Rosalind's guest on this episode needs little introduction these days as he has become one of Scotland's best known food ambassadors. Coinneach MacLeod aka The Hebridean Baker joins Scran once again to fill Rosalind in on his adventures - sharing his love of hebridean baking, cookery and culture all around the world. He's just launched a new book, The Scottish Cook Book and Rosalind delves into what he's included in this one and hears all about his recent trip to America which included some amazing 'pinch me' moments for Coinneach.
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00:00But stories and songs and all those things, that really kind of shines through. But I'm never
00:07trying to make anybody into a Michelin star chef. That's not my job at all. There are other people
00:13who do that miles better than I do. But what I would love to make people feel is like they are
00:21to make them passionate home bakers, but with a Scottish twist. So that's my absolute goal.
00:28And I think things like that are very approachable, aren't they? There's
00:32chef's cookbooks, which they're trying to make things easier or simpler. You don't have a lot
00:35of time. But coming at it from a home baker or a home cook, you're already on the same level as
00:42people who are also into cooking and baking. I mean, obviously, you're
00:45better. But you're more approachable than, like you say, Michelin star chef in terms of
00:51you say it's your stories and it's your recipes. And straightaway, it's like everyone has that
00:55in their life. I mean, what I'm trying to do with the chapters, for example,
01:00chapter two is called I'll bring cake. So in other words, when you know you're going to your aunties
01:06or your sisters for a week, catch up the next day and you say, well, I'll bring the cake.
01:11That's really what chapter two is about. And then I was so lucky. I do a lot of judging of
01:20competitions these days, not Bake Off yet, but plenty of competitions everywhere from
01:27the local agricultural show on the Isle of Lewis to the World Bread Awards in Las Vegas. It's quite
01:34an eclectic selection of judging that I've done. And one thing I absolutely love is when it's a
01:42very simple thing like a cookie or a biscuit. And so you're really judging that rather than a big
01:49cake or decoration. And so I put a chapter called the Hebridean Baker's Biscuit Tin.
01:57And so it's really, again, little kind of wee sweet treats that you can make
02:02kind of, you know, with your family or yourself. But always indulgent. There is always a kind of
02:11like wee twist to it. So actually yesterday I was making, I've got one called a Bedtime Biscuit.
02:20Because I always like to finish the night in a wee sweet treat. And it's like a kind of
02:23oat cookie, but I've got Horlicks or Ovaltine, but I put Horlicks in it. It's so good. It's so good.
02:31That sounds amazing. I'm a fan of any biscuit, but that sounds very good.
02:36And also the Bake Off would be great. I mean, I also feel like we should have the Great Scottish
02:41Bake Off because there's hardly ever any Scottish contestants in it. So, you know.
02:45I'm on it. Can we shout that as loud as possible, please? Yes. The Great Scottish Bake Off.
02:52Hosted by myself and yourself. The dream.
02:54I mean, that would be amazing. So just to go back, you mentioned the swimmer that's in your book.
03:01How do you choose the guests that kind of feature in your books? Is that something
03:04that's planned well in advance? Or do people come to you? Do you go to them?
03:08Oh my goodness, I always go to them. But it's amazing that everybody says yes. I'm always
03:13shocked, you know, when people, people actually say yes, I'd love to be in the book. So we have
03:18the amazing Anne McAlpine, who is the BBC Scotland news presenter and does Landward.
03:26But she's from my, from the same island. She's from Lewis as well. So I asked her,
03:32I asked Callum and then the amazing author and poet Donna Ashworth. She,
03:39every time, particularly with Donna, I remember arriving at her house and she made her banana
03:46bread cookies. And it probably took us about an hour and a half to get to the photography because
03:52we were gossiping and talking. So we just wanted to talk to each other so much because
03:57with a lot of these people, maybe we haven't met, but we've chatted on social media, or we have some
04:04media, or we have some kind of kindred connection between each other. And it's, it's so lovely when
04:11that happens when you, you can connect, connect through food and connect, you know, through kind
04:17of making these cookbooks. So it's, it's fantastic. One of the things, I mean, during the pandemic and
04:23lockdown things, that's kind of how a lot of people went into baking and sort of relearned
04:27things that they didn't, you know, kind of forgotten in the busyness of life. And then
04:31when coming back together and stuff and being able to share like things like that, it's just,
04:34yeah, it was really nice. I think it was a good, a good period for that type of thing anyway. I know
04:39I did it myself. But you mentioned you've used family, family recipes and talking to friends,
04:45and there's a lot of sort of tradition running through your recipes as well with a little bit
04:49of a modern twist. So how, how do you, you know, you say you've got more in the bank,
04:53are you always like researching things, talking to people? You know, you've, you've said yourself,
04:58you know, how many more Scottish recipes are there, but I mean, there'll be a lot more than
05:01people expect. You know, it's not something that a lot of people are doing on a day-to-day basis
05:05again, anymore, unfortunately. Yeah, no, look, definitely. I mean,
05:11one of my favourite days, and you can see, see behind me, like actually the top two rows are just
05:16all cookbooks of this bookshop. Like I literally have probably like 200 cookbooks,
05:21and particularly old cookbooks, old Scottish cookbooks. And it's amazing where you can find
05:27research. I remember that classic steamed pudding, it's called a Spotted Dick. And I always wondered
05:34why it was called a Spotted Dick. And then I realised that it wasn't called a Spotted Dick
05:39in Scotland, that was the English version of it. So in Old English, a pudding was a puddick.
05:46But in Old Scots, a pudding was a puddock. So a Spotted Dick was called a Spotted Dog in Scotland.
05:54So hence, then I've put in my cookbook, a rum and raisin Spotted Dog. And I sort of have this
06:00dream or vision that people are making my recipes and when they go to serve them at the table,
06:06you know, they're telling the story that goes along with them. And I remember for my chapter on,
06:15I've got a chapter called Soups and Pies. And I was chatting to friends about what, because I don't
06:22like to repeat too much. So I've already put in cull and skink and cock-a-leekie and Scotch broth
06:27and all those things. And so I put in Feather Fowley and a Neeps and Tatties soup, but I was
06:33looking for another one. And a friend of mine was like, you should put that really lovely soup from
06:39Mull. And I was like, soup from Mull? And she was like, you must know it, it's delicious. And it's
06:48got like a kind of curry flavour to it. And I was like, I have no idea what you're talking about.
06:55And then she looked it up and she was like, yeah, Mull-a-Cottonie, which obviously is definitely
07:02not from Mull. So in my book, I've called it Isle of Mull-a-Cottonie soup. And it is a delicious soup
07:10with no connection to Mull. But now, every time I think of Mull, I will definitely be thinking of
07:15Isle of Mull-a-Cottonie soup.
07:19And it's nice that people are also, like you say, getting a slight education as well as learning
07:23something to make something new or something, a twist on something new. I mean, is that,
07:28that was, I mean, we've spoken before about, you know, you learning to bake from quite a
07:32young age and getting inspiration from your family. But was that always kind of the point of you
07:37sitting down to write these recipes that you wanted to continue on this sort of
07:41history and tradition and that continues on through all your different books?
07:45Yeah, I mean, I think, I mean, absolutely at its heart is I use food as a conduit to talking about
07:51the culture, the storylines, the identity of the Hebrides and the language of Gaelic. You know,
07:58that's definitely what I use the books for. And the recipes definitely are to create a kind of
08:06feeling of comfort. You know, we're kind of building into the kind of, well, it's certainly
08:12in lieu, it's already winter, but, you know, I pretend it's autumn, but we very quickly bypass
08:17autumn in the Hebrides, it always seems. So it's very much that kind of comforting feeling,
08:25these recipes and be it the kind of the pies or again, even these, you said, but these kind of
08:32wee twists I do. And most people in Scotland will have had coca leaky soup or think they might have
08:39had it. You've got the three classic ingredients of chicken, leeks, and prunes. And I was trying
08:46to think how I would use that in another recipe. And I love using risotto or orzo pasta as a kind
08:55of midweek meal. And I thought to myself, you know what, often I'll use leeks and chicken
08:59in like an orzo dish. I wonder if I put prunes through it, would it work?
09:05Unbelievable. So I've got a coca leaky orzo in the book. Oh my goodness, just that kind of slight
09:13sweetness with the prunes and leeks along with the chicken and everything. It's delicious.
09:21That sounds amazing. So is this sort of the sort of cozy kind of time of year? Is that your
09:29sort of favourite time to bake or is it sort of any time?
09:33Yeah, no, I love baking at this point because look, I have the sweetest tooth in the world,
09:39like non-negotiable. I have the sweetest tooth in the world. And so I have to have dessert
09:47every night. But, you know, not always an indulgent dessert, but I have dessert every night. So
09:56knowing that I'm going to go into the season where you don't mind getting a big jumper on,
10:01getting the fire on and having a wee treat every evening, that to me is perfect.
10:08I mean, how do you stay in good shape? Because I would be about the size of a house if I was
10:12having a dessert every night.
10:14Well, funnily enough, I think there's two things. Firstly, Peter, my partner, he proudly calls
10:19himself the official Hebridean baker, cake taster. He has tried on many occasions, every
10:27recipe. Because normally when you do a cookbook, to get to 75, you probably start with about maybe
10:32140, 150 ideas. And then you practice them, you whittle them down, you start to put them into
10:40chapters. Sometimes they fit, sometimes they don't. So Peter has tried everything. So he always says
10:48that nobody would buy my books if he was skinny. But at the same time, because we spend most of our
10:59time off grid in our wee cabin, the only way to get there is by canoe. So first of all, there's a
11:06lot of exercise, even getting home at night to the cabin. But then when you are there, you know,
11:13you can't just be on the sofa going, Oh, do you know what, I would love a double decker. I'll
11:18just run to the shop. There's no running to the shop in the evenings, you know, it's like an hour
11:23to get to the shop. So you just have to make do with, you know, baking a cake or, or just, you
11:29know, whatever's in the cupboard.
11:31Do you have a favourite recipe or sort of family story, either from this cookbook or throughout
11:37the years that you sort of always come back to?
11:39Yeah, I mean, this whole thing kind of began because of a clouty dumpling, or a duff, as we
11:47call it in Gaelic. And my aunt Bella, who is now 96, still my absolute hero, still bakes pretty
11:54much every day, and her amazing clouty dumpling. And that's why I started creating these videos
12:03that I do in my Instagram, to kind of share the stories and recipes and traditions that we have.
12:11And just total coincidence, I think one of my, I don't know, must be one of my first ever
12:18followers, and like maybe in my first 400 followers happened to be the head columnist
12:26of Elle magazine in America. She just happened to find my social media and really liked it and
12:33wrote her whole column one month about my voice, my accent. And I would say, even in Scotland,
12:42I think a Hebrew accent isn't that well known, you know, until folk like Anne McAlpine and
12:48a few others started appearing on the news. I don't think people would have heard our accent
12:53that often. And if they had, maybe we would have sounded a wee bit, I don't know, country bumpkin
12:59to folk, or maybe even not sounding very Scottish to some folk. So she talked in her column
13:08about my accent. I think my two favourite lines, she said,
13:11he sounds like how I imagine a piece of shortbread would talk if it came to life.
13:19And then she said, come for us cakes, stay for the way he says cream your butter.
13:26To be fair. Which I thought was amazing. And I'm just back from my US tour. I was there for,
13:35I just had my seventh US tour, my third this year. And I was in San Francisco and there's
13:41a beautiful wee cookbook, a bookshop that only sells cookbooks in San Francisco called
13:47Omnivore Books on Food. And I had an event there and the place was packed,
13:54literally packed to the rafters. And I walked in and there were three ladies in the front row
13:58with t-shirts with cream your butter written on their t-shirts. I thought I've made it. I've made
14:05it. So it is kind of amazing that just from something as simple as somebody finding you
14:12on social media or trying to share your passion for a Hebridean island has resonated so, so
14:23strongly across the world. It's amazing how the culture of Scotland, the stories and the food,
14:30you know, when I travel in America going to say Highland Games, you know, I was in New Hampshire
14:35Highland Games just a couple of weekends ago and there were 27,000 people a day at the Highland
14:41Games. And that's not in any way one of the biggest. I was at Grandfather Mountain Highland
14:46Games in July, which has over 50,000 people a day. And they're all there to celebrate Scotland.
14:53Isn't that amazing that there's people around the world that actually will celebrate our country?
15:00Yeah, fantastic. Yeah, probably more than we do. So yeah, it's amazing.
15:07It was funny you say that about accents because the woman that owns Island Larder on Shetland,
15:13we spoke to her earlier this year, went up front with Hilly A, she's gone viral because of her
15:16accent. And again, even being from Scotland, you listen and you think one that sounds amazing,
15:21but two, you're not quite sure where to place her. So yes, it's funny that something like that,
15:26that's not, that's only for like a sort of quite small group of people, but it goes worldwide
15:31because everyone's really interested in the accent. You're totally right. And I do remember
15:37one of my more eclectic jobs before I started as the Hebridean baker, I actually used to present
15:46the Scottish Cup draw on Sky Sports. So I was literally, I was the voice of the balls
15:54on the Scottish Cup draw. So I would be going, welcome to the fourth round of the William Hill
16:00Scottish Cup. But I remember there was one fourth round draw. And there is a certain
16:07thing that is quite hard for Hebridean folk to say, anything with R S. It's quite hard. We sound
16:15like we're Sean Connery when we're doing it. And so I remember in that draw, there was Rangers,
16:23Cove Rangers, Brora Rangers, Berwick Rangers. And similarly, they got so many complaints
16:32that this guy who they thought wasn't Scottish was doing the Scottish Cup draw, you know.
16:40So I think, I mean, I'm delighted now that folk will have heard Ireland accents more,
16:47be it, as I said, from Anne, who's amazing at reading the news, or maybe they've gone
16:52out to my social media, or I should say one of the Shetland voices as well. And realising that,
16:59you know, culturally, Scotland is amazingly eclectic.
17:04Yeah, definitely. I mean, yeah, just so many different accents. So you've mentioned sort of
17:11modder putting little twists on more traditional recipes like your cockle quay orzo. Obviously,
17:18there's a lot of positives of that. I imagine it's very creative having to do that. Is there
17:22anyone that ever comes up to you and being like, what have you done to this very traditional thing?
17:28Well, that's actually going back to the clued dumpling. So I kind of feel obliged because it's
17:33such a, for us, it is our, it's the Hebrides' most iconic bake. Like if you get, if you go
17:39to somebody's house and somebody gives you a slice of clued dumpling, then they like you a lot. You
17:46know what I mean? That's a big deal. But so in every book, I have done a different twist on
17:53a clued dumpling. And in my third book, I've never done, I'd never done a banana loaf because I just
18:01thought, well, I think everybody knows how to make a banana loaf. But I do love banana loaf.
18:07And I thought, what if I did a cross between a banana loaf and a clued dumpling? And so
18:16called a banana duff or buff, as we call it. I have to, it took a little bit of science to get
18:23it right. Oh my goodness. It's unbelievable. Like it is unbelievable. But I went and did,
18:31I did a book festival in Stornoway. And I had a lot of older ladies, quite cynical about my banana
18:40clued dumpling. But I remember then going to the supermarket, I think it was about a month later,
18:46and managed unbelievably to see two people who had been at the book event had made the banana
18:52clued dumpling. Both came up to me that day going, I take it all back. I will never make it any other
18:58way. It is spectacular. So even though they were a little bit worried about the banana clued dumpling,
19:08I managed to win them round, which I was very happy with.
19:13Which, yeah, I mean, because things like this, you mean, I wouldn't ever, I've tried to make
19:16clued dumpling once and it just didn't work. And then it kind of puts you off. So like these
19:20modernisations will bring more people into something that is quite traditional. So you
19:24mentioned Hogmanay there, you do have Christmas recipes in all your books. Can you tell us a
19:28little bit about Christmas on Lewis, Christmas at home for you, any sort of traditions, things that
19:32you definitely cook or bake every year? There is amazing traditions in the build up to
19:39Christmas. And it sort of starts for us, look, it's pretty wild and dark being in the
19:47Outer Hebrides, you know, at wintertime, you know, we have tough storms, you know, often maybe
19:52only three to four hours of daylight. So we have to consider that and try and celebrate things,
19:58even though it's maybe not the nicest time of year, you know, weather-wise. So we have a celebration
20:04that starts on the 21st of December, which is winter solstice called Eithne Seac Suibhran,
20:10the Night of Seven Suppers, because they say that it's dark for so long, you could eat dinner seven
20:16times before the sun rises again. So really, for us, that's the kind of start of 10 days of
20:24celebrations. And of course, for us, well, we call it Eichachall in Gaelic, but Hogmanay is our
20:32biggest night of the year. That is our biggest celebration with, of course, a ceilidh dance, but
20:40you know, a gathering of people and stories and songs and food. So even though, as I said,
20:47it's a challenging time of year, weather-wise, and with all the darkness, we definitely try and
20:55celebrate it. There was, I've got a great friend in Islay, Angus, and he was telling me about,
21:05you know, your mum and dad would always kind of try and scare you that, you know,
21:09if you're, if you're bad, you won't get presents. Islay, the island of Angus, they just took it to
21:14the next level. They had a monster called Craomh Duithne Nolach, the Dark Crooked Man of Christmas.
21:22And if you ever had a storm and you would hear, I don't know, something outside or something on
21:27the roof, his mum and dad would say, oh, that's Craomh Duithne Nolach, he's coming, and he would
21:33come down your chimney to steal your presents. Now, if I thought an old crooked man was going
21:38to climb down my chimney to steal my presents, I would be the best behaved boy on the island.
21:47So even with all the nice things, there's always a little bit of mystery, you know,
21:51to keep you, to keep you well behaved. Yeah, God, that is, that's terrifying.
21:58And it was always, because it was so stormy, there'd always be some noises outside.
22:02So the fact that, you know, your parents could, you know, make, make it as if it was something
22:06scary, that kept you, that kept you under control.
22:10Yeah, no, that would, that definitely would have worked on me as well. And in terms of
22:16food and drink as well, or sorry, not drink, sorry, food, what's your sort of go-to for Christmas?
22:22Yeah, I mean, look, I'm absolutely with the classics for the first two courses, but I do
22:30definitely do a lot of indulgence for my Christmas Day desserts. I always have three
22:35non-negotiable, there's always three Christmas Day desserts. And to be honest with you, I sort of,
22:40the first, I know it's not for everybody, but I love Christmas cake. I love it. I love the fruit
22:46cake. I love the marzipan. I love the icing. I love the whole lot. But I actually, I start,
22:52you know, when everybody else is getting up, you know, for a fancy dress at Halloween.
23:00That to me is my first Christmas Day planning. The whole day I put Mariah Carey's Christmas
23:08album on. And that's the day I start making all my Christmas cakes, because I make, that's sort
23:13of one of my kind of Christmas gifts that I give to friends and family is two things, my Christmas
23:19cake. But also I love autumn for foraging, particularly brambles. I think we're totally
23:28blessed in Scotland with so much foraging, but autumn foraging is my absolute favourite.
23:33So my freezer is packed with brambles, wild blackberries. And I make a thing called bramble
23:41whiskey. So I have a bottle of whiskey in a kind of like big jar, fill the rest with brambles. I
23:51put a little bit of lime zest and juice because I like it a wee bit kind of tart as well. And I
23:57shake it. I've got literally bottles and bottles and bottles of it. Shake it every day for about,
24:04I don't know, maybe nine weeks. Firstly, the colour is beautiful. It takes on that dark, dark
24:13ruby purple of the brambles. And it sort of doesn't taste of whiskey and it doesn't taste
24:19of brambles. It's its own remarkable kind of liqueur. So that's so most people will get a
24:26Christmas cake and a bottle of bramble whiskey from me in the build up to Christmas and
24:32every seems very happy. So there's always a Christmas cake. But because there's a lot of
24:36kind of festive spices, and you either love them or you're not a fan, you know, these kind of
24:42cinnamons and, you know, kind of all these kind of mixed spices. So I always make sure that is
24:50a lighter dessert. And I love to make a festive pavlova. I love pavlova on Christmas Day,
24:58that kind of like envelopment of meringue and cream and fruit. So I like to make sure
25:05there is a balance between the different types of desserts on Christmas Day as well.
25:09Sounds delicious. You know how Tom Cruise is famous for sending people a cake every year.
25:14This is like a much more wholesome version of it because he doesn't make the cake.
25:22And just, you've obviously you've got your new book out, but you're working on a TV
25:27programme as well. Can you tell us anything about that?
25:30Yeah, I mean, quite exciting to say the least, because I mean, in my family, Peter is the TV
25:38guy, you know, he has his own show on BBC Alba. And I sort of appear in it every so often,
25:43but telly was always sort of his thing. But the moment that they came to me with the idea,
25:51I was like, Oh my goodness, I love. I always think if you would watch it yourself, then,
25:59you know, it'll work. And this is, it's a show, it's a food show, but it's a show about
26:06islands and island culture as well. So in each episode, I start in the Hebrides.
26:11But then I will travel and learn about the food culture of the Hebrides. But then I will travel
26:16overseas to an island. And this is the first series of Scandinavia. And I will learn about
26:22not only their food culture and go on these amazing food adventures. Like in one episode,
26:29I'm going cod fishing in one of those big trawler fishing boats in the Arctic Circle. I mean,
26:36yeah, amazing kind of adventure like that. But then also kind of learn from the people.
26:44Is there something that connects the mentality and culture of islanders together? You know,
26:51is there something in an islander that resonates across the world? That's what I kind of want to
26:55learn in this. So I'm really looking forward to that. We start filming that, that'll be next
27:01autumn, which I think people will really enjoy. Nice. And that's BBC Scotland.
27:08Actually, I don't know where it's going to land. I'm doing two versions. I'm doing a Gaelic and an
27:12English version. Obviously, the Gaelic version is for BBC Alba. The English version, the rights have
27:19been bought by this global broadcaster. So it's going to be everywhere. But I don't know yet
27:27where. It was amazing to think that I got there because of the culture and the food of the
27:37Hebrides. That's what has inspired people. What a treat. So that was pretty special.
27:44I'm just about to start my Scottish tour. So I am going everywhere from Stornoway to Aberdeen
27:53to Oban to St Andrews, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Inverness, Dollar, Stewarton, everything in
28:00between. So people can go on to hebrideanbaker.com to find out the tour dates as well.
28:09Well, I'll hopefully see you in Glasgow. I think I've got that in my calendar actually.
28:14Yes, thank you very much. It's been great to see you and speak to you again.
28:19And I'm looking forward to seeing your book. It's in the office. I've not seen it yet.
28:23I need to go into the office to get it. Please do. I'll be looking out for that banana
28:29kloosey dumpling because I've never attempted it again after it kind of went really hard in the
28:34oven. So I know you're not supposed to put it in the oven. Anyway, it's a whole thing.
28:38But thank you very much. And yeah, have a good book tour and Christmas when it comes.
28:44Thank you very much, Rosamund.