Sikorski: 'We have the right to defend ourselves'
Vladimir Putin is testing Europe's resolve in his war for Ukraine, says Polish Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski. Speaking to DW’s Richard Walker at the Ukraine Recovery Conference in Berlin, Sikorski described Russia’s attacks on the Ukrainian power system as "war crimes," saying the situation this winter would be "precarious."
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00:00We're here at the Ukraine Recovery Conference in Berlin and Radek Sikorski, the Polish Foreign
00:05Minister joins us to speak about the day's events and the overall picture with the war
00:09right now.
00:10So, Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky has been here in Berlin, he's really trying
00:14to drum up support to get countries to help Ukraine fix its critical infrastructure that's
00:21been damaged in this war.
00:22For instance, the power system has really been in focus.
00:26He said that half of the power system has been knocked out.
00:30What do you see as Vladimir Putin's strategy here?
00:33What's his plan?
00:34Is he trying to essentially freeze the Ukrainians into surrender this winter?
00:40Yes, of course.
00:41That's clearly the plan, which is a war crime.
00:45You're not supposed to hit civilian targets in a war.
00:52But he's an indicted war criminal already for stealing Ukrainian children.
00:56So he probably feels he has nothing to lose.
00:59And he's hoping that we will not keep up our resolve.
01:05But I hope this conference, in which the Chancellor of Germany, the President of the European
01:10Commission, other leaders, sketched out long-term plans for supporting Ukraine, convinces him
01:18that he can't win.
01:19What about the short term?
01:20And if we look at the situation with power, Zelensky talked about expanding gas production.
01:27There's talk from the European Union about raising the amount of solar production to
01:32try to create a more resilient system.
01:34But how precarious does the power system look going into this winter?
01:38Well, it is precarious.
01:40But Ukraine has a few nuclear power plants.
01:43I hope the Russians are not crazy enough to attack those.
01:47I remind you that winds blow from the west to east.
01:52So that should be a base.
01:55But also remember that already during the war, it was actually in late February 2022,
02:01that Ukraine synchronized its electricity grid with that of the European Union.
02:07And actually, for most of that time, since even during the war, Ukraine was exporting
02:11electricity to Europe, even though she lost the largest nuclear power plant in Europe
02:18in Zaporozhye.
02:19So we will now return the favor by exporting electricity to Ukraine.
02:25And yes, it is a priority.
02:27We should be sending generators, photovoltaic panels, whatever it takes to help Ukrainians
02:36survive the winter.
02:37Now, Zelensky, after speaking at this conference, he also went to the Bundestag, the German
02:41parliament and gave an address there.
02:44The far right and the far left parties there, which have just been emboldened in EU elections,
02:50by and large boycotted his address.
02:53They've been making the case that the West should stop providing arms to Ukraine, that
02:58they should open peace talks with Putin.
03:01What's your message to those parties?
03:03Well, people who say that there is no military solution actually mean that we should allow
03:11Putin to impose his military solution.
03:15Putin can end this war in five minutes by making one phone call to his defense minister
03:20and tell him to get his forces out of Ukraine.
03:22Unfortunately, Ukraine doesn't have that option.
03:25But far right and far left have been supported by Putin for many years, and not just in
03:31cyberspace, also financially, also through agents and meetings and political support.
03:39So I'm not surprised.
03:40But the center has held in the European elections.
03:44And from what I can see, the European Parliament will be as supportive of Ukraine as it has
03:51been hitherto.
03:52And Poland is one of Ukraine's very strongest supporters.
03:56I mean, for viewers who may not know the reasons why, explain why does this count so much for
04:01Poland?
04:02Well, first of all, we were the same country with Ukraine for 400 years.
04:07And secondly, we were both victims of Russian colonialism.
04:12Russians banned Ukrainian in the 19th century.
04:15They also russified Poland.
04:17They've invaded Ukraine and Poland many, many times, many times more than they were
04:23themselves invaded.
04:25And they've been trying to degrade Ukraine to the status of Russian folklore.
04:34They did it in the 19th century.
04:36They did it through genocide in the 20th century.
04:39Five million Ukrainians died in the artificially manufactured famine in the 1930s, accompanied
04:46by mass murder of Ukrainian bearers of culture.
04:52And they're trying to do it again.
04:56First, in the occupied territories, where you have stealing of children, forcing people
05:03to adopt Russian citizenship, illegally drafting people into the Russian army, it's cultural
05:13genocide at the very least, which is completely unacceptable under the principles that we've
05:20established after two bloody world wars.
05:24Putin may not get away with this.
05:26And Poland is right up on, of course, Ukraine's borders.
05:29And in fact, some Russian missiles have been flying over Polish territory.
05:34In fact, you've been saying today that one missile landed close to your home.
05:38Tell us what happened.
05:40Russian missiles get sent towards Ukraine, launched from Russia.
05:48They fly along the Polish-Belorussian border.
05:51And then they make a turn across Polish territory and hit the Ukrainian city of Lviv.
06:00Some others, the Russians lose control of.
06:02And this particular one you're referring to, last year, flew across two thirds of Poland
06:09and landed 10 kilometers from my house near the Polish city of Bydgoszcz, which is in
06:16straight line about 200, maybe 250 kilometers from the border with Germany.
06:23So this is much closer to you than some German people think.
06:28What happens if next time a missile like that lands in Poland and kills Polish citizens?
06:34Well, two Polish citizens have already died because a Russian missile was shot down by
06:41Ukrainian air defenses and the debris killed two Polish citizens.
06:48So this is affecting NATO territory and we have the right to defend ourselves.
06:56So that means you could see NATO shooting down these missiles in future?
07:00Well, certainly if they cross into NATO territory,
07:03we certainly have the hope to defend our own airspace.
07:07Because just very, very briefly, the Ukrainians have been saying, well,
07:12the West shot down Iranian missiles that were flying over Israel, flying towards Israel.
07:18Why doesn't the West do the same to Russian missiles aiming for Ukraine?
07:22We have this discussion, but no decisions have yet been made.
07:26Thank you very much.
07:26Thank you.
07:27Thanks, Sikorsky.