"We have to strengthen our institutions for a better future", Mohsin Shahnawaz Ranjha
"We have to strengthen our institutions for a better future", Mohsin Shahnawaz Ranjha
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00:00 Rana sahib, will the political parties' character change or will it remain the same?
00:04 Because you should also be told that you play ball, you give your shoulders.
00:10 Look, the role of political parties is simple, the concept of separation of power, that concept
00:23 has to be prevailed.
00:25 But there are many controversial issues that go away from the Parliament in front of the
00:32 judiciary.
00:33 And the judiciary has to show its nerves there and the judiciary has to enforce its supremacy
00:41 and implementation of law and constitution.
00:44 And there it has to show an unbiased attitude.
00:48 So there are many such issues that politicians cannot resolve among themselves.
00:55 But politicians will definitely resolve the issues among themselves, if they hold their
01:03 own beard, they will not solve their problems in the Parliament.
01:08 Like you see, Mr. Perican says that we have to talk, we have to talk, we will talk directly
01:14 to the army, we will talk to all the people sitting in the Parliament or whatever process
01:19 is there, we do not believe it, we will talk there, this is also a wrong attitude.
01:24 So this happens in the past, in the past when we wanted to talk to them, at that time some
01:29 of us say this too.
01:30 So this is a whole history, but if we want to correct our future, then we will have to
01:35 strengthen our own institutions, politicians, Parliament.
01:38 And you will have to stop making deals, sir.
01:41 When you make a deal somewhere, then you have to listen to them.
01:46 Let's be honest, when you do it, you have to listen.
01:49 You must know, you must know.
01:51 Absolutely know.
01:52 So tell me, if politicians have to negotiate, then why don't they do it among themselves?
01:58 Look, I will talk about this as a matter of principle, Mr. Kashid.
02:02 If an institution has to do something, then it should do the same thing as it is written
02:07 in the constitution.
02:08 This is the solution.
02:09 What do you think?
02:10 I am talking about you as a political party.
02:13 As a political party, we have not stated that we have to talk to the army chief or we have
02:19 to talk to the establishment to sort out all the mess.
02:21 Why can't you talk to the government?
02:23 Look, talking to the government is on principle issues.
02:25 For instance, if they have to bring some legislation for independence of judiciary, then we have
02:31 to talk to them.
02:32 We are so ups and downs, we are sitting to correct that.
02:35 But look, it is important for the charter of democracy that your basis is also correct.
02:43 If a government…
02:44 If we start talking to them, then the problem will be solved.
02:47 Look, listen to me.
02:48 In 2018, they used to say that your basis is not correct.
02:50 Why do you say that?
02:51 Today, you are saying that your basis is correct.
02:53 Listen to me.
02:54 If you have taken 70 to 75 seats from form 45, then it is a mandate of the people.
02:58 If you have stolen it and you are sitting on its basis, then you…
03:01 Tell me, is Shabaz Sharif Sahib running the government?
03:04 Can he appoint an IG of his choice in Islamabad?
03:07 Can he appoint a chairman CDA?
03:09 Madam, you can do it in Punjab.
03:10 You tell me.
03:11 And whose candidate is Mohsin Naqvi Sahib?
03:13 That's besides the point.
03:14 Sir, you point out their mistakes.
03:17 You should apologize to the president.
03:19 No, no, listen to me.
03:20 I am coming out of the PTA issue.
03:21 I am talking to you as a matter of principle.
03:23 Sir, principle…
03:24 Look, I am talking to you.
03:25 I am talking to you right now.
03:26 You, until and unless, if you come out of the role of your institution,
03:32 then this country will not be fine.
03:34 This is the solution.
03:36 And this is our position in this.
03:37 We don't want to sit with the establishment and talk to them or make a deal with them.
03:40 We say that the judiciary should be independent.
03:43 If the judiciary is independent, then we believe that Mr. Khan will come out in 2 to 3 days.
03:47 The way…
03:48 No, the thing is that we have to make sure that all of them are in their places.
03:51 The judiciary has to do it itself.
03:52 The independence will have to be taken by the judiciary itself.
03:54 You people are saying that today the Chief Justice was talking about legislation.
03:57 He was talking about it repeatedly.
03:58 When did Mr. Azam have to agree?
04:00 He was very adamant.
04:01 I will tell you.
04:02 No, no, Mr. Khan, tell me about the constitution.
04:03 No, no, look at the constitution.
04:04 Isn't the judiciary independent in the constitution?
04:06 It should be.
04:07 It is not being implemented.
04:08 The problem is that you can make as many laws as you want.
04:10 Pakistan is an overly legislated country.
04:12 Absolutely.
04:13 You have made big laws.
04:14 All the laws.
04:15 There is no implementation.
04:16 I am saying the same thing.
04:17 The judiciary is an independent institution in your constitution.
04:19 The problem is that no one agrees.
04:21 Your institutions are not working within the limits of their constitution.
04:23 This is the problem.
04:24 There are laws, there is a constitution, there are fundamental rights, but no one knows where they are.
04:29 It is not being implemented.
04:30 When Mr. Athar said that in 2016-17, the Chief Justice of Pakistan should legislate,
04:35 Mr. Athar said that there is no benefit of legislation.
04:37 He said that no, we will have to legislate.
04:38 He asked Tony Jones that in 2016-17, you will be in power.
04:42 He said yes.
04:43 He said that you could not stop the interference or whatever meddling was happening.
04:47 He said no.
04:48 He said that it will not happen by making laws.
04:50 Even if you make laws, who will implement them?
04:53 Even today, you know that laws are made for everything.
04:55 Even if someone refuses to agree, what can we do about it?
04:57 But why don't they sit together?
04:58 Mr. Ranjal, Mr. Niazi are sitting together.
05:01 Politicians sit together and solve their problems.
05:03 Only then will the country move forward.
05:04 Kashif bhai, I think the biggest deadlock in this political system,
05:09 I am sorry to say, is due to the attitude of the justice movement.
05:12 The justice movement did not show willingness to sit with any political party.
05:17 There were big incidents where they could have sat together.
05:20 And it was necessary to sit together.
05:22 When Pakistan-India war broke out,
05:24 even in that environment, they refused to sit together with the opposition.
05:27 General Bajwa had to come and brief all the opposition leaders.
05:30 So, your attitude is that you have made them other,
05:35 made them otherization, made them thieves, dacoits,
05:38 and have become so hostage to your narrative that
05:40 if we sit with them, what will our people say to us?
05:45 Will you remain a hostage to them?
05:48 That we will not have any answer?
05:50 You will have to get out of these things.
05:52 People will not say anything.
05:53 If they understand that you are sitting to correct the principles,
05:55 to correct the foundations of this country,
05:57 to correct its system.
05:59 No, then you are sitting to delay social media.
06:01 If you sit to delay, then people will not believe.
06:03 Tell the parties to turn off social media for six months.
06:05 No, no, no.
06:06 Let people speak.
06:07 You have made people a little bit free.
06:09 Sir, you are right.
06:10 The truth that people are getting to know,
06:12 they don't even want to know.
06:13 But Kashi, don't create that narrative
06:15 that things will be resolved by reconciliation.
06:18 I think reconciliation can be done.
06:21 They don't want to do it.
06:22 So, politicians,
06:23 you are in this system.
06:24 I can say this from a distance,
06:27 I can say this with pride,
06:29 that Mian Nawaz Sharif's heart is not in this system.
06:32 He is sitting in this system under compulsion.
06:34 I can say this with pride.
06:36 And he says that if we had moved,
06:37 they would have dealt with it.
06:38 This fear will be lost.
06:40 I can say this with pride,
06:41 that Bilawal is also unhappy today.
06:43 His politics,
06:45 his conversation,
06:46 there was no discussion left
06:47 when you come into power.
06:49 So, these big figures
06:51 want us politicians to sit together,
06:54 to set our red lines,
06:56 to set our borders.
06:57 Only then you can talk to the establishment.
06:59 I am giving you 20 seconds.
07:01 This is a method of settlement,
07:02 because you don't have the lynchpin.
07:03 You are the other party now.
07:04 The rest are sitting in the government.
07:05 They are negotiating,
07:06 not because we have to forgive someone,
07:08 leave someone's case,
07:09 accept someone's corruption.
07:10 No.
07:11 You can say this first
07:12 that we will not compromise on any principle.
07:13 But to set the foundations of this country,
07:15 to set the system,
07:17 we will sit with them.
07:19 Sir, if they want to sit together
07:20 to end interference,
07:22 then we are more than welcome to sit.
07:24 We are absolutely ready.
07:25 This is announced as interference.
07:26 When it comes to...
07:27 Interference in elections,
07:28 Dhandli and Visha Kauri.
07:29 Sir, tell me,
07:30 Mr. Akhilesh, tell me.
07:31 Mr. Akhilesh, wait, tell me.
07:32 If there is no interference,
07:34 then do you think that
07:35 the popular Pakistan system
07:37 is needed by someone?
07:39 We know that if there is no interference,
07:40 then there is no election.
07:41 Then we can win the two-thirds majority.
07:43 I am saying this.
07:44 If we set the foundations,
07:47 to keep them within our limits,
07:49 if we do not allow elections,
07:51 then absolutely.
07:52 Keep this too.
07:53 When you sit,
07:54 we will do an election audit
07:55 of ten seats.
07:56 What will you say?
07:57 We don't want to do it?
07:58 No, no.
07:59 The first thing for this is
08:00 existence acceptance.
08:02 You accept the existence
08:03 of other political parties
08:04 in Pakistan.
08:06 When you accept that,
08:07 It is always wrong.
08:08 But it is there.
08:09 No, no.
08:10 It is ground reality.
08:11 It is wrong, but it is there.
08:12 You say that
08:13 the existence parties are not in Pakistan.
08:15 Or PMLN is not there.
08:16 Or there are no political parties.
08:17 No, no.
08:18 When you want to talk to them,
08:19 then you go into a broad framework.
08:21 That this is separation of power.
08:23 This is the future.
08:24 This is the election.
08:25 We have to control this.
08:26 We don't want to go.
08:27 And do one thing,
08:28 that we will not do
08:29 such an elevation in the judiciary.
08:32 Or we will support that thing.
08:33 And then the system will be fine.
08:34 We will sit down and the system will be fine.
08:36 We will sit down and the system will be fine.
08:37 I want to take a break.
08:38 Set the line.
08:39 We will sit down and the system will be fine.
08:40 Everyone has seen today
08:41 where the problems are.
08:42 [END PLAYBACK]