Episode 2100 - Cameron Hanes & Steven Rinella - The Joe Rogan Experience [Latest Podcast]
Transcript
00:00:00 Steve Rinella, Cam Haines, what's happening? Good to see you guys.
00:00:03 Yeah, thanks for having me out, man.
00:00:05 My pleasure. Cam, explain that ridiculous thing around your neck.
00:00:08 What? What are you talking about?
00:00:09 Oh, this?
00:00:12 That thing.
00:00:13 Oh.
00:00:13 Where am I? What camera am I?
00:00:17 Right there.
00:00:18 Yeah. So this is, uh, how badass is this? Solid gold mold of,
00:00:24 this is my first brown bear I killed with Roy. So they made a mold of this claw.
00:00:30 I had this just tanned hide laying around. I'm like, I gotta, we gotta, I don't know.
00:00:35 What's it going to do? Just lay there? So I'm like, I gotta have something.
00:00:38 And I took it to Skis Jewel Jeweler, which has been in Eugene for 104 years. So it's kind of a
00:00:44 cool little story. And they came up with this crazy necklace. So it's, oh, they wanted me to
00:00:49 tell you it's, uh, it's re, uh, what is it? It's not, not newly mined gold. It's
00:00:57 Reclaimed?
00:00:57 Oh, reclaimed?
00:00:58 Reclaimed. Yeah. So they're not ruining the planet to get it. So they want me to,
00:01:02 this is like reclaimed gold, but it's solid. And then there's six carats of rubies on there
00:01:07 and black diamonds. So, so the rubies, if this is a ridiculous thing you're talking about. Yeah.
00:01:12 Yeah. Okay. That was it. Yeah. So the rubies,
00:01:14 that's a lot of pawn shop wedding rings laid up.
00:01:16 I know a lot of failed marriages.
00:01:19 That's what that came from.
00:01:26 50 failed marriages right here. And the rubies look like blood. So what they did was, it's
00:01:32 pretty fucking dope. They made the rubies. If you could hold it up for the camera,
00:01:35 that people could see it. The rubies look like it's dipped in blood.
00:01:40 There's black diamonds too.
00:01:41 Oh, nice. That's a lot, dude. You're balling out of control, son.
00:01:45 I know. It's crazy. So the last I had that one from Scooby, the CH, he made it. I've never
00:01:50 worn it since, but the last time I had my son, uh, had an ivory from a bull I killed in Arizona.
00:01:57 He just put her on a leather strap and that was my last podcast. Uh, adornment. Now here we are.
00:02:04 Cody Garbrandt gave me one that has my dog's face on one side and the other side, it has the Jerry
00:02:10 logo. I'm like, either one of them is too weird for me to do an ivory. No, no, no. It's solid
00:02:14 gold. Oh, solid gold. That's an intricate carbon. Yeah. It's, it's so ridiculous.
00:02:20 Hey, no, there's no limit now. Do you got any jewelry? No, no, nothing.
00:02:24 No tattoos, no jewelry, man. They'll never, if I ever turn up in the Lake,
00:02:32 they won't be able to identify me. Do you have a rubber wedding ring? Do you wear one of those?
00:02:35 Well, I went from regular to Silicon to nothing. Yeah. I don't wear one anymore.
00:02:42 You ever thought about my wife doesn't wear one very often. Oh yeah. No, no wearing one.
00:02:47 I'd yell at my wife. Yeah. What the fuck are you going? Well, I know, but it's not like anyone
00:02:52 comes in. It's not like anyone comes in scams on me now, you know, beyond that I just smell like,
00:02:57 I smell like a married dude. I don't need that thing. I get it. I don't know. I just always,
00:03:01 I don't mind wearing it. And I love these silicone ones. These are great. You can lift
00:03:05 weights and I don't do, I do everything in them. I had a couple of accidents, the snag in it and
00:03:10 then arced it on a battery, the metal one. Yeah. And then I got on this thing and people were
00:03:16 sending us all these pictures too of what they call D gloving she thing. Yeah. Where you pull
00:03:20 it off, man. We got just people sending horrible pictures, like guys catching them on a ladder
00:03:26 rack on a truck and then like jumping down and that cured me forever. That metal one. Yeah. I
00:03:33 kept the metal one in a little baggy. I will wear the metal one. If I go to dinner with my wife or
00:03:38 if I'm doing the UFC, I'll wear the metal one. If I have a nice watch on, but I never wear it.
00:03:43 Other than that. Oh, that's cute. You put it on at dinner. I'm going to do that sometime. We do
00:03:46 date nights. You put your ring on. I'm going to start doing that. I always wear my red, my,
00:03:50 my rubber ring, but the silicone ring, but the, uh, the metal one I'll put out. We're going out
00:03:55 nice. I'm going to take that little tip, man. It's a good tip for date night. I had to use mine for
00:04:03 this. Where's your wedding ring? Wow. I still have it. It's assumed it's final form. I wear
00:04:16 it all the time. I'm wearing it right now. My buddy in Alaska, he had, uh,
00:04:20 he had his wife kept all of her jewelry in this little box and their house burnt down.
00:04:28 And he later went and found all that stuff. Like it melted into a blob.
00:04:31 So she, she took that blob and took it to a jeweler and had that blob turned into a
00:04:37 big old necklace. So it's just like this amorphous glob. Oh, do the glob with no,
00:04:44 Oh yeah. Like this amorphous glob of gold that she'll put on now. And then it was like all of
00:04:48 her stuff in this little pile that melt. Yeah. Melt together. Fucking hell of a fire. Oh yeah.
00:04:55 Oh no. It was for sure. And she didn't like wear it, wear it, but she would get out and be like,
00:04:58 Oh, here's all my little lump. She has all my stuff. Yeah. The jewelry thing is a weird thing.
00:05:07 People that get really into one of the things we're going to do for protect our parks. We've
00:05:10 been talking about doing this is get grills like the rappers where we're all going to wear grills
00:05:15 during the podcast. So we're going to get fitted with like diamond grills. They take a little
00:05:20 diamond dust and you smile like Paul wall and you have a full mouthful of diamonds. And I think it
00:05:27 looked bad-ass. That's my next move. Just fangs. I have a tooth that got knocked out and it's like
00:05:36 one of those calves. And one time we were drinking and I lumped when I was younger, we were drinking
00:05:42 and I was trying to open a, it used to be that company that made tequila that had like a sombrero
00:05:47 for a lid. And I was opening one of these bottles and broke that fake tooth off. And all night I'm
00:05:55 going on about how I'm getting a gold. It's gone, you know? And all night I'm like making a plan
00:06:02 talking to all this. And I woke up in the morning and looked in the mirror and I just wanted her
00:06:06 white or regular white tooth back. So bad. Yeah. So you opened it up with your tooth.
00:06:13 Yeah. It broke that tooth and then like got fired up about getting a gold one and no,
00:06:18 never did it. That'd been the closest thing I had toward jewelry and my gold tooth, but chickened
00:06:22 out. That would look sick. Yeah. I've thought about a gold tooth for brief moments, generally
00:06:28 while drinking, getting one of them. They have those or they just for a little diamond on it now.
00:06:33 Yeah. My old man told me that during the war guys would carry around dental picks
00:06:42 and he fought world war II. He said during the war, they would carry it around and they would
00:06:46 go and get all the, they'd get the gold out of German's teeth and save it up in a bag. And there
00:06:51 were certain guys who was just into it. I remember as a kid, I asked him like, Hey, would they ever
00:06:56 get it from an American? He goes, that'd be a good way to get shot, but they dig it out of there.
00:07:01 Which is a macabre business, man. Yeah. Very macabre.
00:07:06 They, people used to dig up graves to do that. Right. Yeah.
00:07:10 Well, the original fillings, the silver ones with those lead.
00:07:14 Don't know. Cause they used to have fillings that were metal. Like, and I remember people
00:07:20 were saying, Hey, those are fucking terrible for you. Like they figured it out years later.
00:07:24 It's like living your whole life with a fish and sinker in your mouth, man.
00:07:26 Right. Have you seen, you saw Shane Gillis last night? How funny is that dude?
00:07:30 Oh my, he's hilarious.
00:07:32 He's so funny. He had a bit about George Washington and it's one of the funniest
00:07:36 bits I've ever seen in my life. And George, it's a whole bit about going to the George
00:07:39 Washington museum because he's a real history buff. But one of the things was George Washington's
00:07:44 teeth. Like George Washington's teeth. His wooden teeth?
00:07:47 No, no, they weren't wooden. They were set in lead.
00:07:49 Was that right?
00:07:51 The, the, the, the fake thing that he had was set in lead. The top was horse teeth and the
00:07:56 bottom was slave teeth. So they'd have teeth pulled from his slave to make. Yes. Yes. And
00:08:04 then that thing was set in lead with springs on it. And that was George Washington's teeth.
00:08:10 I mean, how fucking crazy is that? But, but his whole bit is about how George Washington
00:08:19 had lead poisoning. He was a fucking maniac because he was at the front of the line.
00:08:24 Just fucking hack. You have to see the bit. It's very funny. Uh, folklore, notwithstanding
00:08:30 while Washington forced, uh, false teeth were not wooden. He obtained them instead from
00:08:34 horses, donkeys, cows, and human beings. According to his account books, 1784, emulating some of his
00:08:40 affluent friends. He bought nine teeth from unidentified Negroes, perhaps enslaved African
00:08:46 Americans at his beloved Mount Vernon. The price was 122 shillings.
00:08:52 Yeah. I mean, imagine eating with that fucking monstrosity of lead in your, and he, so he's got
00:09:00 that in his mouth all the time. He's getting lead poisoning. That's pretty intense. Pretty intense.
00:09:07 Having another dude's teeth in your mouth too, as well. Yeah. I had a cadaver bone in my jaw
00:09:12 for a while and you, and you'd get little, you know, little pieces of it. And you're always
00:09:18 spitting out little pieces of some guy, some other dude for a while. They took it out. Well,
00:09:25 no, it just heals up. Oh, so they drill a hole in there and they fill it full of cadaver bone.
00:09:32 Whoa. And I asked who the dude was, you know, they can't figure out who he was.
00:09:36 I have you're like all over your office or whatever. You're like
00:09:39 some little chunk of a guy. You don't know. My right knee is a cadaver ACL 10,
00:09:46 but it's not. It's not anymore. What happens is your body re pull up, proliferates it.
00:09:52 Yeah. So it just acts as a scaffolding and then your body just fills it in with its own tissue.
00:09:57 They ever give you info about the person? No, no. I just don't get me a Viking. Can't
00:10:02 we just fucking gigantic dude swinging a battle access whole life. The, they actually use the
00:10:08 Achilles tendon though. Cause it's much thicker than the original ACL. It's like 150% stronger
00:10:15 than an initial ACL. I would do that operation again in a heartbeat. I've always told everybody
00:10:20 I've had my knees done both ways. I have my left knee done with a patella tendon graft,
00:10:24 which was the most painful and took forever to recover from. And then I had my right knee done
00:10:29 with a cadaver graft. It was way easier. I went to a party five days after the operation with
00:10:36 no crutches, no nothing. I just put a brace on and walked and I was like, this feels fine.
00:10:42 I mean, it was obviously unstable, I guess it was weaker. So I put the brace on, but
00:10:47 I was, I could walk around like it was, it was not that big a deal. The first one,
00:10:53 I was in fucking agony for months, at least weeks. Cause they, they have to saw what they do is they
00:11:00 take your patella tendon, which is a very large, thick tendon. You don't need all of that. And
00:11:04 they take a strip of it and then they take it like peeling string cheese. Yeah, exactly.
00:11:09 And then they take a chunk of your kneecap and a chunk of your shin. So they pull that out and
00:11:14 then they open you up like a fish and then they screw it in on the top and screw it in the bottom.
00:11:18 And that's your new ACL. So it's a part of your body. So your body accepts it. It's not like a,
00:11:24 another person's tissue, which, you know, could be an issue. Your body might reject it. And then,
00:11:29 you know, it takes a long ass time before you can even get on your knees again. It took like a year
00:11:34 before it doesn't bother me to like be on my knees, you know, like if you're hammering something
00:11:38 or something, I couldn't get on that knee. It was just so fucking painful. Cause you know,
00:11:43 you got a hole there and a hole in the kneecap, but it all fills in eventually. Hmm. Well,
00:11:49 both of them are fine now, but if I had to tell people if they're going to get the operation,
00:11:52 get the fucking cadaver, get that dead dude. That's risky. Now, what if you get a vegan
00:11:58 that's vaccinated cadaver, your knees going to blow out like every day, every day,
00:12:05 like flimsy string cheese. Like when your bow string is getting frayed,
00:12:10 you're like, damn, should I replace this? Like when you're D loop is fucking vegan.
00:12:14 Yeah. Poor vegans, man. You want to talk about people that have been sold bill of goods.
00:12:24 Not very durable. Are they? That's not just that. It's like, there's so much propaganda
00:12:29 that that is good for you. And there's so much evidence that it's not. And this mindset that
00:12:34 these folk fucking people have where they're just like, they believe the China study,
00:12:39 they believe meat causes cancer. I've had conversations with people. We try to be
00:12:43 rational with them. Like if meat really caused cancer, do you know that 95% of the people on
00:12:48 earth eat meat? Like, well, look at all the cancer, but you have to look at all the other food.
00:12:52 Do you understand how epidemiology studies work? Like when they, you know, when they
00:12:57 have these arguments, no one ever takes it to this like rational conclusion.
00:13:02 Like what do you know how they work? The epidemiology studies? No. When they, when
00:13:06 they sell, like if they say there's been a correlation between high consumption of red
00:13:10 meat and cancer, Oh, people eat red meat five times a week are much more likely than people.
00:13:14 What are they eating with it? They don't take that into effect because it's not a real study.
00:13:20 It's bullshit. What they're doing is just trying to come up with some
00:13:23 biased interpretation of data that makes it seem more likely that meat is killing you.
00:13:29 I was trying to explain a correlation causation. All that's my kid the other night.
00:13:33 I was telling him about stuff like this, like, uh, education levels and divorce rates. Right.
00:13:40 I'm like, no, no one's going to untangle what it is, but you can look at these things and
00:13:45 see that there's something going on, but no one knows exactly what, right. Yeah. So with this
00:13:50 stuff like that, it's like, so did you eat a lot of meat? Uh huh. Yeah. It's like, okay, well,
00:13:54 yeah. And what, what form, where, what were you doing? It's not even what form it's what else
00:14:00 you eating. If they're only looking for red meat. So they're, they're asking you in these studies,
00:14:05 like how many days a week do you eat red meat? And then you say five and they say, well, we've
00:14:10 gathered up all the data and the people that eat red meat five days a week are much more likely to
00:14:14 have cancer. Yeah. But most people who eat red meat are eating burgers and they're eating burgers
00:14:19 from like Jack in the box where you get this bullshit bun. You get these fries are made in
00:14:25 seed oil. You probably Washington down with the Coca-Cola you're flooding your body with unnatural
00:14:30 levels of sugar and these carbohydrates that are all processed with folic acid and bullshit and
00:14:37 they're fucking terrible for you. And your gut is just inflamed and your whole body's freaked out.
00:14:42 And then do you smoke cigarettes and do you drink alcohol and do you live near a fucking power line
00:14:49 like this? Like there's so many factors that lead you to, if it was just like, I want to see a study
00:14:56 on people who eat wild game or grass fed beef and just fucking vegetables. I get those studies. Like
00:15:03 I bet those folks aren't getting like high instances of cancer. The cancer is like, there's a
00:15:08 lot of environmental factors. There's a lot of, a lot of genetic factors, a lot of things that lead
00:15:12 people to get cancer. It's not just what you eat, but when they say meat, like what else are you
00:15:20 eating? Why are you blaming me? Well, what I used to do is go to McDonald's. So yeah, I had red meat
00:15:25 because in the burger, two plain hamburgers, large fry, apple pie, a diet Coke, and a milkshake.
00:15:34 Just think about all that. And then they're like, do you eat a lot of meat? Yeah. Blame the meat.
00:15:41 Right. It was like, look at your, to your point, look at all that other shit, sugar and carbs,
00:15:46 that oil and that meal right there would probably kill you. And some people, it's the same people
00:15:52 going through McDonald's or Burger King or Wendy's every single day getting their go-to. Yeah. So
00:15:57 those are the people that you're asking about. Do you eat red meat? And of course they are, but
00:16:02 look it up. But yeah, I just got my blood test yesterday from my get it tested every once in a
00:16:07 while. And my numbers are phenomenal. I eat meat five times a day. I mean, I'm eating meat all day,
00:16:17 all wild game meat though. I found that people also have, I was talking to this the other day
00:16:23 with my buddy, Seth, where people also have a tendency to find that there's so much conflicting
00:16:34 dietary information that people also will find something aligns with their aesthetic.
00:16:39 Yeah. Right. Or that aligns with their political sensibility, meaning someone, you know,
00:16:47 if your general tendency is to be opposed to meat production, certain agricultural practices,
00:16:55 and you see an article where it says, you know, high meat diet correlates with cancer.
00:17:02 They're going to read that with great enthusiasm. Yes. Yeah. Because they're going to be like,
00:17:07 oh, this lines up with a bunch of shit. I already think, you know? And so when we were talking about
00:17:12 this, we're trying to, I was sort of teasing out, right? Like I like to have a garden. I like to
00:17:20 hunt. And I look with fondness upon data that suggests that eating like fresh veggies and meat
00:17:28 is really good for you. And it definitely feels good, but I'm sort of like, am I, you know what
00:17:33 I mean? Do I make the same mistake that I tease other people for making? Like if I read some
00:17:39 study that said, you know, eating mule deer is the best thing you can possibly do. I'd be like,
00:17:45 no, that's my kind of study. Yeah. Yeah. But it just makes logical sense. Yeah, it does.
00:17:50 You understand the building blocks of human beings and like what's necessary to promote,
00:17:56 you know, all the things that you need that only come from animal tissue, B12, collagen. There's
00:18:01 like, there's so much stuff that you can get from meat that you're just not going to get from
00:18:06 anywhere else. So whenever I see an athlete that starts going on a vegan diet, I look at it the
00:18:12 same way as like a snake handler. Like, okay, let's see how this plays out. You're going to get
00:18:16 bit. It's going to take some time. Plays out the same every time. It's like, I have a friend,
00:18:22 and he was like, my girlfriend's going to let me do threesomes. The moment I hear things like that,
00:18:27 the exact same feeling as like someone coming up to me saying, Hey man, I started making my own
00:18:36 bombs. Like, this is not going to work out. I know, I know a guy that went through something
00:18:42 like what you're talking about. You know, and I remember when he broke it out for me about like
00:18:48 some like deal he had arrived at in his marriage. It looks good on paper. I got kids. Never seen an
00:18:58 example. Once I can't tell you how I know, but I could just tell you that this is not the case.
00:19:02 Yeah. I mean, if he, if he just sketch it out right here, it might look all right.
00:19:08 Yeah. It's not, she's going to kill you in your sleep, bro. This is not going to work.
00:19:12 This is real. God, get out now. Yeah. But you know, the, the vegan diet thing,
00:19:18 it's just, it's so unfortunate that people have been, it's like, it's such a,
00:19:22 I get how you could come to this sort of idea where if you just eat vegetables,
00:19:30 then you're not as responsible for killing. But one of the real problems is, well, first of all,
00:19:36 there's the real problem of farming, you know, that especially industrial monocrop agriculture,
00:19:41 goddamn, they kill a lot of things to get that crop out. They kill, they kill everything that's
00:19:46 in the ground. When they're using the combines, they use people to kill groundhogs. They're
00:19:51 killing all the varmints and gophers and everything gets fucking killed. Right? We all know that
00:19:56 ground nesting birds, fawns get chewed up. There's a lot of things that happen, but then on top of
00:20:02 that, there's emerging evidence that plants have intelligence that not only do they have intelligence,
00:20:08 but they communicate through the mycelium in the ground and that they, they share resources.
00:20:15 Like they allocate resources towards plants that need it more. There's, there's, there's evidence
00:20:21 that they communicate with each other. Like for instance, like the Acacia tree, which
00:20:26 there's, there's trees in Africa where when giraffes eat them, if they're downwind,
00:20:34 the other trees that are downwind will start producing a potent chemical that makes their
00:20:41 leaves taste like shit so that they know that they're getting chewed on by, you know, Oh my
00:20:46 God, there's a draft in the neighborhood start tasting like shit. And so they release chemicals.
00:20:51 I mean, how insane is that? Not only is it that, but they have now shown that they can play
00:20:58 recordings of water, of insects eating the leaves. And if they play those recordings next to the
00:21:06 plant, the plant will start producing those toxic chemicals that make them taste bad.
00:21:12 So I've read that about willows. I never checked to see how like valid it is, but
00:21:16 that the willow will send root tendrils in the direction of the sound of running water.
00:21:22 That makes sense.
00:21:23 I know it's cool. Sorry, I kind of need to step over you, man.
00:21:26 Oh no, no. I was just saying, so it's, it's sound. And also you said before you said it was downwind.
00:21:31 Yeah. So it's, it's sent and sound.
00:21:33 It's, it's a bunch of things that they don't understand because they don't have noses.
00:21:37 They're like, they don't have ears. Like how, how does the sound of caterpillars
00:21:42 eating leaves change the chemical structure of these plants? Like, how are they knowing?
00:21:48 Okay. Time to let loose the poison. How are they, how are they getting it? Because they're downwind,
00:21:53 but it gets so bad that animals, some animals that try to eat them, they wind up starving to
00:22:00 death because they don't want to eat this stuff because it tastes that bad.
00:22:03 You're I can see where you're going with this is that sometime down the road,
00:22:07 there's going to be some tough decisions for people who are looking for general.
00:22:10 Yeah.
00:22:11 Well, like not wanting to harm creatures.
00:22:15 Yeah.
00:22:15 And when you have to face the fact that here's this like semi sentient communicative
00:22:21 plant that you're yanking, it just can't move quick and it does move. And if you watch high
00:22:29 speed images of, of plants growing, you know, and moving with the breeze, you're like, Oh,
00:22:34 it's just a different kind of movement. Like it's, it's clearly growing. Like it grows forever.
00:22:41 It's not even like another animal. It's kind of more fantastic. Cause it'll grow for a hundred
00:22:44 fucking years and keep growing. Or if you go to the, like some of those crazy, um, in Northern
00:22:51 California, there's trees that have been around for a thousand years. It's wild shit, man.
00:22:55 Yeah. Yeah. I'll, uh, like, you know, I'll hunt all manner of stuff.
00:23:00 And I used to work as a tree surgeon and with fell trees, but at our place in Southeast Alaska,
00:23:09 which is in the coastal rainforest, and we're in an area of old growth where our stuff's at,
00:23:14 um, I'm not like in no way condemning people to do, I would not be able to put a chainsaw in one
00:23:20 of those trees. Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? Like we, like everyone finds their sort of limits.
00:23:26 And when I'm looking at some tree, that's whatever, four or 500 years old. Yeah. I personally,
00:23:32 you know, I could kill a bear without thinking about it. Not without thinking about it, but yeah,
00:23:36 I can kill a bear and be real happy. I did, man. Just, I personally couldn't put a saw to one of
00:23:41 those trees. So people, you find these, you find these lines. Well, there's also the renewable
00:23:47 resource of bears. You know, if you're going to kill a bear and eat a bear that bears nine years
00:23:52 old, nine years is not that big a deal. Yeah. I mean, there was a, I was in Scotland recently and
00:24:00 they, they had this tree, like, this is the oldest tree that, that, you know, is in Europe.
00:24:05 And I was like, how old is this tree? And like, it's like a 5,000 year old tree. I'm like,
00:24:09 how is that possible? Yeah. That's incredible. See if you can find that, like the oldest tree
00:24:13 in Scotland, it was a crazy gnarled up looking fucked up tree. I was like, how old I might be
00:24:19 wrong with the age, but it was crazy old. And I was like, Whoa, like, how do you know, how do you
00:24:23 know how old this is? When you go to Europe, Scotland was amazing. I took this trip with my
00:24:28 wife and we went to visit these sites where they have these stone circles that are older than
00:24:33 Stonehenge. And they're like right in front of this dude's house. Like this dude has a house.
00:24:39 And then there's a small street, like a two lane street, 5,000 years old.
00:24:43 They have 5,000 a year.
00:24:46 Google says two to 3000 years old. Okay. So the science says 3000. Well,
00:24:53 back when they made that sign, what kind of fucking carbon dating did they have? You know,
00:24:57 some dude said, man, that tree must be 5,000 years old. Put that on the side.
00:25:02 Look at the image of it. That's what it looked like. See the image of it to the right, Jamie,
00:25:05 to the slightly to the left of that. Yeah, that's it. That's it. That's exactly what it looked like.
00:25:10 That one's a thousand year old North downs in Surrey. So that's in England.
00:25:15 Yeah. Fuck that ugly tree. That tree looks dope.
00:25:18 It looks dope. That's not the tree Steve was talking about.
00:25:22 I think they look cool. That tree looks like a gnarly old man.
00:25:26 Yeah. Like some old dudes. I'll tell you what it was like when we rode horses everywhere.
00:25:32 Hey, so Steve, I was thinking, what's the difference between
00:25:38 a person who you said you wouldn't like to cut that tree or you wouldn't.
00:25:42 But like I said, I don't say that to cast judgment on a logger that does. I'm just saying I personally.
00:25:54 No, I understand that. But then there's some people who take that to, I'm just trying to,
00:25:58 I don't know, reason with myself because around here we've had people chain themselves to trees.
00:26:04 Sure. You know what I mean? So would you do that?
00:26:07 No. So that's what I'm saying. It's like, I mean,
00:26:10 no, I said the passion's not that right. There's a look that the passion's there,
00:26:14 but it's not that deep. Right. Yeah. It's just, it's weird thinking about,
00:26:18 I understand what you're saying. And I totally get that. I would probably, I think I've never
00:26:22 cut down a tree. I've never been a tree surgeon, but I would probably feel the same
00:26:26 about maybe a four or 500 year old. I might be like, you know, man, Cam, you cut it down.
00:26:30 When I was in Northern California, I don't want to have to deal with any repercussions.
00:26:35 Right. We were in the Redwood forest and there's a tree that you drive a car through.
00:26:39 Yeah. Yeah. Cut a hole in the tree. And I was like, why did they do that?
00:26:43 But it was like 1920 or something when they did it. Yeah. They didn't care about anything.
00:26:47 They didn't give a fuck. But when you're around those trees, they're so big, it's so crazy how
00:26:53 wide they are. And when they're gone, that's it. You just chopped down something that took
00:26:58 thousands of years to grow. So you can make what a fucking table. Yeah. You know, there's a lot
00:27:03 of trees that are like the 20 years old go kill those. Yeah. It's a tough one, man. It's tough
00:27:08 on looking at those trees, but it does seem like, uh, you know, some of those trees you look at,
00:27:15 it's like, you're looking at, it almost seems like some approximation of God, you know, and look at
00:27:19 some of those old trees, man. Just astounding. Yeah. Yeah. We that's in Oregon. That was a big
00:27:24 thing because we had the spotted owls in late eighties basically, and spotted owls lived in
00:27:30 old growth. So we had the, the whatever timber activists or who are those people?
00:27:37 Spiking trees. Yeah. And, or living in them. They'd like, well, we live here or we chain
00:27:42 ourselves to him, but they were up there. And so the loggers would get there to cut, you know,
00:27:45 do their cut. And there's people living in the trees. Yeah. That one gal spent her name was like
00:27:50 Joe's probably had her on the show. It was like butterflies. Right. But I mean, I guess my point
00:27:58 is it's like, you got people, whatever their passions are, they will go to the ends, you know,
00:28:02 like we defend hunting till the end. Right. That's our passion. That's what we love. But yeah, it's
00:28:08 like all these different factions of people that, man, you'd have a hard time saying you're wrong
00:28:12 and believe in that. Cause that's just what they believe. That's their passion. So it's like
00:28:16 finding that middle ground. You know, the one thing that I never really thought of until I
00:28:20 started hunting was the spiritual aspect, the hunting that's it's an, it's a part of it that
00:28:28 it's almost indisputable when you experience it. Like when you first experience it,
00:28:36 when you first start eating an animal that you like the first time you ever took me hunting
00:28:40 when we were in Montana. And I remember when I was eating that mule deer, we're sitting over the fire
00:28:45 and I was like, this is so different than any meal I've ever had in my life. It's so different. I
00:28:52 feel so connected to this animal. I know how difficult it was to do this. I know how insane
00:28:58 their life is that this is this wild creature that is 100% going to die soon, no matter what,
00:29:05 if it's next year or the year after or the year after that, it doesn't have much time left.
00:29:10 And if you can move in while, you know, dip your toe into the wild and extract that thing out to
00:29:18 me, that was like, Oh, this is the best way to eat meat ever. This is 20, 30 times better than just
00:29:25 getting a steak from a store. I remember when we were sitting around the fire and you're like,
00:29:29 what do you think? I'm like, I'm doing this forever. Do you remember that? What year was
00:29:33 that? I don't remember that specific conversation. That was 12 years ago. Oh, was it really?
00:29:36 12 years ago. 2012. Okay. And then you both hunted in 2014. Yes. Okay. So, so did you kill?
00:29:43 I have two people in this room that introduced me to hunting and that's our Montana mule deer.
00:29:48 That's him. That's him. That's the nose bones. The ones out there. Yeah. Well,
00:29:54 he's missing this too. You need to shake Jamie down. He might have a pocket full of those.
00:29:59 I think they, they boil it out too long. I think. Is that what it is? Yeah. I always go back in,
00:30:04 but anyways, sorry. But that guy is very special to me. That guy's very special. First kill. And
00:30:09 I remember when we were eating him over the fire, I was re sorting my schedule. I was like, okay,
00:30:16 how many times a year can I hunt now? Okay. How much, how long is it going to take to eat
00:30:19 them the first year? First time, right away, eating it over the fire, like right away. I was
00:30:24 like, oh, I'm doing this forever. This is what I do now. Like right away. I was like, okay, now I
00:30:30 got to really research like calibers and rifles and how to do this. And I do that. I got to up my
00:30:35 cardio. I got to start hiking Hills. I started thinking all these things like immediately.
00:30:39 I started planning out. Okay. Every, I got to hunt every four months. Like what can you hunt?
00:30:43 I got to get pigs. Cause then you can hunt them all year round. I immediately, my brain starts
00:30:47 spinning. Like, okay, this is what I do now. I was like, okay, I found it. I've taken quite a
00:30:51 number of people on their first hunt trips. I've never had, I mean, probably dozens,
00:30:58 maybe dozens either way. I've never had any of them regret it. Like no one's ever said,
00:31:03 I wish I hadn't done that, but I would say the majority, definitely a good, strong majority did
00:31:11 not pursue it. Didn't regret it. Glad they did it, but didn't make it part of life.
00:31:17 What's difficult. It's difficult. You know? And that's the thing I think that
00:31:21 is the impediment for a lot of people. It's like time consuming. If you don't have someone like you
00:31:27 or someone like you to teach them, like I have friends that are like, Hey, I want you to take
00:31:31 me hunting. Like, Oh Christ, I don't have the time. I want to go bow hunting. I'm like, do you
00:31:35 know what you're saying? Do you know what you're saying? Like, I just want you to come with me
00:31:40 one day and watch what I do fucking every day where I'm out. I'm going through that with my
00:31:46 kid where my older kids, very interested in bow hunting, but it's just, I'm like, man, you have
00:31:52 to appreciate the level of discipline dude, that you got to shoot. Right? Like I'm perpetually
00:31:59 rusty. Like you can't be like me. And, and I actually pulled the plug on them this year where
00:32:04 I said, if you shoot every day, like he'd been shooting throughout the summer. I said, if you
00:32:10 shoot every day prior to this week, we're going to go bow hunt. I said, why don't you shoot every
00:32:14 day prior to the week? And he didn't do it. And I said, we're not going. And I'll see if next year
00:32:18 that impacts them, but it's like the discipline. It's unfortunate, but I think, you know, there's
00:32:24 no way to teach someone that there's no way to really like get it into their head, how hard it
00:32:30 is unless they're in the field and they're drawing on an animal. And then they realize like, unless
00:32:36 there's some ways to mitigate that, like you've had Joel Turner on, which you have, you've had
00:32:41 him on, right? You never had Joel Turner on the shot IQ guy. No, I'd like to, but no, I got to
00:32:45 connect. Do you have his number? Do you know, but I'm familiar with that. He's been recommended by
00:32:50 many people and guys I work with are familiar, but I haven't had him on. He's absolutely got,
00:32:56 and you've recommended him to, he's got a, there's a thing that happens when you're in a high
00:33:01 pressure situation that I recognize from martial arts, from a lot of other things where you do not
00:33:08 have full control of your faculties and your body is operating on anxiety and adrenaline.
00:33:13 And when it's completely unique, like a bow hunting thing where you have hours and hours
00:33:20 and hours and hours and hours of preparation and thinking about it for seconds of action.
00:33:25 And it boils down to this one movement where you're like, yikes, if you don't have a strategy
00:33:31 for managing your mental state while that's happening, the odds of you flinching or moving
00:33:37 or doing something stupid are really, really, really high. And Joel Turner went through that
00:33:43 for like fucking 15 years. He like couldn't kill an hour choking. And then when he became a SWAT
00:33:51 instructor, when he was, you know, he's on a SWAT team. So he he's literally like, he was telling
00:33:56 me this one story where he had to shoot this guy that was holding a young girl hostage. And like,
00:34:01 I think it was with a weapon, I forget, a knife or something. And so he has a headshot while this guy
00:34:08 is holding onto a girl. And he had to figure out like, what are the, what is the mental process
00:34:16 that allows people to flinch and panic during these moments? And he realized there's a difference
00:34:22 between open loop systems and closed loop systems. And the open loop system is something like
00:34:27 swinging a baseball bat. Like once you start swinging, you're just swinging. You're just,
00:34:33 you know, you're swinging. And unfortunately with a lot of people, that is the initial reaction.
00:34:40 They just go. Yeah. I get it. Like the final thought you have is that you're going to swing
00:34:44 the bat. Yeah. I don't know if a professional, I don't know if a like friend of mine's a,
00:34:49 you know, a real home run hitter. I don't know if he would agree, but in my mind, yeah, it's like,
00:34:53 you've decided to swing and everything else is just nothing. Well, you're not going to stop it
00:34:57 in the middle of the swing. You're not, you're not thinking about, oh, I'm going to go a little
00:35:00 higher, a little lower. Right. It's like punching, punching when you're, when you're fighting,
00:35:05 punching comes, it's an automatic movement. Like you slide back and you don't even realize what's
00:35:10 happening. You're already punching and you're not going to stop that punch once you've launched your
00:35:15 shoulder forward. And when you are using his system, he has you talking to yourself through
00:35:24 every step of it. So you're always conscious. So it's always a closed loop system. You're
00:35:29 in complete control at any step you could stop. And he's like, sometimes the best shot is a shot
00:35:35 you don't take when you realize you're shaking, you're holding too long, let down. That's the
00:35:40 best decision you could ever make. If you get your mind to like, just shoot now, just go now.
00:35:45 Now I've seen people, there's so many videos online. I've been there. Yeah, everybody has,
00:35:53 but there's a way to mitigate that with this. So it's not just the practice. The practice is great.
00:36:00 You have to practice. I practice constantly, but you also should have a pre-shot routine.
00:36:05 And I actually use cams pre-shot routine when I was in Utah. Cause I remember cam had this thing
00:36:11 where he's saying, keep the pin on them, keep the pin on them. And you say that while you're
00:36:14 shooting, keep the pin on them, keep the pin on them. I just know if I keep the pin there,
00:36:18 it's got arrows going to hit good. What happens is people drop their bow arm a lot. I mean,
00:36:23 that's what happens a lot is that drop that bow and they hit too low. So if you keep that pin
00:36:27 there, both. Oh, you're saying, be conscious of keeping the pin on it through the shot.
00:36:34 Not moving. Cause the moving thing is like, Oh, I hit it. Oh, I hit it.
00:36:38 Wow. Things go left, right. Fucking three, four feet. You're like,
00:36:42 how, you know, where people realize that they have a problem is after they make a
00:36:51 shitty shot and they're just like, why didn't I practice?
00:36:54 [inaudible]
00:37:02 It's more, why didn't I listen to Joel or Joe or whoever? Because then that's,
00:37:15 then it's real because we have a tendency of making things work out in our head the way we
00:37:21 want them to. And then when it doesn't work out like that, because we haven't put in the time
00:37:25 where we don't have a process down and maybe you hit the animal bad, maybe you miss, maybe,
00:37:29 you know, just shit the bed. And then you're just like, God, what is my, what am I doing?
00:37:34 But up until then, you were like, you're the baddest person ever.
00:37:37 Yeah. Of course I'm going to make a great shot. That's interesting thing between
00:37:42 in talking to people that blow a shot with a rifle and talking to people that blow a shot with a bow,
00:37:48 people will blow a shot with a rifle and they'll assure you they did everything right.
00:37:53 No one blows a shot with a bow and comes away saying, I don't know what happened. I did
00:37:58 everything right. Cause you fall into like, you fall in, like you're saying, you fall into this
00:38:03 like despair and guilt and you're trying to review in your head. I've like, I've accidentally landed
00:38:08 on a thing. It's not fail safe, but somehow when you say like, keep the pin on them, I've landed
00:38:13 on this thing. Like, like, remember your elbow, remember your elbow. And if I remember to like,
00:38:18 cause when I'm shooting, just practicing, I'm always, there's always this thing of like,
00:38:22 like sort of consciously being aware of having my elbow raised and that makes everything fall
00:38:27 on the line. And so if I'm, if I know I'm going to get a shot and I could think like,
00:38:30 if you'll do the part, the elbow, if you do the part and then that elbow goes up and then
00:38:35 everything else sort of like takes care of itself, you know, and then I'll, if I take a shot, I might
00:38:40 review in my mind, like I never did that thing. I never did the elbow deal, you know, which drives
00:38:46 all the other actions. It's imperfect, but it's similar to what you're talking about.
00:38:50 There's something about staying in a conscious state and being able to maintain your composure
00:38:56 during that high pressure situation, maintaining a conscious state where you're talking yourself
00:39:02 through it and not just, just being a reptile, you know, just people blackout, kind of blackout.
00:39:08 They really do. I don't know what happened. I don't know what happened. Yeah.
00:39:12 I think you use it up. Maybe I felt that if anything, um,
00:39:16 just a gradual dissipation with age and experience, perhaps experience for sure. I'd be curious if
00:39:23 some, if some dudes started like a, some dude at 60 years old, you know, some dude at 60 years old
00:39:31 started bow hunting. Are they going to wig out like a 20 year old on their first shot?
00:39:37 Depends on who they are. Is there something that's like their brains already chilled out?
00:39:42 I think there's a part of your brain that like, you know, there's a, there's a part of your brain
00:39:46 that Andrew Huberman talks about. I forget what the exact, uh, yeah, that when you force yourself
00:39:52 to do things you don't want to do, when you force yourself to get up in the morning and run in the
00:39:56 cold and get in the cold plunge and all these different, it literally grows larger. This part
00:40:01 of your brain that is able to do things that are uncomfortable that you don't want to do actually
00:40:06 grows larger. And it seems to be that that's a muscle, just like every other muscle, not a muscle,
00:40:11 but a thing that is more robust with use. And if you're a 60 year old guy that just been working
00:40:18 in an office and listening to the boss and driving home and you know, there's no stress,
00:40:24 no, no, like not stress, but no high pressure decision-making in the moment choices that you
00:40:32 have come accustomed to managing and, and, and dealing with and negotiating. If you're,
00:40:38 if you're a person, if you're a person that's like fucking gone to war, you know, maybe you've
00:40:42 had like some crazy high pressure job and you're 60, you probably got fucking ice water running
00:40:47 through your face by the time you're 60 years old, you're like, you've seen it all. So it depends on
00:40:51 the human. But for most people that like, you know, like there's Scott, like Derek Wolf, you
00:40:57 met Derek Wolf on your podcast. I mean, you're talking about a guy that like is fucking played
00:41:02 professional football at the highest level. And even he says it's the most exciting shit that
00:41:07 he's ever done. Like I've told cam like so many times, dude, I've done a lot of shit.
00:41:11 I've fought, I do stand up comedy. I do so many live things that are like high pressure.
00:41:17 Nothing is like elk hunting. There's nothing like that moment when you're drawing. And that thing
00:41:23 is like in the field and it's, it drops his head down at 50 yards and start eating and you draw
00:41:28 back and you got the, you're like, is this happening? Is this really going on right now?
00:41:32 It's so pressure filled. It's, it's so, it's such a novel and unique moment that unless you have a
00:41:39 bunch of those moments, like I'm at the point now, you know, uh, 10 years into bow hunting,
00:41:46 where when I draw on an animal, I can keep my shit together. And now to me, it's just like
00:41:53 making sure I'm steady and the shots good. There's nothing weird going on. There's no weird wind or,
00:42:00 and I just go through my process and I'm very confident now, but it's numbers. It's numbers.
00:42:05 Like if you, I always tell people like the more things that you can shoot, the better. And you
00:42:10 could shoot pigs, you shoot things that people have to kill. You know, if you can go to Lennai
00:42:14 where you can get like multiple shot opportunities on access deer, that kind of situation, that's for
00:42:20 me, the difference between like how I feel in September during elk season and like some years
00:42:28 where I feel great and super confident, it's always that I went on a couple other hunts.
00:42:32 Yeah.
00:42:32 It's always like, so you get that experience. I used to feel fighting too. Like if I got like
00:42:37 a couple of times I got injured and I couldn't fight for like six months and then I'd fight,
00:42:42 but it was almost like it was like brand new again. Like when I'd be in there, like, Whoa,
00:42:45 this is crazy. The first time you see people fight, they're in a panic. It's like, you can't
00:42:51 believe it's actually happening. You're like, are you ready? And you're like, yes. You know,
00:42:55 and they get out there and if you're an experienced person, it's one of the reasons why like
00:43:01 champions have such a massive advantage. They have such a massive psychological advantage because
00:43:07 they're the champion. And they'd be like, you'd see guys and they would fight Mike Tyson. They
00:43:11 had already lost by the time they got in there. They look at him like, Oh my God, what is happening?
00:43:16 Is this real? Like their whole world was like that big. And they were just in a full like panic
00:43:21 and they just couldn't fight. You know, that's, that's kind of similar to how people feel bow
00:43:25 hunting elk for the first time. I mean, that bull's coming in. Yeah. There's they, they lost
00:43:30 yeah. When that bull's coming in and it's coming to 20 yards, it's just like, there's, there's a
00:43:36 chance. But I remember the first time we had your first bow hunt, we were in Colorado. The two bulls
00:43:42 were coming in on this little tight Creek. We were in this little draw coming in at the same time.
00:43:46 And they were just bugling and it was insane. Not even big bulls, but just coming in and closing
00:43:52 down on us. And you remember that moment? You were just like, it was unbelievable. All the
00:43:58 shit that you've done, this high level crazy stuff that there was nothing that compared to that.
00:44:03 The screaming, when you're there and they're like 30 yards doing that, like the sound is so nuts.
00:44:11 Like if you're not a person that's ever been around elk calling when they do it, when they
00:44:16 bugle, it sounds like Lord of the rings, man. It's such a crazy sound. It's so crazy. It'd be
00:44:23 intimidating if you're not ready for it. There's a thing Derek Wolfe told me when you're talking
00:44:29 about the stress and competitive stress, he told me a thing that had never occurred to me before.
00:44:34 It's about getting in a ring to fight Mike Tyson or whatever is in his thing. You're also,
00:44:41 there's a thing where you can get your star struck. Yeah. Like picture you're an incoming player. Okay.
00:44:46 And you're real young. And all of a sudden you're like, hold on, I'm supposed to go tackle Tom
00:44:50 Brady. Yeah. I've been watching, right. I've been watching my, through my whole, like coming up
00:44:57 through high school, coming through college and also like, wow, that's him. You got to sort of
00:45:05 put that on your head. You're like, Hey, tight. Let me get his interview. Then I'll come, let me
00:45:10 get his autograph. Then I'll come back and then I'll tackle him. Yeah. Like, yeah. I mean the
00:45:15 goat you've heard how, you know, he's the best ever do it. And then all of a sudden it's like,
00:45:19 almost like, you know, I'm a big fan. Like to meet you. Sorry for having to do this.
00:45:23 But isn't that also the case with bow hunters where like you've been hunting your whole life,
00:45:27 hoping to see a two, a 200 inch buck. And then one day you're in the mountains and this mule deer
00:45:33 steps out. You're like, Oh, this is it. Cause you're imagining taking the photo, smiling on
00:45:39 Instagram. You're imagining you see this wide mule deer buck. Like this is crazy. This was a real
00:45:45 one. I can make this happen. You're like, everything is just full panic. Clay Newcomb just
00:45:51 did a bear grease episode about a guy, a poacher. And he interviews the guy at length. And this guy
00:45:59 played softball on a army base. They had like a athletic complex. And a couple of times he sees
00:46:06 this giant buck and the people were aware of this giant buck. And he was trying to figure out if
00:46:10 it was possible to kill it as he calls it, kill it right or kill it legal. And one day he just
00:46:16 happens to have his bow in his car and sees it not anywhere he's supposed to hunt. And the way
00:46:22 he describes it, he describes it like he was out of his mind, out of his body and he shoots it.
00:46:28 And the minute it falls over, he thinks you'll never get away with this. God, but he looked
00:46:34 not only like, not only lost. I can't, I think he's in Missouri, Missouri. So was he in the wrong
00:46:39 unit or is he on a military? He was on a military base where you're not even, you can't hunt.
00:46:44 Oh, wow. And not only like losing, not only losing your mind as you're drawn back, he lost his mind
00:46:51 in the whole thing, getting his bow out of his thing and kills the buck. And then he,
00:46:59 the minute he kills it, it occurs to what he's done. So what did he do? It's a whole episode.
00:47:06 It's two episodes about just horrible. I mean, I, you gotta walk a real fine line. I mean,
00:47:13 he did like, as he admits, you know, I mean, he did, he did a criminal act and it's not like
00:47:18 sympathetic or the criminal act, but it's a, it winds up being a story of the unraveling of
00:47:22 someone's life about just a mistake. But, but being that, that, that sort of lost for that
00:47:29 animal. Right. I guess we should be thankful that Derek Wolf never saw Tom Brady out of pizza. Then
00:47:34 you know what I mean? Could just fricking light them up. Sack them.
00:47:40 Yeah. Right. I got him. I got him. He's a burger King. He is fucking go for it.
00:47:46 I lost my mind. It was Tom Brady. I just fucking, I don't know. I've just been programmed to tackle
00:47:53 him. Yeah, no, but that, I think I was thinking back to on, you said when you're not ready for
00:48:00 it, my, my first two year, my first year, Beau, honey, my first year rifle, and I was 15 when I
00:48:04 was right behind him. We did this drive. We used to do drives, right? Not really hitting pans,
00:48:12 but not far from it. So you send the guys and then put the, whoever the shooters on the stand.
00:48:17 Could I ask you real quick, did you call them? What were the names you use? We have,
00:48:21 we debate this all the time. Who was okay. What were the terms you use pushers sitters?
00:48:27 Yep. That was it. Okay. Use pushers. It's very regional or on the stand. Like
00:48:34 get, yeah, you're, you're on the stand and then we're pushing to you. Okay. Yeah.
00:48:38 But, so I was there had this let's see, 300 Savage, just old gun, but 15 years old doing
00:48:48 the push. Okay. Go here. I didn't even know if I was in the right spot. I'm just like, God,
00:48:52 I'm by myself. Just don't know anything. And then all of a sudden I look up and here's this buck
00:48:57 giant mule deer. I don't even know how big it was, but it looked and I was just like,
00:49:04 I was like, no clue. I don't know. I never probably never saw it in the scope. It was like,
00:49:11 probably it seemed like from me to you. And I was just like, had no idea what happened.
00:49:15 Was I prepared to kill that buck? Hell no. So I killed a spike buck like the next day.
00:49:21 Right. And that's how it works. You're not ready for a giant. Right. Then same thing with bow
00:49:26 hunting. First day, bow hunting, this giant bull comes out seven by six Roosevelt first day. I'm
00:49:32 like sit on kneeling in this logging road. Felt like my arms were asleep. They're tingling. I'm
00:49:38 like, I didn't know if I could draw this bow back. He's broadside head to the right, but to the left.
00:49:44 And I shoot at, it's like right at 40 yards and I missed behind his butt. So I'm off like six feet
00:49:52 at 40 yards and then end up killing a spike bull. So it's just, it's, you're just not ready for
00:49:58 those, the giant, you know, but that's where I think Joel Turner comes into play because I don't
00:50:03 know if he could have helped me. I don't know if he could have helped me at that time. He'd had to
00:50:08 been like, give me that bow. Yeah, it probably wouldn't. He probably weren't totally ready for
00:50:14 that at that moment. But if you have a certain level of proficiency and a certain amount of
00:50:19 experience in mitigating high pressure situations, then I think you could get through it.
00:50:24 I see. I've been teaching a lot of people to shoot a bow for the first time on the lift run
00:50:28 shoot show that I do. Joel Turner isn't going to tell them anything. I mean, it's like, there's so
00:50:34 many basics you have to get before that. But as you said, once you get that routine down and you're
00:50:39 kind of more seasoned, then I think that can, that closed loop open loop, then that would make more
00:50:45 sense. It was so attractive to me when I first started shooting a bow. I was like, God, there
00:50:50 are so many of you get lost in this. Like there's so much going on just in your yard. We're just
00:50:58 shooting at a target. There's so much mental and physical and there's so many things that have to
00:51:04 align. Like I have a checklist that I have on my phone that before I go hunting, like when I'm on
00:51:10 the plane flying to wherever I'm going, I look at my notes on my phone and I go over my checklist
00:51:16 and I bounce it around my head. I have a shot. Not like boots. So I got all that, that I'm
00:51:24 terrible with too. I just stuff everything in there. I'm like, I think I got it all in there.
00:51:27 I didn't really need to organize it. Like if I was going to go on like one of those way more than you
00:51:32 need a hundred percent, if I was going to go on one of those backpacking mountain hunts, where
00:51:36 you're carrying your whole camp on your back, you walk it in for fucking 20 miles. I'd be the guy
00:51:40 that has like the 80 pound pack because I threw an extra batteries and extra broad heads in case
00:51:45 that happens and stuff in the bushes. You know, meanwhile, like Adam green trees has been doing
00:51:52 it forever. That motherfucker saws his toothbrushes in half to cut weight. You got it down to a sign.
00:51:57 You would do that one time, one time. Yeah, exactly. That's how you learn that. Everybody's
00:52:02 learned, learned that. So my process for packing is just fucking shove it all in there. And mostly
00:52:07 likely I always have two range finders and two binos in case I brought the drop something. And
00:52:13 you know, remember that time we were hunting in Canada and I broke my rest, my rest snapped,
00:52:17 but I had a whisper biscuit. I was ready. I was like, ah,
00:52:20 he was being obsessive out there with
00:52:24 his rest, just like wrenching on it for hours and changing and doing all this
00:52:32 and end up stripping something out. Cause he's like got too crazy on the rest.
00:52:36 Well,
00:52:46 I was fucking up on it. It was fucking up. The rest wasn't dropping all the way. And so like my
00:52:58 arrow was catching it. Like the fletchings were catching and I'm like, what the fuck is going on?
00:53:03 And then I was like, Oh, look at my rest. It's like slightly up above the riser. Like, goddammit.
00:53:08 So I'm fucking good. Oh no. But whisker biscuits, man. I know they take a couple of seconds away
00:53:19 from your fever. So boy, that was fucking easy to tell. And yeah, it's a lot less, uh, a lot less
00:53:23 little stuff to go wrong. I know. So high level hunters still use whisker biscuits just because
00:53:29 they don't want to fuck around with anything. It's like for that hunt is perfect. You're going
00:53:32 to be shooting at 10 or 20 yards, you know, or a, or a whitetail hunter they're shooting at 20 yards.
00:53:38 So if you're going to be shooting long distance, a fletch going through with all that contact to
00:53:43 the, through the whisker, basically that's going to impact long distance. Well, apparently really
00:53:48 impacts it when you have helical. Yeah. Right. So if you have straight, so helical for people
00:53:54 that are listening, there's a, an angle that the fletchings are placed in that accentuates this,
00:54:01 the spinning of the arrow, which makes it more accurate. And you know, that's what you want.
00:54:06 Right. So some people don't use that. They just have straight up and down fletchings,
00:54:11 which is still good. You know, you can still shoot very accurately with straight up and down
00:54:15 fletchings, but most like really good archers prefer a helical. Like you have a helical.
00:54:19 Yeah. Give a little direction to that energy. So the, so the arrow won't plane,
00:54:23 but that whisker biscuit accelerates that spin makes it immediate though.
00:54:26 Well, it fucks up the fletchings cause it's a, it's twisting as it's going through all that,
00:54:32 those, those hairs. Whereas if you have a straight, you know, straight fletching,
00:54:36 it's just going to pass through.
00:54:37 It only takes a few feet. Tim Burnett still hunts with a whisker biscuit. I was watching one of his
00:54:48 YouTube videos. I mean, that guy's like killed everything. He's been around forever. You know,
00:54:52 solar hunter, you know, um, Remy's buddy. And you know, he's a really good hunter and he uses
00:54:56 a whisker biscuit. And I was like, this is crazy. I mean, maybe he's only using it on
00:54:59 that's one video that I saw, but I was like, there's a lot of people that just go, I want to
00:55:09 cut. Like a lot of people don't fuck with mechanicals. Like too many things can go wrong.
00:55:14 I'm not going to fuck around with it. The last thing I did with mine is I put it on my fishbow,
00:55:18 but it won't flow to fiberglass arrow. I realized, you know what I'm saying? I was like, man,
00:55:24 this is going to be genius for fish hunting, but it just, the arrow just goes right through it.
00:55:28 That looks like a lot of fun. Like bow hunting for fish. I love it, man. The problem is
00:55:35 you just get limited to a fish that you get limited in the U S you get limited to a lot of
00:55:45 fish species that are not as desirable, right? Like gar and carp and stuff like that down in
00:55:50 South America, you're hunting like the best, the best of the best fish. Yeah. Yeah. Oh,
00:55:56 but I mean, you're hunting like the most coveted food fish, which is fun. Cause I mean, how many,
00:56:02 you know, how many carp do you want? We used to do it when we were kids, man, we'd shoot all
00:56:05 kinds of car, but I just, you know, and then while that carp are like prized in Europe,
00:56:11 you know, it doesn't make any sense. They like, they go, I shouldn't say it doesn't make any
00:56:14 sense that they did, but I don't know where we went. I don't know how we went so wrong.
00:56:19 Yeah. It's weird. They put them all over thinking everybody's going to eat them all the time. It
00:56:22 just like did not take off. Oh, they ruined lakes. The, where I live on lake Austin. Um,
00:56:28 there's a buddy of mine who's one of my neighbors who's a fisherman. And, uh, he said, man, you
00:56:33 should have been here before they brought carp. He goes, there's all sorts of vegetation in here
00:56:37 and the bass were everywhere. But now he goes, if you can get a camera and look at the bottom of
00:56:41 this lake, it looks like the bottom of the swimming pool. There's fucking nothing. Yeah.
00:56:44 No, that's terrible, man. But the fact that it was intentional, there's so many non-native,
00:56:48 there's so many invasive species that were unintentional. But the fact that for the,
00:56:52 for the most part, the common car was, they were doing everybody a favor.
00:56:57 I think they thought they were doing a favor for rich people on lake Austin. Cause I think
00:57:02 they wanted people to have less vegetation so they could take their boats out. Got it.
00:57:06 That's what I think. And that's what he thinks too. I mean, I got this from him. He was like,
00:57:10 I think they just wanted to clean up the vegetation. Cause it was unsightly.
00:57:12 He was in, they fuck this place up. Cause he was on a boat and the one, when I met him,
00:57:18 he was casting under my dock, you know? And I went out there and I was like, what's going on,
00:57:22 man? You weren't yelling at him. No, I've, I've seen that on your show. No, I like it. I always,
00:57:28 when I see those guys and they're always like a little nervous. So I was like, how you doing,
00:57:34 I was telling this guy like the other day that there's like this four pound bass that lives
00:57:38 underneath my dock. I go, Hey man, there's a pretty good bass that lives underneath dock.
00:57:41 And he's like, really? I go, yeah, go ahead and fish it, man. I started talking to him,
00:57:46 but this is my friend, Alan shout out to Alan. Who's my neighbor. He catches all,
00:57:50 he catches his big bass. He goes, I don't even try for these. He's a big ass fucking Rapala.
00:57:54 He has like one of those jointed Rapala and it's like fucking six inches long. He's like,
00:57:59 I don't even fuck around because I just want big bass. Cause there's, there's like 15,
00:58:04 16 pound bass in that Lake. And so he catches some big ones. He said, he sends me some whoppers
00:58:09 defenders, the eight year effort to bring vegetation back to Lake Austin. Yeah, that's it.
00:58:13 Yeah. They fucked it up. They fucked it up. There's still good bass there.
00:58:19 I'm gonna show you like what Alan catches. He's catching some big ass fucking bass.
00:58:25 Where we used to, me and Roy used to be addicted to carp hunting. Cause we'd go, they'd be spawning
00:58:31 in the spring after we poured concrete, he had a construction company. We'd pour concrete. Then
00:58:36 we'd go and go try to get carp for bear bait. So before they outlawed it 94 in Oregon, we'd get
00:58:42 carp, catch these giant carp, have a wheelbarrow, get them all back, put them in a, like a 55 gallon
00:58:49 drum, put the lid on it. And then we'd make stink. So we'd call, we needed some stink to get the bear
00:58:54 bait going. Cause if you got that rotten carp in a, in a gunny sack and you put it way up a tree
00:59:00 where they couldn't get it, that stink smell would go for five miles down the draw. And then all the
00:59:05 bear would come in. Right. So I just remember this one time we had in that bunch of carp and 55 gallon
00:59:10 drum after a while that kind of builds pressure. We didn't, we're really thinking about this.
00:59:16 So we go to take that lid off and it fricking explodes in this shit smells. So I mean, maggots,
00:59:25 carps, rotten carp exploded all over. Have you ever seen those videos of when whales explode on
00:59:32 beaches? Well, I see them when they blow them up. Alan just caught this in front of my house.
00:59:36 That's giant. Yeah. He catches some big ass bass. Yeah. I think that'd get me interested in bass
00:59:44 fishing. Yeah. He gets a lot. Here's another one. He just got, and whenever he catches one,
00:59:48 he sends it to me. We're homies now. Is there a big fit? But yeah, that's a weird thing is the
00:59:54 dock thing. Like I encourage it. I'm happy when I see people, like I love all manner of outdoor
00:59:59 activities. I would never want someone to not fish near my dock. That's like so stupid. Yeah.
01:00:03 It's a repulsive behavior. It's repulsive. Yeah. It's not, it's not your, it's a dock,
01:00:10 like let people fish. You should talk to them. They're your friends. They like, wouldn't you do
01:00:14 it if you didn't have a dock and there was a dock and you knew the fish hang out under the dock.
01:00:19 Wouldn't you fish there? Yeah. So what the fuck is wrong with you? Yeah. So it's, or it's like,
01:00:23 well, you're going to have to move your dock. Cause there's a fish under there.
01:00:25 Not to fish for, but, uh, this, uh, this is the situation where that's where they go. They go
01:00:33 where it's shade. They go where they can ambush and they all go under docks and, you know,
01:00:38 hanging trees and anything they can get because they fucked it up with carp. Yeah.
01:00:42 I was living in Seattle for a while and there's, uh, we would fish small mouth and, and perch and
01:00:49 stuff in the sink at Lake Washington, which is like right downtown. And there's this, I was in
01:00:54 this neighborhood where they have these apartment buildings that are on pilings. So there's just
01:00:58 full on apartment buildings out over the water built on peers and they would cast shadows and
01:01:06 fish would collect there. And you'd, you'd be in a boat, man. I mean, you're like, like, besides
01:01:10 being out in some dude's front yard under their dock, you're fishing where you're you're right
01:01:17 here, almost looking into the window, you know, of someone eating breakfast, but your, your cast
01:01:23 right there, which felt much more intimate and kind of creepy. Yeah. That, that felt weird.
01:01:29 Weirder than, you know, like I said, where you got a house, then a yard, then a dock,
01:01:33 like that's not weird, but you could get where you could basically like awkwardly wave at someone in
01:01:39 their bathroom. Yeah. Yeah. Just don't make eye contact. I'm sitting there taking a shit,
01:01:45 looking out the window. Yeah. The, the, the, the, the dock thing is a weird one, man. It's a weird
01:01:51 one because I get it. If you're not a fisherman and you're just some asshole that just doesn't
01:01:55 want anybody near your house, what they're going to tell you, what they always tell you is that
01:02:00 some guy's going to take a lead head jig and chip the paint, chip the paint on the boat,
01:02:05 ding the dock. Like that's their claim. Okay. Is it, they're, they're going to whack your,
01:02:13 whack your stuff with a lead head jig. I feel like that's the same as if you're driving off road.
01:02:17 Like in you, you're worried about pebbles. We got to get these fucking pebbles out of here.
01:02:21 Like you're driving off road. Yeah. It'd be like, well, don't put your stuff out over the public
01:02:27 water. And what are you doing? A boat's not a car, man. Like it's a boat. It's supposed to
01:02:31 get scratched up a little, but you don't want your boat scratched up a little. Some people don't know
01:02:36 I don't get it. You know what I'm saying? Like, if you've got like, if you're on a ranch and you
01:02:43 got those stripes on the, down the side of your truck, that's kind of cool. You break it in.
01:02:50 Yeah. That's what you do. And it's new. You got, you kind of want that. I kind of want that. I,
01:02:55 I like a car that's been fucking used, you know? Yeah. Well, you have 20 cars. So I do.
01:03:00 I'm pretty sure that's how I think, you know? Uh, I was thinking, uh, I was thinking about
01:03:07 your shot. You know why I think that that helps when you do the elbow, because when you get that
01:03:13 elbow, right, you're pulling hard against that back wall. A lot of people creep on their shot.
01:03:18 Like they'll get, they'll aim and everything's going good. They're pulling hard. And then as
01:03:22 they're aiming, they're kind of relaxing. Oh, and then that cam is kind of rolling over. It's
01:03:28 called creeping that'll throw off your shot. So I think when you think of that elbow consciously,
01:03:32 it makes you think of pulling hard against that wall, which that's where the boat performs best.
01:03:36 Kyle Douglas pulls so hard that he's made bows break. Yeah. He's broken bows. Like pulling into
01:03:42 the back wall. I never even thought about what you're saying, but it makes good sense.
01:03:46 That's why it helps you Kyle Douglas. Who's a fucking, you know,
01:03:50 sitting here now trying to picture it. Yeah. I changed my shot quite a bit when I started
01:03:55 pulling really hard against the wall, really hard. You know, I pull fucking hard. I have that locked
01:04:01 in. And, um, it also changed when I stopped using a resistance, uh, attention, uh, release
01:04:07 because Dudley had me on, uh, what's called a silver bag, which is, I think one of the best
01:04:11 methods for learning how to shoot because you have a safety you pull and then it's all tension base.
01:04:18 So when you have the safety on, you can pull it hard. And then when you release the safety,
01:04:23 you just pull a little more and it goes off and you could set it to like two, three pounds,
01:04:28 whatever the amount of difference. So let's say if you have a 70 pound bow, you set it to 72 pound
01:04:33 or whatever it is at, you know, when you're at, um, you know, a full draw, whatever the, you know,
01:04:38 the drop off is. So they have this resistance setting where you can, you tweak it in your yard
01:04:44 at like, you know, five yards where you're right in front of the target and you get it to the point
01:04:47 where it's at the back wall and then you just pull a little more and it snaps and breaks and it makes
01:04:52 her a perfect release. And I use that forever. But then when I really started pulling hard in
01:04:57 the back wall, I was making it go off when I didn't want it to go off. And then when I switched
01:05:01 releases, then I'm like, Oh, that's definitely the most, because you're much more steady when
01:05:06 you're like, when I'm fucking locked out, I'm locked out. Like I'm engaged in my back when
01:05:11 I'm shooting at something, I am, everything is locked out, you know, and I find that to be way
01:05:17 more stable. Is, is your front elbow locked out? My front elbow is locked out. Norm. Yeah. I mean,
01:05:23 I used to bend it. I used to bend it a little, but then I was listening to this one guy and he said,
01:05:28 if you were going to lean against something and want to be totally stable, wouldn't you lock your
01:05:32 arm out if you're leaning against a wall and you want it to be completely rigid? I was like, Oh,
01:05:36 that makes total sense. Now that's when you want strength, you're it's bent. Like if you fall,
01:05:42 you're not, you're not falling like this. You're falling. Right. Yeah. But if you,
01:05:46 when you're like benching, like when you have strength like that, it's not locked out though.
01:05:50 You're stronger. Yeah. I think it's trying to push your right. When your buddy's car gets
01:05:54 stuck and you're trying to help him push, you're not locked out. Right. But that's strength. I'm
01:05:58 not looking for strength. I'm looking for stability. I mean, I have plenty of strength.
01:06:02 The strength is not the issue. The thing is for me is if I'm locked out, that's less movement.
01:06:07 I'm completely locked. But then nevermind. I mean, I'm not saying, you know, it's,
01:06:11 oh, there's a very, I'm anything but a, I'm anything but a competitive Archer, but
01:06:15 yeah, I've never heard that in my life. Dudley doesn't agree with it. Most like, I just, I know
01:06:19 this. Well, I shoot with a bent. We teach everybody to have it a little bit bent, but Wayne always
01:06:24 references this poster of these premier Hoyt Hoyt shooters, and they all have the exact same form
01:06:31 and they're all slightly bent. Yeah. Oh man. I find myself better when I'm locked out. Hey,
01:06:38 listen, the thing is if it works for you, who gives a fuck what anybody else says, because
01:06:42 everybody says I anchor wrong with my thumb behind my neck. So it's like, you know, it, whatever,
01:06:48 if that doesn't make any sense to me, if the arrows go in, we're supposed to that, the, the,
01:06:53 the problem with the thumb behind the neck makes no sense to me. That seems to be, to be way better
01:06:58 because if you're anchored behind your neck, that's one more part of contact and that's one
01:07:01 more thing that's locked in. You're like completely rigid. That thumb only has that much give. And
01:07:07 then it's behind your neck. I would do it if my neck wasn't so big. I keep needing to see what
01:07:10 all this is. Yeah. See, that doesn't seem crazy. No, no. Well, you see Cam do it. Cam, he gets his
01:07:16 fucking thumb behind his head. And the reason why your thumb's looking for a little spot probably
01:07:21 to kind of, yeah, now I just know where it's at. I don't even think about it, but how it used to
01:07:26 be back in the day when we started everybody like there was 30 inch bows, 29 inch bows, and that's
01:07:32 about it. Drawing. So mine, 27 and a half, I just had like a bow that was way too long. So I'm just
01:07:39 like this. And that's where it started. You're just looking for something. I'm like, God, I'm
01:07:44 trying to like, just hold it behind the neck. And they'll tell you not to do it. I do not understand
01:07:48 the logic. We started because the bow, the draw link thing, people weren't really fitting bows to
01:07:54 the shooter at that time. It was just like, here's the bow. Here's what we got. Good luck. And that's
01:07:59 what we do. It's like your brother's bow or whatever. Yeah. Somebody gave it to you, but
01:08:03 it's funny. Um, Colin harkening back to the old days, I just had Waddell on the show. So me,
01:08:09 Wayne and Waddell were shooting at the bow rack and we all have still trigger releases. You know,
01:08:14 I nowadays, the cool thing is the handheld, right? Right. But we're all old school still
01:08:19 shooting, you know, like my wife's finger, white guy, just a trigger release like that. And, and
01:08:25 we were shooting pretty dang good. We had a shooting contest all in the Xs. And I said,
01:08:30 let's get a picture of these releases. Cause it's kind of a novelty now. It's like just the old guys
01:08:35 shoot those. Well, there's still real good, competitive archers like Gillingham. Gillingham
01:08:39 is one of the greatest of all time. And he uses a trigger, you know, and he'll tell you in the way
01:08:44 he says it, he goes, this thing about target panic, he goes, it's all just a mental weakness.
01:08:50 He's like, when you're looking at a target, I mean, obviously he's like one of the best of the
01:08:54 best is a different animal, but he's like, when you're looking at a target, like if you're
01:08:58 practicing in your yard, you can do it, right? You can hit it, not flinch. He's like, it's a
01:09:03 mental weakness. That's all it is. And he's like, I prefer to command fire. He goes, I know when
01:09:07 that pin is over that target and I can stay steady and let it go. But he's got all kinds of wild,
01:09:12 wacky releases. He has, he he's always tinkering with shit. So he has weird releases that are like
01:09:17 six inches long and they like leaning forward and pull it. Like he gets it in his head.
01:09:22 Modern stuff.
01:09:23 Yeah. Modern stuff. He adjusts his stuff. He's got some weird ones, man. Where you look at
01:09:27 the like extended releases, like he's got a lot of wacky, like I wouldn't want to emulate it unless
01:09:33 you were him. He's also a fucking giant six foot six dude. And you know, it's like, he's got crazy
01:09:39 long. He shot so much. He has a crease in his nose. Swear to God from the string.
01:09:46 I mean, that's good. I know guys that were grooving her teeth, cutting fish line, you know?
01:09:50 Same thing. He's got that just where that string sits. It's like a crease. Yeah. I shot a lot of
01:09:57 arrows. I like a handheld cause I've been doing handhelds for so long. But when I'm here,
01:10:03 I practice with your release in my range. I have the wise guy. I think for hunting,
01:10:07 I think it's an event. I think for just controlled situations where you got all day,
01:10:12 I think the handhelds a way to go in an animal. You have to do command sometimes.
01:10:17 Oh, sometimes you do. You have to punch the fuck out of that trigger. I've killed a lot of animals
01:10:22 doing it. Yeah. Sometimes if you can keep it together, there's moments where you like,
01:10:26 you got to shoot now. You can't wait for the hinge to break. Right. Yeah.
01:10:29 There's certain things. I've never taken one of those home and messing with it. And I had the
01:10:34 same, I had the same feeling. Um, I had when my nephew was trying to explain chess, like the game
01:10:41 of chess to me, where I was like, that's pretty cool. Realistically. I'm not gonna, right. I'm not
01:10:50 gonna figure this out. I admire it. I'm like, I took that, that attention thing out in my yard.
01:10:56 Yeah. And after a couple minutes, I'm like, are you honestly, I'm going back to check. Are you
01:11:00 honestly going to figure this out? And I was like, at my age, as much as I shoot, I'm just not gonna
01:11:06 went back. And I just, and I, so I shoot a trigger and I'll shoot that trigger till I'm dead.
01:11:12 You shoot the same trigger. He does. You shoot the wise guy. Yeah. That's a good one too,
01:11:16 because it's hot. You're not yanking on it and pulling it. And there's not a lot of like weird
01:11:20 movement. Like when you touch that fucker, it's going off. Yeah. There's certain, yeah, that, uh,
01:11:25 there's a type of trap called a MB seven 50 that released. It just seems like really nice little
01:11:32 mechanical contraptions. Like I just like, it's like you pull it. It's like, it's so like, yeah,
01:11:38 it's so clean. Yeah. Well, I like, I use a thumb trigger now. I've been using a thumb trigger over
01:11:42 the last few years and I'll still use a hinge too. You know, I like a hinge too, because there's
01:11:48 something about a hinge where I hear that click and I know, okay, here we go. And that keeps me
01:11:53 in the moment. So I hear that. Well, I pull, I hear that click. I'm like, okay, everything,
01:11:58 keep the shot process going and then it goes off. But the problem with that is when it's windy,
01:12:03 like the, one of the things that I found, especially like hunting at the home, you know,
01:12:07 windy, it gets up there in those canyons. You're trying to punch as it drifts over. You can't do
01:12:10 it. You gotta, you have to have a trigger. You have to, you have to be able to control fire
01:12:15 occasionally, but you won't, but it helps you to have that process of recognizing that a surprise
01:12:21 shot is important. At least an element of surprise where it's not like now, but it's like, just go to
01:12:27 the, I can, you know, with a thumb trigger, you can make it go off, but you can also have it
01:12:33 surprise. So to me, that's the best of both worlds. But that's a strange situation to be in.
01:12:38 When you're thinking the next time that pin blows over that target, I'm going to punch. Yeah.
01:12:42 That's what happens to some people. The mind fuck of target panic is crazy. When you hear
01:12:48 about people that can't get the pin on the target, they can hold like six inches under the target.
01:12:55 But once they rise up to the target, like, yeah, everything starts getting shaky.
01:12:59 My body wants to put that pin. My body wants to put that pin just to the left.
01:13:03 Well, that's, I don't know why. Cause I think I don't want to obstruct it. Yeah. You want to see
01:13:09 it. Yeah. You're like, you know, it's like, I got to, when I bring it up, like if I bring a cross
01:13:13 there on something, the cross there is going to go. If I bring the pin up, it's going to want to
01:13:18 sit just left so I can still look. And then I got to go like, no, I'm going to bring it over where
01:13:23 it belongs. It's the greatest thing of all time. It has some problems, but it's the greatest thing
01:13:26 of all time. And I know they're going to eventually work this out. Is that Garmin release? Do you saw
01:13:30 that one that I was using last year? I stopped using it. Yeah. Garmin site, excuse me. I stopped
01:13:35 using it because I've had some problems ranging things, but dammit, when it works, it's a clear
01:13:42 window with a, just a led dot, no, just like a red dot with a pistol. It's fucking magic. It's magic
01:13:50 because there's no obstruction. You just put that pin right where it is. You can see through the pin
01:13:55 because it's an led. It's amazing, but it's just, there's some problems with ranging. Like when I'm
01:14:02 in my yard and I'm at 74 yards, I know it's 74 yards and, but I'll put that pin on. I had to
01:14:08 hit the button and then it'll say 67, 85, 73. I'm like, what's the fuck? And I'm like, I can't,
01:14:15 I can't have this mind fuck. And so last year I stopped using it and I went, Oh, I stopped using
01:14:19 it because when we went to Utah, they made it illegal. So I didn't, I hunted a full day with
01:14:25 that release and luckily didn't shoot anything. And then we went back and then Colton said, you
01:14:30 know, I think that's illegal here. I'm like, I don't think you didn't hunt. You just practiced.
01:14:36 Well, I definitely didn't shoot anything, but I did go out with it. I didn't even go to full draw,
01:14:41 but I didn't go out with it. Luckily I found out like a mad, I was thinking, imagine if you killed
01:14:45 something and you didn't know, cause the year before I had shot my, they changed it in April
01:14:51 and it's just, you know, some little change in the law that I didn't know about. Yeah.
01:14:57 But it's a dumb change because it only makes it more effective and it's not easier. It's just,
01:15:03 you're more ethical. Yeah. But there's, they, I mean, it's a range finder, but the States are
01:15:09 going to have, like, they have to try to like play the technology game because they just have to.
01:15:15 I agree to a certain extent, but if you're going to allow range finders, why do you allow
01:15:19 range finders? Cause you don't want people guessing. Well, there's a lot of guessing
01:15:23 when you're gap pinning, there's a lot of guessing when an animal, you range an animal of 50 yards
01:15:28 and then he takes three or four steps. There's a lot of guessing, you know, and you're just going
01:15:32 to hold high. Are you going to do so with the Garmin? All you do is just press that button again
01:15:38 and you get a new pen and it's perfect. And the other thing about the Garmin that's really
01:15:42 fantastic is if you can't range, like say if you're at 20 or you're at 40 yards and you range
01:15:49 them and then he, he walks out and you're pretty sure it's like 50 or 60, you can also press a
01:15:55 button and you get a full range of pens. So you get 20, 30, you get five led lights, you know,
01:16:02 instead of just one. So there's an advantage of that too. So if you're in a situation like we
01:16:06 were at when we were rattling and the bucks just come running in and you know, that's 20 yards or
01:16:11 30 yards, like you just pull it up and you got your pens and you can do that. Or if you're at 60,
01:16:17 you like I shot the Neil guy, you can hold it and then you get a pin. That's what it looks like.
01:16:22 It's the shit, but it just makes me nervous. They're just trying to protect what they'll say
01:16:27 is the primitive integrity of archery. It's still pretty primitive. You're still using a rangefinder.
01:16:32 Yeah. It's just a range for this incorporated. They're also trying to imagine where it's going.
01:16:36 You'll see some level of herky jerkiness and as they bring in regulations, as they try to like
01:16:43 get a sense of what's coming. Cause if you wait too long on certain technologies, you develop a
01:16:49 user group and then you develop a level of resistance. Like, like think the second drones,
01:16:55 the second drones became a thing. It was like immediate, like 13 States. Nope. Yeah. And in
01:17:06 the end you can't be like, well, why is it even on your mind? In the end, if you look where it's
01:17:11 gone in the end, they made the right call in open country. They made the right call. Yeah. Other
01:17:17 things I think that you might look and try to like picture where it's headed and then maybe come
01:17:24 back and correct. Like there was a time I remember the first time Montana came out with anything
01:17:28 about two way communications. It was no two way communications in the field the first year.
01:17:34 And people are like, hold on, if I'm hunting with my 13 year old and my 80 year old dad,
01:17:38 I can't give them a radio so that they have a problem. They can get ahold of me.
01:17:43 And like, oh yeah, I guess we didn't really mean that. And in the next year there's a modification
01:17:48 and the next year is a modification as they try to like gauge what's going on. But I think that
01:17:52 as technologies come in, there's a tendency to, to want to pump the brakes to ascertain
01:18:01 what's going on. Like, look how long some States waited on, on trail cams. Yes. Right. And like
01:18:07 no one, when trail cams came out, no one imagined they would be cellular. Right. Or that you'd run,
01:18:13 that you'd, that you'd run 40. Or that every waterhole would have 50 different dudes that
01:18:18 have trail cams. Transmitting immediate information. And so then you got to, then
01:18:22 you develop a big user group and you develop a big resistance and it just becomes a much
01:18:27 different conversation. So I think that in those cases where you see a sort of,
01:18:30 you'll see a thing that doesn't entirely make too much sense. I think that's part of the,
01:18:37 the gamble and struggle of getting it right. And the other thing is like,
01:18:40 like a thing that I think is winning out is they used to say, well, you can't have dogs
01:18:44 hunting deer, of course. And then people have been like, but I want a recovery dog.
01:18:49 Like I don't, the dog, it doesn't do any good until I've already wounded the thing.
01:18:54 And once I've wounded it, like, why would you do anything to impede me getting it back?
01:18:58 Right. And they've kind of are settling in on a, yeah, you can't run deer with a dog in most
01:19:04 States, but they're coming around to saying, but for recovery, you can track a wounded deer
01:19:10 with a dog. And so you have, there's, there's a, you know, there's a sort of
01:19:14 compromise gets struck or even a dead deer where you can't find it like heavy, heavy timber.
01:19:19 Oh yeah. Yeah. That, yeah, that, that's where it's put you. So some States, you know,
01:19:22 you used to be, you had to have it on a leash, but whatever, but coming around being like, yeah,
01:19:26 we meant you can't hunt deer with a dog. Right. We didn't mean you shouldn't be able to find a
01:19:33 wounded or dead deer with a dog and they make a gradual correction. Well, that's also the first
01:19:37 step they do to outlaw mountain lion hunting, right? No mountain lion hunting with dogs.
01:19:41 And as soon as you do that, that's coming from a completely different, right. That's coming from a
01:19:45 completely different agenda. Yes. That's not trying to help the result. That's trying to screw.
01:19:50 I just don't know. Some of them, I don't understand like lighted knocks. That's to
01:19:54 me is the dumbest one. It's like, look, lighted knocks allow you to more clearly see your impact
01:20:00 and find the arrow. So you're not littering. So instead of like an arrow, just alone in the woods,
01:20:05 you see that green light in the distance and you could find it. You know,
01:20:09 that one doesn't make a ton of sense to me. I, I wonder if someone, if in, in defining the
01:20:15 legislation, there's a little bit of a, well, what else is going to be on an arrow that's
01:20:21 electronic? I don't know. Well, they are doing something like that now where there's like,
01:20:24 there's this talk of like Bluetooth technology. They have that. Yeah. And so, and so is it
01:20:30 utilized now? Yeah. I mean, that's been out for years. So you could find the arrow with an app.
01:20:35 And so what they would say that if somebody is just going to shoot an animal, excuse me,
01:20:40 in the ass, just get an arrow stuck in it. So you know where it is and they'll find it,
01:20:45 you know, like, so is it gonna, is it gonna perpetuate shitty unethical shots?
01:20:50 Like if I can just get a piece of it, I'm good. Right. So you get any track it. Yeah. Like a
01:20:54 whale, you know, like you put a harpoon in a whale. Yeah. Oregon was, Oregon was very late on
01:21:00 allowing mechanical heads and lighted knocks. I mean, it was just recently. That's why I was like
01:21:05 fixed blade forever because at home I couldn't even shoot expandable. So Oregon, Idaho, they
01:21:11 were pretty late coming to the game on the electronics because they call it a lighted,
01:21:15 not electronic. And that was, and I still don't think Garmin sites are even legal in Oregon.
01:21:23 There's like 10 States, or I think they're illegal at least. But Utah, it's interesting
01:21:27 that they did it this year. Yeah. So yeah, I know they changed, but it might be to what Steve was
01:21:34 alluding to. It's like, you try to course correct, or they didn't want to get too far down the road
01:21:39 before they tried to come back. Cause, cause that user group was established and we'd been doing it.
01:21:45 And now they have this, you know, they fight back on that. Yeah. I just think all it does is allow
01:21:49 you to make more ethical shots. That's all. I think that a range finding site does. I mean,
01:21:54 they could say that, well, rifle hunting is more ethical than bow hunting. So why do we need to
01:21:59 bow hunt? You know what I mean? Right. Well, you could also outlaw traditional bow hunting then.
01:22:03 Cause that's just all guesswork. Yeah. A large part of it. Cam already alluded to this. A large
01:22:09 part of it is protecting a desire to protect archery seasons as you know, you can kind of
01:22:20 hold them out as low harvest, limited efficacy, high opportunity hunts, right? And a state will
01:22:29 run a bow season and then they'll get, then the general firearm and everybody gets down to the
01:22:34 real serious business of killing. And you can look at the archery harvest and the archery harvest
01:22:39 winds up in comparison being, I don't want to say negligible, but in comparison, it's just,
01:22:44 it's a blip in the harvest. And so the desire to, you know, limit bringing in crossbows,
01:22:54 certain technologies, it'd be like, let's keep it simple, traditional, low efficacy,
01:23:00 low harvest, and then allow for greater length of seasons and greater opportunity.
01:23:07 And if you get to, and I know it seems impossible, but if you can use technology to get it up where
01:23:15 your harvest rates really start to spike, you're going to have the same thing you run into in other
01:23:20 areas where you start being like, Hey, we got to limit the opportunity pool because these guys are
01:23:25 too good. You know, if you look at like a general raw number is, is just generally an archery
01:23:32 Elk hunter, what has a 10% chance of success. Just it fluctuates, but like generally is a 10%
01:23:38 chance of success. If that became 2030, you're going to pay for it somehow, you know, you're
01:23:46 going to pay for it somehow. That's what, you know, a lot of detractors of archery will say,
01:23:51 and I don't want to say, I mentioned earlier that maybe you just eliminate bow hunting. If you want
01:23:56 to be more efficient with the killing, just make a rifle. I, I believe archery is just as deadly
01:24:03 and just as ethical as rifle hunting. I believe that that's the way to go. So I don't want to,
01:24:10 but the success rate is lower to Steve's point. And it's what, what the guys back home have said,
01:24:18 the detractors of bow hunting is that the, in this could just be old boy talk. The bow hunters
01:24:23 are killing all the big bulls because I haven't heard that one, but they're rutting. We can call
01:24:29 them in. We're getting prime rut time. And so, and it's, you kind of get lulled into this trap,
01:24:35 especially with social media that you're thinking, God is everybody killing a giant bull.
01:24:39 But now with these long range shooters, man, with the rifle, you mean? Yeah. Long range rifle guys
01:24:46 are taking 700, 800 yard shots. You know, what's really good at it. I don't even rifle hunt. I mean,
01:24:53 I haven't rifle hunted since 89. You're missing out.
01:24:57 I took, I took a cat Bradley. I know we talked about it before to get her first buck in Oregon.
01:25:04 And so my buddy, Kevin had the SIG gun. She was going to shoot and it's all good. But this,
01:25:09 this other guy, he reminded me of God remember Mark Wahlberg in that movie where he was like
01:25:16 this recluse lived up in the mounds and not boogie nights. No, not boogie nights. No,
01:25:23 he didn't have, Oh yeah. Damn it. Go on. Good movie. So they wanted there. Somebody was going
01:25:29 to assassinate the president. They tried to get him because he was this ballistic expert. They
01:25:33 wanted to get him to tell them where they'd kill him from anyway. They, yeah, right here, shooter.
01:25:38 So anyway, this guy down there, or we took cat reminded me of Marth or no, not Mark, this old
01:25:45 guy he went to talk to that knew the history of anyway, he had these guns set up in this, in this
01:25:50 steel out there at 990 yards. And I can, I can shoot, but I never shoot. I haven't done it in
01:25:57 years. And I was just like, I go, how far is that far one? He's like nine 90. And I'm like,
01:26:02 what do you got here? That'll shoot. And so he had this sweet setup, right?
01:26:07 Got up, set up, got there first shot out of this gun. Um, had the wind gauge up there. And I'm
01:26:15 like, okay, the wind's going here. I'm going to hold on the left side of the steel. Boom.
01:26:20 Nine hundred 90 yards for a shot, smacked it. And I'm like, I fucking never shoot. Right.
01:26:25 I can hit this, this steel, this big at 990 yards. So to your, to your point about this long
01:26:32 range thing, that's changing the game too. People want to talk about archery is evolving and getting
01:26:38 too far ahead of ourselves. God dang, these long range rifle guys, my kids can shoot steel
01:26:43 at distances that we didn't know you that when I was a kid, you didn't know you could shoot
01:26:48 300 yards was a long way. When I was the farthest shot you could take was across that cornfield.
01:26:53 You were like a great shooter. If you could hit anything at 300. Yeah. That was the, yeah.
01:27:02 Well now everybody has shooting sticks and the, you know,
01:27:04 bipods and all sorts of different things that they used to set up to make them more stable.
01:27:09 What we had with prone. Oh yeah. I mean those, yeah, a bipod wasn't even a thing when I started
01:27:15 rifle hunting. It was like you had a sling. You could put your arm in there a little bit. That
01:27:20 might help a little bit. You're off hand. Off hand steel. Yeah. So, I mean, when we kill blacktail,
01:27:26 it was like, you, if you get, you don't want to be past a hundred.
01:27:29 You imagine if they said with rifle hunting, no more prone shots.
01:27:33 Well, I don't think they would, they would approach it a different way.
01:27:39 They wouldn't approach it that way. Well, they would start with bipods,
01:27:42 right? No, they would probably cut.
01:27:45 See, I hesitate to say anything. So I don't want to give anyone, anyone, anyone ideas,
01:27:51 but if you were going to try it, like, I can't even think if you were going to try to regulate.
01:27:56 Well, I'll put it to you this way. So we have muzzleloader seasons. Okay. A lot of
01:28:01 States have muzzleloader seasons and just very generally a States big game hunt would go archery
01:28:06 and then general firearm. And then you go into late season muzzleloader and States will regulate
01:28:14 muzzleloaders down to whether you have what powder. Okay. So loose powder pellets,
01:28:23 they'll regulate it down to open sites or no open site. They'll regulate it down to whether
01:28:30 you have a projectile that's true to bore or in case in a, in a little case and called a sabbat.
01:28:36 Um, what other kinds of stuff do they throw at you? Meaning they really like
01:28:42 your gear. They're like, in some cases they're like rifles, ignitions. They, they, they'll
01:28:48 regulate ignition systems. In some cases they break it down to completely primitive muzzleloaders.
01:28:52 That's what I'm saying. So there's nothing like, so they do have the power and the,
01:28:59 not the power, I said the right word for it. They do have the ability to come in and really nitpick
01:29:03 your gear, right? Right down to weird stuff that you'd have to, that you could have people not even
01:29:09 know what the hell you're talking about when you say true to bore projectile, but you just,
01:29:14 that hasn't come into, that hasn't come into general firearm. And in fact, I can't really
01:29:21 think of anything out there besides you can't use anything that projects light.
01:29:31 Like a laser laser. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like projecting, you see regulations around projecting
01:29:38 light. And I think there's some regulations about the scope can't have electronics in it,
01:29:43 meaning lighted reticles. I think in some States you can't have lighted reticles,
01:29:47 but so far you haven't seen that real, you haven't seen a real nitpicking of
01:29:51 long range rifle equipment. I don't even know where you'd start, man. I don't know that they
01:29:55 would regulate the magnification that they would somehow regulate laser range finders.
01:30:01 Imagine they regulate distance. Just, you can't shoot over blank distance. Yeah.
01:30:04 I don't know. It'd be, it'd be a real puzzle. If someone was tasked with figuring out how to rain
01:30:10 in, I would pay a lot of attention to that because I guarantee whatever they come up with the shit I
01:30:15 use in that case was shooting the nine 90. It reminded me of running. You do all the calculations
01:30:21 on your phone. I mean, and then you set the scope to whatever this says, right. You know,
01:30:27 if the scope has not just magnification, but also like you're changing the zero of it. So,
01:30:33 but you're doing it based on the distance, based on the load, based on everything else goes into
01:30:39 the phone. The wind was not, not the greatest because you could check the wind at the gun,
01:30:44 but when you're a thousand yards, so that's why you needed that flag out there. But to, to set
01:30:49 the scope on, to hold right on, that's all done on the phone on a, on an app or something. So
01:30:55 crazy. Let's go back to talk about bow hunters, killing all the big stuff. Yeah, I know it's a
01:31:00 bastard. Yeah. I mean, I've heard everything. I haven't heard that. So that's, I get it the rut.
01:31:07 But again, it's, you know, social media, it makes it seem like for anybody that people are,
01:31:14 everyone's successful, everyone's killing bulls. And it's just not the case. It's just not success
01:31:19 rate is still 10% on, on bulls with a, well, not even just bulls elk with a bow. Well, social media
01:31:26 has just fucked up our perceptions of everything, you know, people's bodies of people's faces,
01:31:31 filters, but it does seem like everybody's getting a big mega bull. Don't know. So many
01:31:38 people with Instagram accounts and everybody can't wait to post those photos. Yeah. It's
01:31:43 you know, I was, when I asked what year that was, I I've seen some graphs on, on hunting.
01:31:49 And I see some graphs on hunting and I, you know, we all get blamed for a lot of ills that probably
01:31:58 we don't deserve in regard to hunting, but I saw this graph talking about the hunters, you know,
01:32:04 50 years ago, there's this many hunters and right around 2015, I mean, it was plummeting.
01:32:12 The number of the, on the graph I saw the number of hunters was plum, just going straight down.
01:32:18 And then I was trying to like, is that when you started coming in and we talk about hunting here.
01:32:23 And then now it's, you know, maybe there's a little bit of an, I know there's an uptick from
01:32:28 where it was going, but I was thinking it was a downtick now, right now it's a down after the
01:32:32 COVID and now it's going back down. But if you look at the graph that I saw before you started
01:32:39 talking about hunting, who knows where the hell would be if you follow that line down to where
01:32:44 it was going, there'd be no hunters from 2015 to 2024. It's like, it was, I don't know, I don't
01:32:52 know where this graph was, but it's, I don't know. Well, it just makes sense. I mean, think about
01:32:58 the amount of millions of people that have been exposed to talking about hunting now,
01:33:03 never exposed. So it's not just, oh yeah, hunting's in a more healthy spot because we do need hunters
01:33:09 to champion our cause. Right. But it's not just that, oh, that's good. But imagine without that,
01:33:17 where we'd be. I once saw a graph. It was a, not a graph. It was a, whatever the hell,
01:33:23 a diagram or something. And it showed in Michigan, average age of fur trappers, people that held a
01:33:33 fur harvester license, the average age every year of someone holding a fur harvester license
01:33:39 actually went up one year. No one knew. It's like these same people, and they're just,
01:33:47 you know, I mean, how many new people are getting into trapping that have never trapped some,
01:33:52 God, it's gotta be small. Not like it is when for prices shoot up. Right. Yeah. Well, that's
01:33:58 different. Right. Yeah. But no, it's super small, man. No, super, super small. And then anytime,
01:34:04 yeah. For prices skyrocket, then it brings people in. If for prices are low, it's just
01:34:08 no one. One of the things you told me once that blew me away was at one point in time,
01:34:12 the richest man in the country was a beaver trapper. Yeah. Well, yeah. John Jacob Astor.
01:34:18 That's crazy. That was the most precious commodity was beavers. Yeah. I mean, you've
01:34:25 talked about Colorado, man. That's a, it's a crazy time right now because there, they are,
01:34:31 there is that measure out there. I don't, I think it's a ballot measure, but it is a,
01:34:35 yeah. Well, they're trying to, they're calling, they want to label lion hunting as trophy hunting
01:34:42 and luck. There's a, there's a guy there. He's very passionate. He's been doing a lot of good
01:34:46 work. His name's Dan Gates with Colorado for responsible wildlife management. For people
01:34:51 listening, don't know what we're talking about. We should say mountain lion, mountain lion. Yeah.
01:34:54 Right. Well, they say mountain lion, Bobcat, and then links, they throw in links, which you can't
01:34:59 hunt for anyways. Yeah. It's not even to create this idea that it's not even legal, but they love
01:35:04 putting this trophy hunting moniker out there because it's really easy to hate trophy hunting,
01:35:09 right? Which isn't even legal. You can't even, they make it. I read this article from Colorado
01:35:14 sun or something like that, where it's like, they want to eliminate people who kill mountain lions
01:35:19 and just go cut their head off and just take the, it's like, who does that? Nobody does that. But
01:35:24 people who don't know, thank, Oh my God, that's despicable. Let's serve them some mountain.
01:35:30 Yeah. What the, what the aim here is that is the attempt to create a legal term, the, the,
01:35:41 the attempt to create trophy hunting as a legal term. When you have a ballot measure,
01:35:47 both sides argue about the language. Like when, when voters go in, what are they going to read?
01:35:53 Obviously you could write any ballot. And if you could just write the ballot initiative,
01:35:57 how you wanted to, you'd win every time. But people got to debate the wording.
01:36:01 That's what they did with the wolf thing. Did you, did you read the wolf thing?
01:36:05 I never actually read it. I couldn't even, I couldn't even tell
01:36:08 what was for wolves and what wasn't. It's like, what the, I don't know which one I'm against.
01:36:13 It was like forcing it was, it was, should the state does the state need to implement a
01:36:21 reintroduction or a discovery effort or something like that? And this is this, they're trying to,
01:36:27 the debate comes around to, can you say trophy hunting in a ballot measure? Cause if they can,
01:36:35 if you can set the precedent, if you can use that, what a great tool. Cause people are going to say,
01:36:40 Oh, I don't agree with that. You know, I don't agree with that kind of hunting.
01:36:44 Right. Which would have
01:36:48 widespread implications because as demonstrated here with this deer here,
01:36:54 there's a lot of parts of it that I don't throw away and I keep sitting around.
01:37:00 Yeah. So is this a trophy or is it an emblem or what the hell is it?
01:37:04 Right. But if I kept it, does that mean that I'm now
01:37:07 captured under your definition? Right. Right. Yeah. What is trophy hunting?
01:37:12 Yeah. Yeah. And then the bringing in the wolves thing is pretty wild
01:37:16 because there's no precedent. They really don't understand like, Oh, there's precedent with,
01:37:21 obviously with Montana, with the Yellowstone, Idaho's Frank Church, Yellowstone, but long-term.
01:37:26 I mean, we're only from since the 1990s. Like there's a reason why they eradicated wolves.
01:37:32 I don't agree with it, but when you have ranchers and you have all these people that they're living
01:37:38 is based entirely on the stock that they have and whether or not they make money enough to
01:37:45 keep their farm running or not is depending upon how many animals they bring to market.
01:37:49 And then you have wolves and you just bring in wolves.
01:37:52 Yeah. Well, so there's a, if, if I got the tinfoil hat on, they want to eliminate hunting.
01:37:59 I mean, they, they want to eliminate hunting and ranching. So they don't care about ranchers
01:38:04 losing their animals. They would love people just to be a hundred percent consumers,
01:38:09 relying on the government so they can control them. They say, here's your food. Here's what
01:38:13 you're getting. You're getting it from us. You're not out there hunting it for yourself.
01:38:16 They hate hunters. If I was thinking about, you know, the governor of Colorado, which is Polis,
01:38:21 his husband is anti-hunting.
01:38:26 Yeah. He's an animal rights activist.
01:38:28 That's where all this is coming from. So, but if you look at the bigger picture, hunters,
01:38:32 they cannot stand, hunters are usually capable, confident.
01:38:42 You know, they have a skillset. You can't control people like that.
01:38:46 They want people, government wants people they can control. That'll be afraid when they're
01:38:51 supposed to be afraid. Wear this mask. When we tell you, get this shot. When we tell you,
01:38:54 here's you, you get your food from the store here, here it is. And
01:38:58 I think there's certainly an element of that.
01:39:00 Hunters are the opposite of that.
01:39:01 Yeah. I think there's certainly an element of that, but I think it really all boils down to
01:39:04 people that love animals.
01:39:06 I definitely detect that there's a complete disinterest in what hunters think about it.
01:39:13 And they think that, that for someone to come in and argue,
01:39:17 by doing this wildlife measure, you're impacting,
01:39:22 like you would like this animal on the landscape for viewing pleasure.
01:39:27 I like certain animals on the landscape for hunting, consumption, eating, whatever. And
01:39:36 there's a conflict here where by doing this, you're going to lower,
01:39:41 by increasing your likelihood of having viewer pleasure, you're having a potentially
01:39:46 really negative impact on my use of natural resources.
01:39:53 I think that they would look at you as though you don't have a, that you're ridiculous or
01:39:57 evil, or don't have a point in saying that you want to control.
01:40:03 You want to limit predation on a resource you rely on.
01:40:06 And they don't accept that as a reality.
01:40:09 I haven't encountered a lot of like really, really forceful wolf advocates that are
01:40:20 serious hunters.
01:40:23 There is a, there's a trend there.
01:40:24 The thing that bothered me about the, bothered me most about the Colorado reintroduction is
01:40:32 that while the ballot measure was going forward, wolves showed up on their own.
01:40:36 I would have imagined, even if I was on, and I'm not anti-wolf, but
01:40:41 when they showed up on their own, I don't even know if it's legally possible, I would have
01:40:47 halted that whole thing because the social friction is so much less if they walk in on
01:40:54 their own.
01:40:55 Diane Boyd, who is the Montana wolf specialist for many years,
01:41:01 she even came to believe in hindsight that the Idaho Montana reintroductions ultimately
01:41:09 would have been, ultimately were unnecessary and that you would have gradually achieved
01:41:14 the same thing with wolves walking in on their own and had a very different societal
01:41:19 perception of what was going on.
01:41:20 People would look at it as a natural, like a natural dispersal, a natural occurrence,
01:41:26 and not a government action.
01:41:29 Yeah, but I think they wanted that pomp and circumstance.
01:41:32 Pulvis was there, I think, when they released the wolf.
01:41:34 Oh, yeah.
01:41:35 With a big stupid smile on his face.
01:41:36 Yeah, they wanted-
01:41:37 Everybody else, all the biologists all had this, like, "What are we doing?"
01:41:40 (laughter)
01:41:40 It was like, "Yay!"
01:41:42 Yeah, they wanted-
01:41:43 "Nature!"
01:41:44 Right, they wanted that.
01:41:45 And if they knew the truth of how nature balances itself, it doesn't really balance.
01:41:49 It's over, predators kill way too many prey animals because there is no tag limits.
01:41:56 For example, they talk about trophy hunting lions, mountain lions.
01:42:01 To hunt in Colorado, you have to take- it's very regulated.
01:42:03 You take this test, so you learn how to identify a tom and a female.
01:42:08 You learn how to age a little bit, based on the coloring.
01:42:12 You learn what size of track.
01:42:14 So, you have to go through this before you hunt.
01:42:16 And the whole quota system.
01:42:17 The quota, like, yeah, so the quota where I was in the unit I was hunting was 34 lions.
01:42:23 Every night after 5, you call in to see where we're at.
01:42:27 When I got there, it was at 31.
01:42:29 I was there for 6 days.
01:42:31 It was up to- it was 34 was the limit.
01:42:33 It was up to 33, so one more lion could get killed.
01:42:36 And then it's done.
01:42:38 So, it's not like-
01:42:39 What happens if, like, you kill- you're in the woods, no signal.
01:42:43 Yeah.
01:42:43 And someone else kills too, until it hits 36.
01:42:45 It could.
01:42:46 That's why you check in-
01:42:47 There's a 24- there's a window.
01:42:48 After 5.
01:42:49 Yeah.
01:42:49 So, I think-
01:42:50 And it'll usually click in, like, a 24-hour clock.
01:42:53 Maybe they might've been immediate.
01:42:54 I don't know.
01:42:54 It was- they have- you have 48 hours.
01:42:57 Okay.
01:42:57 To turn it in there.
01:42:58 And, um, but anyway, point is, you're not overharvesting.
01:43:02 You know, the estimate goes up to as high as 7,000 mountain lions in Colorado.
01:43:08 Probably maybe 5,000.
01:43:10 But in the whole state, hunters are allowed to kill 450.
01:43:13 And they've been doing this.
01:43:15 And it's not like they're out there killing mountain lions, cutting their heads off,
01:43:20 no regard for the numbers, wiping them out.
01:43:22 It's so regulated.
01:43:24 You know, you don't have to call and report your deer and elk.
01:43:28 But lions are, like, a whole 'nother level as far as control.
01:43:32 And think about that quota system.
01:43:34 If you have a horrific snowstorm that pushes all kinds of deer and elk out of high country,
01:43:41 and, like, everybody and his brother- like, a perfectly timed snowstorm,
01:43:44 and everybody and his brother is just piling up deer and elk, and they don't go, "Uh-oh!
01:43:52 Shut it down!"
01:43:52 They sit back, and they'll go, like, "Wow!
01:43:55 What a harvest!"
01:43:58 But with lions, they would come in and go, "Oh, done."
01:44:01 But it's a perpetual motion machine where they've had a really healthy, stable population,
01:44:10 a minimum harvest that just goes on.
01:44:14 - It's under 10% harvest.
01:44:15 - Here's the thing that we should talk about when it comes to these reintroduction of predators,
01:44:20 which, listen, I fucking love wolves.
01:44:24 I mean, if you look out here, I have all these photos of wolves.
01:44:26 It's long-distance photos of wolves.
01:44:28 I'm happy that they exist.
01:44:29 I think they're fucking amazing.
01:44:30 - I got a big one on my wall in my living room.
01:44:33 - Yeah.
01:44:34 They're probably my favorite animal.
01:44:35 I just think they're the fucking coolest animal of all time.
01:44:37 I really do.
01:44:38 I just look in their eyes, photos of them.
01:44:40 If I come across photos on my Instagram, I'm always like, "Holy shit, look at that thing."
01:44:44 They're majestic.
01:44:45 But their numbers have to be managed.
01:44:50 And as uncomfortable as that sounds for people, wildlife biologists,
01:44:54 they have an understanding of the carrying capacity and the resources of the land.
01:44:59 They understand how many hunters there are.
01:45:01 They understand how many...
01:45:02 That's how tags are allocated.
01:45:03 - Yeah, it's not a guessing game.
01:45:04 - Yeah, it's the way people need to understand this.
01:45:06 It's like they've done this for a long time.
01:45:10 These people have painstakingly researched these numbers.
01:45:15 They know exactly what they're doing.
01:45:16 But when it comes to this game of reintroduction of animals,
01:45:21 the first step is they say there's a carrying capacity for the amount of wolves.
01:45:26 This is the number.
01:45:27 When it gets to that, we will agree to open up a season on wolf hunting.
01:45:31 But every time that happens, there's lawsuits.
01:45:35 There's lawsuits to try to stop that hunt.
01:45:37 And then the wolves get larger and larger.
01:45:39 - Yeah.
01:45:40 - And then you have larger and larger populations.
01:45:42 I was looking at a graph the other day where they showed
01:45:44 reintroduction of wolves to the Yellowstone, the amount of elk that existed,
01:45:48 and now the amount of wolves versus the amount of elk.
01:45:51 And it's pretty shocking.
01:45:52 It's a giant drop.
01:45:53 And they're so good at hunting.
01:45:55 They're fucking amazing.
01:45:56 But hunting wolves is insanely difficult.
01:46:01 It's really hard to do.
01:46:03 They're really fucking smart.
01:46:05 They're really aware.
01:46:06 Their senses are light years beyond what we could even physically imagine
01:46:11 an animal to be capable of doing.
01:46:13 In our minds, we know that deer--
01:46:16 I remember I was watching an episode of your show where a bear winded you guys
01:46:20 like fucking 500 yards or something.
01:46:22 - Yeah, yeah.
01:46:22 - It's incredible.
01:46:24 Their noses are fucking amazing.
01:46:26 Their senses are amazing.
01:46:28 I don't think we really--
01:46:30 it's almost like looking at the size of the universe.
01:46:33 Like, you know, it's 13 point whatever billion light years across.
01:46:36 You don't fucking--
01:46:37 that's just going in your head.
01:46:40 The kind of power that the senses of a wolf have,
01:46:43 I don't think we could even really fathom it.
01:46:46 So our thought is people are just going to go in there and wipe out the wolves
01:46:50 like they did before.
01:46:52 That's just ignorance.
01:46:53 The way they wiped out before was strychnine.
01:46:54 - Well, at this point, you can go and say that it's just--
01:46:56 that that's not the reality.
01:46:58 Because after the delisting in the northern Rockies,
01:47:04 after the delisting, that didn't happen.
01:47:06 - Right.
01:47:06 - Right.
01:47:08 - Did they ever research quotas?
01:47:09 - Yeah, they reached quotas.
01:47:11 Every night-- not every night.
01:47:13 Many nights, I'll check and y'all get notifications.
01:47:18 Like, "I got a notification," whatever the hell.
01:47:20 313, whatever it was.
01:47:21 Unit had hit its quota.
01:47:23 Region 5, it hit its quota.
01:47:25 I'm talking about in Montana.
01:47:26 Whatever region hit its quota.
01:47:27 At this point, it's--
01:47:29 at this point, we've hit at--
01:47:31 it is a stable--
01:47:34 there is a stable population of wolves across a big chunk of range
01:47:38 that are managed as a renewable natural resources--
01:47:43 that were managed as a big game species.
01:47:45 There is no problem.
01:47:46 It still gets litigated all the time,
01:47:47 but the whole idea that they're going to be pushed back
01:47:49 on the-- onto the ESA, on the endangered specialist,
01:47:53 the state doesn't want that.
01:47:54 That'd be the worst thing that could happen to the state.
01:47:56 - Right.
01:47:56 - They're not going to shoot them into oblivion.
01:47:58 - Right.
01:47:58 - It's like, we have wolves on the landscape,
01:48:01 and you could have the extremes of people that
01:48:04 want to live in a world where there aren't any.
01:48:05 That's not realistic.
01:48:07 Like, you lost that fight.
01:48:08 You have extremes where people want to live in a world
01:48:10 where there's as many as possible,
01:48:12 and there's no regulation on them,
01:48:14 which isn't extreme because we could live in that landscape.
01:48:17 But right now, we're living in a landscape
01:48:18 where there are wolves on the ground.
01:48:19 There's a healthy population.
01:48:21 There's hunting for them.
01:48:22 There's a equilibrium emerging, and it's very livable.
01:48:28 But in Colorado, it's like, you got hunters that are--
01:48:31 if hunters saw that there was a pathway to finding the extent of it,
01:48:37 they would probably feel a lot better.
01:48:38 But right now, they're like, we're going to lose 50% of elk.
01:48:42 We're going to lose 75% of elk.
01:48:44 This is going to get litigated.
01:48:46 It could be 100 years from now.
01:48:48 We could have 90 years of full recovery objective.
01:48:52 There's still no regulated harvest on wolves,
01:48:54 and they're apprehensive.
01:48:57 - And it's also for high population areas, which is the ones that vote the most.
01:49:01 I mean, that's where the people are that are voting.
01:49:04 These are generally urban areas that don't have any understanding
01:49:07 of what they're even voting on.
01:49:08 - Yeah, they're hoping to see one.
01:49:09 - Like exactly what's going on in BC when they delisted--
01:49:12 when they made it illegal to hunt grizzly bears.
01:49:15 And the people that live up in BC, like my friend Mike,
01:49:18 who lives in northern BC, is like, Jesus Christ.
01:49:20 First of all, this is a way that a lot of people make a living
01:49:25 is by having these bear hunts.
01:49:27 This is a part of their lifestyle.
01:49:30 They're guides.
01:49:32 They guide people to hunt grizzlies.
01:49:34 And it's important to maintain their population
01:49:36 because if you don't, nothing is.
01:49:38 And these people in these urban areas, they think of it as trophy hunting.
01:49:42 But at least people know that you eat bear.
01:49:44 Nobody's eaten wolves.
01:49:46 So that is like one of the most difficult to defend
01:49:49 when you say, I'm going to go wolf hunting.
01:49:51 What a piece of shit you are.
01:49:53 You're going to hunt wolves?
01:49:54 The fuck is wrong with you?
01:49:55 - Here's a-- you mentioned, Steve, that it's kind of at a stable level
01:50:00 with the wolves now.
01:50:02 You know, you call and check in, and wolves are introduced.
01:50:04 They're still being hunted.
01:50:06 So that works in Montana, in Idaho, I think.
01:50:09 - In Wyoming, Idaho, Montana.
01:50:11 - Right.
01:50:12 So I sent this to you.
01:50:13 I was just looking this up.
01:50:14 - In Alaska, of course.
01:50:15 - Right.
01:50:16 In Idaho, low, low region, in '95, 12 wolves were introduced.
01:50:22 In 2005, 512 wolves were present.
01:50:26 In 2011, 800 wolves were present.
01:50:29 So the elk from '95, there's 16,000 elk in this region.
01:50:34 In 2016, there was 1,000 elk.
01:50:36 So it went from 16,000 to 1,000.
01:50:40 So that's what wolves can do.
01:50:41 - That's insane.
01:50:42 - So when you say-- and that's-- they can hunt them in Idaho.
01:50:46 In Colorado, when there is no wolf hunting, and now these wolves are back--
01:50:51 - And there won't be.
01:50:52 - Not under this-- they're governor now.
01:50:56 And that's what I say.
01:50:59 It's like, once these prey animals get down, then they can say, well, we don't need hunters.
01:51:05 - Yeah.
01:51:05 - There's nothing to hunt.
01:51:06 - Well, that's the objective in California.
01:51:08 - That is a thing to say.
01:51:08 - That's a regulated objective in California.
01:51:10 - Right.
01:51:10 - It's a state-stated objective.
01:51:12 - And I've heard they want to turn Colorado into a-- almost like a viewing state.
01:51:17 Like, you know, how they do the safaris over in Africa, where there's no hunting.
01:51:21 You're just out taking pictures.
01:51:22 That's what they want Colorado to be.
01:51:23 So they want low numbers of elk and deer so there is no hunting.
01:51:27 So then they can say, well, we don't really need hunters.
01:51:30 And by the way, do you guys need guns now?
01:51:32 I don't know if you need guns.
01:51:33 Because you said you needed them for hunting.
01:51:35 - Mm-hmm.
01:51:36 - So that's a big portion of-- some people say, yeah, we want our everyday carry for protection.
01:51:40 A lot of people say we want to hunt.
01:51:42 With no hunting, you don't need guns.
01:51:43 So there's this big diabolical plan.
01:51:46 You could say, is this what's happening?
01:51:48 But all I know is that where there's wolves, there's way less elk.
01:51:51 - That's-- it's openly stated on this wolf conservation website.
01:51:54 - Mm-hmm.
01:51:55 - That that's their ultimate goal.
01:51:56 Their ultimate goal is to remove firearms.
01:51:58 Because you won't need them if you don't need them for hunting.
01:52:00 - Right.
01:52:01 You wind up with this attitude about it that a lot of people that are just really-- and again,
01:52:10 and I'm stuttering here because I'm not an anti-wolf person, right?
01:52:17 I'm a pro-- I'm like pro hitting a recovery objective and then having a managed resource.
01:52:27 But you'll find that a lot of wolf advocates will really try to, in one breath, tell you
01:52:34 that it actually-- they don't actually do that.
01:52:36 They don't actually cause the decline of elk numbers.
01:52:39 Like when elk numbers collapsed in the coming-- with the coming of the wolf in the northern
01:52:45 Rockies, there's other factors that could have explained that, right?
01:52:47 They don't actually do that.
01:52:49 But at the same time, they'll say, oh, but that would be a great tool for controlling
01:52:55 wildlife diseases which populate among overpopulated ungulates.
01:52:59 So you wind up getting this crosstalk.
01:53:01 On one hand, oh, they're not that-- it's not that catastrophic for big game herds.
01:53:07 But it really lowers big game herds.
01:53:11 It helps the disease transmission.
01:53:13 And it's part of that-- that's kind of stuff that really frustrates people.
01:53:16 - Yeah.
01:53:17 - You know, like you're getting all this-- they're like shit rainbows, you know?
01:53:22 - Right.
01:53:23 - And it like-- it pisses people off.
01:53:27 - Well, it's also like we were saying, it's almost indefensible to someone who's an anti-hunter.
01:53:31 You could say I hunt for food and people go, I don't agree with you, but I get it.
01:53:37 - Yeah.
01:53:37 - Nobody gets wolf hunting, you know?
01:53:41 Like, do you want to go hunt a wolf?
01:53:42 I don't want to hunt a wolf.
01:53:44 I don't want to shoot a wolf.
01:53:45 I love them.
01:53:47 I think they're amazing.
01:53:48 But I get--
01:53:48 - You could say I take the thing of-- I harvested an animal and took the thing of highest relevance
01:53:56 and value to me.
01:53:57 On a deer, I didn't keep the hide.
01:54:00 I didn't retain the hide.
01:54:01 But I kept the meat.
01:54:04 On a wolf, I didn't keep the meat, but I retained the hide.
01:54:06 I took the thing of highest value to me.
01:54:07 - Weren't there like some trappers you were telling me that like wolf meat was their favorite
01:54:12 meat?
01:54:12 - Oh, there's an Arctic explorer, Viljomer Steffensen.
01:54:18 And he would-- he had a book, "My Life with the Eskimo."
01:54:23 And he made first contact with a lot of Eskimo Inuit hunters in the Canadian high Arctic.
01:54:28 And he always claimed that was his favorite game meat.
01:54:30 - Well, why?
01:54:31 If people eat-- if they eat mountain lion, and mountain lion, you told me it's delicious.
01:54:34 - Yeah.
01:54:35 - Why don't they eat wolves?
01:54:36 - It's weird, man.
01:54:37 I've never-- I mean, I've never gotten a wolf.
01:54:39 - You ate a coyote once.
01:54:40 - Yeah.
01:54:40 I've never gotten a wolf.
01:54:41 And I've never eaten a wolf.
01:54:44 But I know people that have eaten it, but it's not a-- you know, eating-- like, lion
01:54:50 hunters eating mountain lions is very common.
01:54:52 I don't believe that-- I believe there's some people that eat some wolf meat, because I've
01:54:58 heard of it and seen it.
01:54:58 I don't think it's widely practiced.
01:55:00 - Have you ever heard-- do you ever talk to someone who's eaten wolf?
01:55:03 - Yeah, who-- I do know a couple of guys that have eaten wolf.
01:55:07 My friend Buck Bowden's eaten wolf.
01:55:11 - That's the guy that makes the bowls?
01:55:13 - Yep.
01:55:14 He had eaten it.
01:55:16 And I think-- didn't Randy Newberg eat a wolf?
01:55:21 - He might have.
01:55:21 - Yeah, I think he ate a wolf.
01:55:22 - What did Buck Bowden say it tastes like?
01:55:24 - There's a story about Buck Bowden where someone's talking to him and he's cleaning
01:55:31 a wolverine skull, okay, when he was trapping wolverines.
01:55:34 He's cleaning a wolverine skull with a knife at a counter and someone's talking to him.
01:55:38 And as he's talking to him, he's eating the hunks of meat that he scrapes off the skull
01:55:42 with this knife.
01:55:44 But I don't remember what he told me about it.
01:55:46 He told me-- I remember him telling me the one thing he can't get that he's tried every
01:55:49 which way is brown bears eating salmon.
01:55:52 - Just always nasty.
01:55:53 - I remember him telling me that was the one food that he had a hard time with.
01:55:56 - Well, you were telling that story about how you borrowed your friend's smoker.
01:56:00 - Yeah, coastal black bears.
01:56:02 - Yeah, and you were like, "Man, you gotta clean your smoker.
01:56:05 It smells like fish."
01:56:06 - Yeah.
01:56:07 - He's like, "I've never cooked fish on that smoker."
01:56:08 - Yeah, you know, I didn't use that for that.
01:56:10 And I was like, "Oh, that's my bear."
01:56:12 - My bear ham did that to me.
01:56:14 - How did the bear taste?
01:56:15 - Oh, I don't mind.
01:56:17 You know what's funny?
01:56:17 You know Dirt, right?
01:56:18 Dirt really liked that bear that tastes like smoked salmon.
01:56:24 Because he's like, "Well, I like smoked salmon."
01:56:25 - Right.
01:56:26 - "And I like meat.
01:56:27 This is the full package."
01:56:28 - Yeah, it's like a fusion.
01:56:30 - No, we ate enough.
01:56:31 But I'll just eat stuff.
01:56:32 You know, I don't care.
01:56:33 If I have it, I'll eat it.
01:56:34 - Well, if you do it right.
01:56:35 Like one of the things that we learned when we were hunting with Jesse last year, like
01:56:39 diver ducks, which people normally say they taste like shit because they eat the stuff
01:56:44 on the bottom of the lakes.
01:56:46 - Not when he cooks them.
01:56:47 - Jesse Griffiths can cook some diver duck that makes it like literally one of my favorite
01:56:52 things I've ever eaten in my life.
01:56:53 - You can figure anything out.
01:56:55 You can figure anything out.
01:56:56 It just depends how much work you want to put into it.
01:56:57 - Right.
01:56:58 And you know, obviously it doesn't hurt being an amazing chef, you know.
01:57:02 But he's got it down to a fucking science.
01:57:05 Those diver ducks were sensational.
01:57:08 - If you talk to the average duck hunter, they're like, "Oh."
01:57:10 - If I got a wolf, I would definitely want to have a couple chews off it.
01:57:14 But I mean, I could tell you that you'd never separate me from the hide off that thing.
01:57:19 But I would, you know, I would go into it and be like, "I'm going to try it just because
01:57:23 I want to see what it's all about."
01:57:24 - Yeah.
01:57:24 - You know, but it wouldn't be my primary objective in getting one.
01:57:28 - Some of those animals just need to be killed.
01:57:31 That's all they're like coyotes, wolves.
01:57:33 They just need to be killed.
01:57:34 You have to, and whether you eat them or not, I don't know, their numbers need to be managed.
01:57:39 - The wildest thing about coyotes is it doesn't work.
01:57:42 It has the opposite effect.
01:57:43 - Well...
01:57:44 - Depending on how good you are at it.
01:57:48 - They're done in a very surgical fashion, at the right time, the right place, with the
01:57:56 right level of intensity, they have found that it's effective.
01:57:59 - But you got to bring in a fucking special ops unit.
01:58:03 - No, like you can, there's, man, if you have imperiled populations of pronghorn or imperiled
01:58:09 populations of mule deer, and you go in, like during calving season, in the right areas
01:58:18 at the right time, you can move the needle on recruitment.
01:58:21 Does you now and then, if you have a ranch and you now and then see a coyote and get
01:58:28 it, are you doing like effective predator control?
01:58:32 Probably not.
01:58:33 That does not mean that you cannot, done in a timely fashion, like I said, surgically,
01:58:40 a timely fashion, with the right approach, at the right time, you can absolutely move
01:58:44 the needle on wildlife recruitment.
01:58:45 You see it in Alaska, you see it in Arizona, you see it all over the place.
01:58:49 - But the issue is, statewide or locally, that might be the case, but they will then
01:58:55 spread out.
01:58:55 Now they're in every state, they're in every city in the country because of that, because
01:59:01 people have hunted them.
01:59:02 - So I put this to someone the other day, you know how you don't do media?
01:59:06 - Yeah.
01:59:07 - You don't like doing interviews?
01:59:08 - Yeah.
01:59:08 - I now and then get like suckered into doing an interview, and I did an interview about
01:59:13 a contentious issue.
01:59:15 It was about states banning, I knew the minute the journalist called me and he's talking
01:59:20 about banning wildlife killing contests.
01:59:23 And I said, "Can we please say hunting contests at least?
01:59:29 Do we have to say wildlife killing contests?"
01:59:32 And I'm like, you know, my buddy Doug has a doe derby where they're in an area where
01:59:37 they're trying to lower deer numbers for issues of disease transmission, habitat improvement,
01:59:43 and he has a little derby where you win some prizes because they're trying, the state is
01:59:48 explicitly trying to encourage doe harvest.
01:59:54 Is he having a wildlife killing contest or is he having a derby as a management tool?
02:00:00 Right?
02:00:01 Anyways, I do this interview and shouldn't have done it because the quote they pulled
02:00:07 for me was not the right quote.
02:00:09 I'm so mad about that guy came here, what point I was driving at.
02:00:11 - You were going to say that they tried to lump it in as a killing contest and, oh, the
02:00:18 outlaw, the contest of killing animals, basically.
02:00:22 - Yeah, but I had some like broader ass point.
02:00:24 I can't remember now what it was, apologies.
02:00:25 (laughing)
02:00:26 I got so riled up about talking to that guy.
02:00:28 - Yeah.
02:00:29 - Yeah.
02:00:29 - And so I do want to revisit one thing because I said, like for me, anytime I see coyote,
02:00:36 if I got a license and it's legal, I kill it.
02:00:39 I killed one this year.
02:00:40 I'm always trying to, my personal thing is I kill so many prey animals a year, whatever
02:00:46 that number is, I'm going to try to kill a number of predators also.
02:00:50 I feel like that's doing my part to whatever.
02:00:53 - To balance it.
02:00:54 - To balance it.
02:00:54 But I did want to say one thing about the mountain lion hunting.
02:00:57 As I say that I will kill just a coyote just because I think it's to kill.
02:01:01 I didn't kill a lion in Colorado because one of the biggest benefits to using dogs is identifying
02:01:08 if that's the animal you want to kill.
02:01:09 It's not what happens now, like in Oregon where the outlaw running lions with dogs is
02:01:15 if you kill one, it's just one you saw and you don't know what it is.
02:01:20 You don't know how old it is.
02:01:21 You don't know male, female, because you don't have time.
02:01:24 - Right.
02:01:25 - And, but that's the only way you can hunt them.
02:01:27 So now they have, the season is open all year.
02:01:30 It never closes in Oregon.
02:01:32 There is no dog.
02:01:33 So lion numbers are going way up.
02:01:35 Deer numbers going way down.
02:01:36 That's kind of what happens.
02:01:37 Where dogs are allowed or baiting for bears allowed, or even hunting black bear with dogs
02:01:43 is allowed.
02:01:44 You're killing the animal that should be killed.
02:01:47 The older male generally, and you're identifying it.
02:01:50 You're taking out the right one.
02:01:52 Without those measures in place, those hunting a dog as a tool, without those measures
02:01:57 in place, it's not nearly as controlled.
02:02:00 And it's not like people are just going out there, just going to kill any lion up the
02:02:03 tree.
02:02:03 Just like I didn't kill one because I didn't see an old male lion.
02:02:07 - Houndsmen are the one that originally pushed for lion regulations.
02:02:10 - Yeah.
02:02:11 - They were pushing for lion regulations when no one was paying any attention to lion
02:02:15 conservation.
02:02:17 Okay.
02:02:17 I finally remember my point.
02:02:18 - Okay.
02:02:19 - Am I allowed to go back in time?
02:02:20 - Yeah, you're good.
02:02:22 We were having this conversation where people say that coyote hunting actually increases
02:02:28 coyote numbers.
02:02:29 And I see what you're talking about, because it disrupts pack dynamics and can lead to
02:02:35 animals shooting off in new directions and starting packs.
02:02:37 - It also leads to them having more offspring.
02:02:39 - But I said, well, if you're super pro coyote, why would you not encourage that?
02:02:45 - It's true.
02:02:46 - And I'm just throwing it out there as a rhetorical question.
02:02:48 - Well, it is a rhetorical question, but it actually does have merit.
02:02:51 You know, Dan Flores' book, Coyote America, which is an amazing book, fucking incredible
02:02:57 book when you realize how wild those things are.
02:02:59 - Yeah.
02:02:59 - And when they get killed, when they do their roll call and there's a coyote missing, the
02:03:05 female coyotes will produce more pups.
02:03:07 I mean, that's the reason why they're everywhere.
02:03:10 - Yeah.
02:03:11 I'm friends with Dan.
02:03:13 I started under Dan.
02:03:15 I have massive respect for Dan.
02:03:17 I have Dan on the show.
02:03:18 There's certain little tidbits of this debate that Dan and I don't see eye to eye on, and
02:03:23 this is one of them.
02:03:25 - Yeah.
02:03:25 - But love him.
02:03:28 - But the effect is hard to argue.
02:03:30 They literally have gone from 100 years ago where they were primarily in the Southwest
02:03:36 and in the West to everywhere in New York City.
02:03:39 I mean, they have coyotes in fucking Central Park.
02:03:42 - Yeah, and some of their...
02:03:44 You gotta realize too, wildlife dynamics can play out very slowly.
02:03:48 So in some ways, it's possible they're still responding from the elimination of the wolf.
02:03:56 - Right.
02:03:56 - Right?
02:03:57 - Right.
02:03:57 - Some of this stuff takes so long.
02:03:59 You just look at...
02:03:59 Why does this very gradually...
02:04:02 Why do raccoons and possums keep going north and west?
02:04:07 It's just so weirdly gradual.
02:04:09 Javelinas move over time.
02:04:12 So you see these things that happen so slowly that you can't picture them playing out,
02:04:17 but with the coyote, it seemed like there was a gradual movement and then just an explosion.
02:04:21 I remember them coming into our area.
02:04:24 I was a red fox trapper, and we didn't have coyotes.
02:04:28 I remember the first coyote I ever saw.
02:04:30 And now it's like, for the most part, red fox are gone and coyotes are there.
02:04:35 And that was part of the...
02:04:39 Not just the gradual increase.
02:04:41 That was the explosion in the '90s, where they just...
02:04:45 I don't know.
02:04:47 They suddenly figured something out.
02:04:49 Something clicked.
02:04:50 I don't know what it was, man.
02:04:51 - I was in this conversation with some guy in the Hollywood Hills.
02:04:54 People up there are terrified of losing their dogs.
02:04:57 They lose their dogs all the time.
02:04:59 Dogs and cats get killed by coyotes constantly.
02:05:02 And he was telling me about this.
02:05:03 And it's like, "Fucking hate them.
02:05:05 They're everywhere."
02:05:05 I go, "Yeah, I get it.
02:05:06 But you love rats?"
02:05:09 Because if it wasn't for coyotes, rats would be everywhere.
02:05:12 They'd be everywhere.
02:05:13 They also keep the population of things down that you don't want.
02:05:18 I mean, they're an essential part of the ecosystem.
02:05:21 There's a reason why, where I used to live in California, it's not infested with rats.
02:05:27 Because it's got a lot of coyotes.
02:05:28 They're fucking everywhere.
02:05:30 And yeah, don't leave your dog out.
02:05:33 Yeah.
02:05:33 Don't let a kitten roam around your backyard and you're not looking.
02:05:38 Because they'll get it.
02:05:40 They killed all my chickens.
02:05:41 But they're also a very important part of that system.
02:05:46 Again, I don't dislike them.
02:05:48 Yeah, I love them.
02:05:49 I like them.
02:05:49 Every year I flesh and stretch a few and send them to the tannery.
02:05:53 Someday I'm going to have a big giant bed spread out of coyotes.
02:05:56 How many do you have now?
02:05:58 What's that?
02:05:58 How many do you have?
02:05:59 How many have I got saved up now?
02:06:00 I mean, I used to sell them.
02:06:04 Now I got saved up maybe 10 of them.
02:06:06 How many do you need for a bed spread?
02:06:08 I haven't done the math yet.
02:06:09 Maybe I've already sent in.
02:06:12 We had 50 beavers and we did two blankets, two big blankets out of 50 beavers.
02:06:16 Beautiful.
02:06:19 The fur thing is a fascinating one, too.
02:06:23 Because there's people that are really anti-fur, but yet they're wearing leather.
02:06:27 And they probably don't like the oil industry.
02:06:29 But they drive.
02:06:32 They drive a car.
02:06:33 Well, that was my favorite.
02:06:34 I talked about that on stage last night.
02:06:36 The fucking stop oil people that block the highway with their fucking paint on their
02:06:41 sign that's made with oil wearing shoes are made with oil wearing clothes.
02:06:45 Unless they're dressed in fur, it's made up on antidepressants that were made from oil.
02:06:51 You know, they use oil for everything.
02:06:53 I know that.
02:06:54 Oh, yeah, man.
02:06:54 That's that's something that happened in the early 1900s.
02:06:59 They figured out to use petroleum based things to make medicine.
02:07:05 Yeah, they got their fingers in everything, don't they?
02:07:08 Everything.
02:07:09 Not fur.
02:07:10 Not fur.
02:07:10 Yeah, everything.
02:07:12 But it's like the weird thing is like people don't like animal skins that have fur on it.
02:07:17 That's the crazy part.
02:07:18 Like if you have fur boots, people are like, oh, you piece of shit.
02:07:21 If you have leather boots, like, oh, guys got boots on.
02:07:23 Yeah, it's almost over noticed, but it always drives me crazy.
02:07:26 Like, why has it become bad?
02:07:27 Why is it so much better to take the fur off?
02:07:30 It's weird.
02:07:31 It's weird.
02:07:31 The skin itself.
02:07:33 It's leather, and that's fine.
02:07:36 But if you leave the fur on, oh, you fucking creep.
02:07:38 It's weird.
02:07:40 Yeah, that's that's one argument that I, you know, people like to lump kind of an aside,
02:07:45 but lump hunters into trophy hunters or meat hunters, which I think we would all agree.
02:07:50 You can be both.
02:07:51 Yeah, I take.
02:07:52 Oh, I take every ounce of the meat from the animals I kill every ounce of the meat.
02:07:57 I'm not saying that's a bad thing.
02:07:58 I'm just saying that's a bad thing.
02:07:59 Every ounce of the meat from the animals I kill every ounce is like is more valuable
02:08:04 than gold to me.
02:08:04 And I take all the antlers, the hide.
02:08:07 I got, you know, claws.
02:08:10 I mean, it's like all that's all part of that memory of that hunt.
02:08:14 And I'm honoring that memory and that harvest, essentially.
02:08:18 But I'm also sharing that meat.
02:08:21 We eat the meat every night or every day.
02:08:23 And it's like, we're both.
02:08:24 We're not just because I meet people and they say, well, you're not you're not a trophy
02:08:28 hunter, are you?
02:08:29 I'm like, yeah, yeah, I am.
02:08:31 Yeah, I'm all kinds of hunters.
02:08:33 Yeah.
02:08:34 Well, you know, here's what's interesting is like we're so separated from the idea of
02:08:40 animals and just the wilderness itself being a resource in order to sustain you.
02:08:45 But during COVID, there was a bunch of people that reached out to me and wanted to start
02:08:52 hunting because they had this thought.
02:08:55 Because when like my friend Duncan went to the supermarket, he sent me a picture.
02:08:58 He's like, dude, there's no food.
02:08:59 Right.
02:09:00 He sent me a photo of the meat shelf, and there was literally like a package of ground
02:09:05 beef left.
02:09:06 There was nothing left because the supply chain got interrupted and people started
02:09:09 thinking, oh, my God, we could get to a part where I don't have any food.
02:09:13 Like, that's a real reality.
02:09:14 Yeah.
02:09:14 People felt vulnerable.
02:09:15 They felt vulnerable.
02:09:16 So the two things started happening to me during that people started reaching out, asking
02:09:21 me about hunting.
02:09:22 And then when the George Floyd riots kicked in, the guns, people wanted to borrow guns.
02:09:27 People asked to borrow guns.
02:09:29 How many guns do you have?
02:09:30 Can I have one of your guns?
02:09:32 Yeah.
02:09:32 I was like, that's not legal.
02:09:33 Because in Texas, I could just give you one, which is wild.
02:09:37 Like in Texas, you don't even have to fill out paperwork.
02:09:39 Like if you were a Texas resident and I was a Texas resident, I'm like, you like that
02:09:43 gun?
02:09:43 You can have it.
02:09:44 Oh, yeah.
02:09:44 I should say most places, but that's the norm.
02:09:47 That's the norm.
02:09:48 But in California, I was like, I can't do that.
02:09:50 It's absolutely illegal.
02:09:52 I could go to jail for giving you a gun.
02:09:54 You have to go through the whole process.
02:09:55 And then the lines outside the gun stores were wild.
02:09:59 Because what you can't do is you can't go down and buy.
02:10:03 You can't go down to the FFL, the federal.
02:10:07 You can't go down to a dealer gun store and buy it and say it's for you.
02:10:12 And then give it to someone.
02:10:14 But it's actually your buddy buying it.
02:10:16 That you definitely can't do.
02:10:17 Right.
02:10:18 You can't do that.
02:10:18 But in terms of you legitimately went and bought it for yourself, and then you decided
02:10:22 that you did not want it, you can gift that to a friend.
02:10:27 What they're trying to prevent is your buddy saying, hey, go down and buy it for me.
02:10:31 I'm a felon and can't.
02:10:32 Right.
02:10:32 That makes sense.
02:10:33 That's your ass.
02:10:34 So they don't really prosecute people for lying on FFL statements.
02:10:41 Interesting.
02:10:41 It's a real issue.
02:10:43 Well, yeah, that could be definitely an issue if someone's a felon.
02:10:45 I mean, but then there's also the.
02:10:47 They'll reject the purchase and not go after the person.
02:10:49 But when they have those gun fucking conventions, when you can go and just what do they call
02:10:54 those things?
02:10:54 When they gun shows, gun shows where people just you can.
02:10:57 That's a weird one, right?
02:10:58 Yeah.
02:10:59 It's like they kind of can skirt around some regulations.
02:11:03 That was part of the things that people didn't like.
02:11:05 When you hear in the gun control debate, people about trying to close the gun hole loopholes
02:11:10 or trying to put it that they should be subject to FFL transfers.
02:11:15 But when my dad died and I got my dad's guns, we didn't do an FFL transfer.
02:11:22 Right.
02:11:22 How does any kid get a.
02:11:24 Right.
02:11:26 So you get it from your dad or your grandpa.
02:11:28 Yeah.
02:11:28 Or like, here you go, son.
02:11:30 Right.
02:11:30 That's just how it works.
02:11:31 Wrapped up under the tree, man.
02:11:32 Yeah.
02:11:32 Yeah.
02:11:34 There's a lot of regulations that make sense, and there's a lot of them that don't.
02:11:38 And most of the ones that come out of California don't.
02:11:40 I mean, the limiting magazines, that's a fucking insane one.
02:11:44 Like down to 10 rounds for certain guns you can't even buy.
02:11:46 They're trying to do in Oregon, five rounds.
02:11:48 Oh my God.
02:11:50 That's a Washington already did that, right?
02:11:52 Maybe so.
02:11:53 Maybe that's why.
02:11:53 That is so crazy.
02:11:54 Yeah.
02:11:55 So what do you do if you have a Glock 16?
02:11:56 You don't.
02:11:57 Yeah.
02:11:58 I'm not sure.
02:11:59 I mean, that's fucking insane.
02:12:01 Yeah.
02:12:01 It's insane.
02:12:02 I can't remember.
02:12:03 I shouldn't speak that, but I know that there's a, there's, I don't know about on long guns.
02:12:07 There's a restriction, a magazine restriction.
02:12:11 What's interesting is for, for hunting waterfowl, federally regulated migratory waterfowl.
02:12:18 There's always been a magazine restriction in the field, three rounds.
02:12:23 And then as they're trying to lower snow geese numbers to protect Arctic habitats, they've
02:12:31 gone in and undone, they've made an exception to allow unlimited capacity magazines to hunt
02:12:38 snow geese.
02:12:39 So it's one of those weird areas where you're, where you see a real reversal of like a time
02:12:45 honored tradition, which is three rounds and you're gone to make it that people can kill
02:12:49 more snow geese.
02:12:50 That's an animal that I want to hunt with you one day.
02:12:52 The ribeye in the sky.
02:12:54 Oh, the cranes.
02:12:55 Yeah.
02:12:55 Sandhill cranes.
02:12:56 I remember those are insanely delicious.
02:12:58 It's great.
02:12:59 It's crazy when you see a bird that has like a dark red meat, it's like, what is this?
02:13:04 This isn't a chicken.
02:13:05 Yeah.
02:13:06 What the hell kind of bird is this?
02:13:08 Friend of mine, he's right where he said it's watching one of those come down out of the
02:13:12 skies, like watching a folding lawn chair hit the ground.
02:13:15 It's just the wild bird to hunt.
02:13:17 I bet.
02:13:18 You know, I, I asked this question to Waddell the other day, what do you guys think would
02:13:24 end hunting?
02:13:25 If anything does, do you think it would be, um, anti hunters, politics or fellow hunters
02:13:33 causing division and infighting and whatever.
02:13:37 Public referendums, politics,
02:13:39 Politics.
02:13:40 Yeah.
02:13:40 Urban centers, urban centers where people vote and they don't have an understanding
02:13:44 of what they're voting on.
02:13:44 You don't got to wonder about it.
02:13:46 You know, it's, it's happening.
02:13:48 Yeah.
02:13:48 It's like a, it's not theoretical.
02:13:50 Well, why would you say hunters though?
02:13:52 Like, like hunters in what way?
02:13:54 Well, they stop hunting.
02:13:55 Because I see fellow hunters.
02:13:57 There's so much infighting.
02:13:59 Whereas you look at the anti hunters, they're so aligned.
02:14:02 They're not like, oh,
02:14:03 Parsing out the this and that.
02:14:06 This guy is the number one anti hunter in the United States.
02:14:10 No, he's not.
02:14:10 He's a piece of shit that hunters love.
02:14:14 Like, yeah.
02:14:15 He ate a real anti hunter.
02:14:18 Yeah.
02:14:18 No, I'm, I'm he's a, he's a fucking private land.
02:14:22 He's ruining it for all of us.
02:14:25 The anti hunters.
02:14:26 He's a wolf in sheep's clothing.
02:14:27 It doesn't happen.
02:14:28 They are so aligned.
02:14:30 Right.
02:14:30 They get, they get, you know, they have the lobbyists working for them.
02:14:34 Meanwhile, hunters, fuck, we can't get out of our own way on half the shit.
02:14:38 Yeah.
02:14:39 But I have a long history of being a public person and I understand it from a different
02:14:43 dynamic because there's just a thing that happens with men where they become jealous of other men
02:14:50 and hateful of other people's success.
02:14:52 And then they look at other people for whatever reason, as anytime they do something, it takes
02:14:57 away from them, or they look at someone getting attention and somehow or another it takes away
02:15:01 from them and they focus entirely on that person's success or who that person is.
02:15:06 And they try to find flaws with them.
02:15:08 It's a natural thing with jealous, weak minded men.
02:15:11 Right.
02:15:12 So we have that in hunting.
02:15:14 Yeah.
02:15:14 You're going to have that in everything though.
02:15:15 We have that in comedy.
02:15:16 It's a real issue with standup comedy.
02:15:18 We have that in fighting.
02:15:19 Nobody's trying to ban comedy.
02:15:22 But they are.
02:15:23 You're wrong.
02:15:24 Yeah.
02:15:24 There's, there's shitty hunt or shitty comics that try to tell people what they can and can't
02:15:30 joke about.
02:15:30 Yeah.
02:15:31 Like what they all meant.
02:15:32 Yep.
02:15:32 They all suck.
02:15:33 There's one thing they have in common.
02:15:34 They're all not funny.
02:15:35 100% of them.
02:15:37 Every single one.
02:15:38 There's not a single one that's exceptional.
02:15:40 I just, it's not a single one that is anti comedy about controversial subjects that people
02:15:46 are excited to go to see them.
02:15:48 That are real comedy fans that are really good comics.
02:15:50 There's not a single anti like controversial joke comic that other comics seek out to go
02:15:57 see.
02:15:57 What's interesting is half your guests are your competitors.
02:16:00 Yeah.
02:16:01 Half your guests are comics.
02:16:03 Yeah.
02:16:03 But I don't think of comics ever as competitors.
02:16:05 I'm sure they're my tribe.
02:16:07 I try the best I can to get them more famous.
02:16:12 Yeah.
02:16:12 I want them to be huge.
02:16:13 My daughter had a book that described, um, she had a book about jealousy and it described
02:16:20 jealousy as a hot prickly feeling.
02:16:22 I've heard it as a vessel that poisons the thing that carries it.
02:16:29 Or I mean a substance that poisons the vessel that carries it, you know, and that's the
02:16:34 best way to look at it.
02:16:35 It doesn't do you any good, but it can do the opposite.
02:16:37 It can do the opposite.
02:16:38 If you have a good mindset, if you have a good mindset and you see someone and you're
02:16:42 envious, that can be fuel for your success.
02:16:44 As long as you manage it in your mind, like almost everything else, it's complicated.
02:16:49 You have to manage it in your mind as like, this can fuel me and be a fantastic resource.
02:16:55 When I see someone's success, I get inspired to work harder.
02:16:59 I get inspired to do more.
02:17:00 So I am happy that that person is successful.
02:17:02 So if you saw a comic coming up and they were kind of in your wheelhouse and nipping on
02:17:06 your heels, you'd be like, I'm going to have that son of a bitch on the show.
02:17:08 A hundred percent.
02:17:09 Every time I do it all the time.
02:17:12 Shine a spotlight on that.
02:17:13 100%.
02:17:14 That is my, that's, that's why I used to take Joey Diaz on the road with me because I couldn't
02:17:19 follow him.
02:17:19 I was like, he's so funny.
02:17:22 He was the funniest guy alive.
02:17:23 And people were like, you take Joey Diaz on the road with you.
02:17:26 Are you out of your fucking mind?
02:17:28 And I'm like, yeah, but, but if I can ride that wave.
02:17:31 You're setting yourself up to be that one guy that wasn't as funny as the other guy.
02:17:34 Oh, I would hear it all the time.
02:17:36 People would say, you know, you know, you're opening acts funnier than you.
02:17:38 I'm like, yeah, he's the best.
02:17:40 You have, you have a unique, you have a unique mindset that that's, that's all I worry about
02:17:46 or not all I worry about, but with hunters, we just, we have a hard time giving other
02:17:51 people credit, being supportive of each other, some of us.
02:17:55 And so with this, this disjointedness, that's what I get worried about.
02:17:59 But you know how that changes these conversations?
02:18:02 Yeah.
02:18:02 Well, it's out there in the zeitgeist.
02:18:04 People hear it.
02:18:04 They recognize their own failings, their own shortcomings and their own thought processes.
02:18:09 And then they realize this is not admirable.
02:18:10 Some people never will.
02:18:12 We can't afford it.
02:18:13 I mean, we can't afford, we can't, you know, so I'm thankful for outfits like Dan Gates
02:18:18 is in Colorado.
02:18:18 And then there's another one I wanted to mention called Howell.
02:18:21 Yeah.
02:18:22 And I think is it John Stallone?
02:18:24 Man, I know we had Dan Gates join us at a live show and he's, we got him scheduled to
02:18:30 come on the podcast as voting starts heating up on the, as voting starts heat or, you know,
02:18:36 as the, we start nearing the date for the initiative in Colorado.
02:18:40 Right.
02:18:40 I'm familiar with Howell.
02:18:42 I was introduced to Howell by my colleague, Yanis, who's a supporter and we've done some
02:18:48 things to support them, but man, that name, I probably met him, but just right now I'm
02:18:52 spacing it if I am.
02:18:53 So apologies to him.
02:18:55 I believe it's John Stallone, but, but anyway, it's, they are helping keep us organized
02:19:01 there, you know, make it easy to send letters to legislators and it's just,
02:19:06 Yeah, they're leading the fight on that.
02:19:07 They're leading the fight on the, on the hunting bands.
02:19:09 Right.
02:19:10 So, and that, and that, especially in that arena right there,
02:19:12 That's a positive.
02:19:13 That's a big one.
02:19:14 They're still like in the grand scheme of things, small, like if you look at numbers
02:19:18 of followers or things like that, but they're making an impact.
02:19:21 And so I've, I've been trying to, I want to support them and, and help where we can.
02:19:26 It's just, you know, this, you know, you're unique when you look at a comic, hot comic
02:19:31 coming up and you want to celebrate them.
02:19:32 I wish hunting could be more like that.
02:19:35 It can be, it can be.
02:19:36 Do you just gotta, these weak people have to understand that we know what they are.
02:19:40 We, we see right through them and you're not admirable.
02:19:43 Not only are you not admirable, you're not respected by your peers.
02:19:46 Everybody knows you're a bitch.
02:19:47 Nobody likes a bitch.
02:19:49 And when you're a man and you can't recognize another man's success, or you, you see a man
02:19:54 and you measure yourself up to him and you fall short.
02:19:56 And so you start shitting on that person.
02:19:58 Everybody knows what you're doing.
02:19:59 Every man knows what you're doing, especially every exceptional man.
02:20:03 They know 100% what you're doing.
02:20:05 So you have to live with that.
02:20:06 And that's how it's a poison that, that ruins the vessel that carries it.
02:20:12 It's not good for anybody.
02:20:14 And it's just a thing that people do.
02:20:17 People have always been jealous of other human beings throughout time, but you gotta understand
02:20:22 for your own personal benefit, that feeling can be changed inside of you to fuel, and
02:20:30 it will make you a better person.
02:20:31 It'll make you better at what you do.
02:20:33 It'll make you understand that competition is critical and vital in order for you to
02:20:38 reach your full potential.
02:20:39 You don't reach your full potential.
02:20:41 If you're the King and everybody else is a pussy, because then you're like, well, I'm
02:20:44 the King.
02:20:45 Everybody else is just a bitch.
02:20:46 I don't have to be any better.
02:20:47 But if you're a King around other Kings, you realize, wow, these guys are all fucking getting
02:20:52 up earlier than me, working harder than me, thinking smarter than me, being more effective,
02:20:57 recognizing their shortcomings, fixing them, talking about it with other people that do
02:21:01 the same and growing from each other.
02:21:04 You know, we have like in the mothership, the comedy club that I own, when we get together
02:21:09 in the green room during the shows, we're always breaking down bits.
02:21:13 We're talking.
02:21:14 We don't like hold secrets.
02:21:16 We don't have like trade secrets.
02:21:18 I don't want to tell anybody how I write.
02:21:20 I tell everybody how I write.
02:21:21 I tell everybody how I correct things.
02:21:23 I'm like, this is a thing that I've noticed that helps me.
02:21:25 Here's the thing that I've added.
02:21:26 I started listening to my recordings and doing this afterwards.
02:21:30 When I get home, I always do.
02:21:31 If you just do that for one hour every night, just think over time.
02:21:35 And then my other friends have said, I started doing that, dude.
02:21:38 You're right.
02:21:39 I just sat down for 10 minutes.
02:21:40 I had a new bit.
02:21:40 I wouldn't have come up with that bit if I didn't do that.
02:21:42 Like, yes.
02:21:43 Yeah, now we all learn from each other.
02:21:44 But if you see this one guy that's out there, that's putting in all this extra work and
02:21:50 succeeding and you just start shitting on him, everybody knows what you're doing.
02:21:56 You know what you're doing, motherfucker.
02:21:59 You know in your heart of hearts, you know, you're being a bitch, right?
02:22:03 And you can live with that if you like, but I can't.
02:22:06 I am allergic to that feeling in me.
02:22:09 I hate that feeling.
02:22:11 I've experienced it.
02:22:12 I know what it is.
02:22:13 It'll still bubble up every now and then if someone's killing it.
02:22:16 I'm like, wow, that guy's doing so good.
02:22:17 Motherfuck him.
02:22:18 You know, like that fuck him part of you is always there, but you got to go.
02:22:22 Oh, you little bitch.
02:22:23 I know what you are.
02:22:25 You're a little bitch, but if you can do that, this is in the mirror.
02:22:29 Yeah.
02:22:29 Yeah.
02:22:29 So it generally never gets the mirror.
02:22:32 It's like I try to squat that fucker as soon as it comes up like a weed.
02:22:36 I pull it out right away.
02:22:38 But if you don't do that, it's not good.
02:22:41 It's not good for you.
02:22:42 You never change people's opinions.
02:22:45 If someone is doing exceptional work and doing an exceptional job of being very unusually
02:22:52 successful, and then you start picking on all the little flaws in that person and people
02:22:57 are going to look at you, they're going to go, but you're kind of fat and lazy and you
02:23:01 fuck up all the time and you're always drunk and like this problem and that problem.
02:23:05 And how can we not looking at your own self with the same scrutiny that you look at this
02:23:09 extremely successful person?
02:23:11 It's because you're jealous.
02:23:13 That's all it is.
02:23:15 It's a natural human instinct.
02:23:17 But that feeling can be repurposed.
02:23:20 That thought can benefit you.
02:23:23 That feeling of comparing yourself and coming up short, what you're supposed to do is going,
02:23:27 what do I need to do so I don't have this feeling anymore?
02:23:30 Why do you work harder?
02:23:30 I need to work smarter.
02:23:32 I need to do some things and I'm not doing that maybe make me uncomfortable.
02:23:36 And that's what I need to do to get better.
02:23:38 Yeah.
02:23:38 You know, to your point last night, I saw two of the funniest people I've ever seen,
02:23:43 Shane and Tony, both putting notes in their phone from comments that were made in the
02:23:50 green room.
02:23:50 Yeah.
02:23:51 Oh, really?
02:23:51 Oh, we always do that.
02:23:52 Yeah.
02:23:52 So they're like, just like, oh, that's okay.
02:23:55 I'm going to put this down so I don't forget it.
02:23:57 Trying to grow.
02:23:58 You know, that's exactly what you're talking about.
02:24:00 They're, they're almost at the top of the game, still trying to get better based on
02:24:04 feedback from other comics.
02:24:06 We always do that.
02:24:07 We workshop constantly.
02:24:09 We're always in that green room.
02:24:10 And I was trying to explain that to one of the managers.
02:24:13 I was like, the reason why we have to like, when comics get together, like, we're at the
02:24:17 comics bar and we're all just talking shit.
02:24:19 Like, if someone is sensitive and they get in that and they start complaining about jokes
02:24:24 that are being told, hey, you've got to leave now because this is literally how we
02:24:27 spar.
02:24:28 Like, this is what we do.
02:24:30 If you're complaining that someone is making fun of this person or picking on that person,
02:24:34 creating an unsafe work environment.
02:24:36 Okay, well, you can't be here.
02:24:38 It's like, if you go to the gym and you're trying to be a boxer and you're like, everybody's
02:24:42 trying to hit me.
02:24:43 Like, that's what they do.
02:24:44 This is, this is how you get better.
02:24:46 You hit each other.
02:24:47 You don't like being hit.
02:24:48 You can't be here.
02:24:49 You can't fucking be here.
02:24:50 And that's, this is like, this is the reality of what we do.
02:24:53 And the only people that really truly know that are the practitioners.
02:24:57 The ones who are doing this very difficult thing.
02:25:00 Look, with standup comedy, there's a lot of hunters.
02:25:03 There's a thousand of us on earth that are worth a fuck.
02:25:07 It might be less.
02:25:08 I'm being generous.
02:25:09 It's probably 500.
02:25:11 It might be 250 that I want to see on planet earth, 250 comics that I would go out of my
02:25:17 way to see.
02:25:18 That's not a lot.
02:25:20 Like, we got to fucking stick together.
02:25:22 There's so few of us for you to be shitting on this guy because he's selling out arenas.
02:25:26 Why do you think people like him?
02:25:28 What is it?
02:25:30 What's he doing?
02:25:30 Well, he's doing something.
02:25:32 Fucking figure it out.
02:25:34 Get better.
02:25:34 I was curious.
02:25:37 Does comedy have the same in hunting?
02:25:39 It was a big deal when the girls started coming in.
02:25:42 Right.
02:25:43 So a lot of guys would say, oh, she's just getting this because she's got her tits out
02:25:48 or whatever.
02:25:48 Right.
02:25:49 Which is true.
02:25:50 And, but I could see, I could see comedy being the same.
02:25:53 Like, cause there are women comics.
02:25:55 Did you guys look at women and be like, she shouldn't be up there.
02:25:58 It's only, she's only up there.
02:25:59 Get to stage time.
02:26:00 Cause she's hot.
02:26:01 Well, comedy is a meritocracy.
02:26:03 The thing about comedy is if you're not funny, we find out real quick.
02:26:07 Nobody laughs at you just because your tits are out.
02:26:09 Well, the thing about hunting though, like there's, there's gals that become very popular
02:26:14 online that are just hot wearing camo.
02:26:17 And that's how I looked at it is if I can't be more, whatever, stand out more than this
02:26:23 girl, just cause she's hot.
02:26:25 I must not be that fucking good.
02:26:27 I think of it in terms of efficacy effectiveness.
02:26:30 Like if a girl is really hot and she's got big tits and camel, but she's also a beast
02:26:34 and she's out there really killing a lot of things.
02:26:36 How many?
02:26:37 Okay.
02:26:37 That's not very many.
02:26:38 Right.
02:26:38 So what are you worried about?
02:26:40 I'm not.
02:26:40 I know.
02:26:41 I know you're not, but some guys are.
02:26:43 But like, what are you worried about?
02:26:44 They're not effective.
02:26:45 Like if there's a girl that's hot and she gets on stage and she's bombing all the time,
02:26:49 no one's like, yeah, she's only up there cause she's hot.
02:26:52 Like you don't care.
02:26:53 Like if she's bombing, if someone's, if someone bombs all the time, you're like, get away
02:26:57 from me.
02:26:58 Like you don't want to be around them.
02:26:59 They're like, it's like, it's contagious.
02:27:01 I wish someone's good.
02:27:02 Like Whitney Cummings, Whitney Cummings is hot, but she's also really fucking funny.
02:27:07 Yeah.
02:27:07 And so when Whitney's just a real comic, when we're around Whitney, no one thinks, oh, here's
02:27:13 that hot chick.
02:27:14 That's just like, it's just like, oh, it's Whitney.
02:27:16 What's up?
02:27:17 It's like, she's one of us, but she also is hot.
02:27:20 It's hard to be that person.
02:27:22 It's very fucking rare, but it's doable.
02:27:25 But she had to go through all these ladders to get there because it is preconceived notions.
02:27:30 When you see a woman go on stage, you like immediately a lot of men I've been guilty
02:27:36 of it.
02:27:36 You know, what are the odds?
02:27:37 She's funny.
02:27:37 She's too hot.
02:27:38 It's like you almost immediately think you can't have it all.
02:27:41 Well, it's not that you think like, what, how did she ever like Richard, uh, uh, Christopher
02:27:45 Hitchens rather wrote, uh, a long piece for vanity fair once called women aren't funny.
02:27:50 It was brilliant.
02:27:52 He's, he was so fucking smart.
02:27:56 Christopher Hitchens.
02:27:56 Okay.
02:27:57 Cause he could attack things from a level of intellectual introspection.
02:28:05 Like he has looked at this in a way, like analyze his own thoughts on funny, how he
02:28:12 feels, how other people feel.
02:28:13 He broke it down so clearly that like female comics really couldn't even say anything about
02:28:19 it.
02:28:19 Cause what he was saying was true.
02:28:20 He was like, the ones that are funny are kind of dykey.
02:28:22 They're kind of like, they're, they're, you know, like, and then he's like, no, I'll go
02:28:26 back to attacking religion and other safe subjects.
02:28:29 But there's, there was, you know, it's that thing.
02:28:35 It's like, why do, why are men funny?
02:28:37 More men are funny for a lot of reasons to impress women.
02:28:40 That's how they learn to do it, to impress their friends.
02:28:42 Like it's a part of the natural banter that men have when they get together.
02:28:46 Women don't necessarily have that same banter.
02:28:49 Some do, but most don't.
02:28:51 And women don't have to be funny to attract men.
02:28:54 They just have to look good.
02:28:55 So they think they're funny.
02:28:56 Cause guys are laughing at anything.
02:28:58 Cause they want to sleep with them.
02:28:59 They're like, Oh, you're so funny.
02:29:01 I remember when we were young, someone pointing out that for a girl to say a guy was nice,
02:29:06 it's not good.
02:29:07 All right.
02:29:08 They're like, dude, she said, you're nice.
02:29:11 They're like, if she says that he's funny, that's a real good sign.
02:29:15 Yeah.
02:29:16 Yeah, it's true.
02:29:17 It's true.
02:29:18 Cause you don't want the nice thing.
02:29:19 There's less funny women, but the women that are funny, I respect the shit out of them
02:29:24 because it's so hard to do, especially first of all, your subject matter is limited.
02:29:29 Cause nobody wants to see a woman talking about politics on stage.
02:29:33 Very few men want to see a woman with like very strong political opinions on the shut
02:29:38 the fuck up.
02:29:38 They get mad.
02:29:39 And then if you talk about sex, you talk about sex too much.
02:29:42 Oh, she's a slut.
02:29:43 Like there's all these thoughts.
02:29:45 That's always struck me as the unfair thing is how much guys get uncomfortable by that.
02:29:49 Oh, totally unfair.
02:29:50 Yeah.
02:29:51 Totally unfair guys get real like, Oh, but it does create a situation for a woman comic
02:30:00 that if a woman comic can navigate that they become undeniable.
02:30:04 If you can navigate all those preconceived ideas that people have about you before you
02:30:08 go on stage, but yet you still succeed at making them laugh.
02:30:11 That's black belt shit.
02:30:13 That's a high level comedy.
02:30:15 That's what Whitney can do.
02:30:16 Yeah.
02:30:16 You know, I've seen people look at her when she gets on stage and they're like, she's
02:30:23 hot.
02:30:24 And then she starts killing and they're like, God damn it.
02:30:27 She's fucking funny.
02:30:28 And then after a while you just give in.
02:30:29 You're like, wow, she's fucking great.
02:30:31 And then you're laughing.
02:30:31 You're just enjoying yourself.
02:30:33 But it's much more complex.
02:30:35 Whereas a fat guy gets on stage and he's already funny.
02:30:39 It's funny looking big fat, stupid looking guy.
02:30:41 And he started talking about himself being fat.
02:30:43 And then, you know, you got a lot of people, a lot of leeway.
02:30:47 Yeah.
02:30:47 You know, I want to return to for a minute you talk about after, you know, comics being
02:30:54 in the green room, workshopping.
02:30:56 If in Colorado, they lose this ballot initiative about hunting bobcats and hunting mountain
02:31:06 lions around this definition of trophy hunting and America's hunters get together in the
02:31:12 green room and workshop what went wrong.
02:31:14 I think they're going to determine that what went wrong is not identifying with and fighting
02:31:24 for people who are engaged in activity that a specific segment of the activity that you're
02:31:30 not engaged with.
02:31:31 Right.
02:31:31 And needing to come into the awareness that like this, as this plays out, this will get
02:31:40 around to impacting you.
02:31:42 Yes.
02:31:42 But you have to have that ability to do that.
02:31:44 This is going to get around.
02:31:46 This is like the next thing that comes up is going to be something that is going to
02:31:49 like strike at you near and dear.
02:31:51 It's going to be bow hunting is cruel, unnecessarily cruel.
02:31:56 Right.
02:31:56 Yeah.
02:31:57 There are people that have that perspective that are hunters.
02:32:00 Yeah.
02:32:00 And then they're going to, then you're going to be like, you're going to freak out.
02:32:03 Yeah.
02:32:04 Yeah.
02:32:05 Yeah.
02:32:05 When they start coming, this is going too far.
02:32:07 Yeah.
02:32:08 Yeah.
02:32:08 Then you'll be, you'll be the one that you, you ignored when other, uh, you'll be
02:32:14 ignored when other traditional use practices.
02:32:16 We're getting eliminated because it didn't affect you.
02:32:19 And then now here it is on your doorstep.
02:32:21 There's also a thing about hunters where they're competitive in a different way than
02:32:25 like saying comparison to standup comics, cause standup comics, you have that audience
02:32:30 to yourself.
02:32:31 It's not like they killed the audience.
02:32:33 The audience doesn't exist anymore.
02:32:35 Like I had a great audience.
02:32:36 I'd you kill them all.
02:32:37 You fucking piece of shit.
02:32:38 That's a good point.
02:32:38 Now this is the audience sucks.
02:32:40 Yeah.
02:32:41 But if like you go to the mountains and you kill a 400 inch bull, like that's a 400 inch
02:32:46 bull that's gone now.
02:32:48 I can't kill that bull now.
02:32:49 Oh, he fucking kills all the big bulls.
02:32:51 No bulls left.
02:32:52 Audiences are always there.
02:32:54 And the more comics that are really funny, the more it makes comedy grow and you get
02:32:59 more audiences.
02:33:00 You're not assassinating them.
02:33:02 Yeah.
02:33:02 But you could be competing with them on any given night though.
02:33:06 You're both in Toledo on Monday.
02:33:08 Sort of.
02:33:09 But when it's your opportunity, it's your opportunity and it's just your own shortcomings
02:33:14 that are allowing you to fail in comparison to them.
02:33:17 It's not them doing something.
02:33:18 It's not like they're yelling at you from the side of the stage trying to fuck up your
02:33:21 routine.
02:33:22 You know what I'm saying?
02:33:23 Yeah.
02:33:23 But it's like when you have your time, that's your time.
02:33:27 And that's.
02:33:27 Yeah.
02:33:28 I think, you know, with a bull, there's more bulls though.
02:33:31 You know, it's not like there's just one.
02:33:33 But there's not a lot of 400 inch bulls.
02:33:35 No.
02:33:35 And if you're a public land hunter and there's a specific unit and there's, you know, it's
02:33:40 allocated 150 tags for a specific unit and everybody's in there hiking out and one guy
02:33:46 shoots his big ass bull.
02:33:48 That's a big ass bull that you're not going to be able to kill.
02:33:50 Yeah.
02:33:50 And so there's a different level of competition because even though it's a renewable resource,
02:33:55 it's a limited resource.
02:33:57 And there's also exceptional aspects that resource like an enormous animal, a very unusual
02:34:03 rare outlier of an animal that if someone kills it now you can't.
02:34:06 So there's that competition.
02:34:08 And then there's also the fucking dick measuring thing where guys are taking grip and grins.
02:34:14 You know, one of the things that's really disturbing to me is the numbers thing.
02:34:17 You know, I was talking to a friend of mine who was a guide and he was furious because
02:34:24 this guy who is this well-known hunter shot a mule deer and it was a beautiful mule deer,
02:34:30 but it was only 189 inches.
02:34:33 He wanted a 190?
02:34:35 He wanted 200 inch.
02:34:37 And he didn't think of it as like, he's like, it's just a, just a buck.
02:34:40 And this guy was like, I would cut off my left nut to shoot that fucking buck.
02:34:45 And this guy is this rich, famous hunter who goes in and he's complaining about it.
02:34:50 He's not even appreciating this thing.
02:34:52 Ah, it's a buck.
02:34:54 Just a buck.
02:34:54 Just a buck.
02:34:55 That's a giant buck.
02:34:56 It's a giant old seven, eight year old deer.
02:34:58 That's a giant.
02:34:59 Dude, I'll yeah, but it's funny.
02:35:01 I'll get something.
02:35:03 I have a lot of stuff that I've never measured.
02:35:05 Never will.
02:35:05 Um, I got a really nice moose this year.
02:35:09 I don't, you know, I don't even, I don't, no one measures.
02:35:11 I shouldn't say no one.
02:35:11 Yeah.
02:35:12 Pretty much no one measures moose.
02:35:14 You tell about how wide they are and you leave it at that.
02:35:16 But I will have stuff for now and then someone's like, uh, you know, around me that likes to do
02:35:22 that.
02:35:22 And I'd be like, dude, measure that thing.
02:35:23 I'm just curious about it.
02:35:24 Right.
02:35:25 Yeah.
02:35:25 I mean, it's like, I don't hate the, it's a point of reference.
02:35:28 Yeah. I don't hate the number system.
02:35:30 I get curious about, like, I'm curious about all aspects of all, all aspects of hunting
02:35:36 and wildlife and, and the boon and crocket system is of interest to me.
02:35:39 Yeah.
02:35:40 I don't live and die by it.
02:35:41 But I mean, you know, at times I'm not curious what that is, but if someone shot a real stomper,
02:35:47 I might be like, what does that mean?
02:35:49 Dude?
02:35:49 Like, well, what did it take?
02:35:50 Put a tape?
02:35:50 That's what I, that's what I do too.
02:35:53 I don't necessarily care about what, if I kill something just because I just was there.
02:35:58 Mature animal.
02:35:58 I'm not, I'm not thinking about, is this 400?
02:36:01 Is this anything?
02:36:02 And I said this the other day and talking to Waddell, it's like, you know, people talk
02:36:07 about that.
02:36:08 You get great opportunities to hunt, you know?
02:36:10 I mean, that's just all there is to it.
02:36:11 But I said, Joe, I've never heard Joe talk about a score of something, or he didn't want
02:36:17 to kill it.
02:36:17 Cause I said, he doesn't care.
02:36:19 There's been one Antlered elk that he's like, he would kill it.
02:36:24 Right.
02:36:26 I've tried to.
02:36:26 Yeah.
02:36:27 And you're fine with it.
02:36:28 Pulled me off.
02:36:28 I'm like, I don't care.
02:36:29 I'm going to eat that.
02:36:31 Right.
02:36:31 And he's a big bull.
02:36:32 Like I kind of, I think it's kind of cool when they have broken out.
02:36:34 Right.
02:36:34 So it doesn't bother me at all.
02:36:36 People will take shots at you.
02:36:37 Cause you killed a giant bull and this and that, and they've been hunting their whole
02:36:41 lives.
02:36:41 It's like, you don't give a fuck.
02:36:44 You just want to hunt.
02:36:45 You're hunting.
02:36:46 Yeah.
02:36:46 And you don't care what it scores.
02:36:47 You're not after like the biggest bull on the mountain.
02:36:49 You just love hunting.
02:36:51 And like, that's the truth.
02:36:53 People can turn it into whatever they want.
02:36:55 Yeah.
02:36:55 They're wrong.
02:36:56 I'm like Daniel Boone, man.
02:36:57 I go to the best hunting place I can go.
02:36:59 Yeah.
02:37:00 Yeah.
02:37:00 You should.
02:37:00 Like, I don't know many people that, yeah.
02:37:02 I don't know many people that they said like, Hey man, we're going to go on family vacation.
02:37:06 And we found this sweet spot, but then we got to thinking we should actually go to family
02:37:11 vacation in the shitty spot.
02:37:13 Yeah.
02:37:13 Well, it's also all the, it's the same thing that we're talking about with jealousy.
02:37:18 If those people had the resources that I have, and if you didn't do what I do, you're a
02:37:22 moron.
02:37:23 You don't go to the places where there's elk screaming all over the place.
02:37:26 And it's awesome.
02:37:27 I'm always looking for good opportunities.
02:37:29 I mean, I'll take the shitty ones too, because I'm looking to get out all the time.
02:37:32 So I'll take the shitty ones.
02:37:34 I'll take the good ones, but I'm going to generally, like, if I get to a, if I'm at a
02:37:38 fork in the trail and one side is like good and one side's bad, I'm going up the good
02:37:44 one.
02:37:45 A hundred percent of the time.
02:37:46 Yeah.
02:37:46 Yeah.
02:37:48 It's just a resource thing.
02:37:49 You know, like, do you have the ability to do that?
02:37:52 If you don't, you might criticize people to do, Oh, ever since I was a little kid, we
02:37:56 went to the, I think I did the best thing, you know, I went to the best spot I could
02:38:03 get my best fish in all always.
02:38:05 Yeah.
02:38:07 I mean, you're right.
02:38:08 It's a resource thing.
02:38:09 Cause when I started where I killed that spike bull that I talked about earlier, that was
02:38:13 warehouse or timber company land.
02:38:16 Anybody could go there.
02:38:17 Everybody could go there.
02:38:19 Fricking hard hunting to kill a bull with a bow.
02:38:22 So hard up there that was as tough as it got.
02:38:25 Right.
02:38:25 So then I'm like, well, God, we could go to the wilderness.
02:38:28 It's more open.
02:38:30 It's on the East side of the state where I was hunting the West side of the state.
02:38:33 The bulls are more vocal.
02:38:35 It's the high country.
02:38:36 That's better hunting God.
02:38:37 But that costs, we've got to drive all the way eight hours across the state.
02:38:40 We need gas money.
02:38:42 We need food when we're there.
02:38:43 We're not just going home every night, but it was better hunting.
02:38:45 So yeah, Roy sold a gun.
02:38:48 We got some money.
02:38:49 We drove over there, better hunting.
02:38:51 Then it was like, shit, Oregon, Oregon sucks hunting wise compared to other States.
02:38:57 It's like, I wonder if I could hunt Wyoming put in for general tag in Wyoming, drew it
02:39:03 killed a six by six bowl.
02:39:04 Next time I drew it killed a seven by six.
02:39:07 I'm like, God, this is so much better than Oregon, but it's $1,100 for this premium
02:39:11 elk tag that I was putting in for.
02:39:12 Got to work a little harder.
02:39:14 Got to come up with some more resource.
02:39:16 You said it's, it's a resource that you're allocating, worked a little harder.
02:39:21 That was better hunting.
02:39:22 It's just that process.
02:39:23 I started with the shittiest hunting you can get in the shittiest state to hunt.
02:39:27 Maybe Washington's about it.
02:39:28 No, my state was way shittier than your state.
02:39:30 Yeah, exactly.
02:39:33 So you keep working.
02:39:35 Don't you give me shit.
02:39:36 Michigan is that where I had quite good on this joke.
02:39:46 But that's how people think.
02:39:47 It's true.
02:39:48 You're right.
02:39:48 But anyway, the point is, is like you keep working, you keep moving up the ladder to
02:39:52 get to better hunting.
02:39:54 Yeah.
02:39:54 Now it crosses the line.
02:39:56 And I do understand when people are killing high fence animals in small properties and
02:40:02 they're making it look like this is a wild animal.
02:40:05 Yeah.
02:40:06 There's there, there comes a line and that line gets crossed all the fucking time right
02:40:11 here in Texas.
02:40:12 Yeah.
02:40:12 I know people that have, I know a guy who has a 200 acre high fence property and I'm
02:40:19 like, Ooh, I don't know.
02:40:21 I don't think I can go there.
02:40:22 That's rough.
02:40:22 I can't go there.
02:40:23 If you have a 15, 20,000 acre high fence property, I'm like, okay, what are the odds those animals,
02:40:30 unless it's a mule deer, it's a migratory animal.
02:40:33 What are the odds those animals would ever get out of that 15,000 acres in their normal
02:40:37 natural life?
02:40:38 As long as you're not feeding them, if you're not like, like I'm standing over a feeder
02:40:42 waiting for them to show up at 5:00 PM.
02:40:44 As long as it's not that it's just hunting.
02:40:47 And when people start talking about private land versus public, I understand the appeal
02:40:52 and I understand that public land should be available to everybody.
02:40:55 And I agree.
02:40:56 And I think it's an amazing thing that we have here in America, where we have these
02:40:59 resources where any person can go to a place where you can get a general tag and go to
02:41:05 public land and hunt.
02:41:06 I think it's amazing.
02:41:07 But you're also dealing with animals that are acting in a very unnatural way because
02:41:12 they're highly pressured.
02:41:13 So if you have a lot of hunters and a lot of pressured animals, you're dealing with
02:41:18 an animal that's not acting like a wild animal.
02:41:20 You're dealing with something that's being constantly harassed.
02:41:23 And that to me is unnatural.
02:41:26 Well, that then you get into like a history debate because you're on landscapes that
02:41:30 have been hunted.
02:41:31 But I would agree that high pressure absolutely.
02:41:38 Changes everything about how they conduct their business.
02:41:44 You're also competing with other guys like I've talked to guys that have had situations
02:41:48 where they know that they are downwind or they're upwind rather.
02:41:54 Their wind is going to come down on an animal, but they see someone stalking that animal
02:41:57 and they try to get to it first and they know they're going to bust it.
02:42:00 They know it and they don't give a they would rather bust it.
02:42:03 They have the other guy kill it.
02:42:04 Yeah, they take a chance.
02:42:06 And there's so many morons that are doing it.
02:42:09 I think the best case scenario is human beings interacting with absolutely wild animals in
02:42:17 a way where these animals aren't acting as natural as they would be as if human beings
02:42:22 didn't exist.
02:42:23 That's best case scenario.
02:42:24 Yeah.
02:42:25 And if you can get to the most remote places, that's where you can get that in the most
02:42:30 wild places.
02:42:30 I will say your example about you didn't want somebody else to kill us or you're going to
02:42:35 go down.
02:42:36 I've probably done that before.
02:42:37 When I was hunting, it's like every man for himself.
02:42:42 Yeah.
02:42:42 I've raised people.
02:42:44 I mean, I've also backed out of races.
02:42:46 Yeah.
02:42:46 It just felt too weird and I'm like, I'm not going to do this.
02:42:50 Because I remember, here's how much I wanted to protect.
02:42:53 In that same logging country, I would go out and the road would end maybe,
02:42:59 I didn't want to drive out to the logging unit because that's going to spook all the
02:43:02 deer, especially in the headlights before it's light and you're out there waiting.
02:43:06 So I'd park like half a mile back and walk out there.
02:43:10 But I didn't want anybody else driving out there.
02:43:11 So I'd park in the middle of the road sideways, leave my truck there.
02:43:15 It's like, I'm not saying you can't come out there, but you're not driving.
02:43:18 People lost their shit.
02:43:23 I mean, I would hear gunshots going off of my truck.
02:43:26 Then I'm like, "Fuck, are they shooting my truck?"
02:43:29 Or, "Are they going to shoot me?"
02:43:30 So I did a lot of this crazy stuff.
02:43:33 I mean, I'm very competitive.
02:43:35 I did want to also clarify one point because you said animals on 15,000 acres wouldn't
02:43:42 be reacting.
02:43:44 They wouldn't know they were in a fence type thing.
02:43:45 Because I've seen people say crazy shit about
02:43:48 our hunting, but the bulls you kill are not in a fence.
02:43:54 No, it's not a fence.
02:43:54 Have never been in a fence.
02:43:55 Always been fair chase.
02:43:57 I've even said, "Oh, these bulls run beta blockers."
02:44:00 Some crazy bullshit.
02:44:01 Beta blockers?
02:44:02 Beta blockers.
02:44:03 On bulls?
02:44:04 To limit their adrenaline spike?
02:44:07 I don't even know what the hell it'd do.
02:44:08 So beta blockers, like athletes can't use them.
02:44:12 And there's certain sports.
02:44:12 They should not be scared.
02:44:13 Yeah, it kills your adrenaline spike.
02:44:15 So people say crazy shit.
02:44:17 I don't want them turning in that you are validating a big high fence area.
02:44:23 No, I've never done that.
02:44:24 No.
02:44:24 I don't do that.
02:44:25 The bulls you're hunting are wild, fair chase.
02:44:28 There's predators around.
02:44:29 There's lions, there's bears.
02:44:31 There's, I mean, this is wild elk.
02:44:33 So I just want to make that clear because people say, they say crazy shit.
02:44:37 Maybe even 15,000 acres is not a good example.
02:44:40 So let's say like the four, six ranch that my friend Taylor shared.
02:44:44 It's 270,000 acres.
02:44:48 Wow.
02:44:49 Yeah.
02:44:49 Really?
02:44:49 Yeah.
02:44:50 He doesn't fence that.
02:44:51 No.
02:44:52 That would be a lot of money in a fence.
02:44:53 You know what I'm saying?
02:44:54 But even if he did, you know, that's like, fuck.
02:44:58 Yeah.
02:44:59 Like that's where they live.
02:45:00 You know, you just put a fence to keep other people from going in.
02:45:03 You're really not, you're not stop.
02:45:04 That's like natural habitat.
02:45:05 Yeah.
02:45:06 I mean, the whole carpentry is fenced in by oceans.
02:45:08 You could look at it that way.
02:45:11 I've never done it and I've had like occasion to debate people about it, but I still like,
02:45:19 maybe I used to be a little friskier about arguing about all the finer points, but it's just, it's,
02:45:25 um, I haven't done it.
02:45:29 Uh, I just, I don't really think about it.
02:45:32 You know what I mean?
02:45:32 It's not the same thing.
02:45:33 You know, like when I talk to guys who hunt out here and most of them are pretty honest about it,
02:45:38 the way they do it, like the hunt over feeders, these are not people that hunt a lot.
02:45:42 They don't practice a lot, but when they get a chance, it's essentially like a kind of
02:45:46 harvesting animals.
02:45:47 It's almost like a type of farming because you're, if you're hunting over a feeder and
02:45:51 like, they'll put you in a tree stand and say, all right, the feeder goes off at five o'clock.
02:45:55 You're like, what?
02:45:56 No, it's a collision of animal.
02:45:57 It's a collision of husbandry and animal husbandry of hunting and animal husbandry,
02:46:02 where you're using the sort of harvest tactics of hunting, but you're employing a lot of the
02:46:07 principles of animal husbandry.
02:46:09 Yeah.
02:46:09 It's not the same thing.
02:46:11 It's not going into the mountains.
02:46:13 Like we do, like we're hunting in Utah or you're going to Colorado, you're going in the mountains.
02:46:17 Yeah.
02:46:17 Well, wild animals, they're unfenced.
02:46:20 And to that point, it's not guaranteed.
02:46:23 I mean, when we were there this last season, great, it's great property.
02:46:28 I mean, I, nobody could argue that it's incredible elk hunting, but there was hunters the week we
02:46:33 were there who didn't kill the week after we were there.
02:46:36 Seven guys did not kill.
02:46:38 Well, the week we were there, only three did.
02:46:42 So-
02:46:42 Only three guys killed in a bow.
02:46:44 People make it sound like it's just shooting fish in a barrel and guaranteed a hundred percent.
02:46:48 It's like-
02:46:49 How many hunters were there the week we were there?
02:46:51 I'm not sure.
02:46:52 There was, there had to be 30.
02:46:55 I don't know.
02:46:58 It's a big piece of property.
02:46:59 And it's fucking hard, man.
02:47:00 And you got to be in shape.
02:47:02 Yeah.
02:47:02 You got to be in real-
02:47:03 We put in miles.
02:47:04 Miles.
02:47:04 10 miles a day.
02:47:05 10 miles a day through the mountains.
02:47:07 At the end of the day, you're fucking exhausted and you're eating everything you can get in your
02:47:11 face.
02:47:12 You're so tired.
02:47:13 And then you're getting up in the morning and you're doing it again.
02:47:15 And the idea that somehow or another that's cheating, you can think that if you like,
02:47:20 but if you do it and you go there, you won't think that.
02:47:23 If you go there, you're like, "Oh, this is just an amazing opportunity in a beautiful
02:47:28 landscape where wild animals live unmolested."
02:47:31 There's still lions there.
02:47:34 Oh, the one that we saw.
02:47:36 That was the first time I never saw a full-grown big-ass cat in the wild.
02:47:39 It's like, "Wow."
02:47:41 I got to watch one miss a deer down in Mexico this year.
02:47:43 It was really cool.
02:47:44 Oh, wow.
02:47:45 Yeah.
02:47:45 I watched him come in.
02:47:47 It was a doe.
02:47:48 She was traveling.
02:47:50 I watched him come in ahead of her and he kept looking down and trying to guess her trajectory
02:47:55 and got and laid down and then missed her.
02:47:59 Did he go after her and missed her?
02:48:01 Oh, yeah.
02:48:01 Yeah.
02:48:02 Wow.
02:48:02 Like, you couldn't even tell.
02:48:03 I mean, it was like a ball of fur, dude.
02:48:05 And she comes squirt.
02:48:06 Well, I'm kind of simplifying it where there was a forky I didn't know about.
02:48:10 And she got up right next to this forky and then the lion blew out and kind of first tried to
02:48:17 roll that forky and then sort of sprang out of that and tried to get the doe.
02:48:23 But it was like he was flock shooting.
02:48:26 Oh, he didn't have a target.
02:48:28 He probably, if you asked him, he probably had a target.
02:48:30 But man, it ran like hell.
02:48:32 Wow.
02:48:33 But it was cool to see, dude.
02:48:34 That was the second lion I saw that night.
02:48:35 Yeah.
02:48:36 Oh, wow.
02:48:36 That was a rarity.
02:48:37 Yeah.
02:48:38 When I was in Colorado this year, in the week that I was there, I killed a bull,
02:48:43 buck and a bear in that week.
02:48:44 I saw four lions.
02:48:45 Hmm.
02:48:46 Wow.
02:48:47 So many lions in that country.
02:48:48 That's a lifetime supply for seeing them without dogs.
02:48:51 It's a, it was insane, but it's a, yeah, I was going to say that story reminded me of,
02:48:58 you said the flock shooting.
02:48:59 I remember this old guy who'd come back from the hunting camp when I first started.
02:49:03 He's like, you see anything?
02:49:04 He's like, yeah, yeah.
02:49:06 So I got on a good herd.
02:49:08 I said, did you get a shot?
02:49:09 He's like, yeah, yeah.
02:49:11 What happened?
02:49:11 He's like, well, I shot over some and I shot under some.
02:49:15 I can just envision that there's a herd and try to get an arrow in one of them.
02:49:24 But yeah, it's a, you imagine being a native American with fucking handmade bow
02:49:31 chasing after those things.
02:49:33 I bet shit didn't spook 200 yards away back then.
02:49:36 Yeah, that's true.
02:49:37 Yeah.
02:49:38 We know that the first I'm trying to think, man, the first three or so deer I got, I got on,
02:49:43 when I was a kid, I killed first year and I was 13.
02:49:47 The first three or so deer I got, I got all on private property.
02:49:50 And then I killed, I went into the white river, kind of the, we just called the white river
02:49:58 swamp, but down on national forest land and killed a fawn one October with my bow.
02:50:05 And you didn't hear people like people didn't celebrate public land hunting.
02:50:09 Then it was like, you were slumming it.
02:50:11 So you were there.
02:50:13 Cause he couldn't get no farmer was going to let you, you didn't know any farmers.
02:50:17 Right.
02:50:17 You know, if you went out on public land in Michigan and you went to anybody that was on
02:50:21 public land and said, Hey, do you want to hunt like the farm over there?
02:50:24 No one is like out of principle by God, I'm staying here.
02:50:28 They would just, they would go to the farm.
02:50:31 But when I did get that fawn deer, which I killed over a bait pile in the white river
02:50:38 swamp, it felt good, man.
02:50:41 Like, you know what I mean?
02:50:42 Like I was aware of having did this thing that I would have to have, and did this thing
02:50:47 that I would have regarded as almost like semi impossible, right.
02:50:51 You know, to pull that off.
02:50:52 I have a deep respect for people that can shoot mature animals on public.
02:50:57 That is very hard to do.
02:50:59 And it's very, and I get that you would have a higher sense of pride.
02:51:03 I totally get it.
02:51:05 I've gotten, I've gotten a handful.
02:51:07 I've gotten like four big mule deer.
02:51:09 Um, nice mule deer.
02:51:13 I've never killed a mule deer on private property and I got four good mule deer on public
02:51:18 property.
02:51:19 And like that, like, I can't deny that that sort of means a thing to me.
02:51:27 Yeah.
02:51:27 Do you know, not that I wouldn't like if someone tomorrow, if I drew some tag in some
02:51:30 area and some guys like, Oh, hunt my ranch, I go,
02:51:33 hunt their ranch all day long.
02:51:42 But it just has sort of like happens that that's true.
02:51:45 And I don't look at it and think differently of it the same way, all kinds of factors
02:51:51 play into it, you know, but every year, like I've gotten some big coos here and I've never
02:51:55 all the coos here I've killed on big private ranches in Mexico.
02:51:58 Um, except for Arizona, but gotten nice to have big private ranches in Mexico and love
02:52:04 the experience.
02:52:05 It's just, I like all, I mean, I'm into all that stuff, man.
02:52:09 Yeah.
02:52:09 I get why people would think a certain way, cause it's very similar in a lot of ways to
02:52:14 bow hunting versus rifle hunting.
02:52:15 Yeah.
02:52:16 A little bit more someone that kills a big bull with a rifle.
02:52:19 You're like, yeah, that's, that's a big bull, man.
02:52:22 That's awesome.
02:52:23 But if you see some of the kids, a big bowl with a bow, you're like, Whoa, that's a bigger
02:52:26 deal.
02:52:26 And it's, it feels way different as someone who shot bowls with rifles and shot bowl with
02:52:32 a bow and arrow.
02:52:32 You cannot compare in my feet, the way it makes me feel when I make a perfect 52 yard
02:52:39 shot.
02:52:40 And I watched that arrow go into the crease behind the shoulder and he watched that bull
02:52:45 buck up and you know, you got them.
02:52:46 You're like, Whoa, it's like, there's nothing like it.
02:52:51 There's nothing like it.
02:52:52 There's nothing.
02:52:53 I was hunting with Evan Hafer from black rifle coffee this past October.
02:52:57 We were both Elk hunting at this ranch and, uh, I shot this bowl and it was like on the
02:53:03 fifth day of a six day hunt.
02:53:05 It was a lot of, and there's a lot of fucking missed opportunities.
02:53:08 A lot of getting winded, a lot of, a lot of shit went down.
02:53:11 But when I finally snuck in and it was a long ass stock, it was like, it took me an hour
02:53:19 and a half to cover about 40 or 50 yards.
02:53:23 Cause I was, the, the, the elk was bedded and I was barefoot.
02:53:26 I was just in my socks and I was just slowly creeping, slowly.
02:53:32 And every time he'd move his head, I'd stop.
02:53:33 And I was slowly creeping.
02:53:35 When I finally released that arrow and it hit that bowl and I heard that whack and the
02:53:40 bull literally ran 30, 40 yards and piled up the woo that I let out.
02:53:46 You could have heard it a fucking mile away.
02:53:50 I, they heard it on the other side of the Canyon.
02:53:52 They were watching with binoculars and they heard, wow, because it's so different.
02:53:57 But I shot it with a rifle.
02:53:59 I'd still be pumped.
02:54:00 It's a beautiful bowl.
02:54:01 It's meat.
02:54:02 I'm psyched.
02:54:02 I got all this food now.
02:54:03 This is incredible.
02:54:04 This is what I wanted.
02:54:05 This is what I was working for, but it's harder.
02:54:07 It's harder to do on public land.
02:54:09 It's harder to do with a bow.
02:54:10 There's all these little factors that like any accomplishment, there's all these little
02:54:16 factors that wind up, um, you know, elevating experience or, or some other thing, you know?
02:54:24 And then you get into like where I'm at now in life, where for me, the, the high, like
02:54:29 the most elevated experiences that I have to witness my kids do something to take my
02:54:34 kids hunting.
02:54:34 Yeah.
02:54:34 Well, Cam always talks about that.
02:54:36 Like his favorite experiences when he takes people for their first time.
02:54:39 Like you were telling me that the time you took that woman, she shot that deer and you
02:54:44 guys are eating it.
02:54:45 Like, is it getting any better than this?
02:54:47 No, you introduce something to this thing that you love.
02:54:49 You have deep passion for, they get to experience, you see them get lit up.
02:54:53 I mean, you've done that so many times.
02:54:54 I wanted to take Steve on that hunt.
02:54:57 I think I mentioned that too.
02:54:58 Yeah.
02:54:58 We did text about that.
02:54:59 That was, I just missed out.
02:55:00 You missed it.
02:55:01 You're done.
02:55:02 That's it.
02:55:03 But, uh, no, I just, especially that one, because that's Oregon blacktail, which I grew
02:55:07 up hunting in Western Oregon.
02:55:08 So I really love sharing, you know, the small little logging community, the bad-ass loggers
02:55:14 there that are tough as hell, just that little Western Oregon vibe.
02:55:19 I love sharing that.
02:55:20 But then she also killed a big four by four buck with the eye guards, just this old, big
02:55:27 old buck.
02:55:27 And it was, then we, you know, of course packed it out as a steep logging unit.
02:55:32 Then we cooked it up the next morning.
02:55:34 It definitely the highlight.
02:55:37 I killed quite a few animals this year.
02:55:38 None better than that.
02:55:40 That was the highlight.
02:55:42 I didn't kill it.
02:55:42 Yeah.
02:55:43 But it was just that experience.
02:55:44 It's, uh, yeah, there's nothing, you know, in my kids, I took true at the same.
02:55:48 He killed a buck down there too, this year.
02:55:50 So yeah, it's, uh, you know, you get to where, and I said, I was very competitive, very tunnel
02:55:56 vision.
02:55:57 It was all about me and that, you know, with age that changes and then you're like, no,
02:56:02 I want to, I want to share this with people.
02:56:04 Yeah.
02:56:04 So it's, uh, well, if you don't do that, how are they going to find out?
02:56:09 And one of the things that you've talked about so many times, Steve is the barrier to entry.
02:56:13 For someone who's like, they're thinking about hunting.
02:56:15 Like I thought about it for years.
02:56:17 My wife used to go crazy.
02:56:18 Cause I would be at home watching spirit of the wild.
02:56:20 She's like, what the fuck are you watching?
02:56:24 Why are you watching Ted Nugent?
02:56:25 And I'm like, I want to figure out how to do this someday.
02:56:28 And then I watch your show.
02:56:29 I gotta be here.
02:56:30 Casey plays Fred bear.
02:56:31 Yeah.
02:56:32 Well, when you lack master, when I first saw your original show, the wild within, right.
02:56:36 That was what it was when I first saw that show.
02:56:38 I was like, Oh, I want to talk to that guy.
02:56:40 And that was before meat eater even started.
02:56:42 And then when you invited me to come hunting with you, I was like, Oh, finally now I can
02:56:47 figure this out.
02:56:48 But if it wasn't for that, having someone like you to show me how to do it and take
02:56:52 me out and to have you be my guide, like, fuck, what are the, what are the odds?
02:56:57 I'll see people making like, like young hunters or people to start in a hunt.
02:57:01 Now I'll see them make this horrible decisions, you know?
02:57:04 Yeah.
02:57:05 We're like, Oh, I think I'm going up there in the morning.
02:57:08 And on one hand I'll, uh, I want to help feel like bad.
02:57:12 I'll be like, Oh my God, it's a horrible idea.
02:57:14 And then I'm like, dude, yes.
02:57:16 Like, that's all the stuff that you like that I had to do when I was figuring anything out.
02:57:21 Yeah.
02:57:21 Like hats off to you, dude.
02:57:24 Yeah.
02:57:24 You're going to get up and go to like, you don't know it, but you're getting up early.
02:57:27 You're going to go try something.
02:57:28 I recognize it as the dumbest thing you could possibly do, but like, that's, that's how
02:57:32 you do it, man.
02:57:33 That's how you learn.
02:57:34 So that barrier to entry, like some people are, have the Ford mental fortitude where
02:57:39 they're just going to take it on.
02:57:41 Yeah.
02:57:41 And then some people are going to sit and be like, I'm not, you know, I don't have it
02:57:45 in me to really figure this hard ass thing out.
02:57:48 Well, until you've experienced success, it's very difficult to justify the work.
02:57:53 And if it seems insurmountable and for a lot of people that don't have someone like you
02:57:57 or someone you taking them out, it's, it's almost insurmountable because there's so many
02:58:01 things you have to learn.
02:58:02 It's not intuitive.
02:58:04 It's something that you have to figure out through trial and error, or you have to read
02:58:07 a lot or watch a lot of videos and absorb all that information.
02:58:10 Yeah.
02:58:11 Mostly it's, you have to learn it yourself, you know, because you can read, reading helps,
02:58:16 watching helps, talking helps.
02:58:17 You just got, just as you said, that's how they learn.
02:58:21 They get out there, they do it themselves.
02:58:23 And then they're like, well, that didn't work.
02:58:25 Now what?
02:58:26 And that's, that's how you learn.
02:58:28 That's what's hard about hunting with that barrier to entry is that experience accumulates
02:58:34 slow for most people.
02:58:36 Yeah.
02:58:36 Like when I was hunting back home, I would get a week for elk.
02:58:40 That's all.
02:58:40 So a week a year and that's it.
02:58:43 You know, so I had to go out, take photos, try to be out there amongst them, learn body
02:58:48 language, learn what they like to do.
02:58:50 And that takes years.
02:58:52 So when somebody comes in late, yeah, they can't shortcut that experience part.
02:58:56 We were, we were lucky to grow up doing it and now we're in a position where we can share
02:59:00 it, but it's, it's tough if you didn't grow up doing it.
02:59:03 Yeah.
02:59:03 There's a few places people will teach you how to do it.
02:59:07 You know, Jesse Griffiths has that school.
02:59:08 What is it called?
02:59:09 New school style.
02:59:10 What is it?
02:59:11 What is it again?
02:59:12 His school, but he has a literal like limited edition.
02:59:16 It's not the new school, but that's in it.
02:59:17 So he has Jamie pulled up, but he, but he has a program where I'll take you.
02:59:23 He'll teach you how to shoot.
02:59:24 He'll teach you how to hunt.
02:59:25 It teach you how to butcher, teach you how to cook the whole thing.
02:59:28 They'll take you through the whole process.
02:59:30 That's so valuable.
02:59:31 How there's something that you can do.
02:59:32 And especially with a renewable resource like pigs, new school of traditional.
02:59:36 That's right.
02:59:37 I know on a merit is like a, like a somewhat contradictory, new school of traditional cooking,
02:59:42 but that's so valuable where someone can take you through the whole process.
02:59:46 And there's not a lot of that available, unfortunately.
02:59:50 And even if it, if it was available, it would be very difficult to screen applicants to
02:59:55 make sure that it's even worth taking your time.
02:59:57 Because if you got a guy and you know, he's 50, 60 pounds overweight and got a bad knee
03:00:02 and you want to take him on a mule deer hunt in the mountains, like we can't really do this.
03:00:08 Like you're going to have to lose weight.
03:00:09 You're going to have to get in shape.
03:00:10 You're going to have to figure out a way to be able to get to where these animals get
03:00:14 into something different.
03:00:15 This is not an easy task.
03:00:16 I like the true, like there's an area, I don't think everyone needs to get there.
03:00:19 There's an area of expertise or a level of expertise that I think is, is admirable.
03:00:24 And it's, you know, you learn how to hunt some particular spot and that's great.
03:00:30 Right.
03:00:31 You learn how to hunt some particular spot and that's your hunting spot and you get it
03:00:35 really figured out and that's a wonderful journey.
03:00:37 And that's really good.
03:00:38 I think that getting to the point where you get that place and thing that you're comfortable
03:00:44 at, and then you go and be like, okay, I'm going to take whatever it is I learned there
03:00:48 and try to apply it to something totally different and figure that different thing out and get
03:00:54 where you're good at these spots and these things, but you become good at like deciphering,
03:01:00 figuring out and being able to move into totally new things and carry that accumulative knowledge
03:01:08 into these new spots.
03:01:09 Like that becomes pretty fun.
03:01:12 And that's, that's a high, I regard that as being not a, not better, but a high level
03:01:18 of expertise.
03:01:19 Well, there's also variables that maybe some people that are successful in other disciplines
03:01:24 don't recognize as they enter into this new world, that there's different parameters.
03:01:28 Like for instance, if you got someone who's a successful white tail hunter that hunts
03:01:32 out of a tree stand, they're a really good archer, but they're used to shooting a 65
03:01:37 pound bow with like a 350 grain arrow.
03:01:40 And they're used to shooting these animals that are fairly small and, and then you take
03:01:45 them on a elk hunt and you're like, Hey, that set up with this three bricks, three blade
03:01:50 mechanical with a 60 pound bow, and you're shooting a fucking enormous animal with huge
03:01:56 bones.
03:01:56 Like you might not even get through the ribs with that thing.
03:01:59 You might center a rib and that's a wrap.
03:02:01 You have to recognize you're dealing with a totally different thing and you're, you're
03:02:05 not, you can't just be weak.
03:02:07 You have to be physically strong.
03:02:09 You have to be capable of making it to, you're not going to sit in a tree stand.
03:02:12 Like you've got to change everything about the way you approach it.
03:02:16 Yeah.
03:02:16 You got very successful with this one aspect of this thing, but you've got a whole
03:02:20 new thing.
03:02:21 Now you have to apply it to, and if you don't, you're going to wound animals, you're going
03:02:25 to have problems, or you're going to just not be successful at all.
03:02:28 I remember the first time I went out with a guy, a deep drop and for swordfish.
03:02:33 So I watched the guy catch a couple of swordfish in 1300 feet of water.
03:02:36 And I realized I knew nothing about fishing.
03:02:39 So specific.
03:02:43 Oh my God, man.
03:02:44 Like all the shit you think, you know, that he go out there and you're like, you're not
03:02:47 going to catch a fish out here.
03:02:49 You can't do that.
03:02:51 But nowadays with fishing, you know, Steve, I sent you that thing the other day where
03:02:54 the guy had, uh, he had a screen on his phone and there was some sort of a camera attached
03:03:01 to his line.
03:03:02 It's like, Oh, that guy.
03:03:03 Yeah.
03:03:04 That was crazy.
03:03:04 Wild.
03:03:06 So this guy cast out and he's looking at a screen with like a lid over it to shield the
03:03:10 sun on his rod.
03:03:13 As he's really seeing the fish coming towards his bait.
03:03:17 Yeah. Not like ice fishing with a camera, but he's like, he has a camera of what he's
03:03:23 casting and has a camera watching fish interact with his bait while he does a retrieve.
03:03:28 Huh?
03:03:29 Yeah.
03:03:29 I didn't really get that.
03:03:30 It was cool.
03:03:31 I've never seen that before.
03:03:32 I was like, this is great.
03:03:33 But the, the things that I sent you, the ice fishing guys, they, that's nuts, man.
03:03:37 They got fucking cameras down there and like a fully heated shack where they're watching
03:03:43 television.
03:03:44 I'll tell you, my kid don't want to ice fish without the camera.
03:03:48 Well, it's an added element.
03:03:51 You see the fish, like, this is so cool.
03:03:53 You watch them sneak up to it.
03:03:55 Yeah.
03:03:55 You know, is, uh, yeah, that's, it reminds me there's something new in hunting now, which
03:04:01 I, I don't like, but it's that the heat seeking binoculars, I think it's heat seeking.
03:04:07 Oh, thermal thermals.
03:04:09 Yeah.
03:04:09 Thermals.
03:04:10 And to me, I don't.
03:04:14 You can't use it for big game hunting.
03:04:16 No, it's not.
03:04:17 There's some states where it's not regulated.
03:04:19 It's not regulated.
03:04:20 They don't even mention it.
03:04:21 No, no, no, you can't.
03:04:22 But yeah, you can't get outside illegal shooting hours.
03:04:25 No, but to find, Oh, I see what you're saying.
03:04:27 Are there states where you allowed to find game with thermal?
03:04:29 Uh, I think it's not, it's just not disallowed.
03:04:33 Yeah, I got it.
03:04:34 It's not addressed.
03:04:35 Well, there's an issue now where they're banning drones that use thermal for recovery,
03:04:40 but I don't, I don't like your scout.
03:04:42 The argument is your scout.
03:04:43 Of course you could be if you're a piece of shit, but like what guys could conceivably
03:04:48 do, like in Oregon, as I'm talking about in Western Oregon, glassing, those big, huge
03:04:52 logging units and finding deer is an art.
03:04:54 I mean, it is hard to pick those things up, but if you could just put, you know, and find
03:04:59 the thermal register of it, sure.
03:05:01 There, Oh, it's right there.
03:05:03 You know that.
03:05:04 And that's like a big part of killing a buck.
03:05:06 I don't like that.
03:05:07 That needs to be regulated.
03:05:09 Yannis was just hunting in Latvia and in Latvia, they get out in a clear cut.
03:05:13 Mill the day, whatever.
03:05:15 They're going to get out in a clear cut and put a thermal up and be like, nope, hop back
03:05:19 in the car and roll out.
03:05:20 Yeah.
03:05:20 I don't know.
03:05:20 And he's like, I can't believe you guys could, you know, I can't let you guys do that.
03:05:24 Like, I can't believe you don't do it.
03:05:26 Yeah.
03:05:26 Right.
03:05:26 It works stupid.
03:05:27 Yeah.
03:05:29 I, well, I was in Scotland, uh, there's stag where we were at.
03:05:33 I was like, this is amazing.
03:05:34 And they, they had a hunting ranch out there and they said, do you want to hunt?
03:05:38 And I said, do you guys use rifles?
03:05:40 And he goes, yeah, I go, can you use a bow?
03:05:42 Can I bring a bow?
03:05:43 And they go, no, we don't allow it in the country.
03:05:46 I don't like what, like, you know, a lot.
03:05:49 Can you watch me shoot first?
03:05:50 Like, I said, I talked to the governor, set up a target at 80 yards and show you like,
03:05:57 this is, I know what I'm doing.
03:06:00 Like, let me do this.
03:06:01 You can't.
03:06:03 Yeah.
03:06:03 I think, uh, was it South Africa?
03:06:06 There was like quite a lobbying effort to, uh, allow archery equipment.
03:06:12 Really?
03:06:13 Wow.
03:06:14 Yeah.
03:06:16 They, there's some countries over there that didn't have it.
03:06:18 I don't care.
03:06:19 I think Ted Nugent was involved in something about having to show the, the, how lethal it was before they would allow it.
03:06:28 Yeah.
03:06:28 It was a lethality concern.
03:06:30 Yeah.
03:06:30 Yeah.
03:06:30 Yeah.
03:06:31 And I don't know what it was for.
03:06:32 I don't know if it's for elephant or something like that.
03:06:34 But isn't that always the case when people just don't know and you think of an, an, a bow and arrow, you're like, well, that's not as a user gun, stupid.
03:06:41 You know, so much more effective.
03:06:43 You know, when I have that conversation with people that are non hunters and they're like, why do you use a bow and arrow?
03:06:47 I go, that says you're more connected.
03:06:50 It's, it's quiet.
03:06:52 It's like, there's so many things about it that are just, it's so much more effective.
03:06:56 There's so many things about it that are just, it's more difficult to do.
03:06:59 It requires more discipline and concentration.
03:07:02 It's more rewarding when you do it.
03:07:03 The, isn't a rifle better though?
03:07:05 Oh yeah.
03:07:05 Why don't you trying to get meat?
03:07:08 Yes.
03:07:09 Yeah.
03:07:09 Why do you support spear hunting?
03:07:11 Like I have no, I have no, I have zero problem, zero problem with spear hunting.
03:07:15 I don't think it's going to be a thing that impacts game numbers.
03:07:18 Impossible.
03:07:19 I 100% support it with, with pigs, but I think when I say supported, I feel that if
03:07:26 you had a regulation, I feel that, that if, if, if someone wanted to say, we'd like to
03:07:32 open it up, the people could hunt with a spear.
03:07:34 I would probably generally say, okay, I just, cause I don't think that this is going to be
03:07:38 a thing that reduces opportunity.
03:07:41 Well, you know, remember the thing that happened in Canada, Josh, they banned spear hunting
03:07:46 because this one controversial moment where it was totally legal.
03:07:50 Everything he did was totally legal.
03:07:52 Yeah.
03:07:52 And they just, the thing no one realized, cause there's things that are legal and they're
03:07:56 legal.
03:07:56 Cause they're not illegal.
03:07:58 Right.
03:07:58 Right.
03:07:59 That's a good point.
03:08:00 That's a good point.
03:08:01 Yeah.
03:08:01 Yeah.
03:08:02 I mean, I don't want to hunt with a spear, but I get it, you know, but I always feel
03:08:05 like it's a gimmick.
03:08:06 Like when I see someone hide in a tree and they spear a pig, they're showing that it
03:08:09 can be done.
03:08:10 Yeah.
03:08:10 Yeah.
03:08:10 It's kind of, yeah, I haven't done it.
03:08:13 I can't, I wouldn't can't picture getting into it by any stretch, but I just don't think
03:08:18 it I think it hits like traditional for sure.
03:08:23 And then I think it's not like, I don't think it's going to throw off, um, population
03:08:31 levels and, and, and lead to like decreased opportunity.
03:08:34 No, I don't think anyone's going to be like the spear guys got them all.
03:08:37 Right.
03:08:38 They got all the big bulls because they can hide in trees.
03:08:41 Yeah.
03:08:41 I mean, even if they wouldn't have made it illegal, who the hell was going to spear
03:08:44 hunt a bear besides Josh up there.
03:08:47 Right.
03:08:47 It's less, it was, it was just, it, it caused such a stir that they had to address it.
03:08:55 Yeah.
03:08:56 So it's a, but yeah, it wasn't going to have an impact on the population.
03:08:59 Well, it's it, it causes a stir because it was discussed publicly and it was like, it
03:09:03 was a social media thing and it gets into this weird area where, you know, some people
03:09:08 have a really hard time with people exploiting hunting on social media because they say that
03:09:14 you are, you're kind of like bastardizing this beautiful thing and you're making it
03:09:21 just like showing things on Instagram, just like all the other things that you show off
03:09:26 on Instagram, your private jet or your big house or your fucking yachts and shit.
03:09:30 Like you're, you're, you're making, you're cheapening this, this beautiful moment.
03:09:35 When I was a kid, you had to go down to the local sporting goods store and staple your
03:09:38 picture up to the brag board, man, the community brag board.
03:09:42 And you had to go down there to see what all was happening.
03:09:44 Well, it's essentially just a limited version of what Instagram is, but it's a global brag
03:09:50 board.
03:09:50 Yeah.
03:09:50 But that's the thing too.
03:09:52 It's, you're not getting people that come into that local sporting goods store that
03:09:55 don't understand hunting.
03:09:57 Yeah.
03:09:57 Yeah.
03:09:57 No, that is, I think that is a big deal because I think in a big deal in that we need to think
03:10:04 about how we're presenting things, you know, where, whatever, if you're down at the local
03:10:08 sporting, if that's only hunters, pretty much saying that just like when you'd write an
03:10:13 article, like when I wrote for Eastman's journal or whatever, that was just hunters.
03:10:16 Or if you're an outdoor channel, it's just hunter.
03:10:19 No, no, nobody besides hunters is watching that now everybody's on social media.
03:10:24 So I think we just need to be very cognizant of what we're putting up there.
03:10:28 Well, you do a fantastic job of that.
03:10:30 And you have a very specific protocol you follow, you know, where you'll show photos
03:10:34 of the hunt, then you'll show the meat, you know, you'll show harvesting the meat,
03:10:38 cleaning the meat, and then eventually you'll show a photo of the animal that you killed.
03:10:42 Sometimes I don't even do that.
03:10:43 Yeah.
03:10:44 Sometimes I just show the whatever, just because the grip and grins for some people.
03:10:50 And I have, you know, a lot of people that follow that don't hunt.
03:10:53 They have a hard time with those pictures.
03:10:56 Yeah.
03:10:57 And I'm just like, I get it, whatever you haven't grown up around this.
03:11:01 I have to me and people like me, this is part of it, but I understand.
03:11:06 I've never had anybody get mad at me for cooking an elk steak.
03:11:08 Exactly.
03:11:09 And it's just not going to happen.
03:11:10 So it's just like, do we need to put the grip and grin up?
03:11:13 I mean, is it necessary?
03:11:16 I don't care if people do it.
03:11:18 I just want them to think about what they're saying when they put it up, how they do it.
03:11:23 To me, I lead up to it.
03:11:25 I show the country, the animals, the journey, like on this lion hunt, I actually also showed
03:11:32 a lion killed a calf, um, uh, beef calf didn't eat any of it.
03:11:38 Cause if they killed it in the Creek, the lion wasn't big enough to drag it out of the
03:11:41 Creek.
03:11:42 So just left it and went and killed an elk.
03:11:44 Oh, that's interesting.
03:11:44 Followed the tracks for three miles.
03:11:47 And I would see the lion go and, um, was sitting behind a tree.
03:11:51 All the deer tracks were there.
03:11:53 So the lion was hunting and I shared all that.
03:11:57 That's all part of the journey.
03:11:58 That's all the cool stuff people.
03:12:01 So I say share things like that.
03:12:03 And also you can share your kill shot.
03:12:04 It's great.
03:12:05 But also share what else stood out from the hunt.
03:12:07 There's also a problem with hunting TV shows in that you're condensing something that might
03:12:12 be seven days of 10 hour days, 22 minutes.
03:12:15 Yeah.
03:12:15 And then you want to pick that you want to pick the interesting 22 minutes.
03:12:20 Yeah.
03:12:20 It's not, you just, it's like you randomly pull out segments out of your a hundred hours
03:12:25 of footage.
03:12:25 Right.
03:12:26 Yeah.
03:12:26 It's, I think it's, that's been a big benefit to tell more of the journey.
03:12:31 Now that Steve's on YouTube, his videos on YouTube have tons of views.
03:12:35 So he's able to explain why the hunt's important, what stood out to you.
03:12:40 It's more intellectual approach to it.
03:12:42 Whereas you didn't really have time on an outdoor channel show.
03:12:46 You didn't have time to get into that.
03:12:47 Some of my favorite shows of yours on Meteor, you're unsuccessful.
03:12:51 And I love that you have those, you know, I remember that one where you're getting real
03:12:55 introspective about your father.
03:12:56 That's like one of my favorite episodes you ever did.
03:12:59 And it was just you unsuccessful hunting.
03:13:02 And it's like, yeah, that's also a part of it.
03:13:05 Like, this is not easy and it's often unsuccessful.
03:13:08 And I was always, you know, and was always am always bummed to not get something too.
03:13:13 Like I'm trying, but we'd be, you know, back, back in the early days we were making 16 shows.
03:13:19 So you weren't going to, you know, if you went and spent a week busting your ass, you
03:13:23 didn't get something, it wasn't the option wasn't there to ditch it.
03:13:29 Like we were going to make something out of it.
03:13:30 And in the end, that was great.
03:13:31 Glad we did it.
03:13:33 But, you know, I've never gone in the woods hoping to be unsuccessful.
03:13:38 Right.
03:13:38 It definitely happens.
03:13:39 And, you know, but I always wished it was otherwise.
03:13:45 Of course.
03:13:46 Yeah.
03:13:46 Yeah.
03:13:47 But it's just the editing it down at 22 minutes.
03:13:50 It gives people that are on the outside a completely different perspective.
03:13:55 They think it's so easy.
03:13:56 Well, you just go, I mean, how many times you heard that?
03:13:58 If you were a real man, you, you know, you'd go hunt it with a knife or something like that.
03:14:02 Something stupid you're, Oh, what a coward you're shooting it from a distance with a rifle.
03:14:06 And in that 22 minutes too, there's also sponsor obligations when it's on TV.
03:14:11 So it's not even 22 minutes of hunting.
03:14:13 Right.
03:14:14 You know, you have to have the, this tips and tactics brought to you by
03:14:18 Right.
03:14:18 Osler, whatever.
03:14:19 So it's like, you get down to the hunt.
03:14:20 You can't really say why the hunt is important to you.
03:14:24 Almost.
03:14:24 It's like, it doesn't give you time to develop that story.
03:14:28 So we've, it's a big benefit to us.
03:14:30 Social media.
03:14:31 Now we're not, we don't need approval by an editor.
03:14:34 We don't need the channel to approve how long this thing is.
03:14:38 We put it on YouTube and then we can tell the story of the hunt in a more
03:14:42 honest and relatable fashion, hopefully, and explain why it's difficult and people understand
03:14:48 it. What kind of restrictions is YouTube put on hunting videos now?
03:14:51 Because I know that you can push it a little far and get dinged.
03:14:54 What is it pushing far?
03:14:56 The kill shot is no, it winds up being no like blood and, and, and
03:15:01 skinning shots, any kind of graphic, like, you know, we got the first ding you hit is
03:15:08 you hit a demonetization thing.
03:15:10 Right.
03:15:10 And then you can hit other levels of dings and there's like a little scorecard, but
03:15:15 oddly doing a neat, we had something like just like some examples of doing a knee
03:15:24 cropsy on something just too graphic organs, things like that, disassembly, that'll get
03:15:31 you dinged.
03:15:31 You can get demonetization.
03:15:34 I believe there's levels of demonetization you can get around certain firearms issues,
03:15:40 but the primary thing is just like gore.
03:15:43 Right.
03:15:44 But even put in a, in terms of a knee cropsy.
03:15:47 So I'm sure at some level, it's like, I'm sure it begins as a AI thing, right?
03:15:53 Scouring all this footage and find something that's like bloody and graphic.
03:15:57 And at some level it gets elevated.
03:15:59 We've argued and gotten our stuff back.
03:16:01 You know, if you can get someone's ear and you can get it tested by a person and gotten
03:16:06 it back.
03:16:07 But that is the primary thing is, is gore.
03:16:10 There was talk of them eliminating kill shots.
03:16:13 I haven't heard that.
03:16:14 That could be, I haven't heard that.
03:16:15 I remember, I think that got rescinded, but I think there were some issues.
03:16:18 Here it goes.
03:16:20 You can turn on ads for this content, hunting content where there's no depiction of graphic
03:16:25 animal injuries or prolonged suffering hunting videos where the moment of kill or injury
03:16:30 is indiscernible and no focal footage of how this dead animal is processed for trophy or
03:16:36 food purposes.
03:16:37 Boy, that's pretty fucking limited.
03:16:40 Yeah.
03:16:40 Well, like for me, I had, I had one that was limited in age restriction.
03:16:46 So people 18 and under couldn't watch it.
03:16:49 Was it a firearms infraction or no, no, no, no.
03:16:51 It wouldn't have been firearm.
03:16:52 Just archery.
03:16:53 But, and I don't monetize any of my hunting videos because I just don't even want to deal
03:16:58 with, oh, you're killing for fucking profit or whatever the hell.
03:17:01 So I'm like, I don't even, I don't make any money off.
03:17:03 You don't turn monetization.
03:17:05 No, not for hunting.
03:17:06 I do it for my Lyft run shoot and my podcast.
03:17:08 So, but for just the hunting, I'm not meant, that's a good way to, but I still got that,
03:17:14 that age restriction because of, they said the Gore, then there was an outfit that, uh,
03:17:20 um, what's his name?
03:17:22 Jason, I think sportsman's Alliance maybe.
03:17:26 But anyway, they wrote, they appealed it for me.
03:17:29 They got it in a whole, uh, in touch with YouTube and appealed their decision and got
03:17:33 it overturned.
03:17:34 So they, for people like me, they, or for like us creators, they will go to go to bat
03:17:40 for us.
03:17:41 And yeah, oftentimes I've seen cases.
03:17:43 I remember our Senator and, uh, our, our Senator in Montana got, uh, dinged on one of the social
03:17:50 media platforms for having like a picture of him and his wife with a pronghorn and his
03:17:57 account got taken down.
03:17:58 And the minute humans became aware of this, or like the right humans became aware of this,
03:18:05 they did like a very quick reversal.
03:18:07 Yeah.
03:18:08 So the way, the way we'll generally look at it with putting up video content is we'll
03:18:16 try to avoid, um, we'll try to avoid demonetization being demonetization.
03:18:23 Meaning you cross some line, right.
03:18:26 But I, but the thing is, I haven't found it to be like, it's not like an onerous process.
03:18:30 I feel that it's pretty, um, if you, if you compare it to other channels of distribution,
03:18:36 I have not found YouTube to be like dramatically over restrictive, especially compared to any
03:18:41 kind of, um, especially compared to any kind of like network parameter, right?
03:18:47 No, they're not, they're not, they might be bad, but they're not bad compared to anybody
03:18:53 else.
03:18:53 No.
03:18:54 And that one that was Jason quick, who helped me with that.
03:18:56 I just remembered his last name, but that one I showed, I killed this bull on San Carlos
03:19:02 and I think I showed the lungs or where the arrow hit, you know, and that's, that's what
03:19:06 got it.
03:19:07 And it wasn't once I appealed it myself, they said, no, we're upholding the restriction.
03:19:13 And then they did get it overturned.
03:19:15 It took, so it took a couple of times, but still is reasonable.
03:19:18 And they took, they had age restrictions on other ones that I didn't even know about,
03:19:22 but I didn't notice that the viewership was down.
03:19:24 And, um, and so that they lifted all those.
03:19:29 It's kind of a weird situation where, although there are many, many video platforms, YouTube
03:19:36 essentially has an overwhelming majority of people into, into the point where it's almost
03:19:41 a monopoly, you know, and if you have things like that, that are very valuable to people,
03:19:48 like, I want to see where the arrow hits.
03:19:50 Yeah.
03:19:51 I, I, I like when I see blood pouring out of an animal, because I know that that's a
03:19:57 lethal shot.
03:19:59 That's what you want.
03:20:00 Like that.
03:20:01 It might be graphic to some people, but if I, I see a rage hit behind the shoulder on
03:20:06 a deer and I see that blood squirting out, as soon as the deer starts moving, I'm like,
03:20:10 that guy got that deer, that's a dead deer.
03:20:12 That's what you want.
03:20:13 You know, it doesn't seem, it doesn't seem awful to me.
03:20:16 It seems better because that's a lethal shot.
03:20:19 That's a successful hunt.
03:20:21 That's what you're trying to do to pretend that's not what you're trying to do.
03:20:25 Boy, that seems insane.
03:20:27 And if you're doing it only to protect the, the ignorant, that seems insane too.
03:20:31 It's like, you don't have to watch those videos.
03:20:34 And if you're going to allow those videos on the platform, you should allow those videos
03:20:38 to be a realistic depiction of what everybody's trying to do, which is a lethal shot on an
03:20:44 animal.
03:20:45 And if you hit a lethal shot on an animal and you hit it in the vitals and you use a
03:20:50 strong arrow with a great broad head, you're going to get blood squirting out of it.
03:20:54 Cause that's what you want.
03:20:55 The last thing you want to see is an arrow hit an animal and no blood comes out.
03:21:01 Yeah.
03:21:02 That, I mean, and that's okay.
03:21:03 Well, and meanwhile, they show people, people getting killed, I think on YouTube, don't
03:21:07 they?
03:21:08 I do not know.
03:21:09 I think they pull those, I think.
03:21:11 They try to be injured.
03:21:13 Well, you see it on the war videos, you see it blocked out or obscured.
03:21:18 Some of the, the, the hunting networks used to have self-imposed restrictions that they
03:21:28 felt were cleaning up hunting for the sake of non hunters looking in.
03:21:35 And it was counterproductive because they would have a restriction that they didn't
03:21:40 want to see raw meat.
03:21:42 They didn't want to see bare bone.
03:21:44 And so it created this sense of like when I say counterproductive, if you were looking
03:21:52 in on it, watching it, there was no acknowledgement of what happens to it later, which created
03:21:58 the sense that maybe nothing, right.
03:22:00 You know, and then, and then that, that eventually corrected itself.
03:22:04 And they're like, Oh, some level of gore.
03:22:08 Right.
03:22:09 In parentheses, like some level of gore is helpful in explaining the process, but the
03:22:15 instinct early on, the instinct was to not have any of that.
03:22:18 Right.
03:22:18 And people would get dinged for raw meat.
03:22:20 They'd get dinged for like a bone sticking out of a backpack.
03:22:23 One of the things that I really appreciated about your shows, particularly early on, is
03:22:27 that you have a lot of segments where you cook the meat and there's a lot of shows where
03:22:31 they don't cook the meat.
03:22:32 That was our trademark, dude.
03:22:34 It's a big difference.
03:22:36 Big difference.
03:22:36 I mean, it's, it's much more enjoyable.
03:22:38 Like one of my favorite videos is you and you shot that black bear, the, the, the blueberries.
03:22:42 Sure.
03:22:43 And you're watching, like, you're explaining, like, look how purple this fat is.
03:22:47 Cause this thing's just been gorging on blueberries.
03:22:49 Then you're cooking it and eating it.
03:22:51 Like that to me is like, that's a full range of what the experience of hunting is about.
03:22:57 I wish more people would do that.
03:22:59 I find now looking back on those days, it's like, I sometimes look back and it'd be like,
03:23:02 it was just shocking that that wasn't, it's shocking that that wasn't out there more.
03:23:08 Yeah.
03:23:08 At the time, you know, it was like, it's something like so simple and elemental and
03:23:12 it was just a surprise people.
03:23:15 It was almost non-existent.
03:23:16 Yeah.
03:23:17 So you didn't on those outdoor channel shows, you, you very, very rarely saw someone cooking
03:23:22 the animal that they killed.
03:23:24 It was, I think it was kind of assumed just because of how we grew up and in magazines,
03:23:29 they never talked about that.
03:23:30 You never read an article where they talked about how they process the meat or ate it.
03:23:36 That have a recipe of finished, finished, like a recipe with, with shit you've take
03:23:40 out of the freezer.
03:23:41 But there was, there was an ignored.
03:23:42 Part.
03:23:43 There was the old Fred bear videos.
03:23:46 You know, he, Fred bear is making videos way before we ever started hunting.
03:23:50 The meat was never shown.
03:23:52 So it was just kind of like, that's just how we learned.
03:23:55 Then Steve, a brilliant idea, meat eater.
03:24:00 Yeah.
03:24:00 I mean, meat eater right there.
03:24:02 You got the fork, you got the forks on the fricking moose.
03:24:05 Yeah.
03:24:05 So it's like, that was the best decision ever because it addresses that part of it,
03:24:12 which was kind of like, it's impressive that you foresaw what might be a challenge for
03:24:19 us, you know, explaining hunting.
03:24:20 So that was just like brilliant to come up with that.
03:24:22 But to, to our defense, that was never a thing.
03:24:26 We, we just knew, I mean, I read this old article.
03:24:29 My first deer, I killed that spike that I said when I was 15, I wrote this little thing for the
03:24:33 school newspaper and said, I got 37 pounds of hamburger from it.
03:24:36 And I, I don't know.
03:24:38 I don't know why, because I don't know why I said that.
03:24:41 That's a great school newspaper entry.
03:24:43 Yeah.
03:24:43 Yeah.
03:24:43 Cause nobody ever talked about it, but it was like, that's hilarious.
03:24:47 Yeah.
03:24:47 It was funny.
03:24:48 I said something like my mom was happy because we got 37 pounds.
03:24:51 It's probably all we got off that deer.
03:24:52 It was pretty small.
03:24:53 But, but yeah, so I mean, it's yeah, it has changed.
03:24:59 It certainly opens people's eyes up that are non hunters.
03:25:02 And it's, I think, I think it's a very valuable addition to this whole video depiction of what
03:25:08 hunting is all about, you know, and also you're a really good cook.
03:25:11 So you'd get like really like involved to make some pretty cool recipes and, you know,
03:25:17 you cook for your staff and you've got episodes like that where you cooked all these different
03:25:21 preparations of different wild game.
03:25:23 It's cool.
03:25:25 Yeah.
03:25:26 It adds to it.
03:25:26 No, I think you appreciate it.
03:25:29 Well, listen, let's wrap it up.
03:25:30 Let's bring this bad boy home.
03:25:33 Meat eaters available.
03:25:35 It's essentially only online now, right?
03:25:37 Yep.
03:25:37 Yeah.
03:25:38 Well, we have, you know, like the fast channels and, but yeah, you can find everything we do
03:25:42 on YouTube.
03:25:43 So I just want to say to me, huge honor.
03:25:46 You guys are the voices of hunting.
03:25:48 It's like, you're the voice of hunting, bitch.
03:25:50 Shut the fuck up.
03:25:50 No, you guys are so well versed in how to discuss it, how to explain it.
03:25:55 As are you.
03:25:56 It's like, I am honored to be here and to have a podcast with Steve.
03:26:00 We've done a lot of podcasts, but to have all three of us here, that means a lot to
03:26:04 me.
03:26:04 So thank you.
03:26:04 That's great.
03:26:06 It means a lot to me.
03:26:07 You two are the main reason why I got into hunting 100% and without you taking me out
03:26:13 to shoot that one mule deer that sits proudly on that table.
03:26:16 It's changed my life.
03:26:18 Both of you.
03:26:19 Both of you.
03:26:19 Appreciate you.
03:26:21 Love you too.
03:26:22 All right.
03:26:22 Bye everybody.
03:26:23 Bye.
03:26:24 Bye.
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