33:39 on the pulse of how the messaging is changing that?
33:42 -Yeah, so let me -- Thanks.
33:43 Let me jump in because I was going to try
33:45 to insert myself there.
33:46 I think to Maria's point, you talk about Entrapment's case
33:49 and the impact it had.
33:50 Just so I can kind of talk that through, as a B Corp,
33:53 one of our accreditation qualifications
33:56 is what's called the supplier assessment,
33:59 and through our supply chain as a B Corp business,
34:02 we are also audited in terms of the impact we have
34:05 and the influence we have in the supply chain.
34:07 So it's not just who you work with in the first place,
34:10 but then once you start working with certain businesses,
34:11 hoteliers, for example, trying to encourage them
34:14 to develop a sustainability plan or, you know,
34:17 ecological plan, so it's that influence piece you have,
34:20 and then measuring, as well,
34:21 is how much change we've impacted locally.
34:24 We look at economic distribution of the trips,
34:26 so how we're paying local suppliers
34:28 and how much money of a customer's money
34:29 is being spent in those local regions
34:31 versus back at head office.
34:33 So a couple of real strong qualifiers.
34:36 And for us, I think the strongest qualification at the moment
34:39 is looking at science-based targets,
34:41 so we're encouraging everybody else in the industry
34:43 to take kind of an initial audit where the business is at
34:46 and looking at the impact they have going forward
34:48 and trying to make some real clear targets
34:50 on how you're gonna progress in that area.
34:51 A lot of it has to do, to be fair,
34:52 with climate action and carbon assessments,
34:55 but does have to do with the supply chain, as well.
34:57 - Yeah, and how about, Matt,
34:59 not to put you on the spot without the research
35:02 in front of you,
35:03 but going back to kind of the values-based messaging,
35:07 are you able to determine,
35:10 put out an email that's talking about sustainability
35:12 and more values of your brand,
35:14 and does that garner a different type of engagement
35:17 than if you're talking about a price point or a destination?
35:19 Like, just in terms of the storytelling,
35:21 how do you find your B-core narrative
35:25 and the relationship you have with the communities
35:28 and how does that resonate in actual transactions?
35:31 - You know, it's really a question,
35:32 it's something we've been trying to work on,
35:33 how we quantify.
35:34 You know, we've tried some beta testing on certain,
35:36 as you mentioned, maybe an EDM to our customer base
35:38 on a certain story or initiative.
35:40 We don't have the straight numbers on that,
35:42 so not to put me on the spot,
35:43 we just don't have the numbers.
35:44 So we have to take kind of a holistic view in terms of,
35:47 we know that, for example, through our recruitment,
35:48 we believe we're an employer of choice
35:51 by that B-core certification.
35:53 We know that we typically have a balanced messaging
35:54 going out through our comms.
35:56 You might have generally a purpose-led initiative
35:58 and next month might be a sale, right?
35:59 On that, so we're trying to balance
36:01 the storytelling as well.
36:02 But from my personal experience,
36:05 I know that it does open doors with business partners
36:07 and the suppliers when you can lead that B-core.
36:09 What's really interesting, I think, for me,
36:10 is not everybody's really aware
36:11 what the B-core accreditation really stands for.
36:14 I think it's absolutely a really well-respected
36:16 and sign of compliance and social governance.
36:20 But ultimately, our next job for us
36:22 is to continue talking about B-core
36:23 so people do understand what the impact is
36:25 of a B-core company.
36:26 But for us, it was probably the most comprehensive
36:28 accreditation we could have,
36:29 which we think will get us there.
36:31 - Yeah, and no small lift.
36:32 It's a process that we've started to undertake on our end.
36:35 We've reincorporated as a public benefit corporation
36:38 over the last couple of years,
36:39 but now in the journey towards a B-core
36:43 and commend you again for the amount of work, time,
36:46 resources you go into that,
36:47 and certainly the buy-in across the company.
36:50 - Great, well, likewise, glad you're on the path.
36:51 It's a really interesting one.
36:52 What's really interesting about it,
36:53 and for anybody that's interested,
36:54 is it does push you along, right?
36:56 You have moments where you have to make
36:57 these kind of moral decisions or commercial decisions,
36:59 but ultimately you have this guideline that says,
37:01 okay, this is the standard,
37:03 and makes this a lot easier when you have that standard,
37:05 say, this is what we need to work towards.
37:06 So I certainly encourage it.
37:08 - Yeah, great.
37:09 And Ricardo, I'll come back to you
37:11 on that kind of question of quantifying
37:14 the approach, the investment,
37:16 and any indicators that you might have
37:18 or just general data research or intuition
37:22 that tells you that this is the right path to be going down.
37:25 - Well, I echo a lot what Maria said already.
37:28 I mean, every campaign and every initiative
37:30 that we have in the US market is a B2B or B2C
37:33 has its own PPIs.
37:35 And obviously, they vary from activity to activity.
37:39 But still, as Maria said,
37:42 we also still measure, of course, the number of guests
37:45 and the number of overnights
37:46 that the Americans spend in Germany.
37:48 But with that along,
37:49 we also measure the money that they're spending.
37:52 There's like a pool, a box of different measurements
37:56 that we all fill together.
37:57 We evaluate the length of stay.
37:59 One of our big goals to extend that length of stay
38:02 in order to, offset is the wrong word,
38:05 but in order to take away
38:08 the long transatlantic flights a little bit
38:11 or the impact of the long transatlantic flight.
38:13 So that is one of our goals.
38:15 We are measuring that very closely.
38:19 We measure our messages that we have in the campaigns
38:23 and how they resonate.
38:24 And of course, at the end, the travel behavior.
38:27 We spent quite a lot of money on research
38:30 that we put out in the markets every year
38:32 just in order to better understand the traveler,
38:35 their travel intentions,
38:36 and obviously with that,
38:39 the impact of our work and of our messaging
38:41 and how that reflects in the travel behavior.
38:45 So it's really a whole basket.
38:47 It's not one fits all,
38:49 but it's a whole basket of different indicators
38:51 that we use in order to come
38:53 to hopefully the better conclusion.
38:55 And as we already said, it's a path, it's a journey.
38:57 It doesn't stop.
39:00 - Yeah, yeah, that's great.
39:02 Thank you.
39:03 So I'm gonna change directions a little bit here
39:05 and Maria Jose, I'm gonna come back to you.
39:09 It's a big ask, obviously, to undertake all of this.
39:14 We're judging some of this on internal guidelines,
39:17 on external guidelines, on UNWTO criteria and the like,
39:21 but we're also seeing in the marketplace
39:24 way too many examples of greenwashing
39:26 and companies and destinations
39:28 that are not walking their talk.
39:30 So curious from your end in how you get over that,
39:34 potentially outside parties
39:35 that I know you've collaborated with
39:37 to help lend guidance and credibility to what you're doing
39:40 and also maybe help communicate
39:42 what you're doing to a greater audience.
39:44 So if you could talk a little bit about that,
39:45 that would be great.
39:46 - Yeah, you touch a very key point, Brian,
39:48 because alliances are key.
39:50 We cannot do this alone, right?
39:53 So we have great partnerships
39:55 like the World Wildlife Fund,
39:58 through which we have committed
40:00 to carbon neutral events in Colombia, for example.
40:03 Tourism Cares, what could I say?
40:07 Meaningful travel, what a great way to engage.
40:10 And actually, when we decided to bet on Tourism Cares
40:16 and to host that event,
40:17 we were clear that it was part of a bigger project,
40:22 of a macro approach to the community
40:26 and to the social enterprises.
40:28 I think for the tour operators,
40:31 having the social enterprises just feeds
40:34 and helps them be more creative
40:36 and offer something more meaningful,
40:39 something more impactful for their product
40:41 and their traveler as well.
40:43 So Tourism Cares is one way in which, for example,
40:45 when we were deciding which experiences
40:47 would make it first to the map,
40:49 we had 300 companies in Colombia
40:51 or social enterprises trying to go through, right?
40:54 15 were selected.
40:56 But there's other who are in the process
40:58 of becoming a part of it.
40:59 Then I would tell you that USAID
41:02 has been a great partner of Colombia as well.
41:04 We've had so much international cooperation through USAID
41:07 and actually the production of the guide
41:12 on nature that you're gonna share later,
41:15 which is a very robust guide
41:18 to interpret Colombia's biodiversity
41:20 was done with their support.
41:22 There's another on culture,
41:23 there's another on the Magdalena River,
41:25 there's another on butterflies of Colombia.
41:27 So we are producing a lot of content
41:29 to educate not only our course travelers,
41:34 but the people from Colombia.
41:37 Because remember that this is a country
41:39 who overcame an armed conflict
41:42 or is in the process of evolution
41:45 of getting to the other side of that.
41:50 But 40% of our country was not available to the travelers.
41:54 And it is now since 2016.
41:56 And guess what?
41:58 It is the people who lived in those areas,
41:59 the one who could really interpret our nature, our culture.
42:02 So we had to re-educate,
42:05 we had to reassess the offer of Colombia
42:09 very recently.
42:10 And yes, you mentioned the 20 year age of our destination.
42:15 It's actually 18, 19 years.
42:17 So we are very young destination
42:19 and that has also allowed us to become very quickly
42:24 and to not to evolve into that,
42:29 but to actually grow being that.
42:31 Because we are just very recently promoting actively
42:35 Colombia at an international level.
42:37 I would say also SIPO,
42:39 the Swiss corporation,
42:41 international corporation organization
42:43 has been also key in the work to generate the standards
42:48 for a more sustainable travel.
42:51 And definitely, USTOA, UNWTO, WTTC
42:56 on the cruise line sector,
42:59 which has faced so many challenges
43:04 to become environmentally friendly.
43:07 The Cruise Line International Association and the FCC
43:09 have been also a key part of helping us navigate this.
43:12 So definitely, yes, this is a village.
43:16 It takes a village to do this.
43:18 It takes the whole system and stakeholders of the industry
43:22 to look in the same direction.
43:24 - Maria, can I just jump in real quick?
43:25 'Cause I was lucky enough to be on a trip last year.
43:28 I think also to your question earlier, Brian,
43:30 about top down or where it needs to come from.
43:32 I mean, you're minister of tourism,
43:34 your government is also very strongly involved
43:36 in developing and funding and supporting
43:38 these promotion efforts to get more people
43:40 and also diversify their offerings.
43:42 So I think it's very much also a top down example
43:44 in Colombia.
43:45 - Yes, definitely.
43:46 Definitely, the government has been entirely committed
43:50 and then the private sector responded very well
43:52 just because also we have very strong private public,
43:55 let's say, report.
43:58 So especially ProColombia would be the perfect example
44:01 where we centralize all of that
44:03 because we work for the private sector
44:06 from the government perspective.
44:07 And so, yes, the vice ministry of tourism
44:10 within our ministry of trade tourism and industry
44:12 has led this with all the commitment they have.
44:17 And also we have created the tools for Colombia
44:19 to engage the private sector.
44:21 So for example, when you see all these trade shows
44:24 where Colombia is exhibiting the offer and the companies,
44:28 well, they had to go through a very, very thorough process.
44:31 And one of the things they had to,
44:33 that is like an enabling criteria
44:36 to have access to those spots in the trade shows
44:40 is to demonstrate how are they being sustainable?
44:44 Are they having the use of renewable energies,
44:47 waste management, elimination of single use plastics,
44:51 water reuse and alternative means of transportation?
44:55 You mentioned greenwashing, Brian, and it's not easy
44:59 because in order to make this a reality,
45:02 they have to be certified.
45:04 There needs to be an entity of control
45:09 that has all the accountability for that.
45:13 And so that's also coming,
45:15 the certification of Colombian suppliers
45:20 into sustainable practice at a broad spectrum.
45:25 We're doing whatever we can now to get them into the,
45:28 to shift all the mindset, the practices,
45:32 the services they're providing.
45:33 And they have been very generous and open to that.
45:35 I think in Colombia, there's a wide commitment
45:39 to sustainability at large.
45:41 - That's great.
45:42 And just a little more context and a little plug,
45:45 Matt and I both sit on the board of directors
45:46 of Tourism Cares, an organization, tourismcares.org.
45:50 If you're not familiar with, you need to be
45:52 if you're interested in this subject matter.
45:54 But the meaningful travel map that Maria Jose represented
45:57 really helps tour operators, travel advisors,
46:00 and increasingly consumers find these vetted,
46:02 authentic product that helps fuel impact
46:04 into the destinations around the world.
46:06 So currently anyway, it's free to upload
46:10 community-based projects that fit the criteria of it.
46:13 So encourage everybody to look into that further.
46:17 So absolutely the collaboration that sustainability
46:23 that's required to continue this path in sustainability
46:27 is something that's been really exciting
46:29 to see the travel industry specifically rally around.
46:33 But curious, Ricarda, maybe from your end,
46:36 do you feel like taking that values-based approach
46:39 does create any competitive advantages
46:41 for you as a destination?
46:43 - I think absolutely it does in so many levels.
46:49 And keep in mind, we're now talking very much
46:52 from a US-focused market, obviously,
46:54 but we act and Maria and her team, I'm sure as well,
46:58 all over the world.
46:59 So everybody comes with a different perception
47:02 of what sustainability means.
47:03 So I think transparency and explanation
47:06 of how we deal with this.
47:07 And I like your example a lot, Maria,
47:09 about your suppliers that have to certify
47:12 that they come in in order to participate with you.
47:15 We have something similar where we say,
47:17 if I would like to work with Intrepid
47:20 or I'd like to work with Apar and do a community,
47:23 you have to prove to me your sustainability agenda.
47:27 And I will be choosing the partners that I work with
47:30 based on their supply chain
47:32 and their sustainability agenda.
47:34 So I think, as you mentioned so many times already,
47:39 it's a journey, but as Chris explained to us so well,
47:43 the consumer comes back and says,
47:44 "Wherever I go says a lot about me."
47:47 So I think we need to align with these values.
47:50 We need to be showing our challenges
47:53 and our successes in all of that,
47:55 but it's important to stay true and honest
47:57 to our communication,
47:58 especially in the field of sustainability,
48:02 because at this point, still, when we look at our research,
48:06 it means very different things to an American traveler
48:09 as it does to a Chinese traveler or a European traveler.
48:12 And everybody has different approaches
48:14 and different demands on it that we as a destination
48:18 must and want to meet as well.
48:20 So it is a huge opportunity to differentiate ourselves
48:24 towards other destinations,
48:26 but it's also an obligation for us
48:29 and a responsibility to do that in the right
48:34 and honest and transparent manner
48:36 and in an understandable manner.
48:38 - Yeah, that's great.
48:39 So we're running out of time and I have 10 more questions,
48:42 so I'll have to get my editing pencil out here.
48:46 But one came in from some of the attendees
48:50 that I thought was a good one,
48:51 and I'll throw it out there, anybody can answer.
48:53 Have any of you had success attracting
48:56 a values-based traveler while also educating
48:59 or shaping the behavior of non-values-based travelers
49:02 at the same time?
49:03 - I mean, I can offer a real quick response to that
49:07 'cause I think we talked about this before, Brian.
49:10 Where some of the real work and the magic happens
49:13 is actually whilst you're on a trip.
49:14 So I would certainly suggest that different customers
49:17 will travel on a trip for different reasons, right?
49:19 Take any destination around the world
49:21 and it might be themed trip of some sort.
49:23 They'll be coming with different expectations.
49:25 And what really happens is on that trip,
49:27 when they have those moments,
49:28 we talk about maybe indigenous-led experience,
49:32 home-stayed cooked lunch, whatever it might be.
49:34 And they might even be aware of how special it is
49:36 until a leader even lays that experience back to them.
49:38 That's, again, when the light kind of goes on.
49:40 So absolutely, right?
49:42 People are coming in with these expectations, these values,
49:44 but where the real win is,
49:45 is kind of that conversion of people might not even be aware
49:48 or maybe somewhat defensive to it.
49:50 And then when they see it with purpose and action
49:51 and see it being fulfilled,
49:54 it really is quite a powerful moment.
49:56 - I can agree with that.
49:57 And maybe coming almost a little bit from the other angle,
50:00 we have situations where American travelers,
50:02 we all know as foreigners,
50:05 Americans love their air conditioning.
50:06 And they come to our country
50:09 and sometimes the air conditioning
50:10 is not quite to that standard
50:12 and to that cold standard as Americans are used to
50:15 and would like to have it.
50:17 And once they're being explained
50:18 that this is really an invite,
50:20 that this is not a lack of technology
50:22 or a lack of willingness,
50:23 but really an environmental aspect to say,
50:25 we don't want to cool it down X percentage more
50:29 than the outside temperature,
50:31 is then all of a sudden the response is incredibly positive.
50:35 But it takes that moment of transparency.
50:37 It takes that moment of explaining.
50:39 It takes that moment of openness
50:43 and willingness to communicate
50:45 also these little factors in destination.
50:47 - It's funny, we had a big pitch to a cruise line
50:54 that I will not share the name of,
50:57 but we at afar talk a lot about our audience,
50:59 our travelers who care.
51:00 And we got through this big presentation to them
51:04 with all the benefits and the opportunities.
51:07 And their immediate answer was,
51:09 "Well, our travelers don't care,"
51:11 which kind of took me back.
51:13 And I think that is something that we've certainly unpacked
51:16 some of the realization that they should care
51:20 and it's our job to teach them to care.
51:22 And if they don't care yet,
51:23 they will care in the years ahead.
51:25 So I think it's increasingly not something
51:29 that's nice to have it to layer in,
51:31 but leading with your values is something
51:32 that if you don't do,
51:34 you're gonna be leaving a lot of customers behind.
51:36 We're down to the wire here.
51:38 Speed round here.
51:41 If each of you guys in the closing minutes here
51:44 could give me your take on what is the future
51:47 of values-based storytelling and sustainability
51:51 as it relates to, again, communications with travelers?
51:54 - I would take that first if my fellow panelists allow me.
52:00 I would say storytelling and the stories of the communities.
52:06 I think that has the power to change.
52:09 I think tourism has the power to change behavior
52:12 just because if you visit somewhere else
52:14 and you see that something's done better,
52:15 you're gonna bring that habit back home, right?
52:18 But also getting to know the stories behind the people.
52:23 And I think that's the future of storytelling.
52:25 People want that human connection.
52:28 And besides visiting the stories, the historic sites
52:32 or doing a magnificent hike,
52:35 then you have all those experiences
52:37 and the human connection,
52:38 I think it's definitely the future of values-based mark.
52:43 - So well said, thank you.
52:44 - But I think it remains the core of our communication
52:49 and ultimately shaping and explaining our brand.
52:53 I think there is, it's not the future, it's the present
52:58 and it will maintain and it will prevail.
53:01 - Nice.
53:02 - Yeah, we're all aligned, Brian.
53:03 We just launched another series of about 100 different trips
53:06 which now feature indigenous-led storytelling experiences
53:09 on the trip.
53:10 And I think it's super powerful to hear the voices,
53:12 their stories from their perspective,
53:15 not just through our lens.
53:15 So I think storytelling and then somehow capturing that
53:18 and relating it to our customers is super important.
53:20 - I would say to round that,
53:24 because I see there's a pattern in all our answers.
53:26 I think that leading by example
53:28 is probably the future of values-based marketing.
53:31 And then when you share those stories,
53:33 then you find someone to admire
53:36 because of something they did better or great.
53:39 And so I think that has a very compelling power
53:42 to convince any consumer, to put it in a very frivolous way,
53:47 but you know, a potential traveler and definitely yes.
53:52 - That's great.
53:54 Well, a huge thanks to all four of you.
53:59 We know that travel is the best form of education
54:02 and done right and the way that you guys
54:06 are all advocating it to be done really can
54:10 and will change the United States
54:12 and certainly the planet for the better.
54:14 So thank you for your leadership.
54:15 Thank you for your time today.
54:18 I will be sharing a video recording of this
54:21 to all the attendees and other,
54:23 along with some of those links and examples
54:25 that we mentioned along the way.
54:27 Contacts for everybody.
54:29 I'm Brian, B-R-Y-N at AFAR.
54:31 If you have any direct questions,
54:33 but thank you guys again so much
54:35 for your time and participation
54:37 and look forward to seeing you out there again soon.
54:40 - Thank you for having us.
54:41 - Thank you very much.
54:42 Thank you, Brian.
54:43 Bye.
54:44 - Thanks Chris.
54:45 - Take care.
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