Amanpour & Co. - February 13, 2024
Once the home of the American dream, suburban neighborhoods now reveal a systemic racial disparity, with new Black and Brown residents struggling with the declining conditions left by white occupants who have moved out. In his book “Disillusioned,” reporter Benjamin Herold looks at 5 suburbs across the country. He speaks with Michel Martin about what families are experiencing in these communities.
NOTE: Due to a copyright claim for some scenes, watch it on Dailymotion on the link: https://dai.ly/x8udm7q.
NOTE: Due to a copyright claim for some scenes, watch it on Dailymotion on the link: https://dai.ly/x8udm7q.
Transcript
00:04>>> HELLO, EVERYONE.
00:05WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & CO."
00:06HERE IS WHAT'S COMING UP.
00:08>> TODAY WE WITNESSED ONE OF THE
00:10MOST HISTORIC AND CONSEQUENTIAL
00:13BILLS TO HAVE EVER PASSED THE
00:16SENATE.
00:17>> THE U.S. INCHES CLOSER TO
00:18SENDING STALLED MILITARY AID TO
00:21UKRAINE AND ISRAEL.
00:22AS THE JORDANIAN KING JOINS
00:26PRESIDENT BIDEN TRYING TO REIGN
00:29IN NETANYAHU.
00:33>>> POETS, WRITERS, MUSICIANS
00:36CAN INSPIRE PEOPLE TO FIND THE
00:38STRENGTH AND COURAGE TO RESIST.
00:39>> WHEN BONO WENT TO BOSNIA.
00:44MATT DAMON JOINS ME ABOUT THE
00:54TRIP TO SARAJEVO.
00:56>>> BENJAMIN TELLS MICHELLE
00:59MARTIN THAT AMERICAN SUBURBS ARE
01:00UNRAVELING.
01:12♪♪
01:20>>> "AMANPOUR & CO." IS MADE
01:24POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY
01:28ENDOWMENT, CANDICE KING WIER,
01:30THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LALAH
01:35AND MICKIE STRAUSS, SETON J.
01:44MELVIN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING
01:50CULTURAL DIFFERENCES, BARBARA
01:53HOPE ZUCKERBERG, ADDITIONAL
01:56SUPPORT BY THESE FUNDERS AND BY
01:59CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS
02:01STATIONS FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
02:02THANK YOU.
02:03>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
02:06I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN
02:10LONDON.
02:10THE SENATE DID NOT PASS ABOUT
02:12PASSING THE AID PACKAGE FOR
02:14UKRAINE AND ISRAEL.
02:14THERE'S NO GUARANTEE IT WILL
02:17MAKE IT THROUGH THE HOUSE WHERE
02:21MAGA-MINDED POLITICIANS ARE MORE
02:22HOSTILE TO SENDING FURTHER
02:24ASSISTANCE TO KYIV.
02:25IN CAIRO, THE U.S. AND ISRAELI
02:27INTELLIGENCE CHIEFS ARE MEETING
02:29WITH INTERMEDIARIES TO HAMMER
02:30OUT A HOSTAGE DEAL AND A PAUSE
02:33IN THE WAR.
02:34IN GAZA, ALL EYES ARE ON RAFAH
02:37WHERE PALESTINIANS ARE BRACING
02:38FOR A GROUND ASSAULT EVEN AS
02:40PRESIDENT BIDEN URGES ISRAEL TO
02:43HOLD OFF AND COME UP WITH A
02:46CLEAR PLAN ABOUT HOW TO ACHIEVE
02:47THE GOALS AND PROTECT CIVILIANS.
02:50LAST NIGHT, JORDAN'S KING, THE
02:52FIRST ARAB LEADER TO FINISH THE
02:56WHITE HOUSE SINCE OCTOBER 7,
02:57CALLED FOR A CEASE-FIRE.
02:58>> WE CANNOT AFFORD AN ISRAELI
03:00ATTACK ON RAFAH.
03:00IT'S CERTAIN TO PRODUCE ANOTHER
03:03HUMANITARIAN CATASTROPHE.
03:05THE SITUATION IS ALREADY
03:08UNBEARABLE FOR OVER A MILLION
03:09PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN PUSHED INTO
03:12RAFAH SINCE THE WAR STARTED.
03:14WE CANNOT STAND BY AND LET THIS
03:19CONTINUE.
03:19WE NEED A LASTING CEASE-FIRE
03:22NOW.
03:23>> MY FIRST GUEST TONIGHT WAS
03:25JORDAN'S FOREIGN MINISTER AND
03:26DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER UNDER KING
03:29ABDULLAH, HAVING BEEN JORDAN'S
03:30FIRST AMBASSADOR TO ISRAEL IN
03:331995.
03:34HE IS JOINING ME.
03:35WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.
03:38YOU JUST HEARD YOUR KING SAY,
03:41QUOTE, WE CANNOT AFFORD AN
03:43ISRAELI ATTACK ON RAFAH.
03:44DO YOU THINK THAT WILL MAKE ANY
03:49DIFFERENCE?
03:51>> OVER A MILLION PALESTINIANS
03:52HAVE BEEN PUSHED FROM NORTH GAZA
03:57TO THE BORDER OF EGYPT IN
03:59SOUTHERN GAZA.
04:01ANY ATTACK ON RAFAH IS GOING TO
04:04RESULT IN HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS
04:07OF PALESTINIANS, PROBABLY TRYING
04:09TO FLEE INTO EGYPT.
04:12WE TALK ABOUT THE CREDIBLE PLAN
04:13TO PREVENT THAT FROM HAPPENING.
04:15BUT, FRANKLY, I DON'T SEE ANY
04:18PLAN THAT CAN BE CREDIBLE IN
04:22PREVENTING -- THEY HAVE NOWHERE
04:24TO GO.
04:25THEY CANNOT GO BACK TO THEIR
04:27HOMES.
04:28THEIR HOMES ARE GONE IN NORTHERN
04:31GAZA.
04:31THEY CAN'T GO BACK BECAUSE
04:33ISRAEL IS PREVENTING THEM FROM
04:34DOING SO.
04:35THEY HAVE NOWHERE TO GO.
04:39>> WHAT THEN DO YOU THINK IS
04:41GOING TO UNFOLD?
04:42DO YOU THINK THERE'S ANY HOPE
04:44FOR THE NEGOTIATIONS THAT ARE
04:47HAPPENING TO GET SOME KIND OF A
04:49PAUSE IN ORDER TO HAVE A HOSTAGE
04:51AND PRISONER SWAP BETWEEN HAMAS
04:53AND ISRAEL?
04:54WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO
04:56PREVENT THIS MOVEMENT OF
04:58PALESTINIAN CIVILIANS THAT YOU
05:02DESCRIBE?
05:03>> OBVIOUSLY, THERE ARE EFFORTS
05:04TO ACHIEVE A CEASE-FIRE.
05:06AS THE KING SAID IN HIS MEETING
05:09WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN, WHAT IS
05:11NEEDED IS A LASTING CEASE-FIRE.
05:14WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF A
05:18TEMPORARY CEASE-FIRE AFTER WHICH
05:19ISRAEL IS GOING TO BOMB GAZA
05:22AGAIN?
05:23WE NEED ONE LASTING CEASE-FIRE.
05:25AND THEN WE NEED A POLITICAL
05:27HORIZON.
05:28THIS CANNOT KEEP GOING ON EVERY
05:29FEW YEARS.
05:30THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED
05:32OCCUPATION.
05:34ISRAEL HAS BEEN OCCUPYING THE
05:40GAZA STRIP AND THE WEST BANK.
05:41WHAT IS NEEDED IS A CREDIBLE
05:43PLAN TO END THE OCCUPATION.
05:45NOT JUST A CEASE-FIRE IN WHICH
05:48HOSTAGES ARE RELEASED, AS THEY
05:50SHOULD BE, BUT THEN GAZA GETS
05:52BOMBED AGAIN BY THE ISRAELIS.
05:53IT IS VERY CLEAR THAT WHAT
05:56ISRAEL IS DOING GOES FAR BEYOND
06:00TRYING TO ERADICATE HAMAS
06:05MILITARY CAPABILITY.
06:05THEY ARE TRYING TOTRANSFER,
06:08WHICH IS WHY JORDAN IS WORRIED.
06:12IT DOES NOT WANT THE PALESTINIAN
06:15MAJORITY, BECAUSE THE
06:17PALESTINIANS ARE A MAJORITY IN
06:20AREAS UNDER ISRAEL'S CONTROL.
06:22THE ONLY ALTERNATIVE IS TO
06:24AFFECT A MASS TRANSFER FROM --
06:27OF PALESTINIANS FROM GAZA TO
06:28EGYPT AND THEN LATER MAYBE FROM
06:30THE WEST BANK TO JORDAN.
06:32THIS IS WHAT THE KING IS
06:35GUARDING AGAINST.
06:36>> AS YOU KNOW -- WE HAVE TALKED
06:38ABOUT THIS BEFORE, BECAUSE THAT
06:40WAS THE FEELING AT THE BEGINNING
06:42OF THE ISRAELI COUNTEROFFENSIVE.
06:44THE U.S. AND ALL THE EUROPEAN
06:46ALLIES HAVE SAID THAT IS A
06:48NON-STARTER.
06:48THEY CANNOT FORCIBLY TRANSFER.
06:53NETANYAHU SAYS THAT'S NOT HIS
06:54AIM.
06:54AS YOU RIGHTLY SAY, MANY OF HIS
06:56FAR RIGHT COALITION PARTNERS
06:57HAVE SAID DIFFERENT THINGS.
07:00EGYPT AND JORDAN STOOD UP VERY,
07:03VERY FORCEFULLY AT THE BEGINNING
07:04OF THE WAR SAYING THEY WOULD NOT
07:06ACCEPT PALESTINIANS BEING FORCED
07:08OUT OF EITHER SIDE.
07:09DO YOU THINK YOU CAN STILL HOLD
07:13THE LINE, OR -- AT SOME POINT,
07:16DOES A BORDER BREAK?
07:17I DON'T KNOW.
07:18HOW DO YOU SEE IT TRANSPIRING?
07:22>> WELL, THAT'S THE WORRY.
07:25OF COURSE, THERE MIGHT VERY WELL
07:27BE A BORDER BREAK.
07:29THE OPTIONS THAT ARE AVAILABLE
07:30TO JORDAN AND EGYPT ARE EITHER
07:34TO LET PALESTINIANS IN AND
07:38THEREBY EMPTY PALESTINIAN LAND
07:39OF THEIR INHABITANTS -- AND
07:42REMEMBER, EVERY PALESTINIAN THAT
07:43LEFT IN 1948 WAS NOT ALLOWED TO
07:46RETURN BY ISRAEL.
07:47DESPITE THE PRESENCE OF U.N.
07:49RESOLUTIONS TO THE CONTRARY.
07:52YOU LET THEM IN AND EMPTY
07:55PALESTINIAN LAND OF ITS
07:58INHABITANTS, OR YOU DON'T LET
07:59THEM IN AND YOU ARE FACED WITH A
08:01HUGE HUMANITARIAN PROBLEM.
08:03THAT'S THE KIND OF SCENARIO
08:09EGYPT AND JORDAN WANT TO GUARD
08:11AGAIN.
08:11THE TWO COUNTRIES HAVE
08:13SUCCESSFULLY, AT LEAST, BROUGHT
08:14ATTENTION TO THE ISSUE OF MASS
08:17TRANSFER TO THE INTERNATIONAL
08:19COMMUNITY.
08:20TODAY, THE INTERNATIONAL
08:21COMMUNITY IS STANDING FIRM
08:23AGAINST MASS TRANSFER IN A WAY
08:25THAT IT DID NOT BEFORE.
08:27THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT
08:30NETANYAHU IS NOT GOING TO TRY TO
08:32AFFECT THAT.
08:33IT'S CLEAR TODAY THAT WHILE THE
08:34UNITED STATES IS PUSHING
08:37NETANYAHU NOT TO GO INTO RAFAH
08:39WITHOUT A CREDIBLE PLAN AS
08:42PRESIDENT BIDEN SAID, THAT
08:44NETANYAHU HAS NO INTENTION OF
08:48HEEDING THAT ADVICE OF THE
08:52AMERICANS.
08:55H WANTS TO STAY IN POWER AND
09:01IS
09:01KILLING MASS PEOPLE.
09:02THEY ARE LOOKING INTO WHETHER
09:04IT'S GENOCIDE OR NOT.
09:06THIS IS WHAT WE ARE FACED WITH.
09:08>> SO, OBVIOUSLY, WE HAVE THE
09:131,200 PEOPLE SLAUGHTERED IN
09:15ISRAEL.
09:17MORE THAN 200 PEOPLE HELD
09:18HOSTAGE.
09:19NOW SOME 100, PERHAPS MORE, ARE
09:21TRYING -- FAMILIES ARE TRYING TO
09:23GET THEIR LOVED ONES BACK.
09:25I'M PUTTING THIS DOWN HERE
09:26BECAUSE I WANT TO ASK YOU AS
09:27SOMEBODY WHO HAS HAD MANY, MANY
09:29HOURS, DAYS, MONTHS, YEARS OF
09:31NEGOTIATIONS AND FACE-TO-FACE
09:33WITH ISRAELIS -- YOU WERE THE
09:36FIRST JORDANIAN AMBASSADOR TO
09:38ISRAEL AFTER YOUR COUNTRY SIGNED
09:40A PEACE TREATY IN '94.
09:42DO YOU THINK THAT THE CURRENT
09:45POLITICAL LANDSCAPE IN ISRAEL
09:49AND THE PEOPLE HAVE ANY, YOU
09:53KNOW, SORT OF WILLINGNESS TO
09:54ACCEPT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING AND
09:55WHAT PRESIDENT BIDEN IS SAYING?
09:57IN OTHER WORDS, THE DAY AFTER,
09:59THE TWO-STATE SOLUTION AND
10:00THINGS LIKE THAT AND WHAT YOUR
10:01KING IS SAYING, TOO?
10:05>> FIRST, I WANT TO SAY THAT THE
10:09KILLING OF CIVILIANS SHOULD NOT
10:11BE CONDONED BY ANYONE.
10:12WHETHER THEY ARE ISRAELIS OR
10:13PALESTINIANS.
10:16YES, THE ISRAELI PUBLIC OPINION
10:18TODAY IS VERY MUCH AGAINST A
10:21TWO-STATE SOLUTION.
10:22FRANKLY, THE PALESTINIANS PUBLIC
10:24OPINION IS ALSO AGAINST A
10:26TWO-STATE SOLUTION.
10:28BOTH SIDES DON'T SEE OR DON'T
10:30BELIEVE THERE'S A PARTNER ON THE
10:30OTHER SIDE.
10:32WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY THOUGH IS
10:35THAT WHEN PRESIDENT BIDEN OR
10:37ANYBODY IN THE INTERNATIONAL
10:39COMMUNITY STARTS TALKING AGAIN
10:40ABOUT A TWO-STATE SOLUTION, THEY
10:43BETTER ACCOMPANY IT WITH A
10:45CREDIBLE PLAN TO MAKE IT HAPPEN.
10:48OTHERWISE, IT'S JUST AN EMPTY
10:50SLOGAN THAT MEANS NOTHING WHILE
10:52ISRAEL BUILDS MORE SETTLEMENTS
10:55AND KILLS THAT TWO-STATE
10:56SOLUTION THAT THE INTERNATIONAL
10:58COMMUNITY IS TALKING ABOUT.
11:01I'M AFRAID THAT THE MORE
11:03REALISTIC SCENARIO IS NO PEACE
11:07PROCESS AFTER THE WAR ON GAZA.
11:09AND WE ARE GOING TO BE LEFT IN A
11:12SITUATION WHERE THE PALESTINIANS
11:13ARE A MAJORITY AND INCREASING
11:17MAJORITY AND IS UNDER ISRAEL'S
11:18CONTROL WHERE A TWO-STATE
11:20SOLUTION DOES NOT MATERIALIZE
11:22AND WHERE THE PALESTINIANS ARE
11:24GOING TO START ASKING FOR EQUAL
11:28RIGHTS.
11:32THE WHOLE NATURE OF THE CONFLICT
11:33IS GOING TO CHANGE FROM ONE THAT
11:38FOCUSES ON THE RESOLUTION TO ONE
11:39THAT FOCUSES ON RIGHTS.
11:42OTHERWISE, WE ARE FACED WITH A
11:45SYSTEM THAT THE INTERNATIONAL
11:46COMMUNITY WILL NOT ACCEPT
11:49INDEFINITELY.
11:49>> YOU ADDRESSED THE SECURITY
11:52COUNCIL AT THE END OF LAST YEAR.
11:54YOU HAVE WRITTEN AN ARTICLE
11:55ABOUT THE DAY AFTER.
11:59I KNOW THAT YOU ARE LAYING SOME
12:00OF IT OUT RIGHT NOW.
12:00BEFORE I GET TO MORE DETAIL, I
12:02WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU MAKE OF
12:03THE TWO DEVELOPMENTS.
12:05ONE IS PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS
12:06SIGNED A MEMORANDUM LINKING ANY
12:10FURTHER AMERICAN AID, MILITARY
12:12AID, TO ANY COUNTRIES.
12:13HE IS NOT JUST SAYING ISRAEL.
12:16IT WOULD INCLUDE ISRAEL.
12:19TO ADHERENCE TO THE RULES OF THE
12:21INTERNATIONAL GAME.
12:23THAT MEANS THAT APPARENTLY
12:27ACCORDING TO "THE TIMES" OF
12:29ISRAEL, ANY COUNTRY HAS 45 DAYS
12:31NOW TO SIGN AND WRITE PLEDGES TO
12:35THAT.
12:35IT'S NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE IN
12:37THE UNITED STATES.
12:38DO YOU THINK THAT WILL MAKE A
12:42DIFFERENCE?
12:43>> I'M NOT SURE.
12:45IN FACT, WE HAVE THE -- IN THE
12:55SENATE THEY DID HAVE A LAW THAT
13:00PROHIBITS PEOPLE IMPORTING U.S.
13:05MILITARY EQUIPMENT FROM ABUSING
13:06OR USING IT TO ABUSE HUMAN
13:08RIGHTS.
13:08ISRAEL HAS NOT ABIDED BY THAT.
13:11I DO NOT SEE THAT ISRAEL IS
13:15GOING TO ABIDE BY THAT TODAY.
13:18I HOPE THEY DO.
13:21BUT PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS HIMSELF
13:23SAID THAT WHAT ISRAEL IS DOING
13:25IN GAZA IS OVER THE TOP.
13:27WELL, IT IS GOING TO STILL BE
13:29OVER THE TOP IF THE UNITED
13:31STATES KEEPS SENDING ARMS TO
13:35ISRAEL IN WHAT HAS BECOME
13:37CLEARLY MASS KILLING.
13:40ISRAEL HAS SAID THAT IT IS
13:41DEFENDING ITSELF.
13:44BUT THERE IS NO INTERNATIONAL
13:46LAW THAT DEFENDS COLLECTIVE
13:49KILLING OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS.
13:51NONE.
13:51I DON'T THINK THAT THERE SHOULD
13:54BE ANY BASIC -- THERE'S NO BASIC
13:59HUMANITY IN ALLOWING THE
14:02KILLINGS OF PEOPLE IN SUCH A
14:03MANNER.
14:03WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE
14:06POSSIBILITY TODAY OF MILLIONS
14:07MORE REFUGEES, PALESTINIAN
14:11REFUGEES THAN WAS THE CASE
14:12BEFORE.
14:13THERE MUST BE ANOTHER SOLUTION.
14:14>> I KNOW THAT YOU SPEAK TO IT
14:16FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE.
14:18CLEARLY, CLEARLY, THE WORLD HAS
14:20BECOME ENRAGED BY THE MASS DEATH
14:23TOLL IN GAZA.
14:25ACCORDING TO THE AUTHORITIES
14:27AROUND 28,000 INCLUDING
14:30THOUSANDS OF CHILDREN.
14:30BUT I ALSO WANT TO ASK YOU THIS.
14:33YOU HAVE KNOWN HAMAS LEADERS.
14:36I ASSUME THAT YOU HAVE MET SOME
14:37OF THEM OR YOU KNOW OF THEM OR
14:38YOU HAVE BEEN NEGOTIATING AROUND
14:39THEM.
14:43WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THEM AT
14:45THIS POINT RIGHT NOW?
14:46THE PLACE IS LEVELLED, JUST
14:48ABOUT.
14:50ISRAEL SAYS IT TRIES TO TAKE
14:51CARE WITH CIVILIANS.
14:53BUT THERE'S ALMOST, ACCORDING TO
14:55AID ORGANIZATIONS AND OTHERS, NO
14:59GAZA LEFT IN TERMS OF A HUGE
15:00PERCENTAGE OF BUILDINGS.
15:04WHO KNOWS WHAT THE LEADERS ARE
15:06ACTUALLY -- WHAT DO THEY WANT?
15:08WHO DO THEY THINK THEY'RE GOING
15:09TO GET OUT OF THIS?
15:13DO YOU KNOW?
15:15WHAT ARE THEY DOING RIGHT NOW?
15:19>> THERE ARE EXTREMIST LEADERS
15:22ON BOTH FRONTS.
15:25WE HAVE SEEN AND TALKED ABOUT
15:26THE HAMAS LEADERS THAT HAVE
15:29HARDLINE POSITIONS ON THE PEACE
15:31PROCESS.
15:31WE HAVE NOT TALKED ENOUGH ABOUT
15:38PEOPLE WHO ARE MEMBERS OF THE
15:40ISRAELI CABINET OPENLY AND
15:42PUBLICALLY CALLING FOR THE
15:45EXPULSION OF ALL PALESTINIANS
15:46FROM THEIR LAND.
15:48THAT, TO ME, IS AN EQUAL
15:51RADICAL, IF NOT MORE RADICAL
15:54POSITION THAN THE POSITION OF
15:55HAMAS.
15:56WHAT WE NEED IS TO OFFER
15:58PALESTINIANS A POLITICAL HORIZON
16:02SO THAT THEY, YOU KNOW, HAVE
16:04HOPE THAT THEY CAN LIVE IN PEACE
16:04AND SECURITY.
16:07IN THE END, HAMAS, WHICH IS
16:10DEEMED A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION,
16:12BUT BY MANY COUNTRIES IN THE
16:14WORLD, LET'S REMEMBER THAT THE
16:17IRA IN IRELAND WAS DEEMED A
16:21TERRORIST ORGANIZATION BY
16:22MEMBERS OF THE INTERNATIONAL
16:23COMMUNITY.
16:24IN THE END, WHEN THERE'S A
16:27POLITICAL PROCESS, THESE FORCES
16:29BECOME POLITICAL FORCES RATHER
16:30THAN MILITARY ONES.
16:31THIS IS THE NATURAL EVOLUTION OF
16:33THINGS.
16:34BUT WITHOUT A POLITICAL HORIZON,
16:35WE ARE NOT GOING TO ACHIEVE IT.
16:37>> LET'S SAY THERE'S A POLITICAL
16:39HORIZON ALONG THE LINES OF WHAT
16:41YOU LAID OUT AND WHAT BASICALLY
16:43THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY IS
16:44LAYING OUT, IF IT'S POSSIBLE, TO
16:46HAVE A TWO-STATE SOLUTION.
16:47YOU HAVE SAID -- YOU ARE CORRECT
16:49IN WHAT YOU HAVE SAID.
16:51WE HAVE BEEN REPORTING IT --
16:53THAT THOSE FAR RIGHT
16:55NATIONALISTS IN THE GOVERNMENT
16:58IN ISRAEL HAVE MADE THOSE
16:59STATEMENTS.
17:00THEY HAVE SAID THAT ABOUT
17:03EXCLUDING PALESTINIANS, ET
17:04CETERA.
17:05HAMAS HAS SAID THE SAME THING.
17:06I GUESS I'M TRYING TO GET AT
17:09ABOUT ISRAELIS.
17:11SO WHERE DOES IT -- WHERE IS
17:14THERE ANY HOPE IF PEOPLE ARE
17:15LOOKING FOR THE DAY AFTER FOR
17:17SOME KIND OF SOLUTION THAT IS
17:19ONE THAT IS JUST, FAIR AND
17:21SECURE FOR EVERYBODY?
17:25>> IF THERE'S A CREDIBLE
17:28POLITICAL HORIZON LED BY THE
17:30INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY, YOU CAN
17:32CHANGE PEOPLE'S MINDSETS IN BOTH
17:36CAMPS.
17:36BUT TODAY, A MAJORITY OF
17:38PALESTINIANS AND A MAJORITY OF
17:40ISRAELIS DO NOT WANT A TWO-STATE
17:42SOLUTION BECAUSE THEY DO NOT
17:44BELIEVE THERE'S A PARTNER ON THE
17:45OTHER SIDE.
17:47IF THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY
17:50DOES NOT CREDIBLY LAUNCH A
17:52POLITICAL PROCESS THAT ENDS THE
17:54OCCUPATION AND ESTABLISHING
17:57STATES, THEN I'M AFRAID THE
17:59ALTERNATIVE IS MORE VIOLENCE ON
18:01BOTH SIDES FOR A SUSTAINED
18:01PERIOD OF TIME.
18:03THIS IS WHAT WE ARE LOOKING AT.
18:06PEACEMAKING MIGHT BE DIFFICULT,
18:08MIGHT BE VERY DIFFICULT.
18:10BUT STICKING TO THE STATUS QUO
18:12IS GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW, EVEN
18:13MORE DIFFICULT.
18:18>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING
18:22US TONIGHT.
18:23>>> NEXT, HOW ART CAN SUSTAIN
18:25LIFE AND HOPE EVEN IN THE MOST
18:27DESPERATE CIRCUMSTANCES, EVEN IN
18:28THE MOST WAR-TORN NATIONS.
18:31THE SIEGE OF SARAJEVO DURING THE
18:33WAR OF THE '90s WAS THE LONGEST
18:36IN MODERN WARFARE, LASTING FOUR
18:38YEARS BEFORE COMING TO AN END 28
18:40YEARS AGO THIS MONTH.
18:42DESPITE THE SHELLING AND
18:44SNIPERS, THERE WAS AN
18:45UNDERGROUND MUSIC SCENE.
18:47FOR MANY, THEIR ONLY ESCAPE FROM
18:48THE HORRORS OF THAT WAR.
18:52THE SUPERSTAR ROCK BAND U2 SENT
18:55MESSAGES OF SUPPORT TO THE
18:56PEOPLE OF SARAJEVO AND VOWED TO
18:58PERFORM THERE ONCE THE WAR WAS
18:59OVER.
19:01THAT IS THE EXTRAORDINARY STORY
19:03AT THE HEART OF A NEW
19:05DOCUMENTARY "KISS THE FUTURE."
19:06HERE IS A LITTLE BIT OF THE
19:07TRAILER.
19:09>> THE HEART OF CULTURE.
19:10A BRIGHT, SHINING LIGHT.
19:12THEY NEEDED TO KILL THAT LIGHT.
19:16>> DURING THE WAR, WE WOULD PLAY
19:20MUSIC.
19:20THAT'S WHAT KEPT US SANE.
19:21>> ART CAN INSPIRE PEOPLE TO
19:24WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
19:25YOU DO WHAT YOU LOVE THE MOST.
19:27>> COURAGE IS GRACE UNDER
19:30PRESSURE.
19:30>> THAT'S A GOOD DEFINITION OF
19:31THE PEOPLE OF SARAJEVO.
19:34>> KISS THE FUTURE.
19:38>> FOR ANYBODY WHO CAUGHT IT, IT
19:39WAS MY VOICE IN THE TRAILER.
19:41I WAS INTERVIEWED BY THE FILM
19:42ABOUT MY REPORTING DURING THAT
19:44TIME.
19:44JOINING ME NOW IS ONE OF THE
19:46FILM'S PRODUCERS WHO HAPPENS TO
19:48BE THE OSCAR WINNING
19:49SCREENWRITER AND FILM STAR MATT
19:52DAMON.
19:52WELCOME TO OUR PROGRAM.
19:55>> THANK YOU.
19:56THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
19:57>> WHAT DREW YOU TO THIS
19:59PROJECT?
19:59HOW DID YOU EVEN COME TO KNOW
20:02ABOUT IT?
20:03>> ACTUALLY, THE STORY WAS TOLD
20:05TO ME.
20:06I THOUGHT IT WAS SO INCREDIBLE.
20:10THAT COINCIDED WITH KNOWING A
20:14CERTAIN DIRECTOR WHO WOUND UP
20:15DIRECTING THIS FILM.
20:16TO LISTEN TO HIM TALK ABOUT IT
20:18AND HIS PASSION, HE IS FROM
20:19THERE, HE HAS A VERY PERSONAL
20:21CONNECTION TO THIS WHOLE STORY.
20:23WE KNEW WE HAD THE RIGHT
20:25STORYTELLER AND THE RIGHT PEOPLE
20:27IN PLACE.
20:27SO THEN WE WENT TO THE BAND.
20:29THEY HAD ALL THIS FOOTAGE FROM
20:32THAT TIME THAT THEY JUST GAVE
20:35US.
20:35YOU KNOW, REALLY, THEIR ONE
20:37CONCERN WAS THEY DIDN'T WANT TO
20:38MAKE A FILM ABOUT THEM.
20:40IF WE WERE GOING TO DO IT, TO
20:41MAKE IT ABOUT THE PEOPLE OF
20:43SARAJEVO.
20:44IT'S JUST THE MOST UPLIFTING
20:46STORY.
20:46IT'S REALLY ABOUT LIGHT WINNING
20:49OVER DARKNESS.
20:49THANK YOU FOR PARTICIPATING.
20:54OBVIOUSLY, HUGE TO HAVE YOU
20:55THERE.
20:55YOU ARE ABLE TO PUT THIS STORY
20:57IN CONTEXT FOR VIEWERS TODAY WHO
20:58MAY NOT BE AS FAMILIAR WITH WHAT
21:01HAPPENED BACK IN SARAJEVO.
21:04>> I DID MEET BONO BEFORE HE
21:07WENT BACK TO PERFORM.
21:09HE DID THAT AFTER THE WAR.
21:13IT WAS THE POST WAR.
21:1545,000 FANS TURNED OUT TO SEE
21:17HIM.
21:18UNTHINKABLE DURING THE WAR.
21:19IT WAS QUITE SOMETHING FOR THOSE
21:20WHO WERE ABLE TO SEE IT.
21:22I WANT TO PULL OUT A LITTLE
21:24BIT -- A CLIP.
21:25IT IS TALKING ABOUT -- BONO IS
21:29TALKING WITH ONE OF THE LOCAL
21:31MUSICIANS WHO FEATURES IN THE
21:33DOCUMENTARY.
21:35>> U2 DURING THE WAR, THEY HAD
21:39SOMETHING TO SAY.
21:40THAT WAS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR
21:41US.
21:42>> ALL OF US USED MUSIC TO
21:45PROTECT OURSELVES.
21:48A KIND OF SHIELD AGAINST ALL THE
21:49DARK FORCES INSIDESARAJEVO,
21:54THERE WAS WAR.
22:00THEY WERE IN THE MIDDLE OF IT.
22:02THEY WERE USING MUSIC AS A
22:03SHIELD AGAINST ACTUAL DARK
22:06FORCES.
22:06>> IT WAS AMAZING WHEN I SAW THE
22:07WHOLE DOCUMENTARY.
22:10EVEN THOUGH WE WERE THERE AS
22:12REPORTERS, WE DIDN'T ACTUALLY
22:15KNOW THAT THERE WAS THIS
22:16UNDERGROUND LOCAL MUSIC SCENE
22:19THRIVING, EVEN UNDER CURFEW AND
22:20ALL THE REST OF IT.
22:21IT WAS REALLY AMAZING TO SEE IT.
22:24DIRECTORS CAME.
22:32HAIR, SUSAN SONTAG CAME AND PUT
22:34ON A PLAY.
22:40WHAT DO YOU THINK AS AN ARTIST
22:42ACTUALLY ABOUT THE POWER OF ART
22:45IN THE WORST KINDS OF
22:48SITUATIONS?
22:49>> YEAH.
22:49THAT TO ME IS THE MOST BEAUTIFUL
22:51PART OF THE MOVIE.
22:51IT'S REALLY ABOUT OUR HUMANITY.
22:55IN THE DARKEST TIMES, THERE'S
22:59SOMETHING ABOUT EXPRESSING
23:01OURSELVES AND DOING IT TOGETHER.
23:02THESE PEOPLE WERE GOING TO THESE
23:05UNDERGROUND MUSIC CLUBS AT NIGHT
23:07TO EITHER LISTEN TO MUSIC OR TO
23:09PLAY MUSIC.
23:10WE HAVE -- THERE'S A PHOTOGRAPH
23:11IN THE FILM THAT WE HAVE OF ONE
23:15OF THESE PUNK ROCK DRUMMERS GOT
23:16HIS HAND BLOWN OFF ON THE FRONT.
23:18THERE'S A PICTURE OF HIM WITH A
23:21DRUMSTICK TAPED TO WHERE HIS
23:23HAND USED TO BE.
23:25MUSIC IS AN ACT OF RESISTANCE
23:27AND DEFIANCE.
23:28ART IS AN ACT OF DEFIANCE.
23:29YOU CAN PUT US IN THE MOST
23:32HORRIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES, BUT YOU
23:33CAN'T TAKE AWAY OUR CELEBRATION
23:35OF OUR HUMANITY.
23:37WE ARE WILLING TO DIE FOR THAT.
23:41THAT JUST -- IT'S A VERY
23:43BEAUTIFUL MESSAGE.
23:44SOMETHING TO PUT OUT INTO THE
23:45WORLD TODAY.
23:48THAT WAS WHY WE WANTED TO JUST
23:49HELP SEE IT GET MADE.
23:51I THOUGHT IT WAS SUCH A
23:52BEAUTIFUL STORY.
23:52>> IT IS.
23:54THE MUSICIAN YOU ARE TALKING
23:57ABOUT, HIS NAME IS SURGEON.
24:02IT IS REMARKABLE TO SEE THAT
24:04LEVEL OF RESISTANCE.
24:05>> THE AUDIENCE WAS LITERALLY
24:08RISKING THEIR LIFE RUNNING FROM
24:10THE DIFFERENT BRIDGES TO THE
24:13THEATER.
24:13OUR SOUND GUY DIED BEFORE ONE OF
24:14THE PERFORMANCES.
24:18>> ONE DAY, MY BASS PLAYER SAID
24:22OUR DRUMMER LOST HIS HAND ON THE
24:24FRONT LINE.
24:27HE LOST HIS RIGHT [ BLEEP ]
24:27HAND.
24:30>> IT WAS A DRUMMER.
24:33I MEAN, JUST TO WATCH THAT.
24:36I REMEMBER THOSE SCENES OF
24:38PEOPLE RUNNING FROM BRIDGE TO
24:40BRIDGE, FROM ROAD TO ROAD, FROM
24:41SHELTER TO SHELTER TRYING NOT TO
24:44GET SNIPED OR KILLED.
24:49EMOTIONALLY FOR YOU, HOW DOES IT
24:50MAKE YOU FEEL WHEN YOU SEE THAT?
24:51YOU CAN SEE THE SAME STUFF
24:53HAPPENING IN UKRAINE RIGHT NOW.
24:54THERE'S A THRIVING UNDERGROUND
24:57ART COMMUNITY.
25:00>> YEAH.
25:01I THINK THAT'S BUILT OUT OF
25:03NECESSITY.
25:05WE HAVE TO HAVE THESE THINGS.
25:06WE HAVE TO CONTINUE TO BE HUMAN
25:07BEINGS AND BE TOGETHER AND
25:09EXPERIENCE THE BEST PARTS OF
25:09LIFE TOGETHER.
25:12OR ELSE IT'S JUST -- WE'RE ON
25:14THE ROAD TO MADNESS.
25:16OBVIOUSLY, THERE ARE FORCES THAT
25:21ARE -- TODAY WITH SOCIAL MEDIA,
25:24OBVIOUSLY, IT'S EASIER TO
25:32PROMOTE IT.
25:32IT'S A CELEBRATION OF WHAT THESE
25:35PEOPLE DID IN THE DARKEST -- IN
25:38THEIR DARKEST HOUR.
25:39THAT PART OF IT IS JUST
25:40INCREDIBLY BEAUTIFUL.
25:44IT STANDS TO REASON THAT YOU
25:44WOULD SEE THAT IN UKRAINE, YOU
25:46WOULD SEE THAT IN THESE PLACES
25:48THAT ARE DEALING WITH THESE
25:49TYPES OF HORRORS THAT THEY
25:54IMMEDIATE TO HOLD ON TO THEIR
25:56HUMANITY AND COMMUNITY.
25:57>> DOES IT STRIKE YOU -- BONO IS
26:00FAMOUSLY POLITICAL IN AID OF
26:02HUMANITY, ESSENTIALLY.
26:03HE IS A POLITICAL GUY.
26:05HE MAKES MANY MESSAGES IN MANY
26:09OF HIS GLOBAL PERFORMANCES.
26:11OF COURSE, FROM THE VIETNAM WAR
26:15FOR DECADES MANY AMERICANS WERE
26:17OVERTLY POLITICAL AND OTHERS.
26:23DO YOU THINK THAT'S STILL HAPPEN
26:25HAPPENING?
26:26DO YOU SEE ACTING AND ACTORS NOT
26:29BEING AS POLITICAL IN DEFENSE OF
26:33HUMANITY?
26:34>> I DON'T KNOW.
26:35I DON'T KNOW IF I COULD MAKE A
26:36GRAND STATEMENT ABOUT THE STATE
26:38OF THINGS.
26:39IT CERTAINLY FELT LIKE I WAS
26:40RAISED DURING A TIME WHERE THE
26:43CITIZENRY WAS A LOT MORE
26:44ENGAGED.
26:45I GREW UP DURING THE VIETNAM
26:46WAR.
26:46THAT WAS A VERY FRACTIOUS TIME
26:53IN AMERICA AND DEEPLY FELT ON
26:54ALL SIDES.
26:55THE COUNTRY WAS IN TURMOIL.
26:57I DON'T KNOW IF WE HAVE BEEN
27:02ANESTHETIZED SINCE THEN.
27:03WITH ALL OF THE CHANGES IN
27:04TECHNOLOGY AND THE HUMAN
27:06EXPERIENCE, WE ARE OVERRIDDEN
27:08WITH SOME OF THE INPUT AND WE
27:09CAN'T KEEP UP WITH EVERYTHING.
27:10I'M NOT SURE.
27:12I DO FEEL LIKE CERTAINLY A BAND
27:15LIKE U2, THEY HAVE ALWAYS --
27:18THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN -- I
27:20REMEMBER TALKING TO EDGE ABOUT
27:21THE FACT THAT HE ALMOST DIDN'T
27:23JOIN THE BAND BECAUSE HE WASN'T
27:24SURE IF IT WAS ENOUGH TO DO WITH
27:25HIS LIFE.
27:26HE WANTED HIS LIFE TO HAVE
27:27GREATER MEANING IN SERVICE OF
27:30OTHERS.
27:31SO CERTAINLY THAT -- IT WOULD
27:33HAVE BEEN ENOUGH TO HAVE THE
27:35INCREDIBLE MUSIC, BUT THEY HAVE
27:37ALWAYS TRIED TO DO MORE.
27:38I THINK THAT JUST SPEAKS TO THE
27:39KIND OF PEOPLE THEY ARE.
27:43>> THIS DOCUMENTARY ENDS WITH A
27:46MONTAGE OF NEWS REPORTS FROM ALL
27:49OVER.
27:49YOU HAVE SAID THE POWERFUL
27:50MESSAGE OF PEACE IS AS RELEVANT
27:52AND AS IMPORTANT TODAY AS IT WAS
27:55IN SEPTEMBER 1997 WHEN BILL
27:58CARTER -- THE AMERICAN AIDE
27:59WORKER WHO BROUGHT THIS STORY TO
28:01BONO AND THE SARAJEVO COMMUNITY
28:05BROUGHT U2 TO POST-WAR SARAJEVO.
28:09WHAT ARE YOU DOING -- THIS
28:11INTERVIEW IS PART OF IT -- TO
28:13MAKE SURE PEOPLE WATCH THESE
28:14DOCUMENTS?
28:16YOU ARE A PRODUCER AS WELL.
28:18YOU HAVE DONE ALL SORTS OF
28:19DIFFERENT THINGS.
28:22WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE SELLING
28:23POWER OF THIS ONE?
28:24HOW IMPORTANT IS IT THAT IT DOES
28:26SELL?
28:27>> GREAT QUESTION.
28:30LOOK, YOU NEVER KNOW AS A
28:32PRODUCER AND ACTOR OR WRITER
28:33WHEN YOU PUT SOMETHING OUT.
28:35IT'S TOUGH TO HANDICAP WHETHER
28:36PEOPLE WILL GO OR NOT.
28:39THIS JUST WAS A HUGE EFFORT BY A
28:41LOT OF PEOPLE.
28:42IT'S GOING TO GO INTO AMC
28:44THEATERS FEBRUARY 23rd ALL
28:45ACROSS AMERICA.
28:47I SPOKE TO THE HEAD OF AMC
28:49THEATERS WHO JUST WATCHED THE
28:50MOVIE AND JUST LOVED IT.
28:52HE IS LIKE, I'M PUTTING IT IN.
28:54A LOT OF TIMES YOU GET THESE --
29:01IT'S BEEN SOLD TO PARAMOUNT+.
29:05IT SPEAKS TO A BIGGER GROUP
29:07EFFORT WHEN PEOPLE SEE SOMETHING
29:09THEY FEEL IS WORTHY OF YOUR
29:12ATTENTION.
29:15I DON'T KNOW -- I'M NOT
29:17REALLY -- I HAVEN'T MADE A LOT
29:19OF DOCUMENTARIES IN MY LIFE.
29:20THIS ISN'T MY CORE BUSINESS.
29:21THIS IS JUST A STORY I THOUGHT
29:23WAS SO WONDERFUL I WANTED TO
29:24HELP GET IT TOLD.
29:25>> I'M GOING TO GET TO SOME OF
29:27YOUR FILMS IN A MOMENT.
29:29I WANT TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING
29:30WE FIRST TALKED ABOUT WHETHER WE
29:31FIRST MET.
29:32THAT'S YOUR CHARITY WORK.
29:34IN PARTICULAR, THE WATER
29:35CHARITY, WHICH IS ALWAYS SO
29:38IMPORTANT.
29:39I WONDER HOW IT'S GOING.
29:40ARE YOU STILL DOING IT?
29:42WHAT ARE THE MAIN NATIONS?
29:44YOU SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING IN
29:45GAZA.
29:46YOU JUST HEARD SOME OF WHAT OUR
29:47FIRST GUEST WAS TALKING ABOUT IN
29:50TERMS OF THE HUMANITARIAN NEEDS.
29:53CRISIS, THE FOOD CRISIS.
29:57WHAT ARE YOU DOING?
29:59ARE YOU OPERATING IN GAZA?
30:02WOULD YOU?
30:04>> WE TEND TO -- WE ARE ALL OVER
30:07THE WORLD.
30:07WE DON'T USUALLY -- OUR
30:10EXPERTISE ARE NOT IN AREAS
30:12DEALING WITH A HOT CONFLICT.
30:15THAT'S NOT -- WHAT WE TRY TO DO
30:18IS THROUGH A SYSTEM OF
30:20MICROLOANING, WE HAVE EMPOWERED
30:21OVER 60 MILLION PEOPLE TO GET
30:23ACCESS TO SAFE WATER AND
30:24SANITATION.
30:27I KNOW YOU HAVE BEEN GREAT FOR
30:28US THE ENTIRE TIME AT WATER.ORG.
30:34YOU WERE THERE WHEN WE
30:35CELEBRATED OUR FIRST MILLION IN
30:382012.
30:39OUR WORK HAS BEEN ABLE TO SCALE.
30:41IN THE LAST 13 YEARS, WE ARE NOW
30:42OVER 60 MILLION PEOPLE.
30:44WE ARE VERY PROUD OF THAT.
30:46OBVIOUSLY, THERE ARE 771 MILLION
30:47PEOPLE ON THE PLANET WHO LACK
30:50ACCESS.
30:50THERE'S A LONG WAY TO GO.
30:52WE ARE -- WE DO FEEL LIKE THIS
30:54BOOST OF ENERGY AND MOMENTUM AND
30:57THINGS ARE GOING AS WELL AS WE
30:58COULD HAVE HOPED.
30:59WE HAVE TO KEEP OUR FOOT ON THE
31:02GAS.
31:02>> IT WAS IMPORTANT FOR ME TO
31:04ENGAGE, BECAUSE I REPORTED ON
31:06THOSE PLACES WHICH HAVE SUCH A
31:07LACK OF BASIC NECESSITIES.
31:10ALSO, WATER.ORG, AREN'T YOU --
31:14CLIMATE RESISTANCE AND TRY TO
31:16FIGURE OUT HOW TO OFFSET THE
31:19CRISIS THERE?
31:20>> YES.
31:21WE ARE NOW MOVING INTO CLIMATE
31:24RESILIENT INFRASTRUCTURE SO YOU
31:26CAN -- A LOT OF THE TIMES IF YOU
31:28TALK TO PEOPLE AT THE WORLD
31:30BANK, THEY WILL SAY, WE CAN
31:32REACH THE TOP 85%.
31:33IT'S THE BOTTOM 15% WE STRUGGLE
31:36WITH.
31:36THAT'S REALLY WHERE WE COME IN.
31:37WE ARE LOOKING NOW AT THIS
31:39BOTTOM UP AND A BIT OF THE TOP
31:42DOWN APPROACH WHERE SOME OF
31:44THESE UTILITIES CAN MOVE INTO
31:46PLACES AND REACH MOVE PEOPLE.
31:49BUT THEY NEED TO DO IT WITH
31:50CLIMATE RESILIENT
31:52INFRASTRUCTURE.
31:52IF YOU THINK -- SOME OF THESE
31:54PLACES, 35% OF THE WATER IS
31:57LEAKING OUT INTO THE GROUND.
31:58IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE CARBON
32:00COST OF MOVING -- WATER IS SUCH
32:03A HEAVY COMMODITY.
32:04TO MOVE IT, TO TREAT IT AND TO
32:05PIPE IT TO ONLY THEN LOSE IT
32:07JUST DRIPPING OUT OF YOUR PIPE
32:08INTO THE GROUND IS AN
32:11UNBELIEVABLE WASTE OF ENERGY.
32:13YES, WE ARE LOOKING AT IT FROM A
32:16LOT OF DIFFERENT ANGLES.
32:18IT'S A VASTLY COMPLEX AND
32:20INTERESTING ISSUE.
32:20IT'S GOING TO TAKE A LOT OF
32:22COLLABORATION IN ORDER TO GET
32:26WHERE WE ARE -- TO OUR MISSION
32:28STATEMENT, WHICH IS A WORLD IN
32:29WHICH EVERYBODY HAS ACCESS IN
32:30OUR LIFETIME.
32:32>> YOU DO HAVE A DAY JOB.
32:35YOU ARE A PRETTY FAMOUS AND
32:37ACTIVE MOVIE STAR.
32:42"OPPENHEIMER" BROUGHT EVERYBODY
32:42BACK TO THE CINEMA.
32:43BLOWN OUT THE BOX OFFICE.
32:45DONE UNBELIEVABLY WELL.
32:47APPARENTLY, YOU WERE LOOKING TO
32:49TAKE SOME KIND OF TIME OUT TO BE
32:51MORE WITH YOUR FAMILY.
32:53I HEARD, I READ THAT YOU TOLD
32:54YOUR WIFE YOU WERE GOING TO TAKE
32:56A GOOD TIME-OUT UNLESS
32:59CHRISTOPHER NOLAN CALLED YOU.
33:00THEN HE DID.
33:01THEN COMES YOUR ROLE IN --
33:03>> I WAS SMART ENOUGH -- I HAD
33:06ONE CARVEOUT IN OUR DEAL.
33:10ONE CAVEAT.
33:13MOST ACTORS HAVE A SENSE OF HIS
33:16TIME LINE.
33:17EVERY THREE OR SO YEARS YOU MAY
33:18OR MAY NOT GET A CALL.
33:21SO I JUST LEFT MYSELF THAT ONE
33:24OUT.
33:24IF YOU GET A CALL FROM HIM, YOU
33:25WANT TO BE ABLE TO PICK IT UP
33:29AND GO.
33:30>> YOU PLAY LESLIE GROVES, THE
33:34GENERAL THAT OVERSAW THE PROJECT
33:35THAT OPPENHEIMER DID.
33:37WHAT WAS IT?
33:38WAS IT THE STORY OR AS YOU SAY
33:41IS IT CHRISTOPHER NOLAN THAT
33:42DREW YOU TO IT?
33:45>> WELL, I THINK ANYBODY WOULD
33:46JUST DO THE PHONE BOOK WITH
33:48CHRIS NOLAN IF HE CALLED AND
33:50ASKED.
33:51THE SCRIPT WAS REALLY
33:51SPECTACULAR.
33:54I APPRECIATED IT MORE AFTER I
33:58READ THE BOOK THAT IT'S BASED
33:59ON.
33:59IT WON THE PULITZER PRIZE.
34:03THAT ADAPTATION WAS SO
34:04INCREDIBLE.
34:08ONE OF THOSE ONCE IN A CAREER
34:10TYPE OF JOBS THAT COME ACROSS
34:12YOUR DESK.
34:12THERE'S NO WAY YOU CAN'T DO IT.
34:15I'M REALLY -- I LIKEN THAT MOVIE
34:18TO A GREAT RECORD THAT -- I GET
34:19TO SAY, I PLAYED ON THAT RECORD.
34:22I'M IN THERE SOMEWHERE.
34:25I'M REALLY -- I'M LUCKY.
34:27>> IT WAS A WONDER FILM.
34:34MY FINAL QUESTION IS GOING TO
34:35START WITH A CLIP FROM A DUNKIN'
34:36DONUT AD.
34:40>> THE DUNK KINGS.
34:42TOUCHDOWN TOMMY ON THE KEYS.
34:43>> GOT IT.
34:44>> I'M OPEN.
34:46>> SOMETIMES IT'S REALLY HARD TO
34:48BE YOUR FRIEND.
34:48>> YOU SAID YOU WERE GOING TO
34:49SUPPORT ME.
34:58>> HOW DO YOU LIKE THEM
34:59DOUGHNUTS?
35:00I'M SORRY.
35:01>> I FORGET YOU.
35:03LAY US ON THE TRACK.
35:06>> SUPER BOWL FUN.
35:08THERE'S SO MANY LAYERS THERE.
35:11YOUR CLOSE FRIENDSHIP WITH BEN
35:13AFFLECK.
35:14THERE WAS JENNIFER LOPEZ.
35:14SO MANY LAYERS THERE.
35:18YOU WORK TOGETHER ON FILMS, ON
35:20SO MANY OTHER ISSUES.
35:21YOU REMAIN SUCH GOOD FRIENDS.
35:23DO YOU EVER FALL OUT?
35:26>> NO, NO.
35:28WE HAVE BEEN FRIENDS SINCE -- I
35:32DON'T KNOW, I WAS 10 AND HE WAS
35:358.
35:37THAT'S 43 YEARS.
35:38IT'S BEYOND THAT.
35:38WE ACCEPTED -- IT'S A
35:40BROTHERHOOD AT THAT POINT.
35:44THERE CAN'T REALLY BE A BREAKUP.
35:47HE CALLED ME -- I THOUGHT THE
35:49IDEA WAS REALLY FUNNY.
35:50HE IS CLEARLY MAKING A BIGGER
35:52FOOL OF HIMSELF THAN ANYBODY IN
35:54THE COMMERCIAL.
35:56EVERYBODY FELT FINE ABOUT
35:58PUTTING THE TRACK SUITS ON.
35:59WE HAD A LOT OF FUN.
36:00>> I SAW YOU SMILING A LOT WHILE
36:01YOU WERE WATCHING THAT.
36:03THANK YOU SO MUCH.
36:06"KISS THE FUTURE" IS REALLY
36:08IMPORTANT.
36:08DESPITE THE WAR AND THE SETTING,
36:10IT'S A REALLY UPLIFTING
36:13DOCUMENTARY THAT DOES TELL THAT
36:15STORY OF HOW HUMANITY CAN
36:18ACTUALLY SURVIVE AND CAN THRIVE
36:20EVEN IN WAR WHEN THEY HAVE A
36:21SENSE OF RESISTANCE.
36:24MATT DAMON, THANK YOU SO MUCH.
36:26THE FILM "KISS THE FUTURE" WILL
36:30BE IN SELECTED U.S. THEATERS.
36:33>>> TO THE SUBURBS WHERE WHITE
36:35AMERICANS GREW UP.
36:36ONCE IT WAS THE QUINTESSENTIAL
36:38IMAGE OF AMERICAN LIFE.
36:40THESE NEIGHBORHOODS NOW REVEAL
36:43SYSTEMICDISPARITY.
36:45WITH NEW BLACK AND BROWN
36:46RESIDENTS STRUGGLING TO DEAL
36:48WITH THE DECLINING CONDITIONS
36:50LEFT BY WHITE OCCUPANTS WHO
36:52MOVED ON AND UP.
36:54IN HIS NEW BOOK, BENJAMIN HAROLD
36:58LOOKS AT FIVE SUBURBS ACROSS THE
37:01COUNTRY.
37:01HE JOINS MICHELLE MARTIN TO
37:02DISCUSS WHAT FAMILIES ARE
37:03EXPERIENCING IN THESE
37:04COMMUNITIES.
37:05>> THANKS.
37:07THANK YOU FOR TALKING WITH US.
37:09>> GLAD TO BE HERE.
37:10>> YOU ARE AN EDUCATION
37:11REPORTER.
37:13WHAT MADE YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THE
37:15SUBURBS?
37:15WHAT MADE YOU THINK OF IT?
37:17>> WE HAVE, AS AMERICANS, HAVE
37:19INVESTED SO MANY OF OUR HOPES,
37:21OUR DREAMS, OUR VISIONS OF THE
37:23FUTURE IN SUBURBIA.
37:25A LOT OF THAT REVOLVES AROUND
37:27PUBLIC SCHOOLS.
37:27THIS IDEA OF THE PLACE WHERE WE
37:29FEEL LIKE WE CAN GO NOT ONLY FOR
37:31THE GOOD LIFE FOR OURSELVES BUT
37:32TO GIVE OUR CHILDREN A BETTER
37:34FUTURE.
37:34THAT'S A REALLY POWERFUL THING.
37:36THAT IS CENTERED AROUND PUBLIC
37:38SCHOOLS.
37:38THAT WAS THE OPENING WINDOW INTO
37:40GOING INTO THE FIVE COMMUNITIES
37:42THAT I FOCUS ON IN THE BOOK.
37:43>> WHAT WAS THE QUESTION YOU
37:44WERE TRYING TO ANSWER?
37:45>> IT COMES BACK TO MY ORIGIN
37:48STORY.
37:48I HAD GROWN UP IN A SUBURB EAST
37:50OF PITTSBURGH CALLED PENN HILLS.
37:52IT WAS A PLACE THAT WORKED VERY
37:54WELL FOR MY MIDDLE CLASS WHITE
37:56FAMILY.
37:56LARGELY IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS.
37:58I GOT A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES.
37:59IT'S NOT HARD TO TRACE MY CAREER
38:02AS A JOURNALIST BACK TO MY
38:03EXPERIENCE IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS
38:04IN PENN HILLS.
38:06WHEN I WAS IN THIRD GRADE, I WAS
38:08THE KID WOULD USED TO GET BORED
38:10AND I WOULD DRAW ON MY DESK.
38:11MY TEACHER INSTEAD OF PUNISHING
38:13ME, SHE BROUGHT IN HER
38:14TYPEWRITER FROM HOME AND SAID,
38:16BEN, WHEN YOU GET BORED, WORK ON
38:18THIS.
38:18I STARTED A CLASS NEWSPAPER.
38:22THAT WAS MY FIRST JOURNALISM
38:23JOB.
38:23YOU CAN SEE HOW THINGS
38:25PROGRESSED FROM THERE.
38:25WHEN I LEFT IN 1994, I REALLY
38:28DIDN'T LOOK BACK.
38:29I THOUGHT THE REAL WORLD WAS
38:30HAPPENING SOMEWHERE ELSE.
38:32I SPENT MUCH OF MY CAREER AS AN
38:34EDUCATION JOURNALIST COVERING
38:36BIG CITIES.
38:37IN 2015 AND 2016, ALL OF THE
38:39HEADLINES STARTED COMING OUT OF
38:41PENN HILLS.
38:42THIS COMMUNITY AND SCHOOL SYSTEM
38:43THAT WORKED SO WELL FOR MY WHITE
38:45FAMILY HAD RUN UP $172 MILLION
38:48IN DEBT.
38:49THEY WERE LAYING OFF TEACHERS.
38:50THEY WERE SLASHING PROGRAMS AND
38:52SERVICES.
38:53PROPERTY TAXES WERE GOING UP.
38:55HOME VALUES WERE STAGNATING.
38:57YOU CAN SEE HOW THIS DREAM WAS
38:59ERODING ALMOST IN REAL TIME.
39:01IT WAS OVERLAID WITH THIS
39:03DEMOGRAPHIC SHIFT.
39:03THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS WERE 72%
39:05WHITE WHEN I GRADUATED.
39:07BY THE TIME THIS BAD NEWS
39:08STARTED HAPPENING, IT WAS 63%
39:12BLACK.
39:12IT MADE ME REALIZE, WAIT, ALL OF
39:16THESE OPPORTUNITIES AND BENEFITS
39:17THAT MY FAMILY AND ME PERSONALLY
39:18RECEIVED A GENERATION AGO WERE
39:20BEING PAID FOR BY THE FAMILIES
39:21WHO LIVE THERE NOW.
39:23I WAS CURIOUS IF THAT WAS
39:24SOMETHING THAT WAS HAPPENING
39:25JUST IN MY HOMETOWN OR IF IT WAS
39:27HAPPENING ELSEWHERE.
39:28WHAT I LEARNED IS THIS IS A
39:30CYCLE COMMON IN SUBURBAN AREAS
39:32ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.
39:33>> ONE OF THE PEOPLE YOU QUOTE
39:35IN THE BOOK AND PEOPLE WRITING
39:36ABOUT THE BOOK HAVE BASICALLY
39:38LIKENED THIS TO A PONZI SCHEME.
39:40IT'S A SHELL GAME.
39:43SOMEBODY HAS TO BE THE SUCKER.
39:44SOMEBODY IS GOING TO GET TAKEN.
39:46TELL ME WHY YOU SAY THAT.
39:47THEN WE WILL DIG INTO IT
39:49FURTHER.
39:49>> THAT'S RIGHT.
39:50I THINK TWO THINGS TO REMEMBER
39:52ABOUT THE WAY THAT AMERICA
39:55BECAME A SUBBAN NATION.
39:58MANY OF THE COMMUNITIES, LIKE MY
40:00HOMETOWN, GREW UP ALMOST
40:01OVERNIGHT.
40:04YOU HAD FORMER FARMLAND
40:08CONVERTED INTO RESIDENTIAL
40:10NEIGHBORHOODS.
40:11YOU SAW THIS INFRASTRUCTURE,
40:12ROADS, STREETS, SEWERS, PUBLIC
40:15SCHOOLS BEING BUILT ALMOST
40:16OVERNIGHT.
40:17A LOT OF IT HEAVILY SUBSIDIZED
40:22BY STATE, LOCAL AND FEDERAL
40:25GOVERNMENT.
40:25WHAT THAT RESULTED IN -- MANY OF
40:28THE COMMUNITIES WERE RACIALLY
40:31RESTRICTIVE.
40:31THERE WAS THIS GENEROUS SOCIAL
40:33CONTRACT.
40:33WE GET CHEAP MORTGAGE LOANS,
40:35MASSIVE TAX BREAKS, NEW
40:37INFRASTRUCTURE, PUBLIC SCHOOLS
40:37WE CAN MAKE IN OUR OWN IMAGE.
40:39ALL OF THESE BENEFITS THAT COME
40:42AND ARE MADE POSSIBLE BOTH
40:43BECAUSE OF THE SUBSIDIES ON THE
40:45FRONT END AND BECAUSE WE PUSH
40:47THE TRUE COSTS OF RENEWING AND
40:49REPAIRING AND MAINTAINING THOSE
40:50OFF INTO THE FUTURE.
40:52THAT'S WHERE THE PONZI SCHEME
40:54ASPECT COMES IN.
40:55I'M GOING TO GET MONEY FROM
40:57SOMEONE ELSE WHO WILL GET STUCK
41:00HOLDING THE BAG LATER.
41:02IN PENN HILLS, THIS TOWN OUTSIDE
41:06OF PITTSBURGH, IF YOU LOOK NOW,
41:08THE FAMILIES WHO ARE LIVING IN
41:09THAT COMMUNITY NOW AND USING THE
41:11PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM NOW,
41:13INCLUDING BETHANY SMITH, A
41:16MOTHER WHO BOUGHT THE HOUSE
41:18THREE DOORS DOWN, ARE NOT ONLY
41:20GETTING THAT SAME BENEFIT --
41:22GENEROUS SOCIAL CONTRACT MY
41:23FAMILY RECEIVED, BUT ARE ON THE
41:25HOOK FOR PAYING FOR THOSE
41:27OPPORTUNITIES WE ALREADY
41:28EXTRACTED.
41:29THAT SHOWS UP IN SEWAGE BILLS,
41:31PROPERTY TAX RATES, HIGHER COST
41:34OF LIVING FOR LOWER SERVICES AND
41:36BENEFITS.
41:36>> I WANT TO MENTION THAT THE
41:38NAMES OF PEOPLE YOU WROTE ABOUT
41:41ARE ACTUALLY PSEUDONYMS, EXCEPT
41:45FOR BETHANY SMITH.
41:47WHERE DID THE IDEA OF THE
41:50SUBURBS COME FROM TO BEGIN WITH?
41:52JUST THE IDEA OF THE SUBURBS IN
41:54AMERICA, WHERE DID THAT COME
41:56FROM?
41:56HOW DID IT BECOME SOMETHING TO
41:59SORT OF ASPIRE TO?
42:01>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.
42:02I THINK PART OF WHAT IS SO
42:04IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER WHEN WE
42:05LOOK AT THE CHALLENGING THAT
42:08SUBURBIA IS FACING NOW, HOW THEY
42:10GOT BUILT.
42:11NOT JUST THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND
42:12THE POLICY BEHIND IT, BUT THE
42:14VISION AND THE DREAM.
42:17THERE'S ALWAYS BEEN THIS
42:19METHODOLOGY THAT THE SUBURBS ARE
42:20THE PLACE WHERE WE CAN GO TO
42:22ESCAPE OUR PROPERTIES, TO ESCAPE
42:24THE PAST, TO ESCAPE OUR RACIAL
42:26SINS AS A NATION, TO ESCAPE THE
42:29PEOPLE THAT WE WANT TO LEAVE
42:31BEHIND, WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE
42:32RESOURCES WITH, WE DON'T WANT TO
42:34SHARE TAX DOLLARS WITH AND
42:35SCHOOLS AND NEIGHBORHOODS WITH.
42:37IT'S RACIALIZED FROM THE
42:38BEGINNING.
42:39THE IDEA FROM THE FEDERAL
42:40GOVERNMENT WAS ESSENTIALLY
42:52SUBSIDIZING, SETTING THEM UP TO
42:55BE EXCLUSIVE.
42:59>> YOU DESCRIBE THIS AS A
43:04PERNICIOUS IDEA FROM THE
43:05BEGINNING.
43:06WAS DID SO TERRIBLE THAT PEOPLE
43:07CAME BACK FROM FIGHTING WARS
43:09OVERSEAS AND WANTED SOME SPACE?
43:11DOES IT START OUT AS A KIND OF
43:15RACIAL ESCAPE PROJECT?
43:18>> YES.
43:19THE SHORT ANSWER.
43:19>> WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS YES.
43:21>> THE IMPULSE TO WANT A NEW
43:24HOME WITH A NICE YARD ON A QUIET
43:25STREET WITH GOOD PUBLIC SCHOOLS
43:27AND NICE AMENITIES, THAT'S A
43:27COMMON DESIRE.
43:30WHEN IT BECOMES AVAILABLE, IT
43:32MAKE PRESIDENT SENSE.
43:33IT'S A VERY RATIONAL DECISION WE
43:34WANT THAT LIFESTYLE.
43:35THERE'S A REASON TENS OF
43:37MILLIONS OF PEOPLE REORGANIZE
43:39THEIR LIVES TO FIGHT THEIR WAY
43:41INTO THOSE COMMUNITIES.
43:42THE PROBLEM FROM THE BEGINNING,
43:44AS IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN, AS YOU
43:46DESCRIBE THIS RACIAL ESCAPE
43:48PROJECT.
43:48WHAT WE ARE SEEING NOW IS THAT
43:50WE ARE RUNNING UP AGAINST THE
43:52LIMITS OF THAT.
43:53PART OF THIS DYNAMIC THAT I
43:55DESCRIBE IN SUBURBIA, WE THINK
43:56ABOUT WHITE FLIGHT OUT OF CITIES
43:58INTO SUBURBS.
44:00THAT'S VERY TRUE.
44:01WHAT WE HAVE MISSED AS A NATION
44:02IS THAT WE ARE SEEING WHITE
44:04FLIGHT OUT OF OLDER SUBURBS AS
44:05WELL.
44:06>> YOUR ARGUMENT IS THE BILL IS
44:08COMING DUE.
44:08WHY IS THAT?
44:09>> IT'S TWO FACTORS.
44:12ONE IS, WE LOSE SIGHT SOMETIMES
44:15OF HOW VAST THIS SUBURBANIZATION
44:18PROJECT WAS.
44:19THERE WERE THOUSANDS AND
44:20THOUSANDS OF COMMUNITIES THAT
44:21WERE REALLY BUILT UP ALMOST
44:24OVERNIGHT IN THE TIME PERIOD
44:25RIGHT AFTER WORLD WAR II.
44:26THIS WAS SOMETHING ALL OVER THE
44:28COUNTRY.
44:28IT WAS BECAUSE THERE WAS FEDERAL
44:29INVESTMENT.
44:31PART OF WHAT WE HAVE TO REMEMBER
44:32IS THAT THOSE COMMUNITIES WERE
44:35DESIGNED FOR ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE
44:36AT ONE STAGE OF LIFE WITH ONE
44:38GENERAL SET OF DREAMS AND
44:40AMBITIONS.
44:40IT WORKED VERY WELL FOR THEM AT
44:42FIRST.
44:42AS THOSE COMMUNITIES AGE, ALL OF
44:46THAT INFRASTRUCTURE NEEDS REPAIR
44:47AT THE SAME TIME.
44:48WE SEE ROADS, SEWERS, STREETS,
44:51SCHOOLS, THE SIDING ON YOUR
44:53HOUSE, THE ROOF, ALL OF THESE
44:55THINGS NEED REPAIR AT THE SAME
44:56TIME.
44:57WHAT WE HAVE DONE AS ACENTIIZED
45:01PEOPLE TO LEAVE RATHER THAN
45:02IMPROVE AND GROW.
45:04PART OF WHAT HAPPENS IS THESE
45:07COMMUNITIES -- EVERYTHING GETS
45:08OLD AT ONCE.
45:09WE HAVE TO FIX THEM AT ONCE.
45:11IT'S BECAUSE THEY WERE REALLY
45:14DESIGNED FOR YOUNG WHITE
45:16FAMILIES AND A PARTICULAR KIND
45:17OF FAMILY.
45:18THAT IS VERY BAKED INTO THE
45:21DESIGN AND THE SOCIAL FABRIC OF
45:21THE COMMUNITIES.
45:24AS THAT CHANGES, AS THAT
45:26EVOLVES, AS DIFFERENT FAMILIES
45:27AND STRUCTURES COME IN, THE
45:30COMMUNITIES STRUGGLE TO RESPOND.
45:31YOU CAN SEE IT IN THE HOUSING
45:33STOCK.
45:33YOU CAN SEE IT IN THESE
45:35DAY-TO-DAY INTERACTIONS THAT END
45:37UP PRODUCING A LOT OF
45:39DISILLUSIONMENT THAT I FOUND
45:40WHEN I TALKED TO PARENTS.
45:41>> WHY?
45:43BECAUSE CHANGING -- WHY WOULD
45:44CHANGING DEMOGRAPHICS
45:47NECESSARILY LEAD TO THAT?
45:49ARE THESE PEOPLE UNDERRESOURCED
45:52COMPARE
45:55COMPARED TO THE PEOPLE THEY
45:57LEFT?
45:57WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?
45:58>> THE KEY POINT IS WHERE WE
45:59KIND OF LOCATE THE PROBLEM.
46:02WHAT I DO IN THE BOOK IS LOCATE
46:04THE PROBLEM -- WE SEE IT MOST
46:06CLEARLY IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS.
46:07I WILL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.
46:09ONE OF THE FAMILIES I SPENT
46:11SEVERAL YEARS FOLLOWING WITH,
46:13THEY ARE THE ROBINSONS.
46:14A MIDDLE CLASS PROFESSIONAL
46:17BLACK FAMILY IN THE SUBURBS OF
46:19ATLANTA.
46:19WE HAVE ADVANCED DEGREES.
46:20MOM IS WORKING ON A Ph.D..
46:25THEY ARE INVESTED IN THEIR KIDS'
46:27EDUCATION.
46:27THEY BOUGHT THE NICE HOUSE IN
46:29THE NICE NEIGHBORHOOD ATTACHED
46:30TO THE NICE SCHOOL.
46:31FELT LIKE, OKAY, WE ARE BUYING
46:33INTO THIS DREAM.
46:33WE ARE DOING WHAT WE'RE SUPPOSED
46:35TO DO.
46:35IT WORKED OUT OKAY FOR A WHILE
46:38UNTIL THEIR OLDEST SON, A BLACK
46:40BOY NAMED COREY, STARTS MIDDLE
46:41SCHOOL.
46:42THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN, HIS
46:45PHYSICALITY, HIS PERSONALITY,
46:47HIS WAY OF COMMUNICATING, HIS --
46:49THE WAY HE INTERACTS, THAT
46:51BECOMES A PROBLEM IN A WAY THAT
46:53STARTS GETTING PUNISHED
46:55DIRECTLY.
46:56THE PARENTS, THEY ARE INVOLVED.
46:57WE'RE GOING TO NIP THIS IN THE
46:59BUD.
46:59WE WILL GO TALK TO THE SCHOOL
47:01SYSTEM, SAY WE WANT TO BE
47:02PARTNERS WITH YOU.
47:03WE'RE IN THIS TOGETHER TO HOLD
47:06OUR SON ACCOUNTABLE FOR WHAT HE
47:07HAS DONE WRONG, MAKE SURE HE CAN
47:10IMPROVE, CORRECT IT AND MOVE ON.
47:11WHAT HAPPENS IS WHEN THEY DECIDE
47:12TO GO TO THAT MEETING, THE
47:14MOTHER AND FATHER SAY -- THEY
47:16ARE INTENTIONAL.
47:17THEY SAID, WE'RE GOING TO INVITE
47:20COREY'S GRANDPARENTS, HIS
47:21MINISTER, HIS COACH, HIS MENTOR
47:23AND SOME OF HIS ADULT FRIENDS.
47:25FOR THEM, THE IDEA IS, WE'RE
47:26COMING TO SHOW YOU THAT WE ARE A
47:28GOOD FAMILY, THAT THERE'S A LOT
47:30OF SUPPORT FOR OUR CHILD AND
47:31THERE'S RESOURCES THAT WE HAVE
47:32THAT YOU CAN TAP INTO.
47:34WHAT THE SCHOOL SYSTEM SAID IS,
47:36THOSE PEOPLE CAN'T COME INTO THE
47:37MEETING BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT YOUR
47:38FAMILY.
47:39>> THEY ARE BASICALLY SAYING, WE
47:41ARE SCARED OF HIM.
47:42>> YES.
47:43>> THE BEHAVIOR THAT READS AS
47:46NORMAL MIDDLE SCHOOL KID
47:48BEHAVIOR TO HIS FAMILY AND HIS
47:53EXTENDED COMMUNITY READS TO THIS
47:55SCHOOL AS THREATENING, DANGEROUS
47:56AND TO BE CONTROLLED?
47:57>> THAT'S SOMETHING THAT MOM
48:00STARTS SEEING IN HIS DISCIPLINE
48:01FILES,BULLY,
48:05AGGRESSIVE.
48:05WHAT SHE STARTS TO REALIZE IS --
48:09THEY ARE PROFESSIONAL PEOPLE.
48:10THEY ARE IN THIS MEETING.
48:13MOM SAYS, I SEE WHAT YOU ARE
48:14DOING.
48:14YOU ARE TRYING TO DOCUMENT MY
48:16CHILD TO DEATH SO YOU CAN SEND
48:18HIM OUT.
48:18I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING,
48:20BECAUSE I'M IN MANAGEMENT, TOO.
48:21I HAVE DONE IT MYSELF.
48:26SAY, SEE US FOR WHO WE ARE.
48:28LIKE YOU ARE SAYING, RECOGNIZE
48:32THE GIFTS AND RESOURCES.
48:34THERE'S THIS CONSTANT MISMATCH.
48:36YOU SEE IT IN THE INTERACTIONS
48:38AND AT A SCHOOL BOARD LEVEL.
48:40IN THAT COUNTY OUTSIDE OF
48:42ATLANTA, WAS 90% WHITE AS
48:46RECENTLY AS 1990.
48:47NOW IT'S NEARLY THREE-FOURTHS
48:50MULTIRACIAL.
48:51THE CHANGE IN LEADERSHIP OF THE
48:52SCHOOL DISTRICT CHANGED MORE
48:55SLOWLY.
48:55WE ARE SEEING THAT ACROSS THE
48:56COUNTRY.
48:56>> I'M GOING BACK TO THE
48:59ANECDOTE YOU SPOKE OF AT THE
49:01BEGINNING.
49:01YOU SAID YOU WERE DRAWING ON THE
49:03CLASSROOM FURNITURE AND THE
49:05TEACHER SAID, USE MY TYPEWRITER.
49:07I'M THINKING ABOUT THE STORY YOU
49:08ARE TELLING ME.
49:09IF THAT BOY HAD DRIVEN -- DRAWN
49:12ON FURNITURE, WHAT WOULD HAVE
49:15HAPPENED?
49:15>> HE GOT WRITTEN UP FOR
49:16EVERYTHING FROM TAPPING HIS
49:17PENCIL TOO LOUDLY ON THE DESK,
49:19SPENDING TOO LONG IN THE
49:21BATHROOM, SLAPPING A FRIEND IN
49:22THE BACK OF THE HEAD ON A DARE
49:24BECAUSE YOU ARE 14.
49:25THAT'S A DETENTION.
49:26IT STARTS TO ESCALATE.
49:28PART OF WHAT IS SO ALARMING AND
49:31WHERE THE ROBINSON FAMILY REALLY
49:34HAD THIS RECKONING AS PARENTS
49:37THAT REFLECTS ON SUBURBAN DREAM
49:39WE WERE TALKING ABOUT EARLIER,
49:40WE HAVE ORGANIZED OUR WHOLE
49:42LIVES, OUR EDUCATION, OUR
49:44CAREERS, OUR HOME, OUR FINANCES
49:46WHERE WE -- HOW WE ARE RAISING
49:48OUR CHILDREN AROUND ACCESS TO
49:50THIS DREAM IN SUBURBIA.
49:53WHAT WE ARE SEEING IS IT'S KIND
49:55OF NOT WORKING.
49:55IT'S NOT HAPPENING.
49:57PART OF THE DISILLUSIONMENT THAT
49:59SO MANY FAMILIES ARE FEELING,
50:01ESPECIALLY SUBURBAN FAMILIES OF
50:03COLOR, IS WE HAVE DONE
50:04EVERYTHING RIGHT AND THERE'S
50:05STILL NO GOOD OPTIONS WHERE WE
50:07HAVE ACCESS TO ALL OF THESE
50:09OPPORTUNITY THAT SHOULD BE OURS,
50:11THAT THE COMMUNITY PROMISED, AND
50:12WHERE OUR CHILD IS NOT ONLY SAFE
50:15BUT IS RECOGNIZED, SEEN AND
50:17RESPECTED.
50:17>> IT'S INTERESTING.
50:18WE DON'T -- IT SEEMS LIKE WE
50:20DON'T HAVE AN INFRASTRUCTURE TO
50:21TALK ABOUT.
50:22WHAT IS THE HOUSING
50:24DEPARTMENT -- THE FEDERAL
50:25HOUSING DEPARTMENT IS HOUSING
50:27AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT.
50:30IT'S NOT HOUSING AND EVERYBODY
50:32DEVELOPMENT OR HOUSING AND
50:35SUBURBAN DEVELOPMENT.
50:36IT'S ALMOST AS IF WE HAVE THIS
50:38NOTION THAT THE WHOLE QUESTION
50:42OF RESOURCE BALANCE, RESOURCE
50:49ALLOCATION, IT'S AN URBAN ISSUE.
50:53>> IT WAS REALLY FROM THE
50:56BEGINNING DEEPLY BAKED INTO THE
50:57OPERATIONS AND CULTURE OF PLACES
50:58TO DEFLECT SCRUTINY.
51:06THEY WERE A BLAND PLACE WHERE
51:08PEOPLE RETREATED.
51:10THAT IS -- IT'S DEEPLY ROOTED
51:11AND IT'S A PROBLEM.
51:12THAT'S WHY WE ARE SO BAD AT
51:14TALKING ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING
51:15IN SUBURBIA NOW.
51:17WHAT I DID SEE WHEN I GOT TO
51:18KNOW THESE FAMILIES AND SPENT
51:20TIMES IN THE COMMUNITIES AND
51:22SCHOOL DISTRICTS IS THAT EVERY
51:24COMMUNITY THERE WERE PARENTS
51:25WORKING ON THESE ISSUES.
51:26SOMETIMES THAT MIGHT BE, WE NEED
51:28TO GET THE DRESS CODE RIGHT AT
51:29THIS SCHOOL.
51:30I'M NOT GOING TO LET MY KID GET
51:32IN TROUBLE FOR WEARING BRAIDS.
51:34SOME PLACES IT MIGHT BE, WE NEED
51:36A SCHOOL BOARD THAT LOOKS LIKE
51:37US.
51:37SOME PLACES IT MIGHT BE, WE NEED
51:39TO REPAIR THE SEWER SYSTEM.
51:40THERE ARE CITIZENS AND PEOPLE IN
51:43SUBURBIA ALL OVER THE COUNTRY,
51:44ESPECIALLY PARENTS, WHO ARE
51:45WORKING ON THIS.
51:46YOU ARE RIGHT, WE DON'T HAVE A
51:48LARGE AND NATIONAL NARRATIVE
51:49THAT ALLOWS US TO CONNECT THE
51:51DOTS AND SEE HOW MY STRUGGLE, MY
51:53WORK, MY FIGHT TO IMPROVE MY
51:55COMMUNITY IS CONNECTED TO YOURS.
51:56THAT'S PART OF WHAT I HOPE THIS
51:58WILL DO IS SHINE A LIGHT ON NOT
52:00ONLY THE PROBLEMS, BUT THE
52:02THINGS THAT PEOPLE ARE ALREADY
52:02DOING TO ADDRESS THEM AND HELP
52:04US CONNECT TO EACH OTHER.
52:05WE REALLY DO HAVE A NATIONAL
52:08SHARED PROBLEM.
52:09>> ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS YOU SEE
52:11PLAYING OUT IN SCHOOL BOARDS AND
52:12PTA MEETINGS AND THESE
52:15CONFRONTATIONS OVER BOOKS AND
52:17CURRICULUM IS A PERSPECTIVE THAT
52:18SOME PEOPLE HAVE THAT THEIR
52:20VERSION OF HISTORY, THEIR
52:22VERSION OF SOCIETY IS CORRECT.
52:26THAT IS THE ONE THAT IS TO BE
52:35SUBSIDIZED.
52:35DOES YOUR REPORTING INDICATE A
52:36WAY OUT THAT WAS, WHAT SEEMS TO
52:38BE A BINARY?
52:40FRANKLY, A SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT
52:41ON THE PART OF SOME THAT OTHER
52:43PEOPLE -- THAT THEY DON'T
52:44BELIEVE OTHER PEOPLE HAVE.
52:45>> PART OF WHAT HAPPENS FOR ME,
52:47WHEN I STARTED DOING THE
52:48RE-EXAMINATION OF MY OWN
52:50EXPERIENCE, MY FAMILY'S
52:52INVOLVEMENT IN THIS DYNAMIC,
52:54IT'S VERY PAINFUL.
52:55A DIFFERENT SET OF CONVERSATIONS
52:57WITH MY FATHER.
52:57HE TOLD ME AT ONE POINT
53:00EXPLAINING THE CONDITION HE LEFT
53:01THE HOUSE IN, I WASN'T
53:02INTERESTED IN BEING A GOOD
53:03COMMUNITY PERSON.
53:05THAT WAS PART OF HOW I GREW UP.
53:07PART I WHAT I HAD TO UNLEARN IN
53:09ORDER TO WRITE THE BOOK.
53:10IT SHOWED UP MOST DIRECTLY IN MY
53:13RELATIONSHIP WITH BETHANY SMITH.
53:20SHE FOUND HERSELF ALL OF A
53:21SUDDEN CONFRONTED NOT WITH THIS
53:23GENEROUS SOCIAL CONTRACT BUT
53:25WITH THE BURDENS LEFT BEHIND.
53:26WHEN WE WOULD TALK ABOUT THIS,
53:30WE WOULD -- THE RELATIONSHIP
53:31EVOLVES.
53:31WE WOULD TALK.
53:32IT BECAME VERY PERSONAL.
53:34SHE SAID EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE
53:35SAYING TO ME.
53:36SHE SAID, I'M VERY UNCOMFORTABLE
53:38WITH THIS, WITH THIS IDEA OF YOU
53:40AS A WHITE MAN COMING IN TO TELL
53:42THIS STORY AND TAKE IT AWAY AND
53:44TELL IT FOR YOUR OWN PURPOSES.
53:45SHE WAS RIGHT.
53:46IT WAS A REPETITION OF THAT
53:48PATTERN.
53:49ONCE I KNEW THAT PATTERN AND
53:50WHAT IT WAS, I WAS ABLE TO
53:51UNDERSTAND THE ACCURACY OF WHAT
53:53SHE WAS SAYING.
53:54WE RECONFIGURED THE WAY WE
53:56WORKED TOGETHER.
53:56SHE ENDED UP WRITING THE EP
54:08EPILOGUE.
54:11I LEARNED TO NOT ONLY SEE MY OWN
54:14EXPERIENCES IN A DIFFERENT WAY
54:15BY CONSIDERING THEM SIDE BY SIDE
54:16WITH OTHERS, MY OWN EXPERIENCES
54:18AS A WHITE MIDDLE CLASS SUBURBAN
54:21CHILD, BY COMPARING THEM WITH
54:23OTHERS, BUT ALSO BEGAN TO
54:24UNDERSTAND THERE ARE OTHER WAYS
54:26TO DREAM ABOUT A COMMUNITY AND
54:27WHAT IT CAN BE.
54:28THERE ARE WAYS TO HAVE A NOTION
54:31OF COMMUNITY THAT IS ABOUT
54:34INTERGENERATIONAL CONTRACT, THAT
54:35IS ABOUT MAKING SURE YOU LEAVE
54:37BEHIND SOMETHING THAT IS GOOD
54:38FOR WHO IS GOING TO FOLLOW.
54:40THAT WAS -- IT'S NOT HOW I GREW
54:42UP.
54:42I HAD TO UNLEARN A LOT OF WHAT I
54:44GREW UP WITH AND LEARN SOMETHING
54:45NEW.
54:46WE DO THAT BY ALLOWING OURSELVES
54:49TO HEAR THESE CONVERSATIONS AND
54:51STORIES FROM OTHER PEOPLE.
54:52NOT EVERYONE IS WILLING TO DO
54:53THAT.
54:53BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE.
54:55>> BENJAMIN, THANKS FOR TALKING
54:57WITH US.
54:57>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
54:58IT WAS A PLEASURE.
54:59>> THAT'S A REALLY INTERESTING
55:01COMMUNITY INVESTIGATION.
55:02REALLY IMPORTANT.
55:04>>> FINALLY TONIGHT, IT IS
55:08PANCAKE TUESDAY.
55:09IN MANY NATIONS THAT CELEBRATE
55:11EASTER, CARNIVAL SEASON IS IN
55:13FULL SWING.
55:15THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF
55:18PERFORMERS FILLING THE STREETS
55:19OF RIO FOR THEIR CELEBRATIONS
55:21WITH SOME REVELLERS ARRIVING ON
55:23GLAMOROUS FLOATS AND DRESSED
55:24HEAD TO TOE IN FLAMBOYANT
55:27OUTFITS, SEQUINS, FEATHERS.
55:33SAMBA DANCERS HERE.
55:3512 SCHOOLS VIE FOR THE CARNIVAL
55:37CHAMPIONS TITLE.
55:38>>> IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT
55:40WHAT'S COMING UP EVERY NIGHT,
55:41SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT
55:49PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.
55:50THANKS FOR WATCHING AND GOOD-BYE
55:52FROM LONDON.