At the age of nearly 91, Sunderland man Ron Lawson is one of few people in the country who has memories of life during the Second World War.
As the 80th anniversary of D-Day approached, he spoke to Sunderland Echo reporter Chris Cordner about them.
As the 80th anniversary of D-Day approached, he spoke to Sunderland Echo reporter Chris Cordner about them.
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00:00 Well Ron we're here to talk about your memories of living through the war years in Sunderland.
00:04 Yes.
00:05 Which you did, you were a young lad who grew up throughout that period.
00:09 What's your earliest memory of the war years?
00:13 I was six when the war started and 12 when I'd finished.
00:18 But six year old, my father was drafted to work at Vickers Armstrong's.
00:27 He wasn't signed up into the forces.
00:30 Being a skilled time served fitter he was drafted to Vickers Armstrong's making munitions.
00:39 And that's the earliest he was working all the time.
00:48 He was also a warden.
00:52 I don't know whether he was a warden or a fire watcher but he was issued with his tin helmet.
00:57 And when he wasn't at work he was out at night time fire watching.
01:03 And that was because of the incendiary bombs?
01:07 Yes.
01:08 Yeah.
01:08 Yeah which were very dangerous.
01:11 And I know that you remember some of the incidents of the air raids over Sunderland.
01:18 Sorry, the what?
01:20 You remember some of the air raids that happened over Sunderland?
01:22 Oh yes, yeah.
01:24 One of our play areas was Gunsfield.
01:31 That's the farmer gun, G-U-N-N.
01:33 There were a couple of anti-aircraft gun emplacements on there.
01:41 And obviously we were manned by soldiers.
01:46 We used to play on that area.
01:52 And of course if there was a raid the anti-aircraft guns were shooting at the planes.
01:58 And what went up had to come down again.
02:01 It was more dangerous to walk about during a raid because of the shrapnel from the guns
02:07 than it was from the bombs.
02:08 A piece of shrapnel, quite a big one, came through our roof.
02:15 It came through the tiles, through the ceiling and landed on the bathroom floor.
02:22 And it was quite a big one.
02:23 When there was a raid on, or I should say when a raid had finished,
02:29 the lads of the square, the square I lived in, was 30 houses.
02:33 We used to go out hunting for the biggest piece of shrapnel amongst the lads.
02:41 See, who's got the biggest piece?
02:42 Because there was some big pieces.
02:46 Yeah.
02:46 So I mean as a young lad, was it a time,
02:50 I suppose it's a bit different for an adult back then, it would have been worry.
02:54 As a young lad I think you've said before that you just thought it was a big adventure.
02:59 It was, it was just so much fun.
03:01 It was something that will occupy us.
03:04 We're never worried about anything like that, not at my age.
03:11 It was a great time really.
03:17 So when the shrapnel came through the house,
03:20 were you all out, were you all in a shelter or were you in the house?
03:24 In the shelter.
03:24 The air raids themselves worsened in 1943.
03:32 And it reached a stage where it was pointless going to bed.
03:37 We just went straight into the air raid shelter because you knew very well there would be a raid.
03:46 My father had a, it was an armless shelter I should explain.
03:50 And he had it boarded out, there was a double bunk there for my mother and father and a single one for me.
03:58 And we just slept in there.
04:01 Usually the raids went on for a few hours.
04:06 So did you get much sleep?
04:09 Not a lot.
04:13 What was the noise like when that was coming down?
04:16 Tremendous.
04:17 Yeah.
04:18 Yeah.
04:20 Yes, very noisy.
04:24 And there must have been of course a worry that is it going to land on you or is it going to,
04:30 could you tell if it was close?
04:32 My mother and father obviously were worried about that sort of thing.
04:35 But it was just a passing time, never worried about it.
04:43 Yeah.
04:43 Did you look out? Did you watch?
04:46 Oh no.
04:46 Once in the shelter there was a door on it, it was closed and wait until the sirens went all clear.
04:54 Yeah.
04:54 But I do know that you do have memories of one night when you saw
04:58 parts of Sunderland burning in the distance.
05:02 Yes.
05:04 I remember the garden that we had with the house was big.
05:08 There were five gardens against ours.
05:12 It was a corner house.
05:13 And my father's there being a watcher or warden, whatever he was,
05:21 drew my attention, we looked over the back garden towards the town
05:27 and that was the King's Theatre going up in flames.
05:30 And you could see it, miles away.
05:33 The flames shooting up into the sky.
05:35 Yeah.
05:37 And another part of the war of course was rationing.
05:43 That must have been an interesting experience.
05:46 It didn't worry me.
05:47 My mother kept me well fed.
05:52 Yeah.
05:52 She had the worry of the rationing.
05:58 And the women of the street used to get together and there was a barter system.
06:05 Those that had little or more used to do a bit of swap around.
06:11 Yeah.
06:11 Because you used to get so much on your ration didn't you?
06:14 So presumably...
06:16 At one time very little really, very little.
06:19 Yeah.
06:20 And this book here, which is excellent,
06:24 relates every day throughout the war what happened.
06:30 And has the rationing in it.
06:32 Even has the football scoring.
06:34 Because Roker Park was bombed wasn't it?
06:38 Oh yes.
06:39 I got to know Roker Park later on.
06:44 I was certainly a gate man.
06:46 Yeah.
06:46 But then of course as the war went on,
06:50 you would have grown used to what was happening.
06:53 And it developed to the point where we got to things like D-Day.
06:58 Do you remember that at all?
07:00 Not really.
07:01 There was no celebration for D-Day because the war virtually
07:06 had come to an important point where they invaded Normandy.
07:12 Nothing was done really until we reached VE-Day,
07:17 or Victory in Europe.
07:19 But D-Day wasn't recognised at all really.
07:22 But presumably it had been talked about for a while,
07:27 you know, was it going to happen?
07:29 Oh yes, yes.
07:31 I mean I've read that Eisenhower was then in charge.
07:38 And he set a date and then it was delayed because of the weather.
07:45 But from radio they kept in contact with what was happening.
07:50 Yes.
07:50 My father liked to know.
07:51 Yeah, so you'd have been gathered around the radio.
07:54 Yeah.
07:54 Was it a certain time of day when things came up?
07:59 I don't know, I can't remember that bit.
08:01 Yeah.
08:01 But you do remember VE-Day?
08:05 Oh yes.
08:06 My father had a big radiogram with lots of records.
08:13 And he took it outside, put it in the front garden,
08:16 and played it loud.
08:19 Not the ideal service for dancing, concrete.
08:24 But everybody in the street and in the square I should say,
08:28 was out dancing.
08:30 It was something to celebrate.
08:32 After six years it was worth celebrating.
08:37 Yeah, and of course you'd have been quite a bit older than when you first went into war.
08:42 At the top of the square where I was, was a gas lamp.
08:46 Because of course when the square was built it wasn't ...
08:53 electricity wasn't common.
08:57 When my mother and father moved in, in 1931,
09:01 they were given the option of either the normal gas lighting or this new electric.
09:10 The lamp post outside was a gas lamp.
09:13 You had a lamp light that used to come round at night,
09:16 switch it on, round again in the morning, switch it off.
09:20 There was a table at the top like this on the lamp post.
09:26 And we used to put a rope round it and could swing round the lamp post.
09:30 We had all sorts of computers, no such thing.
09:36 We made our own amusement.
09:38 Yeah.
09:39 And quite happy.
09:41 Yeah.
09:42 Quite happy.
09:43 Yeah.
09:43 And of course night times would have been blackout.
09:46 Yes.
09:46 You wouldn't have been able to do anything.
09:49 Yeah.
09:50 What was day time like?
09:52 Did you still go to school?
09:53 Yes.
09:54 I was at Hilton Road School.
09:58 It was quite a walk.
10:01 I could never understand.
10:03 Ford Halverlock School was closer but I was sent to Hilton Road which was quite a walk.
10:12 But we were there.
10:14 The only time when we weren't there was when they were digging up the school playground
10:19 to put in the area shelters.
10:20 There was infants, juniors and seniors school there.
10:26 Infants and juniors went into the area shelter in their school grounds.
10:31 The seniors had to walk up to the football ground in Hilton Road.
10:36 So the war came to an end and there would have been celebration then to know it was all over.
10:44 Yes.
10:46 But rationing went on.
10:47 Well I helped organise a scout camp down at Whidbey.
10:54 And in 1952 I still had to collect the ration books in of the lads
11:00 to be able to get the meat from the local butcher.
11:02 And that was 1952.
11:05 Still rationing.
11:06 It shows you the extent that it affected the world.
11:10 The country itself was near bankrupt because of the war.
11:13 Yes.
11:14 But for you, as you remember, you were a young lad.
11:19 Oh yes, yes.
11:20 Still enjoy my life.