The list is out and this week, Lewis, Ben and John dissect the SPFL's best player and managers of the year.
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00:00 [Music]
00:07 Hello and welcome to National World Football Talk, your nan's favourite football podcast Ken.
00:14 I'm your host this afternoon, Lewis Anderson joined today by Ben Banks and John Griehan of the Edinburgh Evening News.
00:21 Thanks for joining us gents this afternoon, we're going to be looking back over the weekend results
00:27 involving Celtic Rangers and Hibernian and also during the second part of the show look at the PFA Scotland
00:35 Player of the Year, Young Player of the Year and Manager of the Year nominations that have come out this week.
00:43 So firstly gents, let's get stuck into the weekend action starting, I guess we'll start in Paisley
00:51 given it was the lunchtime kick-off on Sunday, St Mirren 1 Rangers 2 I should say, a bit of a grind for Rangers
01:03 in this one, St Mirren again kind of proving exactly what we already know of them, incredibly difficult to break down
01:11 Stephen Robinson more than willing to kind of have a real go at Rangers. Ben, in terms of obviously
01:19 Rangers current position in the league title, from now on I guess it's a real case of them just grinding out the wins, winning
01:27 ugly, it doesn't matter how you do it, three points is the most important. Yes, but I think as well they would be
01:35 slightly concerned going into the Old Firm just with the way they're performing at the minute, because I think going into
01:41 the game at Ibrox, the narrative certainly was that it was Rangers' title to lose and that Rangers probably seen
01:47 as favourites going into that and if they'd won that, they'd have been nearly two games ahead if they'd won their game in hand.
01:53 All of a sudden they draw that game, fortunately pull it back from sort of draws of defeat, lose to Ross County, the draw with Dundee
02:01 and all of a sudden Celtic are probably the team now you would say are favourites, you would probably favour them as well for the game at Parhead.
02:07 Even the sort of performances on Sunday I thought, Rangers were quite laboured at times, seem to, certainly going forward
02:15 I know Siri Odessos has got amongst the goals a real enigma in that he's scored, he's approaching like 20 plus goals but he's also
02:23 missed umpteen chances he could have taken well beyond that. Jack Butland was forced into making two or three really good saves
02:31 and I think if St Mirren had taken a point, they probably felt that they deserved that because I thought they performed fairly well
02:39 whereas Celtic and Dundee, the difference was even when Dundee scored, I was at Dens, I never got the feeling that even when Celtic conceded
02:47 they were ever going to lose that game. So I think the result is obviously of importance but it's the manner of the way they're winning
02:57 they could really be doing against Kilmarnock this weekend, winning by a good few goals and sort of building confidence a bit
03:04 because I'm not necessarily sure the game it's St Mirren did that for them.
03:08 They probably aren't playing anywhere near the type of standard of football that we know Rangers are capable of.
03:14 John, just on Siri Odessos, yeah it's an interesting one, a kind of much maligned front man, he's 20 goals already for this season
03:23 he's obviously come in for a lot of criticism at times this season, he spoke rather interestingly post-match about how he feels
03:31 he's perceived by fans, maybe saying that he's not the most beautiful striker on the eye but certainly his numbers are there
03:39 do you feel he kind of almost deserves the amount of flack he's received?
03:44 Nobody in Scottish football deserves the flack they receive, that's what makes Scottish football so good
03:50 but it's hard to fight a feeling or a perception, I think he hit the nail on the head with that
03:56 there are guys who are just always going to be looked upon as that type of player, that type of player, maybe not
04:02 and you hear it with Celtic and Rangers a lot, there's no Rangers class, because he doesn't do everything
04:07 I think 20 goals, that should be your minimum, you know, if you're playing for Rangers in this league
04:13 I don't think anyone thinks this has been a classic season for the Scottish Premiership
04:18 I think neither Celtic or Rangers would be rushing out, whoever wins the title will be rushing out videos or DVDs or streaming
04:26 whatever they say, oh look at the highlights from this wonderful season, I think the standard's been ok
04:32 but not a year to write home about and I think Desser's maybe, you know you're talking about scoring those goals
04:38 but we've had strikers come into Scotland and score those goals from Motherwell or Shankland at Hearts
04:45 it doesn't necessarily, I'm not sure how much of a judge it is sometimes when you look at the Scottish Premiership this year
04:52 I think there's been a lot of bad goals, a lot of bad defending, a lot of crazy things going on
04:58 and I don't think when you look at the top two, you wouldn't be surprised if both of them dropped more points
05:04 Celtic's slightly better at the moment but it's not, it wouldn't be a shock, I don't think they're vintage classes
05:08 and I think that's probably why Desser's, to bring it back to that, is looked on slightly askance
05:15 or out of the side eye a wee bit from fans because they're like, he's alright, this isn't a great season, this isn't a great team
05:21 so they don't judge him accordingly
05:23 What did you make of Michael Stewart's comments post-match, kind of convinced that Rangers need to upgrade their attacking options next season
05:32 do you feel that's a fair comment Ben?
05:35 Probably, not so much just for Desser's, I think more the guys behind him
05:41 I think Fabio Silva has spent more time on the floor than he has trying to take shots at goal
05:47 and I can't really think of anybody that's backing them up fairly well
05:53 Cyril Desser, as much as he's been criticised, he's been by far and away the best Rangers attacker this season
05:58 because Seema, while he's looked decent when he's been fit, that's not been very often, certainly in the last six months
06:04 Ross McCausland isn't a goal scorer, so Cyril Desser probably plays into the amount of magnifying that's getting done around him as well
06:13 because he's having to take on so much responsibility because nobody else really is
06:17 and I think that's what Clermont's been speaking about in the last few weeks, he needs more players
06:22 he spoke about Mohamed Diomande being one of those players with the right mentality and taking on that responsibility
06:27 there's nobody really in the forward line who's doing that outside of Desser's really
06:32 he might score the most bizarre goals you've ever seen, but he's still doing that more than others around him
06:38 so yes, but probably the problems with Rangers is that strike force doesn't all revolve around Desser
06:45 they certainly need strengthening and they need at least one, if not two, in the summer
06:52 So with that victory in Paisley, that moved Rangers level on points, albeit for only a couple of hours
06:58 because Celtic go on and defeat Dundee by the same scoreline at Denz Park
07:04 James Forrest scoring both goals for Celtic, with Antonio Portales netting a consolation for Dundee
07:11 John, well, what a week it's been for James Forrest
07:16 all of a sudden we have players dropping out that Scotland scored willy-nilly by the looks of it through injury
07:22 and all of a sudden he's been thrust back into the limelight
07:26 and here we are potentially talking about him being included in Steve Clarke's squad for the Euros this summer
07:31 That's a remarkable comeback, probably a little bit of circumstance more than anything
07:36 I can just imagine there were quite a few Celtic fans looking at James Forrest in the line-up and going
07:41 "I can't believe we're still relying on James Forrest, this is ridiculous, we're still relying on James Forrest"
07:47 You know, quality is quality, quality will shine through
07:51 I don't think he would say he's as young or as quick as he was back when
07:56 but yeah, I'm not sure about taking him with Scotland, it'll depend on who else is available
08:01 but there's going to be options there aren't there?
08:05 There's going to be a few players in that Scotland squad who you might be surprised by I think
08:09 because it's such a big squad as well, I think there's going to be one or two you go "I hadn't really thought of that"
08:13 but yeah, look at those three injuries, aye, fair enough, that makes sense
08:17 And what is that, how many trophies has Forrest got now?
08:22 How many medals? 18, whatever, that's ridiculous
08:26 He's closing in on Billy McNeil's record, I think if he lasts another couple of seasons at Celtic
08:32 he'll become the most decorated Celtic player of all time
08:35 I mean, James Forrest is one of these ones I think
08:38 I think he's probably in that bracket of "they won't know what they've got until he's gone" type thing
08:43 I can say that for a lot of players but I think Sunday and the last week there's maybe been that wee added bit of appreciation for him
08:51 because he's still technically the best winger Celtic have got
08:53 I think that's been one of the issues for Celtic this season
08:56 as you look at Jota with this mercurial talent, sold for £25 million
09:01 you go to Nicholas Kuhn, Yang, who just aren't on that same bracket
09:06 whereas James Forrest, Brendan Rodgers spoke post-match, the legs probably aren't there like they were before
09:11 but technical-wise and the finishing prowess around the box is all still there
09:18 you just need to manage them right to get them in those positions most often
09:23 and Brendan Rodgers I think is doing a fairly decent job of that
09:26 he might not use them all the time but he has that wee bit of added weapon he can use when required
09:32 The problem with all older players is they get compared against their younger selves
09:37 and that's the issue and you have to remember just how good James Forrest was at his absolute peak
09:43 he was a Champions League player, he was an international player who would score goals
09:47 there were a lot of games when he was at his peak where Celtic would be really struggling
09:51 and it was like, well give the ball to James and he will do something
09:54 so he's maybe, he's still got a little element of that but this is the issue with older players
09:59 you start comparing them to what they were like as opposed to just appreciating them as you say
10:03 for what they are and you probably won't miss until he's gone
10:05 And touching on Hibbs then John, they were in action against St. Johnson on Saturday
10:11 beating them 3-1 at MacDermid Park, you were on the show last week saying that these games
10:16 obviously not much really for Hibbs to play for
10:20 obviously there was a lot of pressure on their shoulders given the board of directors
10:25 stating that missing out in the top six was fairly unacceptable
10:28 what was your take on the Hibbs performance?
10:31 I saw Paul Hanlon convinced that he had answered a few questions
10:35 what did he make of his comments post-match?
10:38 Yeah he's going to say what he's going to say and he's fair enough to have his opinion
10:43 I think a lot of Hibbs fans will think nothing they do in the final five games will make any difference
10:47 because you shouldn't be there and that's a really hard situation to be in
10:50 you shouldn't be there, don't go celebrating a win over St. Johnson
10:53 but the fact is St. Johnson were a bogey team and they beat them
10:57 so you have to celebrate the little victories when you can get them
11:01 it was extremely comprehensive in the victory
11:05 as comprehensive a performance as Hibbs vs St. Johnson at home a few weeks ago
11:11 when St. Johnson actually won against all kind of expectations and metrics
11:16 or whatever you want to call it, Hibbs had dominated that game
11:19 this time they dominated, they made St. Johnson look very, very average, below average
11:24 in the way they did it, they had moments of quality, the Emi Marcondez free kick was glorious
11:29 and you kind of, when you see it you're going how far out was that?
11:33 you can't bring yourself to sit and tell you watch it back on replay and go that actually was 30 yards
11:37 you know it's not like you're intended to think it's closer
11:40 Mazzani Malida just makes the game look easy some days
11:45 and on Saturday he did, his ability, I don't know how many nutmegs he got against St. Johnson players
11:50 but they weren't just nutmegs for the sake of nutmegs, it was nutmegs
11:53 and then he's gone
11:54 we're going to take a short break but stay tuned for more Fibber Talk
11:57 welcome back to National World Fibber Talk
12:08 gents we're moving on to the PFE Scotland nominees
12:13 that have been announced for the time of recording, this is Tuesday
12:17 looking back on yesterday's events that we attended
12:23 myself and Ben in Glasgow, the PFE Scotland player of the year nominees
12:29 we have Matt O'Reilly of Celtic, James Tavenier of Rangers
12:34 Lauren Shankland of Hearts and Jack Butland also of Rangers
12:39 gents we'll start with you Ben
12:42 any complaints about those four nominees and who would be your standout winner for player of the year this year
12:49 Shankland should win it and I think Bojan Majovski's got a case for being unfortunate to be left out
12:57 I think sometimes, I think you maybe looked at it last season when Kevin Van Veen was getting listed for awards
13:03 it was based on the fact of look at what he's doing in a struggling team
13:06 I think Bojan Majovski falls into that same boat of look at how many goals he's scored and look at his performances
13:12 he's in one of the worst Aberdeen teams in recent memory
13:15 who he comes out for I would probably say harshly James Tavenier
13:20 if you were to push him to show up I think Jack Butland had an amazing first season with Rangers
13:25 he's been everything they could have hoped for and more
13:27 and if James Tavenier was ever to leave Rangers in the near future and Butland stuck around I think he'd be the next Rangers captain
13:34 Matt O'Reilly, I think he came off the boil a bit after they spoke about that yesterday
13:40 about the transfer speculation impacting him but over the course of the season he's been really impressive for Celtic
13:46 but you can't look past Shankland's contributions to Hearts, he's closing in on 30 goals
13:51 he's a massive reason why they are going to get European football with the goals he's scored
13:57 but he's more than goals as well, he's all-round play, against Livingston most recently
14:04 I can remember watching him and he was dropping as deep as the halfway line to start plays
14:08 so he's also starting them and he's finishing them
14:11 so I think he's got a bit of a renowned name for being this penalty box striker
14:16 but I think he's shown he's more than that in this season particularly but bits of last season as well
14:21 and it's come on under Stephen Naismith
14:23 so it's been a bit of a weird quirk in terms of this award, I think only Michael Higdon has won it
14:28 outside of a Celtic and Rangers player since the 90s which is incredible
14:33 but I think if he's won Shankland this season I think he'll win them
14:39 John any complaints, do you feel there's any players that may be being hard done by here?
14:43 I think Miyovski's got a case for it, it's really hard to narrow it down to four
14:47 this is obviously voted for by the players and inevitably it comes on who gave you the biggest problems
14:53 sometimes isn't it, it's like who did you hate playing against this year
14:56 and I think you can probably see why those four are on there because if you're a striker
15:02 or someone who's taking shots you're like I'm really pissed off at Jack Buckland because he keeps saving
15:07 I can't believe what he keeps doing for me or you're left back and you think Tavenier has burned me every single time
15:13 so that's the way the thinking goes, I think Shankland, you almost feel like if you could use the Americanism
15:20 the MVP, most valuable player, so who's most important to the team there
15:24 and I think Shankland's importance to Hearts is greater even than the other three's importance to Rangers and Celtic respectively
15:31 I think without Shankland Hearts are just nowhere near the team they are
15:36 as Ben pointed out it's not just the goals, you can look at the goals, his all-round play
15:41 he's a cut above everything else they've got there
15:44 I think the other three are fine though, Buckland's been brilliant, I think Tavenier, again his importance to the team is massive
15:51 what he contributes with not even the numbers and assists and goals or taking penalties
15:57 it's the territory he gives his team, the way he enables them to start further up the park
16:04 because of the way he plays, he's hugely important
16:07 Riley, again I think that's a vote for people who's a class, class player and he's just class isn't he
16:14 the way he kind of floats and moves and turns and changes direction
16:19 I think players recognise that and they like that kind of stuff
16:22 they like a guy that they know, he's impossible to pin down, I really can't get near him
16:26 so I don't have any complaints about it and I wouldn't have any complaints if Shankland won it certainly
16:31 PFA Scotland have also just announced their Manager of the Year nominees
16:35 we've only got three this year gents, Derek McInnes of Kilmarnock, John McGlynn of Falkirk and Tony Daugherty of Dundee
16:44 Ben, three nominees this year rather interestingly
16:49 John McGlynn who of course more than merits a strong mention given that Falkirk are on track for an unbeaten league season
16:59 what were your thoughts on the three nominations here and who would you give it to?
17:03 I think these ones are fair enough, it's been a weird one with managers in that obviously Rangers and Celtic managers sometimes take precedence in this
17:10 but I don't think Brendan Rodgers' first season back has been particularly stellar as we've touched on
17:15 I mean it could be if they win the league in the Scottish Cup then the narrative probably changes a little bit
17:20 and Filipe Cloment's not been in for the full season
17:24 I think probably the only one who can feel a bit aggrieved to miss out Stephen Robinson is St Mirren
17:30 I think the work he's doing with the budget they've got there and where him and Keith Lasley behind the scenes have taken that club
17:37 since they've come in has been really impressive and they've got really good foundations now for the long term
17:44 about the three I think probably if I was to be pushed on it I'd probably go Derek McInnes just in that he's got Kilmarnock back to that place where they were under Steve Clarke
17:53 you can argue about whether one did it more impressively or not but he's got them back to that solid foundation of they're really difficult to beat, their home form's good
18:01 and again they've also got the foundations for longer term success
18:06 I think the difference with them, Kilmarnock looking ahead to next season probably most importantly is I don't necessarily see them as a team that's going to get ravaged during the summer in terms of exits
18:14 you look at some of the players that they've got and probably you would say Danny Armstrong, David Watson are probably the two who you would say
18:22 will be catching the eye of clubs, I can't really think, maybe Lewis Mayo as well but the rest of them have got a good backbone of a squad there alongside it
18:30 so yeah I would probably go with Derek McInnes although Donnie Daugherty's achievements at Dundee shouldn't be downplayed as well
18:37 they've had a really impressive season for his first year on the job
18:42 Yeah just touching on Daugherty, obviously a really good grounding working alongside Derek McInnes for so many years
18:49 obviously getting Dundee back in the top flight this season, top six in the first season back
18:55 very impressive achievements, John do you think he could seriously be a strong contender to win this prize?
19:03 I think he probably deserves to be on the list, I'm a huge John McGlynn fan just as a Ray Trovers fan starting
19:12 but having gotten to know him a little bit when he was there, his work rate and dedication is ridiculous, it's off the charts
19:20 trying to convince him to take a day off is a Herculean task for the people that employ him
19:26 I think he's done a remarkable job, it'll get ignored a little bit because of the league because he's down the leagues and they've got a decent side and a decent budget and everything
19:35 I think Derek McInnes, this is the proof of getting a good manager and then just letting him get on with it
19:42 and giving him a bit of time to do it because they could have gone well, you know, I'm not sure about it, we can jump ship, here we go
19:50 he was allowed to go in, he was allowed to see it out, he was allowed to build a team full of the players that he wants
19:57 the types of players he wants, he's like, this is the way I'm going to play, whatever you think of it, this is what brings success for me
20:05 it's no different if you're Pep Guardiola or Ange Postecau, or Derek McInnes, you have your style, this is your style of play
20:15 these are the guys I need, these are the pieces I need, and he was given the freedom and the ability to go out without spending huge money
20:21 but use the small budget really wisely to bring in players who could do what he wanted to do
20:27 be really strong at the back, get it wide, get good crosses in, big Vercel, putting them away
20:33 and they're just really, really effective at it, so I think he probably gets my vote if I had a vote
20:39 but you can't complain about the other two on the list, Tony's been great at Dundee
20:44 and, dare I say it, maybe Steven Naismith might feel a little bit aggrieved to be there, given that he's
20:51 you know, they're comfortably the third best team in the country, and I know people can talk about budgets
20:56 and you have to use your budget wisely, if you've got a big budget and you blow it, then you know
21:03 you'll easily back down where certain other teams are, in the bottom six, you know
21:10 you've got masses of squad because you've had five different managers in five years and you've blown it all on guys
21:16 that are now out on loan and will never contribute to the club, so yeah
21:20 I think that's the thing, sorry to cut you off John, but I think that's the thing, with Naismith there was a quote
21:25 from a team in the NFL that basically said, when they're going to the draft, that's just been over the weekend
21:32 that when you're coming to pick players, you might as well make the bold choices that you want
21:38 and if they make the bold choices, then you'll get praised for it, and if they go wrong, you'll get sacked anyway
21:43 so that's where Naismith has found himself, I think he's probably the other one that could feel aggrieved
21:50 it is hard to narrow it down, especially at three, you could argue Reece McCabe as well at Airdrie
21:55 it's been a great season for them, especially if they come up, so it's a hard one, but yeah Naismith is an interesting one
22:03 it'll be interesting to see how he does in his second season
22:05 And just finally then gents, briefly we'll touch on Young Player of the Year, we have David Watson of Kilmarnock
22:11 Lyle Cameron of Dundee, Ross McCausland of Rangers and Lennon Miller of Motherwell
22:18 Gents, just briefly, who would you give your vote to here and your reason for why that is the case?
22:25 David Watson, because he's been consistent throughout the full season for Kilmarnock
22:30 but a notable mention for Lennon Miller, who I think technically has been the most impressive of them
22:34 and probably would have won it had it not been for his knee injury that ruled him out for the three months
22:38 Yeah I'm going to go with Watson as well, but again this is skewed by what games you watch all the time isn't it
22:44 and you can watch highlights, but just every time they've played him he's been an absolute nightmare for him
22:51 I like loads about him, I love his attitude, I love that he can play as well, I think he should probably deserve it
22:59 but honourable mention to Ross McCausland for having to cope with the pressure of playing for Rangers
23:04 and I don't think any of the other young players can possibly understand what that's like
23:08 the matter of the goodwill that fans feel to young players who come through, there's a huge huge expectation
23:13 I think he's handled that pretty well considering his age and relative inexperience
23:19 All four worthy contenders, my vote personally I'm going for Lennon Miller just purely on the fact that
23:23 on the occasions that I have seen him this season, particularly against Rangers and Celtic
23:28 he's been outstanding, a really young lad, fairly experienced head on his shoulders
23:35 I think he's obviously transitioned into the Motherwell first team fairly seamlessly
23:41 and yeah he gets my vote
23:43 That's all we've got time for on this week's episode of Fibber Talk, stay tuned for our next episode
23:49 [Music]