Mike Mulligan and Mark Grote were joined by Marquee Sports Network analyst Lance Brozdowski to discuss the White Sox's selection of Arkansas left-hander Hagen Smith at No. 5 overall in the MLB Draft on Sunday and the Cubs' addition of Florida State third baseman Cam Smith at No. 14.
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00:00great work. Thank you guys. Thanks for having me. It was a lot of fun. Yeah, I'm still recovering.
00:04I feel I feel like I was like so zoned in. It's like I it's like I pitched 12 innings.
00:10That's seriously harder than what I did. That is awesome. And I got to tell you,
00:14the the the drafts gotten so much better. And it's so much more fun than the old days. We're
00:20talking about it. Like you just find out some kid from Lake Forest got drafted in the 32nd round.
00:25Like it was just so bizarre, how it wasn't kind of the what it is these days. And it's tons of fun.
00:32And and friend of the program, Jim Callis, your partner on road to Wrigley, did a fantastic job.
00:39It's just, it's just good to see people that know all these names and understand the sport in the
00:45way that you guys do. So tons of fun. I think the Sox did fine with that. With that picture
00:53with with Hagen Smith, he looks like a guy that I heard Mike Shirley say that he's a varsity player.
01:01Apparently, they're calling the SEC the varsity because that's the difference between it and
01:07other conferences. So being able to plow his way through a lot of SEC bats speaks volumes about
01:14what the guy's capable of. Yeah, I mean, he had insane results. And then Chase Burns,
01:19the pitcher went before him second to the Reds, who the Cubs might see for a very long time.
01:22Unfortunately, um, yeah, I mean, he dominated the big thing for that jumped out for me, as you heard
01:29in the little tease, you guys threw in there's he missed like so many bats in the zone, and didn't
01:34have contact in the zone. And it's interesting, because Chase Burns is a guy who is like being
01:39stuffed models, like everything he throws is hard, it all moves a lot, you know, you project it out.
01:43And it's like, this guy will be good at the major league level. Hagen Smith's a bit different.
01:47The results are incredible there. He just got the things in a very different way than Burns did.
01:51So he was like low slot, his releases super far towards the first base side,
01:58kind of upshot fastball to plane, which works. And it's weird from that angle.
02:03So it's just a visual, I think that hitters never gotten used to in D one. And the White Sox fan is
02:08probably that that continues, you know, I don't know if they're really betting on, you know,
02:12jumping him a tick or two and Velo, they're not probably not going to rework the slider,
02:16because it was so good. Maybe that and another picture too. But you know, he was so good versus
02:22opposite handedness, terms of left handed pitcher, he's left handed pitcher throwing to right hand
02:26bidders that I just don't really think there's much that needs to be changed there, where you
02:31just kind of send them through higher levels, you see how he does. They have Brian Bannister at the
02:35helm to which I mentioned on the broadcast, but I do think that organization's gone from being one
02:40that you're a bit terrified to go to as a pitcher to now one that I'm much more confident you go to
02:45as a pitcher that you might actually get some really good instruction from some of the guys
02:48there and coaches there. They have one of the biggest Velo jumps as an organization on the
02:52minor league side year over year from 23 to 24. I do think things are looking up on the pitching
02:58side for the White Sox. And I think Hayden lands in a really interesting spot. That's good to hear.
03:03I'm sure that White Sox fans love hearing that the Sox have become a place or be starting to
03:09become a place where they could develop pitchers. And I think Garrett crochet is a good example of
03:13that. That was the Sox decision to do what they've done and they've developed him nicely
03:17as a start of this year. If you project Hagen Smith, who we're talking about here, Sox taking
03:22number five overall lefty pitcher, where do you think he is in a rotation? Do you think he's
03:29got a chance to be a top guy or is he more like a two or three in a rotation? What's your early
03:33projection on Hagen Smith? Yeah, I'd say you look at projections in a variety of ways. Projections,
03:41I think, are like a range of outcomes. I think a lot of the times, you know, even sometimes
03:44on the network, I don't mean network and stuff, you go towards like the top end projection.
03:48So you're projecting guys relative to what could they become if you hit the absolute
03:53awesome best outcome possible. And I think that irks some people because it's like,
03:57oh, you're confident this kid who hasn't thrown a pitch in the minor leagues to like a Hall of
04:00Famer. So I look at projections more from like, what's the most likely outcome? And then what
04:04could you capture if you everything breaks in the right direction? So I think I think he's more like
04:09a two, three, but I think there's upside for like a one, two, you know, I wouldn't say he has
04:14that upside of being like a true ace, ace, which honestly, I think crochet landed on. So I mean,
04:20I don't know if anyone saw crochet with that much upside, especially being like a reliever
04:24of tenacity and touch. So, you know, we're wrong on this stuff a good amount of the time. You saw
04:29a lot of the mocks, too. I mean, like, what was the best mock had nine picks, right? Out of what
04:34ever been in the first round. It's hard. This stuff's really hard to do. But I mean,
04:38I think he's like a two, three. I think that's like a fair outcome for him, which is a really
04:42good picture and one that especially in a draft that I think fell off really hard with college
04:47pitching. And you saw that, too, with a guy like Trey Savage sliding. I don't know if that was
04:50medicals or what. I was a bit surprised that comes back on him. But, you know, he goes 20
04:54to the Blue Jays. That was a guy that I think was everyone thought the floor was like 15.
04:59So I'm not stunned that Burns and Smith, who were two guys that I thought were projected a
05:04little lower, like Burns was projected and mocked a ton to the Rockies at three.
05:08Hagan was projected to the Cardinals at seven and both those guys jumped two picks above that.
05:12I think it's just a spot where teams were like, these are the best two pitchers by a large margin,
05:16especially if we're not confident in that ECU Kitty Savage. So let's take them. Let's take
05:21them above Condon, you know, Jack Aglione and Weatherholt, who I think a lot of people
05:27projected really strongly. So maybe some people on the White Sox side maybe thought that they
05:31should have gone with Jack or JJ, which I understand because that that system is a
05:34little bit deeper on the pitching side right now. And I also think, again, with guys like
05:38Bannister and others in that organization, you should be able to take later arms and develop
05:42them into guys. So maybe you should have gone with a bad if you kind of only are looking at
05:46that system and seeing Colton Montgomery as a guy that long term is a, you know, 160 games a season
05:52guy who could who has juice, but I don't mind the Hagan Smith thing. If I was that from office
05:58where I've gone with Jack or JJ, I had a really good conversation. I would love to have been in
06:02the room to hear because I think that you could put a third, third, third on probability there.
06:06So which one of these guys pops and is a better player in a couple of years. Jack's like the huge
06:11exit velocity. That would have been a ton of fun to see, you know, Weatherholt's like your speedy
06:15shortstop can stick their contact quality is great. And then Hagan's like a weird lefty with
06:20a ton of his own myth. So each of those guys has strengths. You know, I haven't heard the rationale
06:25on why the White Sox went Smith over Jack and JJ. I'm not sure if anyone's asked that to guess or
06:28anybody else, but I'd be curious to see what they thought. I'm curious your thoughts on Cam Smith.
06:35He went 14th to the Cubs, did very well in the, you know, prestigious Cape Cod League. You love
06:43seeing that kind of thing. Then they double back and they got another college infielder,
06:49Cole Mathis from the College of Charleston at 54. Let's talk Smith and Mathis if we could for a
06:57minute. Let's do it. Yeah. So Smith, I will start with this. So I feel like the Cubs are getting
07:03in a spot and I say this lovingly to Dave Hedges, the VP of scouting there, but they're getting to
07:09a spot where if you performed in college and you did well on the Cape and you're a college hitter,
07:14you're a Chicago Cub. It seems like what they're going towards, honestly. I mean,
07:18you got like Matt Shaw, you got all these other guys in the past too that they've nailed. And
07:22I don't think there's anything wrong with that because I think that our type of player has been
07:27pretty good over the last couple of years. Like I know some of the college backs that have gone in
07:30the top 15 recently, thinking like a JJ Blair, even like an Andrew Vaughn at the White Sox,
07:34maybe haven't panned out at Torkelson too in the way that you would expect based on
07:39how some of those projections went early when they were drafted. But
07:43Cam Smith looks great. Both these guys look amazing from the pure like batted ball data
07:48standpoint. Like how hard are these guys hitting the ball? They're ranking really well. I mean,
07:53you even look alongside some of the other guys that went before him, like a James Tibbs
07:57went to the Giants. I thought he would have been in play for the Cubs. He's a guy who had really
08:01good results, but Cam Smith hits the ball harder, had better max exit velocities, better barrel
08:06rate or similar barrel rate. You know, bat speed projection looks pretty similar on those two guys.
08:11Tibbs just performed a little better. Also, the FSU kids, you can kind of put them one-to-one and
08:15comp them. The thing with Cam Smith that jumps out is the batted ball quality is good, so how hard
08:20he's hitting the ball is good, but the directions in which he's hitting the ball are not ideal
08:26relative to pretty much everyone else around him in the class. Cam hit a lot of ground balls,
08:31didn't hit a lot of line drives, didn't hit a lot of fly balls, didn't pull a lot of fly balls.
08:35That to me feels like something that's very adjustable, where I don't know if it's like
08:40a path problem, I don't know if it's a swing problem, whatever, but he goes into a Cubs
08:44organization that has had a really good track record of changing guys into being better versions
08:49of themselves. For me, this is as much a bet, and I don't know if the Cubs are going to say it,
08:53this is as much a bet on that hitting department to turn the raw batted ball data into really good
08:58outcomes by adjusting the kind of contact he's making, getting him to pull the ball in the air
09:03more, getting him to spray more, I want more line drives, getting the ball off the ground.
09:07You're betting on Justin Stone, you're betting on other guys in the org, who's Justin Stone's
09:12director of hitting with the Cubs, to kind of fix this swing a bit and get him to a point where
09:16projections that average their baseman, maybe a little bit better defensively,
09:20and he turns into a bat that becomes more impact because of what the organization does.
09:24So I think they're going to put their stamp on him in that respect.
09:27So if they jump him to high A really quick or something, pass him through Myrtle,
09:32I would not really make too much of what's going on from a results standpoint.
09:37Just want to see what they did this offseason into next year, in terms of what they do swing
09:41live with him and how he looks coming out in 2025. I'm jumping in Cole Mathis, again, another,
09:46this guy's another one where it's just massive egg velocities. Like,
09:49I get it's a weaker conference, etc. People might be skeptical that it's not SEC, it's not ACC,
09:54whatever, the dude torch the ball like he pops and everything in that respect.
09:59We saw that the combine to edit stuff around the network, who's hitting tanks there.
10:03He's more of a first baseman, he also kind of pitched a bit. So it's a little surprising that
10:07they announced him as a third baseman. So you get a pair of third baseman off the top, which is,
10:11I didn't know exactly if I thought they were going to do that. My perception of the organization from
10:15the minor league side is that I was hoping they'd take a picture. I was hoping they'd take a sound
10:18to someone else and build that out. Maybe they're planning on doing that now and ripping like three
10:22or four pictures off that they like. I just thought there was a lot of value in the second
10:25round in terms of pitching. You know, you pass it a guy like St. Joe to go to the Mariners that
10:30switch pitcher you pass like I like the savage. Like the Cubs had to be super confident in what
10:34they can do to camp Smith to not, I think, go towards what might be the slight weakness in the
10:38org, which is pitching depth, right? Like you raise a crazy walk rate in the minors. Like he's,
10:43I don't, I don't really know if he's as strong of a prospect as everyone thought coming into the
10:48season. Jackson Wiggins, who was the second round of the last year looks fantastic. So
10:52maybe they're betting on him. Maybe they're betting on like Wicks and Ben Brown and all
10:55these other guys in the majors having such good careers and projecting them strong going forward
10:59that, you know, the timeline isn't necessary to build out a ton of pitching, but as Jill say,
11:05like you never had enough pitching. So that's, and especially being the pitching guy,
11:08this is very obvious that I just wanted to pitch you because I love talking about it.
11:12But I get it. I get if you're a company, you're looking at the draft, you're going,
11:15why did I take two third baseman? I mean, you don't, you think that's present need, et cetera,
11:19but I don't mind the draft. They went on a velocity. They went on guys that I think are
11:23relatively safe relative to some of the other guys around them. So a lot of words there,
11:28but that's kind of my, my overall take on that. I mean, I, I agree with, and I get what you're
11:32saying. I'll even take it a step further with the pitching. Obviously that was kind of a bit
11:36of a blind spot for the Theo Epstein, Jed Hoyer regime and developing pitchers. So I think that
11:42there's still a little bit of, of, of trauma, not necessarily with the front office, but maybe fans
11:47like can the Cubs develop pitchers and they've gotten better at it recently. Justin Steele
11:52is a pretty good example of a guy that came through their system, but I do want to, I do
11:57want to ask you about Cam Smith and the third baseman. And we, we talked to Bruce Levine earlier,
12:01your colleague and ours, and he says that, that he believes that Cam Smith can and will be,
12:09or could very possibly be a third baseman at the major league level. And maybe you kick
12:14Morrell to the outfield. And I know that's getting very ahead. Cause we have no idea
12:19what Cam Smith is going to be like, or how fast he's going to make it through the minors. But
12:23do you think that that's a plausible scenario? Like is Morrell, not the, is this just a one-off
12:30year for him, giving him a third base and then maybe he goes somewhere else next year or the,
12:33in the future years or DH? Yeah, that's a great question. Yeah, it's a great question. I mean,
12:38I think, I think if you're to get better at a defensive position, you're basically entire
12:42off-season focus needs to be on that thing. And you look at this and the name that jumped out
12:46is like JD Davis, who was a terrible defender for a really long time, goes to the Giants. And I
12:50believe that off-season product being with the Giants, just like work with the defensive group
12:54the entire off-season and got really good and ended up being an above average third baseman.
12:58That is like what you're going to have to devote to in terms of Morrell. The big thing with Morrell
13:02is like the, the season arc and trajectory for him has been weird to be where it's like
13:08off the top. You're like, is this guy MVP candidate? And then it's like,
13:12complete down bottoms out in terms of what the production span slug is way down,
13:16which is perplexing, but then the discipline looks great. So you see some improvements there.
13:20It's just what he's actually doing from a better ball standpoint, hasn't really caught up to some
13:23extent. So I don't, I'm fascinated. That's the guy, like you go exit meeting on the season,
13:29whatever that may be like, that's the first question is like, what's the plan from around
13:33the off season? And I don't know if it comes to going to tell you, but that it's a great,
13:37it's a great point. Like you want to, you want him to allocate resources to becoming a better
13:40hitter in the off season. Do you want to allocate resources to him? Just becoming a third baseman
13:45that you're constantly rolling out every single day next year. Great questions. You know,
13:50like I think camp can play third. The thing with a lot of draft picks is like,
13:54I don't think you need to solidify like what the guy is right now. Like any of these guys
13:59was going to go into an org and play the position, the upside position that you want them to play,
14:05probably for a year to a year and a half. You know, like the pirates took the parts that could
14:09count Lindsay, right? The high schooler who I believe was mostly scouted as an outfielder
14:14and then selected as a shortstop, like a shortstop. I don't know, but it doesn't matter
14:19because he's going to play short for two years. You're going to see what he is. And then,
14:22okay, cool. He's now an outfielder. And like, he'll be able to pick that up quicker. If he's
14:25been playing short, like you play the more difficult position and then go from there.
14:28So for camp Smith, it's like, he's probably going to play third base for two years. Like just give
14:32them 200 games in the minus a third and see what we have. Like the grades defensively look fine.
14:36So I have no reason to doubt that he could play sir. It's not like he's going to be no
14:40at third base defensively, but that's not the point. Like that's not what you are
14:44drafting him for. You're actually, you're drafting him to be like probably an average
14:47third baseman and to be an impact back. And again, the big thing for him is becoming that
14:51impact that listened to the ball more on a guy who can't Smith, but yeah, that's what I take
14:54them around. Like I'm, that's the, that's the first day of the interview question is like,
14:58what's the plan? We're all like, what are you doing in the off season with them?
15:01You know, and maybe we don't find that out until spring when you ask directly and you're like,
15:04Hey, would you do this off season? And he's like, yeah, I worked with this defensive
15:07entire for the last four months. And it's like, I'm a better third baseman now. And everyone's
15:10like, here you go. Like third base in the future. So that'd be nice. Yeah.
15:14All right. No matter what happens on either side of town, we're going to be covering every move
15:19prior to the July 30th deadline, right here on Chicago sports radio, six, seven to the score
15:26and the live on the free odyssey app. And we will be debating, will the Cubs decide to buy,
15:35sell or stand Pat during this up and down season. And Lance, we were discussing that question this
15:43morning and there's a report from Bob Nightingale that they're out looking at Danny Jansen,
15:49a catcher with the Toronto. And we wonder, you know, is it that sort of buying? Is it modest
15:56buying? Are there, I don't think they're selling after the five and two close to the season.
16:01We look at the draft. We always look in for breadcrumbs as to what they are going to decide
16:08to do. Are they going to buy, sell or stand Pat? Yeah. It's a good question. I have no
16:13insight until here. My impression right now is it's probably like a soft buy where it's like,
16:17they'll pick up a piece or two and maybe add a bullpen piece or something. And that's a byproduct
16:22of the fact that I'm not entirely sure how much they have to sell. And I don't necessarily know
16:26if they make sense for some of the bigger buys. I will say, and again, this is purely my opinion,
16:32Garrett crochet is a guy that I don't think is going to get traded because I just don't know
16:38how teams are projecting out his innings. You know, like if that's a massive jump and if you're,
16:43if you're buying him for team control next year, he's a really weird guy where it's like,
16:48you buy them and push them to the pen, you know, or do you buy them and shut them down and then try
16:53to ramp up back up in September for the post season? It's just, he doesn't line up. Like if
16:57they want, like they've been rumored was a nightingale or Hayman or someone had like Spencer
17:01Jones from the Yankees. Like, I mean, I know Jones performance isn't great right now, but like
17:05Jones is like a top 20 process. I don't think you trade Spencer Jones for Derek. If that's,
17:10yeah, there's no chance he's going anywhere. Cause I'm not confident he's going to go give
17:13you 30 innings in the post season. You know, like you push them up to 200 days,
17:17it'd be more than doubling as any total. What makes it really interesting. You have to line
17:21them up. If you want to trade him in like your trade machine speculation, y'all end up with a
17:26team that maybe doesn't make a deep playoff run, you know, as prospects to give, and it's kind of
17:33trying to lock on next year. I think the Cubs have a shot to make the playoffs just because
17:37the NL is such a complete mess that they probably can make a run to the steel and
17:40show that at the top. I actually think the Cubs have the prospects to go get crochet
17:44where it's like, you have guys, you can turn over. I'm not sure if the White Sox line up
17:48in this respect. And I don't know if it comes, you're going to want to pay for a guy next year,
17:52but the Cubs have had success jumping guys, large innings, because I think they have a really good
17:56strength department and really good understanding of workload management. And some of the guys they
17:59have in the front office and on the training staff. I'd love to see him giving some guys
18:05for crochet. I think it lines up really well. If this team like goes on a weird stretch over the
18:10next 15 games, you know, and like, they're kind of down, like, I don't know if the White Sox just
18:15hold that ask super high, but if they come down on that at all, and teams assessments are that
18:21he can't go 200 innings this season. If I'm the Cubs, I take them in like, I don't know,
18:26shut them down. And then have them for 150 plus next year. And then you have two of the best
18:30left hand stars in baseball at the top of your rotation. I guess I'll take again, I like zero
18:34inside info here as to whether this is even a remote possibility. But the crochet has to line
18:39up with a team that is you're not entirely sure is going to make like a deep world series run,
18:44because you're buying him for nothing. In fact, and I think the Cubs are in a very unique spot
18:48where they have a lot of prospects. And they kind of right now at least being eight and a half out
18:52of the division and a couple out of the wildcard, you know, unless you can convince me that that
18:56team makes a big turnaround in the next couple, couple weeks, which I very much think they can
18:59write three and a half out of the wildcard. So I'm I just think it's a fun thought that I've
19:04had in my head. I'm surprised no one's brought up. Boy, I gotta tell you that that would that
19:09would be that would be a sports radio topic. Good. You know, fantastic topic. Jose Quintana
19:17part two, but this time it's Garrett Crowley. Hey, that's awesome. Better than
19:22lefty power. I'd like to think so. I'd like to think so. Thank you, buddy.
19:27That is outstanding stuff. We'll have to get into that a little bit.