#TheReporters #IslamabadHighCourt #SupremeCourt #QaziFaezIsa #ShahbazKhosa
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Khawar Ghumman - Chaudhry Ghulam Hussain
Guests:
- Shahbaz Ali Khan Khosa (Lawyer)
- Haider Naqvi (Analyst)
- Hassan Ayub Khan (Analyst)
Barrister Shahbaz Khosa's analysis on IHC judges' letter case
Suo Moto Notice of IHC judges letter - Ch Ghulam Hussain and Hassan Ayub's Analysis
Suo Moto Notice of IHC judges letter Case | Haider Naqvi's Analysis
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
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ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Khawar Ghumman - Chaudhry Ghulam Hussain
Guests:
- Shahbaz Ali Khan Khosa (Lawyer)
- Haider Naqvi (Analyst)
- Hassan Ayub Khan (Analyst)
Barrister Shahbaz Khosa's analysis on IHC judges' letter case
Suo Moto Notice of IHC judges letter - Ch Ghulam Hussain and Hassan Ayub's Analysis
Suo Moto Notice of IHC judges letter Case | Haider Naqvi's Analysis
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
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NewsTranscript
00:00 Assalamu alaikum, dear viewers, welcome to the program. Today, the 7th member bench of the Supreme Court has taken a hearing.
00:17 You remember the notice that has been taken, that a letter has been written from the 6 honourable judges of Islamabad High Court, in which they have presented a chart sheet, that this treatment is being done to us for the past few days.
00:33 We are told what we have to do, where we will be questioned, because the existing code of conduct, according to that letter and according to the 6 judges, does not guide us in this regard.
00:45 If such circumstances arise, we are threatened from somewhere, we are threatened from somewhere, then should we respond to it individually or should we respond to it on the basis of the court's authority?
00:58 Initially, you know the whole matter, a letter was written, a full court committee meeting was held, the Supreme Court Chief Justice met with Shabbah Sharif, Prime Minister, then a one member commission was formed.
01:12 Justice Tasaddeg Jilani Sahib, who was to be the head, initially he agreed, later he refused himself, then he wrote a letter, that I think this work should be done by the Chief Justice himself or the Supreme Judicial Council, who has been written this letter.
01:31 The whole matter is very interesting, a lot of questions were raised there, the Chief Justice told in great detail, how this letter reached me, and how I responded to it individually as a Chief Justice.
01:48 I called the judges, then I held a full court committee meeting and put all the information in front of the entire Pakistani public through live broadcast.
01:58 And told how serious we are about this whole matter and to reach it to its logical conclusion, we will use all means.
02:08 He gave good news that after today, a Supreme Court order should be understood from our side, that if at any level, we have any interference in the matter of justice, if it comes to us, then we will see it.
02:20 The rest of this incident, in reference to the letter, he also gave this, that in the coming days it is possible, which will be hearing again on 28th or 29th April, then a full court bench can also be made.
02:32 He told that in today's date, only these judges are present here, the rest of the judges are in Lahore, some in Karachi, so after Eid, they will all come, so we can make everyone sit.
02:44 We have invited Barrister Shahbaz Khosla, who is the Additional Secretary of the Supreme Court Bar Association, and he has kept a lot of attention on the whole matter.
02:53 I was watching his appearance on the television programs, that he has a point of view, he has an opinion, we will try to know that.
03:02 And today, the questions raised during the hearing of today's case, from Judge Sahiban, from the Supreme Court Chief Justice, we will try to know their answer.
03:12 And what is the way forward? Now, obviously, this case has to be brought to a logical conclusion, so how will it be brought?
03:19 But before that, Qazi Faiz Ishar Sahib told Judge Sahiban, the people present in the court, and through live coverage, the entire Pakistani people, that how this commission was made.
03:32 [Foreign Language]
04:00 [Foreign Language]
04:26 The unfortunate thing is, everyone knows whatever is happening, but everyone is pretending as if nothing is happening.
04:36 [Foreign Language]
04:40 This, what you are saying, you have rightly said, that there was political engineering, till some time, and probably the perception is, that this court was also involved.
04:53 But, what the letter is saying, that that is continuing, and this is of utmost importance.
05:02 So let us not pretend that nothing is happening, we have to take this thing very seriously.
05:10 The constitution, what they have pointed out, is a normalization of culture of deviance on part of the state.
05:20 That is the question which is of public importance.
05:23 [Foreign Language]
05:48 Judge Ishar Sahib, Mansoor Sahib, Senior Pune Judge, they echoed the letter written by the 6 judges, that a lot of matters are serious, these things are happening.
05:59 Speaking for myself, how I am seeing this, as Atar Sahib has said, that things have been happening, and we cannot sit like an ostrich, with our head in the sand.
06:12 We have to, and these are very honourable judges in Islamabad High Court, who have written this thing and told us, otherwise these things are happening, and have been happening for a long time.
06:24 So we have to do this, and it is our duty, to maintain this independence of judiciary, we have to lay down a very strict court, which ensures that there is no such interference.
06:36 [Foreign Language]
06:54 This is the same point, which the 6 judges had written in their letter, that in the Code of Conduct, there is no such way, there is no forum.
07:02 Then Justice Mansoor Sahib has also said that, the Adhar Ajapi response should come, and it is very important.
07:08 [Foreign Language]
07:36 [Foreign Language]
07:50 And, while raising their voices, Justice Mansoor's Justice Atar Manila Sahib has also said, that we cannot close our eyes.
07:58 The abuse, extensive abuse, we cannot just shut our eyes, and pretend as if we do not know.
08:06 This court is the custodian of fundamental rights of the people.
08:10 And that is what is being highlighted, and again I will emphasize, what is being highlighted is, this culture of deviance, which has been entrenched in this governance system for the past 76 years.
08:27 This letter addresses that question.
08:31 Barah Sir, thank you very much for giving us your time.
08:34 Today you must have heard the hearing, we have also put some of its important points in front of you.
08:40 What is your immediate impression, what do you think will happen after today's hearing?
08:44 Where will this matter go? How will it settle?
08:47 There are some other questions that have been raised, we will talk about that later.
08:51 But what is your immediate reaction on today's hearing?
08:55 Thank you very much for having me.
09:00 First of all, we are very happy that the Supreme Court has finally taken this case to the court.
09:08 And this is fundamentally the case of the court.
09:12 What kind of external pressure does a judge face when he is seized with an important list?
09:19 No one knows this better than the judges.
09:21 Just like you are a journalist, you must also be under pressure.
09:25 If you tell me as a lawyer that you are under pressure, then I may not be able to guess it correctly.
09:32 I may not know how a journalist is under pressure.
09:35 But the way it was the case of judges, it suited the judges better.
09:40 Independence of Judiciary and separation of power is the grand norm of our Constitution.
09:47 It is the basic structure of our Constitution on which our state lays its edifice.
09:55 If Judiciary is not independent and self-determined, then Judiciary cannot take decisions independently.
10:05 Only an Attorney General has a single office, which is the part of the Executive and the part of Judiciary.
10:13 And that is the commonality between the two.
10:17 If the Executive has to do something with Judiciary, then it is communicated through Attorney General.
10:22 And if Judiciary has to give instructions to the Executive, then it is communicated through Attorney General.
10:29 This is the only office in the separation of powers that overlaps.
10:35 The Chief Justice meeting the Prime Minister and giving the Commission's name to the judges
10:46 was a breach of the doctrine of separation of powers.
10:50 It was a breach of the independence of Judiciary.
10:53 All the lawyers were very much concerned about this.
10:56 The freedom of the lawyers and the freedom of the judges is a trust that is with today's Judiciary.
11:05 And today's government has to keep this trust sacred for the next government, the next judges and the people of Pakistan.
11:14 This independence was not achieved in a way that was easy.
11:17 It was achieved after a lot of struggle.
11:19 Lawyers gave their blood for this.
11:21 There were martyrs in Karachi, Malir, Islamabad, Quetta and Sialkot.
11:28 Bukla travelled a lot in the lawyers' movement.
11:32 And finally, he came and some of his emperors reached us.
11:36 So, if we roll back this and give it to the Chief Justice and say that I had told him this,
11:42 then you had not said it right, I am sorry.
11:45 And this is the reason why the reaction came from all the bars across Pakistan.
11:49 But it is true that you took a vow of silence.
11:52 Thank you very much.
11:53 We have hope from our Judiciary.
11:55 Absolutely.
11:56 Khurram sir, all my panelists are with us.
11:59 And today, a very important remark came from Justice Mandu Khel sir, if I am not mistaken.
12:04 He said that we can take this letter as an opportunity and build on it and move forward.
12:10 Judge Gulam Singh sir, what is your immediate reaction in today's hearing?
12:14 What do you think? How is the matter moving forward?
12:17 The first thing is that the letter of the six judges is a historical event.
12:24 And all the pressures, all the interference, all the matters that we are facing every day,
12:34 the attack on the freedom of the judiciary, the attempt to cut their wings,
12:40 they have dared to do it, they have kept talking, but then they have brought it to a record.
12:47 Today, it is such a historical event that the court has sat on it.
12:52 But forgive me, Shahbaz Khosla sir, who I think took the most votes in his capacity,
13:00 and he got a lot of mandate from the lawyers, and his family has a lot of struggle.
13:06 Having said, if your judiciary had done its job,
13:12 then more than 10,000 people would not have been arrested, people's homes would not have been demolished,
13:19 people's daughters would not have been misbehaved with, their elders would not have been insulted.
13:25 Today, in Pakistan, the atmosphere of fear and terror,
13:31 one of the branches of this is the Bar and Bench, these people are responsible.
13:36 Neither the lawyers did their job, nor the judges took care of the court,
13:42 and today, the people of Pakistan are helpless, there is no forum left.
13:47 Today, I greet Atar Minala sir, he said, "What about the incidents that are happening today?"
13:56 And Shahbaz Khosla sir, you tell me, how many people are being arrested by the police and the administration,
14:06 and are being jailed, and are facing false charges, there is no one to question.
14:12 Now, where will the people of Pakistan go?
14:16 Khosla sir, I will collect all these questions and come to you.
14:20 Hassan Ayub, I want to hear your reaction.
14:23 We saw that Nureen Fatima, she wanted to be highlighted,
14:26 so she said, "I have given the application because of this."
14:29 She is being written by Reshma today, she does not want to be highlighted.
14:33 I do not know who Reshma is, all the judges of the Supreme Court and the High Court were appointed on 1st April.
14:40 Today is April Fool.
14:41 They have disclosed today, in the Supreme Court, Lahore High Court has also disclosed today,
14:46 it is on 1st April, I do not know.
14:48 The chemical powder has gone for forensic, it has been 3-4 days, it will come from there.
14:53 The chemical will be forensic, now the biological can be forensic or not.
14:57 Now, how much capacity it has, when it will come, that will be revealed.
15:00 But today's silence was there.
15:03 And just like all the judges, including Justice Atar Manilla,
15:09 Chief Justice, Justice Mansoor Isha, Justice Jamal Bandhu Khel,
15:13 all their remarks were very good.
15:16 Now, I would like to talk about the basic question,
15:19 all agree on one thing, that there is no compromise on the freedom of the judiciary.
15:25 And in any case, as she said, if any incident of any kind is presented in the present time,
15:32 I will not allow it in any case.
15:34 Why is it allowed?
15:36 First thing is this, that in the matters of the judiciary,
15:39 why should anyone dare to intervene?
15:42 And if no one dared, then why should anyone dare to put false allegations of interference?
15:47 This is one thing.
15:49 Second thing is that for 76 years, our Honorable Justice Atar Manilla had spoken,
15:57 but at that time, the Chief Justice of Islamabad High Court,
16:00 when Rana Shameem's affidavit came, and when he took the case,
16:04 then his remarks on that day, he said,
16:06 "There is no question that anyone can interfere with my judges or approach them."
16:12 At that time, he said that me and my judges are upright and do not take any kind of dictation.
16:17 So today, Honorable Justice, you have been saying for 76 years that the same system is in force.
16:21 Either you were right that day, or you are right today.
16:24 Now, which day are you right? You tell yourself.
16:27 Let me come to you, Mr. Khosla.
16:29 Mr. Nagvi, your immediate reaction to today's hearing,
16:32 what do you think? What you have seen, heard, what do you think is the way forward?
16:37 Look, if you remember, a month ago, in this very program, I had said that
16:43 there is a very strong need for grand dialogue between all stakeholders.
16:48 I had also mentioned the name of the court in that,
16:50 on which I was criticized that why would the court sit in dialogues?
16:53 The most important thing is that the court should sit in dialogues.
16:58 Because it is the court that sets the direction.
17:01 Look, the decisions of the judges, we have seen the decisions of the big judges in this country,
17:05 either they were reversed or they were not accepted.
17:08 The biggest decision was of Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto Shaheed, which was reversed.
17:11 Which was recently reversed. It was said that he was not given a chance to hear,
17:15 he was not given a chance to fight the case.
17:17 So, the decisions of the judges, I will say this with humility,
17:19 do not hold as much importance as these grand dialogues hold importance.
17:24 Why is all this happening?
17:26 First of all, it is important to know that why is every judge talking about propaganda?
17:30 Why is every judge talking about the disinformation campaigns that are run against us?
17:37 This is wrong. Where did this start from?
17:39 Look, I will tell you, let me complete, where did this start from?
17:42 Before 2018, we were living in misguidance, we were not aware, we were not educated.
17:47 Then a group came, who told us that supporting every decision of the army is patriotism.
17:53 He came and told us that talking against the decisions of the court is patriotism.
17:58 He told us that standing with the institutions of Pakistan, for a strong Pakistan, is very important.
18:03 He told us in 2018 that the cases of political corruption that are being faced,
18:08 if you talk in their favour, then you are corrupt yourself.
18:11 He told us that these people who talk about all this are not just cover-ups,
18:15 nor are they touts, but are patriots.
18:17 Now, when we have learnt to say and do all this, then you have moved away from behind,
18:21 because you are not in power.
18:22 Now, you have started to connect treachery, slavery, freedom, democracy with everything.
18:27 So, first of all, it is very important to reform this thing.
18:31 What is the direct relation of all this argument with today's hearing, if I have not understood?
18:38 Grand dialogues, I have said grand dialogues.
18:40 I have said grand dialogues.
18:41 Grand dialogues, grand dialogues, grand dialogues.
18:44 Okay, let's go.
18:45 Mr. Khosla, I will come to you, but before coming to you,
18:47 today when it happened, how will the investigation be done?
18:50 Mr. Chief Justice, what is your opinion, how should the investigation be done?
18:53 The method that we have at present, obviously, we will have to go to the Executive.
18:58 Listen.
18:59 I think we are operating in different domains.
19:03 I think the domain of an inquiry is altogether different.
19:07 Because, can the Supreme Court hold Mr. X responsible for interference or intimidation?
19:13 That, I am just thinking aloud now, that would be the inquiry report which will say,
19:18 yes, Mr. X did this and he is responsible for this.
19:23 It could be he acted on his own, it could be he is acting under instructions.
19:27 Now, our authority is in a different domain.
19:29 We will not take away their power.
19:31 Nor will we sit to do that work, that we will sit here and investigate.
19:36 It will be through some inquiry.
19:38 Justice Adar Manila Sahib raised a very important point again that the blame is on the Executive.
19:44 So, how will the Executive investigate?
19:47 My, Leonard President, who is being accused?
19:54 The Executive.
19:55 Executive.
19:56 And it is not just a simple accusation.
20:00 It says that there has been a policy that has been going on since a very long time.
20:05 Yes.
20:06 So, who would investigate?
20:10 The Executive?
20:11 Well, I…
20:13 The Executive will investigate its own self?
20:17 Mr. Khawaja, this is a very important point that who will investigate?
20:21 Will the Executive investigate itself?
20:24 You can also talk about the other few points that have been highlighted here.
20:30 Sir, this independence of judiciary, this Act of Settlement came into force in 1701 in Britain.
20:38 And there they started setting up judges for life so that they cannot be removed.
20:44 They have so much security that they are not threatened.
20:48 Similarly, in America, it is the same that they do not resign or there is no misconduct inquiry under the Supreme Judicial Council, they keep serving.
21:00 Now, this is in Pakistan and India, the age limit of 62 and 65 and Supreme Judicial Council model,
21:06 where you can take an inquiry against judges.
21:09 In India, there is an inquiry against judges in the Supreme Judicial Council and if someone complains to the judges, they also go there.
21:18 So, can't we follow this model?
21:21 Look, the thing is that parallel judiciary cannot come.
21:27 Do you want to give birth to such an opportunity where the state takes up a case against the state's interest
21:38 and later, just like our polarized society, they sit down and make a commission of inquiry on their executive side
21:47 and say that the judge who is making the decision is doing wrong, this is actually happening.
21:52 So, this will give birth to parallel judiciary.
21:55 So, what was made was wrong in my humble opinion and I have many bar associations with me,
22:02 Sindh High Court at Karachi, Lahore High Court, Rawalpindi, similarly Islamabad Bar Association,
22:08 they are very much involved and they have this opinion with me that the case of judiciary should have been taken by judges.
22:14 Chaudhary Ghulamabad Sahib said absolutely right.
22:17 Look, we have many mistakes that brought us here.
22:25 We have seen the condition of our motherland.
22:28 Oh, my name is changed.
22:31 Chaudhary Ghulam Sahib.
22:33 Sorry, sir.
22:34 You said Chaudhary Ghulamabad.
22:37 Sorry, sorry, sorry, sir.
22:40 I had many questions, I am very sorry.
22:44 Sir, you are absolutely right about our courts.
22:48 The courts are in a very bad condition, they are overloaded.
22:51 We need more funding from the executive side so that judges come here.
22:56 Look, you collect billions of rupees from the courts and courts of the court fees, which are billions of rupees.
23:05 If you put a quarter or a half of that on the judiciary, then people can give justice much better.
23:13 My point is that the collection goes to the government through the judicial system,
23:18 a very small part of that is spent on the judicial system by the government.
23:22 If they spend more and increase the courts, then the load will be less on them.
23:25 And when the load is less, then justice will be better.
23:29 The question I asked is who will investigate?
23:32 Because the real issue is stuck on this.
23:34 You are absolutely right about that.
23:36 The Supreme Court has the powers of the civil court, the powers of the high court.
23:46 In 184.3, after Allah, I should not say, but after Allah, if there is anything powerful in Pakistan,
23:52 then it is the institution of the Supreme Court in 184.3.
23:55 And they have all kinds of power.
23:57 Now what happens in India?
24:01 In India, the judges sit together and make their own inquiry committee.
24:05 Now when the judges investigate or when they say to someone,
24:11 then the investigation is run by the judges, not by the federal government.
24:17 Here you know, you should not say this, but in the retired judiciary,
24:21 you are going behind government jobs.
24:24 Your security and tenure is nothing with the retired judge.
24:28 So you expect justice from him and how much power does he have,
24:31 he has the maximum power of the high court.
24:33 So the Supreme Court can do a lot here.
24:36 And see, this is a step of the free and self-determined judiciary,
24:43 which we are going towards.
24:45 These pressures are not just on the judiciary.
24:47 It is your media reporting.
24:49 When you pick up a news here and reach its depth,
24:55 then many times we have heard that you have reached the exclusive places.
24:59 Many pressures come on you that you should not share this story.
25:03 So this is a big issue.
25:05 Shobhani Lala says that he is not a man of entertainment.
25:09 Viewers, we have to go to a small break.
25:11 After the break, we will talk about the hearing that took place today.
25:14 We will talk about it after the break.
25:17 Viewers, the attention of the whole of Pakistan is on the issue
25:23 that this issue raised by the judges of Islamabad High Court,
25:27 what will happen, how will it come out.
25:29 Today, Justice Mansoor, who is the judge,
25:32 who will be the next Chief Justice of Pakistan,
25:34 what did he say? Listen to this question.
25:36 We have taken a so-called motto.
25:39 We have to do something about this.
25:41 And we have to make it clear how to proceed.
25:45 And empower the Chief Justices of the High Courts also
25:49 that if a judge tells them something, they should do something.
25:53 And if a session judge tells them something,
25:55 they should judge the High Court.
25:57 And if they don't, then we should make it clear why they don't.
26:00 I think you should first make your system equal.
26:03 And you are asking us about that.
26:05 Tell us what are your suggestions.
26:07 We have something in our mind, but you tell us yours.
26:10 But Qazi Faiz-Issar thinks that
26:13 obviously you cannot directly control the High Courts.
26:18 There is no equivalent mechanism in the Constitution
26:22 which says the Supreme Court will supervise and control all High Courts.
26:26 So just bear that in mind.
26:28 Now, tomorrow, someone may say you are interfering in the workings of the High Court.
26:33 Just keep the Constitution in mind when making proposals.
26:37 I don't want to run foul of the Constitution
26:40 by directing the High Court to do something.
26:43 And Justice Mansoor has said that
26:46 nothing is happening on the High Court level.
26:49 This has come before us.
26:51 The problem that we have is that
26:53 it is clear in the letter that
26:55 nothing happened when they told their Chief Justice.
26:57 Now the question for us is that
26:59 we have to provide an institutional response
27:01 that if the Chief Justice doesn't do anything, then what should we do?
27:03 We are not saying that we interfere in the High Court.
27:06 We are saying that empower the High Court
27:08 to take the action that it wants to take.
27:10 It is not clear.
27:11 This has come before us because
27:13 they are writing again and again that nothing is happening on their level.
27:16 So we should make it clear that if they don't do anything,
27:19 every High Court has its own power, the power of contempt.
27:22 They should proceed.
27:24 And it is important to make it clear that if they don't proceed,
27:28 then how will the problem escalate?
27:30 Who will attempt?
27:31 These are some things that we have to think about.
27:33 We don't want to interfere in the powers of the High Court
27:36 but we can empower them.
27:38 This is a very important point raised by Justice Mansoor.
27:42 Then Justice Mandu Khail said that this is a very important opportunity.
27:46 This crisis that has been created,
27:48 we should take it as an opportunity so that the matter goes towards a solution.
27:52 Why don't we consider this letter as an opportunity?
27:55 For the first time in the history of Pakistan,
27:57 we are sitting on this issue.
27:59 I think there is no more important issue than this.
28:01 Because until the courts are not free, nothing can happen.
28:05 So we should consider this as an opportunity.
28:08 We should not see how the letter was given.
28:10 We should not see whether it is late, wrong or right.
28:12 We should take this as an opportunity.
28:14 We should leave the past as Mr. Zafar said.
28:16 We should remember the past.
28:18 We can learn lessons from the past.
28:22 But at least today I should get up with the intention that I am free.
28:27 The one who will come after me should understand that I am free.
28:32 Mr. Khulsa, one impression that people are getting after today's hearing is that
28:37 whatever has happened, it should be buried.
28:39 The letter that was written to the judges,
28:42 should be put in the office and let's move forward.
28:45 But do you think that something will be done about it?
28:49 Or will everything be done later and then we will move forward?
28:53 Let's fix the Code of Conduct and then move forward.
28:59 Look, this impression was made because a very long date was given.
29:05 And this impression should not be given at all.
29:08 As the judge said, we should not interfere in the matters of the High Court.
29:12 When you give a judgment, the Supreme Court sits and gives a judgment in its capacity,
29:17 then there is binding on the High Court as well.
29:19 It is binding down to the bottom.
29:21 So to say that if we do something, we do not want to interfere with them,
29:24 this may not be correct either.
29:26 Look, if a Chief Justice is afraid to use his powers,
29:30 then maybe he should look at his role.
29:33 Today he said at one place that if lawyers say,
29:36 take a slow motto, then lawyers should leave the law.
29:40 So if the judge does not want to decide or does not want to decide on the rules,
29:44 then maybe he should do something else.
29:46 This matter is very serious, very strict action is needed on this.
29:50 All stakeholders should be...
29:52 You see, the Bar Associations here are politically aligned.
29:56 And unfortunately, because of that, our independence and our views have become very skewed.
30:03 They see color, political color.
30:06 At this time, we should think purely about the independence of judiciary and its autonomy.
30:13 And we should think about this because we want for the coming generations as well
30:18 that we leave some semblance of justice in Pakistan.
30:23 So that this is not an impression,
30:25 like today 6 judges have this impression that pressure is exerted on them.
30:28 If this spreads to the common people, then a lot of bad will come.
30:32 We have to remove it.
30:34 We should go to Mr. Mansoor Ali Shah and Mr. Madhu Khel.
30:38 This is an opportunity.
30:40 Addressing this opportunity, we should also take the Code of Conduct.
30:43 And the people responsible in this should call the court to themselves very seriously.
30:48 These hearings are to be taken day and night.
30:52 These hearings are to be started from morning and run till night.
30:55 And we have seen on many cases that the court sits during the day and goes till night.
31:00 So this is also the same kind of matter.
31:02 Taking it forward and putting it on someone else will not work.
31:06 Now, the Chief Justice wants that the different Bar Associations here,
31:11 which may not be happy with this, because they have a different point of view,
31:16 should also be invited.
31:17 Make an amicus in this.
31:19 Call the senior lawyer in this.
31:21 Maybe call those who have other kinds of views.
31:25 Hire international experts in this.
31:28 This is not the only country in Pakistan where the executive tries to interfere.
31:32 There is a lot of interference here and in the world.
31:35 Thank you very much for giving time.
31:38 We will go to a short break and after the break, my panel will ask them
31:42 how to proceed with the case in their opinion after the break.
31:46 Welcome back, Mr. Haider Naqvi.
31:49 Your opinion is very clear.
31:51 There is also a suggestion that there should be a grand dialogue.
31:53 But the grand dialogue is obvious.
31:55 When all the institutions will meet on some punishment, it should be good.
31:59 There are suggestions on this.
32:01 But this point, this problem,
32:05 we have taken your sub-motto, we have to move forward.
32:08 How are you seeing this matter being solved?
32:11 Look, I will start.
32:14 What Mr. Mandukhail said there,
32:16 who is the guardian of the freedom of justice in Pakistan after the constitution?
32:22 The guardian of the freedom of justice is the people.
32:26 Now, justice must be thought.
32:28 Mr. Mandukhail said a very good thing that this can be a great opportunity.
32:32 I would like to request Mr. Mandukhail and all the judges from this platform
32:36 to use this opportunity for the opportunity of the people.
32:40 Six judges are here today, tomorrow there will be other judges.
32:44 These people who have been tired of the process of justice for years,
32:48 these people who do not get justice,
32:51 these people who are given date after date,
32:54 the day you think of the betterment of those people,
32:57 the day you think of giving justice to those people on time,
33:00 without any pressure, without any favoritism,
33:03 then you should believe that these people will not only put you on their head,
33:07 but will protect your freedom, will protect your freedom.
33:11 So it is very important that you start this from the bottom,
33:14 starting from the bottom by considering six judges as the people.
33:17 You are right, you are right.
33:19 Mr. Chaudhary Ghulam, the judges are currently in search of justice.
33:23 So do you think that the judges of Islamabad High Court will get justice in this case?
33:29 No, there is no other way.
33:32 If you do not satisfy the six people who are standing here today,
33:38 and if you do not address their concerns,
33:41 then the law of the jungle will be in effect here.
33:44 The one who is asked by a police officer to write an order,
33:50 this is cancelled, this is accepted.
33:53 This will be done.
33:55 Hassan, do you have any information?
33:58 Yes, I have.
33:59 We will also find out about Reshma who has written a letter.
34:01 We will find out about her, but let me give you some information.
34:04 In writing, the two additional session judges of Islamabad,
34:08 both the judges have written to the Chief Justice of Islamabad High Court,
34:14 that there has been no intervention in the judicial system.
34:18 So the allegations that have been made in the letter,
34:21 which our six judges have made, have been practically denied.
34:26 So this is the news, and this too, if needed, can be produced.
34:32 The case is going on, so it will come there.
34:35 We will find out.
34:36 One thing, the judge has left, who was also posted,
34:38 who was also involved in the case.
34:39 The case that was posted,
34:41 the additional two district session judges of Islamabad,
34:45 both of them, who are present at the moment,
34:48 have written to the Chief Justice of Islamabad.
34:51 For God's sake, the six judges of the High Court are wrong,
34:54 and God forbid, they are cheating.
34:56 And the two, I will not say anything more.
34:58 There are three cases, Mr. Chaudhary.
35:00 This is a sub-judicial case, Mr. Chaudhary, and Hassan Ayub,
35:03 my respected, this is a sub-judicial case, in front of the Supreme Court.
35:06 Whatever party wants to be in it,
35:08 it has been told today that they should write a petition.
35:10 Come and bring the case.
35:11 Go, I will give you a statement.
35:12 Today, the Chief Justice has also given this statement,
35:14 that the full court can also sit.
35:15 Let's see what he has said.
35:17 I will just explain why we have seven judges sitting today,
35:22 and why the full court is not sitting.
35:24 Because only seven judges were available in Islamabad.
35:27 Because the other judges, on their own request,
35:30 I have not done that,
35:32 we also believe in the demands of democracy.
35:36 Some are in Karachi, and some are in Lahore.
35:39 So, we might form a full court next time.
35:43 It is very important for the rule of law in the country,
35:47 that there should be a feeling of justice.
35:50 The judge is saying that we are not feeling it.
35:52 See you again tomorrow. Allah Hafiz.