This week on the Marching On Together Leeds United Podcast, Daniel and Lee look ahead to Euro 2024, and Copa América 2024, and look for any Leeds interest in both international tournaments happening this summer. They also look at Leeds' retained list and decide whether the Whites have made good calls. Plus! How will the return of Brenden Aaronson be met at Elland Road?
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00:00Hello and welcome back to the Marching On Together Leeds United podcast. My name is
00:21Daniel and I am joined as ever by the Yorkshire Evening Post's Lee Sobert. Lee, is it alright?
00:29Very well, thank you. Yeah, looking forward to a summer break, as I think we all are to
00:33a certain extent. And yeah, we shall see what happens on that summer break. Well, we allege
00:39summer doesn't feel like a summer at the moment here, does it? That's for sure.
00:44It's dismal weather. It hasn't been warm, it's been windy, it's been cloudy, it's been
00:48cold. It's a great way to start a podcast, but you know, it is the truth.
00:53Yeah, and we shall see what happens while we're away these next weeks in both, well,
00:59obviously Leeds United front and England as well.
01:01Indeed, yes. We'll come on to that a bit later on. We'll start with Leeds United.
01:07Now, the big one this week is about Brendan Aronson, who, of course, hasn't been at Leeds
01:12all season, been away on loan at Union Berlin. But he's set to come back to the club for next
01:19season, which is a bit of a turn up for the books, given Daniel Tharker's comments a little
01:23while ago about the players who left on loan after the relegation at the end of the season
01:27prior to this one. So, Lee, what's your take on that? Do you think it's a good move from
01:32the club? That's somewhat of his nature, of his stature, is coming back, given the fact
01:38that he left straight away after the club was relegated?
01:43Well, I think there's various ways to look at this. And I've got to say, A, it was a
01:46big surprise when the news broke this week. Graham Smith broke that to everybody on the
01:50YEP, which was good to see. And I think, yeah, A, it was big news. And B, it really did seem
01:56to polarise opinion amongst fans. It almost felt like it was 50-50 on this, in terms of
02:01plenty of fans saying, we don't want him back. Once you turned your back on the club,
02:05scarpered off in terms of the loan exit relegation release clause. He wasn't the only one. There
02:09were several of them, obviously. Then you don't come back. But then also plenty of people
02:13seeing the side of it, well, he might come back and actually do a decent job. And I kind
02:17of lean a little bit towards the latter, in terms of the fact that I think and I hope
02:21this will probably end up being a good move. One of the first things I would say about
02:25this is that you can look at what Brendan Aronson did or didn't do in his first season
02:30at Leeds when he signed at the club. £25 million as well, we're talking here. So this
02:34is not like a sort of like, you know, this is a big purchase player, really, who's up
02:37there in terms of the most expensive buyers in Leeds' history. And you can look at what
02:42he did in the first season in the Premier League when they got relegated. He actually,
02:44I remember a few games at the start of that season where actually, you know, he did do
02:48quite well. And a lot of fans were really starting to take to him and sort of think,
02:51you know, his nickname's the Medford Messi, isn't it? You know, and stuff in terms of
02:54his background. So whether it quite ends up being that, I don't know. But obviously,
02:58you know, it was a terrible season for Leeds, for him and for the club in getting relegated.
03:02And that was the end of it. And obviously, off to Union Berlin. But the thing is now,
03:06he's coming back and he's going to be a year older. And the big thing to remember with
03:10this is that he's coming back to a team in the Championship. And that's the first thing
03:12I'd say about this. Junior Firpo, obviously, opinion is still divided a little bit on him
03:17somewhat as well. But I mean, his assists towards the end of the season speak for themselves.
03:21And he's a classic case of someone who seems to have thrived dropping down a level into
03:25the Championship. And put simply, Brendan Aronson at £25 million, someone who has got 41 caps for
03:31the USA, someone who's still young at 23 years old. He should be able to be a decent force in
03:36the Championship. And it'd be very disappointing if he's not. I totally take on board what appears
03:41to be the main concern with this, which is the physicality issue. You know, he's quite
03:45small and slight. And I mean, put simply, he spent far too much time on the floor when he
03:50was at Leeds initially. Obviously, you can say that about people like Somerville and stuff
03:54getting fouled all the time. But with Aronson, it was just too easy often. He was just brushed
03:58off the ball too easily. But he's already done an interview. And he's talked about coming back
04:03to Leeds and sort of saying he's got unfinished business. He said he had an awesome conversation
04:08with Daniel Farker. I think it's how he put it. And he readily admitted himself that one of the
04:12things he has to do and has tried to do is to sort of bulk up a little bit. So it's obviously
04:16something he's aware of. He's definitely, you know, got good skill on him and pace and work
04:22rate. So if he can sort that element of it out, you know, and sort of like, you know,
04:26get a bit more robust and get used to the physicality of the Championship a little bit more,
04:30then hopefully he'll be a decent... I mean, not signing because he's already Leeds' player,
04:33but it does feel like a new signing because, as you said, I don't think anybody expected him back.
04:38Daniel Farker was asked about the low knees who'd gone out a few times during the season. And
04:42there was never really much said about it in terms of like, you know, other than the fact
04:45they probably won't be coming back, you know, words to that effect. But here he is.
04:49You sort of wonder if he's coming back, if any of the others will. But, you know,
04:52we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. But yeah, I think I'd be cautiously optimistic,
04:57and especially so because we said in the last one of these shows, Daniel,
05:01that wingers would be something that's almost certainly going to be in short supply because
05:06on the assumption that we're thinking that Crisensio Somerville will go and quite likely
05:10Willy Nonto too. And that's what, at the end of the day, Lawrenson's a number 10 stroke winger,
05:14really, but he can play in those positions. So, I mean, put basically, it all seems to make sense,
05:20is the way I would see it. But I also totally understand the point that it left a sour taste
05:24when not just him, but the other low knees all departed, full on relegation. He said it's time
05:30for unfinished business. You know, he said he wants to come back and get the club promoted.
05:34So the proof will be in the pudding now, won't it? And it's a huge challenge to him.
05:37But yeah, I would, you know, as I say, those points down a division, how much they paid from
05:42the international experience he's got, it's just a physicality issue. But if you can sort that out
05:46and bulk up a bit, then hopefully, you know, it'll come back to good effects. It's big news though.
05:51It is. I think that a lot of fans who perhaps are sitting on the side of,
05:56you know, it is a bit of a sour taste. Their opinions will soon change if he comes in and
06:00hits the ground running at the start of the season in August, of course. Football is a
06:04fickle sport, let's be honest. Well, the other example is Willy Nonto. I mean, that's, you know,
06:11a very, very easy comparison. And it's totally different. Obviously, it's not just exactly the
06:15same case, but it's a similar sort of scenario. It's probably obviously, let's be honest,
06:20with Nonto, it was worse because, you know, he essentially refused to play for the club and
06:23handed in a transfer request. I mean, and who would have thought that would have been a way
06:27back there? And there was. And, you know, I don't know about forgive and forget, but it's kind of
06:31like, you know, time moves on, doesn't it? And at the end of the day, essentially all fans want,
06:36or obviously the loyalty is what they want, really. It's on the teams to win, you know,
06:40and if Aronson comes back and starts banging in goals and assists, then it will certainly
06:44make things a lot smoother. Yes, no, I fully agree. As I said, it's a fickle sport. And
06:49as with Nonto there, things can change very, very quickly. Obviously, the sour taste will be there
06:55and you can completely understand that. But as I said before, if he hits the ground running, well,
07:00I'm sure fans will appreciate it.
07:14Moving on then, we've got the retained list for Leeds United. That's come out,
07:19of course, as all clubs publish them around this time of the year. Now, firstly, we'll do this in
07:26two parts. We'll look first at Sam Byron, because, of course, all the players who you'd expect to be
07:31staying or at least have been retained at least. But Sam Byron, he's been offered a contract
07:37extension. So what's the latest on that one? Yeah, I mean, that just seemed like a no-brainer,
07:41really. I mean, he obviously joined the club on a one-year deal or rejoined the club, obviously,
07:44because he was there as a youngster. The big issue with Byron has obviously always been injury
07:48record, you know, and like, could he keep fit and this, that and the other. But I mean, at the day,
07:51I think it was 33 appearances in the championship. I mean, obviously not all of them were from the
07:55start, but two goals and assists and a lot more than that, really, just always looked very solid.
08:00And, you know, when he looks at the players that are out of contract this summer, as I said, he
08:03only joined on a one-year deal. He was the first one where you thought that should just be
08:07essentially a straightforward decision in terms of like, you know, staying at the club. And he's
08:11basically signed another one-year extension. So he's definitely here for next season. And yeah,
08:14like I said, I mean, I think basically that's just the right thing. And I think it's just a
08:18no-brainer. It's where he fits into it in terms of, will he be a week-in, week-out starter? I
08:24mean, that basically depends quite simply on what they've got at right-back and left-back
08:28going into the new season. I guess as it stands, obviously Conor Roberts has gone back to Burnley.
08:34So I guess as it stands, you're talking probably Archie Gray is probably first-choice right-back,
08:39really. Although obviously we all know that he's a naturally midfielder and Firpo's first-choice
08:44left-back is, I guess, how you would see it. Two players, I mean, the summer is very hard to
08:50predict that you don't know if they will both definitely be here. Obviously, Archie's the one
08:54that everybody will talk about being big bids in for him. So we'll wait and see what happens with
08:58that. It's not impossible that Firpo, you could see there being interested in potentially from
09:02Spain or somewhere. But I mean, if they both stay, then they're probably the first-choice
09:06full-backs. And Byron quite simply can play right-back or left-back. So he's just a good
09:11person to have around, isn't he? He's a good option at right-back. He's a good option at
09:14left-back. I think he's probably more than good enough to be first-choice in either of those
09:18positions if it comes to it. I don't think you'd want him, obviously, to be the only person there
09:22or to be, let's say, heavily reliant on him as a first-choice because of his injury record.
09:29That's just common sense. But like I say, pretty much every time he's played, he's always looked
09:33pretty solid, pretty reliable, gets forward, hard-working, 30 years old. I mean, you sometimes
09:41think he's younger than that, really, the way he plays. So yeah, I just think that one totally
09:45made sense. And straight away, he was straight onto social media saying he was relishing the
09:49challenge and delighted to be here for another year and to help get the club back to where they
09:53belong. Again, he's like a local lad, come through the academy and whatever. So he's someone who's
09:58among the more desperate players. They all will be, but him enormously so to get the
10:03club back into the Premier League. So yeah, just ticks all the right boxes, I think. And
10:08it's going to be one of those summers where you just don't know what's going to happen,
10:10left, right and centre. But that was quite an easy call and definitely the right call. So
10:14yeah, good news for Leeds, I think, to have him for another year.
10:18Very much so, yes. As you say, with Firpo and Archie Gray. Archie Gray, as we know,
10:24is going to probably move into midfield, as you rightly say, in the years to come of his career.
10:29Firpo, of course, is a natural full-back. So it is good to have someone of Byron's ilk about,
10:34because then you've got... If Byron wasn't to start, if you've got the other two, he's
10:39your natural cover.
10:40Yeah, 100%.
10:41But then if one of them were to leave, then you've got another someone who can come in and
10:45be a first-choice star. So it's a good move from Leeds.
10:59Moving on then, we've also now looked at other parts of the retained list and we'll look at
11:04the club captain, Liam Cooper, who's also in talks over a new deal. We'll come on to him
11:09a bit later in the Euros as well. But presumably, given he's the club captain and there's nothing
11:15else that's changed with that situation, you'd want him to stay, wouldn't you?
11:22Well, yeah, I think so. I mean, the point with this really is, I think it basically
11:26comes down to what else is out there and available to Liam Cooper. And also it comes down to him,
11:32because, I mean, obviously you've got things like wage bills to think about and things like that,
11:37but there's no doubt whatsoever that he's an extremely useful person to have around.
11:41Both in terms of, I mean, his leadership qualities have been exemplary. I mean, he's been,
11:45however long he's been here now, I mean, getting on to the best part of the decade,
11:48like he's been an exemplary captain and club captain. He just totally gets the club, you know,
11:53like a Leeds fan growing up and everything and all this, that and the other. He just gets it,
11:57you know, he just epitomises Leeds United, really, and he's been through all the promotion and stuff.
12:01And so, you know, his leadership skills are very much there. That said, obviously,
12:05there's cause, you know, well, you know, would he really want to be here as a cheerleader as such,
12:08you know? And I think with that, again, like all these things, it depends on what centre-back
12:14options Leeds start the season with. And to a degree, it depends what happens to Joe Roden,
12:19obviously, who's gone back on, you know, having been on loan from Tottenham. If Leeds get him
12:24back, whether it's on a permanent deal or maybe on another loan deal, as I'm sure they will try
12:28to do and hopefully will do, then obviously, you know, he's straight away into the team as one of
12:32the first-choice centre-backs. Then it's just a question of whether it's Pascal Stroik partnering
12:37him or whether you keep Ampadu as a centre-back, but then Ampadu is probably more of a midfielder,
12:41really, maybe alongside Archie Gray if he stays. So realistically, you can't, unless something
12:45changes in terms of like them not getting Roden back or not getting someone similar to Roden,
12:50because I'm sure if they don't get Roden, they'll try and get something similar,
12:52then Cooper's probably talking fourth-choice centre-back. And then obviously, you've got
12:57Charlie Creswell in the mix if he stays as well. So if he stays, it's not difficult to envisage him
13:02not getting much game time, as was the case last season. But then, you know, like if Leeds can work
13:08out a way to get him a deal and he's happy to do that and, you know, sort of like, as I say,
13:11offer his leadership role then with minutes here and there, then maybe that will suit as well.
13:16But like all these things, Daniel, I think it just does come down to what else is available,
13:20really. I mean, there was talk, obviously, about him. I think he had offers, didn't he, to go to
13:25sort of like out to the Middle East and whatever and stuff as part of like the big financial boom
13:29out there and, you know, wasn't interested and stayed put. So it's hard to know what will happen.
13:33And I think there probably definitely will be suitors for him. You know, you could see other
13:37Championship clubs, maybe a bit lower down the pecking order coming in for him. So we'll just
13:41have to wait and see. But I think, you know, like, I mean, you can't have too many useful people
13:47around, really, and he's definitely in that category. So I think as a club and as a team,
13:52if he stays, then great. And if not, then you sort of say, well, that's probably better for him
13:57because he'll be going somewhere else to get more football and Leeds would probably miss his
14:01leadership more than anything else. But hopefully we'd still have enough centre-back options. So it's
14:04a time we'll tell one with that. But I kind of felt like always moving up towards a retained
14:09list that he'd probably get offered some sort of new deal and that's not really a surprise.
14:11So we'll wait and see what happens with it. You'd imagine if he does stay, then Leeds,
14:17and if it were to go up this season, that might spell the end of him. Yeah, that would probably,
14:22yeah. Yeah, you'd imagine in the Premier League that there'd be no room for him.
14:26I think that's right. Yeah. I think a lot of people kind of thought, yeah, I think you're
14:29totally right there. I think a lot of people, because obviously, you know, they were literally
14:32going for promotion, you know, weeks before his contract was about to end. And I think that was
14:37a general consensus. If Leeds go up into the Premier League, then that will be farewell.
14:41But they haven't, have they? So, you know, and we're in the Championship. And I mean, whether
14:48Liam, like, you know, could at 32, whether you could sort of start a season with him as a first
14:53choice centre-back for a team chasing promotion, I mean, people would have the doubts about that.
14:58And I can understand that. But, you know, he has always been fairly reliable as well.
15:02But just a good squad player to have around, I would think. But I mean, yeah, I mean, you know,
15:06you need to have a really rock-solid defence and, you know, Roden, whether it's Roden and Stroik or
15:12Roden and Ampadu, that was, apart from, you know, the odd hiccup towards the end of the season,
15:15that was pretty solid, wasn't it? So we shall see what happens with that.
15:19Yes. And then another one on the retainers, the final one we'll mention, Jamie Shackleton.
15:25So, Lee, again, take it away. It's over to you.
15:29Yeah, well, he's in the same boat, really, I would say, as Liam Cooper, in the sense of, like,
15:33he'd just be someone who's very, very useful to have around. I mean, obviously, Liam's club
15:36captain and stuff, so that's a totally different ball game with him in terms of his leadership
15:39skills. But Shackleton's one of the, you can't have enough players that can play in different
15:43positions, really. And Shackleton, I mean, when he was sort of, like, at his best, you know,
15:49people have sort of seen people sort of refer to him as, like, a mini Stuart Dallas, if you like,
15:53you know, like someone who can sort of, like, play lots of different positions and stuff. And,
15:56I mean, you know, obviously, awful with Stuart Dallas, he's had to retire and stuff,
16:00but what a player he was to have around when Leeds had him, you know? I mean, he literally could play
16:04left-back, right-back, you know, centre midfield, but either wing. And Shackleton is kind of like
16:09a similar sort of idea to that. I mean, whenever you're writing about him, I never know what to
16:14call him anymore. You know, I don't know whether to call him a full-back, a right-back, a midfielder.
16:18I mean, just call him, you know, versatile Leeds player, basically, I think, utility man or
16:22whatever. But he can play all those positions. And probably similar to Cooper in the sense that
16:27you can see him playing all-in positions and you can see him for the in-all-in positions, but
16:32you'd maybe think it's a bit of a stretch for him to be first choice week in, week out.
16:36So, yeah, again, with him, I think it just depends on, you know, what else there is available out
16:40there and stuff. And again, if someone comes in for him and sort of says to him, you know,
16:43you're going to be week in, week out as a right-back, left-back, midfielder, whatever, you
16:46know, then obviously then that might change things. But, I mean, as things stand, yeah,
16:50Leeds have obviously, you know, offered him an extension to his contract, same as with Cooper.
16:55And I can see why, basically. Daniel Farke has always spoken very highly of him as a great
16:59person to have around, but, you know, he didn't have many minutes at all last season. So, yeah,
17:04again, it's one of these things, isn't it, where it's always hard to marry up because you've got,
17:07obviously, the club to think about and the team and you want lots of options. But, obviously,
17:11you know, the players who are on the bench, like Shackleton, would definitely be, you know,
17:16they also have to think about their own careers and get in minutes and stuff. And Shackleton's
17:21quite similar to Joe Gelhart, really, I think, as well. It'd be interesting to see what happens
17:24with him, you know, no doubt about the talent. I mean, Gelhart, when he burst onto the scene,
17:28was superb and the Bielsa, and it's just sort of stalled a little bit since. But these are the
17:33players that need football, really. So, it's hard to know what will happen with that one. But I don't
17:37think it's sort of, like, difficult to understand why both of those players have been offered
17:41contracts, extensions, because they're just both useful to have around. So, but again, where they
17:47fit into it just depends on what else happens this summer in terms of the options that there are
17:51when it comes to kicking the first ball of the season. Yeah, it sort of feels to me as if,
17:57as I said previously, a lot of this wouldn't perhaps be the conversation we'd be having right
18:02now if Leeds had gone up, but because they haven't, we're having this conversation. And these
18:08players who are, let's be honest, at this stage of their career, especially with Liam Cooper in
18:14mind, it's probably their level. And as I say, if Leeds were to go this season, they might move on.
18:18So, for now, at least, I think it's perhaps the right decision for Leeds, and you can understand
18:25why they're offering them new deals. Because again, around the squad and a team that's wanting to get
18:29promoted, they're good people to have around, aren't they? They're good personalities,
18:34their leadership, their talent, of course. And they can come into the team if called upon
18:41and do all right as well. But if they make the step up, it perhaps won't be for them.
18:47But moving on then to our final topic of the day, and that is a look at, well, apparently,
19:04there's a small football tournament going on in Germany in the next few weeks.
19:10This is where we tell everyone that it's coming home for definite, yeah?
19:13Not entirely sure what, that's their big words. Now, having said that though, having said that,
19:21if England win on Sunday, I will be, you know, screaming that from the rooftops.
19:30As I say, you know, the European Championships is always good fun. And in this occasion,
19:35whilst it's not club football, we're going to be taking a look at some of the Leeds players
19:38who are going to be representing their countries at the tournament. So, Lee,
19:43why don't you run through the list, if you have it with you?
19:46Yeah, well, it's a quick list, unfortunately, because it's only three. And obviously,
19:49there was a time, you know, when obviously we were in the Premier League, where we were talking
19:52about tournaments, and you were sort of getting towards double, potentially double figures and
19:55stuff, and certainly on international breaks. But, I mean, essentially, they've only got,
19:59like, well, one, like, player from last season, really, which is Liam Cooper, who we've just
20:03talked about. And I suppose with him and his future, I mean, you know, who knows how Scotland
20:09will do, you know? I mean, that could change things, couldn't it, if they have a blinding
20:12roll? We'll find out tomorrow night first, you know. Yeah, if they have a blinding roll,
20:16and he features heavily. So, obviously, we've got Liam Cooper with Scotland. And then the other two,
20:20I mean, to be honest, it almost changes things a little bit with Aronson coming back,
20:24because the other two players are players that exited the scene on loan relegation release
20:29clauses last season, in Max Werber with Austria, and Rasmus Christensen with Denmark. And
20:36two players who, you know, basically, you just thought, well, you know, they've gone out on loan
20:40and, you know, that's it, they won't play for Leeds again. And, you know, I can't sit here and
20:44tell you that that's not going to be the case, because it might well still be the case. But the
20:47fact that Aronson's come back, it does make you wonder, well, will that happen with anybody else?
20:51So, I mean, from that aspect, it certainly, I suppose, does add a bit of interest into
20:55watching them. So, Werber's with Austria, obviously, who could get England, I think,
20:59in the last 16 as one of the third-placed teams. So, we might end up seeing a battle against him.
21:04And then Christensen's obviously with Denmark, who are in England's group. So,
21:08we'll definitely see England against him. So, yeah, so they're the ones to watch, really.
21:13Obviously, it goes without saying that all three of them are, you know, representing squads,
21:17teams that are big prices and, you know, aren't particularly fancy to go deep in the tournament.
21:23But, I mean, we've seen with the Euros before that there can be surprises. So, that doesn't
21:28mean that's not necessarily going to be the case. And whatever happens, they'll all have the three
21:31group stage games. And as we know, like, you know, I think it's, is it the four
21:36best third-placed teams go through? So, yeah, so actually, it's probably harder to go out than it
21:44is to go in. Exactly, exactly. Words right out of my mouth. Yeah. So, you know, I wouldn't be
21:48surprised if, you know, as I say, well, any of them three, maybe all three got through to the
21:52last 16. So, we'll wait and see. Gives a nice bit of interest alongside, obviously, cheering
21:57England, hopefully, on to glory. We'll come to that in a minute, what we think on that. But also,
22:03it's, you know, not just the Euros, you've also got the Copa America. And obviously,
22:06the Brendan Aronson situation means, obviously, adds a bit of interest into that because
22:11he's obviously aware of the USA squad and the USA host of Copa America. And as the host nation,
22:16they're sort of, I don't know about fancied, but obviously, you know, you probably fancy a home
22:21nation's chances more when they host it, i.e. Germany, in this case, in the Euros. So, you know,
22:26they'd be optimistic in that. So, he's away with them. Argentina and Brazil are obviously the two
22:32big favourites for the Copa America. But yeah, so we've got basically the three Leeds players to
22:37follow at the Euros, plus Aronson at the Copa America, and they're all on the same time.
22:40And an interesting sort of side note to the Copa America is that the USA have been drawn in the
22:44same group as Uruguay, which is obviously, who are obviously managed by Marcelo Bielsa. So,
22:49that's going to be an interesting one. And to all extents and purposes, they're going great guns
22:54with the Bielsa football. So, that'll be an interesting watch as well when they play each
22:58other. So, yeah, there's definite interest, as I say, not as much as would, might have been,
23:03would have been the case had Leeds, you know, never got relegated. But there's no point thinking
23:06about what ifs. It's just good to see a lot of internationals and hopefully in years to come,
23:09there'll be many, many more. So, yeah, plenty of interest to keep us going there. Let's just hope
23:16someone like Werber or Christensen doesn't, you know, sort of come back and haunt England by
23:21producing something that, you know, damages the Three Lions attempts. But I don't know what you
23:26think. I mean, first and foremost of England, it's get out of the group. And I think it'd be,
23:28you know, I mean, they should win it. They should win the group, for starters.
23:33They should. I mean, obviously, if we look back to last Friday, it wasn't brilliant at
23:39Wembley against Iceland. In fact, it was dreadful to be frank. Although I temper that with a little
23:48bit of caution. Friendlies, you can't read a lot into them, can you?