Converging Apostasy: Vladimir Solovyov and the NAR - Episode 156 Branham Podcast - video Dailymotion

William Branham Historical Research

Support the show: https://www.patreon.com/branham   Available on Spotify, Google, and Apple Podcasts: https://william-branham.org/podcast   John and Steve discuss the influence of propaganda within religious and political spheres, drawing parallels between the tactics used by the NAR and other esoteric and mystical traditions. They explore how these movements manipulate vague scriptural passages to propagate their agendas, highlighting the dangers of such practices. The conversation also touches on the historical roots and evolution of these ideas, tracing their connections back to figures like Vladimir Soloviev and the impact of his philosophies on current religious and political thought.  The episode emphasizes the convergence of various apostate movements and the role of propaganda in shaping public opinion and religious beliefs. The hosts discuss the manipulative techniques used by leaders within these movements to create a sense of urgency and unity among followers, often leading to divisive and harmful outcomes. They also reflect on their personal experiences and the challenges faced by individuals trying to escape such manipulative environments. The discussion underscores the importance of critical thinking and discernment in navigating the complex landscape of modern religious and political movements.  00:00 Introduction 00:31 Podcast Welcome and Host Introduction 01:09 Discussion on Internet Comments and Public Discourse 02:22 Political and Theological Implications of Current Events 03:56 Personal Political Views and Public Perception 05:19 Guest Struggles and Public Reactions 07:05 Historical and Contemporary Propaganda Tactics 09:45 Vladimir Solovyov's Influence and Russian Ideology 12:26 Modern Propaganda and Its Impact on Public Opinion 14:29 Sophia and Gnostic Influences 17:01 Manipulation of Religious Concepts and Discernment 19:05 Solovyov's Prophetic Claims and Theological Influence 21:16 Russian Cosmism and Its Esoteric Roots 25:47 Union of Religious and Political Ideologies 30:19 Esoteric Knowledge and Religious Propaganda 34:45 Controversial Doctrines and Their Origins 38:22 The Concept of Perfection in Esoteric Teachings 42:18 Unification of Believers in Prophetic Visions 46:39 The Role of Cosmism in Modern Ideologies 50:49 The Marvel Universe Analogy and Religious Networks 54:09 Concluding Thoughts and Reflections on the Converging Apostasy ______________________ – Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham – Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ – Visit the website: https://william-branham.org – Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg  – Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham – Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr – Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books

Transcript

00:00You

00:30Welcome to another episode of the William Branham historical research podcast. I'm your host John Collins

00:38The author and founder of William Branham historical research at William dash Branham org and with me

00:44I have Steve Montgomery the author of the converging apostasy and a quick outline of hands-on

00:51eschatology a matter of timing and agency and

00:54And together we're examining the themes of apostasy in the New Apostolic Reformation and its history

01:01Steve it's good to be back and I'm a little excited for today's episode

01:07We uh, we were just talking before we started recording how it's tying in with some of the comments

01:12We've been getting and I'm just I'm dumbfounded sometimes by the things that people

01:18Say and you know on the internet it kind of hides you makes you distant from the person

01:23some of the time sometimes when people are talking

01:26they're saying things that they would never say if they're in front of a person's face because you get that emotional connection and

01:32You know if people were just to stop and think well

01:35No, that that might hurt that person's feelings and it's not going to do any good in the end

01:40But you know that applies to religion that applies to politic

01:45Politics that applies to pretty much everything we've been talking about. So very glad to get into this with you. Yeah me too

01:52John

01:53The the recent comment that I that I noticed and I thought was interesting

01:58it was a valid comment, but I you know, I I didn't feel like I should probably get into it and answer directly, but

02:06Really? I think the the comment of the viewer was in relation to whether I was on the right side

02:12Politically or on the left and so this to me is an answer to that. I

02:18Located a really good

02:21Excuse me, the allergies are coming up here in Texas. I

02:25Found a really good article that deals with this topic. It's by Joshua Pauling

02:31If if you want to look at that later, I can send you a link to it, but he basically says

02:37The political has ascended to become esthical logical

02:42for the left

02:43This is the only hope to usher in a better world in it for the right

02:48This is the last chance to prevent the world's destruction

02:53so I thought about that and I said that was pretty applicable to the topic and then

02:58Like always when we think in generalities or themes

03:04Somebody that's talking about this is not directly speaking about the NAR but I see similarities because as

03:11In the NAR and their predecessors in the latter-ray movement

03:16This sort of thing is an attempt for man to assume the role of God and redeem himself

03:21That's a direct quote from mr. Pauling

03:24And mr. Pauling also says it attempts to replace the

03:30eschatological final judgment wrought by God

03:33with utopian visions wrought by humanity and

03:37In his assessment, this is a problem to which anyone is susceptible when ultimate importance

03:45subscribed to

03:47politics

03:48yeah, it's so interesting because I've seen the comment that you're referring to and I get those there's a reason why when I

03:56Do a podcast I will say I'm not advocating for the Democrats or the Republicans because you know

04:03Honestly to be open and honest

04:05I really think both parties ought to just be done away with and get some actual people in there

04:11I I have a hard time believing. This is the best that America can do. Are you serious?

04:16but what happens is if you say anything that might challenge the beliefs of one side or the other even if it's factual just

04:25presenting facts what happens is if the facts lay

04:30Lay on the critical side of one side or the other well

04:33The other side is going to come in and say well, you're you're taking the sides and I I'd take neither side

04:38I really think that both sides should be just wiped out and let's get some good people in Washington and

04:44It happens not only with politics but religion

04:48As you and I were discussing right before the show. I

04:51Invite anybody who has escaped a cult to come in and talk on my podcast and you know, it's an open door

04:58I have I have let people of beliefs that you know

05:02I'm not going to say which ones because I don't want to hurt their feelings

05:05but they're so far from what I believe that I

05:09Sometimes I have to think it

05:11They're living a life that is deeper fantasy than the one that they left. I'll just say it like that

05:16so I'm not in alignment with many people who get on the podcast, but

05:22anytime

05:23for example today the

05:26Gentleman was talking about he had a struggle with homosexuality

05:30Which you know

05:31I've never had many people that I know who have escaped these cults have had and

05:36I feel a deep concern for them

05:38You know if they struggle I would like to help them if I could I can't I'm not even I'm not a minister

05:45I'm not anything like this and so my recommendation has always been

05:49Go find a pastor to help you if you're wanting to remain Christian and you struggle with this go find a pastor

05:54And I just leave it at that

05:56But what happens is if I invite a guest on the show who has a struggle like this

06:03Well, then it is so polarized and politicized that you'll get people to attack that and say well

06:09You shouldn't have invited him on your show. You must be sympathetic to the homosexuals. Well, my dad was a was a pastor and

06:17One of the things that he I really remember this phrase from him and he was talking about

06:23Interpreting scripture, but obviously it applies to any kind of logical discourse

06:27he says you can't argue from silence and I think you know what that means John, but

06:34easy way to say that is

06:36If somebody directly says something, okay

06:39Well, then you can discuss that you can think about whether there's a dialogue that can happen

06:44But if somebody has not said something you can't

06:48Inject ideas or alternate facts or whatever you want to call them into that discourse because then you have

06:56Really nothing to stand on and so I think I neglected to bring up

07:03Something that is going to it's going to seem perhaps obscure

07:09To the folks that have seen these these podcasts of ours

07:13But I was thinking of a working title for this would be Vladimir Solovyov and the NAR

07:19So Solovyov, I would expect people will not be aware of them. But hopefully after this broadcast you would see a

07:27podcast rather you'd see

07:29how he kind of ties into things and he fits my

07:32my overall

07:34premise of there's a

07:36Converging apostasy coming from different angles. One of course is a Christian identity

07:42Another is just purely political

07:45And then of course latter rain ideas and even what you'd say like new age kind of ideas from Alice Bailey

07:53so

07:54That said this already might sound like I'm stepping on somebody's toes. But here goes

07:59I

08:00thought of the quest to make Russia great again, and so

08:06There's this there's an interesting place that I found this idea coming up in

08:11And that is in The Light Will Come From Russia by the NAR prophetess Gwynne Shaw

08:19Now Gwynne, if anybody has my book, you'll see that not only was she in good standing with all the NAR

08:27apostolic conferences and prophetic meetings

08:30but she was highly influenced by

08:34By esoteric thought and did some plagiarizing on her part

08:38But Miss Shaw tells us in this book that there will be new prophecies and she makes this all mysterious

08:45Related to the role of Russia in the end times. Okay, that's interesting

08:51You can actually hear that kind of stuff from

08:54people on the alt-right say like Richard Spencer and

08:59Even Steve Bannon to a certain extent

09:03Here's another fact that talks about this

09:06Revitalization of Russia

09:07the blind Russian mystic Baba Vanga says

09:12Nobody can stop Russia and she continues saying for the glory of Russia

09:18Vladimir Putin will become the lord of the world. Okay. Well, that's pretty pretty high position for him considering

09:25Kind of yeah, he seems to be

09:28And so one the Russian mystic Vladimir Solov

09:33He would have been writing in the mid 1800s to around

09:371900 to the Holocaust the nine John lamb lash probably another new name for a lot of your listeners and

09:45three

09:47Alexander Dugan

09:48Here's the esoteric fascist and an advisor to Vladimir Putin all of these people

09:55Talk about ushering a new era in order to make Russia great again

10:01Yeah, and you mentioned the ties to the NAR and I'm certain when people see that title

10:06they're gonna say what in the world is this but

10:09Solovyov was a propagandist and as

10:14Anybody who has seen the recent little short documentaries that have been putting out on the NAR?

10:20some of the things that they are spreading is propaganda and

10:24I know that there's this big world of you know

10:28labeling people conspiracy theories if they talk about Russia influencing elections, especially if I mentioned the guy with the

10:36you know with the

10:38the big hair and the orange face

10:40if I mention that

10:42I'm not gonna mention the name

10:45But if you mention that there is a conspiracy happening there are people who will reject that

10:51But I'm an IT guy, I know how AI works I have seen the AI I get on Facebook

10:57I can see it people tell me that my

11:00sometimes they'll share one of my videos and it'll get brought down because the AI will detect that it has

11:07Elements that might be seen as offensive or whatever and and literally it's because I'm quoting these NAR guys or Branham

11:14Which is really ironic if you think about that, they're saying these things in churches

11:18But it's more than a conspiracy theory it is a proven conspiracy

11:23I can see what's happening there and Facebook's algorithm is to try to combat what's going on with Russia and China

11:31Where they're just dumping propaganda to try to sway

11:34Public opinion. Well while Russia and China are doing this with our heads and Facebook and these other social medias

11:41They're doing the same thing in the churches with social medias

11:45Maybe not in the same way or same strategy, but it is propaganda and

11:50That history has been going on

11:53if you watch the

11:55you know the

11:57Christian identity series that I'm doing with John McKinnon

12:00You can go back in the 30s and you can see the same exact thing happening with Hitler and back then they didn't have Facebook

12:07But it's all coming in the newspapers and there were propagandists that were spreading this thing

12:12So the ties are unbelievable if you like you said the converging apostasy. Well now you're converging

12:19apostasy also with propaganda and

12:22You know that combination to me. That is the essence of the NAR

12:28Yeah, John, that's interesting that you mentioned being taken down

12:32Off of the internet for various things just quoting people back when Twitter was Twitter. That's a long time ago, right?

12:39Yes

12:41Never mind, but when Twitter was still Twitter

12:44I was quoting Bill Hammond the supposed prophet of the NRA

12:51sorry in AR and

12:53So Hammond Hammond was just saying these outlandish things about what I would call the sacred purge and I just quote him and it was

13:01evidently

13:02considered

13:04Hate speech or something else. I say yeah, it is hate speech, but he's the one saying it not me

13:09so, but here's something here's something that gets back to the Russian aspect of things and

13:15very interesting to me

13:18because as in the Bible you see wisdom is something you would ask of God if you if you hate need wisdom ask

13:26And your father would give you your father in heaven would give you this

13:30Because you know if you ask for a loaf of bread, he's not going to give you a snake

13:35so

13:36Things like that that you might hear and of course, I'm paraphrasing different aspects that I've heard in Scripture

13:43But here's something that you don't hear too often is

13:47That Sophia is a personal spiritual being

13:52Jane Lee who so greatly influenced the latter rain prophets some of them

13:58She referred to Sophia as the great goddess and the wonder of wonders and she claimed that she got all of her

14:06revelations from Sophia

14:08Okay, there's a reason for that in the esoteric world. And so let me just run down this as far as personal Sophia

14:15other than

14:17Vladimir Solyov, so he does think of her as a personal actual being

14:22Those who consider Sophia to be a personal spiritual being include

14:26The Gnostic Valentinus, go figure

14:30Jane Leeds mentor the spiritualist John Portage

14:34Jane Leed herself. This is going to be a bit odd sounding, but the Satanic Church of Zazuzel

14:40and

14:42five the

14:44Neo-Gnostic John Lamb Lash. So there's another one John Portage probably listeners are not too familiar with him

14:52And probably especially John Lamb Lash, but talk about converging. He's sort of like Wesley Swift

14:59He's got a little bit of everything

15:01So here's what Mr. Lash says on the rise of Russia and I have to warn again. This is going to get pretty weird

15:10So he is a white supremacist. He's also a Luciferian

15:14And he supports the rebirth of Russia

15:17So he's not going to be going waving, you know, the American flag he's actually talking about Russia being the one

15:25for the end times

15:28He says that these ideas have been revealed to him by Sophia and get this he refers to

15:34Sophia as the true Lucifer

15:38Pretty odd idea there and he says that she promotes Russia and America

15:44Left and right working together for an alliance of white power

15:48And so my question might be this does this sound vaguely similar to anything said by politicians?

15:56Generally speaking in recent years

15:59So what about Sophia and the sacred purge according to Lash?

16:03He states that the planets and its people cannot go against Sophia without an annihilation

16:10In the timeline is what he puts it

16:14So similar to the final solution that we all know came from the Third Reich

16:21Lash calls this a Sophiac correction

16:24So he's kind of euphemizing the term final solution given the Jews all of his anti-semitic stuff

16:33Excuse me, and so what makes this especially dangerous is

16:37That like the hands-on

16:39Eschatology of the NAR which of course inherited from say lead and lettering prophets

16:45Lash says

16:47Lash, excuse me says that this annihilation will require human

16:53Participation so it's not gonna be angels of Jesus or an earthquake is gonna swallow him up

16:58He says no humans are gonna have to carry that out and he says we have met the time of this great purging

17:06That's his words. Yeah, and you can go back through history and you can see

17:11Every single bad regime that has risen up and even before it was political regimes every bad religious

17:18Movement that rose up and they tie it to this esoteric knowledge. We have the knowledge we have the secret you guys don't

17:25We're the ones who have the special power and what it is is a tool of manipulation and in its essence

17:31It is a tool of propaganda much like the gentleman we're discussing

17:36what's really ironic is that

17:39There while they have that type of manipulation for whatever is there, you know premise that they're trying to put their agenda

17:46They're trying to push they also have manipulation on the words and phrases if it's a Christian

17:53pseudo-christian religion

17:54Such that for example, I've thought about this long and hard in the latter rain movement

18:00They had this thing that was called discernment

18:02Now in the Bible discernment means being able to discern in other words

18:08Somebody comes to you and they give you this false

18:11Propaganda like these movements are doing and you discern is it true or is it false? It is discernment

18:16well

18:18They're pushing this false thing in this latter rain, right?

18:20so they began claiming that the word discernment actually meant the ability to

18:26detect people's

18:28Personal information that they had written on their prayer cards when they came through the law it is

18:36It is so absurd and and this you know, this got kind of widespread and

18:41So you you hear this word kind of randomly use even in churches that haven't been a part of that latter rain history

18:48Because it was so widespread. They're using this word discernment and not really clearly understanding what it is

18:54So there's propaganda on top of the propaganda

18:59Yeah, so

19:00You know more directly with this fella. So love your of Vladimir his first name

19:06He has a very long middle name, which I'm leaving out

19:10For purposes of not being able to pronounce it very well

19:14But he he said that like a lot of our narrow folks

19:17He claimed to be a prophet and he said that his prophecies would soon come to pass

19:22So he was an influential 19th century Russian philosopher who studied

19:27Go figure lots of esoteric literature

19:31So this included again the Gnostic Valentinus

19:35Kabbalah which has turned up again and again and again in esoteric world and he actually had access to Jane Leeds

19:43mentors

19:44Writings and that is the spiritualist John Portage

19:49So just as a reminder how this is tied into things

19:53more pertinent for today

19:55Several of the lattering prophets borrowed heavily from Jane Leeds writings and many of their ideas were then passed on

20:03To the Nara and also to what some people call diminutist ideas and so on

20:07Because she talks the same and she was back there in the 17th century writing this stuff and then lettering prophets

20:15Plagiarized it and passed it on to folks that preach that stuff today. And so the question here is so what?

20:23Well, I kind of already answered that but another way to word it would be that Solovyov was in the family tradition of

20:30Esoteric teachings that spawned two main things one that literally

20:35Spawned the New Age movement

20:37Whatever people want to call that I would call it Alice Bailey influenced writings and she used the word New Age constantly

20:45so and to

20:47the Jane Leed inspired doctrines that developed and

20:51Progressed in the lettering movement of 1948

20:54So who does this Solovyov have in his corner who promotes him?

21:00Well, a lot of people do behind the scenes in Russia and elsewhere

21:05But here's one John Pope John Paul the second called Solovyov

21:10quote one of the greatest Russian Christian philosophers of the 19th and 20th centuries and

21:16Bringing it all down to today

21:19Russian president Vladimir Putin quote assigned his regional governors with homework. Well, who might they be?

21:29One of the ones that they gave the most homework about

21:33Putin wanted people to be familiar with the writings of Solovyov

21:38now

21:39There's a lot that I'm not including here, but just a quick way of saying how that might come out

21:46Is that people have quoted Solovyov's works and shown how they support

21:56Russian attacks on

21:59Their satellites and in particular the invasion of

22:03Ukraine and stating things. So we talked earlier John about the dehumanizing

22:09language

22:10They would say that the Ukrainians are not even humans. They're

22:15their beasts that

22:17Have have decided that they can actually rise up and challenge mother Russia. And so their demise is fitting

22:25right and the dehumanizing language really is what happens after you have the propaganda because the

22:32Propaganda is meant to manipulate your head get you into an ideology and then hyper charge that so that you can be

22:40Aggressively against something whereas you might not have been in the first place

22:44And you know back to the example, we gave at the beginning of the show a person who has some sort of struggle

22:50I don't care what it is alcoholism in the case that I mentioned

22:54I think it was you know, it was homosexuality

22:57but there are many different sins in the array of sins that humans can do and

23:02That's that's part of being human you struggle with things

23:06You know and what one person has a struggle with the other person doesn't what happens is when you're in these movements and they use

23:13Propaganda to hyper make you hypersensitive against those things. It's interesting because you can see what is the

23:21Clearly the political agenda of the religion because what is the current politics?

23:27What what is the current sin in politics that they're focusing upon?

23:31That's the one they hyper charge you with and that's the one that they they come at you and what happens is it?

23:38Dehumanizes you to the extent that the person who's struggling

23:41You would rather attack them than to try to lift out a hand and help them back up and

23:48It puts it into the place where your average person who has no inclination whatsoever to be a spiritual

23:56Guider to be a minister or evangelist or counselor or anything?

24:01instead you

24:02You use the propaganda to supercharge their mind to attack and that's literally what it's doing

24:09And so these people they attack the person with whatever is the current popular

24:14politicized sin, right and

24:17it's so aggressive and the problem with this is you can look at all of the villains in history that

24:24You know countries that have started world wars. We took, you know, we're talking about Putin right now, but before him there were several others

24:30They they did the exact same thing and they got the people to back them in their agenda

24:36To attack other people and so the fact that they're doing this in religion to me, it's scary. This is some scary stuff

24:44yeah, yeah, and

24:47The the part about Solovio that I think is interesting and takes him out of the arena being

24:54completely obscure and therefore not

24:57Not really important to deal with is similar to Jane lead. I've had people say well why focus on Jane lead?

25:04And my answer is because

25:06much of what I call hands-on eschatology meaning

25:10we will become perfect or we will become

25:15at least morally superior to others as part of the end time and then

25:22ruling and reigning with Christ

25:24well

25:25we'll do that for Christ before a literal person Christ comes to receive the kingdom and then of course the the

25:32The sacred purge aspect of that

25:35Because all of these things are doing being done on behalf of Christ before he returns

25:41So that's where Solovio actually has touched bases if you want to put it through other people

25:47in history on to the alt-right and some of the white supremacist ideas of today and

25:53So here we go with those two supposedly obscure people, but still significant

25:58I can say this as far as Solovio's Sophia. That's a mouthful for me

26:05I can say this like Jane lead

26:09Solovio claimed to have mystical experience with experiences with a personal Sophia

26:15Not just the idea of I want to be wise full of Sophia. No, he was actually

26:21Having visions he said and this may have been related to something as you said that he was struggling with

26:28Because his soul his whole life was sort of obsessed with Sophia

26:33And I think he either had a romantic interest or a wife of that name

26:39so he said

26:41That Sophia was the in one of these visions. He said that she was the perfect image of feminine beauty

26:49Now somebody a scholar who's written about this

26:52Dr. Oliver Smith in

26:54his the Russian boy

26:57Says that so Solovio had deeply

27:01Eroticized visions of Sophia that is really easy to come by if you saw it been someone like him who studied

27:09Valentinus and Kabbalah because they're full of that kind of stuff and

27:13Interestingly that kind of stuff also gets passed on to Jane lead

27:19One of the only components that I've seen in Jane lead that is not so much present in the latter rain is

27:25The feminine aspect of this this divine Sophia

27:30They pretty much stick to Jesus, but they'll add in all of the other

27:35Hands-on eschatology kind of ideas that Jane Lee did. Okay. So as far as the NAR goes

27:43This stuff is similar to what the NAR prophet Bill Johnson's when heaven invades earth says

27:50According to Solovio's the

27:55reconciliation of Sophia Sophia

27:57He says that she is called the rainbow which is reconciling heaven and earth

28:03Where heaven steeps down to earth in divine reconciliation?

28:07So yeah, if you've read Bill Johnson's book

28:12This will probably click with you and you'll say hmm. Yeah, that sounds familiar. You know, it's kind of funny because

28:18Whenever I first left the religion and I was trying to just get footing

28:23I mean, I wouldn't even say that I was on a path yet

28:26I was just trying to get footing and I was trying to understand what what is this mess?

28:29What is this weird thing because we had the secret knowledge and so you get in Google and you type in secret knowledge

28:36And you're gonna find all kinds of things that you know, yeah me

28:39I didn't know existed and it led me straight to Gnosticism, which is the gnosis the secret knowledge, right?

28:46Well, what is interesting is they're each each brand of this thing whether it's Gnosticism or Kabbalah or

28:54any of the others the Sophia character exists in a certain way a certain form and

29:00I began to compare all of these different esoteric religions with what I had grown up with and I found out

29:06It's almost like a cookie-cutter stamp

29:09religion some of them Christianity some of them not and

29:13I got to the point of

29:15Right before the healing revivals before it became latter rain

29:19There were numerous people that were claiming that they had some kind of secret knowledge and it came to them in

29:25different various forms

29:26Which you could easily take whatever it is that they said and replace it with Sophia and it's the same exact thing and then

29:34you know about

29:361940s ish you had all of these men not just William Branham

29:40But many of them claiming that they had a an angel come down and the angel gave them the secret knowledge and therefore I have the

29:47New revelation and you should be my cult members. That's it was so common. So many people doing it, right? Yeah

29:54well, and then

29:56Branham, I don't know. I don't think he originated it but somebody came up with the idea that angels

30:01Had to not be female and so that began to spread through the movement and they took the female aspect out

30:08Which is exactly what you just said. It wasn't the female Sophia, but it was the same exact thing just without gender

30:17What's really interesting is when you come forward and you get into about the time of the Kansas City Prophets

30:23You've got you know, Paul Cain and Bob Jones and all these guys. Well, they took that same

30:30genderless angel that Branham claimed to have he I don't think he really saw anything and

30:35They said it was a female Emma a female angel named Emma

30:39So then they brought the fullness of Sophia back into the to the NAR

30:45Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism?

30:52transition through the latter reign

30:54Charismatic and other fringe movements into the New Apostolic Reformation

30:58You can learn this and more on William Branham historical researches website

31:03William dash Branham org on the books page of the website

31:07You can find the compiled research of John Collins Charles Paisley

31:12Stephen Montgomery John McKinnon and others with links to the paper audio and digital versions of each book

31:20You can also find resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those movements

31:26If you want to contribute to the cause you can support the podcast by clicking the contribute button at the top

31:33And as always be sure to LIKE and subscribe to the audio or video version that you're listening to or watching

31:39On behalf of William Branham historical research. We want to thank you for your support

31:44So yeah as far as this

31:46angelic

31:47Sophia

31:49You know, or is it male or female?

31:51Actually in the writings of Jane Leed

31:55She does something that goes all the way back to Valentino's

31:58And kind of has like have your cake and eat it, too

32:02She says that Sophia is genderless, but what she means is

32:09Actually more accurately she says that Sophia can express herself as male or female as she wishes

32:16Well, if you look in Wicca or other places like that, you see that's a very common idea

32:21And it's pretty much the the idea of the androgynous

32:27Original man, you know, you get in the Plato and folks like that and definitely and

32:33in Valentino's these

32:37Male female pairs in the heavenlies

32:41If one of them is cast down like Sophia was her this is pretty disgusting

32:46But her her pair her consort or she was the consort apparently in his ideas of Christ

32:53And so she got kicked out of heaven for wanting to know what it was like to be God

32:57And of course if we read in the book of Genesis, there's a lot of implications behind that

33:03So she gets kicked out. Okay

33:06her new role as far as esoteric world goes is to enlighten people with the gnosis of their

33:14divine heritage and their divine

33:17Realignment or infusion or union with the angel that they had to leave

33:21So and yeah, you know if you get into some of the Apostles of the Latter-day Saints beginning like George Houghton

33:29George Houghton was one who said

33:34He gave the male gender to the body of Christ he didn't say the bride of Christ

33:41He didn't say the bride of Christ he said no we are the sons of God and the new Jerusalem that comes down upon us

33:48That's the feminine part. So it gets real twisted around and it's like this since that like you said the Emma thing

33:55Okay. So what about Solovyev, Sophia and Lucifer? Okay. Here's this war in it again. It's about to get pretty weird

34:03Well, this guy dr. Stefan a holler says that Solovyev's writings

34:10Were often invocations to Sophia and they were dilated he says with Gnostic and Kabbalistic

34:18terminology and metaphors

34:20for example

34:22Solovyev's Song of the Ophites and maybe you know what that means John

34:27It was written in honor of Sophia who he referred to as the serpent of wisdom in the Garden of Eden

34:35Interesting now if you get into the esoteric world, that's the that's the flip side, you know, everything in the Bible gets reversed

34:43the serpent

34:45representing Satan or Lucifer

34:47turns out to be the good guy the guy that gives illumination and

34:52freedom from the

34:54suppressive

34:56Jehovah and the Jews all those guys are no good. So come with us

35:01So Valentinians who were also the ones that influenced Solovyev taught that

35:08Sophia herself was the serpent if you get into Blavatsky and some of the other occultists you can see

35:15Yeah, yeah, that's fits pretty well

35:17Because Blavatsky calls Valentinus a saint

35:22So go figure

35:25Valentinians also said that this Lucifer like Sophia is and this is where it gets very weird

35:31Prunikos, I think that's Latin or Greek, but yeah, it looks like Greek

35:36I've never heard it pronounced but it literally means and if you're talking about somebody

35:41Who in the occult world is you know, like Lucifer slash?

35:46Sophia

35:49Prunikos literally means quote the sacred whore

35:53Okay, and then similar to Jane Leed inspired manifest sons of God teachings

35:59So love your praise to Sophia

36:02Incarnate yourself in us and restore the fullness of the ages that God may be all in all

36:08I'm glad you brought up the Garden of Eden because and the funny thing you and I tend to beat each other to topics

36:15You you beat me to at that time

36:17But you know when when I began doing this and I began explaining to people that a

36:24Lot of what we grew up with was religious propaganda

36:27It was hard to put that into words because people that that term propaganda has just been so overused that people

36:33Associated with things that aren't even propaganda

36:36But the way propaganda works in the religious form is they like to take these

36:43passages from the Bible that are very obscured very

36:47you know

36:48Don't have a lot of details and what happens is they will spread the propaganda to give you the details to fill in the blanks in

36:55Between and that's the esoteric knowledge. That would that is what would come from Sophia, right?

37:01and so what happens is the people get

37:05Assimilated into these belief sets through propaganda so much so that they will take a passage that has no details

37:11But it's very vague very sometimes prophetic sometimes just literally there there are no details

37:17Such as the Garden of Eden and they'll say what's black and white. Can't you see XY and Z?

37:23that isn't even in the text and

37:26The example that I was gonna go to for that was, you know, William Branham serpent seed

37:31We've mentioned at the two seed doctrine of Christian identity

37:35John McKinnon and I talk about it quite a bit. Well, if you talk to somebody who has been

37:41Manipulated with that

37:43racist anti-semitic propaganda

37:46And I've had him tell me this can't you see it's black and white the serpent had sex with Eve

37:51But there is no text that says the serpent had sex with Eve. That's the result of propaganda

37:56You have the propagandists who are giving you the false information and they're saying fill in the blanks

38:02Can't you see and they hyper charge you to the extent that you know, it's kind of funny after you after I escaped this thing

38:09I look back at some of these things that we believed and they're unimportant, you know

38:14Whether the serpent did or didn't actually in the context of just that passage. It's really unimportant

38:20But we were manipulated to think that it was important much like the propagandists

38:26So we're we were we were in essence

38:29Our minds were you know

38:31Just literally hijacked by some of the propaganda and the fruits of that as you know with Christian identity

38:37Turned into some very dangerous things in the 60s. Yeah, and John you sound like you're

38:43Boy, excuse me today. You sound like you're kind of alluding back to this idea that I was saying my dad taught me

38:50About it. It's a bad idea to argue from silence the silence. There would be a

38:57Full exploitation of one of these sort of vague scriptures. It's a real problem when people try to fill in those gaps and

39:04Technically, I think probably the best thing is to leave them alone if you can't come up with a literal

39:12Plain-to-see

39:13Interpretation of it then just leave it alone and don't don't follow what people are saying

39:18So one of the one of the points in relation to that arguing from silence from vague scriptures

39:25comes what with one of the big ones that all these guys were most don't talk about is the

39:30manifestations of the sons of the manifestation of the sons of God

39:34So Solovyov

39:36Actually was another one who was really intrigued with that that statement

39:41From the Bible and he related it just like Jane Leed to becoming quote perfect

39:48So and and you see this kind of thinking in the narrative to a certain extent, especially with the older prophets

39:54they had more access to be an influence from the latter reign, so

39:58So

40:00Solovyov was studying the the eighth chapter of Romans and

40:04that's where this phrase comes from and

40:07He said this helped him to develop his desire for immortality and for the glory of the sons of God

40:14Well, he could easily sound like a latter-in-prophet, you know, even though he's just a Russian mystic

40:20And so again, this dr. Stefan a holier says that all of Solovyov's writings about perfection

40:28are both

40:30Theosophic and theurgic. So I came across that word, you know, we read we learn

40:36Haven't heard it too much. But I think it's

40:40Easily defined as calling down spirits

40:44Even asking them to well calling them down for information

40:49Because they're you know in the heavenlies and they know more about stuff than we do

40:53Or even asking them to channel through your body to get prophecy or

40:59to

41:00Inhabit your body permanently as a matter of perfection. The latter part there would fit Jane Glead and

41:09Valentinus quite well. So so what is this this theurgy?

41:14Well, we can go to one of the horse's mouths here

41:18The Satanist Helena Blavatsky of the Theosophical Society

41:23defined theurgy as quote a

41:26communication with and a means of bringing down to earth

41:31Planetary spirits and angels who are the gods of light. I mean that sounds like it's coming straight out of Jane Leeds

41:38Mouth, especially if you've read

41:40this kind of stuff from my book quoting Jane Leed

41:44But here's where it gets a little bit interesting I mean or more interesting

41:48How does this idea of calling down spirits?

41:52Compare with the NAR prophet Bill Hammond when he calls down angels to quote

41:58appoint themselves

41:59companions with Christians

42:02I just have to leave it at that. I think it compares pretty well

42:07And so here's something else that you can see

42:10Parallels with the the NAR

42:12Solovyev and unity

42:16on the topic of unity he says that

42:21There would be a global unification of the church and a theocracy

42:26Which would be ruled by a Russian czar of course think like in his day. They had Russian czars and

42:33a universal church

42:35With a Pope and the Prophet he's pretty vague about what he means by the Prophet

42:40I don't know folks read your Bible and see how that will compare to things you might hear in the book of Revelation

42:45So speaking of Revelation in

42:491900 Solovyev wrote a short story of Antichrist

42:53And it sounds oddly similar to what the NAR prophetess

42:57Sandy Jacobs says I mean

43:00generally speaking

43:02So for Solovyev, he says that genuine believers, ah whoever heard that lately

43:10from

43:11Catholicism Russian Orthodoxy and Evangelical Protestantism

43:16Will all come together in unity in the 21st century

43:21okay, so

43:23Talking about the the great end time revival of course some people would say no the Bible really doesn't say that the the billion-person

43:32Harvest and all that there's plenty of scriptures that would oppose that and say directly the opposite

43:37We're here have Solovyev agreeing with the NAR prophets and saying that yeah

43:43All these guys are going to get together and it's actually some direct quotes from Sandy Jacobs. It talks about

43:49There must be complete unity among believers. And that's where you see some of the ideas of

43:56Having this big tent kind of philosophy of saying okay

44:00Well, you're Catholic, but are you on with what we're doing? Yeah, you're a non charismatic. Maybe you're

44:07Maybe you're Methodist, but hey, we need to set up the kingdom of God. Are you with us?

44:12And so yeah, it does sound like NAR teaching to me

44:16But in the same story a short story of the Antichrist

44:22Solovyev says

44:24That there will be an imposter. Hmm. Okay, go figure

44:28And but he says that later

44:32People that support him will become pleased with killing and silencing those who oppose this

44:39Diabolical tyrant they will even hold festivities to execute them for God, you know, and it's kind of weird and

44:48almost like a

44:50Fantasy movie to the way the NAR developed over time. I'm sure you're familiar with this, but I'm finding not everybody

44:57Even in the NAR is aware of this history

45:00But when C pit Peter Wagner started putting a name on what was emerging

45:04He started claiming that there were different regions of the earth that were ruled by these elemental spirits

45:11And so we need to establish this network and the network became the NAR

45:16But this network of Christians who may not even believe the same things

45:20But in the network they can provide prayer warriors to go fight the spirits

45:25And this guy named Ted Haggard started claiming that there was this Queen of Heaven that he was trying to

45:31battle it with his spiritual warriors and

45:35What was her name? It was Anna Mendez

45:38I think it was

45:39called a group of several people and they went up into the Himalayas to call down this elemental spirit from heaven and fight it and

45:46You can imagine how silly that would have looked

45:49All these people but what they're trying to you know, and it's all for me

45:53It's all fantasy that none of this is even any real any reality to it

45:58But if it were real what they're essentially trying to do is call down the bad spirits not the good ones

46:04So the whole thing is just so absurd

46:08It does yeah John it reminds me of one

46:11What's a company that has the all the really popular superhero movies?

46:17Marvel's yeah Marvel. It sounds like one of those kind of things doesn't it? Yeah

46:22so

46:23Okay, here's here's something that when I mentioned this

46:27This word people thought no, you really need something else. So so you all so love you of

46:33He had a very big influence on Russian cosmism and people think are you trying to say?

46:40Communism said no

46:42cosmism

46:43speaking of the cosmos

46:45So the first question that comes up is what is cosmism

46:50well from the things that I read about a

46:53Cosmism tried to synthesize Gnostic beliefs with scientific progress

46:59Okay, so so that's a big one of those convergences and from anybody from Jane Lee roll crown quiz

47:08Even Helena Blavatsky they all talk about

47:12These vague kind of ideas that that science and and spirituality will merge and

47:19That this will somehow lead to either the New Age or immortality or heightened psychic abilities

47:26However, they want to phrase it

47:28and so cause

47:30Cosmos and this is kind of a dark and dirty aspect of it

47:35It seeks an alliance between Germany and Russia since both share common roots in

47:42the peoples of

47:44Aryan origin

47:45Okay, so there you go with something that really can tie into the guys and alt-right Christian

47:52identity

47:53and

47:55some of the more so-called

47:58intellectuals of that movement

48:01Like Dugin, Alexander Dugin, they do draw upon these these histories and Dugin being a Russian

48:08he's familiar with

48:10Valentinus and Sophia and

48:13Plato and some of these other ideas about cosmism

48:17and so and it just goes just

48:21It's it's logical just to show the next part here is that

48:26Cosmism shares some of Lede's sources of inspiration and

48:31Remember what she gets gets handed down to the latter rain, at least a lot of it

48:36So for example

48:38Cosmism includes the so-called classic occultist traditions such as Kabbalah

48:45Astrology

48:46Alchemy, etc. Okay, so and like Valentinus and Jane Lede, the Cosmists, here we go

48:54This is a big one, Fyodorovich Fyodorov

48:57I think I got it, said that perfection is possible through union with immortal beings. That probably sounds to you like

49:06Jim Jones and Branham. To me it sounds like also like Jane Lede

49:15And because they're all in the same big happy family even though they alter these words as you say John

49:22The little letters they pull out and the strings they pull for their their propagandist

49:31Presentations of all this stuff

49:33they really cross cross ties and and

49:39Come together in certain respects. I have a theory about that which you probably wouldn't relate to too much John

49:46But it's totally a historical. I know you're very good with the historical research

49:51In my idea

49:53Certain forms of deception are ahistorical and they just essentially follow a line

50:01To denigrate Christ, to pull people away from Christianity

50:06But those ideas exist out there and don't necessarily have to have so-and-so said this to so-and-so and whatever

50:14So I'm sure we can have a nice discussion about that sometime John

50:18Okay, but but here's something that does tie all this Cosmos stuff

50:23back to current-day NAR folks. So similar to the elitism of the NAR and the Third Reich and

50:33The Indian

50:35Nationalists that we discussed last time

50:38Cosmos believed that the transformation of man into Superman will come through

50:46Authoritarianism and physical violence, you know, you mentioned the Marvel comics and it's hard not to

50:53Not to apply that example to this whole thing because you've got the Christian identity in the United States

50:59You've got the Russian thing. You've got the Indian thing and you know, it's it's like the Marvel Universe

51:05But then because of all of these networks

51:07You've got the Marvel Universe and then you've got the DC universe for the DC comics

51:12And I don't know maybe alley-oop from the funny papers

51:15It's all of these different networks and then within the NAR because they're tied to the right wing

51:24pseudo-christian politic thing

51:26Well in within their network, you've got all of the different versions and variations from there

51:31Most of which aren't in full cohesion

51:34so sometimes they'll be completely polar opposite and doctrines but as long as they're part of the network and as long as we're joining to

51:41Fight this imaginary

51:42Queen of Heaven or whatever is the weird thing?

51:44They're fighting at the time as long as you're part of that network

51:47You're okay, and we'll see you as a good people and anybody who opposes us as a villain

51:52We have seeded that propaganda and now I mean think of this

51:57It has reached the level where even Christians in the United States are vilified

52:02because the other Christians who are part of this network they see the

52:07The not the same flavor of Christianity as the villain because of the propaganda

52:13yeah, this is very

52:15unfortunate and

52:17We both see it so much

52:20I'm I'm really thankful for the times. I know you feel this way to John

52:27Other than people who maybe misunderstand what you're doing and you know

52:33Try to try to downgrade whatever your point of view is

52:37You have these folks that are sincere they're hurting they've gone through some form of deception

52:44They're trying to get out of it and they say thank you so much John. Thank you so much Steve for

52:50Bringing these things to light is helping

52:53Me to get out of what I'm doing. It's something unravel some of that stuff

52:57I know John you talked about the years that it took you to

53:00Unravel and kind of get back to the just base of who you are as a person

53:05And what do you think about the Bible about Christ?

53:10For me when I left the the positive confession Word of Faith group that I was in

53:17It took it took a long time

53:19And even when I did go back and read the Bible all that all that loaded language would come back

53:25And I think one of the terms I heard in those in those days was floating

53:30So floating would be like you're kind of back in the mindset of the group and wondering

53:35okay, well the Bible does say that but but what does it really mean and

53:41so

53:42So yeah, I think what do they call that cognitive dissonance? I think that that's a big

53:49problem for people that come out of these groups and I'm just glad that we can

53:53Put in our two cents worth and help folks out. Yeah, I'm glad to and you know

53:59Having gone through it it's easier for me than some of the people who haven't but just to put it into proper perspective

54:06Somebody who has had their identity stolen from them. That's that was me. That's many of the people I work with

54:12well, there comes a point when you have to deconstruct that and

54:16Some of the things that people argue as sin or not sin

54:20Well, there's a point of time in your deconstruction that you really just simply don't care because you have deconstructed all of that

54:26You have nothing you've wiped your complete every every bit of your foundation is gone and you're trying to trying to stack back up

54:34What is my foundation? Who am I? What do I believe?

54:37So my parents were Christian. Why why am I Christian?

54:41Why do I want to be Christian and you have to allow that?

54:44Progression because if you try to push somebody one way or another you may actually push them away from where you're wanting them to head

54:51because you're

54:52You're not doing the right thing

54:54I'll just say it like that

54:54Even the psychologists will tell you don't prophesize people when you want to help them instead show them the way right?

55:02So that's what we try to do here. Everybody's welcome, and I'm glad we can talk through these things and it's just for me

55:09it gets more and more fascinating the further you and I go into the converging apostasy because

55:14Every single aspect of what we talk about on this show

55:17My mind is racing through all of these doctrines and how it applies and I know that all of our listeners are the same way

55:24That's that's why this this is one of the more popular ones that I do

55:27So thank you so much for doing this with me Steve glad to be a part of it, John

55:32Well, if you've enjoyed our show and you want more information, you can check us out on the web

55:36You can find us at William dash Branham org for more information about the dark side of latter rain

55:42You can read weaponized religion from latter rain to colonia dignidad

55:47Available on Amazon Kindle and audible for more about the converging apostasy

55:52You can read the book the converging apostasy and you can also read the book a quick outline of hands-on

55:58eschatology a matter of timing and agency

56:12So

56:42You

Converging Apostasy: Vladimir Solovyov and the NAR - Episode 156 Branham Podcast

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