Padu's data verification necessary to avoid inaccuracies, says Rafizi

The Star

Datuk Seri Dr Wee Ka Siong has questioned Economy Minister Rafizi Ramli in Parliament on how the Central Database Hub (Padu) data is verified.  Dr Wee said during the minister's question time, Rafizi answered the question of Bachok MP on the new classification of net disposable household income compared to the classification based on household income (B40, M40, T20), which is being used currently.  Read more at https://bit.ly/3P3TyY8  WATCH MORE: https://thestartv.com/c/news SUBSCRIBE: https://cutt.ly/TheStar LIKE: https://fb.com/TheStarOnline

Transcript

00:00 [EU] I refer to the June 2023 report, which the government committed to abolish B40, M40 and T20 classifications next year.

00:13 It is said that this will be implemented, not proposed, but implemented, starting January 2024.

00:23 But for this January, it has not been implemented yet. In fact, the announcement of the Hajj mining by the Hajj Miners still uses the classification of B40, M40 and T20.

00:36 And the grant of aid from the World Bank, at the end of January, still uses the classification of B40, M40 and T20.

00:45 In my opinion, the classification of B40 is important, Minister and Speaker, not only to ensure that the government's aid and subsidies are distributed correctly,

00:54 but more importantly, for us, the lawmakers, the policymakers, this is a graduation or an increase, as mentioned by the Minister earlier,

01:04 from the poor to the middle class and so on.

01:09 So, does the Minister agree that this year, with the classification of the households based on clean income,

01:17 there is a risk that this middle class can fall to the lower class or the poor class in a sudden,

01:25 due to various factors, pressure, increase in costs, subsidies, as mentioned by the Minister earlier.

01:32 Please answer.

01:33 [Minister of Finance and Finance] Thank you, Speaker.

01:37 When the grant was approved on 2 January 2024,

01:42 it means that the transition to the classification of households based on clean income has already happened.

01:52 We can take the approach that we use the data of the classification without opening it to the public.

02:02 But if that happens, there is a possibility that the risk of falling will still be there.

02:10 So, that is why we opened it on 31 March 2024,

02:17 so that the public can take this opportunity to consume the existing administrative data and pack it up.

02:25 So, if the government says that it has not been implemented, it is not correct, actually.

02:31 Because everyone who has ever been in government administration, including those on the other side,

02:38 including the state government, knows that for us to really have an impact in delivering assistance

02:45 and shaping the form of the socio-economic programme,

02:48 we need not only the correct data, but also more and more variable data and more detailed than the existing data.

02:55 So, the provision of data needs to be done better before we can easily say,

03:04 "We want to do this, we want to do that," and we switch.

03:08 So, that is why the time to pack up the family information and to assess the existing administrative data in the government database

03:21 needs to be welcomed and supported by all parties, including those on the other side,

03:28 so that as many people as possible can pack up now.

03:31 And when 31 March 2024 is closed,

03:34 that allows the information and income to be used cleanly in each room,

03:43 and has taken into account both data sets.

03:47 After that, the government will implement it from one programme to another.

03:52 And we do not want to be rushed because this involves 30 million Malaysians.

03:58 To the second question, the one about the middle class can fall into the lower class and so on,

04:07 it goes back to my original answer,

04:10 that the government's goal is to switch from the middle class based on the overall income,

04:17 which is B40, M40, T20, to the income that can be used cleanly.

04:23 Because we are aware that this is not the real picture or fair picture of the socioeconomic status of a family.

04:34 That is why there are those who are M40, but when we look at the location, costs, the number of houses, etc.,

04:42 they are actually B40.

04:44 So when we switch to the income structure that can be used cleanly in the house,

04:50 it directly harmonizes the status

04:56 and with a more fair and correct view of the status of each house,

05:04 so it does not rise or fall.

05:07 What is important is that each assistance and programme is really up to those who are qualified,

05:15 and that will ensure that we reduce the risk of failure,

05:20 and what is called inclusion and exclusion errors with the permission of the TransLink Department.

05:26 Thank you.

05:27 I invite Mr. Ahmad.

05:28 Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Mr. Minister.

05:31 This is a question from the second question, which is about the whole system.

05:37 I think we can see that the number is still not reaching the target.

05:44 The number is still very low, from 30 million people.

05:47 And I would like to know what steps we can take as soon as possible to register as many as possible.

05:55 And number two is related to whether these numbers are still low

06:01 because there is concern by the community that the data provided is safe and not,

06:07 because there are also people outside or this thing is also politicized that the data provided may not be safe.

06:15 Maybe the Minister can give a little assurance to the community that the data is safe

06:21 and also steps to achieve the target of full registration.

06:27 That's all.

06:28 Please, Minister.

06:29 Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

06:30 The question about full registration is the most frequently asked question from all MPs for this session,

06:38 and I will answer in detail.

06:41 So, I don't want to use this two minutes only to answer that.

06:46 We can have, because there are at least 42 questions about full registration.

06:51 But in terms of the concern that the registration that exists now,

06:59 as far as 25 February, around 3.79 million,

07:07 we always look at several perspectives,

07:10 that is, we look at how much has been accumulated compared to the number of citizens, 30 million.

07:16 We actually look at the contents of the house.

07:19 The contents of the house is 7.9 million and combined with the homeless and those who are not family

07:29 are also counted as one of the contents of the house.

07:32 The total contents of the house is expected to rise to 9 million.

07:35 So, when we compare the total contents of the house,

07:39 it cannot be compared to 30 million,

07:41 it has to be compared to the total contents of the house, which is around 9 million.

07:45 That's the first.

07:46 The second is, all this data is already there.

07:52 What we want is for it to be collected now,

07:56 when it is implemented, it does not arise people say,

07:59 "Why can't I get it? Why am I like that?" and so on.

08:03 The question is, is it with the registration or collection that is still considered low compared to the amount of 30 million,

08:12 does it question the integrity of the data in the house?

08:17 That is also not entirely correct,

08:19 because if the data in the house is considered incorrect,

08:23 all the data in the government system, from the government of the prefectures,

08:29 to the government, to the Zakat Institute, and so on, are also incorrect.

08:34 Because the information comes from the data.

08:37 So, the best thing is, we will ensure that the remaining time of this month

08:44 can be fully used by a certain number of families,

08:50 by taking into account a few situations.

08:54 For example, there are groups that feel that they are not worthy of getting a large subsidy.

09:03 So, they say they don't want to collect it now, because the data is already there.

09:09 There are also those who may wait for the time closer to 31 March.

09:16 There are also those who may be in a hurry to collect it now,

09:21 when the government announces the form of large subsidies.

09:25 But that does not interfere with the plan that all the data,

09:32 the information of the contents of this house from the data of the prefectures,

09:36 must be ready by 31 March 2024,

09:40 to enable the next government socio-economic programs

09:45 to be converted into income to be able to use the contents of the house.

09:51 Mr. Itam, please.

09:52 Thank you, Minister. I understand the answer.

09:55 Maybe before that, there were many who misunderstood.

09:58 Because B40, 40, T20 actually are not included.

10:03 To increase the income of each category is the responsibility of the government.

10:07 But subsidies are not given just because of this classification.

10:11 I agree with this.

10:12 And the Disposable Income is a new concept.

10:15 I just want to ask the audience, from the hearing earlier,

10:18 when we fill in the 39 questions,

10:22 there are questions about the liability of loans, personal loans, etc.

10:26 Who will do the data verification?

10:30 Because, secondly, we see that each agency does not have data.

10:35 As you said, how can the data information be verified?

10:40 Because in the system we want to fill in,

10:43 there is no verification that we can make any changes.

10:47 So why not put it in interactively?

10:51 And thirdly, my question is,

10:54 if we combine it with the Disposable Income,

10:57 there is one problem.

10:58 People who are more, if they give a term,

11:01 not to say a little expensive compared to others,

11:03 they are in a hurry.

11:04 This is the Disposable Income, maybe higher.

11:07 How to make a correction about this perception and also data security?

11:14 Because the PDP, the agency will not release it.

11:17 But how do we avoid from the hacker entering,

11:21 taking all the information and finally we will be victims?

11:26 What is the government guarantee about this so that the data is not leaked?

11:30 I think this will convince the people to fill in the whole system.

11:35 Thank you.

11:36 Thank you, Mr. Hidam.

11:39 I think there is a little confusion.

11:42 When we talk about the income that can be used to clean the house,

11:47 and we determine the basic cost of living,

11:52 it does not depend on what is stated by the house owner.

11:58 Because the data is already in the government administration data,

12:05 or macroeconomic data,

12:09 based on the survey of income and household expenses.

12:15 That is why we know, for example,

12:17 if the income of a normal life in an area is 3,000,

12:25 and for living with that rate,

12:29 how much is the rent, the food according to the category of calories,

12:35 according to the age, and so on.

12:37 These are the data that are already there,

12:39 and the determination of how much is rejected from the basic cost of living

12:46 is not from what is stated in the current data.

12:51 It is based on the economic data collected from the 89,000 households,

12:58 which is also the basis of all the other data.

13:03 The current determination is needed for several specific purposes.

13:08 First, it is to ensure that there is no corruption.

13:14 So, if there is, for example, a group or family whose income

13:22 and income can be used to clean their family,

13:25 it is indeed worthy of getting income,

13:28 but it is not in the list of STR, JKM, and so on.

13:33 This is the first purpose, to identify these groups.

13:38 That is to overcome exclusion error.

13:43 Another is to overcome inclusion error.

13:47 Because there are also people who are actually on the list of recipients for decades,

13:55 but they are not worthy, either because they are not eligible,

13:59 or because their situation has changed.

14:02 Therefore, through this current determination,

14:06 after it happens,

14:08 it enables the algorithm in the group to determine the validity.

14:14 There will be several specific categories.

14:17 For example, if the determination data is consistent with everything that has been stated,

14:25 this is already a category of households that we call gold standard.

14:31 This means that the determination data with the actual situation is really accurate.

14:37 But if there is a difference,

14:39 or if there are things that are different,

14:43 this algorithm will be verified and then will be included in the category that will be studied and verified better.

14:53 For example,

14:55 there are families that have received government assistance for years,

15:00 from BRIM to STR.

15:03 Because we do not count the number of cars they have.

15:07 So, when, for example, a family is included,

15:12 they show their income is 1,500.

15:15 So, they are really poor and they get help.

15:18 But with the determination data,

15:22 we can know that they actually have five cars.

15:25 Their car is a luxury car.

15:27 And the budget, look at where they live and so on,

15:31 this is impossible for someone who has received so much income all this time,

15:37 can have a life like this,

15:39 and it is verified by the determination data.

15:43 This is one category, the black one.

15:45 This is one category.

15:46 And we will start cleaning one by one.

15:50 So, that is actually the purpose of the cleaning now.

15:53 Actually, to enable,

15:55 if before this,

15:57 every time the government builds a large socio-economic and assistance program,

16:03 there will be problems.

16:05 Some people say, "I should get it, but I can't.

16:08 That person should not get it."

16:10 And so on.

16:11 So, this combination is one way

16:14 that we can institute,

16:17 including with a higher skill of data,

16:20 so that it makes it easier for the government

16:23 to identify,

16:25 clean,

16:26 and achieve those who before this,

16:30 get out of the assistance that they should.

16:33 And we are seeing it.

16:35 [ Silence ]

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