#AiterazHai #AtherKazmi #AmirIlyasRana #PTI #ImranKhan #FazalurRehman #IMFPakistan #IMFDeal #PakistanEconomyCrisis
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Aniqa Nisar
Guests:
- Aamir Ilyas Rana (Analyst)
- Ather Kazmi (Analyst)
- Syed Shabbar Zaidi (Former Chairman of FBR)
Ather Kazmi and Amir Ilyas Rana's analysis on apologize to establishment
Can PTI get relief? Ather Kazmi and Amir Ilyas Rana's Reaction
How beneficial will IMF agreement be for Pakistan? - Shabbar Zaidi's Reaction
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Aniqa Nisar
Guests:
- Aamir Ilyas Rana (Analyst)
- Ather Kazmi (Analyst)
- Syed Shabbar Zaidi (Former Chairman of FBR)
Ather Kazmi and Amir Ilyas Rana's analysis on apologize to establishment
Can PTI get relief? Ather Kazmi and Amir Ilyas Rana's Reaction
How beneficial will IMF agreement be for Pakistan? - Shabbar Zaidi's Reaction
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
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NewsTranscript
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12:00 The vote can be elected for Nawaz Sharif, but why can't the Senate vote for Khyber Pakhtunkhwa?
12:08 So I think there are many issues related to this.
12:10 It's not just a matter of reserved seats.
12:12 The government is also involved in this.
12:15 They have made a lot of arrangements that are also related to this issue.
12:18 The Senate has to bring its excellence, and that is also related to this.
12:23 But at the end of the day, if the vote is for Nawaz Sharif,
12:26 how does democracy and logic accept that the seats should be given to Imran Khan,
12:32 or that Imran Khan should be elected and the seats should be distributed between the People's Party and the Noon League?
12:37 So, logic, consciousness and democratic principles do not accept this.
12:40 Now, only when the Moses court decides on this will things become clear.
12:44 Right.
12:45 Mr. Rahman, in your view, the political uncertainty and investment in Pakistan,
12:52 Mohammad bin Salman is coming to Pakistan, and before that, Iran's president has been elected,
12:59 investment is coming, the SIFC is in place,
13:03 do you think that there will be an intermediary?
13:06 Because at some point in time, when political turmoil would come,
13:09 when political people would be in a state of turmoil,
13:13 at that time, either there would be a personality,
13:17 who would be considered a representative, and they would have a conversation with each other,
13:21 or there would be institutions.
13:22 The institutions would have to stand up and say, "We don't want to talk, we don't want to talk to anyone."
13:27 Especially until the 9th of May, when there is no pardon,
13:29 and the matters are not forgiven, until then, there will be no discussion.
13:34 So, in this situation, it will be a matter of personality.
13:37 What kind of personality can talk about these two parties,
13:40 the government and the opposition?
13:44 Does Maulana Fazlur Rehman Sahib look like a person who plays such a role?
13:51 Before that, what Qazimi sahib said, that democracy and logic do not agree,
13:55 whether they agree or not, the law and the constitution have to decide.
13:58 Democracy does not make all the decisions.
14:00 The constitution is made through democracy, the law is made.
14:03 The Supreme Court which gave a stay, that these people will be obedient until our final decision,
14:09 they would have said it along with it.
14:10 Without a request, they would have said, "You can do this in the election committee of the Senate."
14:14 The election commission did not want to do it.
14:15 The election commission made a decision, stopped it,
14:17 and the Peshawar High Court did not say anything about that decision,
14:21 that the sessions were given in the right way.
14:23 So, when the sessions were given in the right way,
14:25 and you were not taking their votes by calling for the assembly of the KP,
14:28 so the election of the Senate was stopped.
14:30 Now, there is stubbornness and stubbornness from both sides,
14:33 and there is a stay of the Supreme Court.
14:35 So, we will have to wait for that.
14:37 And the personality that you talked about, Maulana Fazlur Rehman,
14:40 he is going to the PM, and Imran Khan's resignation is also included.
14:44 Maulana Fazlur Rehman spoke about democracy and rational personality,
14:48 he spoke logically, that he will come back from the talks,
14:51 see Maulana, how long and how long the diesel takes.
14:54 Those accounts which have been seized and stopped,
14:57 what all the mongrels will not start about Maulana.
15:00 Because here it is that if you are with me, then it is fine,
15:03 otherwise you are my enemy.
15:04 Then you are sold, you are a cover, you are accused,
15:08 and you are with me, then everything is fine.
15:11 When a DGSI comes and tells you that there are problems in your house,
15:15 money is coming from Punjab, then you blow that DGSI,
15:19 who later becomes the Army Chief, who understands the matters,
15:22 who has seen the reports, has heard.
15:25 And Imran Khan was the advocate of this at that time,
15:28 that our agencies are our own and they have the right to listen and check.
15:33 So, in that listening and checking, many things were told to Khan Sahib,
15:36 which he did not like for himself,
15:38 he did not see the corruption of his own people.
15:42 Yes, if someone is against him, if he is Alim Khan,
15:45 then he is caught again in the NAB,
15:47 who becomes the candidate of the Chief Minister,
15:48 if Sabtein Khan becomes the candidate of the Chief Minister,
15:51 then he is suppressed, he is put in a old scandal,
15:54 that whoever speaks, he used to do the same with Pervez Khattak,
15:58 when there was an MPA against him, he said,
16:00 whoever wants to sit, sit, whoever is against him, get out of here,
16:03 and then he called them to Bannigala,
16:04 and then later in the Senate election,
16:07 what happened with them in Bannigala,
16:10 he took revenge that he did not vote for the party.
16:12 So, the issue is not that when a person does not listen to logic,
16:16 he says, give me the first one,
16:19 access me on gate number 4,
16:21 make a one page with me, then I will do everything.
16:24 So, I think, as he was saying,
16:27 that he does not see that Imran Khan Sahib will go towards forgiveness,
16:31 so I don't think that there will be any discussion with him either.
16:35 Right. Atar Kazmi Sahib, then ultimately,
16:38 the thing is that you have become a do or die situation.
16:43 If there is no flexibility,
16:45 or as you were saying,
16:46 that it is possible that later,
16:48 you turned and agreed with Mr. Narayana,
16:51 but in the near future, it does not seem like that.
16:53 If this does not happen in the near future,
16:55 then the PTI has been hit so hard,
16:58 the difference of opinion,
16:59 the leverage that is there,
17:01 will it not get lost in the future?
17:04 [Anwar Khan] I had agreed that,
17:06 just like Nawaz Sharif Sahib and Mariam Nawaz,
17:09 and the Noon League took a U-turn on their statement,
17:11 and later they benefited from it,
17:14 so it is possible that they look at the other side,
17:16 and understand that maybe there can be some benefit in this,
17:18 but I don't see this happening.
17:20 The second thing is that,
17:21 how will these things be resolved at the moment?
17:23 I don't think that any person can play an important role in this.
17:27 There is a Pakistan Act,
17:28 everything is written in that Act.
17:30 The mandate for the 8th February elections,
17:33 if there was no theft,
17:35 many problems would have been solved.
17:37 Similarly, the issues in 2018,
17:39 if they were in accordance with the Act,
17:41 many problems would not have been solved.
17:43 We have made it an algebra,
17:45 that this is the will of this person,
17:47 and that is his will.
17:49 Pakistan is not a state without a mandate.
17:51 We are living under the Act in this country.
17:53 So, we should act on the Act.
17:55 The role of the person in the Act,
17:57 should play its own role,
17:59 whether it is the opposition or the government.
18:01 If this is the case, many problems will be solved.
18:03 The issue here is that,
18:05 along with the time,
18:07 the corruption stories change,
18:09 the favors change.
18:11 Today, we received news from Mr. Zardari,
18:13 that the cars he had bought in Tosha Khana,
18:15 and the case that was going on,
18:17 he got a judicial exemption.
18:19 If he had not committed any corruption,
18:21 then why did he need a judicial exemption?
18:25 These cases were also made by our institutions.
18:27 The Omni Group report,
18:29 the money laundering report,
18:31 all those reports,
18:33 all those JITs,
18:35 all the institutions were included in it,
18:37 what was said about which leaders.
18:39 But, you are the same Mr. Zardari,
18:41 the same Shakshiyat Akumtum,
18:43 so there is no problem here.
18:45 Why is there no problem?
18:47 Because here, more than the law and the law,
18:49 there is personal preference and dislike.
18:51 This is an important point.
18:53 Mr. Akadmi, I want to take the answer to this from Mr. Rana.
18:57 Mr. Rana, this is an important point,
18:59 that cases are being filed on everyone.
19:01 And, no one leader,
19:03 in the political arena,
19:05 is not the one who has not been filed a case.
19:07 And, ultimately, the cases,
19:09 if somehow the other role is not taken back,
19:11 be it due to weak prosecution,
19:13 lack of evidence,
19:15 or the absence of evidence,
19:17 or whatever,
19:19 or the case of Atar Kazmi,
19:21 which Mr. Zardari is talking about,
19:23 should be taken back.
19:25 And, this is the case of PTI.
19:27 Look,
19:29 the one page went to PTI
19:31 when they
19:33 tore up the DGSI's
19:35 posting.
19:37 And, General Bajwa,
19:39 who was under a lot of pressure earlier,
19:41 that Imran Khan was not
19:43 dealing with his own party and
19:45 the opposition,
19:47 but he was using the stick and the stick
19:49 that the Colonel used to use to run the Parliament,
19:51 to run the work through him.
19:53 He used to say, "I am in my enjoyment,
19:55 I have to get up at 11, come to the helicopter,
19:57 go back to the helicopter,
19:59 spend two hours in the Prime Minister's office,
20:01 four hours here and there, just two speeches,
20:03 then I have to go out for a walk."
20:05 So, he did not want to waste his time,
20:07 because he was very busy.
20:09 So, then it happened that a fight broke out.
20:11 Now, there was no such fight.
20:13 Now, he himself is directly in conflict with the army.
20:15 His people say, "We are retaliating."
20:17 That is, retaliatory actions are being carried out,
20:19 fights are being fought.
20:21 So, till then, wait for Khan Sahib.
20:23 The rest have done it.
20:25 Then, according to the situation,
20:27 this is on the basis of daily,
20:29 now, as much as he has put pressure on 9th May,
20:31 we did not see any such fight anywhere.
20:33 A few people came, the police came,
20:35 they left, the chairman also left in the car.
20:37 Then you have to put political pressure
20:39 and the whole process should come to an end.
20:41 At least people should come, why did they not come?
20:43 Right, but before going,
20:45 before going, Mr. Prerana and Mr. Atar,
20:47 I want one comment
20:49 regarding the Karanj situation,
20:51 which is made of wheat.
20:53 I want to take a very quick comment from both of them
20:55 because this situation, we see it as a national issue.
20:59 In fact, it has become a national issue.
21:01 Mr. Atar Ghazni, you start,
21:03 comment on this.
21:05 Look, this is, I don't know
21:07 whether there has been corruption or not,
21:09 but it is a matter of incompetence.
21:11 The Nigrahan government was also sitting here.
21:13 Didn't he know
21:15 that such a big bumper crop is coming here
21:17 and such a big bumper crop
21:19 is being forecasted?
21:21 So, there was the government of Mohsin Naqvi,
21:23 there was the government of Kakar,
21:25 now there is the current government.
21:27 But in all these issues,
21:29 the way we are doing it with the farmers,
21:31 we are doing injustice to our country.
21:33 If we do this with the farmers,
21:35 yesterday also, something went viral on social media
21:37 that you buy a pizza for Rs. 3000,
21:39 but you are giving 2800 rupees,
21:41 wheat to the farmer,
21:43 isn't this injustice and injustice?
21:45 But did we reduce the cost of the crop for the farmer?
21:47 Did we reduce the cost of water, electricity,
21:49 whatever bills he gets,
21:51 did we reduce it?
21:53 So, the problem is that we should not do such injustice.
21:55 If we are cutting the farmer today,
21:57 we are cutting our own throat.
21:59 If there is no doubt that the farmer
22:01 will go to the gutter,
22:03 then Pakistan will benefit.
22:05 The loss of the farmer is the loss of Pakistan.
22:07 Absolutely. Mr. Rana, quick comment.
22:09 Look, it is a simple thing that
22:13 we do not give money to our farmers,
22:15 we spend a little bit of money
22:17 and import wheat from outside
22:19 when it is needed.
22:21 Now, this time, the miracle has happened
22:23 that in the supervision period,
22:25 3.5 million tonnes of wheat were ordered,
22:27 the loss of which is that
22:29 when our crop was ready,
22:31 the chief secretary of the Punjab
22:33 which is accused of supervision,
22:35 Akhtar Jyot,
22:37 he wrote to the federal government
22:39 that do not import wheat.
22:41 He cancelled the tender of the FEC
22:43 and said that we have the
22:45 Wafir wheat. Now, the investigation
22:47 is not that way, on the other hand,
22:49 the conspiracy is that in the supervision period,
22:51 he himself had finished the purchase of
22:53 the circular debt of Punjab
22:55 of more than 400 billion rupees,
22:57 the food department of the Punjab.
22:59 He did not want us to go in that circle.
23:01 Next time it is decided that this support
23:03 will not go to the Punjab government at the price.
23:05 Look, the price was not given by the People's Party
23:07 and everything is a problem.
23:09 Thank you very much.
23:11 We are talking about wheat.
23:13 For the economy,
23:15 the IMF team has come to Pakistan.
23:17 We will discuss that in the second segment.
23:19 Welcome back after the break.
23:21 Before going on the break,
23:23 we were talking about some history.
23:25 Let's move towards the economy.
23:27 The IMF team has come to Pakistan.
23:29 There are many demands in front of them.
23:31 In the IMF budget,
23:33 the demand to end the electricity and gas
23:35 subsidies has been made.
23:37 There are many questions arising
23:39 because the budget is also coming.
23:41 The preparation of the budget has also started.
23:43 The economic challenges in itself
23:45 have increased.
23:47 The wheat problems are also increasing.
23:49 Yesterday we talked about the farmers.
23:51 The situation is still not clear.
23:53 The IMF team will go in this program.
23:55 How much will it be beneficial
23:57 or harmful for us?
23:59 We will talk about this in the long run.
24:01 We will talk about this in the long run.
24:03 We will talk about this in the long run.
24:05 We will talk about this in the long run.
24:07 Mr. Shabbarz Ahle is with us.
24:09 He is a well-known economist.
24:11 Thank you very much for joining us.
24:13 It is a pleasure having you in the program.
24:15 Mr. Shabbarz, going to the IMF team
24:17 is obviously not good news.
24:19 is obviously not good news.
24:21 Your economy has gone down so much
24:23 that you have to go to the IMF team.
24:25 The demands of the IMF team
24:27 are very difficult to implement.
24:29 Most of the time,
24:31 Pakistan has gone to the IMF team
24:33 to implement many programs.
24:35 But in most of the programs,
24:37 the conditions were not met
24:39 which is why we have a problem
24:41 in negotiating.
24:43 Do you think that the conditions
24:45 that are being met,
24:47 especially to end the subsidy
24:49 in the electricity and gas industry,
24:51 which directly impacts the common man,
24:53 are the conditions
24:55 that can be met?
24:57 In the name of God,
24:59 you gave me a chance.
25:01 Your question is absolutely correct.
25:03 But my answer is
25:05 absolutely straight and clear
25:07 that we have always
25:09 done the IMF program
25:11 to get money in history,
25:13 not to correct ourselves.
25:15 not to correct ourselves.
25:17 not to correct ourselves.
25:19 That is, when our current account
25:21 is not working,
25:23 we take money from the IMF,
25:25 we listen to their talks,
25:27 but we never listen to their talks.
25:29 But we follow their talks
25:31 only to the extent
25:33 where they talk about
25:35 stopping their share.
25:37 Otherwise, we have not
25:39 done any such action in 24 programs
25:41 that correct us.
25:43 And you tell this
25:45 to the Pakistani people
25:47 very clearly
25:49 that the IMF program
25:51 never comes for any country
25:53 for economic prosperity,
25:55 but it is always
25:57 anti-growth
25:59 and it brings such conditions
26:01 that its growth
26:03 stops because
26:05 they have to
26:07 take their money back.
26:09 At the moment, the IMF program
26:11 has to give us
26:13 about 7 billion rupees.
26:15 And you remember
26:17 that we already have
26:19 7 billion rupees
26:21 old dues.
26:23 So if God forbid
26:25 Pakistan was in default,
26:27 then 7 billion would have
26:29 been wasted with them.
26:31 So they are giving us
26:33 money because they want
26:35 to run this shop
26:37 so that they can
26:39 take back their
26:41 previous loan.
26:43 You should keep this
26:45 truth in front of you
26:47 and this is what
26:49 I am seeing
26:51 of the Pakistani
26:53 government,
26:55 what I am seeing,
26:57 what I am seeing,
26:59 what kind of statements I am
27:01 seeing, what kind of body language
27:03 I am seeing, what kind of
27:05 attire I am seeing,
27:07 what kind of budget
27:09 you said is being prepared,
27:11 what kind of things I am
27:13 seeing, I am almost
27:15 100% sure that we will
27:17 end there where we
27:19 have been ending in the
27:21 past.
27:23 I understand
27:25 that you are pre-empting
27:27 that what happened before will happen
27:29 because this happened before
27:31 too. If we did this in the
27:33 20th program, then what difference
27:35 will we make in the 24th, but
27:37 on the flip side,
27:39 what we did in the
27:41 25th, how can we ensure
27:43 that they do not do it in the
27:45 24th?
27:47 We will not believe
27:49 in ourselves that
27:51 the state
27:53 is based on
27:55 economy and
27:57 the biggest priority
27:59 is its economic
28:01 problems and
28:03 to understand
28:05 economic problems,
28:07 you should keep your feet on the ground.
28:09 You can't solve
28:11 the economic problems
28:13 of Pakistan and any country
28:15 . Now it is
28:17 necessary that today
28:19 the difference is that
28:21 the media is free,
28:23 social media is running and
28:25 people have also realized
28:27 that Pakistan
28:29 will not be
28:31 bailed out
28:33 as it has been done in the past,
28:35 but the basic
28:37 financial
28:39 problems or
28:41 the basic
28:43 way out
28:45 or mindset
28:47 is not changing
28:49 and until it changes
28:51 or there is no pressure on it,
28:53 you will think of
28:55 a basic
28:57 that either I will increase the electricity bill
28:59 or reduce it or it will happen
29:01 or there will be such a storm in the budget
29:03 or there will be a change,
29:05 so this is wrong
29:07 according to me and it
29:09 will continue to run as it is
29:11 running today and
29:13 it should not run like this
29:15 now this shop is
29:17 not going to run
29:19 because we
29:21 are talking about habits that
29:23 until those actions that happen
29:25 will not change, the result
29:27 will be the same as it has been
29:29 until now,
29:31 one is our expenditure
29:33 and there is a big difference in our earning
29:35 , there is a basic
29:37 rule of a house
29:39 that you are earning as much as you
29:41 have to spend as much as we
29:43 are earning, we are spending
29:45 double and we cannot
29:47 complete this expense,
29:49 so we take loans with interest
29:51 and then we have to give interest
29:53 , we have to return the loan and
29:55 we are not finishing the expense
29:57 at this time, what are
29:59 our expenses that
30:01 we can cut
30:03 no
30:05 , see here I can give you
30:07 a clarification
30:09 , a big misconception
30:11 has come in Pakistan
30:13 that people of Pakistan
30:15 do not get basic facilities
30:17 due to which
30:19 taxes should be imposed,
30:21 this is wrong because
30:23 after the NFC award
30:25 all the money goes to the
30:27 province at the gross level
30:29 and health, education,
30:31 transport, security
30:33 all these provincial
30:35 issues
30:37 and that
30:39 people tolerate that
30:41 they have no shortage of money
30:43 so these are two
30:45 different traps
30:47 Pakistan has now
30:49 gone into a bankruptcy trap
30:51 , it will be difficult for the
30:53 common man, so I can't
30:55 explain it much that
30:57 our expenses are of two types
30:59 , one is foreign
31:01 and one is local
31:03 foreign expenses are
31:05 about 140 billion dollars of
31:07 Pakistan, it is not
31:09 a very big expense for a country
31:11 like Pakistan and our
31:13 interest cost is not very high
31:15 , our basic problem is
31:17 local expenses, which
31:19 eats up almost all our budget
31:21 but the shape of local
31:23 expenses is that we are
31:25 printing notes and paying
31:27 expenses, it is our own,
31:29 the cost is increasing
31:31 , it is a problem for the common man
31:33 , it is a difficult subject,
31:35 a common man will not understand
31:37 but I want to say this
31:39 for the common man that
31:41 Pakistan's budget or
31:43 the economic condition of Pakistan
31:45 is not like that
31:47 in which a man
31:49 stands up and says that
31:51 I will correct this country
31:53 in the next two years, three years, four years,
31:55 five years, for this
31:57 we need a very detailed
31:59 long-term plan,
32:01 see and remember one thing
32:03 when I say that we need a
32:05 ten-year long-term plan,
32:07 people object to me that I am
32:09 talking about a military government
32:11 or I am talking about an
32:13 administration, I am saying whether it is a military
32:15 or a civilian government, we need
32:17 a ten-year long-term economic
32:19 plan that the IMF will not give,
32:21 we do not have to take it from the IMF,
32:23 we have to make it ourselves, we do not make it,
32:25 we tell the IMF that
32:27 tell us what will happen in the next 15 years,
32:29 this is the same game that
32:31 you do not have money in your house
32:33 and you are telling your neighbor
32:35 to increase your budget, this is our
32:37 fundamental problem, but you
32:39 have to accept this.
32:41 You are talking about planning,
32:43 here we do not know
32:45 that we should import
32:47 import
32:49 wheat
32:51 and how much should we import?
32:53 See, you are
32:55 losing,
32:57 I am saying that you do not
32:59 know how much wheat crop is coming
33:01 after the next six months, you do not
33:03 know how the country will run,
33:05 when you do not know
33:07 how much wheat crop is coming
33:09 and how the country will run, so you tell
33:11 that the next ten years, the American
33:13 budget is made for the next 50 years,
33:15 for the next 50 years,
33:17 you do not know
33:19 about the
33:21 crop,
33:23 so it does not run like this,
33:25 see,
33:27 these are not the nations that run like this,
33:29 who do not know,
33:31 now tell me what do you know?
33:33 Tell me one thing about the economy
33:35 or tell me one thing about Pakistan
33:37 about which I can predict
33:39 that in 2024
33:41 or 2025 or 2026 or 2027
33:43 it will be like this,
33:45 tell me one thing about which we can say
33:47 that this change will not happen
33:49 and remember one thing that
33:51 business is always done
33:53 on the basis that I know
33:55 what is going to happen next.
33:57 Right, Shabbaab,
33:59 the wheat crisis that is going on
34:01 there are some
34:03 orders from KPK government
34:05 and others, but
34:07 still the farmers are protesting,
34:09 we have
34:11 a very big issue of food security
34:13 already,
34:15 we are importing oil, oil,
34:17 we are importing a lot of lentils
34:19 and we are importing a lot of spices,
34:21 unfortunately, it is a
34:23 agricultural country
34:25 and still these things are being imported,
34:27 now wheat and sugar should also be imported,
34:29 export and then import,
34:31 then where is our food security,
34:33 Shabbar sahib?
34:35 See, the thing is
34:37 that I said again
34:39 that when the basic economy
34:41 is running on ad-hocism,
34:43 your whole system is running on ad-hoc,
34:45 you do not have to worry
34:47 about where you have to
34:49 put wheat,
34:51 where you have to put sugar,
34:53 where you have to put lentils,
34:55 where you have to put edible oil,
34:57 so this is what happens,
34:59 the basic thing is
35:01 that at this time
35:03 you have basically
35:05 a clash
35:07 in two groups,
35:09 one group is of traders
35:11 and one group is of farmers,
35:13 traders are the ones
35:15 who relate
35:17 wrong figures for their own
35:19 benefit,
35:21 make wrong figures
35:23 and make wrong figures
35:25 and import
35:27 or do their own things
35:29 and the interests of the farmers
35:31 are not being taken into account,
35:33 I think that
35:35 the economy in Pakistan
35:37 which has been destroyed
35:39 is the agriculture
35:41 economy because
35:43 the farmers have no heir,
35:45 they have no voice,
35:47 the feudal who are sitting in the assembly,
35:49 you should not think that
35:51 they are the representatives of agriculture,
35:53 the poor farmer
35:55 who is a small farmer,
35:57 he does not get the price of his wheat,
35:59 so I am trying to say
36:01 that Pakistan's
36:03 poor man,
36:05 whether he is living in the city
36:07 or he is living in the village,
36:09 he is actually
36:11 a victim of the corruption
36:13 of the Pakistani system
36:15 and that is why we are seeing
36:17 these problems today
36:19 and I want to tell you
36:21 one more thing that there is a crisis
36:23 of wheat, my view about this is that
36:25 the story of corruption,
36:27 this story of corruption is being presented
36:29 because you want to hide
36:31 the incompetence of the farmers,
36:33 I put corruption aside,
36:35 corruption is in the ground,
36:37 you first ask
36:39 that did the Punjab government
36:41 and Sindh government
36:43 give any projection to the government
36:45 and the federal government,
36:47 to the food security,
36:49 if they had given,
36:51 then where did it come from,
36:53 what came, hang that person,
36:55 now by doing corruption,
36:57 you will sack a secretary,
36:59 this is corruption,
37:01 in your view,
37:03 in all this famine,
37:05 who is responsible in all this?
37:07 In this,
37:09 Secretary of Agriculture Punjab
37:11 and Secretary of Agriculture Sindh
37:13 and Secretary of Agriculture
37:15 Frontier, call all three
37:17 and make them stand in Islamabad
37:19 for three days, ask them
37:21 where did your figure of wheat come from,
37:23 they will decide later,
37:25 did they give any figure
37:27 to the national security people
37:29 that how much wheat is going to come?
37:31 This is the question,
37:33 they are responsible.
37:35 Political,
37:37 the caretaker government,
37:39 you are switching a lot,
37:41 political will come later,
37:43 first tell me what figure came,
37:45 they knew
37:47 what crop was going to come,
37:49 the question is
37:51 when I am taking decision on ECC,
37:53 what figure did I have,
37:55 this corruption will come later,
37:57 when I decided on ECC
37:59 that wheat will be imported,
38:01 at that time did I have any figure
38:03 or not,
38:05 and if ECC did not have any figure,
38:07 then all the people of ECC
38:09 should be disqualified
38:11 in 1962-63.
38:13 Fair enough,
38:15 but from Kakar's words,
38:17 it seems that he had a figure,
38:19 because he said that
38:21 we have demanded as much as we could.
38:23 I am telling you,
38:25 why are you talking about corruption,
38:27 when a cabinet decided
38:29 that we have to import this,
38:31 and if they did not have a figure,
38:33 then disqualify them in 1962-63,
38:35 and if they had a figure,
38:37 then call the person who was giving
38:39 the figure from behind,
38:41 from where did you get the figure.
38:43 Ok, you are saying that
38:45 caretaker should keep you aside,
38:47 and do this work, thank you very much.
38:49 No, I am not talking about caretaker
38:51 and non-caretaker,
38:53 you are going to caretaker and non-caretaker,
38:55 I am talking about a system,
38:57 any ECC,
38:59 it decides the import of wheat,
39:01 when it knows that there is a shortage,
39:03 so it will have a paper,
39:05 it should have a paper.
39:07 I understand what you are saying,
39:09 that makes sense,
39:11 that makes sense, thank you very much,
39:13 Mr. Shabbar, it was a pleasure to have you here.
39:15 One thing we have to see very clearly,
39:17 that do we have to go on like this,
39:19 we are going to the 24th IMF program,
39:21 the budget is going to come,
39:23 the provinces are complaining a lot,
39:25 WIFAG has no money to run it,
39:27 the salaries are reduced,
39:29 and in such a situation,
39:31 we are not getting rid of our expenses,
39:33 whether it is the government,
39:35 or a certain group of people,
39:37 and the brand that is being faced,
39:39 is being faced by the poor,
39:41 who have to feed themselves,
39:43 who have to sell their wheat.
39:45 So, it is necessary and obligatory
39:47 to fix the policies,
39:49 we will come back to this,
39:51 and then we will talk about food.
39:53 Welcome back after the break.
39:55 I have been in Egypt for the past five days,
39:57 I am trying to understand
39:59 how the Palestinians are suffering,
40:01 and how they are suffering.
40:03 A journalist from Pakistan
40:05 is here in Egypt,
40:07 and we have had various meetings,
40:09 at official places,
40:11 and also with fellow journalists,
40:13 we have had meetings with journalists,
40:15 we have tried a lot,
40:17 our foreign office has tried a lot,
40:19 our press has tried a lot,
40:21 our foreign office has tried a lot,
40:23 our Pakistan embassy in Egypt,
40:25 has tried a lot to get access
40:27 to the Rafah border.
40:29 But as soon as we came here,
40:31 the next day, the bombing started on Rafah.
40:33 And till now, many Palestinians
40:35 have lost their lives.
40:37 In an Arab League meeting,
40:39 we came across something,
40:41 and it was that many people,
40:43 and the woman from the Arab League,
40:45 was also telling us that
40:47 she was two years old,
40:49 since she left her home,
40:51 Palestine.
40:53 But she has kept her house's keys,
40:55 safe and secure.
40:57 After many decades,
40:59 she could not forget her home,
41:01 and could not forget her land.
41:03 Even today, Palestinians,
41:05 for the defense of their land,
41:07 are trying,
41:09 without any weapon,
41:11 to keep their land,
41:13 safe and secure.
41:15 But Israel is trying hard,
41:17 to push them,
41:19 and throw them into the deserts of Sinai.
41:21 Even today,
41:23 where I am sitting,
41:25 even in Egypt,
41:27 the same sentiments,
41:29 the same feelings,
41:31 about Palestine,
41:33 are present in Pakistan.
41:35 The same heartache,
41:37 the same sorrow,
41:39 and the same regret,
41:41 that the world is not able to do for Palestine.
41:43 But there is a hope,
41:45 that because of the light of the Prophet,
41:47 at this time,
41:49 in different universities,
41:51 young people are protesting.
41:53 And that protest is being felt
41:55 in Gaza,
41:57 and the people of Gaza are thankful for it.
41:59 In the United Nations General Assembly,
42:01 at this time,
42:03 the Palestinians,
42:05 have been supported,
42:07 and accepted,
42:09 by the United Nations,
42:11 and we pray,
42:13 that the United Nations,
42:15 International Courts, Vienna Convention,
42:17 Geneva Convention on International
42:19 Humanitarian Rights,
42:21 can stop Israel,
42:23 and Israel can stop
42:25 this barbarism and tyranny.
42:27 From Egypt,
42:29 Anika Nassar, asks for your permission,
42:31 with this prayer,
42:33 that the Palestinians and Kashmiris,
42:35 be free from fruit, flowers, and barbarism.