Scotsman Deputy Editor Alan Young talks about early prisoner release due to jail overcrowding with Political Correspondent Rachel Amery.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00 [Music]
00:06 Hello and welcome to the Scotsman's Daily
00:10 Built. And for Friday we've made it, it's almost the end of the week. I'm Alan Young,
00:14 Deputy Editor of the Scotsman, joined today by our political correspondent Rachel Emery to take
00:18 a look at the main headlines. Hi Rachel. Good morning. Let's have a look at the front page.
00:25 And in common with many papers in Scotland, today we splash on the statement in Parliament
00:31 yesterday around the early release of prisoners to ease overcrowding, critical overcrowding in
00:39 Scotland's jails. Rachel has the story there and we'll speak to her about it in just one minute.
00:46 But I want to highlight up the top of the page the new rebus which is out now. It's on iPlayer.
00:53 We have the first verdict today from our TV critic Aidan Smith, as well as an interview
01:01 with some of the stars. So Rachel, this is causing a lot of noise, the statement from
01:08 Angela Constance yesterday. Take us through firstly what was said. Yes, basically there's
01:16 a big problem with overcrowding in Scotland's prisons. This has been an issue for a very,
01:20 very long time. But as the statement yesterday showed, we're almost at capacity when it comes
01:26 to prison space. His Majesty's Inspector of Prisons, Wendy Sinclair-Gieben, she actually
01:33 thinks it's above capacity because she believes some of the cells are too small to be housing
01:38 two prisoners at once. So there is even debate as to whether we are at capacity or just under it.
01:43 But obviously the government needs to do something quite drastic at this point to try and tackle
01:47 this number. And the plan is to release some prisoners who are serving sentences of under
01:52 four years from prison to free up some more space. The idea being that it would create more space in
01:59 the prison system and it would be those who are committing crimes that are not sexual offenses
02:04 and not domestic violence. Those are the two crimes that wouldn't be counted in this instance
02:08 here. It has already sparked quite a backlash. The Conservatives are saying that they're very
02:12 worried that perhaps violent criminals who don't meet those two criteria could be released and
02:17 therefore back into the community without being rehabilitated. But the rehabilitation thing is
02:22 quite an important thing here because the prison service, the prison inspectors and
02:27 Justice Secretary herself have all kind of admitted that having so many people in prison at once
02:32 is kind of hampering the ability to rehabilitate prisoners. So while part of the idea is to keep
02:38 prisoners separated as punishment, it's also about rehabilitating them so they can go back into the
02:42 community once their sentence is finished. And that's the problem that right now there's not
02:47 enough staff to get around everybody to make sure they are properly rehabilitated. And that's one of
02:52 the reasons they're wanting to take this drastic measure. There's been quite a dramatic spike even
02:57 in the last couple of months in the prison population. Is there any theory around what's
03:03 behind it? This is a very difficult one. So as you were saying, it's gone from just under 8,000
03:08 to about 8,350 very, very quickly. And no one can quite understand why we've been asking that
03:15 question. The Justice Secretary tried to address that as well in her statement yesterday, but it
03:20 doesn't seem to be a particular thing that's causing it. One thing they did say is that
03:26 prisoners do tend to have more complex needs now and there also seems to be an ageing prison
03:30 population as well. So that's two things that are occurring, but as to why numbers are going up,
03:36 that's one thing that we're not quite sure of at the moment. And like you say, there is concern
03:42 over potentially violent prisoners being released early and there's concern from victims groups
03:51 as well as opposition politicians. When do you think we might see this starting to happen?
03:58 I think the 26th of May was sort of mooted yesterday as a sort of date to sort of aim for,
04:04 but Parliament has to agree to these plans first. They have to vote on the plans and say yes to them
04:08 before they actually go ahead. Now, obviously, the 26th of May is not far off, so I imagine
04:13 things will move pretty quickly now at this point. The Justice Secretary was quite keen to stress
04:18 that even if Parliament gives consent to this, it's the governors of the prisons who would have
04:23 the ultimate say. So if they think this prisoner on paper meets the criteria, but in reality is too
04:29 violent to go back out into the community, the governors at that point can step in and say no,
04:34 that person's not eligible for early release. So she was very keen to stress that this will all be
04:39 done safely and that the governors who are the ones sort of interacting with prisoners day to day
04:45 are the ones with the final say. But of course, there is obviously concern, as you were saying,
04:49 with victims groups who say that they want to see, you know, if they want to see the people
04:53 who have perpetrated the crime serving the full sentence, they've been handed down. Of course,
04:58 the opposition politicians say that they're worried that there are going to be violent criminals who
05:01 do slip through the net here. An important point, I guess, is to remember that the SNP is now a
05:09 minority government. So whereas in the past, the idea of Parliament giving its approval for
05:15 anything was about giving, the government have to work a lot harder and bring the opposition parties
05:23 on board. Absolutely. So when the Boothouse Agreement, which was the power sharing deal
05:27 with the Greens, when that broke down a couple of weeks ago, the SNP became a minority government.
05:32 Not unheard of, Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon both ran minority governments in
05:37 Hollywood quite successfully. So it can be done. But of course, it doesn't mean that
05:42 everything gets passed through automatically, as we did before under Humza Yousaf. So the
05:47 Conservatives, I'm pretty sure they will vote against these proposals. They're already sort
05:51 of raising a lot of concern. So I would imagine they might vote against it. So you're then looking
05:56 to Labour, Lib Dem, the Greens, and of course, Alaba as well in the chamber. Where will they go?
06:01 Where will their votes land? So that's the thing with the question now is who's going to go where?
06:05 And what can the SNP government, the Justice Secretary and the First Minister, John Swinney,
06:09 what can they all do to try and convince others in the chamber that this is a necessary step?
06:14 Because that was the word that Angela Constance, the Justice Secretary, used. She did say it was
06:19 necessary and this emergency move was something that she never wanted to actually have to bring
06:23 into force. Indeed. Thanks very much for that, Rachel. It's a story we'll keep a very close
06:28 eye on, I'm sure. Please do keep your eye on scotsman.com throughout the day for all the very
06:35 latest news and analysis. And if you can do subscribe, then you'll be able to read and watch
06:40 absolutely everything. If you're out and about today, do pick up a copy of the paper from me
06:45 and from Rachel. Goodbye for now. Goodbye.
06:48 [Music]