Tom Carper Calls For Permitting Transparency To 'Increase Public Buy-In'

4 months ago

During a Senate Homeland Security Committee hearing prior to the Congressional recess, Sen. Tom Carper (D-DE) questioned the Executive Director of the Federal Permitting Improvement Steering Council Eric Beightel about permitting reforms and coordination.

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Transcript

00:00Thank you, Senator Rosen. Senator Carper, you're recognized for your questions.

00:03Thanks, thanks so much. Mr. Badel, I understand we've discussed how your name

00:08is pronounced and it's Badel with a, I guess a D, is that right? It's Badel. Badel, okay.

00:14We welcome you. I understand your wife Hillary is with you. Would you raise your

00:18hand, ma'am? All right, I understand you got some children here, a daughter. Ainsley,

00:23is that you? Ainsley, raise your hand, Ainsley, go ahead. All right, and Ainsley, do you

00:27have a brother? What's his name? All right, Max, to the max. And Ainsley, do you

00:35have any grandparents here? Are these your parents? That's a

00:41question. Are these your parents? All right, good. All right, well we thank you

00:47all for coming. My first question is, and I ask variations of this question, but if

00:52you try to get people to explain complex concepts, I say, how would you

00:57explain this to your grandparents? I say, how would you explain this or that to

01:02your grandparents? I'm gonna say, how would you explain what you do to your

01:05in-laws? The simplest way to explain what we do is that we are a, we're an agency

01:14that provides coordination among the various federal agencies that are

01:17responsible for permitting big infrastructure projects. And what we do

01:21is provide transparency and predictability and accountability to

01:24the permitting process. Many times people don't understand the various steps that

01:29go into permitting a big infrastructure project, and what we do is break it down

01:33into the individual steps and the milestones to achieve those, those

01:38permits, and provide a timeline for the accomplishment of that task. And so

01:43people can look at it and understand if it starts on day one, we have until day

01:48365 to achieve this outcome. I'm looking at your in-laws and thumbs up, thumbs down,

01:55what do you think? All right. They're rolling their eyes. I get that a lot, Senator.

02:01Not really. I see you're drawing over your left shoulders. I just come from the

02:06Environment and Public Works Committee. We're just having a hearing on the Key

02:10Bridge, you know, the bridge in Baltimore that was badly damaged, and I'm gonna

02:15slip back over there as soon as I get to ask some more questions.

02:20Rebecca Higgins, who's a longtime member of the Environment and Public Works Committee,

02:24helped us write big parts of the Inflation Reduction Act, which was hugely

02:28helpful during my tenure in the committee. So Rebecca, it's nice to see you.

02:33My question, last year the Environment and Public Works Committee held, I think

02:39not one, but a couple of hearings on permitting. Common theme at our hearings

02:44was the importance of public engagement, as you may know. We learned that when

02:48project sponsors understand community concerns early in the process, sponsors

02:54can often include solutions in the project's design. Public engagement can

03:00build trust, it can increase public buy-in, can help resolve issues, can help

03:05prevent litigation, and ultimately it can save time and money. My question, based on

03:12your experience, how does community engagement facilitate timely completion

03:18of reviews and improve permitting outcomes? I appreciate that question,

03:25Senator. The, you know, early and meaningful engagement is a kind of

03:30foundational piece of effective environmental review. The bipartisan

03:35permitting reform implementation rule, the NEPA Phase 2 rule, emphasizes early

03:40public engagement as part of the NEPA process. What we do at the Permitting

03:44Council for our Fast 41 covered projects is ensure that we are providing

03:48transparent information to the public about the project and its status in the

03:53permitting process. Ultimately, the earlier you engage with affected

03:59stakeholders and have meaningful conversations with them to identify

04:03their concerns and also potential issues on a project, the better you are able to

04:09incorporate those concerns into project design, into the analysis, to ensure that

04:14you are identifying alternatives that will not result in avoidable impacts

04:22that would then trigger further complications down the road. The earlier

04:26you engage, the sooner you identify the issues, the earlier you can resolve them.

04:29What often happens without early engagement and meaningful public

04:33involvement is that issues will emerge later in the process that you could have

04:38identified sooner that will have a much more material effect on the permitting

04:42timeline. If you can identify early and resolve them early, you can have much

04:47more predictability, and at the end of the day, project sponsors are willing to

04:51account for a slightly longer timeline if they know that it's going to be

04:55longer. The unpredictability of unexpected delays is what can really

04:59cause problems. I'm reminded of a hearing that we held before the

05:03Environment and Public Works Committee. I think it was late last year, maybe late

05:07last year, and the issue of what can we do to ensure better outcomes in

05:18projects. We had a wide range of witnesses, different views. You

05:23wouldn't expect them to agree on something like this, and they all came

05:26back in their testimony and said we're better off when we hear

05:32community concerns at the beginning of the process rather than at the end.

05:38Let me ask a second question with respect to the Inflation Reduction Act funds.

05:46As you mentioned in your testimony, the Inflation Reduction Act included some

05:51$350 million, with an M, million dollars, the Environmental Review Improvement Fund,

05:59which we created, as you'll recall, in the FAST-41 Act. Oftentimes when federal

06:04agencies have adequate resources, permitting is more efficient, and my

06:09question is now how has the $350 million from the Inflation Reduction Act for the

06:14Environmental Review Improvement Fund, how has that helped the permitting

06:19council support other federal agencies, states, and tribes in improving permitting

06:25reviews? And if you could give us a couple of examples. Absolutely. So we have

06:31provided $165 million to federal agencies to increase capacity at those

06:37agencies, whether that be hiring FTEs at the agency, contract support, or other

06:43tools, templates that they can develop to improve the efficiency and timeliness of

06:47the environment review permitting process. We've also invested $30 million

06:51in IT solutions at the agencies to help them build, modernize, I should say, their

06:58IT infrastructure to bring it into the 21st century in many cases. There is, you

07:04know, an example that I like to cite is that the Coast Guard used to use a

07:07Microsoft Word document for their bridge permit application, and with the

07:11investments that we've made at the Coast Guard, they're actually making an online

07:13portal for the bridge application, which will make it much more efficient for

07:17review and intake of those permitting actions. We've also provided funds to

07:22tribes who are engaged in the environment review and permitting for

07:27FAST-41 covered projects through our Tribal Assistance Program. Mr. Chairman, if

07:33I can, can I do a follow-up question? How is the permitting council using the

07:38environmental review improvement funds to promote early and meaningful community

07:43engagement? So our tools that we are investing in at the agencies and the

07:49resources that we are investing in will enable the agencies to do more

07:54meaningful outreach. It will make the process more transparent for project

07:59applicants and the public. We are also obviously using our dashboard to provide

08:05vital information to the public on the status of the projects. Also, you know, I

08:10mentioned the Tribal Assistance Program. That is all about engagement with tribes

08:14who are engaged in FAST-41 program. Okay, good, thanks. I have a bunch of other

08:19questions I have, and I'll submit those for the record. I need to get back to my

08:23other committee. Mr. Chairman, thanks for letting me jump in here. I want to

08:28say to your children again, I love it when folks, witnesses, bring spouses,

08:34children, in-laws, and it's a family affair. I just want to say to your kids,

08:39how old are your kids? They're 9 and 11. Who's 9? Daughter? Max. Yeah, son 11.

08:46Let me talk to the two of you just for a second, okay? We have, as you know, 50

08:52states. 50 states. He's our chairman. He's our leader on this committee. He's from

08:57the state of Michigan. I'm from the state of Delaware, although I'm a huge fan of

09:01the Detroit Tigers, as he knows. And we're happy about that.

09:06But we have, just for your kids, we have 50 states. Every state has two

09:12United States senators, and our job is to help make the rules for the country.

09:17That's what we do. We help make the rules for the country. And we don't do this by

09:21ourselves. We have a lot of people helping us who are sitting behind us and in the

09:25audience as well. But that's what we do, help make the rules for the country. And

09:29we're delighted to have a chance to work with your dad, your husband, your

09:33son-in-law in this effort. This is important stuff. This is

09:37important stuff for our country today and going forward. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

09:42Thank you, Senator Carper. Hopefully they'll both get extra credit for school

09:46today. This is a civics lesson that's...

Tom Carper Calls For Permitting Transparency To 'Increase Public Buy-In'

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