Fitbaw Talk: Breaking down the Old Firm's loss, and could Warnock be replaced early?
Martyn, Barry and Ben look at Hearts, Hibs, Rangers, Celtic and Aberdeen.
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00:00 [Music]
00:07 Hello and welcome to National World Fitna Talk, your nan's favourite football podcast again.
00:12 It's a show where we break down the latest news and results from around the Scottish Premiership and the SPFL.
00:17 I'm Martin Simpson, joined once again by Barry Anderson and Ben Banks, and we're going to be going over the latest round of results.
00:24 So guys, first thing I want to ask is, I don't know if anyone knows this stat off the top of their head, but can anyone remember the last time Celtic and Rangers both lost league matches in the same weekend?
00:37 I've written enough articles to know it was 2018.
00:41 2018.
00:43 And what about before that? Because it's certainly not something that happens very often, is it?
00:48 No, no, I mean, you can't say either. Harts and Mullow, obviously Mullow winning on the Saturday and Harts on the Sunday.
00:55 Both teams, it wasn't like a smash and grab win, I don't think, for either of them, especially Sunday.
01:01 Yeah, both teams fully deserved their victories and I'm sure we're going to speak about sort of the ramifications that has for the league at large.
01:09 Well, just looking at that Rangers-Motherwell game, Ben, like you say, for Motherwell to go to Ibrox, in your opinion, deserve to win, like you say, not just a smash and grab.
01:20 How much do you think there was a degree of luck there or do you think Motherwell really just overall were potentially the better team?
01:27 No, I mean, I think Mullow were the better team. Rangers just had a total off day and Mullow played the best game of the season.
01:34 It's kind of that perfect storm you need in these type of games to get wins, even if Mullow had maybe been 8 out of 10, Rangers probably just about do enough to get over the line.
01:44 And I think when James Tavenier scored the penalty, I think a minute before that, Blair Spittle hit the bar for Mullow.
01:49 Rangers got the other end, get a penalty and you sort of think, well, if you're a Mullow fan, you're probably sitting there thinking, oh, here we go.
01:54 We've seen this story before, ends up 2-3-1 to Rangers. But fair play to Mullow.
01:59 They rallied, great header at the back post by Dan Casey. A bit of debate, obviously, over whether he should have been still in the park or not, because VAR wanted to try and have its best say on this weekend's action.
02:13 But yeah, a great result for Mullow. Theo Bair, arguably in terms of the NFL and American football have a thing called comeback player of the year.
02:23 If there was such an award in the SPFL, Theo Bair has already won it. He is heading towards 20 goal involvements for the season at Mullow, which for anybody that watched him at St. Johnson is startling.
02:36 A hugely impressive coaching job by Stuart Kettlewell and fair play to the players as well.
02:40 And in terms of Rangers, I mean, they're just fortunate the Celtic also slipped up because the narrative has sort of been that Rangers are this all-conquering force and Celtic the wheels are falling off a bit.
02:52 Whereas if Celtic had managed to get the result on Saturday, despite this all-conquering force, they'd still have been behind in the title race.
02:59 So it's a weekend that serves as a warning for Rangers that they can't have games like this going forward because Celtic will eventually punish them if more of these performances crop up.
03:09 Just before we get on to a brilliant result for Hearts Barry, what did you make of Celtic's performance at the weekend?
03:16 Difficult to say because of the red card. I think the red card skewed things a bit. That's not to detract from Hearts' performance because Hearts were superb.
03:26 But Celtic, it would have been interesting to see if they'd have scored the penalty, mentally doors, and if they'd have kept 11 men on the pitch.
03:35 I just felt they've not been clicking really for a few weeks. Celtic, they haven't quite got that momentum that they had earlier in the season and certainly last season when Ainsboros de Colgui was in charge.
03:47 But they are still a formidable force. They're still a team full of international players.
03:52 Carter Vickers coming back is clearly a big thing for them. They were missing Callum McGregor. I think his influence on Sunday, even with 10 men, was obvious.
04:01 I think if McGregor had been in the team and Celtic go down to 10 men, then he's the one that starts calming people down, controlling things, still trying to influence the play, and lower your man down.
04:13 They weren't able to do that on Sunday. A lot of that was down to Hearts and the energy and tenacity that they showed.
04:19 But McGregor is clearly a huge miss. No team in the country would not miss a player of Callum McGregor's quality. I think that was a fairly big factor on it as well.
04:29 On Hearts, obviously, I don't want to put a negative spin on it because it was a brilliant result in performance, but does it make that result at Ibrox a few weeks earlier slightly more disappointing?
04:44 We don't want to talk about how much of a realistic challenge they had of catching second and splitting the old firm, but do you think maybe there is just a little twinge of annoyance there?
04:57 I think there certainly was at the time. They were really disappointed at the time with how they defended.
05:03 The overall performance was way, way shorter than what they had been producing up until then, but it was a very off day, similar to what Rangers have had against Monoville there at the weekend.
05:14 It was a very off day and just one of those games where there was not any kind of performance.
05:18 I think they've got that out of their system now. They got a point in the derby, which again wasn't probably their best performance against Hibs.
05:26 Then they've beaten Celtic at home, first time that they've beaten Celtic twice in the one season since 2011/12.
05:34 What they've got now is an opportunity to make sure that they get third, first and foremost. That's clearly the priority.
05:43 Now there's an opportunity to try and close the gap on Celtic. I don't think there's enough games left for Hearts to catch Celtic now.
05:48 I think that's probably gone, but it'll be interesting to see just how many points they can claw back.
05:54 With the Scottish Cup coming up this weekend, how pivotal do you think that is to their season now?
06:01 Because like you say, third place is all but secured. Second looks just too far away.
06:07 It's sort of almost all they have left to play for, really, isn't it?
06:12 I still think there's work to be done to get third over the line.
06:17 They can say that Hearts can only throw it away.
06:19 But the thing with the Scottish Cup is for anybody, not just Hearts, everybody that's still left in the Scottish Cup is aware of the rewards.
06:26 If you get to the Scottish Cup final and you manage to win it, that's a tough ask when you've got the biggest clubs in the country to try and overcome first.
06:35 But if you get there, then you take the Scottish Cup's European slot, which as we all know is the Europa League playoff place,
06:44 which guarantees group stage football through to Christmas.
06:47 So for anybody in the country that isn't Celtic or Rangers, that's an absolute godsend if you can manage to achieve that.
06:56 Financially, it's worth more than £5 million.
06:59 Prestige, just the kind of glamour of it, whether you end up in the Europa League, if you get through the playoff, if you get beat, then you drop into the Conference League groups.
07:07 So that prize at the end of it is massive for any team, not just Hearts.
07:12 It puts Hearts in this weird situation, doesn't it, where obviously you're in a cup and the only goal is to win it, but Hearts are almost defending something.
07:20 I know you said that the Do still need to do a bit of work to secure third place, but given that that's almost over the line, you have to feel,
07:29 they're now in the Scottish Cup and they're kind of thinking, well, say just hypothetically they got to the semi-finals and they got Kilmarnock or Aberdeen.
07:39 I mean, not only are they winning that to get to the final, but they're taking away a team that could potentially take that third place reward away from them if Hearts, Celtic or Rangers don't win the Cup.
07:54 But I want to just, before we move on to the other teams, just a quick word on Laurence Shankland.
07:59 Another goal at the weekend there.
08:03 There is beginning to be a lot of talk. I mean, I think we know he's going to be going to Germany.
08:11 It would be a shock at this stage if he didn't, but actually talking about him potentially being Scotland's first choice striker.
08:19 How do we both feel about that, starting with yourself, Ben? Because I'm looking at how the other contenders are doing.
08:26 Lyndon Dykes has never been a prolific goal scorer in his career, apart from a brief spell at Livingston.
08:34 But he's never really been picked by Clark for his goals as much as the sort of physicality and the work he gets through and also being a decent finisher when he gets a chance.
08:44 Che Adams is having a respectable enough season. I don't watch Southampton enough to be seen on, but I can see that he is regularly scoring goals.
08:55 Do you think there's much chance of Shankland, regardless almost of how many goals he scores for Hearts this season,
09:02 displacing not just one of those two, but potentially both of them to be first choice striker?
09:08 I think the thing that will maybe hinder him is, and it's fine that this isn't a criticism, it's worked for Steve Clarke, but he's very much got a settled 11 that regardless really,
09:20 obviously club form comes into it a little bit, but it's not the overriding factor. He's very much got a system that works with certain players that works.
09:28 Lyndon Dykes isn't a prolific goal scorer. Wasn't even that at Livingston before he got his move, but it's what he brings to the overall team.
09:35 He's a big reason why the likes of Scott McTominay and things like that have scored their goals in the Scotland team.
09:41 But if you're looking at a natural goal scorer who's going to be in and around the penalty box and scoring you goals, it's not even a debate.
09:48 Shanklin, this isn't a flash in the pan season now for Shanklin. They did this last season.
09:53 Even if you want to go into the championship when they initially get called up, he did it there as well.
09:58 He's prolifically scored 20 plus goals. I think he'll probably, I think he will be on 30 this season for a few seasons now.
10:07 And there is nobody else who is Scottish and a high enough league that can be called sort of Scotland class, if you want to call it putting up the numbers.
10:15 He is the best striker in Scotland just now.
10:18 And if you're talking about a penalty box striker, there isn't anybody else apart from Shanklin who can take that position at the minute.
10:25 You watch him near enough week in, week out, Barry. What's your take on it?
10:29 Personally, as someone who wants the national team to always do well, I would have no qualms with Shanklin being the starting striker for Scotland right at this minute.
10:43 And potentially, you know, when the Euros come around, I just think he's in that rich vein of form.
10:47 And if that continues, then he's got to be a contender.
10:50 I think a lot will depend on what he does and how he plays and performs.
10:55 It would be interesting if maybe even his form could potentially hinder his minutes in the upcoming friendlies.
11:02 Because like saying, it's almost certain that Dykes, Adams and Shanklin will be going.
11:08 Whoever he takes, four out and out strikers, I don't know, you'd think three would be enough, given that we've seen the likes of Ryan Christie play in a sort of false nine role.
11:17 But I wonder more if he knows those will be his three strikers now.
11:24 Injuries could happen.
11:26 If you might want to take a look at some of the more peripheral figures and then start them up front, for example, against Northern Ireland or one of the other matches at the Plagia, just to see if, well, if the worst does happen and one of Dykes, Adams or Shanklin goes down, who else he could possibly take?
11:44 Rather than give Shanklin more minutes because he knows he's going to be taking them anyway.
11:51 We're going to take a quick break now, but we'll be back shortly.
11:54 Welcome back.
12:08 I do expect, like, for example, you would think Shanklin will lead the line against the Netherlands and that will be a good opportunity for him to be tested against a high quality team and atmosphere like the Johan Cruyff Arena.
12:24 But it remains to be seen.
12:26 Moving on, Ben, I want to speak about Hibbs.
12:29 Hibbs are, they're not, I don't, two draws and two wins in the last four games. I don't know if it would be right to say that they're hitting a bit of form, but things are starting, certainly starting to improve from where they were maybe four or five weeks ago.
12:44 And it looks like the January recruitment that Hibbs did, it's starting to pay off.
12:51 The new signings are really starting to flourish quite a bit.
12:55 I think part of that as well is he's shifted from this 4-4-2 to a more 4-3-3 style approach.
13:02 And I think that's the big thing, because I don't think even when he came in, there was any real, I think everybody looked at Hibbs' attack even before the guys like Malida and Marcondes came in, who have made a massive difference.
13:13 But Juan, Boyle, Venti, they had Deutsch at the time, Tavares all of a sudden was coming on in a game.
13:19 They looked OK going forward, but it was at the back, they were just conceding, it didn't matter how good those guys were, they were conceding goals every other game, most games, sometimes two and three.
13:30 And that was the issue.
13:32 It's now the case of they've changed to this format.
13:35 And I think they probably are slightly less exciting to watch.
13:39 They're still fairly decent going forward, I think Marcondes is brilliant, in the derby especially, he really pulled the strings in that game.
13:45 Malida is a bit more of a direct presence up front, and you can tell the level he's been at and some of the fees he's commanded in his career.
13:53 But I think at the back, more or less, just giving them a bit of structure really.
13:58 Joe Newell's almost dropped into a centre-back role when they've been going forward.
14:03 Just that wee bit of calmness to build from the back, like he's probably wanted to do in the 4-4-2, but hasn't really been able to.
14:09 He's now been able to do that in this sort of new structure, and I think that's probably the big reason why they're on such a, I wouldn't say such a good run of form at the minute, because they have, it is undefeated in five.
14:19 I think you need a couple more games before you can start saying that they're on a brilliant run of form or anything.
14:24 But it'll be a big test for them this weekend, it'll be a big test for them to see how much improvement they've really made.
14:32 Well, yeah, because after the Cup game, Barry, three of their next four league matches, I believe, are Ross County, St Johnston and Livingston.
14:44 So, I mean, they've got the opportunity there, they have got Rangers and amongst that, but they've got the opportunity there to kick on, definitely secure a top-six place,
14:56 which given that, like I said, in the sense that they aren't exactly hitting form, Dundee haven't had a huge drop-off in form quite yet, but it's certainly trending that way.
15:08 Hibs are starting to improve at the right time and Dundee are maybe just starting to show signs of dropping off at the wrong time.
15:15 So, I mean, what do you think? I personally, I'd be backing them to make the top-six now and maybe even have a pretty good go at fourth place.
15:25 Yeah, I think I said that on my Twitter last week and a lot of people were moaning at me about it.
15:33 Hibs have, in the last three games, I think they've just harnessed a little bit of momentum, they've just found a bit of a niche of spend points out there with the changing system and that's got them going again.
15:46 I think that was pretty important because they were wide open, far too wide open with the 4-4-2 and bringing Marcondes in, just playing that kind of number 10 role in front of the midfield, just solidifies them a little bit and gives them a bit more security.
15:59 That's made a huge difference and you're right, Martin, I think going forward with the fixtures they've got coming up, I would definitely expect them to be in the top-six and if they can keep going the way they have done in the last three games.
16:10 I was very impressed with them at Tyncastle, just the way they went about their business and Hartsworth defending there for long spells in that second half.
16:19 If they can continue that level of performance, I would expect them to be challenging for fourth spot and potentially getting into Europe again.
16:28 Considering where they were in the up and down season that they've had and the new manager coming in, I think that would be a fairly decent outcome for them.
16:36 That would be a great result for them. But let's move on again.
16:42 Can, Ben, can you sack an interim manager after a few games?
16:49 Probably not, but with Aberdeen, I don't think anything is off the table at this stage.
16:55 From 95 minutes to 97 minutes encapsulated Aberdeen season, just when you think everyone is going to be okay, everything is not okay, it's all very bad and it's all going horribly wrong.
17:08 That's just sort of been the way it is. They've had these couple of results.
17:12 I know Dave Cormack came on Twitter or whatever Elon Musk is calling it these days to talk basically, say we're not going to do walking away and things like that.
17:20 Fans just want to see results in the park at this stage. I know that's not really, that's maybe a bit of an old school dinosaur type statement.
17:27 But all these sort of statements are just, they don't really mean anything at this minute in time because you've got the manager there who is coming out after every press conference, slating his players after another defeat.
17:40 I can't imagine where confidence is at the minute. And it seems as if the Warnock experiment of coming in and sort of, I think I said it on this as well.
17:49 He's so used to lifting sides who are properly in the mire and lifting them up to maybe where Aberdeen are now, which is sort of lingering above the drop zone.
17:58 But that's usually a good outcome for him. That's usually the target. The target was top six in Europe when he came in and it just looks like he was the wrong actor and the wrong movie to be quite frank.
18:10 So yeah, I think you're now into the alarm stage if you're an Aberdeen fan.
18:16 I wouldn't be surprised to be honest with you if Warnock is no longer Aberdeen interim manager by the end of March. Just the way things are going.
18:27 They've got the Kilmarnock in the cup this weekend. Amazingly, I don't know how, but the bookmakers make Aberdeen favourites for that.
18:35 I don't know what they are seeing that I'm not and the rest of Scottish football isn't.
18:40 They've then got to go to Dundee and Motherwell in their next two league matches and then Ross County at home to end out the month.
18:48 And like things could go from really bad to a hell of a lot worse for them by that time.
18:54 And honestly, I know Peter Leven's a bit of a, when he got there, when he took that one game before Warnock's appointment,
19:03 no one was expecting him to get the job because obviously well enough known around Scottish football was coaching and assistant manager gigs.
19:11 But yeah, he looked quite good in that game against Celtic.
19:14 I wouldn't be surprised if maybe sort of whoever's running things at Aberdeen, Dave Cormack and the rest of the football operating boards do just kind of say,
19:24 well, look, Neil, it's clearly things have gotten worse somehow since you came in.
19:29 But yeah, I just, I don't think you can let someone drag you willingly into a proper relegation scrap, which is where Aberdeen are heading.
19:42 It's a really worrying time there.
19:46 Sorry to interrupt. My thinking is I wonder if Neil Lennon may have a part to play in this before the season ends.
19:54 That's not coming from any particular knowledge or anything.
20:00 I just wonder if they do decide that it's not working with Neil Warnock and if they go out the cup this weekend against Comarnach,
20:08 then do they look for a change and do they look for Lennon to come in and put some rockets up backsides and try to get them going again?
20:16 Particularly, they're sitting four points above the relegation zone in the Premiership and that's a precarious position for anybody, especially a club like Aberdeen Sax.
20:23 I'm just thinking out loud, I wonder if he might have something to do in the last few games.
20:29 Sorry to interrupt. I personally think the SPFL scriptwriters have already decided in August that Jim Goodwin would face Aberdeen in the relegation, the Premiership playoffs.
20:41 And I think there's a few fans probably of other clubs, not Aberdeen, Dundee and 82 would be intrigued to say the least to see if that matchup came to light.
20:51 We've only got a few minutes left, so I just want to kind of quickfire through some other things.
20:58 Barry Livingston picking up a point at MacDiarmid Park, is that a good point given that there's still only six points from Ross County?
21:08 Had Ross County lost, Aberdeen lost, they picked up a point or have they actually maybe missed a chance to close that gap even further?
21:17 No, I think it's a decent point under the circumstances. Any point away from home, again, when you make up a little bit of ground, then you've got to accept that, particularly the position that Livingston's in.
21:31 One league win since October and that was at home to St Mirren, so you're just not in a position where your beckons can be choosers.
21:39 I think they'll take what they can get at the moment. They still look in real trouble in that premiership table.
21:44 If they can even manage to get themselves up into the playoff place, I think that would be an achievement for them given where they are at the moment.
21:52 But the games they've got coming up don't look favourable in the slightest.
21:56 Even taking the cup aside, they play Celtic in the cup this weekend, then they're away to Hibs, then they play Celtic, then it's Aberdeen, then they're away to Harps before the split.
22:06 Finally, Ben, we've run out of time, we just want to mention St Mirren.
22:11 St Mirren currently occupy fourth in the league, but the way things have looked recently for them, I don't know if you'd back them to hold on to that.
22:19 It's funny because they have had wins in recent games, but they've also drawn with Ross County and lost to Livingston.
22:26 The win over Aberdeen, it's fair to say St Mirren were not at their best. Aberdeen chucked that game away and gifted them the three points.
22:35 How do you feel? I would be surprised if we don't see Kilmarnock or Hibs taking fourth spot this season.
22:43 I think St Mirren will be fourth, to be quite honest. I think they've shown enough over the season consistently.
22:49 I think outside of Harps, in terms of the provincial clubs, it's been Kilmarnock and St Mirren that have been the ones that even when they're not great, they've got three points.
22:59 I think the game that maybe sums that up is they were playing Motherwell in September and they were pretty poor, but they got one chance, they took it, they won 1-0.
23:08 It was a really important three points for them at that stage in the season. It could be pivotal come May time.
23:14 I think Kwon in the middle of the park has made a big difference for them from Celtic. He's really brought stability.
23:21 Mark Ahara, Keanu Backus, he's a really good midfield. Olu Sanya has popped up with some important goals.
23:27 Mikael Mandron has made big contributions at times this season as well.
23:30 I think they've got enough in the position they're in now that while I don't think maybe the form table over the last 10 games, maybe Hibs would do slightly better than them.
23:39 I don't think it'll be enough for them to leapfrog them into fourth. I think that'll be St Mirren's.
23:44 We could go on, but that's all we've got time for. Thank you very much, Barry. Thank you, Ben. We'll be back next week with more Fitbit talk.
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