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00:00Here in Paris right now, protests are taking place, a march against the far-right National Rally Party,
00:05an alliance of feminist groups, thousands of people involved, going from the iconic Place de
00:10République here in the capital, walking four kilometers across the city to the Place de la Nation.
00:15Here are some of the images. There are similar demonstrations right now too in Toulouse, in
00:20Bordeaux, dozens of other towns and cities against the far-right, organizers saying that women's
00:26rights are being undermined if the party wins the upcoming elections, the first round remember,
00:32in just a week's time. Let's hear from some of those at the demonstration.
00:38As soon as this protest to defend women against the far-right was organized,
00:41I wanted to assert our values that cannot be defended by a party like the National Rally,
00:47a party that opposes equal pay between men and women, a party that represents everything but
00:52women's rights. So we need to make our voices heard, defend our cause and heritage, we can't let that go.
01:04I think that's what makes them dangerous, the fact that they put on a feminist facade,
01:08because some people will believe it, but their actions don't match up. Because yes,
01:12some members of the National Rally voted to enshrine abortion in the constitution,
01:16but many did not. What scares me is the prospect of violence and the hatred towards women becoming
01:22normal. If the National Rally comes to power, everything they've always preached could become
01:26normal. And I'm scared that we'll no longer act against domestic violence and it could become
01:30normalized. France 24's Vedika Bahel is in the midst of the demonstration and said this a moment
01:36ago from here in Paris. Today's demonstration has very much been a show of unity in fighting
01:45for women's rights and freedoms. And what has been seen in abundance is a lot of variety and diversity
01:51in the types of demographics who have turned out to protest for women. It's not just women's groups
01:56and feminist groups. In fact, it was really diverse. There was climate associations, religious groups,
02:02political groups, as well as youth and the elderly and LGBTQ organizations as well. So it was a real
02:07melting pot of solidarity here today. There's also a great ratio of men demonstrating as well.
02:14One man that I spoke to said that he was here to raise his voice for his daughters and his sisters
02:19and the women in his life. He said he didn't believe Jordan's statements about championing
02:23women's rights and that he feels that women and minorities would be at risk under a far-right
02:27government. In terms of women, all the women I've spoken to today have raised serious concerns about
02:34reproductive rights, their rights in the workplace, funding for family planning that allows women to
02:40defend the rights to their own body. So those are the issues on the table that they are concerned
02:45with. And one beautiful thing that has been seen here today is reclaiming the use of the whistle.
02:51Feminist groups, when announcing this march, said that they would be blowing the whistle,
02:56raising the alarm on the dangers that they feel a far-right government could bring. And that's
03:00really been present in this demonstration today. Before and during the demonstration,
03:06women, hundreds of women, have blown whistles throughout in their protest against the extreme
03:12rights. It's worth saying, earlier this week, the National Rally leader, Jordan Bardella,
03:19said he was urging women to vote for the party. He claimed there were many misconceptions about
03:24their policies, including over abortion rights. This is what he said. I want to address all the
03:30women of France today. The freedom between women and men, the freedom to dress as we wish, the
03:36fundamental right to control our own bodies are non-negotiable principles.
03:41Let's cross to Bologna in Italy and bring in Alice Apostoli, the co-founder and co-director
03:46of Gender in Geopolitics Institute, feminist foreign policy expert. Great to have you on
03:50the program. Great to talk to you, Alice. Let's start off with the march taking place today and
03:56what you make of what's going on here in France right now.
04:00So the feminist civil society has been very active against far-right parties during the European
04:06elections campaign and now during the national legislative campaign. So there is a strong
04:11narrative that the National Rally is not a defender of women's rights, which was translated
04:19by the fact that the president of the party felt compelled to post this video that is trying to
04:26appease women's concerns for their rights. What strikes me and a lot of feminist activists and
04:34organizations in France is that he stated that the party would be an unwavering defender for
04:40women's rights, which is not the case, but also stated some freedoms that the party itself doesn't
04:46really defend. For example, the freedom to wear whatever we wish. It was not very warmly welcomed
04:57by feminist activists since members of his parties already intervened against wearing a hijab, for
05:06example, or against students to wear long dresses, which could be possibly an abaya. So we can see
05:16that this fight for women's freedom is not only a facade, but only really targets white women.
05:23So when you talk about, well, first of all, we heard from Jordan Bardella talking about
05:28the issues about enshrining the rights to abortion for women to choose, that that wouldn't be touched
05:34by the National Rally. You talk about the right to wear what you want, whether that's religious
05:39attire or not, and that being potentially infringed upon. Again, that's something that the National
05:44Rally have disputed this week, but it's clearly not believed by many women who are marching today.
05:51Tell me some other areas where you think there are key threats, impingements on rights.
05:58Well, I believe there is a concrete threat to abortion rights in France if there is more power
06:04to far-right parties. What would be the most immediate threats in terms of gender equality
06:11would be the many attacks that the transgender community in France has been
06:15confronted with the past few weeks after a proposed bill to facilitate the change of gender
06:23in the civil status. It was responded by right and far-right parties that proposed a counter
06:30bill that would, on the contrary, restrain healthcare and treatment to minors that are
06:36transgender. And a lot of hate speech and discourses in the media on a daily basis.
06:46And also what would be against the transgender community, but also when it comes to intersex
06:54people, there is a clear neglect that is currently happening in France. A few days ago,
07:02an ex-official of the party stated that he can't wait to be in three weeks from now. So after
07:09the ballots, so he can physically attack gay men. So there is this strong LGBT,
07:16I phobic discourses and values in that is inheritance in this party. I think that would
07:22be the most immediate threats against gender equality. And of course, that would be coupled
07:28with a clear neglect of victims of gender-based violence, maybe attempted attacks on sexual and
07:40reproductive health and rights. This is what we have seen in our neighboring countries in Europe,
07:47in Poland or in Hungary. And this is why there is so much mobilization amongst women and
07:56men and feminist organization in Paris, because we know what could be ahead of us and we want
08:01to avoid it. The same way we constitutionalized abortion in France, it was to avoid having a
08:08backlash and our own overturning of Roe v. Wade. I want to raise something to you, Alice,
08:16is really eye-catching aspect of some of the polling this week. Polling by Opinion Way,
08:22which is carried out for several French newspapers. Bear in mind that we have the
08:26National Rally leading overall in the polls, showing so far around 34%, 29% for the left-wing
08:33alliance so far. Of those voters, back in 2019, 21% of women voted for National Rally. If we fast
08:41forward to this week's polls, we're looking at 33% of women voting for Le Pen's far-right party.
08:48What do you make of that? I think it's important to highlight that the National Rally only evokes
08:56gender equality through the prism of immigration. During the European election campaigns,
09:01the far-right only ever talked about gender-based violence while repeating that it was immigrants
09:07that would represent 77% of rape cases in France, which is a blatant lie. And that
09:14leaves behind the vast majority of victims that have been raped or assaulted by someone they know,
09:20that is nine out of 10 cases. So this neglect to care for victims of GBV and worse, being in
09:30opposition to funds, programs, and feminist discourses that could actually help prevent
09:34and finish those crimes, made it that video that we reviewed was a necessary move to appease the
09:46concerns mainly of white women that wish for gender equality, but not for every woman, and that deem
09:54that the system is not the problem. The men they know is not the problem. The political leaders
10:04are not the problem. The immigrants are. And there is this confirmation bias that when it comes to
10:11street harassment, when it comes to violence, I mean, immigrants and Islam are deemed the
10:20main causes of violence against women. And this is a false narrative that is quite effective
10:26amongst women that vote for the National Rally. They are not defending women's right. They are
10:31instrumentalizing its struggle to carry on anti-immigration agenda. So to drill down and try
10:37to just to clarify the main point there. So when we look at this, voting appears to be an increase
10:43we will see obviously this time next week after the election. But as you see it, because we haven't
10:48got the breakdown, if it has increased, you think that may be down to primarily white, Caucasian
10:55women voting for them and either a softening of the image of the National Rally or an appearance
11:00of a softening of the image of the National Rally on women's rights? I think there is an
11:07appeasing effort. There has been for the past 10 years efforts to look less extreme, less xenophobic,
11:15less unnerving. This is why Jordan Bardela is so popular amongst young people is because he is not
11:26shouting in interviews, for example. There is this very calm appearance that is in line with
11:34what the National Rally would like to perform. And this, I lost my train of thought. No, it's a good
11:49point. I mean, I wanted to pick up as well because, you know, you're in Italy and there are
11:54Maloney governments right now. There was a lot of fear about the far right, which are now generally
11:59classed as hard right, really part of their grouping in the European Parliament, which is the
12:05Europeans of Conservatives and Reformists, seen as more nationalist than out and out far right,
12:09but it's debatable. And the two can move back and forth. But do you compare the far right in France
12:18with what could happen in Italy under a Maloney government? Or do you think in terms of women's
12:22rights, it could be more extreme than that? I believe it could be extreme depending on how
12:30influential the party could be in the National Assembly in France. Typically in Italy, and this
12:38is a phenomenon that we also can observe in France, is that even though abortion is not explicitly
12:45illegal and criminalized, there are the liberty of conscience, there are medical deserts that mean
12:54that in a lot of regions there isn't enough healthcare access. So the liberty of conscience
13:03is that a doctor, a professional of healthcare can deny performing abortion because of his religion
13:12or because of his values, resulting in a very difficult access to abortion in most of the
13:21territory without being criminalized. So this is what could happen in France as well, and this is
13:28what we have observed on a smaller scale, but that scale can heighten depending on the ballots in
13:37two and three weeks. Alice, good to talk to you. Alice Abosterly, co-founder and co-director of
13:41the Gender in Politics at Geopolitics Institute. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Well, as we
13:48were talking about a moment ago, it is a week until voters head to the polls here in France.
13:51There'll be a special program actually, live minute by minute. We'll have reporters at all
13:56the polling stations, at all of the party HQs, analysts, politicians in the studio.
14:00Me and Nadia Massa will take you through as the results come in.