Sawal Yeh Hai | Maria Memon | ARY News | 19th April 2024
#PTI #asifalizardari #nationalassembly #raufhassan #ImranKhan #PeshawarHighCourt #reservedseatscase #MariaMemon #Sawalyehai
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Maria Memon
Guests:
- Raoof Hasan PTI
- Abdul Moiz Jaferii (Lawyer)
Hukumat ki Janib Say PTI ko Muzakrat ki Paishkash | Rauf Hassan's Analysis
Makhsoos Nashiston Par PHC kay Tafseeli faislay kay Bad PTI ki Hikmat e Amli Kiya Hogi?
JUIF Say Muzakrat Par PTI kay Mutazad Moqaf Kiyu? Rauf Hassan Nay Wazeh Krdia
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Maria Memon
Guests:
- Raoof Hasan PTI
- Abdul Moiz Jaferii (Lawyer)
Hukumat ki Janib Say PTI ko Muzakrat ki Paishkash | Rauf Hassan's Analysis
Makhsoos Nashiston Par PHC kay Tafseeli faislay kay Bad PTI ki Hikmat e Amli Kiya Hogi?
JUIF Say Muzakrat Par PTI kay Mutazad Moqaf Kiyu? Rauf Hassan Nay Wazeh Krdia
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
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NewsTranscript
00:00 Assalam-o-Alaikum, I am Maria Meeman, I am here with Top Stories.
00:17 The government has already offered a ceasefire.
00:20 Will the situation get worse?
00:22 Are there any obstacles?
00:23 We will talk about this in the first part of the program.
00:25 The government has already offered a ceasefire.
00:31 We will talk about the second part of the program.
00:34 Why are the government officials using the X?
00:37 The Faizabad protest was declared the responsibility of the Punjab and Wafaq government.
00:42 The entire blame was put on the civilian government.
00:47 We will discuss this judgment in the last part of the program.
00:50 Yesterday, the joint session of the National Assembly with the Senate was held.
00:55 Asif-ul-Zardai was the first to address the Parliament.
00:57 The new parliamentary year has begun.
00:59 But the debate on the mandate is still not settled.
01:03 We will show you the highlights of yesterday's address.
01:05 This is the same address that we see in the history of Pakistan.
01:10 When Sadur addresses, the opposition is very loud.
01:16 We will show you the highlights of yesterday's address.
01:20 Before that, we will see what was the situation when Arif Alvi was addressing.
01:24 The people and the Parliament do not participate in this.
01:31 Therefore, every person of the people should participate in the construction of this state.
01:39 Mr. Speaker, you are away.
01:41 The menace of terrorism is again wearing its ugly head.
01:47 It is threatening our national security, regional peace and prosperity.
01:55 The more we change, the more we stay the same.
02:00 We are following the same script.
02:05 Yesterday, the same thing was also said.
02:09 But this is not new.
02:11 We have to see what else is happening.
02:16 Yesterday, Sadr-e-Mamlukat spoke about sitting together.
02:22 Yesterday, Sadr-e-Mamlukat made a first offer to the People's Party.
02:27 Mr. Raukhasan, the translator of Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaf is with us.
02:31 He will talk about the government statements and the internal and external political issues.
02:37 But first of all, I would like to address this.
02:39 What is the position of the PTI on the issue of national reconciliation?
02:45 Even if the worst of the worst is a warrior sitting in front of you,
02:51 sitting at the table and talking, this is then the internal Pakistani politics.
02:54 Is there any scope for this? Is there any future for this?
02:57 Are there any chances of this body of reconciliation being formed?
03:01 Thank you, Maria.
03:03 Look, the door of dialogue is never permanently closed.
03:11 There are reasons for which it cannot be opened.
03:15 The problem is that the government at the moment,
03:19 I don't think there is any claim about the February elections that the election was stolen.
03:24 If you read our manifesto, I will send it to you,
03:28 we have put two chapters in it. I have authored it myself.
03:31 One chapter is about truth and reconciliation.
03:34 The other is about healing a nation.
03:36 We strongly feel that this nation needs an ointment,
03:40 rather than running more initiatives and furthering it.
03:43 There is no doubt about this. I think this is felt across the board.
03:46 But there are some preconditions for that.
03:49 First of all, there is truth before reconciliation.
03:52 Now, knowing the truth is an important thing.
03:56 Now, to know the truth, I think that where they are offering to sit and talk,
04:01 before that, their illegal and unconstitutional occupation of the seat of power,
04:06 that has to be vacated.
04:08 Only after that can we talk about truth and reconciliation.
04:12 Until the truth is not spoken, until the truth is not implemented.
04:17 I don't think that with three political parties,
04:20 the rest, our door is open to everyone.
04:22 All the political parties are joining us one by one on that platform.
04:27 So, do you see People's Party, PMLN as one entity,
04:31 or do you see the PMLN offer differently?
04:35 There are three parties, PMLN, People's Party and MQMP.
04:39 All three are the beneficiaries of the election fraud.
04:44 This is a common point that unites them.
04:47 But your mandate is against PMLN and MQMP, your grudges are against them.
04:50 No, People's Party is the same.
04:52 I will share with you, when the government was not formed,
04:56 we got a lot of overtures from People's Party.
05:00 Actually, people came to us on the level of Bilawal Bhutto Zardari.
05:04 And not one or two, but they said that we want to sit and talk to you,
05:08 we want to form a coalition with you.
05:10 After the election?
05:11 After the election, before the formation of the government,
05:14 which was in the middle.
05:15 And we discussed at that time too,
05:17 that those people who have stolen the mandate,
05:20 cannot talk to them.
05:22 First, vacate the mandate, then we can talk.
05:25 But they will not do it.
05:27 So what is the way?
05:28 For example, we play a role, we build a scenario.
05:33 They come and do a press conference,
05:35 that we did wrong, we did wrong.
05:37 After that, they step down, then there will be a chaos.
05:40 After that, you will make the government.
05:42 To fulfill the numbers,
05:44 you have legal and political challenges.
05:47 So how does this play out?
05:49 It can only play out in one way.
05:51 We have exercised the legal options we had.
05:54 Our petitions have been filed.
05:56 And they have gone with vouching documents.
05:58 Form 45 and Form 47.
06:00 So the truth on them, which is correct,
06:02 where we have won, we concede that.
06:06 After that, the doors of discussion can be opened.
06:08 But as long as they are occupying,
06:11 undemocratically, the seat of power,
06:14 I don't think anyone in the PTI will dare to sit with them.
06:19 So we have understood from the political parties,
06:21 but do you want to talk to Mukhtadara?
06:24 Mr. Khan had said a long time ago that he is ready to talk to all of us.
06:27 You may remember that he had also made a committee.
06:30 And he said, let's face the fact.
06:33 He is the real power base.
06:36 The real power base is not Prime Minister House.
06:38 The real power is with them.
06:40 You can define it as you wish.
06:42 So at the end of the day, if you want to fix the situation,
06:45 you will have to talk to them.
06:47 But if you are ready to talk to them,
06:49 you have set strict conditions for political parties.
06:51 You don't have such strict conditions for them.
06:53 No, no, we have strict conditions with them too.
06:55 But you are not that strict with them.
06:57 Despite what happened in the last two years,
06:59 you are ready to talk.
07:01 Political parties are definitely beneficiaries of this.
07:03 I agree.
07:04 But there is no direct physical or any other causation from them.
07:08 So, these conditions seem to be very strict.
07:10 But they are not that strict for the real power.
07:12 If you talk about the 76 years of history,
07:14 there has always been a common factor.
07:17 Whether it is through direct tools or indirect tools,
07:20 there is a common factor.
07:22 And that is the real power.
07:24 The problem of this country is that
07:26 it is an institution that you cannot damage.
07:28 It is an institution that you cannot even fight against.
07:31 We have a clear understanding.
07:34 And we cannot fight against it.
07:36 We need to fight against it.
07:38 We need to fight against it.
07:40 We need to fight against it.
07:42 So, you have to talk about this.
07:44 You have to take your rights from that institution
07:46 without damaging that institution.
07:48 But if you make political parties your allies,
07:50 then will you be able to...
07:52 We saw that the NRO happened in 2000.
07:54 And then the political class achieved a lot after that.
07:56 Now you see it in this prism that it was a mess.
07:58 But the political class gave back a lot of space.
08:00 You teach politics.
08:02 You can disagree on this.
08:04 So, aren't political entities your allies?
08:08 I will ask you this question.
08:10 Where did they take the space?
08:12 Sir, after 2008,
08:14 didn't you feel that...
08:16 You see, the 2008 elections were controversial.
08:18 The 2013 elections were controversial.
08:20 The 2018 elections were controversial.
08:22 The 2023 elections were controversial.
08:24 The 24th elections were delayed.
08:26 And in between,
08:28 the unconstitutionality that has happened,
08:30 that is unprecedented.
08:32 If the direct rule of the army is taken over,
08:34 then the constitution is suspended.
08:36 But violating it in the presence of the constitution
08:38 is a new tradition.
08:40 For two years,
08:42 in the presence of the constitution,
08:44 you have done everything unconstitutional.
08:46 Your courts were dysfunctional.
08:48 And they didn't give any hearing.
08:50 Still, you feel that the political...
08:52 I feel that the way they hold today,
08:54 or the way they hold,
08:56 it has never been before.
08:58 So, the political parties
09:00 that can become your allies,
09:02 you don't want to talk to them right now.
09:04 You want to talk to them
09:06 after they give you the assurance
09:08 about the mandate.
09:10 But you want to talk to the rest now.
09:12 We have written the doors open for us.
09:14 In fact, the doors are not that open
09:16 for the parties.
09:18 I just want to understand the difference.
09:20 They have usurped.
09:22 They have usurped the mandate.
09:24 But the enablers can talk to them.
09:26 But the enablers can talk to them.
09:28 But the enablers can talk to them.
09:30 I understand.
09:32 We are talking to the enablers
09:34 because we want to end the usurpation process.
09:36 Who wants to end it?
09:38 The People's Party cannot do it.
09:40 The PTI cannot do it.
09:42 The PMLN cannot do it.
09:44 No other ABC, XYZ can do it.
09:46 You have to sit with the Boogany
09:48 and sign a new charter
09:50 or agree to it.
09:52 So that the job of governance
09:54 is left to the politicians.
09:56 We cannot do anything
09:58 without any outside intervention
10:00 including from the establishment.
10:02 We can only do it with the people's mandate.
10:04 Then there is no problem.
10:06 Then all the political parties can sit together.
10:08 But until the usurpation of the mandate
10:10 is in power,
10:12 I don't think we can
10:14 dare to sit with the parties
10:16 and talk to them.
10:18 Today, the Peshawar High Court
10:20 has issued a very strict decision
10:22 regarding the private investors.
10:24 I am sure you will challenge it.
10:26 Quickly, what is the decision?
10:28 According to the Peshawar High Court's
10:30 detailed decision, the Speaker of the
10:32 Subai Assembly, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa,
10:34 should take a vote from the nine
10:36 elected members on the specific seats
10:38 before the Senate elections.
10:40 It is a 24-page decision.
10:42 It states that stopping the nine
10:44 elected members from voting on the
10:46 specific seats is against the law.
10:48 The KP's hearing is scheduled
10:50 within 14 days.
10:52 Are you going to exercise the
10:54 legal options?
10:56 No, we are going to exercise the legal options.
10:58 Will you go to the Supreme Court?
11:00 Yes.
11:02 Do you expect a different decision
11:04 from the Supreme Court?
11:06 Will your plea be different?
11:08 Will the way of fighting the case be different?
11:10 Will the political strategy be different?
11:12 To be honest with you,
11:14 we have not received anything from the Supreme Court,
11:16 neither from the High Court nor from the Small Court.
11:18 The letter of the six judges
11:20 is an open book.
11:22 You can read it.
11:24 I don't want to go into it.
11:26 We are going to the Supreme Court
11:28 without any expectations.
11:30 We have no other option.
11:32 The political party has an option.
11:34 It has an option in the Parliament.
11:36 We are fighting the case.
11:38 We are going to the Supreme Court
11:40 with our legal options.
11:42 We are going to the Supreme Court
11:44 with our legal options.
11:46 We are going to the Supreme Court
11:48 without any expectations.
11:50 I don't think that our political leaders
11:52 can stop us.
11:54 Our electorate is full.
11:56 I can't tell you
11:58 how much pressure
12:00 we are under.
12:02 I always try to take a step back
12:04 and ponder.
12:06 I always try to take a step back
12:08 and ponder.
12:10 I think that they should rethink
12:12 their contact with the Supreme Court.
12:14 I think that they should rethink
12:16 their contact with the Supreme Court.
12:18 At the end of the day,
12:20 you, me and everybody else
12:22 are basically interested in the state.
12:24 We have to defend this state.
12:26 The way the state has been running
12:28 for 70 years,
12:30 where did we start from?
12:32 Today, we are less than half of that state.
12:34 Today, we have earned a lot more.
12:36 We have earned humiliation.
12:38 Today, we are on an economic capitulation.
12:40 Frankly, I call Pakistan
12:42 an economic captive.
12:44 I was sitting with a few people
12:46 who were ambassadors.
12:48 They were asking,
12:50 "How will you come out of this?"
12:52 If you take 8 billion dollars,
12:54 or 18 billion dollars,
12:56 how will you come out of this?
12:58 I think that reconciliation
13:00 is the key.
13:02 I agree with you.
13:04 Are you seeing any signs of this?
13:06 Are you seeing any signs of this?
13:08 Are you seeing any signs of this?
13:10 Are you seeing any signs of this?
13:12 At the end of the day,
13:14 our commitment is to Pakistan
13:16 and to the state.
13:18 I have openly said,
13:20 and I don't want to say this to any other politician,
13:22 but our doors are open.
13:24 Whenever you want, we are ready to sit.
13:26 The question is,
13:28 has the ice melted?
13:30 To be honest about it,
13:32 I don't think so.
13:34 Has there been any contact?
13:36 There is a deadlock,
13:38 where you are talking,
13:40 and I am saying that
13:42 at the end of the day,
13:44 the establishment will have to talk to Imran Khan.
13:46 Because at this time,
13:48 Pakistan's only recognized political leader
13:50 is Imran Khan.
13:52 This is not my case,
13:54 I am talking about his party.
13:56 So we will have to talk to him.
13:58 How do we do it? When do we do it?
14:00 I know I don't have any such facts.
14:02 Even Gandapur sir has not brought any message.
14:04 No message has been sent through him.
14:06 But there was pressure on Khan sir in the beginning.
14:08 There was pressure on Nawaz Sharif and Zardari sir.
14:10 That you go, sit quietly,
14:12 we will bring you back.
14:14 That means that the lever of power
14:16 they want to keep in their hands.
14:18 That we will call, we will remove,
14:20 we will bring, we will remove.
14:22 Our stance is against this.
14:24 We want that the ultimate arbiters of power
14:26 in this country, after God,
14:28 are the people. And leave it to the people.
14:30 You move out of the way.
14:32 Your other commitments are big.
14:34 You have a role in the constitution.
14:36 It is a big obligation and a big challenge for you.
14:38 So you don't go into that.
14:40 On some things, the policy,
14:42 I think because the main leadership
14:44 is in jail, we see different opinions in it.
14:46 It happens in every political party.
14:48 But on the policy level,
14:50 the difference is on some things.
14:52 One of them is meeting the JUIF
14:54 and making any kind of political
14:56 or any other alliance with them,
14:58 or walking together or sitting together.
15:00 Two different thoughts are found.
15:02 Gandapur sir, who is the CM, thinks something else.
15:04 We are meeting him, we are in touch.
15:06 Listen to both of their opinions.
15:08 Then we will ask which one is closer
15:10 to Mr. Tarik-e-Insaaf's official policy.
15:12 How did you decide to sit with Moulana?
15:14 It was on Mr. D.I. Khan's advice.
15:16 He gave the direction.
15:18 And our stance is that
15:20 there should be one front.
15:22 The parties that have concerns
15:24 about the election, or have reservations
15:26 about it, we should collect those parties.
15:28 The rate is like a vote.
15:30 In D.I. Khan, people were caught
15:32 and taken to Moulana's party.
15:34 He is saying that I have stolen.
15:36 Moulana is setting his rate.
15:38 Then he will take, then he will use the children.
15:40 Then he will take Kashmir committee,
15:42 then he will take the governor or some other.
15:44 Then I will take the vote.
15:46 Which opinion is closer to Mr. Tarik-e-Insaaf's
15:48 official policy?
15:50 Do you want to talk to the JUIF?
15:52 Do you not want to?
15:54 Can they become an ally?
15:56 Can they not?
15:58 The mistrust of the PGI
16:00 is very old.
16:02 And that mistrust is
16:04 growing with time.
16:06 Despite that, there were some people
16:08 in the party, Asad Qaisar
16:10 who thought that, as Mr. Khan gave the
16:12 instruction to make a platform,
16:14 and he said that you can talk to everyone
16:16 except the political parties.
16:18 I give you full permission.
16:20 Asad Qaisar initiated it.
16:22 But I think that the resentment
16:24 within the party, and similarly
16:26 the resentment in their party
16:28 and the resentment etc.
16:30 On the basis of that,
16:32 I personally think that
16:34 it will take a lot of time to
16:36 overcome this mistrust.
16:38 Yesterday I was with Mr. Khan.
16:40 I was one of the six people who met him yesterday.
16:42 We discussed it at length.
16:44 He heard both the aspects and was briefed.
16:46 At the end of it all, he said that
16:48 the political committee should decide
16:50 whether you want to do it or not.
16:52 That is my personal opinion.
16:54 I do not think that for the time being
16:56 we will be able to deal with this.
16:58 There is pressure from the other side
17:00 as well, from the JYF.
17:02 It is the pressure of their constituency
17:04 and the pressure of your own voters.
17:06 I think that is the case.
17:08 After Asad Qaisar,
17:10 whatever Mr. Ghantapur said,
17:12 I think that if it is said that
17:14 the doors were open,
17:16 then the doors are closed.
17:18 How long does it take for them to open
17:20 or for them not to open?
17:22 I think it will not take much time.
17:24 I think that the chances of that
17:26 are very low.
17:28 Mr. Marwat, I think that
17:30 every few weeks he gives a statement
17:32 and I have to ask you a question.
17:34 This is the third or fourth time
17:36 I have to ask you a question.
17:38 The Saudi delegation has come to Pakistan.
17:40 They sit on a television and talk about this.
17:42 This makes PTI look not good.
17:44 I think that at this time
17:46 you are giving an important statement
17:48 about a key ally.
17:50 If it is true or not, it is your opinion.
17:52 But you are creating an impression
17:54 which is problematic for your party.
17:56 You are saying that it was your personal opinion.
17:58 They give their personal opinion many times
18:00 and then you have to backtrack.
18:02 What is the mechanism in your party
18:04 between personal opinion and policy?
18:06 I am sitting here with you.
18:08 My personal opinion can differ with the party.
18:10 It does differ many times.
18:12 But I will not state my personal opinion.
18:14 If I do not get your private opinion
18:16 after this program, I will share it with you.
18:18 My personal opinion ends
18:20 with the party.
18:22 Especially when it comes to foreign policy.
18:24 Of course, I am sitting here.
18:26 It is not a matter of personal opinion.
18:28 They did not state that it was their personal opinion.
18:30 It felt like it was the party's position.
18:32 We had to dissociate ourselves.
18:34 If you see our statement.
18:36 Yesterday, it was discussed with Mr. Khan.
18:38 He was shocked.
18:40 He told us many instances
18:42 in which Saudi Arabia went out of the way
18:44 to help Pakistan
18:46 in our time.
18:48 He said that there was no such reality.
18:50 There is no such reality.
18:52 But you are absolutely right
18:54 that the party suffers
18:56 in terms of public perception.
18:58 What is the accountability process?
19:00 When someone talks like this,
19:02 does your party have discipline?
19:04 I see that people give out of party policy statements.
19:06 Is it okay?
19:08 Is it okay to think
19:10 that he is a person
19:12 who gives statements of his own will
19:14 and later he will keep on objecting?
19:16 He has come from his own official position.
19:18 This is not appropriate.
19:20 This is not the attitude.
19:22 He has been talked to with respect.
19:24 He has been talked to with respect.
19:26 He has been talked to with respect.
19:28 These are the issues
19:30 that you should talk to the party platforms.
19:32 Our core committee
19:34 and political committee
19:36 have regular meetings.
19:38 Today, they had a meeting for two and a half hours.
19:40 They promise to do everything.
19:42 On the face of it, everything happens.
19:44 But after four days,
19:46 we find out what is happening.
19:48 Do you have any special concessions for them?
19:50 I want to know what is the process.
19:52 I cannot continue this.
19:54 This will be very difficult.
19:56 We cannot tolerate
19:58 this kind of damage in a polarised situation.
20:00 We are thinking
20:02 that we will meet the Saudi ambassador
20:04 and call him.
20:06 I get the impression that
20:08 such controversial things
20:10 are made to be done by Mr. Marwad
20:12 and he does not do anything.
20:14 I do not know.
20:16 You know that he does not do anything.
20:18 You say that you have talked to him.
20:20 You have explained to him.
20:22 After some time,
20:24 you make him understand.
20:26 He is not understanding
20:28 and you are not reaching out to him.
20:30 Intelligent people should understand
20:32 that political parties do not have such things.
20:34 I do not have any right.
20:36 I have the right to talk openly
20:38 on the party platform.
20:40 If there is any contentious issue,
20:42 we all give our opinion.
20:44 But when we go out, it is one voice.
20:46 That is PTI voice.
20:48 This is a principle that we all should avoid.
20:50 What is the status of inter-party elections?
20:52 There was a debate that there will be party elections
20:54 and they will submit the results.
20:56 Then you will have to end with Sunni tariq.
20:58 You will have to join the union again.
21:00 There was a big debate.
21:02 Where is this?
21:04 What is the process?
21:06 I am the federal election commissioner of the party.
21:08 I have also conducted party elections.
21:10 It has been three months
21:12 since we have submitted the election commission.
21:14 We have an idea that
21:16 during the implementation of the London Plan,
21:18 they did not want to contact us.
21:20 Today, when the core committee meeting was held,
21:22 many members of the core committee
21:24 mentioned it with great intensity.
21:26 We have decided that
21:28 on Monday, we will go to the election commission office
21:30 for the fourth or fifth time
21:32 and remind them that
21:34 last time when Mr. Gauhar went
21:36 and Mr. Zain went with him,
21:38 he said that
21:40 all the commissioners
21:42 and the chief election commissioner
21:44 have seen the results and there is no problem.
21:46 We will issue a letter to you very soon.
21:48 It did not happen. Then it happened.
21:50 I think we are going for the fourth time.
21:52 Is there a problem in the current strategy?
21:54 Or the way the cases should be pursued,
21:56 the focus goes here and there
21:58 because obviously, politics has to be done.
22:00 Because this should have been a priority
22:02 before the election.
22:04 Is there an urgency?
22:06 Or is it a part of the strategy?
22:08 Or is there a delay from the court
22:10 or the election commission?
22:12 They are saying that
22:14 one of the facets of the London Plan
22:16 is the by-election.
22:18 I think they do not want to give us
22:20 our symbol before the by-election
22:22 because the way the election has been conducted,
22:24 by any stretch of imagination,
22:26 there can be no problem.
22:28 That is why they are holding.
22:30 When all these phases pass,
22:32 I think we should
22:34 maybe bother them more.
22:36 But I think after that,
22:38 they will not have any excuse
22:40 to hold back.
22:42 I think we should get it after that.
22:44 This was the news.
22:46 Obviously, the PMLN is thinking about it.
22:48 One camp says that Nawaz Sharif
22:50 should be a part of it.
22:52 The letter about the six judges' cases
22:54 written by the Islamabad High Court.
22:56 One camp says that they are thinking
22:58 whether they should be a part of it or not.
23:00 Or there is a wait and watch policy
23:02 behind it.
23:04 These are court cases.
23:06 Let us see the court.
23:08 Our understanding is that
23:10 this is a purely court case.
23:12 And the court that they have noted,
23:14 we feel that it should not be delayed.
23:16 Because the Supreme Judicial Council
23:18 has made a few decisions in favour of PTI
23:20 about the anti-corruption judge
23:22 and they have filed a complaint against him.
23:24 I strongly believe that the judiciary
23:26 should be a part of it.
23:28 I strongly believe that
23:30 this is my personal opinion and
23:32 my party's opinion that where there is no
23:34 rule of law, there cannot be progress
23:36 and democracy can not be formed.
23:38 The judiciary should realise this.
23:40 Chief Justice should realise this.
23:42 Unfortunately, he has fought it.
23:44 I am very blunt in this matter.
23:46 I have said a lot.
23:48 He has fought it in deliverance of justice
23:50 to the people and to the political
23:52 matters. We have seen a lot of partisans.
23:54 I think they should reclaim their space
23:56 and do it in a different way without
23:58 wasting any time.
24:00 Without the judiciary, the
24:02 state's structure becomes hollow.
24:04 And we are moving with the same hollow structure.
24:06 It cannot be run for long. It will crumble.
24:08 So, is there any categorical
24:10 or any intention to form a party?
24:12 We feel that we are outsiders.
24:14 We should not interfere in this.
24:16 This is an institution. It is one of the
24:18 three pillars of the state.
24:20 So, they should sit together and
24:22 solve this matter. And it should come
24:24 to a conclusion.
24:26 Nawaz Sharif's camp in PMLN is
24:28 repeatedly signalling about the
24:30 election. You must have heard about
24:32 Rana Sinhaullah, Javed Latif, Puram
24:34 Dastgir. All their statements are
24:36 on the record. I am just
24:38 collecting them for my audience.
24:40 Why is PMLN signalling?
24:42 What is your opinion?
24:44 Because they are talking
24:46 about the same thing.
24:48 Their conclusions are different.
24:50 Their results should be different.
24:52 Your conclusions are the same.
24:54 This is my
24:56 confirmed information.
24:58 There are many issues
25:00 in their family.
25:02 They are a grieved party.
25:04 They know the reason for this grief.
25:06 Mr. Nawaz Sharif was promised
25:08 that he will be the Prime Minister.
25:10 Everyone knows this.
25:12 Everyone knows about London Plan.
25:14 But something happened in between.
25:16 Their strong feeling in that camp
25:18 is that
25:20 Shahbaz Shah and his company
25:22 came. So, the division
25:24 is affected
25:26 because of this basic fight.
25:28 Where does it go?
25:30 Time will tell.
25:32 You must have seen
25:34 that they are thinking of becoming a grieved party.
25:36 They are talking about the same thing
25:38 that you are talking about.
25:40 They think that their mandate is being stolen.
25:42 But the process, the way they are
25:44 detailing is very
25:46 similar to yours.
25:48 That is their internal matter.
25:50 That is their family matter.
25:52 They have come to the party
25:54 because there are two issues in the party.
25:56 There is a contrasting issue.
25:58 Khawaja Asif
26:00 is sitting there.
26:02 Then there is Javed Latif.
26:04 Javed Latif has become extradited from the party.
26:06 He is not in the party.
26:08 But he is giving statements on the party.
26:10 He is giving statements on the party policy.
26:12 There is all this.
26:14 My understanding is that
26:16 I have a fair bit of information
26:18 about the family.
26:20 I think the matter is serious.
26:22 The effects of the fight
26:24 are coming out.
26:26 Some of your last questions are
26:28 that there are people from PTI
26:30 who have decided to
26:32 return to the party.
26:34 Are these decisions final?
26:36 For example, Malika Bukhari
26:38 has returned to the party.
26:40 Is this a decision?
26:42 These decisions will be made by Khan.
26:44 We are concerned
26:46 that we will not give
26:48 a ticket to anyone
26:50 who has gone to the party.
26:52 We will not give a ticket to anyone
26:54 who has gone to the party.
26:56 All these people
26:58 are sitting on our doorstep
27:00 and begging us.
27:02 Khan will decide
27:04 who will be given a ticket
27:06 and who will not.
27:08 There are two types of people
27:10 in the party.
27:12 Some people
27:14 have left the party
27:16 under pressure
27:18 after being tortured.
27:20 But they have not
27:22 given a statement against the party.
27:24 There is a level of sympathy
27:26 for them.
27:28 Fawad Chaudhary has not
27:30 given a statement.
27:32 He has joined the party
27:34 but has not given a statement.
27:36 He is in contact with
27:38 other groups.
27:40 There is a lot of resistance.
27:42 But there is a level of sympathy
27:44 for some people.
27:46 One of them is Malika Bukhari.
27:48 You have seen
27:50 what happened to her.
27:52 But there is a strong feeling
27:54 that some people
27:56 should not be allowed
27:58 to join the party.
28:00 There is a big factor
28:02 and I must share it with you.
28:04 The last two years have been
28:06 very difficult for us.
28:08 But the ideological base
28:10 has been restored.
28:12 It has been strong and restored.
28:14 50% of the people
28:16 in the National Assembly
28:18 are from the
28:20 aboriginal community.
28:22 They have taken over
28:24 in a new way.
28:26 There is a lot of resistance
28:28 from them and from those
28:30 who have sacrificed
28:32 in the last two years.
28:34 It is a difficult thing.
28:36 Thank you.
28:38 We were with you.
28:40 The government said
28:42 that it is a matter of national security.
28:44 That is why Twitter
28:46 was shut down.
28:48 We will talk about it in the second part.
28:50 Welcome back.
28:54 For two months,
28:56 Twitter was shut down.
28:58 First, the Ministry of Intelligence
29:00 and the Ministry of Information
29:02 were responsible for it.
29:04 It was being done under the supervision
29:06 of the elected government.
29:08 The first report
29:10 was presented by the Ministry of Intelligence.
29:12 What was said in it?
29:14 The report of the Islamicabad High Court
29:16 stated that the Ministry of Intelligence
29:18 has finally decided
29:20 to keep the situation of national security
29:22 and peace in Oman stable.
29:24 The report said that the request
29:26 against the shutdown of the X
29:28 is against the law and the facts.
29:30 The request is not acceptable.
29:32 According to the Ministry of Intelligence,
29:34 the government is a participant
29:36 in the agreement of the implementation
29:38 of the Pakistani laws.
29:40 The report claimed that the government
29:42 did not follow the instructions
29:44 of Pakistan regarding the misuse
29:46 of the platform.
29:48 That is why the X was banned.
29:50 The report stated that the Ministry
29:52 of Intelligence issued the instructions
29:54 of the shutdown of the X
29:56 because the government had no other option
29:58 other than the shutdown of the X.
30:00 According to the Ministry of Intelligence,
30:02 the X is being used as a platform
30:04 to harm the people of Oman
30:06 and to prevent the end of the revolution.
30:08 The report stated that the government
30:10 had issued the ban on TikTok in 2021.
30:12 But the ban was lifted after 10 days
30:14 on the agreement of the implementation
30:16 of the Pakistani laws.
30:18 The Ministry of Intelligence stated
30:20 that the shutdown of the X is not
30:22 against Article 19 of the constitution.
30:24 So this is a matter of national security.
30:26 But we see that the government
30:28 and the Prime Minister
30:30 are using the X with their own
30:32 malicious intent.
30:34 If it is so dangerous,
30:36 why is the government using it
30:38 as the biggest medium of the block?
30:40 Why is Twitter being used
30:42 for all its PR and public relation?
30:44 Shabaz Sharif, the Prime Minister
30:46 of Pakistan, tweets using VPN.
30:48 The Minister of Foreign Affairs
30:50 is also using the X.
30:52 The whole cabinet is using the X.
30:54 It is obvious that it is being used
30:56 using VPN.
30:58 The Minister of Interior is tweeting
31:00 using the X.
31:02 The Minister of Defence is also
31:04 using the X
31:06 using VPN
31:08 while keeping
31:10 the national security issues
31:12 and concerns of the country.
31:14 The Minister of Information
31:16 is using the X
31:18 because it is a platform
31:20 of huge information.
31:22 The Prime Minister, the Prime Minister of Punjab
31:24 and the Prime Minister of Balochistan
31:26 are using the X
31:28 but we do not know
31:30 what is the policy
31:32 of deregulating it.
31:34 Abdul Moiz Jafri, who is a law expert
31:36 is also present in the courts
31:38 for this case.
31:40 He is also a requester.
31:42 The situation is that
31:44 the whole cabinet is using the X.
31:46 The reports that they have collected
31:48 are like saying
31:50 that disbelief has been broken.
31:52 They were not telling us what the real issue is.
31:54 Should we consider this as a breakthrough?
31:56 That the case will move forward
31:58 at least the government has agreed.
32:00 Thank you Maria
32:02 for giving us the opportunity.
32:04 I think it is important to clarify
32:06 that the petitions
32:08 against the banning of Twitter X
32:10 are in the Karachi registry
32:12 of Sindh High Court.
32:14 It is in Karachi.
32:16 And there
32:18 the Ministry of Interior
32:20 has not given such an answer.
32:22 The answer that you are giving
32:24 in detail
32:26 is probably a petition
32:28 in Islamabad High Court
32:30 against the ban.
32:32 The first thing
32:34 that is interesting is that
32:36 in our case
32:38 they have only given
32:40 a reference to the single page notification.
32:42 And in a short way
32:44 they have said that
32:46 we had reports from the secret agencies
32:48 and therefore we have closed it.
32:50 And the other
32:52 petitions in Islamabad High Court
32:54 are also
32:56 a little more valid
32:58 and they are trying to show
33:00 that they could not
33:02 contact Twitter.
33:04 But the thing is that
33:06 the content against which they have an issue
33:08 that online content
33:10 which is their own laws
33:12 under that
33:14 the content on Twitter
33:16 on the social media platform
33:18 it is important to identify it
33:20 and it is important to give 48 hours
33:22 to that platform
33:24 after which you can do some other work
33:26 or you can fine that platform
33:28 or you can also get it banned
33:30 until it does not
33:32 fall under your jurisdiction.
33:34 But here
33:36 there is no identification of that online content.
33:38 It is just a general thing
33:40 that some evil-loving people
33:42 and here in our petition
33:44 they have not even forced to do this.
33:46 They have simply said that
33:48 we had reports and we have done it.
33:50 Because of this our High Court has ordered
33:52 that your position
33:54 without any justification
33:56 indeterminate
33:58 you have closed the social media platform
34:00 there is no justification in the law.
34:02 Therefore we give you a week
34:04 to do an internal consultation
34:06 with yourself
34:08 and withdraw it within the government
34:10 otherwise we will have to
34:12 pass appropriate orders on the next date.
34:14 I have two questions on this.
34:16 First, the ban of TikTok
34:18 has been mentioned in the petition.
34:20 They have said that they have spoken
34:22 to TikTok's administration
34:24 and it was opened.
34:26 It was a court decision
34:28 and as a result it was banned.
34:30 It is about that kind of arrangement.
34:32 But Twitter is not registered in Pakistan.
34:34 Is this a contract or a discussion
34:36 or an arrangement?
34:38 Will it go till there?
34:40 Do you think there will be any progress
34:42 in this matter?
34:44 Your guess is as good as mine.
34:46 If there was a reason
34:50 for the ban
34:52 that the people are evil
34:54 then there would have been homework.
34:56 If they are not in Pakistan
34:58 they do not have the interest
35:00 to enter our market.
35:02 They cannot be forced to come here
35:04 but they can have a dialogue.
35:06 If this was not a justification
35:08 and it was the truth
35:10 then the content
35:12 that was an issue
35:14 would have been highlighted.
35:16 It would have had a history.
35:18 It would have shown
35:20 to the court
35:22 that we have done all this
35:24 and still they are not listening to us.
35:26 If all this had happened
35:28 then you could have created a justification
35:30 that we will do this
35:32 and they are not listening to us.
35:34 But these are just excuses.
35:36 There is no specificity.
35:38 Actually,
35:40 it seems that you have
35:42 throttled the conversation
35:44 because people can say anything
35:46 about anyone on a medium
35:48 and this is their right in freedom of expression.
35:50 Although, when there are laws of defamation
35:52 in a country
35:54 then use those laws
35:56 if someone says something wrong.
35:58 Especially, our country
36:00 where there are only three countries left in the world
36:02 where you can do criminal
36:04 procedures and police can arrest you.
36:06 So, in such a country
36:08 there should not be a problem
36:10 that someone is respected.
36:12 There are other ways.
36:14 Again, if you would have identified
36:16 the defamatory material then you would have removed it.
36:18 If you would not have removed that platform
36:20 then you could have done something else.
36:22 But the problem here is something else.
36:24 The problem here is that the freedom
36:26 that is being expressed
36:28 is against our government
36:30 and their vested interests.
36:32 They want
36:34 that such a public debate
36:36 platform should not be available.
36:38 Because in such a platform
36:40 a collective wisdom develops
36:42 and a marketplace of conversation
36:44 is formed.
36:46 This is the truth and they will not tell us.
36:48 Thank you very much.
36:50 Mr. Abdul Moiz Jafri was telling us about this case.
36:52 His case is in different courts
36:54 in Karachi
36:56 and in Islamabad.
36:58 But, the obvious thing is
37:00 that the reason behind this conversation
37:02 is that for the past two months
37:04 VPN is being used in Pakistan.
37:06 All the cabins and all the important officials
37:08 have to use Twitter.
37:10 But, they have to stop it
37:12 and let it be used
37:14 with force.
37:16 This is a strange logic.
37:18 We will come back after the break.
37:20 The verdict of the Faisabad case has come out.
37:22 All the responsibilities of the political government
37:24 have been put on the case.
37:26 Whether it is the Punjab government or the federal government.
37:28 We will talk about this after the break.
37:30 Welcome back.
37:32 The verdict of the Faisabad case has come out.
37:34 The verdict of the Faisabad case has come out.
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