Brussels, my love? Orbán's trip to Kyiv and Moscow
In this edition, host Méabh Mc Mahon asks what difference a Hungary-led EU Council presidency could make, and hears why Vienna's the place to be.
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00:00Hello there and welcome to Brussels My Love, Euronews' weekly talk show on all the news
00:18bubbling here in Brussels and beyond. I'm Maeve McMahon, thanks for joining us. Coming
00:24up this week, Make Europe Great Again, the slogan the Hungarian presidency has chosen
00:29for its term chairing the EU Council. Presidencies are normally quite technical, quite administrative,
00:35but Prime Minister Viktor Orbán hopes to control the direction of the ship over the
00:38next six months. He's even set up a new far-right group in the Parliament, Patriots for Europe.
00:44Will he succeed in making Europe great again? We'll find out. And Ursula von der Leyen,
00:50Kaya Callas and Antonia Costa, the trio set to lead key EU institutions for the next five
00:56years. The Council says it wants Ursula von der Leyen to continue to head the Commission,
01:02while former Portuguese Prime Minister Costa chairs meetings of EU leaders. Estonia's Callas
01:07would become EU foreign policy chief, assuming, that is, that she and Ursula von der Leyen
01:12win backing from the European Parliament. What energy will this new constellation bring?
01:18Do they have the vision and authority the EU needs? We'll find out with our panel this
01:23weekend. Sade Islam from New Horizons Project, a Brussels-based communications company. Richard
01:29Schenk from MCC Brussels, a Hungarian think tank. Thanks for having me. Welcome. And Antonios
01:34Nestoras from the European Liberal Forum. Thank you so much to you all for being with
01:39us here. But as usual here, just some context on the big story of the week before we hear
01:45your views.
02:15But instead of hosting European dignitaries this week, Viktor Orban made a surprise trip
02:20to Kiev, his first since a full-scale invasion began. Maybe he's looking to become more visible
02:29or make more friends. To kick off the presidency this week, a special mass was held in Brussels.
02:37Meanwhile, Orban is trying to find a political family for his MEPs, who currently sit alone
02:43in the European Parliament. This week, he launched a new group, Patriots for Europe,
02:49joined by the Austrian Far-Right Freedom Party and the Czech and Portuguese populists. The
02:57question now, will France's far-right group also join after their own elections this Sunday?
03:03And what does a patriot presidency mean for the EU?
03:05Well, let's start perhaps with Richard to hear what more plans do you know Viktor Orban
03:13has for this presidency? Should we expect a new type of Viktor Orban? It seems like
03:18he is trying to break away from this political isolation.
03:21We will not see a new type of Viktor Orban. He's the longest serving prime minister in
03:24Europe by now. So we have a lot of precedents from how he acts, how he reacts. Actually,
03:30we even have a previous experience with the Hungarian presidency back in 2011. And from
03:35this experience, we know that Hungary is not going to throw rocks deliberately into the
03:40European machinery. Actually, the highest priority for the current Hungarian presidency
03:45is economy, competitiveness, more specifically. And Hungary has a long list of issues that
03:51it wants to promote several legislative topics, where it wants to promote, set, give its own
04:02type of, promote its own interests also. But this is usually, basically every presidency
04:09does this.
04:10Of course, as we said, it's your moment to shine as well and show off your country.
04:14Sade, from your perspective, do you think the tone of the EU could change in the next
04:18six months with Hungary?
04:20You know, I'm not so worried about the council presidency because there are guardrails. And,
04:25you know, we're living through a period of transition. So, you know, legislation is minimal,
04:28if you like. And, you know, the council itself is with some very mature politicians. So I'm
04:34not so worried what happens during the council presidency. And as Richard has said, you know,
04:39the agenda, if it is economics and competitiveness, this is very good. Let's make Europe great
04:43again. But the problem is, what are the values that Hungary and Prime Minister Orban will
04:49be focusing on? And if that narrative changes even more to the far right than it is at the
04:54moment, then I am worried. I'm worried about Fortress Europe. I'm worried about women's
04:58rights because this is something we don't talk about. I'm worried about our gay population.
05:02I'm worried about things like that. But as I said, the presidency, not such a problem.
05:08I was talking the other day, Maeve, to some Asian friends of mine. And, you know, we were
05:11talking about how the far right is gaining in many of our capitals, French elections,
05:16the Netherlands just has a government which is far right. And they didn't even know about
05:21the Hungary presidency because it's sort of dwarfed by the overall picture of the changing
05:26landscape in Europe. And indeed, we're just going into summer season as well. So we really
05:30only hear more perhaps as of September. But, Antonios, from your perspective, is there
05:34a feeling of nervousness in your circles? Because, of course, Viktor Orban is known
05:37for blocking progress often at council. And now he'll be setting the agenda. I have to
05:42agree with Shada that the slogan is quite the overpromise. Make Europe great again.
05:50We all know that the council presidency is important, but it doesn't hold enough power
05:55to introduce any massive changes. So it's more about gaining attention, provoking a
06:01little bit the Brussels establishment by imitating Trump, but not really starting a revolution
06:09in Brussels. I'm more worried about what Richard said, that Orban is going to stay
06:16the same because that is a contradiction for the slogan. You know, the slogan is make Europe
06:23great again. If you want to make Europe great again, you have to have a strong EU. And what
06:27Orban has been doing for the past decade or so is blocking significant decisions, weakening
06:34our position against Russia, weakening our support for Ukraine.
06:37Indeed. I mean, let's hear from Richard, in fact, on that, because we've heard as well
06:41from the foreign minister of Lithuania just last week saying that Viktor Orban is a structural
06:45problem, he said, for Europe because the Hungarian government is constantly blocking progress.
06:50Well, if you look at the balance of the European economic policies in the last five years,
06:56it was not a string of successes, to put it mildly. We lost a lot of ground compared to
07:01other industrial states, developed economies in the world, compared to the USA most prominently.
07:10And this is exactly where the Hungarian presidency's claim that we need to regain the initiative
07:14comes from. So, and if you, Orban is going to stay the same in the sense that he always
07:21had a very strong focus on economy back domestically. This was hidden from international audiences.
07:27But actually, if you look in the group of European states that has been the most successful
07:33economically, it was the Visegrad group of states. Hungary is no outlier, neither to
07:37the better nor to the worse in this regard. And this was the key to cement his government at home.
07:44Well, here in Brussels, we all know what Viktor Orban looks like, but we just want to share
07:47this video with our viewers just to show how he came to town this week and visited the
07:51EU institutions and put this video on social media. Take a look.
08:27Quite a video, right? Compared to the often very dull video we see coming out of the EU institutions.
08:34What image is Viktor Orban trying to convey here?
08:36Well, a rock star, right? But does he realise that Queen and Freddie Mercury were actually,
08:41you know, Freddie Mercury was an immigrant? This is rock, we will rock you, right? Does
08:46he realise that he's giving the visibility to dear old Freddie Mercury, one of the best
08:51pop stars, rock stars that Europe has ever produced, who was born in India or in Zanzibar?
08:57Wow, I love it.
08:59Well, this is a fundamental misunderstanding of his communications, because for many people
09:04who are his opponents are projecting their own political style onto his communications.
09:11And for Viktor Orban, and also for his voters and his core electorate, to be honest, these
09:18are topics that are not very high on the agenda in the very first place. As I told
09:22this, are people who are oriented materialistically in a good sense of way, who are struggling
09:28to find jobs, not struggling, but they want to earn higher wages, they want to have secure
09:33jobs, they want to build their own houses. So this is his core message.
09:39But is it a bit old style and no substance?
09:42It's Orban who usually says, I don't look at what they say, I look at what they do. And
09:47this is what we're going to do as well. We're going to look at what he does and not what
09:51he says or what his style is or what he's wearing or what kind of music.
09:56No one minute video is conveying a lot of action. The Hungarian presidency has its documents,
10:01has a program, has prepared like every presidency everything in advance. If you want to look
10:06into the substance, obviously you need the longer documents that go into detail, but
10:10a one minute video is never going to convey anything.
10:13The music is so, I have to say the music is fantastic, right? But why is he using Queen
10:18and Freddie Mercury?
10:20Because they are popular songs. Many people have heard these songs before.
10:23Yes, but you do realize where that's coming from. I mean, it's Freddie Mercury, as I said,
10:28is a rock star who is, you know, he was gay and brown and from Africa.
10:34I don't think it's quite that song, though. It's quite similar.
10:36Yeah.
10:37OK, maybe not.
10:39But we can indeed, you talk about substance. Let's take a look at the priorities of the
10:43presidency, because, of course, every rotating presidency gets to put out their priorities
10:46and the big focus for Hungary, they've said, will be on an enlargement policy, merit based,
10:53stemming a regular migration and also a farmer orientated EU agricultural policy and addressing
10:58demographic challenges. So could we see the Hungarian presidency reopen the Migration
11:04Pact, for example?
11:05They have said that they want to reopen it. But as previously, we have also stated that
11:11the council presidency cannot set the agenda completely autonomously. So that obviously
11:15they will advocate for it, try to get the new commission, especially to open it up because
11:20the commission has the sole right of initiative in the European legislative process.
11:24But on the other side, if you look at the enlargement policy back then, 2011, it was
11:29actually the Hungarian presidency that finished the dossier on the on the on the creation
11:33in enlargement policy. And this is going to be a strong, very strong focus, this enlargement
11:39into the Western Balkans, what is going to happen with Serbia, with Macedonia, with Bosnia,
11:44very politically very sensitive topics. And Hungary has a very clear stance on this. They
11:49want enlargement.
11:50And this week, just when it comes to competitiveness, we saw Viktor Orban write an editorial in
11:55the Financial Times. Did you read it? I mean, would you agree with some of the points made?
12:02It seems look, the programme in itself is not that bad. It has elements that resonate
12:08with broader European values, competitiveness, defence, enlargement, so minority protection
12:13of minority rights. So we can agree in some parts with with the programme or Orban.
12:22The fundamental disagreement would be even the name of the group, Patriots for Europe.
12:28The patriotic thing to do today, if you really love your country and you want to see it prosper
12:34and secure, is to support strong Europe. And that's exactly the opposite of what Orban
12:40is doing. So he might write an article in the Financial Times where we say, OK, we can
12:46agree with this or that. But when he's blocking significant decisions that make Europe stronger,
12:52especially when it comes to Ukraine, but maybe his tone might change now after his visit
12:57to Zelensky. It was his first trip this week, Shadda Islam. Since that full scale invasion
13:01began, he made a surprise trip to visit Zelensky, to visit Kyiv.
13:05No, that was very, very good. And I think also I agree with Antonio's that, you know,
13:09what he said in the Financial Times and competitiveness agenda is crucial for Europe. Enlargement,
13:13Richard, I totally agree. The Western Balkans have been marginalised and, you know, it's
13:17very important that they're brought back into this conversation. And that would be excellent
13:22if Hungary does manage to do that. Where I worry is actually what's happening at home
13:27in Hungary, where, you know, human rights organisations have talked about a wrecking
13:31ball that's been taken to so many of the equality agenda that Europe cherishes. I mean, at least
13:36many Europeans cherish. And where, you know, you see civil society shrinking space for
13:41that, you get media, independence of media is being curtailed and you and you see abortion,
13:47access to abortion, women's rights and not to mention rights and racism. So I'm worried
13:51about the image that we're projecting through through governments like we have at the moment
13:58in Hungary. And I totally agree that the agenda for Europe sounds good, except the
14:02opening of the immigration pact, which I wonder which direction will that take us into?
14:07That would be a disaster. It took us 10 years to reach this compromise. It's a historic
14:12compromise. We cannot have it all for ourselves. You know, we have to make compromises in Europe.
14:17That's what we've been doing for 70 years now. And it's at least that part is working
14:22great. If we open this again, it's going to be a disaster.
14:26This is actually a counter argument to claim that more Europe is always better for Europeans
14:31because the European legislation on migration took so long, was so hard to achieve. First,
14:38the current migration pact was began in 2016. And I mean, the crisis has been looming during
14:45all the time and basically unsolved. So this long decision making process in Europe actually
14:52took too long. And it was only a compromise. This was very unsatisfactory for most people
14:57who were who put their hopes into this immigration pact. And meanwhile, the nation states couldn't
15:03couldn't progress on their own migration policies because you took so long because people were
15:07blocking it and they were never satisfied with with what and the fact of the matter
15:12is migration needs to be managed. That is certainly clear. But I just want to bring
15:16in a voice of Fidesz MEP who will be taking up office on the 16th of July. His name is
15:22Andras Laszlo. And he seems very much in favor of compromise building. But I asked him in
15:28fact about that name that make Europe great again, why they chose that slogan.
15:34I've worked as a civil servant in the first Hungarian presidency in 2011. Back then our
15:38slogan was strong Europe. I think this is very similar. We still have the same kind
15:44of agenda. We want to make Europe stronger. As I said, we want to make Europe more competitive.
15:48We want to make Europe more safe. All in all, we want to make Europe great again. If this
15:53is provocative to some, I think that's a good thing because it draws attention to the priorities.
15:58It draws attention to the fact that Europe is indeed facing very severe challenges. So
16:03it is really time to make Europe great again. So that's the Hungarian MEP Andras Laszlo
16:08there defending that slogan, promising that it is time to make Europe great again. And
16:13that is the slogan that they have chosen. But I think just going back to the concerns
16:17that Shadda Islam made earlier, the thing is, the European Parliament as well, back
16:21in 2022, said that Hungary was no longer a full democracy. And we have seen a lot of
16:27collision courses between Brussels and Budapest. Could these next six months, Richard, be a
16:31time to iron these issues out?
16:35Certainly. Certain specifics about this long ongoing debate regarding rule of law and media.
16:42Actually, this was already presented in 2011 in the previous Council Presidency of Hungary.
16:48Back then, it was a media law that basically dominated the public discussion on this issue.
16:54I don't think, though, this is going to be directly linked to the Hungarian presidency.
16:58Actually, it limits its role to negotiate on these issues because it has to act as an
17:05honest broker between member states as well. So in this regard, the hands of the Hungarian
17:10presidency are even more tied than before.
17:12Indeed, it has to act as an honest broker and be the chair, sitting around the table
17:15bringing people together. But we were also curious to know if people over in Hungary
17:20were aware that they would be in the spotlight for the next six months. So Euronews' Adam
17:25Magner took to the streets of Budapest to ask them.
17:30I don't think that's good for Europe as a whole. He's not accepted anywhere. He's not
17:34accepted in the whole EU. Now he's trying all sorts of factions, but it's not going
17:38to work.
17:39What's happening here in Hungary now, you can call it what you want, the suppression
17:47of democracy, whatever you want to call it. We're not going to get the money until we
17:51change the internal affairs here. I don't think there will be negative consequences,
17:55but it certainly won't be positive.
18:01I don't have a very strong opinion on that. Obviously, it's our turn, as other countries
18:06have their turns. That's all.
18:08Actually, I don't think it will be that big of a change. It's just a mandate. It doesn't
18:16really have that much significance.
18:20I don't follow the news much. I watch the European Football Championship. That's it.
18:24Well mixed views, but impressive how most people were at least aware of the rotating
18:28presidency and many worried about the power that it has.
18:31Yes, really well informed citizens there of Budapest, but some concerned as well about
18:36the funding. Of course, there's funding blocked now. Important recovery funding is still blocked.
18:42It's on hold because the Hungarian government still needs to comply with a number of rule
18:47of law issues. Perhaps we might see a transformed Hungary now.
18:51Well, you know, I love Hungary. I love Budapest. I go to Budapest very, very often for work
18:57and I've met people like this, so informed, so experienced and know all the things. This
19:04does not come from a place where you're looking down on a country. On the contrary, I look
19:08up to Hungary for many, many things, but it is true. At one point, it was very easy to
19:13blame Prime Minister Orbán for racism in Europe. Now that we have a panoply of parties,
19:21far-right parties, you know, France, Italy, Netherlands, I think Mr. Orbán doesn't stand
19:27out as such a bigot because there are bigots everywhere and that normalization of bigotry
19:32and racism and far-right ideas and ideals, that is what really worries me.
19:37Well, we keep an eye on everything happening and keep reporting on it, but we must, I'm
19:41afraid, close this conversation. Stay tuned, though, to Euronews as in a few minutes we'll
19:47be back to tell you what Antonio Costa, Kaya Callas and Ersta von der Leyen have in common.
19:52Welcome back to Brussels, my love. I'm Maeve McMahon, and along with my panel, we're just
20:04talking through the news of the week. Well, the major stories are, of course, the elections
20:09in France and, of course, in the UK on Thursday. But what we want to analyse is this, the gathering
20:14of Ersta von der Leyen, Kaya Callas and Antonio Costa after getting the green light from the
20:20European Council to lead the main EU institutions for the next five years. Kaya Callas and Ersta
20:27von der Leyen still need the blessing from the European Parliament, an absolute majority of
20:31half the members plus one. If confirmed, the three would have some of the most sought-after
20:37jobs in the European Union. So, Antonio, what do you think of this trio? It does seem more
20:42geographically balanced and diverse, perhaps, from the past. It does, yes, because of the
20:47addition of Kaya Callas, and that's the very strong element there. She's a member of your
20:53party? Yes, indeed. She's a sitting prime minister coming from a small state in the East. She brings
21:00a different perspective. That is very important. She also brings a deep knowledge of Russia,
21:05which is crucial under the current circumstances. And now we are at this point where
21:13both the leader of the EU diplomacy and the NATO chief, the Secretary-General,
21:19come from the same party. Mark Rutte, who's just, yeah. Exactly. So that would be, I hope,
21:25beneficial for the collaboration and the smooth cooperation between the two organisations,
21:29which we always wanted. And which we will see a lot as defence is prioritised over the next
21:33five years. More cooperation between the EU and NATO. Richard, what's your take on that trio?
21:38Well, this trio is confirming diverse prejudices on Europe in this regard that
21:43politicians who struggled at a national level are escaping to Brussels to continue their careers.
21:49Kaya Callas is struggling in the polls after a scandal around her husband back in Estonia.
21:55Her party suffered a defeat in the European elections at home. Now she has been promoted
22:00to a European top job. Antonio Costa, the same. He had to resign because of a corruption scandal
22:06back home. Now he is a candidate for a EU top job. He has been already elected.
22:12Ursula von der Leyen was supposed to be the successor of Angela Merkel back in 2019.
22:16Then she changed her positions to a Brussels top job. And I think it's a very, very bad sign for
22:22the people outside of the institutions if we say, if you are struggling at home, you are not
22:28performing according to the expectation of the voters. So who should lead then, in your opinion?
22:33Well, to take some successful prime ministers who have a track record of being successful at home
22:41or ministers who have a track record of being successful.
22:43You can think of a few names and we'll bring in Chata.
22:46So for me, I think it's a good team, right? But my concerns are a little different because I look
22:51at the world and Europe from a global point of view as well, right? And I think Ursula von der
22:56Leyen has done a great job on Ukraine, you know, absolutely. But when it comes to Gaza, I think
23:01she has, even in the words of Joseph Borrell, been very pro-Israel to the point where she's
23:06actually destroyed and eroded Europe's credibility as a player in the Middle East. So I think that's
23:13damage that the global south will always remember. And Kaya Kalas, what I do worry about, my concern,
23:19knowing Russia and Ukraine is very good, but we live in a very complex, complicated,
23:24multipolar world. And does she have the experience, the knowledge? Does she have the hunger to learn
23:30about the world outside Europe? So those are my concerns. For Kostas, if I may just say,
23:36I think he changes the colour of Europe, European leadership. We don't talk about it very often,
23:41but he is of Goan extraction, some Mozambican blood there too. So Brussels, so white, finally,
23:47finally has a leader who is not so white and hopefully not in his head either in the way he
23:52looks at the world. That I have to say I'm very happy about. Well, hopefully they'll have some
23:56good advisers on Kaya Kalas as well. Just let's bring in, I wanted to bring in another opinion,
24:01because of course, not everyone supports this trio, like Richard here as well around the table.
24:06Victor Orban voted against Ursula von der Leyen and Giorgio Meloni, the Italian Prime Minister,
24:10abstained. And to find out why, our Rome correspondent, Giorgio Arlandi, asked a member
24:15of Brothers of Italy. The goal of the top EU job appointments is to acknowledge the message that
24:24has come out of the polls, which says that both Macron's and Schulz's policies have been rejected.
24:34The political programs have been opposed nationally, both by French and German voters.
24:45We don't see why we should still believe in the existence of the Franco-German axis,
24:49when it has already been demolished by voters in both countries.
24:55Tommaso Foti there, an Italian MP from Brothers of Italy, the party of Giorgio Meloni, that won
25:0124 seats in the European Parliament elections. So it's not a given, Antonio, that Ursula von der
25:07Leyen or Kaya Kalas will get the majority of MEPs to get them over the line? No, it's not a given.
25:13And again, it's an indication that this whole system is based on compromises and political
25:21deals. Maybe we don't like it. And I can agree with all the criticism. I can find criticism for
25:26von der Leyen and Antonio Costa as well. Everybody can. But in the end, that's how the system works.
25:33If we don't like it, we have to change it. The EU needs reforms as well. I absolutely agree.
25:38We need a stronger European Parliament. We need a proper presidential election.
25:44The Spitzenkandidat is not working as effectively as it should. But we need to agree first that we
25:51have to create, make the Europe that we want. If we have that luxury of time, which I feel
25:59like we're running out of time on so many fronts. This is a bit of contradiction.
26:04If you say that the European Parliament should be given more power, look at the
26:08results of the European Parliament elections. The Greens have been the biggest losers of this
26:13election. They have suffered heavy electoral defeat. The Social Democrats are a smaller one,
26:19and also the Liberals are a bigger one. Your EPP actually did fairly good.
26:23And could Patriots for Europe be the second biggest party, you think?
26:29The negotiations are still ongoing. There's going to be a major announcement on Thursday
26:33on the progress of this issue. But the Patriots for Europe group has evolved around
26:39our regional cooperation and mutual understanding. It has a very big long-term commitment
26:47than many people in our current state. They want to also find a European party around it,
26:51want to have all the institutions that the other political groups have, like think tanks and
26:56foundations. So this is going to be a long-term commitment that's going to be expanded. That's
27:02the plan. They want to expand it step by step to include more and more parties.
27:07I'm sorry, but I don't understand. It's just plain mathematics. You need 51%
27:13to vote the commission president and all the rest of the jobs in the commission.
27:20And that's between the Socialists, the EPP and Renew.
27:26For more information, our viewers can go to our website. We're covering this story extensively.
27:30But for now, this conversation can be concluded. Thank you so much to our panel
27:34for being with us here. And thank you so much for watching. As always,
27:37take care and see you soon on Euronews.
27:47Welcome back to Brussels. My love, I'm Maeve McMahan. And along with Shadda Islam, Richard
27:53Schenk and Antonio Sinistros, we're taking a look back at the stories making news this week.
27:58And one that we really liked was this. Vienna topping the charts again as the most livable
28:04city in the world, according to The Economist, followed by Copenhagen and Zurich and Melbourne.
28:11So have you seen this ranking? Would you agree, Richard?
28:14Certainly, as somebody who is coming from the Central European region, living
28:18along the Danube my whole life, Vienna has always had a special place in my heart.
28:23I like the city very much. And it is indeed very livable. But on the other side, it's also
28:28kind of a microcosm for the struggles European cities have. For example, it has been criticised
28:35by not hosting any major sports events in the recent time. And we should ask ourselves why
28:43the most developed cities, the most livable cities, there are no majorities anymore for
28:48hosting bigger sports events. I think because they're focusing on their people.
28:51That's certainly what Marina Hanke told us. She's an Austrian politician that we had a chat with to
28:56find out why her city is just so perfect for the citizens.
28:59We especially care for women in our city and want that they have no worries in their life and can
29:05live a self-determined life. And therefore, we adapt what we do in our city. Like, for example,
29:10we have a cost-free kindergarten from zero to six years. We have opportunities for careers for women
29:17in the working place. We have an annual public transport system, for example, with a price,
29:22a price of one euro per day. Our municipal waste company and our municipal energy company,
29:28they work together very strongly. And in addition, I think one of the most important things,
29:34one million people in Vienna live in social and affordable housing.
29:38Marina Hanke there, a member of the parliament in Vienna.
29:41Schade, what makes a brilliant city in your eyes?
29:43Diversity, right? And where you can eat what you want, wear what you want, pray where you want,
29:49or not pray where you want. That's, for me, an ideal city. And for me,
29:53Brussels is great. Brussels is my love.
29:56Even though Brussels dropped in the ranking, I think last year it was 30 and it went to 35.
30:01Antonios, what happened?
30:03Is this a segment where we complain about Brussels?
30:05No, we love Brussels.
30:09I love Brussels, apart from the climate. I was just joking. I have two things to say.
30:17The one is that they spend a lot of money in Vienna. They spend a lot of public money
30:22in Vienna. That is good. I'm not against it. But that means that we have to have the money first.
30:27So we need growth. We need prosperity. We need industry. We need competitiveness
30:32in order to have money to spend for public purposes. That is the first.
30:37And the second, what makes a city great, I would say also technology.
30:43We have so many technological advancements. They can help us with waste management.
30:47They can help us with crime. They can help us with traffic management.
30:53This sounds like decades away, I feel. I mean,
30:55because you need the political structure in place as well.
30:58It always comes to that, you know, political will and making the changes.
31:03But it's also interesting, you know, sorry, if I may just, you know,
31:06it depends on who you interview as well, right? This was a wonderful young white woman.
31:11I wonder if you talk to a woman who wore a hijab or a woman who was black,
31:15I wonder if she would say exactly the same thing.
31:17All of our polls, opinion polls and our surveys, the economists among them,
31:22you know, talks to a very, I would say a majority of people, of course,
31:25but then the minority gets more and more marginalized.
31:29So I was, you know, this is something that is extremely important.
31:33We cannot forget that Europe is diverse.
31:35And I would like Prime Minister Orban to remember that as well.
31:39Richard?
31:40Well, this is a very big gap between the EU Council presidents and Vienna.
31:45What Vienna was always a very diversity.
31:49It was the heart of the Habsburg Empire.
31:53It was and Austrians are actually very proud of the diplomatic tradition
31:58between the different cultures, for sure.
32:00On the other side, to be honest, Vienna also had some not so good experiences with diversity,
32:04but I don't want to open historical.
32:06And we do not have time.
32:08Thank you so much to our guests for being here.
32:10Shadda Islam, Richard Schenck and Antonius Nostos.
32:13Thank you for being with us here on Brussels My Love.
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32:26Take care and see you soon.