Tom McClintock Asks ATF Head Point Blank: 'What Do You Think Is The Purpose of The 2nd Amendment?'

7 months ago

During a House Judiciary Committee hearing Thursday, Rep. Tom McClintock (R-CA) spoke about the ATF and its relationship with the Second Amendment.

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Transcript

00:00 The gentleman from California is recognized for five minutes.

00:02 Mr. Dettelbeck, I'm just curious, have you expressed remorse to Mr. Malinowski's widow and family?

00:08 I'm sorry?

00:10 Have you expressed remorse to Mr. Malinowski's widow?

00:13 I will now and I have before this morning, yes.

00:16 What have you said to them?

00:18 Well, I said it here in open forum, but what I said was of course...

00:22 Have you talked to them personally?

00:24 I'm sorry?

00:25 Have you talked to them personally? Have you expressed your sympathy to them personally?

00:29 I...

00:30 Would the gentleman yield?

00:30 Or are you just making public statements and issue press releases?

00:32 Would the gentleman yield?

00:33 No. Answer the question, please.

00:36 Yes.

00:36 He just did it.

00:38 All right, thank you. Did you know about this right in advance?

00:42 We do 11,000 operations a year and I believe that...

00:49 Did you know about this one, Mr. Dettelbeck? Yes or no?

00:53 And I believe the first I heard about this matter was after the fact.

00:57 And what... And who have you disciplined? What have you done?

01:00 Sorry?

01:01 What have you done in response to this?

01:04 We went together with the Little Rock Police who were also present.

01:08 We went and we requested an outside agency to do an independent investigation.

01:13 We fully cooperated with that investigation.

01:15 That investigation, my understanding is the file has now been turned over.

01:19 I think this committee is going to want to look into this matter in much greater detail.

01:24 I need to press on.

01:26 Let me just ask you a general question.

01:28 What do you think is the purpose of the Second Amendment?

01:31 Like all the amendments, the purpose of the Second Amendment is to protect

01:35 fundamental rights of Americans.

01:36 And you believe that a fundamental right of America includes the right to bear arms?

01:40 I believe that all the rights in the Bill of Rights are important

01:43 and fundamental rights, including the Second Amendment.

01:46 Right. In the second half of 2021,

01:49 only 34 inspections led to a firearms dealer having their license revoked.

01:56 However, the number of qualifying violations dramatically increased to 252 in 2022

02:02 and jumped again to 407 in 2023.

02:06 Now, either there's been an exponential increase in crooked firearms dealers since Biden took over,

02:11 or there's been an exponential increase in zealotry by your agency.

02:16 I assume you would say it's the latter.

02:18 The laws that Congress has passed and have been in effect

02:23 say that willful violators of the Gun Control Act

02:26 are subject to, they may have their licenses revoked.

02:29 Well, we've seen an exponential increase.

02:31 I mean, just off the charts since you took office.

02:35 And that seems to coincide with a dramatic reduction

02:39 in people willing to legally expose themselves to pre-dawn raids on their homes.

02:44 The number of voluntary business closures post-inspection has risen sharply from 24 in 2021

02:50 to 69 in 2022 to 80 in 2023.

02:56 Now, this tells me that this is a deliberate policy to drive firearms dealers out of the business,

03:02 not only with the reign of legal terror,

03:04 but in the case of Mr. Malinowski, the actual reign of physical terror as well.

03:09 Now, I know you're not going to agree with that,

03:11 can you at least see how that appears to others?

03:13 Respectfully, I disagree.

03:15 The enhanced enforcement policy, which is publicly available, the terms of it,

03:20 state very clearly that we're not talking about paperwork violations.

03:23 We're talking about willful violations that impact on public safety,

03:27 like refusing to run a background check, selling to a felon, not responding.

03:34 But what we're seeing is an exponential increase in actions against dealers,

03:42 followed by an exponential increase in dealers just saying,

03:45 "This isn't worth the legal exposure. I'm out of here."

03:49 What's involved in getting a federal firearms license?

03:52 There is a process to get a license, right?

03:55 You fill out an application, you pay a $200 fee,

04:00 and there's a compliance inspection, or not a compliance inspection,

04:02 an application inspection that goes on.

04:06 But just like the inspections and the process,

04:11 for a revocation, for a compliance matter, there is ample due process.

04:16 There are hearings that go on.

04:17 I understand that, but it's a fairly lengthy process.

04:22 Now, your agency's rule says, quote,

04:25 that even a single transaction or offer to engage in a transaction,

04:30 or offer to engage in a transaction,

04:33 when combined with other evidence, may be sufficient to require a license as an FFL.

04:37 What does that mean?

04:38 That is one sentence out of a 16-page rule.

04:46 Well, what does that say?

04:47 The rule says, this is a matter before the courts,

04:50 our positions on all of these things are in pages and pages of briefs

04:55 that it would take far too long, and I know you have time limits,

04:58 but I refer you to those briefs.

05:00 It's not a secret, but what I would say to you is,

05:02 it says, black and white, things that might lead to a determination

05:08 under the totality of circumstances that somebody is engaged in the business,

05:12 and things that don't.

05:14 So, if somebody admires my gun collection, and I say, you want to buy it?

05:19 Would that require an FFL?

05:21 There is a specific provision that Congress has passed

05:25 that says that people who are bona fide collectors can liquidate

05:28 their collections without becoming a licensee.

05:32 But that's not what this rule says?

05:33 But of course, you would have to, and I think that's what you described,

05:36 but you'd have to look at, obviously, the whole...

05:38 That's not what your new rule says.

05:40 Respectfully, I disagree.

05:42 It says in black and white that that is allowed.

Tom McClintock Asks ATF Head Point Blank: 'What Do You Think Is The Purpose of The 2nd Amendment?'

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