Women's Day 2024 | Welspun Living CEO Dipali Goenka Shares Her Journey | NDTV Profit
From a homemaker to a businesswoman: Welspun Living CEO Dipali Goenka shares her journey.
Watch her in conversation with Samina Nalwala.
Read: https://bit.ly/3v8Czgs
Watch her in conversation with Samina Nalwala.
Read: https://bit.ly/3v8Czgs
Transcript
00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 - Hello and welcome.
00:08 Today we have a very special guest joining us on the show.
00:11 She started as CEO with a soul.
00:14 I'm talking about none other than the very beautiful,
00:16 intelligent, successful Dipali Goenka of Wellspun Living.
00:21 Thank you Dipali for joining us today.
00:24 Dipali, I'm gonna start with the usual, right?
00:27 I want you to go back in time.
00:28 You've been at the helm of Wellspun for over two decades.
00:32 But from what I hear and what I read,
00:34 you didn't always start off as an entrepreneur.
00:36 You were a homemaker.
00:38 Was it a eureka moment that happened?
00:40 Was it something you dwelled upon for many years?
00:42 Was it your mother?
00:43 Was it your husband?
00:44 Or was it just you?
00:45 - I started working when my girls were 10 and seven
00:50 and I was a homemaker before that.
00:52 Yes, you're right on that.
00:54 The thing that actually led me to do that
00:57 was that a couple of things.
00:59 One is that, coming in from a patriarchal Marwari community,
01:03 I really wanted to set an example for my daughters.
01:06 And that's where I wanted to really take that on.
01:09 And as a human being, as an individual,
01:13 I continue to evolve and I want to evolve constantly
01:17 and constantly learn.
01:18 I think that's where it also was the curiosity
01:21 that got me to get into this.
01:23 So yeah, that's where it is.
01:25 And here I am today.
01:27 - It's been a long and commendable journey,
01:30 but I still want to dwell a little bit more upon
01:32 what do you think happened, right?
01:35 It's not as if the kids got older,
01:37 you wanted to set an example and you're like,
01:38 "Hey, I'm going to go and join my husband."
01:40 It clearly wasn't that.
01:41 Your DNA, I mean, you're probably made of something else.
01:44 Was it your mom?
01:45 Do you think you attribute a little bit of that success
01:47 to your upbringing in some sense?
01:49 - So I've seen my, I'm inspired totally by my mom
01:52 because she used to work then as well
01:55 and being coming in from a conservative community as well,
01:58 but she used to work and that actually inspired me.
02:02 And that has always been my inspiration.
02:04 And more so, I think for me, it wasn't that one fine day
02:09 I just joined in the business, it never was.
02:12 It was made clear to me that if you come in,
02:14 you come in as an employer, Wellspun,
02:17 and you need to do what needs to be
02:20 what everybody else does in the way
02:21 and the kind of protocols that are there.
02:24 So yes, I didn't come in as the wife
02:27 of the chairman of the group at all.
02:29 And that wasn't the way I have been actually.
02:32 I started with my brand Spaces in 2003,
02:36 understood the kind of buying behavior of the consumers
02:39 and learned the whole patterns in India.
02:42 And gradually as I was doing this,
02:45 comes 2009 and 10 is the time I've been told that,
02:48 "Yes, you can join.
02:49 "You need to join the Wellspun Textile Group."
02:53 But that wasn't a bed of roses either
02:55 because this has been a very dominant,
02:58 clearly male dominant industry.
03:01 Very few women, I think in the leadership position.
03:04 And there were a lot of doubts that is Wellspun
03:07 even serious about doing business in textiles.
03:11 And I think, and that's where it gave me more resolve
03:15 and a determination to do what I could do.
03:18 - You know, it's interesting
03:18 because it's either you're a homemaker
03:21 or an entrepreneur or a business woman.
03:25 You must have done both
03:26 because at 10 and seven, your girls still needed you.
03:29 So you were pulling what, 18 hours a day?
03:31 Because unlike most employees who have,
03:34 sure, they have to prove themselves,
03:36 but you had a lot more to carry.
03:37 I mean, you were the head that wore the crown in that sense.
03:40 - My girls were very young.
03:43 I had to take up their work,
03:44 get them to school and that was needed.
03:47 But I also had to work.
03:49 But I think it was well worth it when I look back.
03:54 And then I even asked my girls
03:56 and they tell me that, you know,
03:59 this is what actually mommy set up an example for us.
04:02 And we wouldn't have had it any other way.
04:04 It was difficult, but I think,
04:08 when is it easy when you want to learn and evolve?
04:11 And I think evolutions are, you know, difficult.
04:16 But I think that's the only way I can have it ever.
04:20 Because I always believe that, you know,
04:22 if you got to learn,
04:23 you got to really put in your hard work and, you know,
04:27 and your toil.
04:28 So, yeah.
04:29 - Did you study any of this that you actually practice?
04:32 And when I ask you that is what I want to understand
04:34 is you study design?
04:35 Did you study textiles?
04:37 Did you go away to college and study finance?
04:40 Or was it just part of the course, part of the course?
04:44 - You know, the interesting thing is,
04:45 I got married at the age of 18.
04:47 - Oh, wow.
04:48 - Yeah.
04:49 And when I took on spaces is the time when I realized
04:52 that I need to just ramp up and understand more
04:56 and delve into, you know, the kind of,
04:59 you know, and upskill myself, right?
05:01 And I think upskill is something
05:03 that you constantly have to do.
05:05 And I took a giant leap and went to Harvard
05:08 and did the OPM.
05:09 And, you know, and that's where I just took that leap.
05:13 And I always believe that you constantly have to upskill.
05:17 So like you're talking about today,
05:18 when the world's talking about AI,
05:20 we're talking about so many other things, aren't we?
05:23 So I think constantly,
05:25 as the world, at the space,
05:29 the pace that the world is evolving,
05:30 we've also got to evolve.
05:32 And I think that's what I continue to do as well today.
05:35 You have to upskill yourselves.
05:37 That could be a reason there that I was upskilling
05:39 in some other things,
05:39 but today I have to upskill in digitization,
05:43 artificial intelligence and something more, you know?
05:46 - And you still have the same fire you did 20 years ago?
05:49 Are you still as excited?
05:51 - Because if I didn't, I wouldn't work.
05:53 - You'd put your shoes up, huh?
05:54 - Yeah, yeah, yeah.
05:55 Because if I'm not excited about what I do
05:57 and I don't have a spring in my feet
05:59 when I wake up in the morning,
06:00 that means I'm done.
06:02 - Wow.
06:03 Let's start with what Diwali's day looks like,
06:05 from the get-go in the morning
06:07 to by the time you go to bed.
06:08 And I want to know about what happens when you go home,
06:10 right?
06:11 I'm guessing you still have these conversations
06:12 and they're always work-related.
06:14 More often than not, I'm guessing, with your husband.
06:16 Your daughters, what does a boardroom look like
06:19 from the minute you go to office?
06:21 - No, I wake up early in the morning at around six
06:25 and I have my workout.
06:27 And then before leaving for work,
06:30 I just do my home chores
06:32 and the other things that are needed for the day.
06:34 - So you're still setting menus in the house?
06:36 - I do that sometimes.
06:37 I do that.
06:38 I do that because I think that's the way it is
06:40 and I like doing that.
06:42 And then I'm at work around 9.30.
06:45 And for me, I think it's important
06:48 to check in with my factories
06:50 and my businesses on retail.
06:53 And during the day, it's also about my global businesses
06:57 like America, UK, or the other parts.
07:00 So yeah, it is the constant
07:01 because morning till evening,
07:03 there's a different scale of work that you're talking about.
07:06 And of course, about technology and upskilling
07:10 of a team, of people, culture,
07:15 because we're evolving very fast.
07:17 And as we are growing, I think the important things
07:21 that most conversations are about leadership as well
07:24 and culture.
07:26 I think these are very, very interesting things
07:28 that we are continuing to talk and discuss as well.
07:31 - Do you have time to socialize outside work?
07:33 Oh, that's a big pause.
07:38 - I think I'm an introvert at that.
07:40 For me, I think it ends,
07:47 when I go back home, it's getting my feet up,
07:51 watching Netflix or something and chilling.
07:55 And because I get to bed early because then I--
07:59 - You've got to start early, right?
08:00 - Start early and because there's so much to do.
08:02 Plus I actually also go to my factories very often.
08:05 So every 15 days, one factory or the other
08:08 is something, or I'm traveling out of the country.
08:09 - 20 times, yeah.
08:10 - So yeah, so it's a lot of things to do
08:13 and a lot to learn as well.
08:16 Weekends, sometimes I do socialize.
08:18 - Sometimes, okay.
08:19 Do you micromanage or do you empower?
08:21 - I love to create leaders
08:24 and I love to empower people on that.
08:27 But then I think it's about,
08:29 because I always feel leaders create leaders.
08:33 And I think that's what it is all about.
08:36 I think my job is to inspire people,
08:39 show them the vision and then take that forward.
08:42 And that's where you can really create not only leadership,
08:47 but also create an organization
08:50 that is very accountable.
08:51 - It's beyond you as well, right?
08:52 - Yeah.
08:53 - Do you work with family?
08:54 I believe your daughter--
08:58 - My younger daughter is working with me
08:59 and Vanshika is taking on Christie right now
09:02 and leading it from the front.
09:05 So she's working with me.
09:07 And I've always felt, and that's what I have done,
09:11 and I always feel,
09:11 and I do it to all my leadership teams as well,
09:14 that you let them be.
09:16 You give them a vision,
09:17 let them see and find themselves
09:20 what they feel is relevant for the business.
09:24 And then you continue to have kind of conversations
09:27 about what we can do to evolve that business.
09:31 So yes, Vanshika is working with me
09:33 and I feel for her,
09:36 I think it's been an interesting learning as well
09:40 because she's also working, managing a home as well,
09:43 everything.
09:44 - And she recently got married.
09:45 - She recently got married.
09:46 - Wow.
09:47 You know, Dipali, we usually talk about challenges
09:50 of being a woman in a man's world, right?
09:53 I wanna turn this around a little bit.
09:55 I wanna spin it around and ask you,
09:57 what worked for you being a lady at the helm?
10:00 You, of course, think differently to begin with
10:02 from other men, other board members, directors,
10:06 and all of that put together.
10:07 And what you bring to the table is also,
10:10 some part of it could be attributed to being a woman, right?
10:12 We can't take that away.
10:14 Is it EQ? Is it IQ?
10:15 Is it a mix of both?
10:17 Because I think the new world is all about EQ.
10:20 And I think women do that well and you do that great.
10:24 - No, I think the important thing
10:25 is about the consumer as well.
10:27 And I think EQ comes in easy to women, very, very true.
10:30 And I think this world is all about leadership,
10:35 development of people, teams, creativity.
10:39 And I think that's what is something,
10:42 I think we can do it.
10:43 And I think being a nurturer,
10:45 I think women nurture, you know, very, very well.
10:47 And if you can do that is where
10:50 you can create a world-class organization.
10:53 And if you understand your consumer well,
10:55 I think is what it is.
10:56 So yes, I always believe it's not just about the machines
11:01 or the spreadsheets.
11:02 It's something more beyond that.
11:04 Because I always also say that, you know,
11:07 culture eats strategy for breakfast,
11:09 because it's all about, the heart is at the culture.
11:12 Heart is the people.
11:14 And I think if you can do that well,
11:17 you are successful for sure.
11:19 - You know, you talk about culture
11:21 and you talked about inclusion very briefly.
11:23 And I want you to talk a little bit more about that
11:25 because it's one thing being the leader
11:27 of a pretty large conglomerate, right?
11:30 It's the other, 'cause one is doing interviews
11:32 where you inspire people.
11:34 What else happens at Wellspun?
11:36 What has changed since you came on board?
11:38 To be a little more inclusive,
11:40 to make work conducive for women to come back?
11:43 Because I think the biggest problem
11:45 with even successful, intelligent women is the career break.
11:48 It's not always easy to come back, right?
11:51 Has Wellspun done anything to encourage that?
11:54 - So today I can say in the blue collar,
11:56 we have around 30% women.
11:58 And that's been something really inspiring.
12:02 And we want to have at least 45% women as we go forward.
12:06 And my key thing, if I say,
12:12 and when I hang my boots, I would say that, you know,
12:16 if I've done my work well,
12:17 is where it becomes an equal Wellspun in all ways,
12:22 you know, diverse Wellspun in all ways.
12:24 So I think that's what is very, very important to me.
12:27 So whether it's in the blue collar associates
12:31 or working at the factory level or at the white collar,
12:34 or even the leadership,
12:36 I think is where I really feel we can have more women.
12:40 I'll just share a small anecdote here.
12:43 You know, we did a program
12:44 with one of the biggest retailers.
12:46 It was called Her Finance.
12:48 And one of our girls, Avni Bhadra,
12:50 was chosen out of so many factories around the world
12:54 to represent, you know, this program.
12:56 She flew from Anjar to Arkansas.
12:59 And it actually was so inspiring
13:01 that there were so many Avni Bhadras,
13:04 you know, who were born that time.
13:05 And that's where, you know, you had these 30% women now,
13:10 you know, at the helm of Wellspun's,
13:12 you know, the whole factory floor.
13:14 Even in the white collar,
13:17 we have more women,
13:19 but there's more work yet to be done there, I feel.
13:21 Because I feel you might say that, you know,
13:24 urban, I think, is a little bit more difficult than rural.
13:27 - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, yeah.
13:29 And leadership, my CEO for retail is, you know, is a lady.
13:34 My CEO for Christie is a lady.
13:37 And more leadership, you know, is coming on there.
13:40 And I think we are working on it.
13:42 But I think the opportunity here is
13:45 to have kind of a diverse, but a world that is equal.
13:50 Give them an opportunity to have a flexi-hour.
13:54 Give them an opportunity to come when they want to.
13:57 And because by the end of it, they will work.
14:00 Coming to office doesn't mean that they will--
14:02 - You're working. - You're working, right?
14:04 So I think that's where,
14:05 if you can just be a little bit more flexible,
14:07 I think it gets easier for them as well.
14:09 - What about pre-skill parity?
14:10 Do you think that needs a revisit?
14:12 'Cause that's the other thing, right?
14:14 When you don't show up at work in person,
14:16 when you do flexi-hours,
14:18 you'll end up taking a little bit of,
14:20 a little less money, if I may say.
14:22 - I think by the end of it,
14:23 it's about your work that gets accomplished.
14:25 If that gets accomplished, your goals are set earlier.
14:28 Your KPIs are there.
14:29 And if you're targeting and you're accomplishing that,
14:32 I think that's where we are good.
14:34 I know that there are these kinds of differences
14:37 that exist, you know, in the world.
14:39 But I think at Wellspun, we don't do that at all.
14:43 - Wally, you know, we look at a lot of stuff from numbers,
14:45 and I want to talk to you about the real economy.
14:48 You mentioned construction, real estate is on an upswing.
14:53 And we've seen that in numbers, right?
14:54 We've seen this quarter, the number of sales
14:56 that are happening for the real estate sector.
14:59 Does that mean business is booming for you right now?
15:03 I know it's tough to predict.
15:04 We talked about the lack of predictability,
15:06 but a couple of quarters out,
15:08 do you think growth is looking really solid
15:10 and is only going to be better
15:11 as we go into the next few?
15:13 - So I can say that, you know,
15:15 we are cautiously optimistic here.
15:16 And I feel, I can continue to say
15:20 that there are opportunities.
15:22 And we feel very positive about the business
15:24 that we're doing.
15:25 And overarchingly, I think we are in a good spot
15:30 in the way of as a company, as a country.
15:33 So yeah.
15:34 - So business is looking good?
15:35 - Cautiously optimistic.
15:36 - Okay, good.
15:37 Also, yeah, we've read about the fact
15:40 that you want to be debt-free over the next two years.
15:43 Are you on track to achieve that goal?
15:45 - Yes, we are.
15:46 And we are working towards that.
15:48 So one aspect is that we are working
15:52 towards getting debt-free.
15:53 But however, the other opportunity is
15:56 that if there's an interesting opportunity that comes in,
15:58 whether it's inorganic or anything else,
16:01 we definitely are going to go for it.
16:02 - So fair to say that you're still looking
16:04 for inorganic advice?
16:05 - Yes, yes.
16:06 And that could be an opportunity, yes.
16:08 - And that would be obviously debt?
16:11 - Yes, that would be.
16:13 But definitely the focus and the prudence
16:16 on ROCIE is going to be maintained.
16:19 So a ROCIE of around 15 to 20%
16:21 is something that we're going to work on.
16:22 So yes, so that, you know,
16:23 because we want to take care of our stakeholders
16:26 and the value that we bring on the table for them.
16:28 So that's something that is definitely there.
16:30 Debt-free is on the cards
16:32 and that's where we are working towards.
16:32 - But growth will take precedence over becoming debt-free.
16:35 Also, while you talked about
16:37 how domestic business is looking good,
16:40 your export market has also seen a big growth,
16:43 I think 36% YOY in quarter three.
16:46 Is that growth sustainable?
16:48 And that's not a small base.
16:50 - Yeah, so I can say that, you know, again,
16:52 it's a huge opportunity for India right now.
16:56 And I think India is becoming the center focus
17:01 for everybody across the globe.
17:04 See, China was the factory of the world,
17:06 but I think the China plus one is definitely,
17:09 is working out.
17:10 And I think for all of us in India,
17:13 that is something that the world is looking at.
17:16 So yes, we will see it pan out,
17:19 but I can again, definitely maintain
17:21 that it's a huge opportunity, but cautiously optimistic.
17:24 - Optimistic is still what you want to maintain.
17:26 You know, flooring is the vertical that is recent,
17:30 more new, I mean, it still only contributes 9%
17:33 to your top line.
17:34 What sort of growth numbers are you working with there?
17:37 - We're looking at around 2,400 crores by end of 2026.
17:41 - Of the 15,000 crores. - Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
17:44 And flooring is an opportunity where India is going to be
17:48 at the center fold of, you know, kind of the supply,
17:53 because I think the markets in India,
17:55 in the terms of hospitality institutions,
17:59 the residential segment that is opening up is very big.
18:03 And of course, again, United States of America
18:06 is an opportunity as well for us,
18:08 where, you know, the DIY home retailers to, you know,
18:13 the focus flooring retailers to other partners
18:16 is something that we're looking at.
18:17 GCC again is very interesting as well,
18:20 because you see KSA opening up,
18:22 Middle East in the terms of UAE and the others.
18:24 I think, so it's kind of a mixed bag I see here.
18:28 And flooring is going to be primarily India focused,
18:33 but of course the opportunities in USA
18:36 and globally also is big there too.
18:37 - So conversations are happening, clients are on boarded,
18:40 new clients are coming on board as well.
18:42 - Sure, yeah.
18:43 - Also, any other new verticals you're looking to launch?
18:46 I know you've just got flooring to deal with,
18:48 but in the next couple of years?
18:50 - So, now let me give you a perspective
18:53 on what Wellspun Living is all about.
18:55 And I say that, you know,
18:57 Wellspun Living is, you know, actually home solutions.
19:01 And it's not about a towel or a sheet.
19:03 It's about even, you know, it's like fashion bedding,
19:07 utility bedding, ADR rugs, wall-to-wall carpets,
19:12 flooring, even the face wipes, the face masks.
19:16 In a nutshell, for a consumer, if it's me,
19:20 I wake up in the morning,
19:21 I actually am touched by Wellspun Living goods
19:25 from morning till night.
19:26 - What part of it?
19:28 - Some part of it, you know.
19:29 - The day.
19:30 - Yeah, of the day.
19:31 And that's what we are a part of.
19:33 She wakes up, she wakes up in a bed that's a Wellspun bed,
19:37 puts her foot on the Wellspun flooring,
19:39 goes to the, you know, uses the, you know,
19:43 like uses a face mask, has a shower, uses a Wellspun towel.
19:47 There's a kitchen towel in the kitchen.
19:49 There's a kitchen flooring.
19:51 There are cushions, there are, you know, rugs.
19:54 Even we have a startup that you're working with
19:57 for the domestic, it's called The Drape Story.
20:00 So Space is Drape Story.
20:01 So which does, it's a D2C, you know, segment.
20:06 And you can get your cushions and, you know,
20:11 curtains done in a week's time and they come to you.
20:14 So yeah, we want to be an integral part of her life.
20:19 - Yeah.
20:20 And it's the best time to be, right?
20:21 I mean, this is the growing India.
20:23 How price sensitive is your business?
20:27 - So I think it is.
20:30 I think it's all about the wallet share.
20:33 And we saw that two years back
20:35 when the commodities just were crazy, right?
20:38 And, you know, a consumer allocates a certain part of it
20:42 to the goods that, you know, and this is a discretionary.
20:45 It is not the groceries, right?
20:47 That you need every day.
20:48 So they allocate that certain part
20:50 of that share of the wallet.
20:53 So definitely it is price sensitive as well.
20:57 And, but it also depends upon, you know,
21:01 where we are part of her life and when she wants to buy.
21:06 - I like when you say when she wants to buy.
21:09 - No, it is.
21:10 And I think she's the decision maker.
21:12 And I think it is about, again,
21:16 looking at where we can be a part of her, you know,
21:21 buy, you know, and when can we, you know,
21:24 be more often be in her process of, you know,
21:28 kind of a mindshare.
21:30 So I think that's where we are working on.
21:32 So it's not just a towel that she's picking up.
21:34 Now imagine you have a bundle
21:37 with towel and a face wipe together,
21:39 or you have a spark kit, you know,
21:41 when she wants to just chill.
21:42 So yeah, those are the thoughts you need to just apply
21:45 to see that, you know,
21:46 we are in her decision making more often.
21:48 - No, and grand recall is commendable.
21:51 I mean, I don't know a single person
21:53 who doesn't know a wealth fund, right?
21:55 You'd see a wealth fund in every home.
21:57 Let's just put it like that.
21:59 One quick question.
22:01 What keeps you awake at night?
22:02 I know you have long days, so very few things work.
22:05 But what do you worry about?
22:07 What's concerning for you at this stage?
22:10 - So there are two things that I think about,
22:12 and I think my, you know,
22:13 our goals towards the 15,000 crores
22:16 and how we are, you know, looking at taking that forward
22:19 and, you know, really actually creating value
22:21 for our stakeholders and our people and our teams.
22:25 I think that's a very important thing.
22:27 The second being that post COVID,
22:29 it's been such a dynamic world.
22:30 And I think the commodities are a very big one here,
22:33 which actually is something that keeps you little,
22:37 you know, not nervous,
22:39 but you know how to really find a solution
22:43 to really tackle that and look at it.
22:46 But I think these are the things that really keep me.
22:48 And of course, my people and my leadership teams,
22:51 which I really want to continue to evolve.
22:54 But however, having said that,
22:56 these are exciting times.
22:58 Exciting times for us, exciting times for our country,
23:01 and a huge opportunity at that.
23:03 - And you feel that, right?
23:04 I mean, the real economy,
23:05 I mean, you've got touch and feel with stores.
23:08 So there is a sense that things are looking good for us.
23:11 It's not just those numbers.
23:12 - Yeah, yeah.
23:13 It is definitely looking good for us.
23:15 - Yeah.
23:16 Just one last question.
23:18 Tell us something about you that we don't know.
23:19 We've talked about WellSpan,
23:20 we've talked about life.
23:23 You did mention you're an introvert,
23:24 so that doesn't count.
23:25 Anything else that you want to tell us?
23:29 - I love my--
23:29 - How do you look this great is okay as well.
23:31 (both laughing)
23:33 - No, I'm into weight training.
23:35 I love my strength training.
23:37 - Three days a week?
23:38 - No, four to five days.
23:39 - And you lift heavy?
23:40 - I lift very heavy,
23:41 heavy squats, deadlifts,
23:43 my up, you know,
23:43 and my, you know,
23:45 upper body as well.
23:47 And of course, I love my Kathak.
23:49 I'm a trained classical dancer.
23:51 So that's something that I really love doing
23:55 in my free time as well.
23:56 - Wow. Thank you so much.
23:57 Thank you, Dipali.
23:58 It was great talking to you today.
24:00 - Thank you.
24:00 Thank you so much.
24:01 - Thank you.
24:02 (upbeat music)
24:05 (electronic music)