Stuart Dallas' farewell but not goodbye, the promotion picture, Boro next, EFL Awards night and plenty more.
Category
🥇
SportsTranscript
00:00 [inaudible]
00:13 hello. Welcome back to the inside Ellen road podcast.
00:16 We're well and truly into the crunch time period of the season as Daniel
00:19 Farker might say time to be cool in the head with fire in the heart.
00:23 It's leads prepare to take on Middlesbrough QPR and Southampton to finish the
00:26 2023-24 season. And I mean finish on May the 4th.
00:30 None of this dilly dallying with the playoffs, please.
00:32 I got on your leave to take Graham. Most importantly,
00:36 will you be keeping the beard as the weather continues to warm?
00:41 That's a good question.
00:43 I did loosely link the beard to Legionnades on beaten run because they began at
00:47 the same time. You know, they, they, they, they got,
00:50 they got the same start in life in January.
00:54 But since then I've become quite fond of it again.
00:59 I did have a beard until I joined the YAP actually shaved it off the day before
01:03 I started. So I haven't really decided yet what I'm going to do with it.
01:09 I suppose that'll depend just how uncomfortable it is when the warmer weather
01:12 hits, if the warmer weather ever does hit. But yeah,
01:18 I haven't, I haven't really given it that much thought to be honest.
01:20 Well, yeah, if you were going to shave it off after Leeds' unbeaten run came to an
01:25 end, then you'd be, I mean, you'd probably have grown it back by now.
01:28 Considering how, I don't know, how fertile your hair follicles appear to be,
01:34 but yeah, Coventry, Sunderland, Blackburn, not the best fortnight for Leeds.
01:39 Obviously Blackburn being the most recent game, you predicted a 3-0 win.
01:43 I predicted a 1-0 win and it being a closer game.
01:47 It was a close game and ultimately Leeds came off on the wrong side of the result.
01:53 Unbeaten record at home was squandered.
01:58 And yeah, just an all-round disappointing couple of games.
02:02 Yeah, they're wobbling, aren't they?
02:06 They're having a wobble at exactly the wrong time.
02:10 Maybe it was unrealistic to expect that the unbeaten run would just roll right
02:15 through, you know.
02:19 But the problem is when you go on a run like that, when you do lose,
02:26 it's going to be a thing.
02:28 It's going to be a big thing.
02:29 Leeds have finally lost.
02:30 The streak is at an end.
02:33 But then you have to go on another one.
02:36 That's just the harsh, unrelenting nature of trying to get promoted out of a
02:41 division that has two other parachute payment teams, a team that are putting
02:47 together an unbelievable season in Ipswich, and a whole host of teams who are
02:55 going to be very, very worthy playoff candidates and will prove nightmarish
02:59 in the playoffs.
03:01 You simply have to bounce out of a defeat like that into a win or into a draw,
03:09 but then follow that with a win.
03:11 And then you're back on the right course.
03:13 What you absolutely cannot do is wallow in the depths of despair
03:18 and frustration.
03:21 I suppose the saving grace is that everyone else as they near the finishing
03:25 line is also experiencing tired blowouts and nobody wants to win it, do they?
03:34 Nobody wants to cross the finish line first.
03:36 It's like three massive gargantuan spinning tops that are now beginning to
03:42 come to the end of the season.
03:43 And you can sort of see them beginning to go.
03:47 What would you describe Southampton in that scenario then?
03:50 Because they've come back with a vengeance.
03:53 They're a Beyblade.
03:55 Somebody has unleashed a Beyblade in amongst the spinning tops,
03:59 threatening to wipe them all out.
04:04 It would be remarkable, wouldn't it, if they--I thought they were out of it.
04:09 I've thought a lot of things this season that have then proven to be false,
04:13 but I thought they were out of it and they're not.
04:16 No, I mean that Preston game, I mean besides the fact that Preston did appear
04:21 to roll over, they were ruthless and they were doing what the other three teams,
04:28 as in Leeds, Leicester, and Ipswich, have just been unable to do in the past
04:31 couple of games, and that's just take the lead for starters and then sustain a
04:36 lead and then add to it, which has been--throughout this season,
04:40 it's just been par for the course for these three teams.
04:43 They've gone ahead in games and that has been that.
04:46 The stats back that up.
04:47 Leeds have won, I think it's seven or eight games this season,
04:50 which the last time I checked was the most in the division,
04:53 seven or eight games by a margin of three goals or more,
04:58 which just shows their dominance and their ability to keep their feet
05:02 on the throat of the opponent.
05:04 But I mean the story of the last couple of games has been facing a low block,
05:09 not being able to break them down, and the opposition growing in confidence
05:13 because they think, "You know what?
05:15 70 minutes, we're still in this game.
05:17 We can go and get a winner," which is obviously the tale of the tape
05:20 against Blackburn.
05:22 Sammy Smoddick's 30 goals all competitions this season.
05:26 You can't give him that much space.
05:28 I know it was on the counter.
05:29 I know Leeds were in defensive transition, but you can't give him that much space
05:36 for him to find the back of the net because he has just been scoring goals
05:39 like that all season.
05:41 Yeah, he was just left alone, wasn't he?
05:44 Ultimately, Blackburn are a very ordinary team with a very special player in attack.
05:50 They have a couple of good players.
05:51 Let's not be too disparaging.
05:56 I mean that ball put through by Dolan, was it, for the assist for the goal
06:00 was tremendous.
06:02 But I mean let's break the goal down.
06:05 It's one goal kick, one long goal kick.
06:08 Gallagher gets the run on Rodon to get the flick on,
06:12 and it's almost like that one moment has completely undone the Leeds defence
06:17 because Rodon's pulled out of there.
06:19 Byram gets pulled all the way from right to almost left by Dolan,
06:24 but doesn't affect him, doesn't win the individual duel,
06:29 doesn't stop him from turning to play that pass.
06:32 Archie Gray is tucked inside as well, as in towards the other side.
06:39 He's centre mid.
06:40 Ampadu can't really do anything about it.
06:43 That one pass has just unlocked them, and Smodic is in.
06:49 Once he was in, I think everyone in the stadium knew he was going to put this away.
06:54 That's what he's been doing relentlessly this season.
06:57 He's a goal machine.
07:01 Maybe it's recency bias, maybe it's seeing him on the Saturday,
07:04 but I went into Sunday's AFL Awards thinking, surely he's done enough.
07:08 The context of 30 goals in a season for this Blackburn side is remarkable.
07:15 First man to do it since Shearer did it for them.
07:18 Surely that's enough for AFL player of the season.
07:22 But then he came out on the losing side of that one.
07:28 It was bitterly disappointing from Leeds.
07:33 It begs the question, who's going to stand up now?
07:41 They've been shut out twice.
07:43 An attack that has been lauded all season long by opposition managers.
07:47 A Premier League attack?
07:48 How many times have we heard that they've got Premier League players up front?
07:52 Everyone calls Somerville a Premier League player.
07:54 Premier League athleticism.
07:56 Routier, they call a Premier League player.
08:01 N'Omto, they'd probably call him a Premier League player too.
08:04 He's an Italian international.
08:06 The youngest player ever to score for Italy.
08:08 You've got Dan James, 50 on capture for Wales.
08:11 Dan James has more pace than almost anyone in the division.
08:16 He'd probably be right up there, wouldn't he, for the quickest in the league.
08:20 And Jadon Anthony, who came from a Premier League club on loan.
08:26 Then you've got Patrick Bamford, who scored 17 in a Premier League season.
08:30 So there's a reason why opposition managers have been saying this all season,
08:34 other than just deflecting from their own team's problems.
08:40 Do you think there's been an issue with how Farke set the team up against
08:45 Low Blocks this season?
08:46 Because I've seen a lot of it is head loss because of the circumstances.
08:52 A lot of it is very reactionary.
08:56 I think it's important in our role that we don't always,
09:02 we simply don't react in the same way because you need to look at the bigger picture.
09:06 You need to consider that there are other factors at play.
09:09 But do you think that the approach when facing Low Blocks,
09:13 I'm thinking particularly when Leeds are chasing a game,
09:16 perhaps when they're 1-0 down, bringing on every available attacker
09:21 and basically congesting that middle of the park
09:25 whilst maintaining the width with the full backs and the wingers.
09:28 Is that something which, do you think it works?
09:32 Well, I don't know.
09:36 I guess the problem we have is that Leeds have been in control of so many games this season
09:42 that it really stands out when they're not in control of a game and they're chasing it.
09:46 Those examples are not, there's not masses of them,
09:51 but once we've seen a picture starts to emerge.
09:55 Now whether it's a completely fair picture or not, I don't know,
09:58 but it's a picture that's there.
10:00 I think back to Stoke away, Rotherham away, Sunderland at home,
10:07 Coventry away was probably another example, and of course Blackburn.
10:11 And there are other examples as well.
10:14 Coventry at Elland Road, in fact, Sunderland away from home.
10:19 Those games were not all entirely the same.
10:21 There are different varying degrees of chances created and chances missed
10:25 and mistakes made at the other end perhaps.
10:29 But again, let's talk about the Blackburn game.
10:32 It didn't feel to me like a goal was coming.
10:35 It felt like Somerville was being pretty much controlled,
10:40 controlled as well as I've seen him controlled for most of this season.
10:45 Crosses into the box were simply not going to yield a goal.
10:50 It wasn't happening.
10:51 Probably should have done.
10:52 Bamford should have scored that header I think,
10:55 just as he should have scored from across against Coventry
10:57 and maybe we're having a completely different conversation.
11:00 But he's not in form.
11:04 Nobody's stepping up with the bit of magic that,
11:07 the person that looked like this actually was Willy Nyonto
11:09 and he couldn't last the full 90.
11:11 But the picture that you got from the last stages of that game was
11:15 leads with a whole load of attackers on the pitch,
11:19 Archie Gray alone in midfield
11:22 and no real sign of them breaking Blackburn down.
11:27 Congested is the right word.
11:29 That in and around the penalty area was just bodies.
11:31 So, Routier couldn't do it and got hauled off.
11:36 And after that, you look at the squad and you think,
11:39 well, who is going to create that bit of space to slot someone through
11:45 and play someone in behind?
11:47 I don't know if Leeds had that player on the pitch.
11:50 I don't know if they had that midfielder on the pitch.
11:53 I don't know if they had space for anyone to do that on the pitch.
11:56 And then when the ball went wide, yeah,
11:59 it got crossed into the box a few times, but to no real avail.
12:02 And I do kind of agree with people who said it was predictable.
12:06 It was predictable.
12:08 You knew the ball was going to go wide and you knew it was going to get whipped into the box.
12:11 There was no variation.
12:13 I don't know if there was a possibility for a variation.
12:16 Is there an argument to say that Leeds don't actually have that midfield player?
12:20 Or at least they don't have that midfield player playing in midfield?
12:24 Yeah.
12:25 Because I'm looking at progressive passes.
12:28 OK, so progressive passes defined as a complete pass
12:33 that moves the ball towards the opponent's goal
12:36 at least 10 yards from its furthest point in the last six passes.
12:40 Basically, it's a forward pass.
12:42 The line-breaking passes that we've seen players make for decades,
12:47 that get slipped someone in behind,
12:50 it's not from the goalkeeper,
12:54 it's not within the defending 40% of the pitch.
12:57 It's from a position where you actually can tell the value of that pass.
13:00 It's the one which makes you sit up and go, "Right, we're on the attack now."
13:05 Leeds don't really have that player,
13:08 at least not playing in midfield.
13:11 Because you look at the numbers in the Championship this season,
13:14 you've got Matt Grimes, again, a player that Leeds fans will be familiar with.
13:18 He is someone who has recorded over 300 progressive passes.
13:22 Dan Neal at Sunderland.
13:24 Norwich's Gabriel Sarra.
13:26 He's one of the best players in the division.
13:29 He's very good at that.
13:30 Named in the Championship Team of the Year.
13:34 Kenny McLean, who is somebody who Leeds have been linked with in the past.
13:38 Harry Winks and Keenan Dewsbury-Hall, both of Leicester,
13:42 both making a lot of progressive passes.
13:45 Sam Morsi as well, of Ipswich.
13:48 You have to go all the way down to 16th until you reach Ethan Ampadu,
13:53 with 219.
13:54 He's Leeds' first representative, if you will, in that department.
13:58 He's been playing in defence, and it is technically easier
14:02 to make a progressive pass if you're a defender,
14:04 because your starting position is deeper.
14:07 So you're under less pressure, theoretically.
14:09 Then you come down to Glenn Kamara, who's 23rd in this list.
14:13 He's got 201 progressive passes.
14:15 Pretty much played 30 90s worth of games this season.
14:21 I just don't think they've got that, as you've been saying,
14:25 that person to slide them in.
14:28 Or at least not to the same standard as others in the league,
14:32 which does make things a problem when teams decide to set up
14:35 in a low block and really set up to frustrate.
14:39 Because you are doing all of that horseshoe passing,
14:43 and it's going round and around.
14:45 Ultimately, you end up relying on someone like Somerville
14:47 for a bit of magic.
14:49 He's not always going to produce that.
14:52 When he does, it's great, but it's not a guarantee.
14:55 We can come on to this, but you were suggesting,
14:59 is it necessary that Leeds maybe bring Ampadu
15:03 into the midfield to exploit that progressive passing?
15:07 That he can be that player?
15:10 I don't know. Do you sacrifice defensive solidity for that?
15:16 Yeah, it's a real conundrum.
15:19 I was thinking about it this morning, and I thought,
15:21 what if they put Ampadu back into midfield
15:25 and had him and Gray next to one another?
15:28 Bags of energy between the two of them,
15:30 bags of running, defensively very sound, I would imagine,
15:35 but with a fair bit of passing ability
15:38 and forward passing ability between the two of them.
15:42 Archie Gray can dribble it as well,
15:45 but that means you can't play Ampadu at centre-back.
15:49 Ampadu and Rodon have really been the bedrock
15:53 of what Leeds' challenge has been built on since January.
15:57 Those two, the consistency, the partnership,
16:01 the understanding, the covering for one another,
16:05 taking that away is a gamble.
16:09 I don't know if we're at –
16:12 I suppose if we're not at gambling territory now,
16:14 then when will we ever be?
16:17 I almost feel like Farker would rather draw these games
16:22 and go into the playoffs with a team
16:28 that still knows what it's doing,
16:30 knows that it's got the parts in place
16:33 and knows its roles and who's going to be playing where.
16:37 It's stable, I suppose, is the word I'm looking for,
16:40 rather than experiment now and things go horribly wrong
16:43 and then they crash into the playoffs in chaos,
16:47 nobody knowing who's going to start on a Saturday
16:49 and where they're going to start
16:51 and what that would likely bring.
16:56 It's a really difficult one because Ampadu and Rodon have been good for me,
17:01 really, really good.
17:03 It's almost like – I think we've probably said it before –
17:07 you want two Ampadus, you want one in the midfield
17:09 and you want one in defence,
17:11 but you can't split the boy in two, can you?
17:15 No, you can't.
17:16 I suppose this is where you miss Pascal Stroik
17:19 because he is somebody who is very good at progressing the ball from centre-back.
17:25 That's why Daniel Farker has reiterated that it is a disappointment
17:31 not having him available for the remainder of the season,
17:34 but ultimately that's a decision which has been made
17:36 and they've got to react and adapt to it.
17:41 Just throw me off there a little bit.
17:43 On video, if you're watching this,
17:45 it appears you have the same mug as me.
17:47 I very much dyed it because mine…
17:49 No, that's the same design.
17:51 Oh, yeah. Go on, show me your mug.
17:55 No, it's in the cupboard.
17:58 Actually, hold on. Put that close to the camera.
18:01 I'm just trying to make sure that none of the bad words…
18:04 Oh, right. Okay, no, that's completely different.
18:06 Mine has a lot of football shirts on it.
18:09 From there, I thought they were football shirts.
18:12 No, mine says things like 'keeper lit', 'shirt will be grand',
18:16 'wind your neck in', 'you boy ye', 'dead on'.
18:21 'What about ye'?
18:23 So it is. 'What about ye', 'aye right', stuff like that.
18:27 Just in touch with my roots, very in touch with my…
18:30 Do you look at that mug every morning
18:32 just so you can play up to the stereotypes?
18:35 Yes.
18:37 Keep yourself fresh.
18:40 We haven't had a pod, have we, since Gerard Dallas's retirement?
18:45 No, we haven't, no.
18:47 Obviously, we recorded last Wednesday, I believe,
18:50 and that afternoon was when it was all announced.
18:54 Obviously, a very moving half-time against Blackburn
18:59 with him coming onto the pitch with his family.
19:02 Great reception from Ellen Road.
19:04 Can't imagine that there'll have been too many pints sold
19:08 or burgers consumed in the concourse,
19:10 as everybody was obviously very keen to show their respect for Dallas
19:15 and what he's done for the club.
19:18 Yeah, I mean, what do you make of the situation?
19:21 I know people might think, okay, it's time to move on,
19:23 but he definitely deserves a segment on this podcast,
19:27 considering that you are the Northern Irish representative now of Leeds United.
19:34 [LAUGHS]
19:36 I think Charlie Allen might have something to say about that.
19:39 Yeah, it was very, very sad.
19:42 We knew that we were going up to Thorpe Arch last Wednesday afternoon
19:45 and we had an inkling of what it would be,
19:47 but Leeds didn't confirm until…
19:52 I think they wanted to allow Stuart to announce it
19:56 in the way he wanted to,
19:57 which was with a club announcement and a letter to the fans.
20:02 And so they held off on telling the players
20:05 because players then talk to family members,
20:09 players talk to agents, people talk as they do,
20:13 and then suddenly it's out there and it's being announced on Twitter
20:18 before he gets a chance to say it.
20:20 So they put together the announcement, we got that under embargo,
20:24 and we went up to Thorpe Arch to interview him.
20:28 You could sense how emotional the day had been.
20:33 We were told that he'd had a meeting with the team
20:37 and that had been really hard, and we spoke to him about that
20:40 and he said he'd been dreading that.
20:42 In fact, when he came and sat down, he said,
20:43 "Go easy on me today, boys, I'm a bit fragile."
20:46 I've never, ever seen Stuart Dallas in that emotional state.
20:55 He's always one of those that will have something to say
21:00 that is likely mocking you.
21:05 Or perhaps calling you upside down head.
21:09 No, he would never say that.
21:13 Like when we were in Spain and I was trying to record a Facebook Live
21:17 to keep the bosses happy for digital engagement
21:20 and Dallas happened to come across and was saying stuff like,
21:26 "Who's he talking to there?" loudly in the background.
21:31 And he would always say, "Oh, the Vultures are here,"
21:33 when we arrived at Thorpe Arch, quite correctly categorising journalists
21:39 as what we are.
21:43 But he was still Stuart Dallas and he was still in good form,
21:47 but you could sense that he was very emotional.
21:50 His reasoning for retiring is perfectly understandable
21:56 after the gruelling two years that he's had.
21:58 It has been nightmarish.
22:02 I think others would have, I don't want to use terms like gone under,
22:08 but I don't think they'd have quite been able to keep going
22:13 as relentlessly as he did through that rehab and through the seven surgeries
22:18 without completely losing their heads.
22:21 Because he's been denied doing what it is that he loves to do.
22:26 And as a footballer especially, when you're not able to do that,
22:29 you just feel like a bit of a spare part around the club.
22:32 You're just stuck in the monotony of in the gym again today,
22:35 in the gym again today.
22:37 You don't even get out on the grass for most of it.
22:40 So he's really been through it.
22:43 I think the most striking thing that he said for me was that at some point
22:48 the goal changed from getting back to playing football
22:52 to just being healthy and mobile, I think, is the implication
22:58 for life after football because he's a young man, he's got a young family,
23:03 and the focus became.
23:05 And that's how serious the damage was from this collision.
23:10 You're really talking about will he be up and around,
23:15 never mind chasing after championship defenders this season,
23:20 will he be mobile enough for everyday life?
23:23 And that really brings it home, I think.
23:26 We would often get people getting a bit frustrated because we hadn't asked
23:31 about Dallas because I think they were clinging to a hope
23:34 that he would reappear.
23:36 I just don't think it was going to happen.
23:38 When he got back to team training, I think that was maybe another marker
23:46 along the road to retirement that what he would need,
23:50 where he would need to get to to be able to compete
23:53 was just beyond his body's capability.
23:56 So, yeah, very, very sad.
23:58 But it was pleasing that the club dealt with it the way they did
24:02 and gave him that chance at half-time.
24:04 I was a bit concerned, actually, that people would head out
24:08 and he wouldn't get the same reception as if he did it before the game.
24:12 But I think people did him justice, didn't they?
24:15 And maybe that was never in doubt, that people hold him
24:19 in such high esteem that they wanted a chance to say thanks
24:23 and not quite goodbye because he's still around for the rest of the season.
24:27 I imagine he'll be around in the Leeds United sphere
24:31 for a long, long time.
24:33 But it was a nice moment on Saturday.
24:36 It feels almost like, I imagine for Dallas,
24:39 that a weight has been lifted because he's got this off his chest.
24:43 Watching back through the interviews that have been put out
24:49 and from listening to your chat with him and the rest of the Leeds press pack,
24:54 he does genuinely sound as though he is grateful
25:00 that he is able to just be walking around.
25:03 Again, as you say, that paints a picture as just to how horrific
25:07 the injury must have been.
25:09 He's been very forthright in saying,
25:12 if he turns 33 next month or whatever,
25:16 even if he was 21, he wouldn't have been able to carry on
25:20 just because of the nature and the complexities of the issue.
25:24 It has been apparent for some time that that would be the case.
25:32 But I think we have to commend the club in the way that they dealt with it,
25:38 as you said, because there's a right way to do things like that.
25:44 I think they got the tone absolutely spot on.
25:46 >> Yeah. I mean, this wasn't--
25:48 Do you remember the reaction when they did the t-shirts after he had the injury?
25:53 There were a lot of people very, very cynical, I suppose,
26:00 is one word to put it, about that gesture.
26:02 It just wasn't quite the right thing.
26:05 This, however, felt right.
26:07 And relief, I think you're spot on there with relief
26:09 because I suppose that this has been in the back of his head for a long time.
26:13 It's something that he'll have been wrestling with and agonising over
26:15 and holding off and hoping that it wouldn't come to this
26:19 and thinking, "I'll give it one more shot.
26:21 I'll give it another shot. I'll give it a bit longer."
26:25 I suppose that battle's now done in his head
26:27 and he can now start to focus his energy on what next,
26:31 rather than thinking, "What if it's what next?"
26:35 He's already-- I mean, yesterday he was doing the draw
26:37 for the under-19 Euros, wasn't he, for Northern Ireland?
26:42 And I imagine he's got a few ideas of things that he'll want to do
26:47 and a few possibilities.
26:48 I know Michael O'Neill at Northern Ireland absolutely loves him to bits,
26:53 just as he does Steve Davis.
26:54 And Steve Davis was almost instantly involved
26:57 in the Northern Ireland backroom staff as soon as he retired.
27:01 I think he was part of the coaching group for the last international break
27:07 and for the Scotland game.
27:09 It wouldn't surprise me at all to see Dallas involved in some sense
27:13 with Northern Ireland.
27:14 Equally, could you see him going down the coaching route at Thorpe Arch?
27:19 It's a possibility.
27:20 Leeds are discussing with him a potential role.
27:24 I think at the very least he'll have an ambassadorial role, won't he,
27:27 that'll be available to him if he so wants that.
27:31 - As you said at the beginning,
27:33 as you said, he is somebody with bags of personality.
27:37 He does fit that ambassadorial role like a glove.
27:42 At the very least, he'd be able to do that.
27:45 And I think as well from a coaching perspective,
27:48 few players have had a route to the top,
27:50 literally to the Premier League, to European Championships quite like him.
27:55 So in terms of imparting wisdom and knowing what's required
28:00 to go that extra yard, to take your own game to the next level
28:06 as he did under Bielsa, there are very few who are better placed
28:11 than Stuart Dallas to be able to speak to the next generation of players
28:15 at Thorpe Arch.
28:16 So I think there's a lot of options open to him.
28:20 I do think, as you say, the future is very positive for him.
28:24 He can put this chapter to one side.
28:26 He has had an excellent career, playing career that is.
28:30 But who's to say he can't go on and do even more
28:35 with an association to Leeds?
28:37 And I think that's something which a lot of fans
28:39 will take solace from as well.
28:41 Yes.
28:42 When you think about the career he's had,
28:45 he didn't have the luxury of an academy upbringing,
28:51 part-time footballer, part-time joiner before he came across to England.
28:57 But it's Bielsa, isn't it, that's the key to Stuart Dallas
29:02 actually reaching the height that he did.
29:04 He was a very, very talented player, Stuart Dallas,
29:07 and there's no doubt that he was a good player before Bielsa came.
29:12 But what Bielsa transformed him into by putting those demands on him
29:17 for the physicality that was required for either full-back
29:21 or for centre-mid or left-back or wing or wherever he played him.
29:25 And Dallas really bought into that.
29:27 And I think one without the other wouldn't have worked.
29:31 Had Dallas not been willing to, like Cooper, ditch the alcohol
29:35 that summer when Bielsa came in to get themselves into the shape
29:38 they needed to be in to play his football,
29:40 then he wouldn't have been the player he was.
29:42 And equally, had Bielsa not had a group of players
29:46 who were actually willing to say, 'You know what?
29:48 We'll subject ourselves to this madness and we'll do the sacrifice
29:54 in order to make ourselves the machines that we need to be,'
29:59 then Leeds wouldn't have had the success they did.
30:02 It needed the genius of Bielsa and his unbelievable demands,
30:07 and it needed the attitude in the dressing room.
30:10 And Leeds just so happened to have a dressing room
30:12 that had that kind of character in it, and Dallas was one of those.
30:16 And then the result was just sensational, wasn't it?
30:20 When you think of some of the moments that Dallas was involved in
30:23 and the team that he was involved in, and the Man City thing
30:27 is something that no one will ever be able to take from him.
30:31 I mean, he was talking about how his sons were showing him
30:33 those goals on the iPad last week, and my personal highlight of that game
30:41 was that we were sat directly behind the Man City bench,
30:44 and Kyle Walker and Benjamin Mendy were--it's really hard to describe,
30:51 but they were like hyenas.
30:55 Man City were piling on the pressure, and they were squealing
30:58 and comically screaming, and you could tell that they fully expected
31:04 their teammates to score a goal.
31:06 It was almost like fun to them.
31:08 It was almost like training to them.
31:10 They were watching their pals in training.
31:13 And when Dallas sprinted away and Aliaski found him,
31:18 and John Stones, who had--Leeds had basically said,
31:22 "Let Stones have the ball and carry it, and then we'll engage him
31:25 35 yards from goal."
31:27 Stones had done a lot of running in that game and a lot of ball carrying
31:31 and had a lot of influence, and he couldn't stick with Dallas.
31:35 He couldn't get to the ball to make it--to affect a challenge on Dallas.
31:40 And so Dallas got to the area.
31:41 He stuck the ball in the net.
31:42 He wheeled away.
31:44 And Mandy and Walker and everyone else on the Man City bench just shut up.
31:51 Like they were just silenced, and it was just--it was an incredible moment.
31:55 Just the sheer balls of it to say, "We're not going to cling
32:00 to this 1-1 draw, and I'm not going to sit in and be hard to beat.
32:05 I'm going to go and win this," was just absolutely incredible for me,
32:10 and it embodied that entire period under Bale, so that entire season
32:14 in the prem when they finished top half.
32:18 And a lot of players have very, very, very good careers,
32:21 but never have a highlight, like a personal highlight like that,
32:25 scoring two goals at the Etihad against the champions
32:29 and beating them with 10 men for a lot of that game.
32:33 It's just something that a lot of people won't be able to say.
32:35 And European Championships as well is just--I know how much it meant to me
32:39 to watch Northern Ireland in a major tournament,
32:43 first one since '86. I was three in '86, and lived all my life up to then
32:50 with a couple of near misses, but most of the time thinking,
32:53 "Summer international football is just not for me.
32:57 It's not going to be for me. I'm just going to have to pick a team
33:00 that I quite like and follow them and hope that England gets
33:04 to the quarterfinals and lose on penalties and all of that."
33:06 And yet there we were in 2016, and doing things as well.
33:13 It was just--
33:14 I remember the Ukraine game. That was great when--
33:16 was it McAuley scored in the last minute?
33:18 Or in stoppage time?
33:19 McAuley was a big stupid header, yeah, but wasn't there another goal
33:24 in that game? Didn't Dallas take a shot from outside the area,
33:26 and then McGinn, it might have been, stuck in the rebound?
33:30 I think we might have won that game 2-1.
33:35 Or was that the first goal?
33:36 No, you're doing a disservice. Actually, that game was 2-0.
33:39 It was McGinn in the 96th minute who scored,
33:42 and it was McAuley in the 49th.
33:44 Yeah, Dallas-- McGinnis, one of Dallas's best friends,
33:49 came out the corner with a lovely turn, beat a defender,
33:53 the kind of thing you almost wouldn't expect from a big lumbering
33:56 centre forward. He pulls the ball back, Dallas takes a shot
34:00 from the edge of the area, Keeper palms it out, McGinn's there
34:02 to stick it in, just sheer ecstasy.
34:05 It was like-- that tournament was incredible for those weird turns,
34:11 or fantastic turns by players you wouldn't expect.
34:14 Do you remember Hal Robson-Kanu doing that against Belgium?
34:17 Yeah.
34:18 He just basically sent the entire Belgium defence--
34:21 The wrong way.
34:22 He sent them packing in the opposite direction.
34:24 That was incredible. That was a great tournament.
34:26 That was really, really good.
34:28 It wasn't so good that we lost to Wales, I have to say,
34:32 to an own goal as well. I didn't enjoy that.
34:36 But the tournament, even just qualifying, it was like sitting down
34:42 to watch your favourite thing, because international summer football
34:45 is the best thing in the sport.
34:48 The World Cups are the best thing in the sport,
34:50 so sitting down to watch one in the middle of the day
34:53 or whatever it was, and it's actually your country
34:57 and your team that you put on a pedestal and love
35:00 beyond all other things in the sport, was just amazing.
35:04 So Dallas and every other player who made that happen,
35:07 they have a very, very special place in Northern Irish people's hearts,
35:10 I think.
35:12 Which group are Northern Ireland in at this year's Euros?
35:16 So shall we talk about Middlesbrough then?
35:19 [LAUGHS]
35:21 Oh, man. It never gets old.
35:23 I'll tell you what, in the nature of just having a bit of joshing,
35:28 do you think that with, obviously, the relationship that
35:32 Liam Cooper and Stuart Dallas have together,
35:34 can you imagine the ribbon that Cooper got in the dressing room
35:37 after they won 2-1 at Man City from Dallas?
35:40 Being like, "You got sent off, you put us right in it,
35:43 and I had to go and salvage something.
35:45 I got two goals for the boys."
35:47 He will never, ever hear the end of that.
35:50 I'll tell you what, I think he's probably glad.
35:53 Those two have a very, very special relationship, don't they?
35:56 That video, I don't know...
36:00 Even if you are the most cynical, hardened Liam Cooper hater in the world,
36:06 and he does have his critics, he has lots of them,
36:09 and some of them, I think, go way beyond what is reasonable
36:13 given what he's achieved at Leeds,
36:15 but that video of him standing up next to Dallas,
36:18 who was struggling to get his words out because of the tears,
36:21 as he was telling the team, and then standing next to him in support,
36:25 it's just... that goes beyond the kind of...
36:30 When people say, "Get on really well with everyone,
36:32 get on with all the boys, the boys are great,"
36:34 it goes so far beyond... that's genuine friendship, isn't it?
36:37 Yes, it's not team-mate camaraderie anymore, is it?
36:40 No, it's beyond that, and Dallas says that Cooper is more like a brother to him
36:44 than a pal, and I think Liam was quite emotional again
36:47 on Saturday, standing at the tunnel,
36:49 applauding as Stewart did his lap of honour,
36:52 and then they had a big embrace.
36:55 It's nice, actually.
36:56 When you see a player go through something like what Stewart has gone through
36:59 and the retirement that he's going to go through,
37:02 it is good to know that they've got a good support network around them,
37:07 and I think that's a great comfort to anyone who holds Dallas
37:11 in any kind of affection.
37:14 Yes, so you've turned this into a Northern Ireland podcast,
37:17 but we'll move on back to Leeds United.
37:21 No, what we should do is a breakout podcast every other week
37:26 inside Winter Park podcast.
37:28 [laughter]
37:30 Oh, man. No, no. We're not doing that.
37:33 [laughter]
37:34 In fact, you know what? Because of how many times you like to tell people
37:38 that you are actually the host on this podcast,
37:40 do you want to do the hosting and the editing and the producing
37:43 and doing all the clips?
37:45 You can do that for Winter Park or inside Winter Park.
37:49 Well, we'll talk about that.
37:52 Okay.
37:53 I'll let you introduce the next bit.
37:56 Yes, I'm sure we'll talk about that, like when you bump into someone
37:58 that you haven't seen in ages.
38:00 You don't really want to spend any time with them one-on-one,
38:02 but you say, "Yes, we'll catch up.
38:04 Yes, just drop me a message. Yes, we'll catch up,"
38:07 and then that message never comes and you are relieved.
38:12 Right, next section of the podcast.
38:14 I'm not really sure how to follow that.
38:16 That was a nice little segment.
38:19 Middlesbrough on Monday night.
38:22 Yeah, I mean, which team do you play?
38:25 If you had to go 1-11 right now, I don't want to hear any explanations
38:29 as to why, not too much chin-stroking.
38:34 I just want to know that you're 1-11 for Monday night.
38:38 Okay.
38:40 Melie, Roberts, Firpo, Cooper, Rodon, Ampadu Gray, N'Yonto, Somerville,
38:57 Routier, Joseph.
39:00 Ooh, okay. Right.
39:03 Interesting, very interesting.
39:05 I'm going to go with Melie, Roberts, Ampadu, Rodon, Firpo,
39:13 Gruave Gray, Somerville, N'Yonto, Routier, and Joseph as well.
39:23 Yeah, I can't argue with you.
39:25 I'm keeping Ampadu at centre-half. I just think...
39:28 Yeah, your team's better. Actually, I should have had Gruave.
39:31 I've literally thrown Gruave out.
39:33 Do you mean in real life as well?
39:35 No, I just mean, yeah, my head's gone, and I've thrown Gruave
39:42 out with the bathwater, haven't I?
39:44 Yeah, you have. What's he ever done to you apart from give you a nice...
39:47 I've not held in mind his significant influence for the team.
39:54 I've probably done him a massive disservice, but I don't know.
39:57 Sometimes I think just wouldn't it be exciting if something different
40:01 happened, you know?
40:04 Yeah, I tell you what would be exciting.
40:06 If Leeds had won the last couple of games and this was all wrapped up
40:10 and we could go into the last three games with no anxieties,
40:16 and I could go into the Algarve in May when the playoffs are on
40:22 and just watch from a little beachside cabana and just think,
40:26 "Ah, that could have been us, but it's not. I'm here instead."
40:30 Instead, there's the likelihood that Leeds are going to be at
40:34 Carrow Road, for example.
40:37 I don't want to be in Norwich.
40:39 I don't want to go to Norwich, Graeme.
40:41 I said it four times, okay?
40:43 I know, and it's 12.30 kick-off on a Sunday as well.
40:46 It couldn't really be any worse.
40:50 Yeah, it's really hard to know what's going to happen, isn't it?
40:53 I mean, you'll have lots of people very, very confidently predicting
40:56 that Leeds are going to blow this, and they're not going to finish
40:59 in the top two.
41:00 That's a very easy position to take because you're not going to look
41:04 like a mug if Leeds finish in the top two because you're going to be part
41:09 of the celebrations.
41:10 You're going to be absolutely over the moon that you were wrong,
41:12 and you'll probably put out a funny tweet, "Well, how wrong was I?
41:15 So glad to be wrong."
41:16 If you take the other position and say confidently,
41:19 "Leeds are going to finish second.
41:20 Leeds are going to finish in the top three because they're going to return
41:25 to the form that kept them unbeaten for three months
41:28 and that relentless 13 out of 15 wins, and all it's going to take is to get
41:34 the first goal against Borough, and they'll be set,
41:37 and everyone else's wobbles will continue and Leeds won't,"
41:39 that really puts you out on a limb because when you predict something good
41:43 is going to happen, if it happens, no one really cares or remembers.
41:48 They're too busy getting hammered.
41:49 If it doesn't happen, you look like an absolute twerp,
41:53 and everyone will be queuing up to tell you.
41:57 So it's a much safer position to adopt, the negative position, I think.
42:01 That's why a lot of people assume it because it's more comfortable,
42:05 and it probably feels more comfortable as well when the club has actually,
42:09 outside of the Bielsa period, had just so much disappointment.
42:13 Easier not to get hurt, isn't it, if you expect the worst?
42:16 Yeah. I mean, the Leeds' record in the playoffs is obviously very,
42:21 I don't know, what would you say?
42:24 Very Leeds.
42:25 Yeah, very Leeds.
42:27 When I was at the EFL Awards on Sunday night,
42:31 I was chatting to my counterpart at Ipswich,
42:36 and I just get the feeling that they, out of the four,
42:47 out of the top four, they're the ones with the least pressure
42:51 and expectation.
42:52 They're the ones with the least number of fans doing their nut, I think,
42:55 at this recent wobble because nobody expected them to be here.
43:03 Maybe Kieran McKenna did and a few of his players.
43:07 I think if you asked Ipswich fans right back at the start of the season,
43:11 when Leeds beat them, were they really thinking,
43:15 "We're going to be leading it with three games to go.
43:20 We're going to be at the front of the wagon"?
43:23 I don't think they would have believed that.
43:26 I really don't.
43:27 And therefore, they found themselves in a position where, yeah,
43:31 they've dropped a few points lately, but they're still right in there
43:34 with the possibility of making this an unbelievable season.
43:38 Whereas Leicester have been unhappy for ages.
43:42 Like, we had, even during their good times,
43:46 we had friction between the manager and the fans.
43:49 Leeds had it good for so long, and now that at this point,
43:55 everything's a bit shaky, people are in panic, full-blown panic mode,
44:00 and could be sent into full-blown meltdown mode on Monday night
44:04 if Borough beat them.
44:07 So I think Ipswich are in the prime emotional state of the teams.
44:15 Maybe Southampton, you could argue, but there's expectation on them
44:18 too, because they were relegated.
44:21 They have some very, very good players in that squad
44:25 and very experienced players and probably should be in the top three,
44:30 really, shouldn't they, with the squad they've got.
44:33 So I would say Ipswich have it best right now.
44:37 Yeah, you're right.
44:38 I mean, they're top of the table, so I'm curious as to how you came
44:42 to that conclusion.
44:46 What I'm saying is they're not feeling the pressure of being chased,
44:50 are they?
44:51 They're not thinking, "Oh, bloody hell, we're top.
44:53 We might throw this away."
44:55 That's not the mindset.
44:57 Well, no, because they've not been up into the Premier League
44:59 for what is it, near enough 20-odd years, and I think it's more than 20 years,
45:04 so they don't really know what they're missing out on sort of thing,
45:07 whereas another season in the Championship,
45:09 it's not the end of the world for them, certainly not financially.
45:13 It's, yeah, everything is coming up Ipswich as long as they, you know,
45:19 are able to win some of their last games, which are, if I'm not mistaken,
45:23 Hull, Coventry, and Huddersfield.
45:27 Should be interesting.
45:28 Do you want to talk about those games or do you want to talk about the
45:32 remaining games or do you want to tell us how you got dolled up to the nines
45:36 at the EFL Awards and who you managed to speak to, who you networked with,
45:40 who you mingled alongside, whether you were rubbing shoulders
45:45 with your great friend in broadcasting, Ian "Broadcast" Moose.
45:49 I don't even know what his surname is.
45:51 Is it Abraham?
45:54 Yes, Ian Abrahams.
45:57 You know, a very good friend, of course.
46:00 Let the record show that Graeme is a huge fan of his work.
46:06 What was the EFL Awards like at the Grosvenor House Hotel in London?
46:11 In fact, this will tell me how much of an occasion you thought it was.
46:15 Did you wear your specs or was it a contact lens night?
46:19 Oh, no, my contacts are reserved solely for Monday night football.
46:25 So I don't wear them.
46:28 Yeah, it was a good do.
46:31 I mistakenly had the impression that it'd be a big ballroom.
46:36 It was a big ballroom.
46:38 My impression was that the journalists would have an area or a table
46:42 or whatever and then maybe a little room to the side to interview,
46:45 to take people and interview them after they won so that you're part
46:49 of the event, not in the event, but part of the event.
46:52 I mean, I guess I should have read the signs when it said
46:57 the dress code is black tie for the event.
47:00 Note, black tie is not necessary for working journalists
47:04 or working media.
47:06 I should have--I mean, it said like no trainers or whatever,
47:08 but I should have got the memo.
47:11 Also, can we ever just put an end to ambiguity in dress codes?
47:16 Because then I'm thinking, well, do journalists even wear suits?
47:21 Do they just go with a shirt?
47:23 Do they wear tuxedos anyway?
47:25 Will it look pretentious if you turn up in a tuxedo?
47:27 Or will you look like you stand out like a sore thumb if you don't?
47:30 I had all that insecurity going on.
47:32 In the end, just went for a suit with a tie, black suit with a tie,
47:37 dark purple tie.
47:39 Looked great, to be honest.
47:41 And then other journalists were similarly attired, like, you know,
47:46 jacket and shirt with an open collar or a suit but not a tuxedo.
47:52 [music]