Phil is back to answer reader questions on Régis Le Bris ahead of his imminent appointment at Sunderland
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00:00Hello and welcome to an emergency edition of On The Whistle. We are finally back with
00:15what we hope is almost an end to Sunderland's head coach search. Thanks so much for sending
00:21all your questions in. We are of course here to talk about Regis Le Brie. Now I'm hoping
00:26that that's answered one of the questions that I got the most from you, which was how
00:29you pronounce his name. I do have a GCSE in French, but that was a long, long time ago.
00:34As you can see from my hairline, it's a long time since I was doing GCSEs. But I think
00:39Regis Le Brie is a pretty good starting point. I will, when we finally meet the man, which
00:45we hopefully will fairly soon, I will give you an update on the pronunciation. But I
00:49think that's a decent starting point. Listen, I don't know exactly where the sort of appointment
00:56will be by the time you watch this video. If you're watching it later tonight on Friday
01:00or over the weekend, it may have been significant developments. But what we know at this stage
01:04is that Sunderland have been in talks now for a couple of weeks with Le Brie and with
01:09his current club, FC Lorient. He is now kind of expected to take the job, but the deal
01:15is not done. There will obviously be a fee to bring him to Sunderland. He's also got
01:21to sort of negotiate his exit, of course. There's also been some hurdles in terms of
01:25work permits and just the general documentation that you need to actually move to come and
01:29work to the UK post-Brexit. It seems as if all of that is very close to a resolution.
01:34Now, we do this video with the obvious caveat, as I always say, that nothing is done until
01:38it's done. You never know how things are going to play out. But we know with a fair degree
01:42of certainty that at this stage, Le Brie is the man that Sunderland want. And if everything
01:48goes smoothly, he'll be appointed as the next head coach ahead of the players returning
01:51for pre-season in a couple of weeks' time. Now, obviously, it's a huge sort of step into
01:57the unknown for Sunderland and a lot of you have sent in your questions. Some of them
02:01I can definitely answer and some of them I definitely can't, because like all of you,
02:04you know, Le Brie is not a name that I'm hugely familiar with. But hopefully I can give you
02:09some insight into how the appointment played out, why they've gone with Le Brie, why he
02:13wants the job, and also maybe a little bit of context on what can come next. So I'm just
02:18going to take a sip of my coffee and then we will get started.
02:24So the most obvious sort of question and the one that most of you sent in was, was basically
02:29who is he and what's his track record? Well, Le Brie retired pretty early from professional
02:34football to move into coaching. And he then spent a long time in youth development, basically
02:39in academies in France. So he worked for a long time at Stade Rennais. He also worked
02:44for a long time in Lorient's academy, initially as head of academy, and then as the reserves
02:49coach. He was then promoted to the top job at Lorient ahead of the 22-23 campaign. They
02:56just finished 16th, so they'd narrowly avoided relegation from the top division in France
03:02and they had an excellent season, they finished 10th. They haven't got one of the smallest
03:06budgets in the league, but that was then still seen as a big overachievement. It was a really
03:11successful campaign, I think, in everybody's eyes. At that point, Le Brie had a lot of
03:15interest. Nice, who were looking for a new manager, were really keen on appointing him.
03:20And I believe fairly lengthy talks were held. But ultimately, I think there was a disagreement
03:25or they couldn't come to an agreement on compensation. And therefore, he ended up staying at Lorient
03:30for another season. That season was, by all accounts, a little bit of a disaster for the
03:34club more generally. They ultimately were relegated. That wasn't expected. And I think
03:42that came as a big surprise in French football circles. And so obviously, Sunderland fans
03:46will be looking at it and saying, well, hang on, why is Sunderland going and appointing
03:50somebody who's just been relegated in their most recent job? Which I think is a totally
03:54fair question. And obviously, it'll be on Le Brie to prove his credentials, I guess.
03:59From Sunderland's perspective, their view very much is that they were mitigating circumstances
04:03for that relegation. Some key players were sold. And I think they feel that the strength
04:09of his work up until that point, up until this season and the season he had previously,
04:13means there's potentially a bit of an opportunity for them to recruit someone who last summer,
04:17for example, would have been outside of their reach, really, because of some of the calibres
04:24of club that were interested in him. That's the optimistic view, I guess. And that's certainly
04:28Sunderland's view. But that's hopefully a little bit of background on Le Brie, which
04:31gives you some insight. I think the big things to point out there are the obvious reasons
04:35why Sunderland are keen on him is his track record in youth development. So I'm just going
04:40to sort of following on from that, move into another question from Elliot. Thanks for sending
04:44this in, Elliot. And thanks to Keith, by the way, for that previous question. Elliot says,
04:47what makes him the right man for the job? Must be some positives, I'm sure. Yeah, for
04:51sure. Obviously, I've discussed some of the potential negatives. He only has two seasons
04:56as a head coach in senior football, never managed in the championship before. So there's
05:01two big sort of question marks before we move on. Then you take into factor the relegation
05:05from last season. The positives is his track record in youth development. You know, France
05:10has an outstanding record for developing young players. I don't think you work in top league
05:14academies for that amount of time, unless you're a good coach and you have a good record
05:17of developing players. You know, Matteo Guendouzi and Elon Meslier, the lead schoolkeeper, they
05:23both came through Lorient Academy. So I feel that's probably one of the things that's initially
05:28marked him out as, you know, one of the prime candidates for the role. The fact that he
05:33overachieved so much in his first season against his budget will also be something that attracted
05:37Sunderland to the job. So I feel like those are the kind of the key qualities that have
05:41brought him sort of into contention. Sunderland also feel that his playing style is going
05:46to be a good fit. As you can imagine, really difficult for me to make a judgment on that,
05:50having not seen his side. But that's certainly something that we'll keep a close eye on going
05:54forward. So I know that's quite a brief answer, Elliot, but hopefully that gives you a bit
05:58of insight into a couple of the things that I think, you know, sort of attracted him to
06:05Sunderland. Loads of you have asked, does he speak English? Which is a really interesting
06:10question. Obviously, I don't know that entirely at this point, but I'm told his English is
06:14really impressive for somebody who's never worked outside of France. So while I don't
06:19think it is, I think it's possible that Sunderland would have appointed someone who had sort
06:24of not great English if they felt his work, his coaching was strong enough, if they felt
06:28that he could, you know, the positives of appointing him outweighed the negatives. And
06:33of course, it's a very diverse dressing room now at Sunderland. But I'm told that his English
06:37is actually really good. And that was definitely something that sort of lifted him up the pecking
06:42order, if you like, the fact that they feel he's going to be able to communicate really
06:45well with the entirety of the dressing room. And hopefully, obviously, that means I do
06:50think it's important because it will help them communicate not just with us in the media,
06:53but also you support us as well. You know, that was something which Tony Mowbray was
06:58fantastic at, Alex Neil was fantastic at, Michael Beale struggled with, albeit in difficult
07:04circumstances. So I think that's really important. Just on that, you know, I think that ultimately,
07:09I do get the impression that there was a recognition that maybe they didn't take that into consideration,
07:15the importance of that communication and leadership enough with Michael Beale. So it's going to
07:18be really interesting to see how Le Bruy copes with the sort of quite, let's be honest,
07:23there's only six or seven clubs outside of, if even that many outside of the Premier League
07:29with the intensity that Sunderland has, you know, Leeds United is an obvious one, but
07:32there really is only a handful. And so that's going to be a big factor moving forward. And
07:36fingers crossed, you know, his English does turn out to be good and he can be a good communicator.
07:40But from what I hear, that's not something to be overly concerned about. It definitely
07:44seems to be something that hopefully we'll see he's got a really good command of.
07:50So one of the questions was about his sort of playing style and his qualities and formation
07:55as a head coach. From what I can gather, his formation seems to be quite fluid. He played
08:01with a back three a lot last season, which is kind of interesting because obviously although
08:05Mike Dodds did it at times, it's not something Sunderland did particularly regularly. But
08:11he seems like he's someone who's quite flexible. The previous season when they finished 10th,
08:15they had some really talented wingers who did an excellent job. Dan Goat Uttara moved
08:20to Bournemouth. He was actually one of the players I think was most missed for Lorient
08:23last season. So I think he'll be quite versatile in terms of formations. The one thing that
08:28definitely seems to come through from his time in France and his time in charge of Lorient
08:32is they were quite a counter-attacking team. More often than not, the opposition had more
08:36of the ball than they did. It seems to be that, yeah, he wants to attack quickly when
08:41Sunderland get the ball. That's going to be really interesting to see how that develops.
08:45Is that because he felt that was the best way to succeed at Lorient, especially in the
08:48relegation battle last year? Or is that indicative of how he actually wants to play in any circumstance?
08:53We know that Sunderland are a team who want to dominate the ball. But we also know that
08:57they want to play a really high-pressing style, a really intense style. And so maybe that
09:02kind of counter-attacking style is something that will actually blend quite well with Sunderland.
09:05But this is going to be a really interesting thing for me moving forward and something
09:09that I'm definitely going to be judging the club hierarchy against. Because, you know,
09:14one of the things, all this talk about the front foot playing style, the fearless style,
09:17being bold, creative with this young team. We had most of that under Tony Mobra. I know
09:22there are frustrations with players, you know, with the issues in the final third at times.
09:26But that was a great team to watch. And it was just totally bizarre to me that we went
09:30with De Beal, whose focus seemed initially to be on tightening up the defence. And the
09:35football got significantly worse to watch in my eyes. And that was really interesting
09:39to me, because I thought, well, what were you talking about in the interview process?
09:42How come there was such a misalignment between what you said you were going to produce and
09:46what actually happened? And so it'll be really interesting to me to see whether we see that
09:50alignment and whether we see Le Brie, you know, move to a more aggressive playing style.
09:55I don't think it's all necessarily about having the ball, having 60, 70% of the ball. I actually
10:00think Sunderland's a fan base where I don't think you necessarily have to play Tiki Taka.
10:04I think there are a lot of Sunderland fans who want to see the ball played forward quickly,
10:08who want a real intensity in their approach. So, per se, I don't think there's necessarily
10:11an issue with a counter-attacking style or a more direct style in possession. But it
10:16does have to be attacking and it does have to be quite bold and quite brave. To be honest,
10:19I think it'll have to be with the players that are already in the squad and who Sunderland
10:23are going to sign this summer anyway. So, yeah, hopefully that answers that question
10:28a little bit. But let's be frank, it's going to be a little bit. We're going to find that
10:31out as we go along. Excuse me while I have another drink and then I'm going to go through
10:37another few of your questions. So, this is a really good question from John Ridley. Thanks
10:43John for sending them in. Does this show we don't really have an ongoing plan for when
10:48managers leave? It's taken too long in my opinion and can't have been first choice.
10:52You will 100% get my backing though. I think it's a really good question, John. I think
10:56that obviously succession planning is something that Sunderland have talked about a lot and
11:00something that they're quite proud of and believe in. I do agree with you to an extent.
11:06I think that my main frustration with the... I think everybody had their own opinions on
11:11Tony Mowbray, whether it was the right time, whether the issues in the final third and
11:15with the strikers were his fault or the players' fault or the recruitment's fault. Wherever
11:19you stood on it, that timing of that departure made no sense because it was clear that Sunderland
11:25didn't have a successor lined up. Their favourite candidates at that time, they either couldn't
11:29get out of their jobs or they didn't want to leave their current jobs in mid-season.
11:34So that then begs the obvious question, why did you do it at that time? Especially when
11:37whatever you say about Mowbray and where the team was, they were still in the playoff hunt
11:41and their performance data, which Sunderland say they put a lot of stone in, is generally
11:46pretty good. So all of that together told me and the fact that they ended up with Beale
11:50that they'd made quite an impulsive or somebody at the club had made quite an impulsive decision
11:54to sack Mowbray rather than it being really well thought out, really well considered and
11:59evidence-based decision. And so when you then go through a process where it takes over
12:04120 days to get the successor for the next job, I think it's natural to wonder whether
12:09the succession plan is as strong as it should have been. I'll say a couple of things on
12:14this, just I think to put a little bit of context around it. The first thing is that
12:17my understanding is that actually the search for a new head coach didn't really begin until
12:22April, the start of April, because after Beale left, the club took a conscious decision to
12:26basically say, look, we got that wrong. That wasn't the right person for the job. Why was
12:31that? What did we get wrong? And what do we need to do next time? And from what I understand,
12:36actually, the criteria for appointing a head coach was tweaked a bit to take into some
12:40of the factors. One of those is something that I've already talked about, which is in
12:43terms of understanding that Sunderland's not just like any other football club. There's
12:47unique demands and you have to have someone who's capable of coping with that. Is Labrie
12:53the person to deal with that? That's going to be really interesting to see. I can't say
12:57that. I don't know enough about him. I haven't come across him. But that's one of the reasons
13:01why the search took so long. The other is, look, clearly everybody knows when Will Still
13:07left his previous job in May, Sunderland moved quickly to try and get him. I think that's
13:12obvious. My understanding is that Still and Labrie were on a five-man shortlist that was
13:16drawn up. When Still became available, they felt there was a chance there of getting a
13:21deal done for someone they really liked, that they liked last December, someone that
13:24they really rated, and they felt they could get it done and tied up. That didn't happen.
13:29It dragged on. They couldn't get a resolution and Still ultimately went to a job with a
13:34top league on club. He'll play in the Europa Conference League next season. I think that
13:38was, whatever anyone says, I think that was quite damaging from Sunderland, really, for
13:43two vacancies in a row to not get a top candidate. As I say, Sunderland's belief is that
13:51Labrie is a really good alternative that he's rated and that he was in there thinking from
13:56the start, you know, time will tell how strong a calibre he is. So I agree with you, John.
14:01I think that there are definitely question marks over the succession planning. And I
14:05think if this one doesn't work out, I think the calls for more widespread change are going
14:09to be pretty significant and that's going to be pretty understandable. But hopefully
14:13my answer's also shown there is a little bit more context to why this one has taken so
14:19long. One, it wasn't like any other search and they gave themselves a bit of time. And
14:24the other one is the will still factor, which I think didn't play out how anyone anticipated.
14:29And, you know, it clearly took quite a bit of time out of the search as well. So it's
14:33going to be really interesting. We essentially, we all had to almost accept and stomach, if
14:37you like, that dreadful end to the season on the basis that Sunderland's hope was that
14:42it would allow them to appoint a high calibre candidate in the summer that justified their
14:47faith in almost letting the season drift. Is Labrie that high calibre candidate? Is
14:52he going to make that awful end to the season worth it? Well, only time will tell. Hopefully
14:57he will be. So thanks for your question, John. Let me go on to another couple. So this is
15:03one that I've had in a sort of slightly couple of different ways, but I'll just kind of put
15:08them all together because it's along the same theme. One from B Turnbull, thanks for sending
15:13this in. Another's from Stevie Mac, basically saying that this isn't the kind of appointment
15:17that's going to get players to sign new contracts, to be excited about the future. Obviously,
15:21everybody knows that Chris Rake has a big decision to make. Dan Neal's also knocked
15:25back the initial offer of a contract extension for a few reasons. One of them being the uncertainty
15:31around the club. I'd say two things about that. One, I suspect that they're seeing this
15:34as exactly the same. I shouldn't speak for anybody really, but I would imagine that they're
15:38seeing it the same way as we are. Probably don't know a huge amount about Regis Lebrie.
15:44Sorry, I will get used to that eventually. They're probably looking at his record,
15:48seeing some good stuff, seeing some not so good stuff. The one thing I would say is that in every
15:53scenario, Sunderland are pretty well protected in that they don't have to accept bids for anyone
15:58this summer, unless it's a big one. Dan Neal has two years left on his deal. Chris Rake,
16:03we all know he's not signed up to a professional deal, but he's on a two-year scholarship and
16:08he's only one year through it. So Sunderland don't have to sell. If someone wants to come
16:11and get Chris Rake, they have to pay a fee. Now, obviously, if Chris Rake makes clear that he wants
16:15to leave, you know that he could leave on a free next summer. So there's a way in which you could
16:20be forced into business because you want to cash in if a big bid's on the table and the player's
16:24clearly wants to leave. But my point is this, the players are back for pre-season later this month.
16:28There will be an opportunity for Lebrie to impress them on the coaching ground, to speak to them,
16:33to convince any player they can be part of their plans and the club's moving in the right direction.
16:38So I agree with you. I think there's definitely a concern around what's happened over the last
16:42few months, the way the season's ended. There's a question, I think, over the club's ambition,
16:46how ambitious are they going to be in the transfer market this summer? Can they convince
16:50these players that this club is still on the path to the Premier League and they can achieve
16:54that at Sunderland? All those questions are totally valid. But the one thing I would say
16:58is that Sunderland, because of whatever you say about the club hierarchy,
17:02they've been pretty good at keeping players, proactively managing their contracts.
17:07So they're not under any pressure and hopefully Lebrie can convince these players that he can
17:11lead them to a really successful season. So hopefully I've answered that a little bit.
17:18Let's see, I think I've about got through all your questions, but let's see if there are any
17:27I am missing. Yeah, one said is, this is from At Spud, who says, are SAFC close to any sign-ins?
17:36Not sure on that one. I'd be surprised if there was anything imminent for the obvious reasons.
17:41The one thing I would say is that my understanding is
17:45that, as you know, Sunderland's structure operates and that a lot of the recruitment work
17:50goes on without the head coach, really. He only comes in at the final stages to give his input
17:55on sign-ins and see where he sees a player fitting in, etc. So I think a lot of work has
18:00been done. The other thing I would say is that, as I sort of mentioned at the start,
18:06Lebrie has been in talks for a while. It's my understanding that the deal was, in a lot of
18:12ways, all but done a few days before Kirill put out that statement saying that an appointment
18:17was hopefully imminent. The reason he put out that statement was because he was confident
18:20Sunderland were pretty close to getting Lebrie. What that means is that, both through the interview
18:25process and through the talks, he's been able to do a lot of planning. He's been able to look at
18:30the squad extensively. He's been able to feed his thoughts in, give his opinions on players,
18:35give his opinions on targets. So while I'm not aware of any imminent sign-ins, I am hopeful that
18:40maybe he'll be in a position where he can come in and hit the ground running because it does sound
18:45as if this has been in the works for a while. So I think that half answers your question. Thank
18:51you very much for sending it in. There's one here from Max who says,
18:56predict the backroom staff makeup once he's in. Well, listen, I can predict most of it. It's been
19:01pretty obvious throughout the process that Mike Dodds and Michael Proctor and Alessandro Barcherini
19:06will be staying in their roles. Sunderland believe that's really important to keep some continuity
19:12for the players, for the playing style, for the academy pathway. I will let you make your own
19:17mind upon whether it's a good thing or whether it's a bad thing. Some candidates or some people
19:21who have potentially been interested in the role clearly have been put off by that. Some candidates
19:26clearly are quite happy to work in that frame and think it's a pretty modern way of doing things.
19:31I do expect Labrie will bring in one member of staff. I think it was obvious that that should
19:35have happened with Michael Beale. He was way too isolated when he came in. I don't think that helped
19:40with many of his issues. I don't think it helped him settle at the club. It seems like Sunderland
19:44sort of accept that and it seems as if they're happy for any new candidate to bring one member
19:48of staff in. I don't see it going beyond that. It's one of those things that Labrie will hate.
19:52I just don't think it's going to change anytime soon. I think that is about it. Thanks very much
20:00for your questions. I've got one more here actually from Ian, which I should raise,
20:05which says, who is Ian? Why should we feel anything other than complete apathy about
20:09the potential appointment? Hopefully I've answered the first question as best I can in terms of who
20:13is he. As for your other point, listen, it's a huge step into the unknown. Nobody can sit here
20:18and tell you that Labrie is going to be brilliant. No one can sit here and tell you that he's going
20:22to be a complete failure. I just don't see how anyone could know how this is going to pan out.
20:28It's a huge step into the unknown. He's never managed in the championship. He's only got a
20:31couple of seasons as a senior head coach under his belt. If you want me to say why I think you
20:38should feel something other than apathy, well, let's try and focus on some positives. He's got
20:42a good record in youth development. Hopefully that will benefit the players. He has had one
20:47really successful season in the French top tier. Hopefully he can replicate that. And I'll just
20:51throw one more in there. This seems to me like the kind of appointment that Kiriluidreifus has
20:56seemed to want to make for quite a while. This is kind of the profile of appointment that we hoped,
21:01or sorry, I shouldn't say hope, that we expected him to make off the back of Tony Mowbray department.
21:06And so hopefully, what I hope is that what we might finally see now that that kind of
21:10appointment has been made, someone who Louis-Dreyfus clearly knows, clearly likes personally, clearly
21:15rates as a head coach personally. Hopefully now that that is now in place, we can see a little
21:19bit of alignment behind the scenes because there's clearly been friction with the previous three head
21:24coaches at various times. Hopefully that's a bit of a thing of the past now and hopefully someone
21:28can move forward. But I'm not going to sit here and tell anyone after the way last season ended
21:32and after 123 days that there shouldn't be any criticism or people shouldn't have concerns.
21:38It's a huge step into the unknown, but maybe that's one reason not to be apathetic. Maybe
21:42it's the start of an exciting new chapter and one thing can be sure it's not going to be dull
21:46is it? We all know something well enough to know that. Thanks so much for sending your questions
21:50in. It was really nice after so long away to see that you all still remembered what On The Whistle
21:54was and still had questions for me and still wanting to get involved. I really hope you've
21:58enjoyed this video, hopefully with pre-season nearing, with pre-season friendlies coming back,
22:03with more news coming back and we'll be able to do them a bit more regularly. I'll definitely do
22:07you one once we've actually met with Regis Labrie and once we've hopefully spoken to Christian
22:12Speakman about the appointment when it hopefully goes through and we can chat about a few more
22:17things then and speak a bit more about transfers and what have you. But yeah, just wanted to say
22:21thanks again so much for getting involved and if you've watched this all the way through,
22:24thank you so much because I know I can go on a little bit and everyone tells me off for
22:28writing too many words and speaking for too long in my answers. So thank you very much for
22:33watching, it's been great to be back doing On The Whistle and hopefully see you soon.