First Ministers Questions Thursday May 09 2024
First Ministers Questions Thursday May 09 2024
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00:00The next item of business is First Minister's questions and at question number one I call
00:04Douglas Ross. Thank you Presiding Officer. Yesterday parents in Glasgow were protesting
00:11cuts to teacher numbers. They say they're fighting for their kids' education because
00:17these cuts will make it, in their words, impossible for schools to support pupils properly.
00:24In Glasgow, over 100 teachers have already gone and it's proposed that number will rise to 450.
00:33Across Scotland, teacher numbers have declined for two years running and a new Scottish Government
00:39report, published this week, suggests that the SNP may abandon its manifesto pledge
00:45to increase teacher numbers by 3,500. The First Minister made that promise
00:53when he was education secretary, so will he be honest with pupils, parents and teachers today?
01:01Is he going to stick to his promise to increase teacher numbers by 3,500 in this Parliament?
01:12The commitments that have been given by the Government in relation to teacher numbers
01:16are commitments that have been given in good faith to strengthen the provision
01:21of education in Scotland. I want the Government to work with our local authority partners to
01:26deliver on those commitments. The approach that we take is hugely dependent on the resources that
01:34we have available. The Government has obviously taken steps to expand the resources that we have
01:40available to us. If the Government had not taken the tax decisions that it has taken,
01:45we would be over £1 billion worse off in relation to the funding that we have available.
01:51I have to answer Mr Ross's question about the challenges that we face in the public finances
01:58due to the pressures of inflation and the persistence of austerity that is framing
02:05public expenditure from the United Kingdom Government. I assure Mr Ross and parents,
02:11most importantly in the city of Glasgow and around the country, of the Government's commitment to
02:15sustained investment in education and to maximise the investment that we can make available.
02:21Of course, that was not my question. The question was very specific, on a specific pledge that was
02:31not made by any other SNP MSP but was made by the First Minister. He was the education secretary
02:37who went to the country and told people,
02:39vote for the SNP—trust me—and we will increase teacher numbers by 3,500 in this Parliament.
02:47If I am not convinced, I do not think that any parent, pupil or teacher will be convinced
02:52with that answer from John Swinney today. We were supposed to have a different style
02:56of politics, but it sounds as though the excuses are the same as we have had before.
03:02Sadly, John Swinney's record in education is one of broken promises. He introduced a flagship
03:08education bill that could have improved standards, but then he abandoned it. He promised a free
03:14laptop to every child, but that never happened. Three years ago, the SNP said that Education
03:22Scotland would be reformed, but nothing happened. The Government that he served in
03:29promised that the SQA would be replaced, but it is still there.
03:35On teacher numbers, can he just give a straight yes or no answer? Is he going to stick to his
03:42pledge to increase teacher numbers across Scotland by 3,500 in this Parliament,
03:48or will it be more of the same broken promises from John Swinney and the SNP?
03:57On the question of education delivery, I will put a few things on the record of what
04:02this Government has achieved. When we came to office in 2007,
04:0763 per cent of children and young people were being educated in good or satisfactory buildings.
04:13That figure today is 93 per cent. It is a transformation of the educational estate in
04:19Scotland. We have allocated £145 million to support the recruitment of teachers in partnership
04:31with local government. Those are some of the things that we have delivered. The reform programme
04:37in Education Scotland and in the Scottish Qualifications Authority is being implemented,
04:43but those are issues that I have just come back into office, so I will be looking very carefully
04:47at the progress that has been made in that respect. I have not been on the Front Bench for
04:5312 months or so, so I will be getting much closer to all of that.
04:57On the question of the commitment to 3,500 teachers, I want to be absolutely clear with
05:05people in Scotland today. We face very significant financial pressures in Scotland in our public
05:12finances. The perspective on public finances has deteriorated because of the effect of austerity,
05:22because of the cuts that have been made in public expenditure and because of the very
05:27significant inflation that we have had to wrestle with, which has resulted in teachers, for example,
05:34becoming the best-paid teachers in the United Kingdom as a consequence of our decisions.
05:40The Government will take forward its programme within the resources that are available to us,
05:45but I have to make it clear to people—to be straight with the public, which I will be—that
05:50public finances are under enormous pressure, and we will set out our commitments as we take
05:55our budget decisions. I would quite like John Swinney to be clear and straight with this
06:05Parliament. I will ask the question for a third time and, I hope, get a response.
06:11John Swinney, as education secretary, made a pledge to voters across Scotland
06:17that, if they voted for him and the SNP, they would increase teacher numbers across Scotland
06:22by 3,500 over the course of this session of Parliament. Is that going to happen—yes
06:27or no? A clear and straight answer from John Swinney is what is needed, because he has been
06:34education secretary in a previous Government. From 2016 to 2021, he was education secretary
06:40of Scotland. During that time, education was supposed to be the SNP's top priority.
06:46It wanted to be judged on education, but when he was in charge, Scotland's schools
06:52and the results therein fell to record lows in the OECD's PISA rankings.
06:57Those tests measured performance in maths, reading and science, and, on all three,
07:04Scotland's scores declined substantially when John Swinney was education secretary.
07:09Why did Scotland plummet down international school league tables
07:13on his watch? For the third time, I hope that he will get an answer. Will he say to the people
07:18of Scotland whether he will keep his promise to increase teacher numbers by 3,500?
07:22I have nothing to add to what I have said to Douglas Ross about the financial position that
07:33we face. The financial position is acutely challenging and difficult, and it is different
07:41from the position that we faced in 2021 and back in 2016. There has been a rampant
07:53increase in inflation on the watch of the Conservative Government.
07:57Let us hear the First Minister.
07:59If inflation rises—
08:05This is elementary arithmetic, Mr Hoy, and we are going to have to go through some elementary
08:10arithmetic to help you out with understanding the answer.
08:14If inflation rises by 10 per cent, the value of money available to spend reduces.
08:32I want to make sure that we have a well-supported and substantial teaching profession,
08:38but I have to live in the real world of the public finances available to me,
08:43despite the fact that the Conservatives oppose every single tax change that we have made
08:49to boost the public expenditure that is available in Scotland.
08:54The Government will take those decisions in the proper course of its budgetary process.
09:01When I was education secretary, teacher numbers rose. They rose during my term in office as
09:08education secretary. One of the things that I am most pleased about—I cannot claim all the credit
09:14for this, because my successors have delivered it since 2021—is that record positive destinations
09:20are being achieved by young people in Scotland. That is a tribute to the strength of the education
09:25system in Scotland.
09:27Douglas Ross
09:33John Swinney wants to give credit to his successors as education secretary.
09:38We have had 250 fewer teachers in Scotland in just the past two years. He is not being
09:45straight with the public about whether he agrees or not with his own promise to increase them
09:50by 3,500 in this Parliament, but we know that they are already going down. Teacher numbers
09:55across Scotland are falling under an SNP Government. I am sorry, but John Swinney is
10:01reaching out across parties to seek consensus and working together. Some of that has to come from
10:07him. He has to be honest and give a straight answer. For the fourth time today, will he,
10:16as First Minister, commit to the promise that he made to the people of Scotland to increase
10:21teacher numbers by 3,500? It is not difficult to say yes or no. Explain why it is no,
10:27but tell people, be honest and say that he is not going to do it.
10:31As education secretary, John Swinney went from one failure to another. His implementation of
10:37the SNP's curriculum for excellence was a mess—he is smiling at that. It was a mess, Mr Swinney.
10:43He was at the centre of multiple SQA fiascos. Again, it is not something to laugh about.
10:49He broke promises to improve the exam system. He was supposed to close the attainment gap
10:56entirely, but he failed. He damaged Scotland's international reputation for education.
11:03For 16 years, John Swinney has been at the heart of a Government that has let down pupils,
11:10parents and teachers. Now that he is the head of that Government, what is going to change?
11:20What is not going to change is the script that we get from Douglas Ross.
11:30Let us talk about some of the achievements that were made in education today on the most recent
11:35data. Record levels of literacy and numeracy attainment at primary school and improvements
11:41in secondary school were recorded in the curriculum for excellence data on 12 December.
11:46There is a record low attainment gap between the proportion of pupils from the most and least
11:51deprived areas achieving the expected levels in literacy and reductions at secondary level.
12:02In the summer of 2023, we had the highest ever number of passes at national 5,
12:07a tremendous achievement by the children and young people of Scotland, and a record number
12:13of vocational and technical qualifications were achieved. In 2023, higher and advanced
12:19higher pass rates were higher than those achieved in 2019. I am going to be straight with the public
12:27of Scotland—I am going to tell them it the way it is. I am going to be clear that we are under
12:32enormous financial pressure, and my Government is going to have to come to Parliament with
12:41information about the challenges that we face in the public finances. We will be doing that
12:46in due course. I have only been the First Minister for 48 hours—not even 48 hours—but
12:52we will be coming to Parliament to be straight about the challenges that we face. I will also
12:57be straight with the people of Scotland about the successes that this Government has delivered,
13:01and which we are very proud of.
13:04The last two weeks have been all about managing the SNP and have had nothing to do with running
13:14our country or delivering for Scotland. However, politics is not a game. Decisions made by
13:20Government have consequences, and the effects of those decisions over the past 17 years
13:26are playing out in communities across the country. The decisions that John Swinney made
13:31as finance secretary and education secretary are being felt by pupils, parents and teachers.
13:37Since 2007, Scotland's education standards have declined and teacher numbers have fallen.
13:43The Government claims that it is fully funding councils, but its own SNP-led council in Glasgow
13:49has made a decision to cut 172 teachers this year and 450 teachers over the next three years.
13:57A direct and simple question is whether the Government will step in
14:00to save those teachers' jobs and protect young people's education.
14:08The first point that I want to make is that the events of the past two weeks have been
14:16traumatic for my party. I accept that. They have had everything to do with running the country,
14:24because I am now here to lead this Government with the firmness of direction that it needs
14:28to address the problems facing the country and to achieve our objectives. That is what I am here to
14:35do. On the question of attainment, I have gone through with Mr Ross some of the strengths that
14:44exist in Scottish education today, and we will continue to improve that performance and support
14:51the education system to do so. We will work collaboratively with local government on that
14:57agenda, because local authorities and the City of Glasgow Council are responsible for the delivery
15:03of education in our communities. I will meet the leadership of the Convention of Scottish
15:08Local Authorities on Friday, immediately after the first meeting of the Cabinet, because I put
15:12the greatest importance on working in partnership with our local authorities.
15:17One of the most critical points about working in partnership with local authorities
15:22is that we work collaboratively. I would have members of Parliament in here complaining all
15:27the time if I instructed local authorities what to do, and I will not be doing that.
15:36John Swinney needs to confront the challenges that he has created over the past 17 years
15:42in local government and education. I was with the Glasgow City Parents Group and many of the
15:48teachers affected yesterday. This cut in Glasgow will hit people in the most deprived communities
15:54the hardest. The very same working-class kids whose grades John Swinney, as education secretary,
16:01attempted to downgrade shamefully during the Covid exams scandal.
16:06Of the teachers I met, one told me that they had retrained two years ago and were now going to lose
16:11her job. Another teacher has not been able to get a permanent contract since he qualified,
16:17and a third said that that does not feel like the thanks and reward that the Government promised
16:22them coming out of the pandemic. John Swinney bears responsibility for the broken finances
16:28in our councils and the decimation of our education system. Do not give us the warm words.
16:34Do not try to explain away the record. Tell the pupils, their parents and their teachers
16:40what they are going to do to protect their education.
16:47It is very important that we have an open discussion about the choices that face public
16:53authorities and public bodies. One of the issues that has faced Glasgow City Council,
16:59which has cost the city council a formidable amount of money, has been the resolution of
17:04the equal pay disgrace that was presided over by the Labour Party when it ran Glasgow City Council.
17:17Women in our society, for many years, were persistently let down. The Labour Party,
17:25in running Glasgow City Council, went to the courts to challenge the legitimate claims of
17:32low-paid women in the city of Glasgow. It is something that the Labour Party should be utterly
17:37ashamed of. I understand the challenges that face Glasgow City Council. That is why I will engage
17:51constructively with Glasgow City Council and with the convention of Scottish local authorities
17:56when I meet the convention on Friday.
17:58Clearly, there is no answer for parents, pupils and teachers in Glasgow, but just
18:06obfuscation from the First Minister. Let us look at John Swinney's record. As finance secretary,
18:13he broke local finances and slashed the budget for local services. As education secretary,
18:18he abandoned teachers, standards declined, the attainment gap widened, Scotland fell
18:24in the international league tables and, shamefully, he downgraded the results of
18:29working-class children during the pandemic. Now, as First Minister, he is trapped by the past,
18:35defending his own record while Scotland's children pay the price.
18:39Scotland once had an education system that was the envy of the world. I believe that we can
18:45get there again, but continuity will not cut it. To give our young people the education and
18:50opportunities that they deserve and to unlock the huge potential of our nation,
18:55Scotland needs fresh leadership, new ideas and change. After being at the heart of every single
19:02SNP failure for the past 17 years, why does John Swinney think that Scotland should accept
19:08more of the same?
19:14I have good news for Anas Sarwar. The fresh leadership has just arrived.
19:20I am right here to deliver it.
19:50They are laughing because they are delighted that I am here to do it. That is why they are laughing.
19:59They are over the moon that I am here. They sent me here. They were all behind it.
20:08The people did send me here, Mr Sarwar. The people have sent me here on every election
20:14that I have had my name on the ballot paper. My constituents have sent me here.
20:21In 2007, the people sent us into government. In 2011, they sent us into government.
20:28In 2016, they sent us into government. In 2021, they sent us into government.
20:33And in 2026, under my leadership, they will send us back into government as well.
20:39In his absence of cheerfulness escapade today, I point out to Mr Sarwar that I think Scotland
20:53has a very good education system, and we will continue to improve it in the years to come.
20:58The Scottish Greens have been clear that we acknowledge the SNP's right to form a minority
21:10Government, but we have been equally clear that the First Minister must quickly give a signal
21:16of the direction that his Government will take. Yesterday, that signal came pretty clearly.
21:23Progressive ministers sacked, and the second most powerful job in government was given to
21:29someone who has opposed LGBT people's legal equality, who has expressed judgmental attitudes
21:34against abortion and who has even expressed the view that people who have families without being
21:39married are doing something wrong. Is that the Scottish Government's vision for the future of
21:45Scotland, taking us back to the repressive values of the 1950s?
21:52No, it is not, and it is not the direction of the Scottish Government.
21:56The Government will be led from the moderate left-of-centre position that I have always
22:02occupied, which is the policy position of my party and which is supported by all our members.
22:09I set out last Thursday—a week ago today—when I announced my candidacy for the leadership of my
22:18party that I wanted to build on the work of the Scottish National Party Government to create a
22:23modern, diverse and dynamic Scotland that will ensure opportunity for all our citizens. On
22:29Tuesday, I made it clear to the people of Scotland in my closing words and in my speech of acceptance
22:36that I offer myself to be the First Minister for everyone in Scotland,
22:41and that is precisely what I will do.
22:43I am not yet sure that the First Minister acknowledges or understands just how worried
22:53many LGBT people and others are in Scotland at the moment. However, this is not only about
22:59equality and human rights that are at stake here, because the new Deputy First Minister
23:03has also explicitly criticised the role of fairer progressive taxation. Making sure that people on
23:10high incomes pay their fair share is the only way that the Scottish Government has been able to
23:16afford investment in climate and nature, cheaper public transport or the Scottish child payment.
23:23Without fairer tax policies, which the Greens repeatedly had to push the SNP into supporting,
23:30these things simply could not have happened.
23:32Next year, whether it is the Tories or the Labour Party, we know that the UK Government
23:37will continue with austerity, imposing deeper cuts than ever on Scotland. Does the First Minister
23:43accept that continuing on the path to progressive taxation will be more important than ever?
23:51Will that progress continue, or will the First Minister give in to the right wing of his party?
23:57As a matter of history and record, the Deputy First Minister was responsible
24:08for introducing progressive taxes in Scotland. Kate Forbes took those budget decisions,
24:13sought the agreement of the Cabinet and they were put to Parliament. I welcome the fact that
24:18our colleagues in the Green Party supported the measures that the Government brought forward.
24:23I think that it is pretty clear that Kate Forbes has delivered progressive taxation.
24:33Kate Forbes has also, by delivering the approach to progressive taxation, delivered measures such
24:40as the Scottish child payment, which is taking 100,000 children out of poverty. To me, that is
24:49to be warmly welcomed across our country. It supports the mission of my Government
24:54to eradicate child poverty. I take very seriously the challenge that Mr Harvie puts to me. I want
25:00people to be reassured in this country by my leadership. When I say that I want to be the
25:06First Minister for everyone in Scotland, I deeply mean that. I want to lead a modern, dynamic and
25:14diverse Scotland that is a place for everybody, where everybody feels at home and at peace,
25:20that they have a place and that their place in our society is protected by my leadership of this
25:25country. To ask the First Minister what support the Scottish Government is providing to women
25:35in enterprise. The Scottish Government is committed to implementation of the pathways report,
25:42which looked at how best to support women in entrepreneurship
25:45can be delivered and addressed the barriers that they continue to face.
25:49We have allocated £1.5 million this year to support that work,
25:53building on the £1.3 million invested through the pre-start-up fund last year.
25:59I thank the First Minister for his response. I recognise the efforts made with the 2023
26:04pathways report and hope that any funding can continue on a sustainable basis.
26:10Figures from the Federation of Small Businesses in 2018 suggested that women-led businesses
26:14account for nearly £9 billion gross value add. Today's figure is likely to be much higher.
26:21A recent report from Women's Enterprise Scotland articulates continued systemic barriers,
26:27citing issues such as an increase in discrimination and unequal treatment of women in business.
26:34Will the First Minister and his new Cabinet commit to a focus on the value of women-led
26:39businesses as a key part of his stated aim of driving economic growth
26:44and as a means of increasing labour market participation, innovation and productivity?
26:51I welcome the contribution to the discussion that Michelle Thomson makes,
26:55particularly in her question today and through her convenership of the cross-party group on
27:00women in enterprise. I acknowledge and recognise that our efforts to boost economic growth in
27:08Scotland would be greatly enhanced if the participation of women in enterprise
27:13was at an equal level to the participation of men in our society. Our efforts have to be focused
27:22on closing that gap to ensure that women are able to make a greater contribution to enterprise.
27:28I welcome the points that Michelle Thomson has made, and I commit the Government,
27:31in its economic strategy and the work that we are taking forward,
27:34to close that gap and to work with organisations such as Women's Enterprise Scotland,
27:41which is a fabulous organisation, to achieve those objectives.
27:49To ask the First Minister whether he will provide an update on the Scottish Government's progress
27:54towards its target to increase the number of residential rehabilitation beds in Scotland
27:59to 650 by 2026.
28:02We committed more than £38 million for the development of new and expanded facilities
28:08at eight residential rehab projects across the country. Investment in those capacity projects
28:13alone will provide an increase of at least 140 beds by 2025-26, boosting the rehab capacity
28:20in Scotland from 425 to 565—up more than 30 per cent. Three of those in Edinburgh, Dundee
28:28and Ayrshire are fully completed and operational. Alongside that direct funding, we are confident
28:33that our significant wider investment in the sector will contribute to boosted bed numbers
28:39and expect to meet our target of a 50 per cent increase to residential rehab capacity
28:44by at least 650 by 2026. We intend to commission a formal audit of residential rehab bed capacity
28:53in 2025 to provide an authoritative account of our progress towards that target.
29:02All our thoughts are with anyone who has experienced the loss of a loved one due to
29:07drugs. I hear what the First Minister is saying, but the rhetoric and the reality on the ground are
29:12two very different things. Of the £38 million that has been allocated, the last Public Health
29:17Scotland audit into rehab beds showed that that produced only an additional 32 beds of capacity.
29:24That is nowhere near the levels that it needs to be.
29:27There are many substantial barriers to accessing rehab that still remain, and the audit report
29:32shows that. Last week, I had the great privilege of visiting the Haven and Kilmacomb centre,
29:37which provides residential rehab care. It told me directly that it has the ability to increase
29:42its capacity by 18 beds in a very short space of time, but it has faced substantial
29:49problems in accessing Government money. Endless bureaucracy and red tape are holding it back.
29:54That story is repeated right across the country. The money is supposedly there,
29:59but the bed capacity simply is not, and that is the reality on the ground.
30:04Scotland's drug deaths crisis is truly our national shame. People are dying, and the strategy
30:15is not working, I am afraid. In the newfound spirit of being honest with each other as
30:20politicians, will the First Minister be honest? The strategy is not working, the drug death
30:25numbers are rising, and will he personally commit to making that his number 1 priority?
30:30First, I associate myself directly with Mr Greene's comments about the tragedy of drug
30:40deaths and the loss of families who are affected by the effect of drugs. It is a national problem
30:48that we have to address, and I give him the solemn commitment that we will do that.
30:53I have set out my response to Mr Greene's question, but I hear what he is saying about
30:59the concerns about the Haven project that he visited in Kilmacomb. I want to understand
31:05directly what those barriers are, because I have no interest in announcements being made
31:11and the practical reality not being felt in communities. If Mr Greene would be so good as
31:16to advise me of the details of that, I would appreciate it. Christina McKelvie
31:20has been reappointed last night to continue the leadership of drugs and alcohol policy
31:24within the Government. I will ask Ms McKelvie to engage with Mr Greene, but I remain open
31:31to discussions directly about how we progress on this national tragedy. I give Mr Greene
31:36the assurance of the seriousness with which I attach to the issues that he has raised with me.
31:41I welcome the First Minister to his place. The safer consumption pilot is due to launch
31:49in Glasgow by early autumn. Across the chamber, there is widespread support for those facilities
31:54as just one of many tools required to prevent drug deaths in our communities.
31:59Can the First Minister confirm that there will be clear referral pathways
32:02to residential rehab for those presenting at the overdose prevention facilities who
32:07request or need that support? It is just one of many ways in which we can prevent people
32:12falling into the trap of addiction and, of course, death. It is essential, because I have seen it
32:17happen elsewhere in the world, such as in Copenhagen, where it works very effectively.
32:20Within five minutes, a referral to residential rehab can happen
32:24from their overdose prevention facilities. Will the First Minister offer a similar guarantee?
32:29I am grateful to Mr Sweeney for his kind remarks, and I very much welcome the points that he has
32:38put to me. There should be a referral pathway in place at this moment. The scenario that Mr
32:46Sweeney puts to me is that, once the safer consumption proposition is implemented,
32:53there should be a pathway available. I take very seriously the point that he makes,
32:59because we can only help people on the road to recovery if that pathway is available
33:04as swiftly as Mr Sweeney puts it to me today. That is my expectation, but, as I become closer
33:12to many of these particular issues, I will have in mind the issue that Mr Sweeney has raised with me.
33:17To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Government's response is to reports that the
33:24Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service continued to prosecute postmasters when there
33:30was evidence that the horizon computer system used by the Post Office was flawed.
33:37As Parliament will be well aware, and as the Lord President reminded me when I took the oath of
33:44office yesterday, the Lord Advocate and the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service are rightly
33:48independent from Government in their responsibility for the prosecution of crime.
33:53I am advised that it was not until the decisions by the courts in England and Wales in 2019 and
33:582021 that the full extent of the issues with horizon emerged. Until that point,
34:04the Post Office maintained that the system was reliable. Indeed, the Post Office told
34:08Scottish prosecutors in 2013 that its external lawyers had reviewed all potentially impacted
34:15Scottish cases and found no issues. In 2015, the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service
34:22was not provided with further evidence that had been promised by the Post Office
34:26to demonstrate that horizon was as robust as it suggested. Therefore, the decision was taken to
34:32no longer rely on horizon until such time as that further evidence was provided. As we all know,
34:38the Post Office has, at best, obfuscated and, at worst, hidden the issues with horizon.
34:44It is only through the on-going public inquiry that we are learning to what extent that was
34:49undertaken. I welcome the First Minister to his post. I ask her to note carefully what I am going
34:58to say. We know that, in 2013, Post Office lawyers came to Scotland to meet senior procurator
35:05fiscals to convince them to keep prosecuting cases. However, the forensic accountant's
35:10second sight interim report was given to the Crown Office and flagged up that there were
35:15defects or bugs in the horizon software, giving rise to 76 branches being affected by incorrect
35:23balances or transactions. However, in an email to me this week, the second sight director,
35:28Ron Warmington, said that if there had been a little less naivety from the Crown Office,
35:34it would have been beneficial and that, if the Crown Office had at least taken the precaution
35:39of checking the report and calling him or the second sight officers, the outcome
35:45might well have been different. Does the First Minister agree that, notwithstanding the
35:50independence of the Crown Office, it should be fully accountable for the miscarriages of
35:55justice in Scotland because it did not provide the checks and balances that it should have?
36:01He chose to continue to prosecute cases in five years and never wrote to a single victim
36:07or attempted to overturn any of those convictions until now. Given that,
36:13should the Lord Advocate not come to this Parliament and answer further questions?
36:18First, let me welcome the remarks of Pauline McNeill and her welcome,
36:30which is appreciated. Pauline McNeill, from her long service in the justice committees
36:38of this Parliament, will understand that we are getting into territory where I will be intruding
36:45on—if I answer in great detail—the independence of the Lord Advocate. I will not do that. The Lord
36:53Advocate is an independent office holder and I want to ensure that I protect the independence
37:01of the Lord Advocate by my actions. The issues that Pauline McNeill raises are material to
37:09Crown Office decisions about the prosecutions that have been taken.
37:15I will relay to the Lord Advocate the points that have been made by Pauline McNeill today.
37:21I met the Lord Advocate last night to confirm my desire for her to continue as the Lord Advocate,
37:28but I will convey to her the points that Pauline McNeill has made. We will continue to engage with
37:34other parties in Parliament about the appropriate way in which the issue can be addressed.
37:40We know that the UK-wide use of the tainted horizon computer system evidence
37:48was a decision of the Post Office. Does the First Minister now share my concerns that it appears
37:54clear that people at the top of the Post Office have continually obfuscated and provided misleading
38:02information over the years?
38:04There is an on-going public inquiry that is looking at the issues that are material to
38:11Audrey Nicol's question. I am struck by, in observing that evidence, how overwhelming it
38:19looks that the point that Audrey Nicol makes is a fair point. We have to allow that public inquiry
38:24to take its course. However, while that is happening, there is action that we can take
38:29to remedy the issue of miscarriages of justice. That is part of the legislative programme of the
38:37Government, and the Government will bring those proposals to Parliament.
38:42The Scottish Conservatives have tried to get the Lord Advocate in here three times to answer
38:47Pauline McNeill's questions and many other questions, because Scotland's Post Office
38:51victims deserve those answers. However, the Scottish National Party and the Greens voted
38:57against that reasonable request. I ask again why John Swinney will not do the right thing
39:03and why he is adding to the distress and delays of the horizon victims.
39:13Again, Mr Findlay, as an experienced member of the Criminal Justice Committee and as somebody
39:19who knows his way around the issues in our courts and judicial system, I say that the
39:25Lord Advocate is independent in the prosecutorial decisions that are taken.
39:31I have said to Parliament that I will convey to the Lord Advocate the issues that have been raised
39:45by Pauline McNeill and Russell Findlay. As I said to Pauline McNeill, we will continue to
39:52co-operate with other political parties about the best way to address those issues.
40:00To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Government's response is to reports that
40:04Scotland has the highest suicide rate in the United Kingdom, with young men being three
40:08times more likely to die than women.
40:10Suicide prevention is a key priority for the Scottish Government and, as First Minister,
40:16it will be a priority for me. Together with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities,
40:20we published our 10-year suicide prevention strategy,
40:24Creating Hope Together, and an associated first three-year action plan in September 2022.
40:31That is backed by a commitment to double suicide prevention annual funding to £2.8 million by 2026.
40:38We are tailoring our approach to ensure that we reach people who are most at risk of suicide
40:41across Scotland. That includes a strong emphasis on men.
40:49Last week in Parliament, the suicide prevention witnesses panel included representatives from
40:54Scotland's Men's Shed Association, which is seen as possibly the most effective prevention
40:59and life-affirming movement, and is inspirational in improving men's health.
41:04The association will be expected to pursue alternative funding arrangements from outwith
41:09the Scottish Government. Therefore, why has the Scottish Government once again decided
41:15that its funding is not seen as a priority when it is saving lives?
41:23If Mr Stewart will allow me, I will look into the question that he has raised with me about
41:28funding for the men's shed movement. I have had many happy associations with the men's
41:33shed movement. Indeed, I had the great pleasure of opening the men's shed in the village of Stanley
41:39in my constituency, which emerged out of a collaboration with Historic Environment Scotland,
41:44which was an example of how Government facilities can be used to create a men's shed and support it
41:51without direct funding being made available. Obviously, as I answered Mr Ross earlier,
41:56funding is under enormous pressure, but I recognise the contribution of the men's shed
42:01movement. I also recognise that my colleague Jim Fairlie had a gathering in Parliament last week
42:07of a variety of different organisations supporting men who face difficulty. I welcome
42:13all the efforts that are going on to support that effort.
42:19When considering population size, the Highlands and Islands have consistently
42:23had a higher rate of suicide compared with other regions. Mental health provision in NHS Highland
42:29has been variable over recent years, with NHS Highland spending more than £2 million last year
42:35alone on local psychiatrists. Staff shortages are leaving charities such as No More Lost Souls,
42:42Mickey's Line and the Gen Support Group to fill the gaps. Will the First Minister consider a
42:49different approach to recruitment of health staff in rural areas, such as financial incentives for
42:56permanent staff to relocate? We simply cannot continue without the support that we need for
43:01vulnerable people. I recognise the seriousness of the issue that Rhoda Grant raises.
43:09It applies not just in this area of policy, but in a variety of areas. The
43:15education secretary will be wrestling with those problems in relation to teacher recruitment.
43:20There is a substantive issue that needs to be explored to see whether there is a way in which
43:25some of the teacher induction schemes do that already. There is a serious point to be applied.
43:33There is much good provision in the Highlands, which is provided by
43:37some of the organisations such as Shinty Clubs, for example. Very good
43:43outreach work is being done to support men who face difficulty,
43:46and I very much welcome that as part of the approach that we need to take.
43:55First Minister, given that the first few days after a person is discharged
43:59from a psychiatric ward they are at their most vulnerable to suicide,
44:03I understand that there is a requirement that they are visited within 72 hours of discharge
44:07by a mental health nurse. It is very difficult to deliver such a discharge on a Friday,
44:12with the Monday deadline, especially in rural areas such as my constituency,
44:17with long distances to be covered. Does the First Minister advise whether there is any flexibility
44:23in such circumstances to be practicable and to comply with that requirement,
44:28such as an online contact initially?
44:33The way in which I would like to answer Christine Grahame's question is to say that, although
44:38the 72-hour commitment is what we are working to achieve within,
44:45we should get that contact as quickly as possible. We should not view the 72-hour
44:50commitment as simply the measure of what we are trying to do—we should be trying to work to get
44:55that commitment there swiftly. There are opportunities for a telephone call or a video
45:02call to individuals as a flexible alternative, but I stress the importance of ensuring that
45:10support is in place at the earliest possible opportunity.