Booky: Danielle Owen-Jones
Nicola's guest on this episode is Danielle Owen-Jones. She’s the author of two romantic comedies set up North: Stone Broke Heiress and Stuck With Him.
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00:00Welcome to Bookie, your new podcast for readers and for writers. I'm Nicola Adam, a journalist,
00:12a writer and presenter for publisher National World, which brings you this podcast today.
00:16National World runs many local news brands across the UK, from the Sheffield Star to the Blackpool
00:20Gazette, from the Scotsman to Nottingham World and many in between. In each episode, I'm asking
00:26authors to share the ups and the downs of their journeys to publication and a few tips for budding
00:31authors along the way. This is Bookie, so get a cuppa or a sneaky GMT and cosy up in your bookie
00:38nook. This week, our guest is Danielle Owen-Jones. She's the author of two romantic comedies set in
00:43the North, Stonebroke Heiress and Stuck With Him. Danielle is published by Bookature, an imprint of
00:50Hachette UK and signed with Jack Lloyd Nesbitt, one of the world's leading literary agencies,
00:55and she's currently writing her yet as untitled book. Danielle worked in journalism PR before
01:00launching a freelance content writing business and becoming an author. Originally from Southport,
01:05she now lives in Kirby Lonsdale, Cumbria, with her husband and mischievous cockapoo Poppy,
01:10who likes nothing more than distracting her while she's writing her book. This is Bookie.
01:18Well, today we have a big Bookie welcome for Danielle Owen-Jones, who is a romantic comedy
01:24writer whose books are based in Liverpool. Wow, you're two books in now, it's all going well for
01:29you. Do you want to sort of start from the beginning and tell us how it all started for you?
01:33Because you, you know, you're, you, am I right, you worked in PR or you work in PR and you've been a
01:40writer for a while and you just struck gold with the new move towards publishing in the North,
01:49I think. Yeah, yeah, well, gosh, yeah, I mean, I guess my whole career has been about writing.
01:55I started off as a journalist, sort of like when I was 19, I got my job on the newspaper,
02:01and then worked as a journalist for about three years as a senior reporter and then a features
02:07writer. And then I moved into PR and worked in a couple of agencies, worked in property PR and
02:14celebrity PR, which is excellent for inspiration, for stories, I feel, I put a bit of both in my pocket.
02:23And then after that, I... You've got a few stories.
02:28Well, yeah, and after that, my husband and I relocated to Cumbria, and I decided to go
02:33freelance. So ever since, like, gosh, it was like absolutely ages ago now, nearly 10 years, actually,
02:39I can't, I can't believe that, like, time's just absolutely flown. But yeah, I set up on my own as
02:44a freelance content writer and PR manager. And now at the moment, I've kind of, I still do it,
02:51I still work with lots of clients, but I've pulled back the PR side of things. So now I do a lot more
02:56content writing, like blogs, email newsletters, still press releases, editorials, just anything
03:03that needs words, basically. That's what I do for my clients, primarily sort of in hospitality,
03:09but yeah, all across the board, really. So alongside that, then yeah, all the writing
03:15as well, book writing too. So yeah, it's quite busy, but it's really, really good, because
03:22it feels like it's quite a nice balance between, like, writing fiction, but then also
03:28writing nonfiction for clients. So yeah, so in terms of the books, I'm really trying to cast
03:35my mind back to the years, because I feel like since COVID, I just like everything kind of
03:39blurs into one, like all the years. I can't remember what year it was. So I'm sure it was,
03:45yeah, it was 2021, because I worked, so COVID was 2020, and I worked on my book a lot during
03:52that period, because I work with hospitality businesses, that work went very, very quiet,
03:59because obviously hospitality was so impacted by the pandemic. So I'd been tinkering with this book
04:05for quite a while. And I thought, right, if I don't do it now, when am I ever actually going
04:11to do it? Because I don't know if other writers are the same, but we are like the masters of
04:17procrastination when we want to be. So I had been procrastinating.
04:22Know it well, yes.
04:24I thought, well, now that work's quiet, and you can't go out, you can't like leave the house,
04:28it was like the height of the pandemic. I thought, if I don't actually finish this book now, I'm just
04:33never going to, like, I just know I'm not, I just won't ever do it. So it was kind of the perfect
04:39time to like knuckle down, focus on it. I finished, obviously, the kind of awful first draft,
04:44I think all books are like, you know, total mess, had to go back and rewrite the first half of it
04:50completely, spent quite a long time editing it. And because I knew I wanted to go down the
04:57traditional publishing route, I knew I had to get a literary agent. So that was the first challenge.
05:04Easier said than done.
05:07That was the first challenge. So I started querying them in, God, that would have been summer,
05:13summer of 2020. Well, no, about autumn 2020, because the whole process took about four months.
05:20And I know this, like, it varies for everyone. Like, you speak to some people, and they get
05:24kind of snapped up really quickly. Some people, it takes like a year or longer. It's very much
05:29dependent kind of on your book, on your genre, like the literary agents that you're querying.
05:34But for me, yeah, it took, that first round took a few months. And then I signed with my
05:41first literary agent, Claire of Liverpool Literary Agency. And we edited the book together.
05:49We went out on submission to publishers, which is actually like querying literary agents, but I think
05:55like a million times worse. It's so nerve wracking, because it's basically your agent pitching your
06:02book to the publishers. So it just feels like the stakes, like, are so high, because you're
06:08essentially waiting to find out if, is all this work for nothing or not? It's just like a terrible...
06:14That's interesting. Yeah, it's interesting, because I think a lot of writers think, oh,
06:18goodness, I need an agent, you know, and they forget that actually that agent then has to sell
06:23your book as well. And I mean, that it can potentially not happen at all. So it's certainly
06:29probably something that a lot of people picking up the book and reading don't realise what the
06:33writers, the agents have been through to get it to this point.
06:36Exactly. And when you're new to publishing, like I was totally new to publishing, I had no, I had
06:40not even any friends who worked in publishing, like it was a whole new world for me. So I was
06:44learning all this just as I was experiencing it, which was just, yeah, eye opening, like so much
06:49respect for every single author with a book out there, like, once you've gone through and you've
06:53seen what they've experienced. Yeah, it's totally, totally eye opening. So yeah, so we went on
07:00submission. And then I had a deal offered to me by Bookature, which is an imprint of Hachette UK,
07:06which is one of the big five publishers. So yeah, it was a two book deal. And yeah, just so,
07:13so exciting. And yeah, gosh, that was again, two years ago now that the books came out.
07:21They're both romantic comedies, both set in Liverpool. And yeah, they've been doing
07:29really well. They're kind of available, ebook, paperback, audio book, all sort of formats really.
07:35And has it remained exciting? Because obviously you have that high, don't you, of getting the
07:40publisher, getting the book, releasing the book? Has it remained exciting for you in the process?
07:45Or has it become hard work? Are you sort of under pressure to write the next couple?
07:51Yeah, I'd say it's a bit of both. So it's a really, I think by its nature, it's just such
07:55an exciting industry. Like if you love books, publishing is just so, so exciting. And it's
08:01just amazing to be an author and to know that people out there are reading your words and your
08:07stories and that they enjoy it. I think that's like the biggest buzz when someone says that they
08:11loved your book. Like nothing ever beats that for me. But of course, like it has its ups and downs,
08:19because like with all that great news and the exciting developments, that it's also an industry
08:24that is just rife with rejection in every single step. So when you're querying literary agents,
08:31obviously like rejections are kind of inevitable. Unless you're very lucky and you just get
08:36completely snapped up. And then even when you get through that, it's obviously the rejections
08:41from publishers when your agent takes your book out on submission. And then even when
08:47you're a published author, like there'll be readers who don't like your book. And that's
08:52absolutely fine, because everyone's obviously entitled to their own opinion. But again,
08:56it's like the rejection is always sort of looming. So yeah, I think that's quite an interesting part
09:03of publishing. It really, you have to get your head around like being okay with rejection in
09:08kind of all forms, I think. How have you handled that? How do you, you know, how do you sort of do
09:14not take it to heart? Because it is tough. And you know, these days, every book can be reviewed or,
09:22you know, criticised potentially online in all sorts of forums. Do you steer away? Or do you
09:28take it on board? Yeah, well, it's interesting. I think every author has their own way of dealing
09:32with it. And I know from speaking to my friends, like everyone's approach to it is very different.
09:36But what I do is I just block, like NetGalley is one of the reviews, like early review sites.
09:43And I've just, I've just blocked it on my browser, because I just think like,
09:47it's actually none of my business. Like readers can review it as much as they want. Like it's
09:53totally, you know, down to them. It's their own opinion. It's absolutely fine. But I don't
09:57necessarily need to see it. If I think it's going to affect my confidence in my writing.
10:02I just kind of think of it as like, it's not my circus, not my monkeys.
10:08Yeah, well, I think I think you've got this. I mean, I think some some writers who've come from
10:13maybe completely different profession and and have no idea what it's like to be criticised,
10:18really struggle with it. I think that you because you've been a journalist, because you've come from
10:22PR, maybe you sort of a little bit more resilient than some of the some of the writers.
10:28It is really, yeah, really tough. And you know, mental health wise, you know,
10:33for somebody who sat in a room a lot of time writing, that must be hard, hard sometimes.
10:40It is. It absolutely is. And like I say, like, my answer is just to not look.
10:45That wasn't my answer initially. So I've definitely gone through the motions of looking at
10:50first. And I think actually, once you get your first few like bad reviews, then it's almost
10:57easier to handle because it's like in your mind, the worst has happened. Some people haven't liked
11:02my book. But then you think, oh, well, I've like I've gone through this. I've survived it. Like,
11:05you know, that's it's absolutely fine. Like, you know, it's not it's not the worst thing in the
11:10world. So, yeah, it's I guess it's kind of a personal, personal thing of how high your
11:16resilience is and how much it will affect your confidence, how much you expose yourself to it.
11:23What surprised you about the publishing industry since you kind of delved into it?
11:28Obviously, you were completely new to it and probably like most people had an idea of,
11:33you know, oh, I'll get my books published, you know, that's it, you know, made a made for life
11:37sort of thing, which is often far from the truth for many. How have you found it? What surprised
11:41you and what's been positive and negative in that journey?
11:44Oh, one of the best surprises is actually like the people that I've met, like I've made
11:50friends for life from publishing, which I just didn't even think about that kind of going into
11:56the industry. But it's such a warm community. And I think once you find your friends that you
12:11really, really gel with, it's just something that really bonds you because it's it feels like it's
12:16such a big thing to have a book published and to have your work out there for good reviews,
12:21for bad review, you know, to be either celebrated or picked apart. It's quite an exposing thing to
12:27do and you feel quite vulnerable. So I think having that level of support is really, really
12:32good. And yeah, that kind of took me by surprise. I just didn't think of that as like a factor that
12:37would happen by being published. Well, there's quite a lot of things as well that you just learn
12:44about publishing generally. And a lot of it is kind of dependent on like each publisher. But for
12:50example, like Bookature, the publisher of my two books, you don't have any say in like the
12:58title or the cover, which is quite surprising. So I just kind of assumed that like authors would
13:04pick their own title. It's just like naivety on my part. I think maybe some publishers they do,
13:08it's just each to their own. But yeah, that was quite, quite surprising. Luckily, I like I love
13:14both my covers and titles. What was the title of your book when you wrote it? Oh, so Stone Broke
13:21Out. So this is like the end. This is the final copy. But when I submitted it to my agent,
13:28it was called Love Soup, because it's all about a soup business.
13:35Now I see like, because publishers are so commercially minded, they think like, well,
13:39Stone Broke Out kind of does what it says on the tin a little bit more. So you've got to really
13:45trust the publisher, trust your editor, and make sure you have a good relationship. Because I mean,
13:50I feel like I like luckily I did. I love both my covers and both my titles. But I can imagine it'd
13:55be quite difficult if you don't. So yeah, kind of relinquishing control, I think is quite an
14:02interesting surprise. Yeah. I think if you go down a traditional route, you have to, don't you? If
14:06you want the complete control that you have to publish it yourself. Yeah, exactly. So could you
14:13tell us a little bit about your writing routine? How do you make yourself sit down and get on with
14:18it? Because I think it's very easy to prevaricate, very easy to get distracted when you need to sit
14:24down and write. Definitely. And I feel like definitely myself of my writing routine. Because
14:29after Christmas, I'm just trying to get back into the swing of things. So I'll say from memory,
14:35pre-Christmas, what I did. And I do think the best way to approach it is probably like what
14:43works for you. Like if you're better, if you're more productive in the morning,
14:48and it depends with work as well. Like look, like from my perspective, because I'm freelance,
14:53I can kind of work it around my like client work. So even if that means getting an extra
14:58hour in the morning or doing like two hours of an evening, I just try and grab the time where I can.
15:06Because it's all like for me, I found that even like the best laid plans, something will pop up.
15:12So if I don't sort of grab those sort of pockets of time, then it probably just won't ever happen.
15:17And the other thing I've learned is to not beat myself up about like the word count. Because
15:22I think some days naturally you'll be on a roll and you can like write like 5000 words in a day,
15:27however your sort of writing looks. Or you can just write 500 words or 50 words. And it all just
15:35really, really very much I think depends on your mood, your motivation, how much else like other
15:40work that you have on too. So I'd say it's like be kind of structured in the way that works for you.
15:46But also don't beat yourself up about it if you don't hit a certain word count every day.
15:51I think one of the things that helps me the most, like weirdly, it's not even to do with writing,
15:54but it's going for a walk, like taking my dog out for a walk and getting that like headspace.
15:59If ever I'm like stuck on a plot point, or I don't know, like a piece of dialogue or
16:04a character's personality, going out for a walk just like resets everything for me. And I just
16:09always find like, as soon as I come back, it's almost like the problem's kind of solved itself
16:15just by going out for a lovely walk. So I'm very pro taking a break if you need to and just
16:22getting like whatever your headspace looks like to do that. I just want to ask about, I know you
16:28mentioned earlier on that you're obviously you live in Cumbria and you're, you know, your family,
16:33you're sort of, you're from the kind of Merseyside area, Southport. That makes you a posh scouser,
16:40I think, essentially. No, it's a fake scouser, that's what everyone calls me.
16:50But you very much based your novel so far in Liverpool. What led you to that decision to
16:56base it there? Well, funnily enough, Stonebroke Heiress originally, it was set in London.
17:04And that's because I'd kind of thought, I'd grown up reading rom-coms and they'd all,
17:08they were always set in like London, Paris, New York. Like they were always just like big cities.
17:13So I fell into doing that because I love, love those books. And I just thought, well,
17:17they have to be set in like a big recognisable city. And it was actually my first literary
17:22agent, Claire. She's, she's like from Liverpool. She, you know, very, very pro-Liverpool,
17:28but she thought that actually setting it in Liverpool gives it a USP. And when she pitched
17:34it to editors, they also agreed. They said it made, it elevated it and made it just a little
17:39bit different to something that maybe was set in London. So it was actually her idea to do that.
17:44And I was really, really grateful for that sort of, that idea, to be honest, because it, it just made
17:51it, yeah, it feel quite different. And then I got to write about a city that I love so much.
17:56And because it's set in Toxteth, it's a place that not everyone knows, or they might have a
18:02preconceived idea of what Toxteth is like. So it was quite good just kind of going to Toxteth and
18:07looking at it through fresh eyes with all the sort of like, you know, regeneration projects
18:13that are happening there. It was quite an interesting perspective to paint it in a light
18:18that would hopefully surprise people. So just, I'm just going to level a few quickfire questions
18:24at you, if that's okay. We've been doing this with all of our authors that we've been talking to,
18:29and just really nothing too complicated. But what's the most read book on your shelf?
18:34Oh, it's tricky, because I feel like I've read Catcher in the Rye so many times. Like, I love
18:39that book so much. So that's probably like my most read book. But then it's, oh, it's so tricky,
18:47because I've got all different like favourite books in different genres. I've read the Shopaholic
18:52books by Sophie Kinsella, like a million times as well. I love them. So I'll go with those,
18:58slightly different ones, but Catcher in the Rye and the Shopaholic series.
19:03Are there other authors that you, sorry, I've gone off, I've got off myself now.
19:06Any authors that you really enjoy, you know, that write a similar sort of genre to yourself,
19:10like the romantic fiction type? Who are your favourites there? Or any of those that you've
19:15kind of become friends with almost through the process?
19:18Well, I absolutely love Emily Henry. I think as far as like romantic comedies go, she is
19:23the absolute undisputed queen. She's just incredible. So I've read her books at least
19:29twice. Because I almost like to study them, like they're like textbooks, because she's
19:35just perfection the way she writes these like contemporary love stories. So she is fantastic.
19:42And then it's funny, really, because I feel like I read a lot of rom-coms, but I do read very,
19:49very widely. So in terms of like other favourite authors, like I love, like very,
19:54very different to rom-coms, like the opposite, but I love like Douglas Stewart. I just think
19:58that he is just phenomenal. And the way he creates that sense of place.
20:04When you sit down and you write at your desk, or wherever it is you write,
20:09what's the first thing you do? Do you just turn on your laptop? Do you like have to put a timer on?
20:14Do you, you know, have to do a JK Rowling and light a candle? Or what's your little routine
20:20there? Oh, definitely light a candle. No, the most important thing is making a cup of tea.
20:28And it's got to be a Yorkshire Gold. And a massive mug. That's a good answer.
20:36A big bowl of tea. And then yeah, a candle. I do like a candle. And then I've got to have music.
20:43And I know this is super divisive. Like not everyone likes writing to music. But yeah,
20:49I've always got to, I just can't like function if I don't have just some sort of music on
20:54in the background. I just find like it helps me focus.
20:58It sort of gives a soundtrack to your story, doesn't it really?
21:01Yeah, definitely.
21:04What's your favourite reading spot? Are you, do you read, you know, is it just
21:08downstairs on the sofa or in bed or, you know, in the loo? Where do you like to read?
21:14I quite like lying in bed actually. It's quite a nice way to end the day if you just like all
21:19nice and especially when the weather's like this and it's so cold out. It's quite nice just getting
21:23all like cosy in your pyjamas. But I also like sitting in front of the fire. Oh my gosh, I think
21:29that's just like one of life's greatest luxuries. If you sit in front of a crackling fire with a
21:35good book, oh, like perfection. What more could you want?
21:41You've forgotten the cup of tea or the glass of wine. I think that's potentially essential as well.
21:47Yeah, that's a really important and probably some chocolate as well actually.
21:50That complete picture of perfection.
21:55I've just got one final question really. What is your number one top tip for people who were in
22:01a situation that you yourself were in years back when you were writing about to start querying?
22:07What's your top tip for those people, those writers?
22:12Probably is to just absolutely like persevere and if this is what you want, then like don't give up.
22:22I guess it ties in again to the whole rejection element of publishing. You really need to not
22:28let anything like that get in your head, get in your way. It's inevitable really. However it looks,
22:37you're going to come up against challenges because it's just the very nature of the
22:41industry. It's highly competitive. It's difficult, but the rewards are so worth it.
22:47So if you want to be a published author, then you really have to just keep that goal in mind
22:52and just keep going and almost have just like laser vision that if you want to achieve it,
22:58then you do just need to really, really persevere and build up a support system of fellow writers
23:05because I think that makes such a big difference. If you've got friends that
23:08will give you second opinions on like anything, whether you're querying literary agents or
23:15I don't know if you just need a bit of moral support,
23:18having that like really supportive community I think makes a really, really big difference.
23:23Wise words. It's been an absolute pleasure, Danielle, talking to you. I feel like we
23:27probably could have chatted for quite a long time, but we've run out, unfortunately.
23:33Thank you so much and good luck with the next one. I know it seems to be a bit secret squirrel
23:38at the moment, but we'll look forward to hearing about all of that. You can let us know.
23:44Thank you very much.
23:46Thank you for having me. Thanks for chatting with me.