"Kamran Murtaza Nay Khud Constitutional Court ki Mukhalifat Nahi ki...." Murtaza Wahab's Statement
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"Kamran Murtaza Nay Khud Constitutional Court ki Mukhalifat Nahi ki...." Murtaza Wahab's Statement
"Kamran Murtaza Nay Khud Constitutional Court ki Mukhalifat Nahi ki...." Murtaza Wahab's Statement
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00:00Were you able to hear Kamran Murtaza when you were talking to him?
00:05Yes, I heard Kamran Murtaza's conversation.
00:08Okay, so you have been honoured.
00:09Alhamdulillah.
00:11From what he said, it seems that the Aaini Adalat program
00:15is not being broadcasted.
00:19No, Haseeb. I was listening to him.
00:24He didn't say yes or no.
00:28He said that he has proposed that the bankers should be formed.
00:33But we are not denying the Aaini Adalat.
00:37You keep provoking them again and again.
00:40And they keep giving the same answer.
00:43That it would be better for me to end this right now.
00:50I think that...
00:54Murtaza, I am sorry to interrupt.
00:56He didn't say yes or no. Keep all the options open.
01:00But it was clear that he himself is logically convinced
01:05that there is no need to set up a complete system
01:10for a few hundred Aaini cases.
01:12It was clear from what he said that this is his opinion.
01:15Even though he said that there is no finality in this.
01:17Waseem bhai, there is a difference between individual and collective thinking.
01:22He himself said that Maulana will make the decision.
01:25Yes, he said that.
01:26So, my personal opinion can be something.
01:29But naturally, my personal opinion is not based on the party's opinion.
01:34It is based on the opinion of the general assembly, our senior leaders,
01:38the chairman and the president.
01:41So, I respect the opinion of one person.
01:46But to say that a political party has made this decision
01:51so that we are not in favour of Aaini Adalat.
01:56I think that when he himself is not saying this,
01:58we should not take it personally.
02:01Okay. This is very clear and it is very safe to assume and safe to say
02:07that he is not in favour of Aaini Adalat as we speak.
02:13It is clear that he is not in favour of Aaini Adalat.
02:15So, your opinion that Aaini Adalat should be established
02:19is not in his full support at this time.
02:22This is safe to say.
02:23Personally.
02:25Personally. Maulana has not yet had a chance to ask this question.
02:28Mr. Wasim, I respect the personal opinion of any political friend,
02:34any lawyer friend.
02:38But as I said, it is not a matter of personality or individuality.
02:42It is not a matter of individual thinking.
02:44It is a matter of collective thinking.
02:45If I take forward Mr. Kamran's speech,
02:50I would like to say that Mr. Kamran himself admits that the system is not ideal.
02:58The system needs to be improved.
03:01To improve that system, his personal opinion is that
03:04you should establish a bench.
03:06That is, he himself is not satisfied with this current system.
03:10The People's Party thinks that there should be a loyal court
03:13in which the judges of Punjab, Balochistan, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and Sindh are equal.
03:20There should be no difference in their balance.
03:22The People's Party thinks that instead of a Chief Justice
03:27coming from one province, one chamber or one school of thought,
03:32the People's Party thinks that there should be a rotation.
03:35And every province should have the right
03:38that its Chief Justice should be in the rotation.
03:41And sir, you have enough reasons to believe that
03:45Mr. Maulana's opinion on this is close to the People's Party's opinion.
03:50You asked a very interesting question to Mr. Kamran.
03:56Mr. Maulana himself says that a seniority principle should not be decided.
04:01Like Mr. Kamran said that his personal opinion is different.
04:06Right?
04:07Absolutely.
04:07I think you have focused more on that personal opinion in this interview.
04:14It should be done with collective thinking.
04:16And I think when there is political dialogue,
04:19when people sit with an open mind, with open minds,
04:23then they are able to create some success story.
04:27I believe that Mr. Maulana agrees with this concept.
04:33Mr. Maulana also agrees that we need to bring in a system
04:38that is balanced.
04:42The complete power should not be with just one person.
04:45Instead, it should be balanced and strengthened.
04:51Or we should strengthen a single person.
04:53So, you got the impression from meeting Mr. Maulana
04:57that he does not feel that there is injustice in the existence of the Constitutional Court.
05:01He does not deny this.
05:02He does not deny this.
05:04You have given your opinion.
05:06It is obvious that the Constitutional Court exists.
05:09And it also states that judges should not be elected on the basis of seniority.
05:13In fact, they should be selected from the panel.
05:16Mr. Wasim, my personal opinion is that
05:22when there is a decision, the seniority should be kept in mind.
05:27But Mr. Maulana has his own point of view.
05:31The present government has its own point of view.
05:33The People's Party has its own point of view.
05:36In fact, the present court also has its own point of view.
05:39When the Chief Justice was being appointed in the Lahore High Court,
05:42they did not appoint a senior judge.
05:45They bypassed the seniority
05:49and appointed the third judge as the Chief Justice of the Lahore High Court.
05:55Similarly, when the Supreme Court is elevated,
05:59there are many such examples.
06:01Whether it is the era of Mr. Ishtekhar Chaudhary,
06:03whether it is the era of Mr. Saqib Nisar,
06:05whether it is the era of Mr. Gulzar or Mr. Umrata Bandyal,
06:09the elevation of the Supreme Court
06:11did not bring the seniority principle to the fore.
06:14And by bypassing the senior judges,
06:19they elevated the junior judges on the basis of merit in the Supreme Court.
06:23So, this is something on which there are different opinions.
06:27Did you give your opinion in the consultation
06:29that the selection should not be done on the basis of seniority?
06:32In our consultation, we have mentioned the Judicial Commission of Pakistan.
06:37And in the Judicial Commission of Pakistan,
06:40we have basically given the representation of the judge,
06:44the representation of the government, the representation of the Bar
06:46and the representation of the Parliament.
06:48No, sir. The Judicial Commission of Pakistan is for the new judges
06:51who have come to the Supreme Court.
06:53Whenever the next Chief Justice comes,
06:56the selection is done on the basis of seniority.
06:59Should it remain the same or should the criteria change according to your opinion?
07:03Why does this happen, Wasim?
07:06Because in Article 176, it is written that the senior judge will be the judge.
07:11It is written in the constitution, right?
07:12Okay.
07:12So, who wrote this constitution?
07:14On the 18th amendment, this Parliament wrote it.
07:17Right.
07:18So, this Parliament, all the political parties will decide together
07:22that for the betterment of the country and for the betterment of this system,
07:26what can be the best formula?
07:29We are not fixated to any concept.
07:31But you have given your suggestion to the Chief Justice.
07:33In that suggestion, it is that it should be done on the basis of seniority.
07:37Our draft is silent on this point.
07:41Okay. You have...
07:43We have not written anything specific on this.
07:46Is your draft silent on the age limit?
07:50Our draft is on the age limit.
07:53Our point of view is that the minimum age for judges is set at 45.
07:58It should be reduced to 40, which was in the original constitution.
08:03And on the retirement age, we say that it is better to base it on tenure.
08:11That a term should be decided and retirement should be done on that term.
08:14From the point of view of the GUI,
08:16Mr. Maulana gave the example of Bangladesh when we were having discussions.
08:21He said that the age there is 67.
08:24The proposed age proposed by the government is 68.
08:28So, again, there is a different point of view on this,
08:32which can be reconciled by sitting down
08:34on what would be the best thing for the betterment of this system.