The Scotsman food and drink writer Rosalind Erskine hosts The Scotsman food and drink podcast "Scran" Live at the Royal Highland Show
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00:00Hello everyone and welcome to our first in-person Scran Live podcast. I'm
00:06the Scotsman food and drink editor and the host of the podcast, that's me in the
00:10picture, it's quite an old picture as you can see, and we are the Scotsman's
00:14multi-award-winning podcast that celebrates the Scottish food and drink
00:18industry. Since Scran started in 2019 we've mainly zoomed but more recently
00:24we've traveled around Scotland speaking to business owners, producers and all
00:28kinds of people that make up Scotland's vibrant food and drink industry. So thank
00:33you for coming along to this afternoon's podcast. I need to get the
00:37important bit out the way first. We have got goodie bags over here and they're
00:42filled with treats from the Scran Awards which happened on Monday and
00:46they're from some of the finalists which include Graham's Family Dairy, Kenmure
00:50Arms, Angus Alchemy, Amity, Seafood Larder and the Oak Tree Inn. You'll also
00:56get a copy of today's Scotsman, a chance to enter some wonderful competitions
01:00courtesy of the Scotsman and some of its partners, and we've got an exclusive
01:04subscription offer only available to attendees of the Royal Highland Show. And
01:08to cap it off as you can see it comes in a money can't buy Scotsman tote bag so
01:13please enjoy them after the session. And I promise I've not been paid to say that.
01:18So today we're joined by Tom Chisholm from Bucking Birch, Kim Cameron from
01:24Gin Bothy and Jam Bothy and Christy Clinton who is a food and drink business
01:29consultant but up until two months ago she was a buyer for Aldi. So we're going
01:34to talk today about getting Scottish produce into supermarkets and
01:40before we get into that I'm going to sound a bit like Cilla Black and ask
01:44everyone to tell me where their name and where they come from and a bit about their
01:48business. So Kim I'm going to start with you. You were on Scran not too
01:53long ago when you were preparing for the Oscars and as your gin was being
01:57included in the famous goodie bags. So we're going to come back to that shortly
02:01but would you please just introduce yourself and tell everyone who doesn't
02:04know a little bit about your business. Hi everyone my name is Kim Cameron I'm the
02:09owner and founder of all things Bothy. So we have Jam Bothy, Gin Bothy, Rum Bothy
02:14and we have Hip Flask Spirits and soon to have Whiskey Bothy too. So my brand
02:19started 10 years ago actually here at the Highland Show. We came down from
02:24Glen Islay armed with a van load of product and originally it was our Jam
02:29Bothy so I won a world championship making jam 10 years ago and I converted
02:34a wee Bothy on a farm that I rented and it was called the Jam Bothy, very
02:38novelly, and I was producing our jam following the seasonal calendar of
02:42Scotland. Now for any of you who make jam you'll know that you often have fruit
02:46juices left over from jam making and rather than waste it my mum in her
02:51wisdom suggested that I add it to gin and the long and short of the story is
02:55there was more people coming up the Glen for the gin than the jam so the Jam
02:59Bothy took a bit of a backseat and we started on our gin. We added Rum Bothy
03:04three years ago and we added Hip Flask Spirits two years ago which is our
03:09volume brand and the brand that we now work with supermarkets with. So yeah
03:14all things Bothy. We're based in the northeast in a little village called
03:17Glams. Glams Castle is in our backyard and we're in the village of Glams and we
03:22have a manufacturing site in Forfar. So true to the Angus Glen's and the Angus
03:27Strath we support up to seven farmers with fruit and produce throughout
03:33the season and I have a team of 19 amazing women and one guy who has
03:38supported our gin to jam and rum journey over the years.
03:43Thank you very much. So Tom on to you. You've also been on the podcast before and we had a
03:48wonderful day foraging with your business partner Rupert in East Lothian a
03:51couple of years ago. I think it was about autumn time. Sorry can you tell us
03:57about Buck & Birch and how you came to set up the company and the products
04:00you've been working on? Yeah sure. So yeah Buck & Birch we started
04:05actually in 2012 as a pop-up dining experience. Our mantra is indulge in the
04:11wild Scottish exotic. So our passion is for going out into the landscape. We've
04:16got beautiful diverse ingredients that grow out there that many of us have
04:20forgotten about and my business partner has spent a lifetime out foraging and
04:24picking things. He lives in the hedgerows so that's why he's not here today but
04:29yeah so we started off the dining experience. At the time we said to people
04:33to bring their own wine which was lovely and they were bringing beautiful wines
04:37from all over the world but we felt it wasn't sort of completing the picture of
04:42what was on the plate if you like. So we started making our own liqueurs a
04:46little bit similar like Kim there but we started making our own liqueurs and
04:50spirits and drinks to go alongside the food with the same sort of flavour
04:53profiles as we had on the plates. So in 2016 after two years of not listening to
05:00our guests at the dinners saying we'd love to buy some of this we thought okay
05:03we'll make some products. We made 200 bottles of our elderberry liqueur,
05:08launched that on the market, gifted some bottles to our friends in the
05:12hospitality trade who very surprisingly and happily said listen we'll stock that
05:16we'd love to have it in our restaurant or in our retail space and that began
05:20the journey to become a drinks company rather than a food company and since
05:25then we've developed a range. We've got five different sort of core drinks and
05:30yeah it's just about evolving that whole thing that connection to the landscape
05:34the wild natural ingredients that are there and it's really exciting to see
05:38that the market is responding to that in the same way that the idea of provenance,
05:42sustainability, natural premium ingredients is really capturing people's
05:47attention so we're seeing success from that which is lovely.
05:51And Elder was as seen on the BBC? As seen on the BBC as was Birch as well
05:57actually so yeah. That wasn't me though. Christy you've not been on the podcast before so an
06:04extra special welcome thank you for coming on. You've previously worked on
06:08the opposite end of the spectrum to the producers working as a buyer for Aldi
06:11and you now work as a consultant with food and drink businesses can you tell us
06:15a bit about that please? Sure, so hi everyone I'm Christy Clinton and I've
06:20just recently left Aldi to become self-employed, have a bit more time
06:25with my family and do what I'm passionate about which is working with
06:27Scottish food and drink manufacturers. So I was 11 years with Aldi in the
06:32Scottish buying department and as probably a lot of you know there's
06:36been a massive significant growth within Aldi and as part of that my role as a
06:41buyer hasn't just been getting products onto shelf and it's actually been
06:44coaching a lot of small Scottish suppliers to grow with Aldi to scale up
06:48to become more commercial and that's that was the aspect of the job I love
06:52the most. So what I'm doing now is working with a couple of different
06:56manufacturers and what I've kind of noticed over my time with Aldi is
07:01there's a lot of businesses that are fantastic family businesses or
07:04entrepreneurs that have a fantastic idea but as they grow they kind of they miss
07:09the business, the structure of their people and the commercial acumen and
07:13just not really understanding how a buyers mind works and what it takes to
07:17get their product into retail. So a couple of different projects I've done
07:21recently are negotiations training and also helping producers to understand
07:26what the buyer wants and then to tailor their offer and their value
07:31proposition as we call it in our world and looking at product ranges, making
07:35sure it's the right product range and making sure they're profitable and
07:38and ultimately really helping their businesses to become lean and efficient
07:43which is the Aldi ethos and that's what I've taken, how can you become more lean
07:47and efficient to become more profitable. Thank you so we could we'll talk a bit
07:53more about your your previous role shortly but can you give us some
07:57examples of smaller producers who found success with Aldi previously. Yeah
08:02there's I mean a raft of Scottish producers that have grown with Aldi
08:06and have had success in terms of Scottish Aldi listings but also go
08:10national as well, some of them even global as well. So some of the smaller
08:15suppliers have had great success at Grand Productions and it's a great
08:18example they're based in Govan and they're a bakery and they do Aldi's
08:22peppermint slices and caramel shortcake so the lovely Scottish sweet treats
08:28that are bad for us that we all love and so they've had great success with Aldi
08:31they're a really small team and a really small facility but they really proved
08:35themselves in terms of quality and being able to upscale as well and because
08:40despite that small team they've managed to upscale and they're now listed
08:45in about half of the English stores in Aldi so it's about 500 stores in UK
08:50wide. We've got in terms of spirits Eden Mill were one of the first
08:55Scottish distillers to work with Aldi just before the gin boom took off in
09:00sort of 2016-2017 they brought some products to Aldi which were really
09:05impressive and they ended up being listed in all Scottish stores and they
09:10sold really well then they had some fantastic branding great quality
09:13products and they were able to upscale so they ended up with a few national
09:16listings as well and we've had some great success stories in beer as well
09:20and so fierce beer Williams Brothers and all Scottish producers that have again
09:25it comes down to ultimately great quality product produced at a great cost
09:31and continually produced at the right quality level and that ability to
09:35upscale as well. Thank you and so Kim before we were sitting down here and we
09:42were talking about how this has been quite a long journey for you and because
09:47you're now listed in supermarkets and so you were working to get your products
09:51in the supermarket and you decided initially your premium brand gin bothy
09:57wasn't going to quite work so could you tell us a bit about that? Yeah it's taken
10:02a long time actually and for about eight years I said no to supermarket
10:06buyers sorry because everything I do is hand bottled hand batched and hand
10:11poured and in terms of price point and where we've been selling into for delis
10:16and small independents and farm shops that was our market and supermarkets
10:21always felt too big and too volume driven so it would have really put us
10:26under pressure and also I didn't think it was a right place for us to be and so
10:31I said no for years and then Covid happened and like everything it changed
10:35quite a few ways that we did things and I thought well rather than say no to
10:39supermarkets why don't I create a range that I can say yes to so we launched
10:44Hip Flask Spirits which is the same quality of product but the bottle's
10:49slightly cheaper we don't handwrite the labels so we can make it much quicker
10:53and Hip Flask Spirits we just launched into Morrisons two weeks ago so
10:59we're doing a lot of this if you see it in store please buy it and so we've got
11:03a six child store listing with Morrisons in Scotland and depending on how that
11:08goes it'll then take us into the 60 stores and possibly nationally so
11:12sometimes it's about well for me the thought process was if I can't do gin
11:17bothy what can I do and we've created a range now that rivals Whitley Neal
11:23and some of the English brands but we're able to do that in Scotland
11:26so hopefully that's been the right decision.
11:28And do you find, you're saying rival Whitley Neal, that people in Scotland are going to be more drawn to a Scottish product
11:36is that kind of where you're hoping to get to?
11:38Yeah I think there's room in the market for everybody but there is a shortage of volume producers of Spirit now
11:47and so we've got a premium range and now we've got a volume range and the
11:51customers are telling the stores and the data that if it is made in Scotland
11:55we'll support it and we'll be prepared to pay more for it.
11:58One of the things I found was a barrier to our entry was our price point because this is you know a
12:03£38 bottle of gin. Hip flask Spirits we can take to market for £29
12:08so all of a sudden you've got amazing quality it's a great taste award-winning
12:13product and it's £29 so buying something that's reasonably priced
12:17doesn't mean to say we should not have good quality Scottish fruit in it and I
12:23really wanted to challenge that a little bit and have it made in Scotland.
12:27And Tom what stage are you at with getting into supermarkets and how are you finding it?
12:32So we've done some sort of bespoke products for supermarkets in the past for Aldi actually
12:40which was great experience for us and we're negotiating and chatting to Morrison's
12:46and a few others as well at the moment. We're a bit behind where Kim is at the moment
12:51and we are still working out the price point thing is massive and the other part is
12:56positioning with on the shelves so we pride ourselves in doing things that are
13:00different and innovative in terms of the flavours that we use and the types of
13:03spirits and how you drink them but to convey that through a shelf when you're
13:08walking through the supermarket is actually quite a challenge so we want to
13:11make sure that we position them in the best possible way so from a consumer
13:15point you can easily understand what the product is. So one of the things are
13:19Birch botanical vodka, premium botanical vodka made from Birch sap, Scottish Birch sap.
13:24Originally we had it as a Birch botanical spirit which is great but people would
13:30always ask when we're at a show or event what does that mean? I'm there to tell
13:34them what it means, I can give them a taste, they understand it and they go
13:37oh lovely I'll take that buy it. If it's on a shelf you don't have that luxury of
13:41being able to tell it so that's why we've repositioned it as a vodka within
13:45that space and then we also have to look at and be more data and less
13:51emotionally attached to what our products are and say well what is the
13:54market doing in vodka? What is it doing in gin? What's it doing in liqueurs? Is
13:58there a space for this? There is some data that's saying the vodka is coming
14:02back for example so that means that that shelf space is going to be available and
14:06we're then fulfilling a need from the supermarket perspective as opposed to
14:10just saying it's a lovely product. There are thousands of lovely products if you
14:13go to the food hall just now it's full of delicious beautiful things and so you
14:18need to be fulfilling a position or a demand from a customer perspective from
14:22the buyers I think so that's that's where we're at at the moment. Is it hard
14:25to get to let go of that emotional side of it though when you're such a small
14:28business? Yeah I think it's always a little bit of being able to detach
14:34yourself we've actually just because of that taken on a commercial director to
14:38be more number driven, less emotive and less passionate about the actual
14:43ingredients and the things that go in there because you do there are
14:46discussions that you have to have within that and it's not like I say it's not
14:49just about going oh it's beautiful we use elderberries and rose hips and all
14:53these different things and at that level you need to be more focused on how is
14:58that going to be delivered to the customer and how do you deliver that
15:02message I think so yeah. And Christy, how do buyers go about getting products
15:08into store and do they need to meet a certain criteria because I have no idea
15:13on and if anyone's watched Aldi's next big thing on channel 4 I mean you might
15:18have more of an idea than me but I find it quite interesting so what's what are
15:22the secrets of the trade? The secrets are probably a bit boring to be
15:27honest to start with it's looking at data it's looking at market data so
15:30there's big companies out there Kantar, Nielsen, Tracker which is a Scottish
15:34company that help a lot of producers but and retailers and to look at what is
15:39trending in the market so what are new consumer trends coming through and which
15:43categories are declining and which are increasing or you know within spirits is
15:46gin driving the growth and within gin is it a pure spirit or is it a liqueur so
15:51buyers have to look at that because you know going back to the point you're
15:53saying about you know being really passionate about products as a buyer
15:56you're a food buyer because you love foods and you love drinks I was beer
16:00spirits and soft drinks and crisps so great categories to look after and but
16:05you can't you have to take aside what you think is great and what tastes great
16:08and you have to look at these trends and the data and what the customer wants so
16:12you're first and foremost looking at the data and then you would send out a
16:15tender to your suppliers and particularly with its own label if it's
16:19a brand you would go out to specific suppliers or come to trade shows like
16:23Royal Highland Show and different exhibitions ultimately though buyers are
16:27really busy because they're you know you guys have got your product your
16:30business and buyers are looking after a number of categories a number of
16:33suppliers so they really do rely on producers coming to them sending in the
16:38samples and and being aware of what is trending in the market and making sure
16:42that product and fits the buyers need or fits the retailers needs I think you've
16:46hit the nail on the head there Tom in terms of you know as a buyer I see a lot
16:50of people that are really passionate about their product and that's wonderful
16:53but I'm looking at that product going okay but what is this product what does
16:56it do for me what what does it do for the retailer how does it fit into our
17:00shelf how does it sell itself how's the packaging and so yeah there's numerous
17:05factors but it always does start with the data and you know innovation and new
17:09product development is still really important so even if it's a product that
17:12you can't exactly say oh this this fits into a gin liqueur and this is in growth
17:16if you've got a product that's maybe you know within a sort of trend you know
17:20protein or low no alcohol and you've got a great product that's that's got a
17:24clear USP it's different from your competitors then a buyer would
17:27definitely consider that because every retailer wants to have also something a
17:30bit different that consumers can come to for the excitement. Speaking of consumers
17:36is there anything that they might be surprised about getting products into
17:39supermarkets and similar question to Kim do you think there's more demand for
17:43more Scottish produce in Scotland? I think consumers would probably be
17:48surprised at the length of time it takes to list a product and the amount of
17:52times when when I've gone home and told my husband a fantastic product we've got
17:55that we're going to list and he'll say great can I go and buy that in store
17:58next month and I'll say to him no you're talking six months up to a year
18:02potentially and so I don't think consumers realise and sometimes
18:07producers as well that the length of time it takes from from sourcing the
18:10product getting the right supplier agreeing the terms and to then going
18:15through potentially and designing the product designing the product labels and
18:19obviously sustainability is really important so there's lots of checks
18:21across the supply chain that everybody's doing their bit to do things
18:25properly and the right things for the environment and then internally there's
18:28there's merchandise impartments you have you can't just put a product on shelf
18:32because you're going to mess everything up and the as you all know when you go
18:35into test school usually and they move things about and you your mind just
18:39explodes you don't know where the products are so you have to slot things
18:42into a range review which might only be once or twice a year and so that's
18:46often quite surprising for consumers and producers as well and in terms of the
18:51point on Scottish products that is that demand has been there for a long time
18:55it's still there and I think it will continue to grow and just on that point
18:59of sustainability I think particularly because people are now really thinking
19:03more about food miles and carbon footprint and trying to make the right
19:06choice and if you can buy local then absolutely people will and obviously
19:12there's if you look around this room you know dairy, beef, spirits these are things
19:16that people know are in Scotland and they're rife so we should we should be
19:20producing in Scotland's retailers should be selling Scottish and that's
19:23what a consumer should buy. There is a bit of a tipping point in terms of the
19:27price people will pay and if you've got a product that's Scottish and you know
19:31it's 40% more in price than a British or European equivalent but no difference in
19:36quality that will put people off and but people will pay a little bit more I
19:40would say possibly 10% more but it depends depends on what it is.
19:45So speaking of sustainability Tom can you talk us through your most recent kind of
19:50news that you've got about this?
19:52Yes so we're pretty excited about this but so our
19:55birch botanical vodka that was telling you earlier about flavoured entirely from
20:00Scottish birch trees but one of the things that's really important to us on
20:03a broader spectrum is our relationship with the landscape and where we get our
20:07ingredients and things from so we've always worked very closely with
20:10landowners, farmers, crofters, community woodland groups so we decided to go for
20:17there's an accreditation or an award called Grown in Britain and we're very
20:22proud to be the first food and drink business in Britain in the world
20:25actually to get that accreditation for this product which certifies that all of
20:30the woodland product in there so the birch sap, the botanicals and the birch
20:35syrup that we use is from sustainable forestry in the UK it's actually in
20:42Scotland so the sap comes from Gifford in East Lothian where we tap it and as
20:47part of that we've helped them to build their forest management plan which means
20:51that we are protecting and rejuvenating the Scottish forests that are around
20:56about us and our big picture wild idea is that we'd love to leave Scotland with
21:01more forests as a consequence of what we've built here at the same time
21:04building a sustainable business and because that's part of sustainability as
21:08well and so that yeah it's super exciting we literally got the award last
21:13week it's been a long process of getting there as lots of due diligence that goes
21:17into that and but again I think it's really important I think all of us as
21:21consumers now we're much more aware of those those things that where's our food
21:25from what are the ingredients are they natural are they synthetic we will we
21:30are willing to pay slightly more for that you're right you know there's a
21:34ceiling to what we're willing to pay particularly in the supermarket space
21:37but we we've sort of created a premium range of products that are still within
21:42that affordable bracket that we'd like to see in those those types of stores
21:47and then there's all also that part of it of finding the right partners to work
21:51with as well so it's not about discounting it it's not about these
21:54sort of things we have to protect the integrity of our brand at the same time
21:57so but yeah so talk a little bit about price there and Christy is there
22:03anything that the markets particularly keen on them on at the moment and or the
22:06opposite things that aren't really working I the growing trend for health
22:11and wellness that's that's definitely there you hear about it and but you know
22:15from the supermarket supermarket buyer perspective that's that's absolutely
22:19true people are looking for healthier products but functional as well so
22:23protein you see a lot of Graham's products there all the protein yogurts
22:27and protein drinks even seen protein coffee now and anything that's that's
22:32still tasty and good quality but serves some kind of bodily benefit especially
22:37we can show it about on Instagram and those trends are definitely here to stay
22:40and increasing aim and on in that arena as well low and no alcohol I am
22:45particularly beer I'm obviously it's quite a saturated market now with the
22:49big brands but aim so a lot of craft guys have started doing low and
22:52non-alcoholic and it's a difficult market to enter but some of the Scottish
22:57craft breweries have made some fantastic products and again because they're good
23:00quality and tastes like the real deal and they've performed really well and I
23:05think low and no spirits you get I don't know if you guys have produced any low
23:08no spirits but I think they're really difficult there's a lot on the market
23:12and a lot of it is not very good aim and I think as a consumer if you want to
23:17have a non-alcoholic spirit you want to have it and imagine you're drinking the
23:21real thing and I think trying to get the taste and flavor profile of the real
23:24deal is as tough so yeah that that's probably a challenging one and but yeah
23:28non-alcoholic beer and anything high fiber high protein is doing really well
23:32I'm still waiting for a good non-alcoholic wine so if anyone knows of
23:36anyone let me know and so Kim we can't go without asking you how your Oscars
23:42goodie bag went you want to just sort of recap for anyone that doesn't know what
23:46happened and how it happened and well sometimes these opportunities just come
23:50up and and you just say yes don't you and you figure out how you're going to
23:53do it well I was in the right place at the right time with a recommendation and
23:57there was a spirit brand a tequila brand that had let down the goodie bag in
24:04America two years ago so for any of you that don't know any Oscar nominee and
24:09there's normally 28 or 30 of them that get this goodie bag and it's worth like
24:13half a million pounds so this tequila brand had let them down and they phoned
24:18up somebody that I worked with in Scotland and said you know of a small
24:22batch company that would do us a gin for the Oscars and she recommended me and I
24:28said yes of course so this year we were the spirit choice and there's 28
24:33bottles of this gin and which I like to think is from the mountains of Scotland
24:37heather milk thistle Scots pine and rosemary and 28 bottles of this in one
24:42batch went over to the Oscar nominees so yeah if it's good enough for the
24:48celebrities it's good enough for us it must be really exciting we talked about
24:53this on the podcast to think that someone like Bradley Cooper is going to
24:56be drinking your gin yeah definitely Killian Murphy any of them
25:01there'd be more than happy but they had a little bit of Scotland back in
25:04California and you know if that helps other producers and to kind of highlight
25:09the quality of Scottish product and into the bags for future years then let's
25:13hope that continues so we are obviously at the Royal Highland Show and we can't
25:20really not talk about your experiences here and so what do you enjoy most about
25:25it Kim and what does it do for your business well as I said earlier we
25:29launched here ten years ago and so if it wasn't for you and it wasn't for the
25:33support that we had ten years ago I still probably wouldn't have been here
25:37and I think that as a community of Scotland food and drink and buyers
25:42growers farm shop owners delis everyone that comes to the show is a catalyst for
25:48small independent brands so anybody that you see that's a producer or that are in
25:53the food halls here and you know we're local people producing local food but
25:58this is the showcase this is our big stage for some of our customers it's the
26:02only time we see them and for some of you it might be the one day of the year
26:05you get off silage and you get to come to the show and you know we're really
26:10thankful for the support we've had over the years and especially with the jam
26:14and the gin and now the rum and you know it's not only the people at the show
26:19that you meet today or over the weekend it's the support you get at all the
26:23country shows and the farmers markets and the farm shops and also at
26:28Christmas when you're looking to gift you have a choice between buying small
26:32batch and support and rural economies and that's what the show does it
26:35highlights the amazing and produce that we have but also the people that you can
26:41support in your rural communities and that's really important to us and Tom
26:45what about you same thing very similar story we turned up here and I think it
26:51was 2018 with our elder completely wet behind the ears no idea what we're doing
26:55I ran in late with a trolley nearly ran Michael Gove over which was exciting and
27:00then piled in behind our stand and Rupert and I stood there handing out
27:04samples to everyone and it was a real eye-opener just to see the volume of
27:07people first of all but getting that reaction from the audience there was so
27:11reassuring you know you're turning up without really knowing what you're doing
27:14and people are going this is lovely up I'll buy but you'll buy a bottle right
27:17okay fair enough right here we go and you know since then we've been here
27:21pretty much every year developing new products is a great place to test new
27:26new flavors we've also bought but I've met buyers here as well so you know
27:30Edinburgh Castle Aldi and other ones this morning as well so it's it's a
27:35great opportunity to showcase the brand and get direct feedback from a large
27:39volume of consumers which is invaluable to be able to understand where to pitch
27:43your products how to sell them and yeah it's been fantastic and like you say the
27:48support is fantastic we're here as part of East Lothian food and drink which is
27:52a fantastic sort of East Lothian community driven thing where we're all
27:56members we get a slightly subsidized stand which for small producers when
28:01you've not got a lot of revenue makes a big difference so it's yeah we're it's
28:06been a huge success for us and we're delighted to come to the Royal Hamilton
28:09show every year ask me that on Sunday I'll say something different but yeah
28:13and Christy what about you? It's a fantastic opportunity to meet food and
28:18drink producers and build relationships just in a nice informal setting while
28:23getting to try products and so yeah it's a great opportunity for me to catch
28:28up with existing clients and then develop new partnerships and great
28:32opportunity to sample lots of products I'm not gonna lie I think that's my
28:35favorite part of the show. I still need to do that but I did walk past the big
28:40tractors yesterday and I was yeah very impressed I still want to see the goats
28:44as well so. Does anybody in the audience have any questions at all for the
28:49guests? You'll be getting my mic if so. We good? Well thank you very much
28:59guys it was nice to chat in person and thank you all for coming and remember we
29:04get a goodie bag and when you leave and thank you very much. Thank you, and come and see us in the food hall, thank you.