A Michelin Star Chef Explains The Business Of Fine Dining

Forbes

Charlie Mitchell, executive chef and coowner of the Michelin-starred Clover Hill in Brooklyn, New York sat down with Forbes Reporter Rosemarie Miller to talk about what it takes to own and operate a fine dining restaurant in the heart of New York.  0:00 Introduction 0:35 Being The First Black Michelin Star Chef In New York 3:45 Standing Out In The Culinary Business 5:17 Inflation's Impact On Running A Restaurant 9:04 How To Learn The Basics Of The Restaurant Business 10:50 A Day In The Life Of Charlie Mitchell 12:11 Tips For Other Restaurant Operators 13:05 Lessons Learned Along The Way 17:37 More Tips For Chefs   Subscribe to FORBES: https://www.youtube.com/user/Forbes?sub_confirmation=1  Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:  https://account.forbes.com/membership/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=growth_non-sub_paid_subscribe_ytdescript  Stay Connected Forbes newsletters: https://newsletters.editorial.forbes.com Forbes on Facebook: http://fb.com/forbes Forbes Video on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/forbes Forbes Video on Instagram: http://instagram.com/forbes More From Forbes:  http://forbes.com  Forbes covers the intersection of entrepreneurship, wealth, technology, business and lifestyle with a focus on people and success.

Transcript

00:00 Um, the hard way, to be honest, learn about making a lot of mistakes, you know, and I think as a cook,

00:05 always never being afraid to ask questions to like my chefs and my superiors.

00:09 But really, honestly, like I had to learn a lot. Once we open a clover Hill.

00:16 Hi, everyone, and welcome to new money where we talk to movers and shakers about how they made it.

00:26 I'm your host Rosemary Miller here with executive chef and partner of clover Hill,

00:31 Charlie Mitchell. Thank you so much for joining me today, Charlie.

00:34 Thanks for having me. So Charlie, you are the first black

00:38 Michelin starred chef in New York, and the second black Michelin starred chef in the US.

00:44 How does that feel?

00:45 It feels good. It feels good. Yeah, still getting used to it.

00:50 Although it's been a couple years, but like, yeah, it was just a lifelong goal of yours.

00:56 Um, which part?

00:58 Being a Michelin star chef?

01:00 Yeah, I mean, I don't know about lifelong, but definitely career, you know, like, I think it took,

01:04 you know, I didn't really understand what mission stars were until I was about,

01:08 I'll say 21. You know, after I already kind of started cooking, so I knew that I wanted to cook,

01:14 but I wasn't really sure that we're cooking was going to take me necessarily. Yeah. But once I

01:19 learned about, you know, accolades and some of the best restaurants in the world, it became like a

01:24 goal of mine. So what's the process like for those who don't know me, I don't know, of getting a

01:30 Michelin star?

01:31 Well, they won't give you the official process because that's a part of like, how it works. But

01:37 essentially, you know, you're rated anonymously by Michelin inspectors is what they go by.

01:45 And they grade you on a scale from one to three. And if you're lucky, you know, you could add it

01:53 to the guide. And then at the award ceremony, if they host New York City, they'll award you a star.

01:59 They'll award you a star. That almost sounds too easy.

02:03 But how has your life changed since all of this has happened?

02:07 Well, the biggest change is like the restaurant, right? Like the biggest change was,

02:13 you know, we got the star, I want to say eight months into being open.

02:20 And it really changed everything as far as like, you know, how people perceive this, how,

02:26 you know, people dine there, the kind of guests we got. It changed the kind of cooks that were

02:34 applying to the job and like serving staff, like everything really, you're really made everyone in

02:39 the industry kind of like see you as like a serious restaurant. And then for the people who

02:44 are even on the outside of industry that may not completely understand what a Michelin star is,

02:48 they at least think like, oh, it must be a fancy place or it must be really nice. So

02:53 it really changes how everyone views the restaurant. You know, that's like the biggest change.

02:57 And so you said the guests changed. Who was the primary audience?

03:01 Well, we're in Brooklyn Heights. So right out the gate, you get in like the neighborhood at first,

03:07 right? Like mainly people in the neighborhood, people in Brooklyn, maybe. And then you're

03:10 getting people sometimes who just like stumble upon it. They're like, I need something to eat

03:14 really quick. They're Googling what's in the area. Like those kind of people pop in, you know.

03:18 But I see like after the Michelin star, like everything is a lot more intentional. You know,

03:23 you have guests who are maybe they're just traveling to New York City or they're traveling

03:27 to Brooklyn or they're traveling to eat at Michelin star restaurants or they saw that I was

03:33 a chef and they want to come support me, you know. So like we see that every guest usually aren't

03:38 just like stumbling in now anymore. Like it has more intention behind it.

03:41 Is there like a wait list?

03:43 Sometimes.

03:44 So what do you think makes your food stand out? What sets it apart from another chef's food?

03:51 Well, that's that's tough, you know.

03:55 You know, but I think it's just the like the intention and the direction of the cuisine,

04:03 you know, like really making sure that, you know, we're using nice ingredients and we're using them

04:10 the best way we know how properly and then also trying to showcase some techniques. And then for

04:16 me, it's really important to bring like big flavors, you know. I think that bringing big

04:22 flavors really is what's going to make the meal more memorable, you know. And I think,

04:27 you know, we send out a lot of food these days. We're up to like things like 15, 16 bites of food.

04:33 And because it's so much, it's hard to know that what a person is going to remember at the end of

04:39 the meal. So it's just very important that it's memorable. So I think that the flavors are really

04:44 sets our food apart at the restaurant.

04:46 So do you ever just like suggest a meal or do you let people order like, no, no, no, don't get that.

04:52 I want you to order this.

04:53 Well, it's easy for me now because not everyone just gets the same thing, you know. So, yeah,

04:59 we used to do, you know, we used to do brunch. We did lunch, dinner. We used to do a la carte.

05:04 We had like a bar menu for a minute. And then we decided like, you know, we just we only

05:09 offer one menu and everyone gets the same thing. So now it's easy. It's just a taste

05:14 menu and everyone gets the same thing. And we don't have that conversation anymore.

05:17 So how has inflation impacted your restaurant? I mean,

05:21 we're seeing prices skyrocket in grocery stores all over.

05:25 Yeah, well, it's the same for us, you know, and it was actually

05:28 pretty crazy. And I think the biggest impact is just like mainly just on me with like food costing

05:36 and whatnot. Right. Because, you know, it's like the price of food is going up. But also what we

05:41 see is like people also charging more for like shipping or they're charging more for transportation

05:47 or they're like, oh, my gas is more expensive. So now your eggs are more expensive and things

05:50 like that. So it really made it hard to like cost properly because it also doesn't really

06:00 translate. Right. Like guests think they have an idea of like how much food should cost.

06:04 And if you're charging a certain amount of money, they can start to question, like,

06:07 why is this so expensive? And like, you know, you're not going to give them like a TED talk

06:10 in the middle of dinner service about why the eggs are now so expensive, you know. But

06:14 we think if you how I look at it, like if you can highlight the food properly, then like people

06:20 won't question it as much. But it really threw us off. I was saying the first year a lot. I'm like,

06:25 wow, like the price of food is going up. I remember eggs were going up like crazy.

06:28 And I was getting them from this farm in Pennsylvania. And I was like,

06:32 I have to stop buying eggs from you. Like because now they're like too expensive for me to serve

06:36 for this brunch and it doesn't work with the price point, you know. So you just have to always

06:40 adjust and like really watch the prices because they fluctuate a lot.

06:45 So about how long did it take you to really get it right after you're seeing, OK, prices are going up.

06:50 Something has to change over here. How long did that take?

06:53 It's really like living and breathing is constant. Right. It's not like one time. Right. Because

06:58 like each menu has a different. Like cost on us for ingredients. So it's really ongoing. And even

07:06 in the middle of the menu, like, for example, we use a lot of fish in Japan. Right. And like, yes,

07:14 they may tell me it's a certain price, but every now and then they will be like, it's a storm in

07:20 Japan. So now the fish is three more dollars a pound. And I'm like, well, that doesn't really

07:26 work. But you have to hope that it like balances out over the course of why you're serving that

07:30 dish. You know what I mean? So it's actually something that you have to pay attention to,

07:33 like every day. It doesn't like go away. Well, Charlie, maybe I missed this part, but

07:38 could you explain like in gross detail what you mean by different menus? There's always a different

07:44 menu. It's always changing. Right. So we change the menu four times a year now. OK. Right. We've

07:50 also raised our price point a little bit, but we do four times a year, completely seasonal changes.

07:56 And so, I mean, you're changing like your protein. So you're also changing like your

07:59 vegetables and like flowers or garnish or whatever it is. And like each menu and protein are so

08:06 different that you have to do the whole cost breakdown all over again. So every time and you

08:12 may say like, hey, I'm using, I don't know, lamb or bass or something like that. But and the margin

08:18 is pretty slim. And if it just like shoots up on you, then you have to like adjust it somewhere,

08:23 you know, so it's always moving. But at least four times a year, we have to do the whole thing all

08:28 over again. How time consuming is that? Very, you know, but if you sit down and just like do it,

08:37 it's not so bad. And then you build like a you kind of build like a system, right? Like we know

08:42 what we love to serve the most and we know what are like kind of frequent. So we kind of have like

08:46 a little number two years in now. So we have a little playbook on like, OK, we know who we're

08:51 getting this from, who we're getting that from and kind of like how we want to execute it. So

08:54 it's a little bit easier now. How to learn all of this? I mean, this seems like a business that,

09:01 you know, we're not learning this in school. Let's be real. We're not learning this. Right. So how

09:05 did you learn this? Learn how to operate a restaurant? The hard way, to be honest, learn

09:13 about making a lot of mistakes, you know, and I think as a cook, always never being afraid to ask

09:18 questions to like my chefs and my superiors. But really, honestly, like I had to learn a lot.

09:24 Once we open Clover Hill, you know, like I had to learn a lot of things the hard way,

09:31 but I was never too shy, you know, even at this point, you know, running my own restaurant,

09:35 I would still ask like my chef friends, like, what do they do to make it work? Or what do they do to

09:39 make it more efficient or like what's their setup? You know, so I'm really someone who like I'm

09:46 willing to ask for help, you know, and that takes me a long way. But I learned a lot just like

09:50 through working. Give us an example of the hard way. Of the hard way? You had to learn something

09:57 the hard way. Give us an example. Like for like a small example, a silly example, I always tell

10:05 people is like like trash, for example. Right. Like when you're a cook and you're just working

10:10 for other people, you don't realize how much it costs to get the trash picked up or something

10:14 like that. Right. And you're like, you know, why is my bill like a thousand dollars a month just

10:18 for trash? And like factoring that into like your operating costs is like what's crazy to me,

10:24 you know, and then getting really good at like protein. We get a lot of proteins that are like

10:32 whole, like whole fish that have like, you know, like the head and all that kind of stuff. And

10:36 like really learning how to like factoring in like waste and trim and things like that

10:42 into your costs was like something that I was not good at when we first opened. And your food

10:47 cost is like goes to the roof. And then you're like, oh, wow, this is learning the hard way.

10:52 So what is a day in your life like?

10:55 Well, it changes. But typically it's like wake up, check emails, make sure all the orders,

11:06 everything are in place for the restaurant. Make sure like the day is off to a good start.

11:10 Usually check in with the AM team who gets in around seven o'clock, just make sure like

11:14 they're good so I can like stroll in around eleven thirty. And then I don't think I try to

11:22 stay in the kitchen as long as possible. You know, like I'm not the kind of chef who like

11:26 I don't spend probably enough time doing all my office work and admin work. Like I just like to

11:33 exist with the cooks and get in there and prep and see what's going on and work on new food. And then

11:40 I probably work about twelve, thirteen hour day these days.

11:43 So do you assist with the hiring and the firing of people in the kitchen or is that

11:50 one of the other partners? Because it's three of you, right?

11:52 Yes, three of us. But anything like kitchen related, like I handle it all. Like some things

11:57 we handle together, right? Like if you're like you're firing someone or something that that kind

12:01 of like can be kind of shaky sometimes. So we handle those things together. But usually anything

12:07 kitchen top to bottom, like I have to handle it myself.

12:10 You do?

12:10 Yeah.

12:11 So what tips do you have for other restaurant owners and hiring kitchen staff?

12:17 Learn how to ask the right questions. You know, like I think, you know, a lot of times chefs,

12:25 we can get very like you just need a body. You know, it's so much work. You just need someone

12:30 here to do it. And I think I've learned that like you should take your time a little bit and like

12:34 really. You know, stay true to like an interview process, I'm learning that right and like make

12:39 sure they're a good fit. You know, we have a fairly small team, it's only eight of us.

12:43 And I had to learn like, you know, throwing like the wrong like personality bombs into a small

12:49 team. It's just like a bad idea, you know, so it really has to be like the right fit and like

12:54 taking my time on that is something that I feel very like passionate about. You know, I'll be

12:58 understaffed for a little bit before I just throw anyone in there, you know.

13:02 And Charlie, I don't know, your life seems interesting. So you're this boy from Detroit

13:06 who's in New York doing it. Okay, you are living your dreams. How did you get here?

13:12 How did I get here? I mean, you know, things had to align. You know, I've been in New York now

13:21 eight years. I worked for I think, a combination like good, great chefs who

13:29 I was able to like work closely with, like learn pretty quickly. You know, like when I moved to New

13:33 York City, I was I think, 24, 25. And I felt I was very behind because like, here, like the industry

13:39 is very, it moves very fast. And like kids are like coming out of culinary school and they're

13:44 like running circles around you. And it's kind of intimidating at first. So I just had to really

13:49 make sure that I was like, learning as much as possible, you know, reading cookbooks whenever I

13:54 had whenever I could and like showing that I was enthused and eager to learn very fast, you know,

13:59 and then I just worked at places that I felt were going to like inspire me and my style of cooking

14:04 over the last eight years. And, you know, then when I got the global opportunity, you know,

14:09 I didn't necessarily think I was ready, to be honest, to be like a head chef at that time,

14:13 you know, but I felt like, you know, like, if I'm not going to bet on myself, then like,

14:20 you can't expect someone else to, right. So I was like, what's the worst that could happen?

14:24 You know, so why didn't you think you were ready?

14:26 Well, I mean, in our career, traditionally, people train or work under chefs for years,

14:34 you know, maybe 5-10 years until they're ready to like run their own restaurant.

14:39 And I hadn't done that yet. I had been like, a high sous chef, but I hadn't been like,

14:44 a head chef for like operation of this, what we were trying to create.

14:49 And it was a lot unknown to me, you know, so I just didn't feel ready. Like I wasn't even sure

14:55 about my style of cooking and what I really want to cook. But I felt that I could figure it out.

14:59 So who saw you? Who knew that you had exactly what it took to seize this opportunity?

15:06 Well, I don't know if he saw that clearly. But so basically, how it happened was me and Clay,

15:18 one of my partners at the restaurant, and he's also like the GM, so we run a restaurant together

15:22 every day. We had a meeting, and we really didn't really talk about food too much. We didn't really

15:28 talk about what we want the restaurant to be. We just wanted to make sure that our goals were

15:34 aligned and like where we wanted our future careers to be. And we just both felt like we

15:38 were equally, you know, inspired and passionate and hungry at that time. And we were like,

15:44 all right, let's give it a try. So he just like took to this day. I'm like, you were crazy for

15:49 hiring me to do this job, you know, but, you know, it's worked out and more, you know, but he was a

15:55 person who's like, yeah, let's just let's do it. And I was like, OK, how did you meet Clay?

16:00 At the restaurant. So the original chef of Clover Hill before Covid happened was a friend of mine.

16:06 And I was actually a cook at the restaurant because I was trying to move out the country.

16:11 So I was like saving up some money, working a few jobs. And that's how I was introduced to the space

16:17 and the same ownership. And, you know, what, two and a half, three years later,

16:22 they were trying to reopen it. And he reached out to me and I really had an attachment to the space,

16:28 I'll say. I thought the building was like, just had like a good energy about it.

16:33 And then when I walked through, I was like, yeah, like this feels like it'll be right.

16:37 I think it can be dope. This is the right fit. So do you feel like you are living in your purpose

16:43 right now? I would say so. Yeah. Yeah. Why would you say so? I mean, you know, I get to do what

16:52 I love to do and, you know, have a fairly successful career. Right. Isn't that like

17:00 what we all kind of want? You did not just say fairly successful. You are very successful.

17:06 OK, don't get that twisted. Thank you. Yeah. But I think, you know,

17:11 you don't necessarily think that food can have like the greatest impact all the time, especially

17:17 when you're in fine dining, you just not really looked at as something that is having like an

17:20 impact because like it has a reputation of being like, you know, hard work and kind of wasteful.

17:25 Yeah. But I think, you know, being able to do what I love and also be representative for my

17:32 community as well is like a best case scenario. So what three tips of advice or three pieces of

17:39 advice would you leave for someone who wants to do what you're doing, wants to be a Michelin star

17:46 chef someday? Three tips. Well, number one, I would say focus on the craft,

17:53 like focus on the food. Right. That's going to take you where you want to go.

18:00 Be curious, ask a lot of questions, you know, from like people in the dining room,

18:04 ownership if you can, who's ever doing more of the business side, let's try to learn that as well.

18:10 And really like commit to it, I would say, you know, like I really committed to doing this

18:18 a long time ago and it didn't always make sense. You know, a lot of long days, long hours

18:23 as a cook where you don't make a lot of money and your chefs aren't always nice to you.

18:29 But just like just commit to it. And if you do, then like I think it'll pan out.

18:34 Well, Charlie, thank you so much for joining me today.

18:36 Thank you.

18:38 You.

18:38 Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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