Sheffield Wednesday, Danny Röhl and more with Owls youth chief Steve Haslam
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00:00 You've been on and off with your playing days due to your time now with the Academy.
00:06 It's a lot of time spent in and around Sheffield Wednesday.
00:10 Where do you think the club's at now in terms of the work that you're trying to do with the youth set-up, especially?
00:15 Yes, I've been in post now for six and a half years.
00:20 In that time, obviously, we had the COVID spell as well, which was a bit disruptive,
00:25 but we think we've been really good strides in them for seven years.
00:28 We've always tried to work in a multidisciplinary way by having not just coaching,
00:34 but classroom sessions with the boys, a sports scientist, athletic development programme, etc.
00:39 So, it's been a real team effort to try and get us to where we are now.
00:43 We feel we've got a good group of staff in, which helps us to develop good people and good players.
00:48 Does it feel like you are making that progress?
00:49 Obviously, it can be quite a frustrating industry with the youth side of things,
00:54 because you're trying to pick out potential ability rather than necessarily what you can see as definite ability.
01:01 When you've got this group at the moment, now you've got, obviously, Baileys, the standout as the first teamer,
01:06 but you've got guys like Sean Fosera last year under Darren Moore, you've got Guy Siqueira who's come through this year.
01:12 You've had a lot of players move into that first-team space.
01:16 Is that quite validating for you to see that that progress is really being made throughout?
01:20 Yes, absolutely.
01:21 We are trying to create good people as well as good players, but we are a football development programme ultimately.
01:27 You spoke about Bailey there, obviously, Pearce has made two starts in the FA Cup,
01:32 and you've seen Guy and Sam Reid play, and Sean and Rio have been in and around it a little bit as well,
01:37 plus some others that I've probably not mentioned there.
01:39 So, it does validate the work you do.
01:41 A lot of work goes unseen and unheard a little bit, but it is rewarding for staff, players, parents,
01:47 everyone who invests a lot of time and effort and commitment into developing these young lads.
01:52 There's both ends of the spectrum, isn't there, as well, when it comes to youth players?
01:56 Because you've got someone like Bailey, who's been here since he was, what, seven or eight years old,
01:59 but then there's been someone like Pearce, who you've picked up having left Man City.
02:04 Does that change the way that you work?
02:07 Obviously, I presume you're having to work in both fields,
02:10 not just looking at the guys that you can pick up from the very young age,
02:13 but also seeing who gets released by the big clubs and that kind of thing.
02:17 Yes, we've got to be open-minded to recruit from wherever,
02:20 whether it's the local boy who joins you at a really young age and comes right through the system,
02:24 which we've seen with quite a few boys, or ones who are quite late into our programme,
02:29 i.e. Pearce and Guy and Sam Reid, for example.
02:32 So, yes, we've got to be open-minded to recruit at all ages, really,
02:37 for what we perceive to be the best talent, and that can be unpredictable and can be very fluid.
02:43 But, yes, it's nice to see us having those success stories with boys from different journeys.
02:49 And now, with the way that the club is at the moment with Danny,
02:52 Danny seems to be very keen on not just having him training with the first team,
02:56 but genuinely playing games.
02:58 How nice is that for you to be able to, I suppose, use that as a character tangle in front of the young lads,
03:03 that there are real opportunities there now?
03:06 Yes, I mean, obviously, it's great to hear.
03:08 I met Danny on day one of his appointment,
03:11 so I think he was really engaging and really invested his time in the academy.
03:16 And I think it's not just that he says he's interested in the academy,
03:20 you've seen he actually puts players in and gives them opportunities.
03:22 And that's a great incentive for all the young players in the academy,
03:27 that you see in the likes of Bailey and Pearce, break out from the under-21 group.
03:31 And although it is a big leap from youth football into senior football,
03:35 those two boys, as examples, have shown that it's achievable.
03:38 You've got the side as they are now,
03:39 you've got Danny working the way that he is doing.
03:42 When there are so many young players who are coming up,
03:46 they're obviously being pulled away from the under-21s.
03:49 Has Danny spoken to you about expanding that so that it's not quite so disruptive to the under-21s?
03:55 Yes, we have technical board meetings regularly between first team and academy staff.
03:59 Obviously, myself leading the academy and Danny leading the first team.
04:03 We're in daily contact with first team staff,
04:06 managing each player on an individual basis, whether they need extra top-up game time with the under-21s
04:11 or with the first team for a week or on that particular day.
04:14 So there's constant interaction, trying to manage each player's individual programme.
04:20 And sometimes we are a little bit stretched,
04:24 in terms of players being out on loan or with the first team and potentially injured, unfortunately.
04:28 But we'd rather run it in terms of having a lean group
04:32 and allowing players from the younger end to push on as well.
04:35 That's advantageous.
04:37 We just want to make sure that we don't leave ourselves too short at times.
04:40 And we are really stretched in terms of training group on a particular day.
04:44 But again, constant collaboration between academy staff and first team staff
04:48 to really put those boys at the centre of their development.
04:51 You mentioned there about the younger ones.
04:54 Hearing very good things about the under-15s and the 14s at the moment.
04:58 They're doing really well in the Fuddler Cup.
05:01 How excited are you about this next generation of Wednesday talent?
05:04 Yes, you've name-checked the 15s there as a group.
05:07 And you're right, they've took part in the Premier Fuddler Cup this year
05:11 and topped the group against some pretty quality opposition there
05:16 and through to the next stage of that.
05:17 So, yes, it will be really interesting to see how far those boys will progress in the coming years.
05:23 Yes, and obviously you can't really talk about those young lads so much because of their age.
05:28 But how difficult is that period?
05:30 You know when they really start to develop as young men and young footballers,
05:37 how difficult is that period to manage between 13 and 18 when they're looking at first team?
05:42 Yes, it's really difficult in some respects because there's a lot happening in that person's life.
05:47 Obviously, they've got schooling, which is massively important.
05:49 They're growing, they're developing physically, psychologically.
05:53 And boys all grow at different rates as well.
05:56 So, again, we've got quite an experienced bunch of staff and we make decisions
06:03 and formulate development plans based on what we see and what we think is right for those boys.
06:07 But it is a difficult process.
06:09 But by the time the boys are in the final year at school,
06:13 we obviously give them their scholarship decision, then the next step of the journey starts.
06:18 Yes, how difficult is that period?
06:20 Without sounding overly dramatic, you're making or breaking a dream for young lads at that point.
06:28 I suppose you have to become a little bit cold about it in order to get through it?
06:34 Yes, but at the same time, you've got to be empathetic to what the boys and the parents,
06:38 and the sacrifice and the time that they've put into their son's journey.
06:42 But it is by far the most difficult part of my job,
06:47 because, again, as a group of staff, we care about the lads and want each and every one of them to succeed.
06:52 But at the same time, difficult decisions have got to be taken and we take them with a professional outlook.
06:58 Yes, you came through the academy structures at Wednesday yourself,
07:03 but having come through an academy like you did,
07:08 do you think that helps in your position because you have a better idea of the process that the kids are going through?
07:14 Yes, I'm probably slightly biased on that front, but I would say it's definitely an advantage
07:18 because myself, plus other members of staff that we've got,
07:21 have trodden the path that those boys are going through.
07:24 It's not an easy journey navigating your way through those ages that you mentioned,
07:29 but like I say, we've got an experienced group of staff, we check and challenge each other,
07:35 so there's a healthy debate taking place on individuals and groups, etc.,
07:40 all with the intention of trying to help the boys as much as we possibly can.
07:44 Yes, am I right in saying you played with some pretty decent lads growing up as well?
07:47 I think I read that you captained Michael Owen at one point?
07:49 Yes, that's right. It seems a long time ago now, but back in 1995,
07:53 I was England Under-15 schoolboys captain,
07:58 so people like Michael Owen and Wes Brown were in that group at that time.
08:03 Obviously, you're not thinking with that head when you were a kid,
08:07 but when you think back now to the calibre of players that you played with and played against, I suppose, as well,
08:13 do you think that helps you in terms of what you're hoping to achieve with this next generation?
08:19 Yes, again, I think it's important that you know what the level is.
08:25 I'm not just talking about myself, I keep referring to the staff we've got,
08:28 people like Andy Oldsworth, Neil Thompson, Daryl Pugh, Nicky Weaver,
08:32 plus some other staff who work in other disciplines who are really well-qualified,
08:38 knowledgeable and passionate about the development of young players.
08:41 But yes, again, being in the arena and understanding what it takes, I think, is an advantage.
08:48 Danny's spoken a lot about having a specific mindset at Sheffield Wednesday that he wants to bring.
08:56 Is that something that he's trying to filter down into the youth set-up as well,
09:00 in terms of the sort of people that he wants involved?
09:03 Yes, again, we've had discussions about this and I think when you look at successful teams and successful players,
09:09 there's probably common traits there that are common across all sports and all industries possibly.
09:13 So, they're the sort of behaviours that we're trying to promote in our boys.
09:18 What do you look for, aside from being good at football?
09:23 What sort of people do you look for when you're looking at young lads that you think would fit the Sheffield Wednesday way
09:30 and what you're looking for in youngsters?
09:32 Yes, aside from the sort of technical attributes associated to any position,
09:37 there's a whole range of stuff you're looking at.
09:41 Can they cope with difficult situations?
09:44 How do they react to adversity?
09:47 How do they interact with the teammates?
09:51 There's a whole host of personal characteristics that you look at.
09:55 The biggest one really is continual striving for excellence and not settling for anything,
10:01 always trying to be better and being honest in their reflections with themselves
10:05 and drawing on coaches and analysts and sports scientists to try and help their development.
10:11 So, yes, probably the biggest one would be that growth mindset of perseverance
10:17 and continuing to strive for excellence.
10:20 I want to touch on the way that youth football is now
10:24 and the desire from clubs above Sheffield Wednesday to take players from the teams below.
10:32 There's obviously sometimes a lot of times nothing you can really do about it.
10:36 Look back to people like Adam Collin and Tony O'Garney.
10:40 How tough is that, knowing that you can put all this hard work in
10:43 and then someone can come along and just...
10:46 Obviously, there's compensation and that kind of thing,
10:48 but there's often nothing you can do to stop it.
10:52 Yes, I mean, it's a very competitive field, youth development.
10:56 Obviously, there's 28 Cat 1 teams who are mostly Premier League clubs
11:03 but with big budgets, etc.
11:04 So, they see youth development as a way of being efficient with their resources.
11:11 But you're right, it can be frustrating,
11:13 but at the same time, you've got to see it as an achievement as well
11:17 that you've brought a particular player in.
11:20 Hopefully, over a period of time, you've developed that player
11:23 and you get benefits on an individual level
11:27 of seeing that individual develop in their career.
11:30 Yes, with the group that's coming through now,
11:33 you mentioned Bayley, Pearce, I think Seamus in the same boat as well.
11:38 There's a lot of young players who came through
11:40 and there were long-term contracts put on the table.
11:45 That must be really pleasing that they are being backed
11:48 not just as a 'right, you have another year'
11:50 but there's a longer-term plan in place.
11:53 Yes, again, managing the contracts of the young players is key as well.
11:57 Offering the contracts at the right time
11:59 in terms of where you see their career progressing.
12:02 So, that's a continuing job that we have to try and do to the best of our ability.
12:10 Yes, is it nice though that you are able to go
12:13 'right, we are looking long-term with these players'?
12:16 Absolutely, yes. Again, it boils down to the individual.
12:18 There's a healthy balance between giving that player some stability
12:25 and protecting that asset to the club
12:28 but at the same time, you want the player to have the right mindset
12:31 that they will continue to push themselves and progress.
12:34 Because quite often the players we are talking about
12:36 aren't the finished article and aren't regular first-team players.
12:39 So, there's a healthy balance to be struck
12:41 but it's always nice to be able to have a positive conversation
12:46 with parents and players and offer that long-term deal.
12:49 Yes, you've had a lot of young players at the moment
12:52 who are getting called up for their various international teams.
12:55 Obviously, older up you've got people like Piers,
12:59 who's playing for Northern Ireland.
13:00 But all the way down the ladder you've got lads playing for youth teams
13:03 at Portugal, I think Romania, Wales, all over the place.
13:07 How nice is that? Do you get to tell them?
13:11 Do you get to be the one that tells them these lessons
13:12 they get in the international club?
13:13 Yes, quite often the association will contact us as a club
13:17 but contact the parents at the same time.
13:19 So, we inform the boys as soon as we know
13:22 but quite often the parents have already told them,
13:24 which is absolutely fine.
13:25 But it's a fantastic reward for the players to be selected
13:30 to play for their country at whatever level it is.
13:31 It's a great achievement and we're really proud of those boys
13:35 that they get that recognition.
13:37 I was going to say how nice it is for the club
13:39 and I suppose again, there's validation when you see
13:42 numerous players being called up for their...
13:44 Yes, absolutely.
13:45 Again, it's an indicator of where they sit
13:50 and how others view them as well.
13:51 So, whether it's England or another country,
13:55 it's a fantastic achievement for those boys.
13:57 Yes, I don't want to harp on about singular players
14:00 but obviously with Bailey at the moment doing what he's doing
14:02 and the way that he's burst onto the first team scene this season,
14:07 as someone who's been here for such a long time,
14:09 do you remember, was there a point with Bailey
14:12 when you watched him do something
14:14 or was there an age in an age group
14:16 that you thought, "Yes, this kid's got a bit of something here"?
14:19 I think the biggest thing about Bailey is that he's always scored goals,
14:22 no matter what age he was.
14:24 He's been with us a long time now
14:26 and he's always been that goal scorer.
14:29 I don't think I can imagine him saying that his best work
14:32 happens in the last 30 yards of the pitch,
14:34 which for a striker is the most important area.
14:36 So, thinking about the Youth Cup a couple of years ago,
14:38 I went down to Southampton and beat them 1-0.
14:41 It was a game where we knew that Southampton's a cat-hound.
14:45 Premier League club would probably dominate the ball
14:46 but we had to be compact and rely on counter-attacks.
14:51 I don't know if you remember the goal yourself but...
14:53 Really good finish.
14:54 Bailey broke clear, showed his pace, good movement
14:57 and a fantastic early finish from him.
14:59 So, right through the pathway,
15:02 Bailey has shown that he's got real goal-scoring ability.
15:05 What was the conversation with yourself and Danny?
15:10 Because there's been a few managers that have had him in training,
15:14 but when the decision was made that,
15:15 'No, this kid's going to be part of the first team now',
15:19 how did that conversation go?
15:20 Was it a chat about whether you thought he was ready as well?
15:24 Yes, multiple things really.
15:26 Boys don't just get plucked from the academy
15:28 straight into a starting position on a Saturday
15:31 for the first team at Illesbury.
15:33 They'll get dropped into training
15:35 and that process is managed because you don't want them training
15:38 with the first team and neglecting the game time of the 21st minute.
15:41 So, it's trying to find that healthy balance
15:43 where you put individuals in situations where they can develop
15:47 and allow the first team staff to assess them,
15:51 assess the player but also where they are against the other players.
15:53 So, that process took place early in Danny's tenure here
15:58 and he impressed Danny straight away
16:01 and from that point on he's been heavily involved with the first team.
16:05 With the way the set-up is here at Wensley at the moment,
16:09 you've obviously not got the most space in terms of where you do your work.
16:16 Does that make it...
16:17 I suppose, could it be seen as a plus and a negative?
16:20 You've not got too much space but it's all very close, isn't it?
16:22 Yes, one thing here is we're massively integrated with the first team.
16:25 You look at other training ground sites
16:27 and they might be on separate buildings
16:29 or the academy staff aren't allowed in this bit, etc.
16:32 So, we are really integrated with first team,
16:35 which again allows for lots of discussions and debates
16:39 around players and player development.
16:41 Yes, how has it been with Danny since he came in?
16:45 You say you've had a lot of conversations and stuff
16:47 but just generally, how has it been working with him?
16:51 He's obviously got some decent heritage himself
16:54 even though he's so young in terms of the places he's worked.
16:56 Yes, he's got an unbelievable CV.
17:00 He's a relatively young coach.
17:03 Like I say, right from day one he engaged with myself
17:05 and the rest of the academy staff.
17:08 Lots of interaction and I've got to say it's been hectic
17:11 because that's what a football club's like,
17:12 it always feels like there's a game around the corner.
17:14 So, it's been hectic but when there's weeks
17:18 where there's no midweek game,
17:19 we get more chance to talk about things.
17:24 For yourself, you're from Rhondda,
17:27 you were a Wednesday act growing up,
17:31 so for you, obviously playing for your club is one thing,
17:34 you got to live that dream as a player.
17:38 How is it now, knowing that you have an active role
17:42 in shaping the future of your football club?
17:45 Yes, I'm very privileged to work for this football club
17:49 and be involved in football because it's something I love doing
17:52 and I was lucky enough to make the steps through my youth career
17:56 and become a first team player.
17:59 Now, the next best thing to playing is coaching and managing stuff.
18:04 Like I say, I'm really privileged to be doing the job I am
18:07 and I really enjoy seeing people develop,
18:10 whether that's players and staff.
18:12 Do you see it as quite a big responsibility?
18:15 It's a huge responsibility because we've got a lot of boys in the system,
18:18 it's a seven day a week programme
18:21 and ultimately you want to give everyone a positive life experience of the club
18:25 because, again, the numbers of players involved in academies
18:29 and the number that progress to first team is very few,
18:32 so we try and make it a really good experience for players of all ages.
18:38 Am I right in saying that you guys do quite a lot of aftercare
18:42 for players that don't make it?
18:45 I've seen quite a lot of lads go over and end up doing scholarships in America,
18:48 in Australia, places like that.
18:50 Yeah, in terms of under-18s, because they're at that age that you're talking about,
18:53 they're quite a common pathway now.
18:57 A lot of the boys get fully funded scholarships in America
18:59 where they go and do a degree for three to four years plus play as well
19:03 and the feedback we get from the boys is amazing.
19:06 But yeah, we put an aftercare package in for players of all ages,
19:10 whether we're trying to transition them back into grassroots football
19:13 and we'll support them to do that,
19:14 or whether it's getting trials at another club.
19:18 I think the game in general is now more resource and more thought put into
19:24 really making sure that it's not just the entry bit that you look at
19:27 and the time that the boys are at the academy,
19:29 it's the time when they leave the academy as well
19:31 that you try and support these boys on their journey.
19:34 That's brilliant.
19:34 Just lastly, to finish off I suppose,
19:37 how excited are you about the future of Sheffield Wednesday?
19:39 You obviously see fully across the board,
19:42 all the way down to the real children that are here,
19:45 through to the guys that are now pushing for the first team.
19:48 Just how excited are you about the state of Sheffield Wednesday
19:52 as you set up at the moment?
19:53 Yeah, I mean, I'm energised every single day to come in
19:56 and I think that's a real good indicator to how I see it hopefully
20:01 progress in the next few years.
20:02 We feel as if we've got players who can impact the first team,
20:06 which you've seen, but also stay there and hopefully do a really good job
20:09 in winning the Sheffield Wednesday team.
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