Beyond Academics: Acharya Prashant's IIT Memoirs || IIM-Konversations (2023)

Acharya Prashant

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Transcript

00:00 Let's go back to your journey during IIT.

00:06 You know you wanted to get into ISN, that's why you wanted an entry through the IIT gates.

00:10 When you actually got in, did you feel misplaced?

00:14 Did you feel that you don't belong here?

00:17 Like a lot of students do probably because we hear a lot of these stories, a lot of these

00:21 students were very young and they prepare very hard and their parents' expectation

00:26 is there, a lot of money is put into their education.

00:31 What was your IIT dream like?

00:34 Living that IIT dream like?

00:36 I didn't have an IIT dream.

00:39 It was just a pathway.

00:41 So it's not as if I was carrying humongous expectations and therefore I might have felt

00:47 disappointed or something.

00:48 IIT to me was a breath of fresh air.

00:52 So I lived a fairly protected life before IIT.

00:57 So I went there.

00:59 Then by the time I got into the second year, I got a bike and very free, very liberal and

01:12 equally challenging environment and massive pool of talent, burstling energy and so much

01:23 to do.

01:24 I mean I picked up sports, I got into dramatics, debating, writing, so much.

01:33 I was a bit chubby when I entered.

01:37 I just lost so much weight.

01:41 I had to get all my jeans restitched.

01:45 Because I was busy all the time.

01:47 There was so much to do and one didn't want to miss out on any of those things.

01:52 If there is nothing else to do, go just pick up the racket and there is table tennis.

01:56 All the sports and I'm talking of the mid-90s.

02:01 India didn't really have too many sporting facilities in all the towns and places, not

02:07 accessible to everybody.

02:10 So it was just very, very happening.

02:20 Something is happening all the time.

02:21 Movies.

02:22 So in the entire day you are in the classes and in the labs and then you return and then

02:30 you just eat something.

02:33 The mess food was not too good, so you don't want to eat too much.

02:37 And then you get busy with your sports or something.

02:41 And then you don't want to miss the movie.

02:44 So you go to the movies and that was my first experience with the theaters.

02:48 Because 80s, the theaters were anyway not doing well, if you remember, that was the

02:55 time of the VCR.

02:58 So I had not really been to the movie theaters.

03:00 So when I went to my first semester, I found myself rushing to the movies every second

03:07 or third day.

03:09 And then going to the hall and then sometimes creating a ruckus there.

03:15 Stuff that, you know, the obedient and disciplined good boys never get to do at home.

03:21 So I was doing all those things, night outs.

03:25 That's what IIT meant to me.

03:28 And competitiveness.

03:30 Just when you thought that you had eased a particular course, you discover that there

03:34 are 10 of them ahead of you.

03:37 And you think that you couldn't have done it any better.

03:40 And then you realize what raw talent alone can do.

03:46 So, you saw that you might have been heads and shoulders above everybody at the school

03:55 level or the district level, you know, in your own province.

03:59 But when you come to a place like IIT Delhi, you discover that there are so many of them

04:04 truly ahead of you in terms of pure talent.

04:07 And then you also see what hard work can do.

04:10 You saw many others who are not so talented, but just by dint of their diligence, they

04:17 would make it into the top 10 in the department.

04:20 So all kinds of things were happening and it depended on you what you wanted to extract

04:24 from that place.

04:25 I think I did a decently okay job of extracting value from those four years.

04:34 I was not a daily one, but quite regular at the library as well.

04:41 So there was reading, there was sports, there was co-curriculars, and politics.

04:49 I'd stood for the student body elections.

04:52 I was quite deeply into it at one point and it was all around fun.

04:59 Thank you very much for an honest answer to that.

05:03 I want to move a little beyond your IIT journey.

05:07 Let's move on to your IIM journey now.

05:09 I know for a fact that it was a precursor to your IS dream that you had.

05:15 That's why you went into IIT also.

05:17 But why joining IIM then?

05:19 Because once you were done with your IIT, you could have worked at a place, you were

05:23 an engineer.

05:24 Why did you decide to study for another two years?

05:28 See all of it was just evolving.

05:30 It's not as if these are episodic decisions.

05:41 These things emerged over a period of time.

05:46 So there was a background to my decision to join the civil services.

05:54 But when you are in IIT Delhi, the capital city, and you start seeing how the world operates,

06:02 you also start seeing how the world of private enterprise operates, not only in India, but

06:07 also across the world.

06:12 Then you start seeing that there are powerful forces other than and beyond the government

06:22 machinery that are affecting and changing the world continuously.

06:27 When you are in a place like Kanpur or Lucknow, the places where I got my education from most

06:36 of it, the government is big.

06:40 And there is hardly any private enterprise, even if there is private enterprise scattered

06:44 and not really of much worth.

06:49 In Delhi, that's not the same.

06:53 Also you get exposed to the world and the internet came on in a big way in '96, '97

07:02 in the campus.

07:05 We had a top class connection and we had access to all kinds of places on the web much before

07:15 the rest of the country did.

07:19 So I started seeing that the power to change does not belong only to the government, more

07:28 specifically the bureaucracy.

07:30 There are other ways as well.

07:32 I proceeded with the preparation, the UPSC preparation.

07:37 And the UPSC preparation is itself quite an enriching process, especially the general

07:44 studies paper.

07:46 So I learned and learned and learned more.

07:49 There was two, three, four intensive years starting right from my second year at IIT,

07:57 when I became very regular with the newspapers and the journals and gleaned as much as possible

08:05 from as many places as possible.

08:10 And I started seeing the limitations of bureaucracy.

08:14 But still I wrote the exam.

08:17 Curiously what happened was that by the time I got through, I was already disillusioned.

08:25 So disillusioned that I walked into my UPSC interview in a pair of jeans.

08:31 I had already made up my mind that even if I get selected, I'm not going to join.

08:36 So that was the reason I had filled up the CAT form as well, along with the UPSC one.

08:45 Though UPSC continued to remain close to my heart for historical reasons.

08:53 It had been my dream since a decade or so.

08:57 So that hangover you could say continued even after the breakup.

09:03 But CAT had come in and I could see that private enterprise means a lot.

09:10 I didn't really get the time to prepare for CAT.

09:13 November was my UPSC means.

09:16 CAT was on 9th or 10th of December.

09:20 So could hardly give it a month, less than a month.

09:24 But was fortunate enough to scrap through and landed at Ahmedabad.

09:33 You were scraping at an examination but you landed with the topmost institute possible.

09:38 Were you aware that it was the topmost institute that you were going to at that time?

09:44 I really didn't know that it is held in such high esteem.

09:49 I really didn't know.

09:50 In fact, I refused to fill up the forms for Indore and CozyCode.

09:59 So only the top three IAMS or something.

10:02 I said I'm not going to go to the rest of them.

10:06 My ignorance.

10:07 I didn't know that they were really so big.

10:14 And I could scrape through probably because I didn't feel the pressure to perform.

10:20 When you don't have expectations from yourself, it sometimes happens that you perform beyond

10:27 your regular level.

10:29 Maybe that's what happened on the exam day that year.

10:33 So I landed there and I was not very happy to join IAM because the UPSC offer was there.

10:43 The call letter was there.

10:46 I was being called to the academy and instead of going to the academy, I was going to Ahmedabad.

10:55 This is which academy we're talking about?

10:58 Masuri.

10:59 Oh, the IAS academy.

11:01 Yes.

11:02 Okay.

11:03 So instead of going to Labasna, I was going to Ahmedabad.

11:08 This is a choice a lot of people would like in their lives.

11:12 You are projecting as a problem.

11:16 I actually wept on the day I reached the campus because I'd never wanted to be there.

11:26 And the fact is, had I secured IAS proper, I would probably had gone to the academy.

11:36 Just a few marks more.

11:39 In fact, in today's scenario, my rank would have sufficed to get me at least IPS, but

11:50 that was not the case that particular year.

11:54 So it was with a very heavy heart that I made the decision to go to IAM.

12:04 And even then I didn't really leave the bureaucratic thing.

12:12 I asked them for a sabbatical and they were gracious enough to extend it.

12:19 And I actually resigned only after I graduated from IAM.

12:25 So for two years, I was actually in service.

12:33 So technically I have two years of experience of being with the government.

12:39 And though I didn't really work even for a month, hardly for eight, nine days or something.

12:46 That's my active thing.

12:47 But you were saying that your heart was not in IAM Ahmedabad.

12:53 And if your heart is not at a place that you are selecting or going to, you are inviting

13:00 chaos in your life.

13:02 It's something that I have understood in my personal life that has happened.

13:07 So what kind of chaos are we talking about?

13:10 What exactly was happening and how were you dealing with your anxieties at that point

13:15 in time?

13:16 My past was calling me to the academy.

13:24 And I also had my attempts left.

13:29 I had just begun.

13:31 So I could have appeared another time and gotten into IAS proper and was very feasible.

13:38 I just had to improve my rank a bit.

13:42 So my past was calling, beckoning.

13:45 On the other hand, my reason, my rationale was saying that the bureaucracy is not the

13:51 place where you can bring about radical changes.

13:58 And I had become quite a bit of radical by then.

14:03 I didn't want management or cosmetic changes.

14:11 I wanted to append it all.

14:14 I wanted a very shift of the center the entire world operates from.

14:21 And even if I forced myself, it was impossible to not to see that such a thing cannot happen

14:30 via the bureaucracy.

14:32 The bureaucracy is not the place where revolutionaries can do their work.

14:40 And something in me was beginning to see that nothing short of a revolution would suffice.

14:47 So as I said, with a heavy heart, I had to bid goodbye to my IAS dream.

14:58 But was it satisfying for you at IIM Ahmedabad when you spent those two years?

15:03 You know, it's a struggle.

15:06 Every time when your heart is not there, you know for a fact that you have to complete

15:10 this degree.

15:11 But every day it's you waking up to something that you probably don't want to do.

15:16 How do you manage that?

15:19 See when it comes to knowledge, I'm a sucker.

15:23 So I do not really bother how that knowledge would benefit me in the future.

15:32 So if they are teaching me economics there, I'm fully present.

15:38 If you are teaching me strategy or finance or accounting or HR or communications, I'm

15:45 available.

15:47 So in the classroom, I was very attentive, very active.

15:53 It says that when you are with yourself in your solitude, you have your inner demons.

16:00 And then questions regarding existence, purpose and even the future, they pop up.

16:07 So they did used to be there.

16:11 But I learned a lot.

16:14 It's not as if I neglected academics.

16:16 I did decently in academics as well.

16:21 I wasn't one of the toppers or something, but I was doing okay.

16:29 In my second year, I got into dramatics in a big way.

16:37 So then entire second year, I spent doing plays.

16:45 So there's that society I am at.

16:48 And I would go and pick up scripts from Badal Sarkar and Ayn Rand and Ionesco and Mohan

16:59 Rakesh and great scripts, wonderful scripts and would direct, would act.

17:09 And I gave myself totally to that.

17:11 In fact, all my angst got expressed on the stage itself.

17:17 Those plays were an expression of what I was going through.

17:22 So that's how the period at IIM was spent.

17:26 A lot of what I learned there has proven very useful.

17:31 I use it on a day to day basis.

17:34 And sometimes when you look at people who have not been beneficiaries of management

17:40 education, it's then that you realize how much you owe to an IIM.

17:48 Because there are certain things that I find quite obvious and commonsensical, courtesy

17:58 what I have been taught.

18:02 But since those things appear very obvious now, so you just forget how important they

18:11 are and how much they are missed by those who do not have that knowledge or skills.

18:22 So it's not as if those years went to waste in any sense.

18:27 Those were years of tremendous significance.

18:30 I was surrounded with peers who were quite inspirational when it comes to application

18:39 and diligence and focus and all that.

18:42 Equally, I could see that profit and career were the sole motivators.

18:54 So that place hardened me a lot.

18:57 I said I'm not going to go with the flow here.

19:01 I'm not going to belong to the campus.

19:04 I'm not going to be one of them, though in many, many ways I really find them inspirational.

19:15 But when it comes to meaning and purpose, I'm not going to have it from them.

19:24 And the flow there, mind you, is quite strong.

19:28 And it's quite an achievement just to not go with the flow.

19:34 So I often say that I am in some sense, those two years really hardened me and prepared

19:44 me for the challenges ahead.

19:50 Those two years were years of, in some sense, solid rebellion.

19:57 Nobody enters IIMs, especially Ahmedabad, to do plays.

20:03 And I was doing plays all the time.

20:06 Nobody goes there to be sitting at the Gandhi ashram half the time.

20:11 And that's what I was doing.

20:13 And Vastrapur and Gandhi ashram, they are quite a distance from each other.

20:21 But I would pick up my bike, go there, somehow earn the money to distribute stuff to the

20:29 kids there.

20:30 There was an NGO by the name Manav Rachna that operated from the ashram itself.

20:36 So I would teach the kids, be with them.

20:41 Actually the kids were supporting me.

20:42 That's the reality.

20:44 Because they were doing me a favor by spending time with me, small kids.

20:52 I would be just so happy if one of them gets to watch this or one of them connects to me

20:59 someday.

21:00 But they were so young, they would hardly have a memory of what was going on.

21:05 So that's what I did at IIM and just grinding your teeth and clenching your fists and deciding

21:14 I'm not going to belong to the system.

21:17 Yes, yes, I am here to be educated.

21:20 I'm grateful I'm getting this knowledge from this campus.

21:23 But I do not partake in the spirit of careerism that this place has.

21:30 I'm not here to make a career.

21:31 I'm grateful you are giving me all this knowledge.

21:34 But the way everybody is just looking at internships and jobs and placements and this and that,

21:43 I'm not participating in this.

21:47 Absolutely.

21:48 And I want some nuggets of you on this.

21:54 Every B-School that I go to, I don't see this bit that you just mentioned as a focus.

22:00 They don't talk about what the ultimate learning is.

22:03 And they start the conversation with what the ROI is going to be.

22:07 And right now we're talking about 25 lakhs of loan, rupees of loan, right?

22:13 And that's something that they're entering this organization with.

22:16 Now in the back of their minds, they're always thinking that, do I have the luxury to actually

22:22 not think about money?

22:25 Then you must see whether the whole thing is worth it at all.

22:31 I shelled out a total of 2.5 lakh rupees, you know, and that included the cost of the

22:38 desktop that I was given.

22:41 So that was not really a consideration, even though I too went there on a student loan.

22:47 But if it's 25 lakhs these days, one has to very, very singly consider whether the whole

22:55 thing makes sense.

22:59 For an IM probably it does, but if it's 25 lakhs even for the lesser institutions, if

23:07 I may say so, then it's not advisable just doling out that amount.

23:14 Because what's the point?

23:17 The peak, the prime of your life, you are spending just somehow managing your EMIs hardly

23:26 makes sense.

23:29 I don't know why one should feel the pressure to have that degree on your CV against a name.

23:38 So much can be done just even without that thing.

23:44 If I look at it in fact, I have many times more entrepreneurs from my IIT batch than

23:56 I have from my IIM batch.

24:02 The IIT batch has been much more fertile in terms of yielding entrepreneurs and a couple

24:13 of unicorns as well.

24:16 So it's not as if you really need that business education to do even materially well in life.

24:25 Not compulsory, though useful, certainly useful.

24:29 Are you hinting that this mindset of getting a job hinders them from innovating?

24:41 The packages are bigger.

24:44 So the stakes are higher.

24:46 And that lowers your risk appetite.

24:51 The packages in an IIM are like two or three times bigger compared to an IIT.

24:58 Though there is a distribution, I'm just talking of the average package.

25:02 It is quite possible that a top IITian gets a package that even a fellow from an IIM,

25:07 Ahmedabad may not match.

25:10 So that's possible.

25:11 But when you get paid more, coming from an IIM, and you get paid more, it starts making

25:21 lesser sense to quit everything and go out and brave the winds and the cold and secure

25:32 funding and feel the pressure and bear the grind and do all those things.

25:41 And also, you are 24, 25 by the time you complete your MBA education.

25:47 So for many people, it's another phase of life that awaits them.

25:52 So they really are not in a position to take risks in a big way and in a prolonged way.

25:59 Whereas when you complete your B.Tech or something, you're 21 or 22.

26:04 So you have those three, four extra years when you can just play around with life and

26:09 experiment things and see how it works for you.

26:12 Right.

26:13 Tell me something, Acharya ji.

26:16 This is a conundrum that I also have in my life.

26:20 I always think that, what next?

26:22 This is something that we all think, right?

26:25 Am I doing the right thing?

26:27 Where am I right now?

26:29 Is this something that was meant for me and I'm doing the right thing or not?

26:32 And what next that's coming for me?

26:35 Is this something that constantly kind of eats you up as a professional?

26:39 You see, if you are doing the right thing right now, that thing decides what next.

26:46 So I have had the luxury of never being tormented by that question.

26:55 In fact, I always have much more on my plate.

26:58 So the first question I suppose that you asked today, you know, what's my state of mind?

27:03 I said, wonderment.

27:05 You could say I'm always overawed by what's going on.

27:10 And challenge.

27:12 So you're never asking what next.

27:16 In fact, you have to ask yourself, now there is so much, what to keep and what to discard.

27:23 And how to prioritize.

27:25 So if you pick up the right identity for yourself today, and the consequent right action, the

27:37 decision has been made for you already then, when it comes to the future.

27:44 Because the right work is just so overwhelming that you cannot ever call it done or completed

27:59 or discarded.

28:01 It starts owning you, it becomes your master.

28:05 And it starts dictating your future.

28:10 It's like a love affair.

28:11 Once you get into it, see, you have a kid at home, let's say.

28:15 You become a father or you become a mother or something.

28:18 You have a kid at home.

28:19 Now you lose the luxury to envision the next day.

28:27 How the next day would shape up is decided not by you, but by the kid.

28:32 That's what I'm saying.

28:35 So get a kid.

28:39 I actually do, I have one dog and two cats, all of them rescued.

28:43 And I really think about them the moment you said that.

28:46 It made me think about it.

28:48 [music]

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