Joe Manchin Leads Senate Energy Committee Hearing On Pending Department Of Interior Nomination

  • 3 months ago
Sen. Joe Manchin (I-WV) leads a Senate Energy Committee hearing to consider the nomination of Shannon A. Estenoz to be Deputy Secretary of the Interior.

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Transcript
00:00:00I want to thank you for being here and for your service and for your willingness to take on this
00:00:04important task, if confirmed. We also welcome any members of your family, and if you'd like
00:00:09to introduce your, I think this is a very important part of your family, we'd be happy to do that.
00:00:13Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm very grateful to have my husband, Richard Grosso, with me today.
00:00:18Richard, it's good to be with you, and thank you for being here.
00:00:22As Assistant Secretary for Fish and Wildlife and Parks for the past three years,
00:00:25Ms. Esta knows you had the responsibility for the Nation's Park and Wildlife Refuge
00:00:30and the Endangered Species Program. As Deputy Secretary, your responsibility will expand
00:00:34greatly, as you know. The Department of Interior manages 20 percent of the Nation's land,
00:00:39over 700 million acres of subsurface mineral rights, and over 3 billion acres on the outer
00:00:45continental shelf. These lands and waters produce nearly 20 percent of the Nation's energy,
00:00:50including 43 percent of our coal, 27 percent of our oil, 14 percent of our natural gas,
00:00:56and two-thirds of our geothermal energy, and much of our wind, solar, and hydropower.
00:01:01In addition to the parks and refuge you oversee now, the Deputy Secretary also shares responsibility
00:01:07for energy and mineral production, dams and reservoirs and irrigation projects,
00:01:13grazing and timber, insular areas and Indian tribes, abandoned mine lands and wildfires.
00:01:18The Department's mission is two-pronged, requiring both preservation and production,
00:01:22conservation and wise use. The Department does not have the luxury to choose one mission over
00:01:28the other. It must fulfill both and find the right balance between the two.
00:01:32As the Department's Chief Operating Officer, the Deputy Secretary of the Interior must play
00:01:37a major role in striking the right balance and keeping the Department on course for its mission.
00:01:44You have spent the past three years overseeing two of the Department's
00:01:47largest units, which together account for nearly a third of the Department's budget.
00:01:52You're familiar with the Department's mission and the issues facing it. In your current job,
00:01:57you've had a major hand in tackling the deferred maintenance backlog in our national parks
00:02:02and wildlife refugees pursuant to the Great American Outdoors Act, increasing access to
00:02:09outdoor recreation for disadvantaged communities, cleaning up orphan wells in the national parks,
00:02:15and working with the Defense Department on endangered species recovery.
00:02:19You have a reputation for being able to understand complex problems, for being able to work
00:02:23collaboratively with others, for being thoughtful and willing to listen, and for working across the
00:02:27aisle, which I appreciate very much. While my colleagues across the aisle have taken issues
00:02:33on much of what the Department has done throughout this administration, as I have also,
00:02:38and you rightly noted, both the committee and the full Senate were able to approve
00:02:44your previous nomination without controversy on your own merits and on voice votes. So I look
00:02:50forward to hearing from you this morning on your nomination to take on and instill
00:02:55greater responsibilities as the Deputy Secretary. And now I will turn to my friend and my
00:03:01ranking member, Senator Brasso. Well, thanks, Mr. Chairman. Thanks for holding today's hearing.
00:03:05Ms. Esenose, welcome back to the committee. Congratulations on your nomination to the
00:03:09Deputy Secretary of Interior. Over the last three years, you've served as the Assistant
00:03:14Secretary for Fish and Wildlife and Parks. In that position, you oversaw U.S. Fish and
00:03:19Wildlife Service, the National Park Service. These two agencies play a very significant role
00:03:23in my home state of Wyoming, as you're well aware. During your tenure, you've shown a
00:03:28willingness to listen and to learn. You've demonstrated an ability to work across party
00:03:33lines and made a sincere effort to find common ground on many very difficult issues. So I
00:03:38appreciate the collaborative approach that you've taken as the Assistant Secretary.
00:03:43We're here today to examine whether you should be confirmed as the Deputy Secretary of Interior.
00:03:48A person who holds this position has a profound impact on the lives of the people of Wyoming and
00:03:53the Rocky Mountain West. So if confirmed, one of your most important responsibilities will be to
00:03:58oversee energy and mineral development on federal lands. We in Wyoming are proud to be America's
00:04:04leading producer of coal, uranium, trona, bentonite, helium, proud to be a leading producer
00:04:10of oil and natural gas. In Wyoming, most energy and mineral production takes place on federal
00:04:15lands. In fact, almost 50 percent of Wyoming's land and almost 70 percent of Wyoming's minerals
00:04:21are owned by the federal government. Energy and mineral production is the engine of Wyoming's
00:04:26economy. 2021 oil and gas production alone contributed nearly $12 billion to Wyoming's
00:04:32economy. It supported 58,000 jobs in a state where population is only 500,000. For years,
00:04:40the state of Wyoming has collected over a billion dollars annually in royalties and taxes for energy
00:04:46production on federal lands. Wyoming uses this revenue to fund K-12 public education and other
00:04:52essential services. It's imperative that the Department Secretary, Deputy Secretary, understands
00:04:58how the Department impacts the people of Wyoming and the West. For more than three years,
00:05:04Secretary Haaland has laid the groundwork for my state's economic ruin. Absolutely, she's done that.
00:05:10She has canceled two years' worth of oil and gas leases. She has nearly tripled timelines for oil
00:05:15and gas permits. She has put two million acres of existing oil and gas leases on hold. She has
00:05:20raised the cost of operating on federal lands by 20-fold, and she has even refused to deliver
00:05:26leases to the winning bidders from 2020 lease sales. It is now 2024. That's the Secretary of
00:05:34the Department. If that weren't enough, Secretary Haaland now wants to prohibit coal leasing in the
00:05:39Powder River Basin. Last year, the Powder River Basin supplied 45 percent of all coal mined in
00:05:45the United States. It's the single richest source of affordable and reliable energy in the country.
00:05:50The Secretary wants to shut it down. It is an utterly reckless proposal by a completely
00:05:56irresponsible and unfit Secretary of the Interior. Secretary Haaland also wants to ban grazing,
00:06:02energy and mineral development, and recreation on over two million acres of federal land in
00:06:08southwest Wyoming. That is an active proposal by the Secretary of Interior. These lands are not
00:06:15national parks. They're not wildlife refuges. They're not wildlife areas. These are lands that
00:06:20Congress has specifically set aside for productive use, being attacked by the Secretary of the
00:06:28Interior. Time and again, Secretary Haaland has shown a contempt for the law of these United States.
00:06:35She has shown a hostility towards the people of Wyoming, and she has shown an indifference to the
00:06:41energy and the mineral security of our nation. This needs to end. Neither Wyoming nor America can
00:06:47afford another four years of these destructive policies. So I look forward to hearing from you
00:06:53today. More than anything else, I want to know whether you're going to be a voice of reason at
00:06:58the Department, and I hope you will be. I want to know whether you're willing to exercise independent
00:07:03judgment, or whether we should just expect more of the same of what we've gotten from this
00:07:08administration and this Secretary of Interior. So thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
00:07:13So, Ms. Sesno, we welcome you back and your husband with you and your staff, and we'd like to hear
00:07:18from you now with your opening statement. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Barrasso,
00:07:24members of the committee. I am honored to appear before you as President Biden's nominee for
00:07:29Deputy Secretary of the Department of the Interior. I want to thank my husband, Richard,
00:07:34for being here today. I'd also like to say hello to our sons, Nick and Spencer, to my mother,
00:07:40my friends, and extended family who are watching this morning. I was honored in 2021 to have been
00:07:46reported by voice vote by this committee, to have been reported 19 to 1 by the Environment and
00:07:52Public Works Committee, and to have been a little over a month later confirmed by the full Senate
00:07:56by unanimous consent. It has been the greatest honor of my professional career
00:08:01to serve in this role for almost three years. I am a fifth-generation Floridian,
00:08:07born, as were all of my grandparents, in Key West, where I grew up on the water,
00:08:12swimming, fishing, snorkeling, and boating. I, like my late father, am a civil engineer.
00:08:19For the first 10 years of my life, his career took him, us, to oil platforms off the coast of
00:08:24Louisiana, the Tennessee Valley Authority in Knoxville, the Army Corps of Engineers in Kansas
00:08:30City, and finally back home to Key West. I spent my own career in the Everglades, wearing many hats
00:08:37over many years, working on the world's largest hydrologic ecosystem restoration program.
00:08:43The vast majority of my 29-year career has been spent on the ground in my big and complicated
00:08:50state of Florida. I have been a stakeholder, a state water manager, an appointee of both
00:08:58Democratic and Republican governors of Florida, and for more than seven years,
00:09:02the director of Everglades Restoration at the Department of the Interior. In my career,
00:09:08I have spent thousands of hours, thousands of hours, as I know all of you have, engaging on
00:09:14issues like these in community centers, private kitchens, under live oak trees, at boat docks,
00:09:21and on tree islands. Because in a big, diverse state like Florida, where most of the land is
00:09:27privately owned, and where ranching and farming and mining are adjacent to huge metro areas,
00:09:34the only way to get anything done is to talk to everyone. Not because you think you can get
00:09:39everyone to agree, but because understanding diverse perspectives always drives better
00:09:45decision making. Since 2021, as the assistant secretary, I've overseen two of the department's
00:09:50larger bureaus, the National Park Service and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, as they steward
00:09:55the nation's most iconic places and important history, work with communities to protect and
00:10:00promote the recovery of imperiled species, and implement some of the most important environmental
00:10:05laws enacted by Congress. I have also had the pleasure of working with many of you on issues
00:10:11in your home states and that affect national parks, wildlife refuges, species, industry,
00:10:17resources, and livelihoods across the country. To put Congress's landmark investments to work for
00:10:22the benefit of the American people, the Great American Outdoors Act, the Land and Water
00:10:26Conservation Fund, the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, and the Inflation Reduction Act, I have
00:10:31worked with offices and bureaus within the department and their subject matter experts,
00:10:35scientists, resource managers, and leaders, in addition to communities, stakeholders, and
00:10:40philanthropic sectors across the nation. We marked the 50th anniversary of the Endangered Species Act
00:10:46with a call to action to focus more partnership energy on species recovery and listing prevention.
00:10:53We have downlisted or delisted more than 30 species due to improvement or recovery. We have
00:10:59strengthened existing partnerships and built new ones so that today the U.S. Fish and Wildlife
00:11:04Service counts the Department of Defense and the National Alliance of Forest Owners among its most
00:11:10valued partners in species recovery. Having worked as a leader in the department for almost 11 years,
00:11:17first as a career senior executive and now as a policy official, I understand the responsibilities
00:11:24of the Deputy Secretary and the weight of the decisions that office must make.
00:11:29In essence, the portfolio of the Deputy Secretary is the portfolio of the department. I have been
00:11:35on the front lines of resource management for almost 30 years, delivering consensus-based
00:11:40solutions to often very difficult problems. In that time, I have learned that people and
00:11:46communities are more similar than they are different, and without fail, every issue I
00:11:51have ever worked on has first and foremost been a people and community issue. At the department,
00:11:58I know that there are many difficult issues, a few very long-running, and we continue to work
00:12:03our way through them. In 2021, I pledged to this committee that as Assistant Secretary,
00:12:10I would use the tools that have served me best in my career, communication, transparency,
00:12:16and intellectual honesty. If I am confirmed as the next Deputy Secretary of the Department of
00:12:21the Interior, I will continue to honor this pledge. Thank you for the opportunity to appear
00:12:26before you, and I look forward to your questions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:12:29Thank you for your statement. I skipped over a very important part of this hearing, and I'm going
00:12:34to ask you three questions now for you to answer. Will you be available to appear before this
00:12:37committee and other congressional committees to represent the departmental positions and respond
00:12:42to issues of concern to the Congress? Yes. Are you aware of any personal holdings,
00:12:47investments, or interests that could constitute a conflict of interest or create the appearance
00:12:51of such a conflict should you be confirmed and assume the office to which you have been
00:12:55nominated by the President? No. Are you involved, or do you have any assets held in a blind trust?
00:13:00No. Thank you. Now we'll start our questions.
00:13:03My first question is going to be basically on energy, and this is the name of this committee,
00:13:08Energy and Natural Resources. Right now, we are pretty much independent as far as the United
00:13:13States of America. We're producing more energy than ever in the history of our country. We're
00:13:17number one in the world in production. We've done that, an all-in policy. My aspiration with the
00:13:26administration is how they're implementing some of the laws and rules that we passed here,
00:13:31and we have to fight continuously, and companies have been damaged or suing, and they will win
00:13:38because they're outside of the window of the legislation, the intent of the legislation.
00:13:45My thing is this. We have produced more gas, oil, solar, storage, everything that we've done,
00:13:53but it can't happen for us to be independent unless we start mining our own critical minerals,
00:13:58unless we're able to get leases on lands that we basically know have plentiful resources that we
00:14:04should be extracting as we transition. That's the hard problem that we have here, and the
00:14:09administration has not listened or have not been willing to listen, and the Ukraine war made it all
00:14:15so evident that the United States of America must be this leader and should be the leader,
00:14:20and they're depending on it in the rest of the world. Do you believe it's in our best
00:14:23interest to improve our energy independence?
00:14:25Yes, I do, Mr. Chairman. American energy is good. American energy independence is critical
00:14:33as we address the climate crisis, and it's important as we address the climate crisis
00:14:38and attempt to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. It's important as we seek to secure affordability
00:14:44and reliability for the American people, and it's important for our national security.
00:14:49Do you believe there should be a pause on any of the federal leasing as far as lands for
00:14:53coal and gas and oil and critical minerals?
00:14:57Well, Senator, I think it's critically important that, as you mentioned, as we pursue our
00:15:03transition to a clean energy economy, that we know that we are going to continue oil and gas leasing.
00:15:10We know that, according to the Energy Information Agency, currently our consumption is something
00:15:16like 83 percent is non-renewable, and renewables are increasing, and that's a good thing, and we
00:15:23need to continue that. But we know that oil and gas and coal are going to be part of our energy
00:15:29mix for some time to come, and it's really this conversation about what is the mix and how do we
00:15:35conduct the transition.
00:15:36Do you feel comfortable in basically speaking truth to power to your superiors that you answer
00:15:40to when they're going a different direction and you know it's not within the laws or what should
00:15:44be done, the leasing that we should be doing and handling, and basically we're not, we're
00:15:48having, we're fighting for every lease we have offshore in the Gulf, we're fighting for every
00:15:52lease onshore. I'm sure you're going to hear from my friend here pretty quickly about the
00:15:57unbelievable roadblocks have been put up. It makes no sense at all. So we need somebody to say this
00:16:02is the facts, this is the law, we should be following it.
00:16:05So, Senator, and I might repeat this a little bit this morning, but I recognize how important it
00:16:13will be for me to earn the confidence and trust of inside the administration, particularly on
00:16:19energy and public lands issues, but also from the members of this committee. And I will tell
00:16:24you that in my 30-year career in Florida, I have never shied away from sharing my opinion, but I
00:16:31know that being effective in that regard means being a credible person and a thoughtful person
00:16:38and a careful person about the knowledge that you're imparting. And so, the short answer is
00:16:46yes. I think the administration and I think all of you deserve me, if I'm confirmed as Deputy
00:16:53Secretary, to speak frankly and truthfully. Well, we appreciate that. We all want you to
00:16:58succeed. We really do. Thank you. We want you to be up front and honest with us too. Thank you.
00:17:01According to the Council on Environmental Quality from 2010 to 2018, Interior's environmental impact
00:17:06statements averaged five years to get to a record of decision, five years to just make a decision,
00:17:13which is absolutely horrible. The problem of all types of energy, including those this
00:17:17administration wants to transition to. I'll give you an example. According to the 2023 study,
00:17:22Stanford University, two-thirds of all solar projects requiring an environmental impact
00:17:27statement are litigated and half of all renewable projects are canceled, more than any other type
00:17:33of energy project. So, it doesn't behoove anybody for an agency not to be efficient in giving us
00:17:40some results quickly, giving us some direction and making sure that we can follow through.
00:17:46Yes. So, Senator, it's interesting. I've been on both sides of NEPA. I've been,
00:17:52as I have, Fish and Wildlife Service permitting. Do you believe permitting right now is hindering
00:17:59all of us? Well, what I would say is that I think there's a lot to be done on permitting. So,
00:18:03first, let me say about the National Environmental Policy Act. It's a very important body of law. We
00:18:08know that NEPA is an important part of making sure that projects, that we're able to initiate
00:18:15projects and protect important resources in the process. But we also know that NEPA takes longer,
00:18:23often, than any of us want it to take or that it should take. So, the administration has
00:18:29promulgated some new regulations with respect to NEPA. I think this is particularly important as we
00:18:38try to deploy renewable energy. We had some NEPA, basically, in the FRA that went with our
00:18:43agreement on the finances and debt. That's right. But they have backtracked on that.
00:18:50Well, Senator, I think my feeling about permitting and NEPA, these are big topics.
00:18:55So, I've been a customer of permitting programs before, and I've spent a lot of time talking to
00:19:03the regulated industry and folks who are coming to us with permit requests. And what I've sort
00:19:10of distilled down, what are the pillars of customer service when it comes to permitting?
00:19:15And it feels to me like, you know, projects need consistency, they need transparency,
00:19:22they need predictability, and they need timeliness. And these pillars, if we can drive
00:19:27our permitting toward these pillars of what I call customer service and think about the permitted,
00:19:32the regulated community as our customers, and then we can act. And I'm sure we'll talk.
00:19:37Yeah.
00:19:37I'm so sorry. I'm going to cut you short because I'm way over my time.
00:19:40I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.
00:19:40No, no, it's not your fault.
00:19:41We'll talk more about it.
00:19:42We will. I know that. And I'll turn to my senator.
00:19:44Yes, sir. Sorry.
00:19:46Thanks. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I wanted to start with something you talked about early in your
00:19:49testimony, endangered species list, recovery, and delisting. You know, the greater Yellowstone
00:19:56ecosystem population of grizzly bears...
00:19:58Yes, sir.
00:19:58...fully recovered for 20 years. I understand why they went on the list initially,
00:20:02down to 100, now well over 1,000, spread way beyond the area that people were hoping they
00:20:08would stay and that we knew that they were not going to stay as they continued to grow.
00:20:11Grizzly bears are still listed as threatened under the ESA, number of bears far greater
00:20:18than the number required for delisting by the Fish and Wildlife Service.
00:20:21Yes, sir.
00:20:22Wyoming has played an important role as a state in leading this recovery. So,
00:20:27as assistant secretary, you'll have the authority over Fish and Wildlife Services.
00:20:30When can we expect the service to delist the grizzly bear?
00:20:33Thank you so much for this great question. And if Mr. Danes joins us later, I think we'll get it
00:20:38again. It's such a good one. So, first of all, let me agree with you, Senator Barrasso, and
00:20:44congratulate Wyoming and everyone who's been working on bears for all these years,
00:20:49that the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem Recovery Management Area population has met its recovery
00:20:57criteria. You are absolutely right. It's met and exceeded its recovery criteria. And that's
00:21:01fantastic news. And it's not just Greater Yellowstone, by the way, it's also Northern
00:21:04Continental Divide has met its recovery criteria, too. So, what does that tell us? It tells us bears
00:21:09are doing really well in important parts, and particularly in Wyoming and Montana.
00:21:16There is a petition before us. Wyoming has petitioned us to delist the Greater Yellowstone.
00:21:20They've asked us to find the population, a distinct population segment. And so, that is the
00:21:26sort of arcane part of the law that we're trying to work through. Congress has asked us to use that
00:21:31designation sparingly. And so, and we're also looking at our delisting criteria. So, what I
00:21:38would say to you, Senator, is that with the ESA, the question is delist, list. It's also the path
00:21:47you take to get to that decision matters when it comes to whether or not a court will overturn it
00:21:52or not, or sustain it. And so, it's really the path that we're working through, the path that
00:21:57Wyoming has asked us to follow. So, I appreciate the question. And what I want to say to you is,
00:22:02regardless of the outcome of my nomination, I will continue to work with Wyoming on that
00:22:06particular issue. In August of last year, BLM issued a draft resource management plan for the
00:22:13Rock Springs field office. This plan would block, severely restrict access to over three and a half
00:22:19million acres of federal land in southwest Wyoming. If finalized, the plan would devastate
00:22:24the livelihoods of the people and the communities in my state. The governor, the congressional
00:22:28delegation, state legislature, county commissioners, across the board, everyone strongly opposes what
00:22:35the secretary has come out with. So far, the department has done little to address any of our
00:22:40concerns. If confirmed, you know, what would you do differently? Yeah. So, thank you, Senator.
00:22:47So, you're right. It's a BLM RMP process, and I'm not involved in those processes,
00:22:53but I am very much aware of Rock Springs. I'm very much aware of the concern in Wyoming and
00:22:59the engagement in Wyoming and how important it is. As a plan, it covers quite a large area. You're
00:23:04absolutely right. I also understand and am very grateful, just on behalf of the department, for the
00:23:10incredibly constructive input that folks in Wyoming have provided, in particular,
00:23:14particularly grateful to the governor for his leadership in really facilitating that input.
00:23:20I have heard both the secretary and the BLM director say to this committee that when the
00:23:25final plan comes out that we expect that that input to be reflected in that final plan. If I'm
00:23:30confirmed, Senator, depending on where the plan is, you know, I would welcome if you think it's
00:23:36important and if I'm invited to come to Wyoming and talk to folks about how they're feeling about
00:23:41the plan. Well, we'd love to have you. Well, final question. So, in May, the Bureau of Land Management
00:23:45took steps to prohibit coal leasing in the Powder River Basin. Last year, the Powder River Basin,
00:23:51about 45 percent of all the coal mined and used in the United States. Ms. Stone-Manning has said
00:23:58that existing leases will be able to meet our coal demand in the future. I doubt that. She's
00:24:03capable of assessing our future coal demand. I don't think she's capable of doing an objective
00:24:09decision on this. Where do you stand on future leasing? So, thank you, Senator. So, yes, I'm
00:24:17familiar with Powder River Basin, growing increasingly familiar and in preparation for
00:24:22this committee hearing. And, yes, coal, even as demand for coal falls, it is still part of the
00:24:29energy mix, particularly, almost exclusively in the important sector of electricity generation,
00:24:36and I understand that. If I'm confirmed as Deputy Secretary, I would seek to understand
00:24:41at the appropriate level, at the deepest level, this argument about sort of, you know, unused leasing.
00:24:48That's the question, you know, should the Department end new leasing in the Powder River
00:24:52Basin? That's the fundamental question. Right. And, yeah, well, so, you know, I think if I'm
00:24:57confirmed, I'd need to understand the issue better, Senator, particularly as it relates
00:25:02to the debate you've just said, which is we have a lot of capacity in existing leases, and whether
00:25:07or not, you know, we believe that that existing capacity is adequate. You disagree. I would,
00:25:13as a Deputy Secretary, I would come to understand that debate better. Thank you.
00:25:17Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That's a tough one, because we're concerned about the administration
00:25:24not following the laws. Basically, the land and the resources belong to all of us, and we need that,
00:25:31and we need to have a pathway forward, and these are long-term propositions and investments.
00:25:36People aren't making them now if they don't have leasing to go on. Mining operations can't start
00:25:40and stop like any other. They have to continue on. If not, you're going to basically throw them
00:25:44all. With that, we turn to Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am actually going to
00:25:48yield my line in the queue here to my esteemed colleague from Colorado who has to preside
00:25:56relatively quickly over the Senate. That's very kind of you. Senator Hickenlooper.
00:25:59I appreciate that. Thank you, Senator. You know that, don't you?
00:26:03I do. Trust me. I'm fully aware. And, Mr. Stenos, thank you so much for your service.
00:26:10I want the record to show that there are few people that work in the federal government who
00:26:15I hear Republicans and Democrats both praising from the time when she was working in nonprofits
00:26:22and in her years of public service. So, we're grateful for all your public service and for
00:26:26taking on this new challenge. Thank you, Senator.
00:26:28I want to talk a moment about water, and it's hard to shift right to water because
00:26:33you talked about the Yellowstone Basin area where I did my research when I was a geologist
00:26:40and then the Powder River Basin, which, of course, in politics in Wyoming is famous for
00:26:46political opponents accusing each other of being just like the Powder River,
00:26:50a mile wide and an inch deep. It's a famous political jargon out there.
00:26:56The Colorado River is at a critical point. After decades of drought and aridification in the basin,
00:27:04state and water officials are working assiduously to envision long-term water management
00:27:11for the river after the current operational guidelines expire in 2026.
00:27:18You have a wealth of experience in water management in your time in South Florida,
00:27:23particularly with respect to the Everglades, that river of grass, as Marjorie Stoneman Douglas once
00:27:30put it. You're someone who knows rivers, understands water and water management.
00:27:36You know how important it is to reply or to rely on state and locally led solutions to
00:27:44where the rubber meets the road for confronting these challenges.
00:27:48When you look at the challenges we face in the Colorado River Basin,
00:27:52how do you see the path forward? What's your perspective?
00:27:56Thank you, Senator. Let me first say how proud I think all of us should be, everyone should be,
00:28:03for the tremendous work to stave off a crisis in the Colorado River Basin in the face of
00:28:12record drought. The reason I credit everyone is because the place that we find ourselves now
00:28:21was really the outcome of bringing everyone together, the seven basin states, the
00:28:25tribes, and in particular giving the tribes a meaningful seat at the table
00:28:31to reach a consensus in this interim period. What I would say is my outlook post-2026 is really good
00:28:38because we've sort of demonstrated to ourselves that we can do it and we've got the capacity now,
00:28:44the developing additional muscle memory for that. I think what we learned in Florida
00:28:50is that the only path forward on water is a path we travel together. There is no other way
00:28:58to manage water for the future than to bring everyone to the table and to try to find a
00:29:02consensus way forward. That is my 30 years of experience on water management. I feel particularly
00:29:08fortunate that we have Commissioner Tootin at the table. She seems to me to have been a truly
00:29:15positive force in the Colorado River. What I would say to you even in my current position,
00:29:21I have some interest on the Colorado River in my current portfolio. What I would say is that I'm
00:29:25very optimistic for our post-2026 future. I share your admiration of Camille Tootin. She's appeared
00:29:32here a couple of times herself and has done a remarkable job of both providing the leadership
00:29:37but also the technical background, which I think you bring the same elements to the table.
00:29:43In Colorado, there's now an option to add a state park pass. We call it the Keep Colorado Wild
00:29:52Pass right on your annual car registration when you re-register your car. In the first year of
00:29:58using this model, the state has secured over 1.5 million pass holders, over 40 million dollars in
00:30:04revenue that goes directly to benefit parks, wildlife, search and rescue efforts. It also
00:30:11demonstrates the appeal and the demand for outdoor recreation in Colorado. We're lucky to have some
00:30:18of the best opportunities around, but recognizing that these opportunities are literally all across
00:30:22the country, as you know well. How is the Department of Interior collaborating with state
00:30:27agencies, including state offices of outdoor recreation, to ensure continued innovation
00:30:32as the demand for recreation on state and federal lands continues to grow?
00:30:37Thank you, Senator. It's such a good and important question. I come from a state where we like to be
00:30:42outside a lot and recreate, and I appreciate very much Colorado's model. I hadn't heard about the
00:30:48state pass associated with your car registration. The Department of the Interior's one of our very
00:30:53important missions, both on our public lands, our BLM lands, and their multi-use purposes,
00:30:58and of course the National Park Service, is recreation. It's people come, that's why they
00:31:03come. And so we're working on a number in the Park Service, we're working on a number of
00:31:07innovations, including apps that, you know, help folks plan their trips, help folks understand
00:31:13ahead of time, trying to think of ourselves as a recreation and tourism organization, and
00:31:20understand how people plan their visits to places like national parks. They tend to plan ahead of
00:31:25time, it's kind of the modern way we travel now, and so that's a big part of it. It's a, we're
00:31:30trying very hard to encourage visitors to seek more than just the top 50 visited parks, and
00:31:38recognize that we have recreational opportunities not only in the rest of the park system, but that
00:31:43often parks, to your point, to visit a national park could also be to visit a beautiful state park,
00:31:49or a county park. And so really partnering with local governments and states to figure out how
00:31:54can we leverage each other's recreational opportunities for the benefit of the American
00:31:58public. That's exactly the right attitude. Great, thank you. I yield back. Thank you so much. Thank you, Senator.
00:32:05Thank you. Assistant Secretary, welcome. Great to see you. Thank you for visiting with me in my office.
00:32:11I'm going to just get right to the heart of it. I appreciate your comments so far. I think this,
00:32:18you've got a great reputation so far. I think this committee is going to test it.
00:32:22One thing that you should know is that for Westerners, we are aligned on a lot of the issues.
00:32:28In the party politics, it stops at the state line. We have a lot of issues in common. One of them
00:32:34being this, and I'm going to talk to you about it. Most of the land is owned by the federal government
00:32:38in the West. In Nevada, it's over 80 percent. In some of my counties, it's over 90 percent.
00:32:42So it requires a great partnership. One of the things I've asked the
00:32:46Secretary, and many working with her, is to do just this. Nevada needs a statewide resource plan.
00:32:54Working with the federal government on how we are going to manage all those lands in conjunction
00:32:58with state needs, our local government needs, and our private sector needs, as well as our
00:33:02conservation needs. The challenge I have is because you own so much of the land, we're also
00:33:08getting all these federal rules coming through requiring different things, and nothing is working
00:33:14together. I need a state resource plan. It will probably be the first ever done by a state, but
00:33:19that's what I'm looking for. So I'm hoping you're helping us get to that point. That will help
00:33:24people in my state manage not just renewable energy, but so many other things that we need
00:33:29to manage throughout the state of Nevada in conjunction with the partnership with the
00:33:32federal government. Are you willing to work with me? Absolutely, Senator. I will tell you in my
00:33:36career, when I engage with community and with stakeholders, the thing that is universally
00:33:43frustrating for them is inconsistency in government, is when they feel like they're
00:33:49getting the runaround, or they feel like rules apply to this here, but then they're different
00:33:54over here. So to the extent that we can address some of that and fix it in a statewide
00:34:01plan, absolutely. If I'm confirmed as Deputy Secretary, I really look forward to working with
00:34:06you and ensuring that we're working together. Thank you. And let me mention,
00:34:11in Nevada, people don't even realize this, there are 28 federally recognized tribes,
00:34:16and so part of that conversation is bringing them in, making sure there's tribal consultation,
00:34:20and we're all working together. The stakeholders are all around the table, like you said.
00:34:24That's what you've been so focused on throughout your career, and I appreciate that. Thank you.
00:34:28I'm going to focus on a couple of things that I need your help with in Nevada.
00:34:32When BLM Director Tracey Stone Manning was before our committee last month, I talked to her
00:34:36how I recently pressed the Department of Housing and Urban Development and the Department of
00:34:42Interior to update regulations that allow federal land in Nevada to be eligible for
00:34:48affordable housing projects. Affordable housing is necessary. In fact, the BLM Director signed
00:34:54a new agreement last August to make eligible public lands available for $100 an acre,
00:34:59and that's far below the fair market value for the construction of these lands. We urgently need
00:35:05you to be at the top of this and pushing this and making this happen in our state. So I'm hoping I
00:35:10can get your commitment to work with us to make sure that we move forward in identifying this
00:35:15federal land for affordable housing. Senator, you are touching on an issue
00:35:19that is at the front of mind for me in my current role, and if I'm confirmed as Deputy Secretary,
00:35:25I do commit to working with you on this. Employee housing and affordable housing,
00:35:32in particular, but our nexus to affordable housing, we see it with our own employees
00:35:37who have a hard time affording to live in these areas. So yes, Senator, I look forward to working
00:35:44with you. I'm going to ask for another commitment. So just recently, we have the Shoshone Paiute
00:35:49Tribe of Duck Valley Reservation. They are on the border of Nevada and Idaho. They're in both.
00:35:55They have a school that they've had for years that was on federal land that the BLM had access
00:36:01to, excuse me, the BIA had access to and control over. Over the years, we've discovered that the
00:36:07BIA improperly disposed of fuels and pesticides on that land and has contaminated it. The state
00:36:13of Nevada has come in and said, we're going to move your school to protect our kids,
00:36:17but there's no remediation by the federal government. I need your help in making sure
00:36:22that happens. I've talked to the secretary about making sure that happens, making sure that we get
00:36:26commitments. There's been commitments, but failed dates of commitment happening. So I need somebody
00:36:32from the federal government that's going to be our partner, and I invite you to come. I was just
00:36:36there for a high school graduation. I invite you to come out to the reservation to see for yourself.
00:36:41So I hope I can get that commitment for you. Thank you, Senator. And yes, this is a new issue
00:36:45for me. If I'm confirmed as deputy secretary, I absolutely commit to working with you on it.
00:36:49And then finally, again, we have a community, Ash Meadows National Wildlife Refuge and Death
00:36:56Valley National Park. You know it, Death Valley National Park, I hope so, in Nye County, right?
00:37:02So I toured this area. I know it well. Grew up in southern Nevada. There is a challenge we have
00:37:08there that we're trying to protect this land and the devil's pupfish out of that area from any type
00:37:18of mining and mineral that is going to, in mineral drilling, that's going to impact the groundwater
00:37:24that our tribes rely on, that the local community relies on. And so there's been a letter that I've
00:37:29sent to Secretary Haaland requesting the department to commence a 20-year mineral withdrawal of
00:37:33sensitive areas in that area, in that watershed. Everybody in my community, everybody in that
00:37:39community supports this, from the county to the tribes to everyone else. And so I just need a
00:37:45commitment that you're going to work with us to address and protect the sensitive land.
00:37:49Senator, I will commit to working with you and understanding this issue better.
00:37:53Whether I am confirmed as deputy secretary or not, this is something that is obviously in my
00:37:58current portfolio. So happy to commit to learning more and working with you.
00:38:02Thank you. Congratulations again. Welcome to your husband and your family that's listening as well.
00:38:07Thank you.
00:38:08Thank you, Senator.
00:38:08Thank you. Senator Murkowski.
00:38:10Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and good morning.
00:38:12Good morning.
00:38:13Ms. Estenos, welcome back to the committee, and thank you for the time that you gave me
00:38:17and my team yesterday. I appreciate that. It was a good opportunity to speak directly with you
00:38:23about the many decisions, really the torrent of decisions that we've seen out of the department,
00:38:29which have effectively restricted access and that simply prevent development within
00:38:36the state of Alaska. These decisions have a major impact on a state where more than 200
00:38:43million acres of land are managed by the Department of Interior. They impact our jobs,
00:38:49they impact our economy, really our ability to function as a state, both now and then
00:38:56into the future. But really of late, and it seems like things have just accelerated the closer we
00:39:03get to an election time, but it seems like the department is acting more like an environmental
00:39:10activist rather than a land manager, failing to recognize that we're a state where people live
00:39:17there, we work there, we protect the lands there like nobody else can or will. We've kind of reached
00:39:24the point where we dread Friday. We dread Friday afternoon because that's when the administration
00:39:32has seemingly been dropping these decisions with no notice, and that was something that you and I
00:39:40discussed yesterday. No notice to the congressional delegation on issues that are specific and unique
00:39:47to one state alone. So whether it was the rejection of the Ambler Project, keeping 28 million acres
00:39:56locked down in public land orders, the PLOs, transforming our petroleum reserve from a place
00:40:02for energy production to effectively a de facto wilderness, or the looming evisceration of the
00:40:10coastal plain oil and gas program that we expect later this month. But you take into account all
00:40:15of these actions and many more, and it's not hard to see why so many Alaskans are disappointed,
00:40:23they're frustrated, they're angry with the administration's policy. And the sense that we
00:40:30have, and that I hear directly from so many, is that we're being treated like one big park. Everybody
00:40:36wants to come and see Alaska, but they want the jobs for Alaskans to basically be carrying the
00:40:43bags of the tourists rather than good, honest, year-round jobs where we're able to access our
00:40:50resources and provide not only for the benefit of our citizens but of the country. But we're losing,
00:40:57we're losing the access to our lands. Instead of recognizing our very strong history of responsible
00:41:03development, the administration seems to hold it against us. I think the administration is
00:41:09rejecting some of our country's best opportunities for access, whether it's for critical minerals,
00:41:16other resources. And so we see this, and then on the other hand we see countries like Russia,
00:41:23like Iran, like Venezuela being almost rewarded effectively for the use of their resources.
00:41:32They look the other way when it comes to human rights and environmental abuses. You look to
00:41:38Mozambique, you look to Congo, you look to China. And so we've got this, we've just got this contrast
00:41:43that just makes no sense to the average Alaskan. And a point that I shared with you,
00:41:52and I feel really strongly about, the department is not keeping their commitment to us, but they're
00:42:00not keeping their commitment to the law. They're just not keeping the commitment to the law. The
00:42:06latest example being the process to lift PLO 5150 that was abruptly canceled. We're not trusting
00:42:13Interior to follow the law when it comes to consultation with Alaska Natives or the state
00:42:18of Alaska in making these decisions. So you're in a tough spot here. I grant you that. It's the
00:42:26administration's policies that I think have kind of stacked the deck against you as a nominee.
00:42:33And I understand that, but I also need you to understand where Alaskans are coming from when
00:42:40they look at this administration, when they look at the Department of Interior, and they see
00:42:45how this heavy hand is coming down on us. So I've got one question for you, and I need you to know
00:42:54that I can't vote to confirm you if I get the sense that you think everything's going okay
00:43:02in Alaska, and that you would just simply continue the department's, just the continuation
00:43:10of the heavy handedness coming out of the department that is effectively shutting down
00:43:17the state. So the question to you is, why should I support your nomination?
00:43:25Senator, first of all, let me thank you for the time you gave me yesterday.
00:43:29I appreciate it, too. I really did. I really was so grateful, not only for the time, but for the
00:43:35frankness, which is continuing now, which I actually appreciate so much. I went home last
00:43:41night. I thought about our conversation throughout the night. I woke up in the middle of the night.
00:43:46I thought about our conversation some more. And that's the kind of frank conversation that I
00:43:53really appreciate. So what we talked about yesterday, and what I said earlier, right before
00:44:01you came into the room, is that I know that I will have to earn both the trust and confidence
00:44:10of everyone, both inside the administration and on this dais. And what all I can bring to this
00:44:17conversation today, and all I can say to you today, all I can do is compare myself to myself,
00:44:24which is to my 30-year career and the way that I've worked until this point. I do have, we
00:44:34have worked with you in my current portfolio. And I, we talked a little bit about yesterday. I feel
00:44:41like we've tried very, very hard to go to Alaska. And I've been to, you know, I've been to Alaska in
00:44:48this job. And I went specifically to listen. And we've tried to do that. We've tried to think
00:44:55transformatively. I've spent a lot of times, as I mentioned to you yesterday, I began during the
00:45:02presidential transition, even before I was in this job, learning about Alaska, trying to understand
00:45:07Alaska, because it is so, it is such a different place. It's such a special place. I mean, the,
00:45:12just the statutory framework is completely different. And as I mentioned to you, Senator
00:45:16Sullivan said to me early on, you need to take ANILCA training. And by golly, I took ANILCA
00:45:20training. And he was right. So what I want you to know is that, and I'll say this a couple more
00:45:30times, is that, you know, I, my career is what it's been, but my life is also, but my personal life is
00:45:38also a factor here. You know, I know because I was a part of an energy dependent family. My father
00:45:45was in the energy industry when we lived in Louisiana. We were a young family and we,
00:45:51our income depended on, you know, on oil and gas in the Gulf. So I understand that,
00:46:02as I said in my opening statement, that every issue we work on, whether it's a species issue
00:46:06or an energy issue, it's really a people issue. And that's what I would bring to the deputy
00:46:12secretary's job. I, I know that, that I, my resume, you know, I haven't worked in energy
00:46:23and public lands, but I know the department really well. I've been a senior leader at the
00:46:28department for 11 years. I know how it works. In my current portfolio, I have intersected with
00:46:33energy. I have intersected with public lands. And I have a strong leadership style, Senator,
00:46:41that is relation, it's, it's a combination. The engineer in me drives me toward knowledge, data,
00:46:47understanding issues very, very well and very deeply so that my decisions can be thoughtful.
00:46:55The personality part of me is that my leadership is relationship based.
00:46:59That means having a strong relationship with, with you and with your team and with the Alaska
00:47:07delegation. That, that is what I can assure you that I will bring to the deputy secretary job
00:47:13because I don't have any other way to work. I don't know any other way to work. So.
00:47:19Thank you.
00:47:20Thank you.
00:47:20That's my answer.
00:47:21Thank you very much. I appreciate it.
00:47:26As, as to those, I think what we're trying to tell you is that we believe that basically
00:47:29government should be our partner.
00:47:31Yes.
00:47:31Not our provider and not our decider, which is what they've decided to do. And that's why some
00:47:37of us who come from energy rich states who basically fueled this country, but like we're
00:47:41getting left behind or basically not needed anymore and don't understand, understand. So
00:47:45what we're asking for is that partnership when you come in this position. So with that, we'll go
00:47:49right to Senator King.
00:47:51I know the Senator from the grizzly bears is part of the dais.
00:47:56You're ready for, you're all teed up for grizzly bears.
00:47:59We'll be disappointed if we don't learn something about grizzly bears here today.
00:48:03Mr. Chairman, I want to, I want to address Senator Murkowski's question and hopefully
00:48:09make you feel better about this nominee based upon personal experience. About a year and a
00:48:14half ago, the U S fish and wildlife service proposed a large wildlife refuge area in
00:48:20Western Maine. It happens to be an area of the state that's of incredible scenic and
00:48:25recreational value. It also is an area that has had tremendous local conservation efforts.
00:48:33The communities, the private sector have done enormous amounts of conservation, setting
00:48:37land aside. The communities contacted this nominee. I contacted her, others in the
00:48:45delegation, and she listened and she listened to the communities and she listened to the
00:48:50concerns and she weighed the facts and made a decision that this area did not need a
00:48:55wildlife refuge because it was already in many ways in a protected status. That's what
00:49:01I look for in a person in a position like this, someone who will pay attention to local
00:49:06concerns and listen. So I wanted to thank you for that. And I think it speaks well of
00:49:12your approach. And I think the chairman put it well, we should be partners here, not
00:49:18adversaries. And we should try to find solutions to problems that are mutually beneficial.
00:49:24A couple of other points. Five-year EISs, that should be history. I never want to hear about
00:49:31a five-year EIS. This committee has heard me say this numerous times. A month ago, we had
00:49:36the anniversary of D-Day. Eisenhower retook Europe in 11 months. To me, that's the standard
00:49:43for how long things should take. And a five-year EIS is just a disservice to the process and to
00:49:52the citizens of the country. Secondly, on the issue of permitting,
00:49:58we need permitting reform and the expediting of permitting in order to achieve a clean
00:50:04energy future. We're going to have to expand the grid substantially because of new demands
00:50:09of electrification in our society. And we can't hold up important, meaningful transmission
00:50:18projects or mining of critical minerals to supply EV batteries with a cumbersome, slow
00:50:28war of attrition in permitting. So I think we need to be, we've always thought of permitting
00:50:35as a sort of a stopping process. We have to see it now. There may be environmental detriment,
00:50:42but there may be enormous environmental benefit. And I think that has to be part of the calculation.
00:50:48Finally, I'm worried about deferred maintenance on our public lands and our parks.
00:50:56Four years ago, we passed the Great American Outdoors Act. It was virtually,
00:51:01unanimously supported by this committee, historic legislation to pay for or pay down
00:51:07the backlog of maintenance. But the problem is the department and the administration is not
00:51:14funding maintenance adequately, and we're digging the hole again. Can you commit to me that you'll
00:51:19advocate for adequate funding for maintenance of our national parks and public lands?
00:51:26It's a sort of a mundane subject, but we can't, we're not going to be able to pass a Great American
00:51:31Outdoors Act every five years and convince our colleagues that this is necessary when, in fact,
00:51:40the system is somehow expecting it and therefore not providing the maintenance on an annual basis
00:51:46that's necessary. So talk to me about that issue, please. Yes, thank you, Senator. And let me just
00:51:52first just say thank you very much. It was a pleasure to work with you on the proposed refuge,
00:51:59and I'm really glad we got to a great place. And I'm grateful that you picked up the phone and
00:52:05called me, and we were able to work together. Which I will continue to do. Please do. I'm sure
00:52:11you will, and I welcome it. And because both Senator Manchin and you mentioned the word
00:52:17partnership, I appreciate that word very much. The entire time that I've been at Interior,
00:52:24this approach as partner, and in my case, it's been state tribes, local governments,
00:52:32and stakeholder groups, very well organized stakeholder groups. And as I said earlier in
00:52:39my remarks, I've found it's the only way really to advance policy is to come at it in partnership.
00:52:48On deferred maintenance, I could not agree with you more, Senator. And what I would say is if
00:52:56I would love to work with you on how we can best, can we do better communicating our needs,
00:53:03cyclic maintenance is what we sort of call the annual maintenance. There's no question that
00:53:09inadequate cyclic maintenance digs the deferred maintenance hole deeper, and we don't want that.
00:53:15Deferred maintenance is all about catching up. And so...
00:53:19Deferred maintenance is a debt.
00:53:21Yes, right, right.
00:53:22It's going to have to be paid eventually, and usually it'd be more expensive than if we did it
00:53:26now.
00:53:26That's a great way to describe it. And so I commit to working with you, and I welcome
00:53:32working with you and others who are concerned about deferred maintenance,
00:53:35on not only advocating for additional resources, but is there something we can do better about
00:53:41communicating the need that we think would be persuasive on this point of, as you say,
00:53:47kind of dull, not super exciting, but incredibly important issue of maintenance.
00:53:53Thank you.
00:53:53Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:53:55Thank you, Senator. And we have Senator Daines.
00:53:58Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank my co-chair of the National Park Symphony.
00:54:05Angus and I keep the National Park Symphony, we call ourselves co-chairs. No matter who's
00:54:10in majority control, we are co-chairs. And that's the way we will continue to operate
00:54:14that as long as we're both in that committee. So, Angus, thank you.
00:54:19Thanks for your service, Assistant Secretary Snows, and congratulations on your nomination
00:54:25to be the number two over there at DOI. I look forward to hearing more today about how you would
00:54:30think about managing there, and should you be confirmed. I will tell you, last night I was
00:54:35going back and forth with Cam Shawley, Yeltsin National Park. He was grateful for your outreach
00:54:42to him. Angus, the co-chair of Park Symphony, should know that because of the fast action
00:54:49of the Rangers at Yeltsin National Park acting on some credible intelligence,
00:54:53they prevented what could have been a mass casualty event over the 4th of July holidays.
00:54:57They confronted a shooter, and they killed him. One Ranger was wounded, thankfully. He's going
00:55:06to be okay, but had surgery. But I know Cam was grateful for your outreach to him. And during the
00:55:13time, not only what happened in Yellowstone Park over the 4th of July holidays, but also with the
00:55:17housing issues there, with the flood that we dealt with. And I know Cam's grateful for your
00:55:23outreach and your support, and I am too. Thank you. I want to talk about the St. Mary siphon.
00:55:29You thought I'd talk grizzly bears right out of the gate. I will get to grizzly bears here,
00:55:32but I want to talk about the St. Mary siphon failure. This includes the Bureau of Reclamation
00:55:41in terms of what we need to do to recover. It's currently working to address the catastrophic
00:55:48failure. We had two siphons in the St. Mary River, which provide water essentially to irrigators
00:55:54at Montez High Line. If confirmed, will you work with Reclamation, the farmers and ranchers on the
00:56:00High Line? The High Line is the northern part of our state, up close to the Canadian border. It's
00:56:04very arid. It's dry. We depend on water to stay alive up there, and the irrigation systems and
00:56:12the St. Mary's infrastructure. I just want to get your commitment that you would work with us and
00:56:18use all available resource at your disposal to replace these siphons and ensure the work is
00:56:25done as quickly as possible. Senator, I appreciate the question, and I'm sorry to hear that we have
00:56:32a water management infrastructure failure. No one knows how serious those are better than I do.
00:56:37If I'm confirmed, I absolutely will work with you and with BOR to ensure that we're addressing
00:56:42that issue adequately. This is one of the situations where you can't miss one irrigation
00:56:46season. Right now, we've got high temperatures. We had a cool June and July, and suddenly the
00:56:50temperatures spiked. July in Montana, it's higher temperatures, and it gets to be very—
00:56:55Senator, I'm sorry. May I just quickly—may I thank you for acknowledging
00:57:00the incident in Yellowstone, and let me just say to the committee, Senator Daines is correct.
00:57:08The bravery of our law enforcement officers in Yellowstone did indeed likely prevent a disaster
00:57:14and potentially a mass casualty event. It is true that one of our officers was shot,
00:57:21a very young officer. He is going to be okay. He's with his family now,
00:57:26and if Senator Risch was here, I would thank him because our officer was flown to Idaho Falls,
00:57:33and the medical professionals in Idaho cared for him, and we're very grateful for that. Thank you
00:57:37for raising that. Of course, and thanks for your outreach. I do want to talk grizzly bears.
00:57:43Okay. Yes, sir. Of course. Last February, of course, FWS initiated not a 17-month status
00:57:53review. It's called a 12-month status review for a reason. If they were to initiate a 17-month
00:57:58status review, we'd be expecting the result here this month, but it's a 12-month status review,
00:58:05so the data is very compelling in terms of where the recovery target is,
00:58:10where the actual populations are. My question is, would you help us and focus
00:58:21on getting this 12-month review done that should have been completed in February?
00:58:26Senator, so thank you, and it's good to talk grizzlies with you again, and first of all,
00:58:32let me acknowledge that I agree with you 100%, not that my agreement matters because the facts
00:58:38are what they are. The greater Yellowstone ecosystem population is recovered. The numbers
00:58:43from 2022, 965. Not only that, as I said earlier, the Northern Continental Divide
00:58:50population is also recovered at more than 1,100 bears. We do have this petition in front of us
00:58:56that's asking us to delist the GYE as a distinct population segment. It's that definition that
00:59:02we're working through. We've tried to do that before. We've tried to do that twice before,
00:59:08and the courts have rejected it. We're working through that. We're working through our delisting
00:59:12criteria. In the meantime, I want to say, because I didn't say it earlier when we were chatting
00:59:17about grizzlies, I need to say for the record how grateful we are to both Montana and Wyoming for
00:59:25the stewardship of grizzly bears. Grizzly bears are doing well in those states because the states
00:59:30are taking good care of grizzly bears, and we know that. Then I also want to say for the record
00:59:36that we want grizzlies to be recovered and delisted. I say that without reservation.
00:59:45I want that for all of our listed species. Delisting is a celebration. As I mentioned,
00:59:51in the ESA, the path that you use to get there also matters. It's not just the listing decision.
00:59:59It's the path you take. That's often what courts will attack. We want to make sure we've got the
01:00:03path right. Thank you. I agree. There's no reason we can't get this 12-month study wrapped up.
01:00:11We're at 17 months. Yes, sir. Thank you. The question is, we've got to get this wrapped up.
01:00:14Now, you all at the interior can decide to slow roll this thing to the election if you'd like.
01:00:19I think that's a big mistake. I think it violates the integrity of this process
01:00:23if we don't just commit to the 12-month, which should have been done in February.
01:00:27It's now the middle of July. Senator, I can assure you that this process is running based on
01:00:32what the needs of the process are. I agree with you, driving toward a decision.
01:00:38When is it going to be done? I don't have a date for you,
01:00:44but as I mentioned to you when we met a couple of weeks ago, this issue may be in the top five
01:00:51for the Fish and Wildlife Service leadership. I can tell you Martha's been out to Montana and
01:00:54Wyoming now a couple of times in the last month. This is a top priority. I want to stay in touch
01:01:03with you also in the days and weeks ahead. I'm just a little skeptical that we're going
01:01:10to see this get done before the election. I just think we need to get it done for the sake of the
01:01:13bears, for the sake of the process. I hope we can dissolve the politics if we might be able to,
01:01:20and stay focused on the science and get this done. I realize you want to get a solid review
01:01:24done so it protects ourselves when we get litigated in court. At some point,
01:01:31is it 12 months? If we gave you two years, I'm afraid you'd come back here and say we're at
01:01:3436 months and still thinking about it. I appreciate that. I appreciate that,
01:01:37Senator. You're right. It's a little bit further complicated because we have three petitions before
01:01:43us that are all related. I appreciate it. As always, I will stay in contact with your office.
01:01:51I'm well over my time and the chairman's very gracious. I got to talk to Ninth Circuit,
01:01:56Cottonwood Fix. Just one. It says, will you commit to working with this committee
01:02:00to get this bipartisan, voted out of here by voice vote, fix to save our forest management
01:02:07industry in the West? Absolutely, Senator. It's one of the great
01:02:11regrets. When I was first in front of this committee in 2021, you and I agreed, let's
01:02:15work together on Cottonwood, try to do an administrative fix, couldn't get that done.
01:02:21We tried to help and work with you statutorily. Yes.
01:02:25I'm grateful. I've got my colleagues over on this side of the dais here have been
01:02:29supportive of this now. I think we're ready. We could use your help here to get this across the
01:02:33finish line. Thank you, Senator. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Senator Rono.
01:02:38Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Congratulations on your nominations. When you appeared before this
01:02:45committee at your last nomination hearings, I had invited you to visit Hawaii and I understand that
01:02:50you have. So thank you very much. And I hope that you had an opportunity to hear from the people of
01:02:56Hawaii, some of their major concerns relating to the department and what the department can do.
01:03:03And in that regard, I did want to thank you for your leadership and that of the secretary
01:03:10for investing over $36 million to help conserve some of Hawaii's most endangered
01:03:18native bird species. We do not have grizzly bears, but we have birds, beautiful birds, beautiful
01:03:23birds. So, and I really appreciate it. You're explaining your leadership style and it was good
01:03:29to hear some specific examples of how you have been a listener and your responsiveness. And I
01:03:38think part of what we need to do in Hawaii especially is to reach out to the native Hawaiian
01:03:44community. And I hope that you were able to experience some of that when you visited Hawaii.
01:03:50But with regard to the forest bird strategy, can you just explain your role in developing and
01:03:59implementing the Hawaii forest bird strategy and how you have really included the native
01:04:05Hawaiian community in developing this strategy? Thank you, Senator. And to answer your question,
01:04:12Hawaii was a remarkable experience, transformative experience. It was my first visit. I was very
01:04:16grateful to be there. We did spend a great deal of time with the native Hawaiian community on a
01:04:21number of issues. And so I was grateful for that perspective and experience as well. On native
01:04:27Hawaiian birds, we did a lot of work during my visit. I got to meet a lot of the folks who were
01:04:31working on that. I think one of the pillars of that approach, so just to, so we know that these
01:04:38incredibly imperiled, very culturally significant species are under threat by
01:04:45invasive mosquitoes that essentially carry avian malaria. And these mosquitoes are actually
01:04:51expanding with climate change. So they are actually expanding in elevation, chasing the
01:04:55birds up the sides of the caldera and mountains. And one of the pillars of our approach here is to
01:05:04engage with native Hawaiian community and to incorporate cultural and indigenous knowledge
01:05:10in our approaches so that we are addressing this crisis in a way that is effective and that is also
01:05:21respectful of the cultural significance that this species plays. And my role has been to really
01:05:28provide that leadership and encouragement and making sure the program has the resources that
01:05:33it needs. And that's what I've done. Thank you. And by the way, I want to add to
01:05:41this discussion, my concern also about deferred maintenance. And I think our committee members
01:05:48are very much committed to more being done because that's what deferred maintenance is.
01:05:54We keep deferring it. Yes. So thank you very much. One of the new issues that will come before you,
01:05:59if you're confirmed, is COFA implementation. COFA is something that I really worked tirelessly
01:06:09with my colleagues to get the compacts approved. But what's new under the newly approved compacts
01:06:18is that the compact citizens who live in the United States, and there are many of them,
01:06:2520,000 or so in Hawaii, but they are now able to access federal programs. And they were not able
01:06:35to do that before. So implementation of this 20-year agreement with the freely associated
01:06:41states, and that would be Palau, Micronesia, and the Marshall Islands, is a high priority.
01:06:48And I would appreciate a status update from the department when it is available,
01:06:55and how we are doing with providing the kind of services that they are now able to access.
01:07:01Thank you, Senator. And I want to congratulate and thank everyone, the members of this committee,
01:07:06who are essential to reaching the COFA milestone. I know Senator Risch, Senator Manchin, yourself,
01:07:11Senator. And the department is absolutely committed. If I'm confirmed as deputy secretary,
01:07:16I will be committed to its implementation. It is absolutely critical, not just to meet our
01:07:21obligations to our affiliated states, but also for our national security in the Pacific. I mean,
01:07:26this is an incredibly important initiative, and it would be a high priority for me if I were
01:07:32confirmed as deputy secretary. I will look to your leadership on that because the COFA agreement
01:07:38involved three different departments, and Interior is the lead, but it obviously included the DOD
01:07:44and state. And one of the reasons that it took long for us to, it took longer than I think was
01:07:50that it should have taken, is that there are three departments, and there are a lot of,
01:07:56I wouldn't say finger pointing, but somebody had to take responsibility for all of this happening.
01:08:00And so I thank the department for your leadership, and you're going to need to continue to do that
01:08:05because we have thousands and thousands of COFA citizens who are living in our country who
01:08:11need the kind of assistance that we can provide and that should have never been taken away from
01:08:16them. So thank you very much for your commitment. Thank you, Senator. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank
01:08:20you, Senator. And now we go to Senator Cassidy. Thank you. Good morning, ma'am. Good morning,
01:08:26Senator. I was pleased to hear that you understand the economic impact of the ability of a family to
01:08:30work offshore in order to create an opportunity for their daughter to have the future such as
01:08:35you have had. So, because some people are just insensitive to that or don't care. Now,
01:08:42you had mentioned earlier, I'm told, a question from Senator Manchin that we will continue leasing,
01:08:47but I'm going to press you on that. We will continue leasing means sometime in the distant
01:08:52future, 10 years from now, we may have another lease. But as you know, there has to be kind of
01:08:57certainty as to the flow. Next year, we're going to have a lease, and the year after, and the year
01:09:01after. Because if you work for a company which serves those rigs, you can't have a two-year
01:09:09interruption. Everybody's laid off, and you can no longer do it. So will there be a lease sale
01:09:15in 2024? Senator, so thank you very much. What I would say to you is that we've got a five-year
01:09:25plan. If I'm confirmed as the Deputy Secretary, my top priority, I've said a piece of this
01:09:33throughout the hearing, it would be to immediately at a deeper level understand
01:09:40the policy implications and our policy decisions in the energy space. And this is one of them.
01:09:45It's very important. And I would want to work with you to understand, for example,
01:09:50our five-year plan, the approach to offshore leasing that we propose.
01:09:53So let me stop you for a second.
01:09:54Yes, sir. Thank you.
01:09:55In a previous hearing, an acting Deputy Secretary suggested that it would take 18 months to process
01:10:00this. Well, that would put us into late 2025 and 2026. You're thinking, you've been in office for
01:10:06three and a half years. If you'd started right off the bat, we would have like something happening
01:10:11now, and then something happening in 2025 and 2026. So it seems as if there's foot dragging.
01:10:17I'm just from the outside looking in. Oh, how long can we stretch it out so that, yeah,
01:10:23we're technically doing it, but in reality, those families that depend upon this income,
01:10:28as your family once did, they will be left hanging out to dry, but we don't care because
01:10:32we don't want it to happen. So I guess my frustration is, why is it always tomorrow
01:10:38that this is going to happen? Why didn't it happen when the dadgum administration took office?
01:10:44So Senator, I know this is a frustrating response to you, but I'm just speaking the truth,
01:10:51which is that I haven't been in the policy conversation on energy since I've been in
01:10:57the administration. So if I were confirmed as Deputy Secretary, I would be. And I would seek
01:11:05to understand the details and the implications at a deeper level at that time.
01:11:09Let me just mention another observation. It does seem like there's a strategy of death by a
01:11:14thousand cuts. So there's been this latest ruling regarding the rice whale in which they found
01:11:21critical habitat, maybe because there was a single possible, maybe kind of, we think could have been
01:11:27siding off of Texas, and they know they're off of Florida, and so they're putting a corridor
01:11:32in between. So far, not too bad, except where they've actually seen the rice whale, the corridor
01:11:37is about five miles wide, and off the coast of Louisiana, it's anywhere from 20 to 30 miles wide.
01:11:43That is significant because there's a 10 mile per hour limitation on speed only for offshore
01:11:49service vehicles for the rigs, not for a powerboat. So it's like a targeted, we're going to make it
01:11:56economically inefficient for you to actually drill offshore. Now, you have not been there
01:12:01while they're doing this, but that is the sort of thing that from the outside looking in,
01:12:06it's just hard to convince me that this is not a strategy of death of a thousand cuts to the
01:12:12people who depend upon this industry for their economic livelihood. Again, you're going to say,
01:12:20and rightfully so, you've not been part of that decision making, but that will be something that
01:12:24I will be kind of looking at. It doesn't seem, the science seems quite convenient.
01:12:30We're relying on the science, but you can't help but notice it's five miles wide here,
01:12:35but where there's outer continental shelf drilling is 20 to 30 miles wide.
01:12:39That science makes a lot of sense to me. No, it doesn't. So,
01:12:48now that I've been kind of bursting at the head, let me go here.
01:12:54Revenue sharing, let me just ask you about this. Revenue sharing,
01:13:00land water conservation fund, which I know that the chairman has used very nicely for West
01:13:06Virginia and that Danes was speaking very highly of, is funded almost entirely out of oil and gas
01:13:10revenues. There's a cap that limits the amount coming to the Gulf States, which will use this
01:13:18for coastal restoration. By the time this conference is over, this committee hearing's
01:13:23over, my state would have lost about 100 square yards of land to relative sea level rise.
01:13:28We use that money to, by our state's constitution, to rebuild our coastline.
01:13:32Last year, Louisiana, Texas, Mississippi, Alabama missed out on about $216 million that would have
01:13:38gone to local resiliency in these four states because there was this cap that we're trying
01:13:43to raise with the RISE Act. So, I'm just asking you, with your experience in the Everglades,
01:13:51is there a nice ROI on investment in resiliency, which is to say that if we invest now,
01:13:57we have to spend less later? I promise I didn't plant that question with you, Senator Cassidy.
01:14:03Yes, there is a tremendous ROI. You know, the numbers we've used in the Everglades for wetland
01:14:09and coastal restoration is something like four to one ROI, and that's an old number.
01:14:15It's probably higher now. I traveled to Louisiana last August and spent some time
01:14:23out there looking at some of that coastal restoration, and I think, you know, I know
01:14:29you've got the RISE Act. The RISE Act is moving through, and, you know, if I'm confirmed as
01:14:34Deputy Secretary or even in my current role, my current portfolio, you know, I would welcome
01:14:40the opportunity to work with you, understand, you know, that you've given me some good numbers.
01:14:46I'd like to understand those better about the impact when it comes to revenue sharing cap as
01:14:52well because coastal restoration is obviously essential for our coastal states. Thank you.
01:14:56I yield. Thank you. Thank you, Senator. And now we have Senator Hoeven.
01:15:02Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to you and the ranking member for holding this hearing today.
01:15:08Secretary, appreciate you being here. One of the things we worked on very hard in the Theodore
01:15:14Roosevelt National Park is to maintain the horses that are there, the wild horses that have been
01:15:22there for obviously a very long time. There was some attention by the Park Service to consider
01:15:28removing the horses. We had a public process, a lot of input. People very, very, very much want
01:15:35horses in that park. I've worked to secure a commitment from the Park Service to maintain
01:15:41horses in the park and not only horses but a genetically diverse herd, a large enough herd
01:15:46to maintain their genetic diversity. Are you committed to making sure that we continue to
01:15:52retain horses in the park and maintain an adequate herd so that the genetics are adequately preserved?
01:16:00Senator, let me say it was it was nice to speak with you on the phone when we were leading into
01:16:04that decision and I want to thank you for your leadership on that issue. I want to thank you for
01:16:09your close communication with our regional director. I know your office has a very good
01:16:14relationship with him and, you know, the Park Service has decided to take a step back,
01:16:19you know, from its plan and look again at horses at Theodore Roosevelt. I think
01:16:25there, you know, my role will be to work with them and work with you to find that right
01:16:31management level for that herd that is the right management level for the herd. Then,
01:16:36we also want to talk about sort of the resources needed to maintain that herd, right? The Park
01:16:41Service, you know, we've got to protect all of those resources and you know all of that. I mean,
01:16:46you know the unit very well. So, I look forward to working together on it. Thank you and both,
01:16:52at least one or more of the tribes in the state have offered to assist in any way, shape, or form
01:16:57Standing Rock as well as the state of North Dakota and there's a lot going on out there. So,
01:17:02you know, in your travels you may want to come out, but there's a ton going on in the park.
01:17:07Wonderful. Horses are an important part of it. So, thank you for and the regional administrator,
01:17:15Administrator Frost has been just outstanding. We've worked with him before, as you know,
01:17:18on elk and other things. Yes, yes. He does a fine job. Yeah, I've known Bert for 20 years. He's a
01:17:25really easy guy to work with. Yeah, he's a good man. Thank you on that. Now, one of the challenges
01:17:31that we've got is that you're looking at what we call, or what you call I should say, a resource
01:17:42management plan in the Dakotas. The challenge with this, at least the way that you've proceeded
01:17:48so far, is that it would really close off leasing oil and gas acreage and also our coal acreage. And
01:17:55you have to understand in North Dakota, maybe you do, but we have split ownership between
01:18:02interior, the state, and between private individuals. So, for example, the federal
01:18:09government might not own any of the surface acres, but they might own some of the mineral
01:18:13acres underneath. The state might own some and private individuals might own some. So, if in
01:18:19this resource management plan you close off access or refuse to lease your minerals, all of a sudden,
01:18:25whether it's oil or coal or anything else, they're stopped. And you might not even own any of the
01:18:30surface acreage, right? And so then they would have to go somewhere else or go around you.
01:18:34That disenfranchised not only the state of North Dakota, but also those individuals. So,
01:18:39you need to work with us on this management plan. And again, it goes back to multiple use,
01:18:45you know, in the grasslands and in the federal lands. And so, whether it's BLM, whether it's,
01:18:52you know, the National Grasslands, any of these, and of course we work with Department of Ag on
01:18:57that, but we've got to be able to access those so that people aren't unfairly disenfranchised.
01:19:03Yeah. Thank you, Senator. And if I'm confirmed, I absolutely will commit to working with you on
01:19:08that. I do, I have a little bit of experience, believe it or not. We have a mixed estate
01:19:13situation in Big Cypress National Preserve in Florida, privately held minerals, publicly held
01:19:18surface estate. So, I have a little bit of experience there. So, yes, I look forward to
01:19:23working with you on that if I'm confirmed. And, you know, obviously we do an incredible
01:19:27amount in ag and energy, livestock, all those kind of things, but it's also tourism and recreation.
01:19:31We do it all out there. We truly follow that multiple use, but we've got to make sure that
01:19:36we're able to access lands, you know, properly and fairly for both the state and for individuals.
01:19:41Thank you, Senator. Okay. I guess the other thing I'd want to ask about is the Biden administration
01:19:49put out numbers on drilling permits and it said that there had been more drilling permits approved
01:19:57than were actually drilled. And at one time they were saying there were more drilling permits
01:20:02approved through the Biden administration than for the same amount of time during the Trump
01:20:06administration. Now that's come out and that number has been dropped significantly by something like
01:20:11a thousand drilling permits. And so I would like to make sure we have the accurate information.
01:20:19You know, we're concerned, obviously, that the price of gasoline is up and believe that nobody
01:20:25can do it. I mean, we produce over 1.2 million barrels a day just in my state and nobody has
01:20:30better environmental standards. And so we can't allow Russia or OPEC or Iran or anyone else to
01:20:37produce for the world. We need to be, you know, producing not only for ourselves and others,
01:20:43just to bring prices down, fight inflation and really for geopolitical security. So if you would,
01:20:52I would like those latest updated numbers, if you would provide those.
01:20:57I will take that back, Senator, and make sure that those get to you.
01:21:00Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
01:21:01Thank you, Senator. And I just have one more question to follow up with. Senator
01:21:04Barrasso does too. And I don't know if Senator Hoeven has another question or so.
01:21:09But with that, mine is this. In the Infrastructure Investment Jobs Act, which we passed
01:21:14bipartisan in 2022, Interior basically set a deadline to issue the final offshore carbon
01:21:24capture and storage regulation by November of 2022. Interior missed that deadline and continues
01:21:31to delay each year. All the science tells us we cannot meet our climate goals without carbon
01:21:36sequestration. But it's an oxymoron, because if they don't really want to find a solution for it,
01:21:42they can blame the problem on fossil, and we can use it with technology much cleaner.
01:21:47So given the administration's focus on decarbonization,
01:21:50then this year should be a top priority, yet a draft rule has not even been published yet.
01:21:54So I'm asking you, if confirmed, will you commit to publishing a proposed rule
01:22:00before the end of this year?
01:22:02Well, Senator, as we get to know each other better, you'll know that I'm
01:22:07always a little reluctant to commit to things that I don't have control over,
01:22:10because my word is everything, right? So I don't want to set myself up for failure.
01:22:14Do you have any idea where this is right now?
01:22:16My understanding is that it is a priority, it is in development. I mean, I think what I
01:22:22understand about it is that it's standing up a brand new sort of regime, policy and permitting
01:22:27regime, and so it's complicated. And I know...
01:22:29Let me make sure I understand, so you understand the politics we're dealing with.
01:22:33Yes.
01:22:34The administration, or John Podesta, does not want to find a cure.
01:22:38Okay, so that's what we're dealing with. You're required to act on the facts. We can do it,
01:22:44we can safely basically sequester, we've proven that commercially. And all we're asking for is
01:22:50give us the report that shows it can be done. That's all we're asking for. I'll fight the
01:22:54administration, we'll both fight it, whatever's going on there, but if you all would just,
01:22:58someone that we can count on to give us the facts that it can be done offshore.
01:23:03Senator, thank you. And if I am confirmed, as I've said this morning, I will work with you,
01:23:11I will communicate with you, and I will take responsibility to be as smart as I need to be
01:23:18to communicate with you in an effective and a way that you find useful.
01:23:22Since I won't be here after January, I rely on my friend here to make sure that
01:23:27you're reporting back.
01:23:28Absolutely. Thank you, Senator.
01:23:30Thanks, Mr. Chairman. A couple other things. In November of 2022, Laura Daniel Davis, the acting
01:23:36deputy secretary, she signed a decision memo that raised royalty rates on oil and gas leases,
01:23:42raised the rates. According to the memo, they said lowering rates would actually encourage more oil
01:23:47and gas development and offer greater energy security. We're worried about energy security
01:23:54for the country. But she went ahead to choose to impose higher royalty rates so that she said the
01:24:01oil and gas production would move to a lower, and she said more socially optimal level, so that the
01:24:09socially optimal level is not what is most interesting for the country in terms of greater
01:24:13energy security. Totally divergent positions. Do you believe that less American oil and gas
01:24:20production is socially optimal for our nation?
01:24:25So, Senator, I'm not sure I know what socially optimal is, but what I would say is that...
01:24:33Well, it sounds like it's a religion by this administration and the department right now.
01:24:40What I would say is that I know that the administration is pursuing a clean energy
01:24:45transition and that addressing the climate crisis, lowering greenhouse gas emissions,
01:24:51this is something that is a high priority for us. And we've said this morning that we know
01:24:58that oil and gas production is going to be a part of the energy mix for a long time.
01:25:03And if I'm confirmed as deputy secretary, the energy portfolio would be... And my understanding
01:25:13the nature of the debate and really understanding what are the contours of the debate,
01:25:18that's going to be my number one priority.
01:25:21In addition to the contours, it's the long-term consequences of the debate. We had a hearing here
01:25:26a couple of weeks ago that the chairman called talking about long-term energy needs and AI.
01:25:31And even according to the New York Times, the energy needs of this nation
01:25:35five years from now because of AI, because of electrification, electric vehicles,
01:25:40crypto, all of those things, it's going to be about like adding a whole new California
01:25:44to the grid. And China is committed to having all the energy that they need
01:25:48for AI. And it doesn't seem like this administration is committed to having that
01:25:54energy needs to be able to compete against China. And that was the result of the hearing here.
01:25:59So I'm talking about just in terms of the consequences long-term. So under the current
01:26:04secretary, the department has leased on average 96% less onshore acreage for oil and gas production
01:26:11each year than the three prior administrations, even the Obama administration, much, much less.
01:26:18It's also issued on average 93% fewer onshore oil and gas leases each year compared to the
01:26:27prior administrations, including the Obama administration. In your view,
01:26:31is the department headed in the right direction when it comes to oil and gas leasing?
01:26:34Well, so, you know, again, Senator, I haven't been in the policy discussion on energy
01:26:40thus far. I would say that the administration is confident that our plan is going to meet
01:26:46our energy needs into the future. I understand there's disagreement. And if I'm confirmed as
01:26:52deputy secretary, I, you know, I would be then part of that, that debate in those discussions.
01:26:57And I would look forward to, you know, understanding your perspective on them.
01:27:02Because I think what you just said is true. The administration believes we're on the track to do
01:27:07that. We've had here testifying the FERC, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, and NERC,
01:27:14the reliability. They all say administration's wrong on that viewpoint. So I'd look forward to
01:27:22you getting deeper into that from a scientific standpoint to see there. The, you know, the
01:27:28average time under Secretary Holland to take to get an oil and gas permit is nearly tripled
01:27:32compared to the Obama administration. In one of the BLM field offices in Wyoming, the average wait
01:27:38time is now more than a year and a half. If confirmed, you would be the person overseeing
01:27:44the Bureau. Does nearly tripling the time it takes to receive an oil and gas permit sound
01:27:49reasonable to you? Well, Senator, we've talked a little bit about permitting this morning and
01:27:53across the board. And we know that the permitting process across the board can take longer than
01:27:58any of us really wants to take. And certainly if I'm confirmed, you know, I would look into
01:28:03concerns if there are, you know, as you've expressed, concerns into the time it takes to
01:28:09process oil and gas permitting or any permitting. So it gets into the discussion of what we consider
01:28:15reasonable. Because the federal law requires the Bureau of Land Management to issue oil and gas
01:28:19leases to winning bidders within 60 days. I mean, that's the current law. The Bureau has refused to
01:28:26issue leases to winning bidders of its 2020 lease sale. It's now 2024. The Bureau has sat on these
01:28:34leases for three and a half years. I mean, those are the facts. If confirmed, you would oversee the
01:28:40Bureau. Is this a good example of an issue that would merit at least your personal time and
01:28:45attention? Indeed. I mean, certainly. Any issue that is raised by a United States Senator would
01:28:53be worth my time and attention. And this is one of them, certainly. And, you know, again, this is
01:29:00the perfect example of, you know, where the Deputy Secretary would step in and say what's happening
01:29:04and, you know, and then communicate directly with you, you know, on that point. Let me just
01:29:09follow up real quick on that. For an example, a drilling permit needed for a proposed lithium
01:29:13project on BLM managed land has taken more than two years versus less than six months to secure
01:29:21the same permit on private lands. So my only thing is you don't have to, you know, you don't have to
01:29:26reinvent the wheel here. All you have to do is basically reverse engineer. How are we doing it
01:29:33four times faster on private than we have total control on BLM? That makes no sense to us.
01:29:39You know, thank you, Senator. And I'll just say this, which is a little bit more perhaps
01:29:43substantive, which is that, you know, I mentioned earlier that in my current portfolio I have
01:29:49intersected, you know, with some of these issues as overseeing a regulatory agency now. And, you
01:29:54know, one of the lessons that a couple of the lessons that I learned is that in some of these
01:29:59efforts, you know, engaging with the regulatory agency early and often, you know, that's an
01:30:04important thing to do. In our case it was Fish and Wildlife Service, right? Engaged leadership
01:30:09from the very beginning. The bigger and more complex the project, the more important it is to
01:30:13have sort of leadership, you know, driving us to milestones, helping de-conflict, helping get over
01:30:18disagreements in stuck places. So I've learned some of these lessons and I would certainly
01:30:22bring those into the desk. Let me just make one final comment and then we'll close out here.
01:30:26The Interior Department of Interior seems to, you know, to take stewardship to a whole new level.
01:30:33The Department of Interior is not owners of this land, it's the people of America.
01:30:38Every one of them sitting here, we all own the BLM land and we're appreciative of good stewardship.
01:30:44The bottom line is it should be for our benefit and this is what's not happening. We're fighting
01:30:48within ourselves to get the best, you know, results. That's what's frustrating sitting here
01:30:54as a U.S. Senator trying to have just a dialogue with people who are your steward. You don't own
01:31:02it. It's not yours. This seat's not mine. It's not John's. We understand that. We're stewards.
01:31:07We're representing the people and we're asking you all to do the same. So with that, we do
01:31:12appreciate you being here. We appreciate your responsiveness to our questions, which I think
01:31:16you've been straightforward and I appreciate very much that, and your willingness to take on this
01:31:20important role, which is so, so important to our country. So with that, our members will have until
01:31:276 p.m. tomorrow to submit additional questions for the record, and with that, meeting's adjourned.
01:31:32Thank you, Senator.
01:31:57you

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