Booky Podcast: Episode 3 - Will Carver
Nicola's guest on this episode of Booky is crime and thriller writer, Will Carver - the author of the January David series and the original Detective Pace series.
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00:00 [Music]
00:06 Welcome to episode three of Bookie, your new friendly snob-free podcast brought to you by
00:12 National World, the publisher of some of your favourite local news brands, from the Sunderland
00:16 Echo to the Chorley Guardian, from the Nottingham World to Yorkshire Post. I'm journalist, editor and
00:22 writer Nicola Adam and this pod is for chatting to authors of all genres about writing, about reading
00:29 and the highs and the lows of their careers. So far on this series I've chatted to the wonderful
00:34 best-selling author Millie Johnson and also broadcast journalist and political speech writer
00:40 turned author of some hundred books, Joanna Nadine. Make sure to download those and get comfy with a
00:46 broom. Today's guest on Bookie is crime and thriller writer Will Carver. He's the straight-talking
00:54 international best-selling author of the January David series and the original Detective Pace
01:00 series. His novel Nothing Important Happened Today was long listed for both the Goldsboro Books
01:06 Glassbell Award 2020 and Theakston Old Peculiar, crime novel of the year. Hinton Hollow Death Trip
01:14 was long listed for Guardians, not the Booker Prize no less, and was followed by four standalone
01:20 critically acclaimed literary thrillers. Will also hosts a popular podcast Let's Get Lit with
01:26 S.J. Watson. He hails from Reading in Berkshire and his new book Upstairs at the Beresford is out now.
01:33 This is Bookie. So we've timed this very well because your new book is coming out tomorrow,
01:41 just tell us a little bit about that to start with. Okay it's called Upstairs at the Beresford,
01:47 it's the prequel to a book I had about three years ago called The Beresford which was,
01:53 that was about an apartment building where people die and then 60 seconds later the doorbell rings
02:01 and their room gets filled up with a new guest. And this new book sees the Beresford in its
02:09 previous incantation as a hotel which is kind of working in a similar way. Something happens to
02:16 someone in a room, 60 seconds later it's filled with a new guest and but we find that someone in
02:22 the penthouse, sweet Mr. Balliol, is he has a room filled with screens and he watches everybody's
02:29 everybody's room. He knows everyone's business and something is afoot on the seventh floor. It's the
02:37 yeah that's kind of a playground for wrongdoing. Yes so that's what it's about.
02:45 I can already feel myself hiding behind the sofa and not wanting to book in any hotels in the future.
02:50 Yes. So let's rewind, let's talk about how for you all of this got started because I know that
02:59 you kind of started out as a I think and quite random aside a rugby player is that right?
03:04 This is true yes yeah I had a professional contract before I went to university. I was
03:13 playing for Bath and but I wanted to become a writer and I thought if I become a sportsman
03:19 then no one will take my writing seriously. So I kind of didn't pursue that and instead just
03:25 waited 10 years to be published which was stupid now looking back you know. I think I was probably
03:31 more likely now to get a deal as a successful sportsman. So yeah I kind of I went to university,
03:37 I studied theatre, I set up a theatre company. I kind of thought I was going down that route and
03:42 then I wrote a book after I finished university and yeah it was pretty much my first book got me
03:50 an agent and then my second book got me a deal. So yeah and what kind of led you down the road
03:58 of the kind because all of your books are quite dark aren't they? They're you know it's thriller
04:02 or sort of noir-esque or how did you sort of go down that road? Well I think I think I've
04:11 when I started writing I was kind of like a young angry young man you know. I was just I was pissed
04:17 off with the world at something or everything and my way of getting that out was through writing and
04:23 often I use the books to kind of write my way out of stuff that's going on in my life as well and
04:31 you know Good Samaritans which was five six years ago now it's kind of it's about a very
04:38 dysfunctional relationship and this guy who has insomnia, he can't sleep at night and I've suffered
04:43 with that since I was 18 like I you know three hours a night is good it's a good time and yeah
04:50 I kind of wrote that to kind of deal with the things I was going through. I think you know the
04:55 world isn't a nice place, it's not always easy to write nice things if you're kind of tapped into
05:02 to what's going on. You know you can I understand this kind of love for the cozy crime at the moment
05:08 because people just want to escape and all the horror that's going on in the world they just
05:13 want something that's kind of nice and twee and gentle whereas I prefer to kind of attack it
05:20 and talk about the things that are going on so yeah I think that's why I go a bit dark. I try
05:26 to put some humour in there to kind of you know balance it a bit otherwise it's too much like I'm
05:30 just hitting you in the face for 300 pages you know. You think a lot of your ideas stem out of
05:35 your experiences, I don't mean you write exactly what happened but you know they inspire you to
05:40 to for the plots and for the characters and the people that you see in your everyday life.
05:46 Oh definitely I think in Upstairs at the Beresford there is one character in there who
05:55 does remind me quite a lot of an old boss I had before I became a writer and I was
06:01 selling computers and he yeah he wasn't the greatest guy and so yeah I kind of I think I wrote
06:09 what I would love to have happened to him when I was back working in an office. So yeah I think
06:17 of course you pick up these things and you know people say write what you know don't they and
06:24 I think yeah I think that's what I do. So one of the you mentioned that you know you you kind of
06:30 had the 10-year period where you were like trying to write and trying to get the book out and be
06:34 seen really. How did you you make that it sounds so breezy when oh you know I wrote a book and then
06:41 I got a deal and you know it sounds so easy which obviously it wasn't. What do you think is there a
06:46 point at which you thought right okay this is this is me I can make this my career. Where did you hit
06:53 that? I'd love to I'd love to feel that way I'm not even sure I feel that now. I yes I think a lot
07:02 of people end up doing kind of eight or nine books before they even get you know an agent and it's
07:08 and it's a real slog so I was kind of I was very lucky in that sense that my first one
07:12 got me an agent but I was working like I said selling computers and software. I went to a
07:19 software company and they made me redundant and but I hadn't been there that long so I had about
07:26 a month six weeks of money and I had my first child on the way and I thought if I don't do this
07:33 now I am I'm gonna end up selling computers for the rest of my life and so I kind of I sat down
07:41 and six weeks I wrote what eventually became Girl 4 which was my first my first published book.
07:47 So yeah I think I did it through fear really that's that was that was the impetus that got
07:53 me there it's just like if I don't do it now it's gonna be really really hard to do it after
07:58 that when I've got a kid and then I've got to try and find another job because I didn't have one.
08:02 So yeah that's how it happened just I was scared and I wrote a book really quickly and it turned
08:11 out to be pretty good and they wanted it to turn it into a series so yeah luck fear and luck that's
08:19 how I did it. And do you think you mentioned like having children having a family and all this thing
08:24 do you think that's kind of has that affected what you write I mean obviously it will have affected
08:29 how you write and how you form your day and that sort of thing but how well it has it affected that
08:35 the substance of your your work do you think the way you view the world perhaps?
08:39 Oh definitely I think it completely changed me becoming a dad but certainly with writing I can't
08:47 I can't do anything where anything I can't write anything where something horrible happens to a
08:52 kid I just can't do it there's lots of books out there that that do it and I just can't do it
08:58 because I think of my own kids so I have done one where where something happened to a small boy
09:05 but this at the time I only had one girl so I was like okay this is definitely not her it's a boy
09:10 so yeah I couldn't do anything like that but yeah I guess it does change the way you view
09:17 the world when you become a parent so I think yeah it definitely yeah it did change me yeah.
09:25 So I've been asking everybody this what what's the sort of biggest challenge you feel that you've had
09:31 to overcome personally and professionally during your writing career it might be something you
09:36 sort of didn't expect came along with the job sort of thing? Well I think one of the hardest
09:46 things is that is the stuff you have to do that it isn't writing so all the social media all the
09:51 pushing your book I don't want to tell people that I think my book's good you know I know you
09:56 sound like a pompous idiot yeah buy my book it's great I don't want to do that so I find I find
10:01 that stuff quite difficult but I think I'd had three books published with Random House and the
10:08 third one hadn't done as well as they'd like and and they just dropped me and so I had I had three
10:17 years without an agent without a publisher and I had to get published again and and being Will
10:25 Carver from before didn't help me it wasn't helping me anywhere so I think that was that was a really
10:30 difficult time like three years I was just I still wrote probably four books in that time
10:34 and yeah I mean I didn't know what I was going to do someone had given me my my ideal job and then
10:43 taken it away so I mean it was absolutely devastating that is the hardest thing I I had
10:49 to do in my in my writing career was I had to get published twice and yeah yeah essentially I had to
10:56 find a new agent who wanted me because I could say oh I've had three books published I like it but
11:00 why aren't you published now why would we want you you know so I had to yeah so I've basically
11:06 I've been published twice yeah I think that's something that um is coming across as a common
11:10 thing that a lot of people don't really think like once you've conquered that mountain of writing
11:14 that book and getting published and getting an agent perhaps you know you might only be in that
11:18 for two two books or you know um yeah you might only be tied in and then you're kind of out out
11:23 in the cold potentially again and it's not doesn't mean career made so I think it's that kind of
11:28 resilience that authors need in order to keep going yeah yeah definitely and it's harder and
11:36 harder I mean it's changed in the last in the last 10 years everything is so different to when I
11:42 started out 99p ebooks yes weren't around when I started and they are now and I think they impact
11:50 the industry hugely so yeah there's a lot more to contend with now
12:06 Have you got an author or maybe somebody in the industry that really inspires you
12:10 um maybe somebody you read all the time or somebody you come in contact with all the time
12:16 who do you think is sort of that kind of north star person for you who you really admire
12:23 well well I have two I think um so Chuck Polanek who wrote Fight Club is for me I kind of look up
12:32 to him all the time and I get compared with him quite a lot over here um because I think he's my
12:38 biggest influence so you can see it in my writing that I'm I'm a fan of his and and I still love
12:44 that he's still putting books out that are different every time and just the way he writes is
12:50 is that's what I'm aiming for every time I finish a book I think oh have I got close to him um and
12:56 then my other one is Sarah Pimbrough who wrote uh Behind Her Eyes that was made into a Netflix show
13:03 she we became friends kind of back back in the day when I was starting out and I used to sell a lot
13:09 more books than she did um that's all changed um but again she is like that she writes what she
13:16 wants um and she's she's so hard working like anytime I talk to her she's just like I'm so
13:21 busy at the moment I'm so busy and I think I love that because yes there's a degree of luck in in
13:28 this industry to to making it onto the next level of the next level next level but working your butt
13:35 off is is is is something that you need as well and and you know I try to do that I I write more
13:43 than one book a year two sometimes three um you know I've got a bottom drawer in my desk that's
13:49 that's filled with things in case you know in case I ever run out of ideas I can pull them out so
13:53 yes I think she she's a big influence I always if I ever get stuck I always think what would
13:59 Pimbrough do? So one of the elements of this uh bookie is that we're hoping to inspire writers
14:06 of the future and um help people maybe get started they might just be about to pick up a pen or
14:12 a keyboard they might be about trying to get an agent or they might be what's what's your top tip
14:17 to sort of fellow writers you know on on sort of keeping going and how to get started as well?
14:22 Um I always say if you can do anything else anything at all you should do that
14:28 but but no really I think it's very difficult giving advice because
14:34 you know it's not applicable to everyone but I will say the one thing I
14:39 I always say is don't give your book to someone who loves you don't get them to read it and give
14:47 you feedback because it's not fair on them no and they're never going to be critical enough to tell
14:53 you what isn't right with it and you can be going around thinking oh 10 people have read this but
14:58 they're all family and friends and you think it's good and then you'll get you'll get crushed when
15:02 you get to sending it out to agents and no one comes back to you so my biggest advice is to to
15:10 give it to someone who doesn't who doesn't love you unconditionally give it to someone who might
15:14 not even know you you know and get them to read it and get them to give you some feedback because
15:19 it's absolutely invaluable and the whole process of writing is being told how bad you are a lot
15:25 of the time so you write a book send it to your agent and they tell you what's not working and
15:30 then you fix it and then it goes to your editor and then they tell you what's not working you fix
15:35 it and then it gets published and people on goodreads tell you how awful it is so it's good
15:41 to to ready yourself for that so that is that is the one piece of advice I would give anyone who's
15:47 writing is to is to is to get someone who doesn't know you to read your book and give you some honest
15:52 feedback. I think one of the themes that's coming across is that so many authors rejection is just
15:57 something you have to learn to kind of handle and turn to your advantage do you have like any kind
16:03 of coping strategies if you have a bad day or you know something's been put it back to you how do
16:09 you have you or have you coped with rejection along the way? I always think that these people
16:16 are there to make it better. Well let's talk practicalities and these are the questions that
16:20 you know people do ask a lot but kind of what is your what writing process i.e are you I mean you
16:26 write sort of quite complicated plots thriller plots don't you so I mean do you do you plan all
16:32 of that out are you kind of a panther type writer or how do you plan and also how do you make
16:42 yourself just sit down and work I mean it must be hard particularly when you've got like family
16:45 running around you and that sort of thing how do you how do you manage that? I think do you know I
16:51 find people say a lot of writers are like oh you know I have to sit down and write but I just I
16:56 never ever feel like that I just love it and you know I have an I have another job and we have five
17:01 kids running around the house and sometimes you have to be at football practice in your car with
17:07 the laptop or you you have to start writing at midnight and I just if you want to do it as much
17:14 as I want to do it then you will find a way to do it and and and I always find a way and I don't
17:20 necessarily plan the whole plot out I'm not one of these people who has like a a wall with string
17:27 going to each plot point and all that I just some people are spreadsheets don't they oh no I'm just
17:33 a spreadsheet you're a writer you're not an accountant I I I don't I don't go in for that
17:39 at all I know that it does work for some people but then I see these people who plan and then and
17:43 then they edit for like a year and it's like but I thought you'd planned it out you know I don't
17:48 want to be editing for that long I want two three weeks editing and I'm done um so yeah I tend to
17:55 kind of plan three or four chapters in advance I'll write those out and then I'll plan again
18:00 so yes and I will write any any any moment that I can and I and I I like I said I write two
18:09 three a year one gets published sometimes two if you want to do it you will do it it's like anything
18:16 anything at all if you really want to do it you'll you'll make the time to do it what's the most
18:20 surprising thing that's sort of happened to you in the writing world I mean uh you know for context
18:26 like other people have mentioned things that their fans have got up to um all their readers have got
18:33 up to and the lengths they've gone to and that sort of thing what's surprised you in your career
18:38 oh god there's so many things I I find that like I said these these events where you go and there's
18:46 lots of writers and and lots of readers the readers part is is amazing I love that I think
18:52 it's it's crazy to be at a bar having a pint and someone comes up with your book and wants you to
18:58 sign it it's like you want my signature I'm not you know a rock star or whatever I'm just I write
19:04 books um you know I've had oh gosh some of these things I always go on about how much I love hummus
19:11 so I was at a book and and a fan of my books brought me a like a three a selection of three
19:17 different hummuses because I love that they've made me pens they yeah I've had people travel
19:24 up from kind of Plymouth just to Swindon just for the day just to meet me because I was in a book for
19:29 10 minutes so I think I'm I'm surprised that people like my stuff enough to to do that kind
19:36 of thing um yeah I think yeah I guess that I mean I don't know sometimes if you get like a big writer
19:45 like a Ian Rankin or someone talks to you and kind of knows who you are it's it's very I that's
19:52 surprising as well but I mean if you think about it we've got the same job and we're in the same
19:58 it's like me in your like a manager a few levels up for you and they know who you are um so that's
20:05 kind of surprising um I don't know if that's what you meant I'm sure he's probably thinking oh my
20:09 goodness Will Carver's talking to me so oh definitely yes yeah I've seen him tweet about it
20:17 right okay so we're at that point where I want to uh level a few just quick fire questions at you
20:25 if that's okay Will um so we've been asking we're calling it the bookie look um so it's just a
20:31 little little few little insights um first none of them are particularly surprising um so what's
20:36 the most read book on your shelf it is the great Gatsby I have about 16 20 different copies of it
20:46 on my bedside table I collect them so yeah I read it every year and this is a bonus question why why
20:52 why the great Gatsby it's short so I can read it every year
20:59 but the language the language is just it's just beautiful and it's the it's the opposite of the
21:04 way that I write I'm very kind of sparse and it's very elegantly done so I just kind of I
21:10 look up to it but it's not the way I write um so what is the book that you wish you'd written
21:16 oh this is so this is very difficult I mean
21:20 obviously obviously Fight Club because that that was the book that made me want to
21:27 write books rather than plays um but I think the book that just I just it was so amazing was the
21:34 book thief um I just the idea of writing a book from the point of view of death I just it hasn't
21:40 been done and it shouldn't be done ever again I just yeah I would love to have been the guy who
21:45 came up with that what about your favorite spot to read where would you enjoy a good book or an
21:52 e-book doesn't have to be a physical book where do you like to read well I always have two books on
21:58 the go I have like a physical book and an e-book e-book I read in bed because it lights up and I
22:03 can not disturb anyone um but but when I read uh I you know anywhere really but I do you know what
22:12 I hate I'm just I've gone off topic and that's quick fire but it's when you're reading out
22:16 somewhere and people think that they can just talk to you like you're not doing anything
22:22 I'm actually this is what I'm doing it's really annoying other than that we have
22:26 kind of like a second um quieter lounge I like to go in there yeah that's a good place
22:31 yeah and finally just one little last one name one thing you wish you'd known before you started
22:38 writing one thing I wish about the writing anything yeah
22:48 um I think okay well I don't I don't want to go too dark but I would
22:52 um no one these people aren't your friends that's what I would say um and I'm not talking about
23:00 other writers you meet because you become very friendly but I think the people who
23:03 are in charge of your career yes aren't your friends that this is a business and um I can't
23:10 I wish I'd I'd known that when I was kind of greener back in the early days that you know
23:16 you think they care about you as a person and they care more about how much your book sells so
23:21 I wish I'd known that I was a bit naive and that's good thank you very much that's
23:28 really interesting to talk to you it's so interesting because everybody is so different
23:33 in the way they respond to these these questions so thank you so much okay well thanks so much for
23:40 Will what a very honest answer there so thank you well that's me thanks for having me no problem at
23:47 all um thanks for coming on Bucky
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