On the flagship podcast of nose bridge microphones: The Verge’s David Pierce enlists help from Alex Cranz and Sean Hollister to figure out the best gadget setup for his handheld gaming needs. Victoria Song joins the show to test out the microphones on a bunch of smart glasses and headsets. Later, David answers a question from the Vergecast Hotline.
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TechTranscript
00:00:00Welcome to The Verge Cast, the flagship podcast of Nosebridge Microphones. I'm your friend,
00:00:04David Pierce, and I am sitting in my new bathroom. It's been almost a month since we've been doing
00:00:11this construction, and I'm sure you've heard me complain about all of the construction noise and
00:00:16chaos on the show over the last month. You've probably even heard some of the noise and chaos
00:00:22on the show over the last month, so I'm sorry for all of my noise and chaos. But it's done.
00:00:28It's not all the way done, because as I've learned with a project like this,
00:00:31it's never all the way done. I can see the paint touch-ups and everything that I have to do.
00:00:35You do one of these things, and you're suddenly just very aware of your surroundings in a way
00:00:39that is honestly not helpful. I don't recommend it. It's better to just sort of live your life
00:00:44and not notice all the imperfections. But now I have a sink that works. We have a shower that
00:00:49works. We have a toilet that works. I have places to put things. It's all very exciting.
00:00:54And now, honestly, given the amount of money and time and energy we've spent in this bathroom,
00:00:58it only feels right for me to just live in this bathroom. So this is my home now.
00:01:03I'm verge casting from the bathroom from now on. Anyway, we have a lot of stuff to do today,
00:01:08so let's dive into it. We're going to do two things. First, we're going to talk about a bit
00:01:12of a gaming hardware conundrum that I'm having, and we're going to see if two of my colleagues
00:01:18can help me figure out how to upgrade my PS4 and what I actually need to buy. Then we're going to
00:01:24do a test of some new wearable microphones. We love doing mic tests on this show, and we haven't
00:01:30done them with the glasses and headsets and all that kind of stuff that is out there in the world
00:01:35in a big way. So we're going to test some microphones and see how everybody sounds.
00:01:39We also have a really fun glasses question from the Verge Cast Hotline. Lots to do, so let's get
00:01:44to it. All that is coming in just one second, but first there's a grout line that I have to go fix,
00:01:50and it's going to drive me crazy if I don't do it. This is the Verge Cast. We'll be right back.
00:01:58Welcome back. All right, so as I mentioned up top, I'm in the middle of kind of a gaming dilemma.
00:02:04I've been really a gamer off and on over the course of my life. It's not something that
00:02:09it's kind of a consistent activity, but I'll play a lot for a few months and then kind of
00:02:14put the console away for a few months because whatever things get busy or I get into something
00:02:18else. But then I always come back to games. And really, for me, it's sports games that are the
00:02:23most consistent. Like I play Madden every year. I like the NBA games. 2K is really good. I've been
00:02:29a FIFA player for forever. I like Fortnite. I like games that I can kind of come and go to and play
00:02:36a whole bunch all at once and then leave for a little while and then come back. I also like
00:02:40games that I can play for like 15 minutes at a go. And the challenge I've always had with a game
00:02:44like Elden Ring is I just want to play it for hours. And I feel like it never rewards you for
00:02:50just a couple of minutes of playing at a time in a way that some of these more finite battle royale
00:02:56or like football game sized games really are. So all of this is to say I'm pretty happy with
00:03:02my gaming setup. I haven't really felt the need to get a PS5 or anything like that. I'm still on
00:03:08a PS4 Pro. It works fine. Everything's great. But more recently, I want something new. We've been
00:03:14talking a lot about handheld consoles on this show over the last eight months or so, I would say.
00:03:20And there's just a lot of cool stuff happening. I also travel more than I used to. And I'm back
00:03:26to wanting something I can play on the train or on a plane or in a hotel room when I'm not at home.
00:03:31I also just spend too much time sitting at my desk, like right now, I'm sitting at my desk,
00:03:36my monitors in front of me, my computer is underneath it, I have a Mac Mini that I use
00:03:41for most things. And then right off to the right is my PlayStation. And so having this one space
00:03:46be the place that I sit for work all day, and then to play games at night, I just don't like it. And
00:03:51I want something that I can take and sit on the couch while I hang out with the dog or play out
00:03:56in the backyard when the weather's nice. So I'm really into the idea of a handheld console. But
00:04:01I have no idea which one to get. So I enlisted two people to help me figure it out. Sean Hollister
00:04:07and Alex Kranz. They both know this stuff way better than I do. And together, we are going
00:04:12to make a decision about which handheld console I'm going to buy. Let's get into it. Alex Kranz,
00:04:17hello in Texas. Howdy, y'all. This is this is what we're gonna do here. Sean Hollister. Hello.
00:04:25Hi, from the land of gaming handhelds. I have brought you here to do personal tech support
00:04:30for me, because that is what the first test is about, is helping David figure out which
00:04:35gadgets he should buy. Good. I'm going to lay out for you my current situation. And then you are
00:04:40going to help me solve my current situation. So my current situation is I have a PlayStation 4.
00:04:45I've had it for a million years. It's fine. It plays video games, I would like to upgrade,
00:04:51but I don't think what I want is a PS five, I think what I want is something handheld and
00:04:56portable, because my PS four like lives next to my computer in my basement. And I'm spending too
00:05:02much time sitting in this chair looking at this screen. And I would like to have something that
00:05:05can like go out in the world with me and I travel a lot and all these things. So I want something
00:05:09that is like primarily but not entirely a portable handheld gadget. I would like to play lots of
00:05:17games, we can talk about which games I do and don't care about. But I have exactly one
00:05:21non negotiable game, which is which is FIFA. EA Sports FC is the new name of it. I will call it
00:05:27FIFA until the day I die. I play that game more than I play every other game combined. And I need
00:05:32that game. That's it. That's literally like, that is the entirety of where I am. And I want to buy
00:05:38something. And I want you to tell me what to buy. Why? Why is that your game? Why is that your game?
00:05:44Because I have an answer for you. But the answer has just been foiled by the fact that you have
00:05:48picked a game, which and I quote, runs a this program encountered E11100B during initialization
00:05:57error message when you try to run it on a Steam Deck. So I guess I'm not going to tell you to buy
00:06:02a Steam Deck. My worry was this is going to be the shortest first cast in history because I was going
00:06:07to say all that and you were both going to say Steam Deck and then we were going to hang up and
00:06:10move on with our lives. If it were not for this one game that I require, is the world sort of
00:06:16that simple at this particular moment? Yeah, it kind of is. And maybe it won't be in like,
00:06:23okay, two weeks in two weeks or so through is it three weeks, there will be a Windows handheld
00:06:29with a battery that is bigger than any other handheld on the market. And maybe that will
00:06:33solve the issue of Windows handhelds don't have great battery life that won't solve all the other
00:06:37problems with the Windows handheld. I'm gonna say, David, you're, you're, you know, you're on
00:06:42the verge cast. So I feel very comfortable saying, you like to tinker, you enjoy a little tinkering.
00:06:48So I do when I don't, I will say what I'm I am willing to tinker. Like if it's a matter of I need
00:06:54to like buy this thing and spend a couple of hours like downloading and tweaking and doing whatever I
00:06:59need to get it set up, fine. I am not buying a thing with the intention of screwing with it
00:07:06forever. I would like this thing to play video games. And I want to be able to sit down on my
00:07:10couch and be playing video games as quickly as possible. That's actually very important to me.
00:07:15Would you spend those two hours you hear me out? Would you spend those two hours
00:07:20setting up your Steam Deck to dual boot Windows off of an SD card occasionally with the one
00:07:28non negotiable game that apparently you must have you can get FIFA on the Steam Deck without doing
00:07:34dual boot? I was I was looking this up. Tell me more. Um, you will need to be comfortable
00:07:42diving into the Linux side of Steam Deck. Okay, and do some tweaking. And also,
00:07:47does it have to be FIFA 24? Yes. Oh, it can't can't be FIFA 23. Well, no, it actually what's
00:07:56important is that it's going to be 25 in like six weeks. And it's actually what I need is that one.
00:08:01Do you have to play it online? Because the anti cheat that's that's the problem here. Yeah,
00:08:06insisting on its own version of anti cheat instead of the ones that actually work on the Steam Deck.
00:08:10Yeah, I need to be online. Well, I feel like the other FIFA games have appeared in Xbox Cloud.
00:08:17And I feel like this one would also appear in Xbox Cloud. That was my next thought.
00:08:21You make a very good point here, which is a thing that I should have said I don't need to
00:08:24be able to play this game on the first day that it is available. I just need to play it at some
00:08:28point. Yeah. And what I have discovered about the video game world is that those things are very
00:08:33different. Like when things come to Game Pass, and there's stuff that comes to PlayStation's
00:08:37cloud stuff later on, that isn't there like day and date when they release like, the reason I
00:08:42picked this game that matters is because I can just like get lost down this impossible universe
00:08:47with any game that I want. And it's all very complicated. But just just to tie off the one
00:08:51piece of this, if all I was saying is I want a handheld thing to play games on and I did not
00:08:56give you any specific games. Yeah. Is the answer like the Steam Deck and it's not even close?
00:09:01Yeah, it really is. It really is the Steam Deck. We're in this moment where all of these
00:09:09other companies are like, we want a piece of that Steam Deck actions, but we're going to build it
00:09:13on Windows, because gamers tell us that Windows is where all of the games are. And they want to
00:09:18just be able to play the games they already own, which is true, which is true. But the reality
00:09:24is that the Steam Deck plays Windows games, and it plays more of them better than a native
00:09:30Windows system plays Windows games. What is the problem with the native Windows system?
00:09:35Because Windows is built for computers, for laptops and desktops and things you use with a
00:09:42mouse and at least 13 inch display. And then you put that on a seven inch display. And instead of
00:09:49a mouse, you have a joystick. Okay, that sounds awful. Now that I'm thinking this through,
00:09:54that sounds like a nightmare. That part's kind of it. You can, if you want to spend your two hours
00:09:59of setup, you can certainly spend 10 minutes of them setting up Steam to launch every time you
00:10:05launch your Windows computer, enter launch right into big picture mode. And then you have an
00:10:09interface that's similar to the Steam Deck, but it doesn't have the ability to like tweak the
00:10:15handheld very easily so that you get great battery life. The chips won't give you great
00:10:19battery life to begin with, because there's all that other overhead for all the other shit you
00:10:22don't need in Windows. Sometimes you'll turn off your Windows system, you'll put it to sleep,
00:10:27and you'll turn it back on again and wake it up again. And all of a sudden your app will be gone.
00:10:31And where did it go? I wonder why it isn't full screen anymore. It's this tiny icon on the Windows
00:10:35taskbar. That's not great. Sometimes it won't wake up from sleep. It'll have restarted itself.
00:10:41I'm having like netbook flashbacks to 10 years ago, as you're describing this.
00:10:45Sometimes for some reason, I can't get it to stop asking for the password
00:10:49when I open one of my Windows game consoles. And so then I have to like figure out how to
00:10:54get the accessibility keyboard up, which always takes at least five minutes, and then very
00:11:00carefully type in the password, which is super long because I like to be safe. It's my favorite
00:11:06thing to do. David, you don't want to do that? This is not the most compelling case you've ever
00:11:10made, Alex. But wait, Sean, you alluded to maybe there is something coming that
00:11:14solves this problem for me. Okay. Not most of these problems, but the battery life problem.
00:11:21Asus with the ROG Ally. The ROG Ally, they're going to hop on me. So the ROG Ally came out
00:11:28a year ago as like a Steam Deck, but worse in almost every way, except that it had a better
00:11:35screen, a variable refresh rate screen. It has since been surpassed by the Steam Deck OLED,
00:11:38which has an OLED screen that goes 90 Hertz. I'm going to stop getting into the weeds,
00:11:42but they're coming out with a new version of that later this month that will have a doubled
00:11:48battery in it and all kinds of other creature comforts. It'll be more comfortable to hold.
00:11:53In the year since they shipped the original ROG Ally, the UI has gotten a little bit better.
00:11:59It's smoother. Like Tom Warren likes his, I think he might prefer that over the Steam Deck. He is a
00:12:05notorious Windows fan boy. That's why he doesn't count. I think it's going to be very possibly
00:12:11the first Windows handheld that I can recommend because they've gotten so many things right,
00:12:17but it fundamentally still runs Windows and Microsoft has not improved Windows in any
00:12:23meaningful way in the year and a half, two years since Steam Deck came out.
00:12:27They could though, right? Like we've been hearing a lot of rumors that they're going to introduce
00:12:31some sort of Xbox handheld in the next couple of years that will very likely run on Windows
00:12:35because technically the Xbox runs on that. There's like the opportunity. I feel like a lot,
00:12:40remember when AMD was having its big resurgence, NVIDIA was the game GPU, and then AMD was like,
00:12:47we're going to start doing this again. And the difference was NVIDIA actually did software
00:12:52and made the games work really, really well, whereas AMD didn't for at least a year or two.
00:12:56That's where the Windows handhelds are. No one's done those really important software tweaks.
00:13:01So the Steam Deck is better.
00:13:03But Microsoft would have to be like, we're going to ship a different OS on it. We're going to ship
00:13:07a version of Windows that's so stripped down, you don't recognize it as Windows anymore.
00:13:11Look, if it opens EA Origins, then like, I'm fine.
00:13:14EA is one of the Achilles of the Steam Deck. You brought up FIFA. FIFA, EA games will notoriously,
00:13:20particularly if you need online, they will just break on Steam Deck because EA does not give a
00:13:26shit about Valve's handheld and they'll just like change their stupid mandatory like DRM app all
00:13:32the time. It used to be called Origin, now it's like EA App, and games will just break there on
00:13:35Steam Deck. But everything else works pretty good. But they do participate in cloud gaming.
00:13:40Most of their stuff is available on the various cloud gaming platforms,
00:13:43and all of those work on the Steam Deck. And you can get them up and running pretty quickly
00:13:48and then not have to like constantly go into the Linux backend to tweak them just the one time.
00:13:52Meaning like I could do like Steam Deck plus Game Pass and solve my problem?
00:13:59Yes.
00:13:59Is this a good idea?
00:14:00Yeah, you could do that. You could stream your Sony PS4 from there so you don't have to like
00:14:06sit in front of it to play The Last of Us.
00:14:08Oh, yeah. We can stream your Xbox and your PlayStation and cloud to the Steam Deck. It
00:14:14does all these things.
00:14:15I'm glad you brought this up because this is a thing I have deeply investigated and have come
00:14:20up with is just a terrible nightmare that I will not subject myself to. There are things about
00:14:26remote streaming your own console that are really great. And they immediately fall apart as soon as
00:14:32you get anywhere outside of your house. Like it just doesn't...
00:14:36Do you need to play Thief outside your house?
00:14:37I do. Like for me, honestly, the two biggest things I'm trying to solve in switching from
00:14:43this console on my desk to the handheld is I want to play other places in my house than at this desk,
00:14:49which is a victory for console streaming. And I want to play when I travel,
00:14:53in part because I'm addicted to this game and it's set up in such a way that the mechanics
00:14:57are if you don't play every day, it's actually kind of like it's a real problem as I'm describing
00:15:00this. But this is where I'm at in life. And the console streaming thing is great for the first
00:15:05thing. Like I can sit upstairs on my couch and play my PS4 on like an iPad. And it actually
00:15:12works passably well. Total non-starter trying to stream any stuff over the Internet. I just
00:15:17it's just not even worth it.
00:15:19This goes for all streaming.
00:15:20Yeah, I agree.
00:15:20All streaming breaks down once you leave your house because you no longer have control over
00:15:25making sure you have a good Internet connection. If you're out there like on 5G,
00:15:29if you have a great 5G signal and nobody else in the node is using it right then,
00:15:33yeah, you can have a great streaming experience. But I would sit I would sit in, you know,
00:15:36a hospital waiting room or out in a cafe and I'd be using that that razor device,
00:15:41which could only really do cloud streaming. And I would have a beautiful streaming experience
00:15:46that would drop out five minutes later and be completely unplayable over and over and over again.
00:15:51I had that experience with cloud gaming, with a good cloud gaming service like GeForce Now.
00:15:56Great service. This connection would not maintain it. Now, if you're talking about
00:15:59going over to a friend's house, which your friend also has amazing Internet at home
00:16:04and you want to stream from Xbox cloud, they're great. That could that could that could work
00:16:08great.
00:16:08I was just assuming that David has like a hotspot with him at all time that gives him brilliant
00:16:12Internet 90 percent of the time.
00:16:15To be honest, I do a lot. It's called it's called an iPad Pro with cell connection,
00:16:20and it's actually like an unbelievably great hotspot. The problem is I'll give you the
00:16:24worst case scenario for my own gaming usage is on an Amtrak train from D.C. to New York.
00:16:31And at that point, realistically, what I need is games I can play offline, right,
00:16:34which I think just rules out full reliance on game streaming services.
00:16:38Like I actually this is why I'm compelled by the combination of Steam Deck and Game Pass.
00:16:44Like I can do mostly online stuff and like I have I don't need to be able to play FIFA
00:16:49online while I'm on Amtrak Wi-Fi.
00:16:50That's like not possible in the world that we live in. So I'm fine with that.
00:16:54But I need to be able to do something on that thing when I have crappy connection.
00:16:58And the idea of just having like a brick in my hands when the Wi-Fi is bad feels bad.
00:17:04I do have one other suggestion, and it is actually even more basic than the Steam Deck.
00:17:10And it's a switch.
00:17:11I'm glad you brought this up.
00:17:13It's it's like the Steam Deck gives you all of the customization and gives you
00:17:18it's like a Swiss Army knife.
00:17:20The switch is like just a really good K-bar.
00:17:22Like it's good for one thing.
00:17:24And that's playing the games that Nintendo is OK with you playing on it.
00:17:27And one of those games is EA Sports FC 24, the dumbest name game in soccer.
00:17:34But you're still not going to play it online on the Amtrak, right?
00:17:36No, but so I have almost landed there, except and Kranz, I'm glad you brought this up,
00:17:41because I want to know what you guys think right now.
00:17:44Feels like a stupid time to buy a switch.
00:17:46It feels like the end of a switch cycle.
00:17:48They have already talked about the next one.
00:17:50Like the switch pile accounts are still very good,
00:17:52but this feels like a ridiculous time to buy a switch.
00:17:55It is absolutely the end of the switch cycle there.
00:17:58They're delaying it a little bit.
00:18:00They're not like they don't want to come out right away and do switch to they're
00:18:03biding their time, probably because they want to get some great software lined up for it.
00:18:07And I imagine that that software,
00:18:10if you want to play a Metroid Prime 4 or whatever the next game is that Nintendo does,
00:18:14it probably won't work as well on the current switch,
00:18:18because the current switch is not only seven years old in terms of its processing power,
00:18:22but also was already weak to begin with.
00:18:26Like when you played Zelda Breath of the Wild on day one on the switch
00:18:30and you go to the forest where the Master Sword is like it's choppy.
00:18:34It was choppy then.
00:18:36It was choppy seven years ago, you know?
00:18:38I was like FIFA will look like a bunch of potatoes are on a big green field,
00:18:42but you'll know what those potatoes are,
00:18:44and you'll be able to control all the little potatoes.
00:18:47So like if the control of the potatoes is important and not how they look,
00:18:51the switch could be a notch.
00:18:53Because there's a lot of good deals right now,
00:18:54because there's a ton of different ones.
00:18:56Like I just recently picked up the new Zelda one,
00:19:00because somebody left it on a plane and I bought it at a thrift store.
00:19:03Have you played the new Zelda yet?
00:19:05I have. So I actually have an OG switch,
00:19:08and it worked great and I loved it very much.
00:19:11And then it got to the point where literally the battery lasts like six minutes.
00:19:15Like it's fine. The thing is seven years old.
00:19:17I got a lot of love out of it.
00:19:19I used it for a long time and it just basically doesn't work anymore.
00:19:22And so now it's just like a pretty yellow thing that sits over there.
00:19:25Do not trade that in,
00:19:26because if it's an original switch that the battery is six minutes,
00:19:29it also means that it is hackable and you can do fun things with it.
00:19:32And it is worth money.
00:19:34Deal. Okay. Well, that's David's side business in selling old gadgets
00:19:39is a whole other thing you and I should do on this show, Sean.
00:19:42So yeah, so I think one of the outcomes I'm afraid of
00:19:46is that the answer is just wait a year,
00:19:48because there's going to be a new switch and they might fix Windows
00:19:50and maybe we'll get the Xbox thing.
00:19:52And it feels like in a weird way,
00:19:53we're in like a bad middle zone between good things.
00:19:56No, you need to get the Steam Deck with OLED and just be done and happy.
00:20:01I think what you need to do is you need to unlock,
00:20:04you need to unlock a mountain of amazing PC games you've been missing
00:20:08that are incredibly cheap and brilliant and beautiful
00:20:12and run on this handheld with an amazing screen.
00:20:14That's what you need to do.
00:20:16And it's also hackable.
00:20:17Sean, I gave you one game, one game that I need to play.
00:20:21And you're telling me that I can have everything I want,
00:20:23except the one game that I need to play.
00:20:26If you want to play Fortnite on there, it doesn't do that either.
00:20:28So unless you're going to strip that.
00:20:30I literally, I almost wrote down that the two games were Fortnite and FIFA,
00:20:33and I decided I can live without Fortnite because there are other good,
00:20:37David has an hour to kill Battle Royale games out there.
00:20:40I could, I could take or leave Fortnite at this point in my life.
00:20:42I was like, you can just use your iPad.
00:20:44That is, that is true.
00:20:45So let me float another idea by you, which is that I,
00:20:50instead of buying one thing, I buy several things.
00:20:53And, and I just acknowledge that at least for this next phase of my life,
00:20:57the right thing to do is get a PS5 and a PS portal for my house projects.
00:21:05And then I get a Steam Deck for travel.
00:21:07I have just quadrupled the amount of money that this is costing.
00:21:11Is this the outcome?
00:21:12Don't do that.
00:21:15Save your money.
00:21:16Just get like, never, ever, ever, ever, ever buy a portal.
00:21:20Unless you just have zero computer skills.
00:21:24If you have none whatsoever, if all you do,
00:21:27if you like struggle to turn your phone on, get the PSP portal.
00:21:30People love the portal.
00:21:32There are people who love the portal.
00:21:34It is selling really well.
00:21:36I would never touch one except to like, to have the knowledge of having touched one.
00:21:41Because the Steam Deck has an app on it.
00:21:44And the app is the PS portal.
00:21:45Yeah, that's in an app for your Steam Deck.
00:21:49It's called Chiaki, Chiaki for Deck.
00:21:52And it works great.
00:21:53Just make sure your PS5 or PS4 has an ethernet cable plugged into it or will not work very well.
00:21:57Don't get the PS portal because that is that's for like,
00:22:00that's for people who love to game and don't have a lot of computer skills.
00:22:04And so they're like, okay, I just need to go play right now.
00:22:08And that's great.
00:22:09But like, you spend a little bit more money, you get the Steam Deck,
00:22:12you spend a little extra time and you have just way more capability.
00:22:16Okay, all right.
00:22:16So let me let me play out this scenario.
00:22:19So what's happening here is I'm going to make sure that my PlayStation streaming setup
00:22:27is as good as possible.
00:22:28I'm going to make sure that I have an ethernet port.
00:22:31I'm going to plug my PlayStation into the Eero gateway and not the Eero in the basement.
00:22:36I'm going to make sure that my internet connection for my PlayStation is as good as possible.
00:22:42TBD on whether that's going to be a PS4 or PS5,
00:22:44we're going to see how poor I feel at the end of this episode.
00:22:47But that essentially becomes my dedicated FIFA machine,
00:22:51which is an absurd place to have landed.
00:22:53But again, here we are.
00:22:54If you've already got the PS4, I mean, why not?
00:22:57I'm relegating this thing to being my FIFA machine.
00:23:00And then I'm going to download the app you just said for the Steam Deck
00:23:04for when I want to play FIFA.
00:23:05And I'm going to play FIFA on the Steam Deck through my PlayStation, which seems ludicrous,
00:23:09but you're telling me will kind of sort of work as long as I have very good internet.
00:23:13It'll work great.
00:23:14Inside your house.
00:23:15Remote is theoretically possible, but you'll play it in your house, realistically.
00:23:19So that's my solution to the how do I play on my couch instead of in the basement problem.
00:23:25Great.
00:23:25For everything else,
00:23:26I'm just going to broaden my horizons and play less FIFA and play more other games.
00:23:30Is this what you're telling me?
00:23:32This is where I need to land.
00:23:33I feel like you can find a really good FIFA clone,
00:23:36but like they all have swords or something.
00:23:40I feel like this exists.
00:23:41Someone's made this game in alpha.
00:23:43So what is ironically possible is that because EA Sports FC is no longer called FIFA,
00:23:50somebody else is making a FIFA game and maybe that FIFA game will be on the Steam Deck,
00:23:53which will solve all of my problems all at once.
00:23:56This is what I'm hoping for.
00:23:57Done.
00:23:58And also you will write about this experience, hopefully for The Verge,
00:24:01and then EA will start taking care of its shit.
00:24:04Okay, so EA, very large company, makes a lot of very popular games.
00:24:07Is there any hope for EA on the Steam Deck ever?
00:24:10Should I have any optimism for that to be a thing?
00:24:12The Steam Deck's very popular.
00:24:13What are we doing here?
00:24:14Yeah, I mean, they just break things willy-nilly and they don't think about it.
00:24:18It's not like they don't want money.
00:24:19Yeah, EA is kind of notorious for being one of the worst companies in the United States.
00:24:25I think when Consumerist existed, it was regularly beating cable companies for being the worst
00:24:31because they put money ahead of usability frequently.
00:24:36And so they could fix it, but I don't think they have a whole lot of interest
00:24:40because most of their players, the bulk of their audience, it's on the Switch.
00:24:44It's on the PlayStation.
00:24:46Okay, one other Steam Deck question.
00:24:48The one other thing I forgot to mention is I do want to be able to
00:24:51plug this thing into a large screen and play it.
00:24:54I don't think that's the most common use case for me,
00:24:57but I do want to be able to sit in front of a television and play it like a console
00:25:02as I normally would.
00:25:03And for me with the Switch, I have done that way less than I expected
00:25:06because you have to have such specific hardware to pull that off.
00:25:10And carrying around the dock is annoying.
00:25:11And I bought the little plug thing and that helped, but then I lost that.
00:25:15And so I want something that is a little easier to turn
00:25:18into a full-fledged console when I want to.
00:25:20Is the Steam Deck good at that?
00:25:22You're still going to need a little dongle to mirror things.
00:25:27Dongle or dock?
00:25:28Yeah, you're going to need a dongle or dock.
00:25:29I think the official one's like, what, $100, Sean?
00:25:32It's less.
00:25:32It's, I want to say, $70, $80, something like that.
00:25:34But you can buy much cheaper than that.
00:25:36I used an off-the-shelf $35 USB-C hub that had HDMI.
00:25:41That worked.
00:25:42I used docks from like JSAW, J-S-A-U-X.
00:25:46Great company with an alphabet soup name, surprisingly, $40, $50.
00:25:50And those docks do all the things you'd want from a dock.
00:25:53It's really easy once you get one of those things to get it up there.
00:25:55The question is, is your TV like 4K and you're expecting 4K visuals
00:26:00from a console that normally plays at 800?
00:26:02Because it's not going to look as good up on a big 4K TV.
00:26:06I will say, and Liam, our producer, can vouch for this,
00:26:09the least VergeCast-y thing about me is I don't care all that much about pixel density.
00:26:13So the idea of playing like at, you know,
00:26:15medium settings and having it work okay is completely fine by me.
00:26:18I just heard Nilay screaming.
00:26:21This is the last time you'll ever hear from me on the VergeCast.
00:26:24But that is where I'm at.
00:26:26And especially with something like this,
00:26:27like battery life is much more important to me than like
00:26:30getting 10 extra frames per second.
00:26:33And so I think, again, the customizability of the Steam Deck
00:26:35to be able to like dial that up and down as I want it
00:26:38seems useful.
00:26:40You want a Steam Deck OLED.
00:26:41Like get the Steam Deck OLED.
00:26:44Every once in a while, you'll plug it into the TV.
00:26:46You'll be like, oh, I did it.
00:26:48This looks kind of shitty.
00:26:49And then you'll unplug it and go back to the really pretty OLED display
00:26:52and be very happy.
00:26:53I do suspect my Switch experience has been that I set it up
00:26:57in such a way that it was going to be really easy to dock.
00:26:59It was going to be great.
00:27:00And then most of the time I would sit on my couch in front of the TV
00:27:03and just play on my lap.
00:27:04And I would assume the Steam Deck will end up being kind of the same way.
00:27:07Yep.
00:27:07It's so good.
00:27:08We'll watch some shows together with my wife.
00:27:10And I'll have my hand held out and get to do some gaming at the same time.
00:27:14It's great.
00:27:15OK.
00:27:15Are there any other like crazy wildcard possibilities
00:27:19coming that we know of that might win?
00:27:22Like you mentioned the ROG Ally X seems like a possible improvement,
00:27:27if not sort of equal to the Steam Deck.
00:27:30Is there anything else on the horizon that in three months,
00:27:33I'm going to be like, oh, this is the one I needed?
00:27:34I don't think so.
00:27:36But there are two very different directions you could go.
00:27:39And I don't have one of them here in front of me.
00:27:41But one of them is a 10.1 inch laptop with like keys that actually feel good.
00:27:48Full size SD card reader.
00:27:50You could actually shove the SD card all the way inside.
00:27:53We've got full size USB-A ports.
00:27:56It has more ports than a MacBook.
00:27:57USB-C ports.
00:27:59There's an OcuLink port, HDMI.
00:28:02It is your dock built into it.
00:28:03And then you take these little things off and you got joysticks, a D-pad.
00:28:08And even this menu button in the center acts like an Xbox button,
00:28:12which for some reason, none of the other Windows handhelds have.
00:28:16And this thing is way expensive.
00:28:18I mean, it's twice the price of your Steam Deck.
00:28:20It costs more than any of the other handhelds,
00:28:22but it doubles as a laptop that has the power of one of those other gaming handhelds.
00:28:27And a decent sized battery, all this stuff.
00:28:29But Sean, how is it to play?
00:28:32It is a laptop first and a game handheld second.
00:28:37Such a perfect gadget because that is both the stupidest thing I've ever seen.
00:28:41And I want it so bad.
00:28:43Right?
00:28:45It's beautiful.
00:28:46It's like, what if instead of the touch bar,
00:28:48we just put a PlayStation controller in pieces?
00:28:51I love it.
00:28:53I can't get over the boss mode.
00:28:55Like you got this thing and you're like,
00:28:57no, I can't show my game pad at work.
00:28:59Let's take this little metal.
00:29:01Let's take this little slip of metal out of the back of the thing and drop it on top.
00:29:05Boss mode.
00:29:06It's a physical boss mode.
00:29:08Yeah.
00:29:08Okay.
00:29:09Moving on from that.
00:29:10Okay, so your other possibility is you could embrace software piracy
00:29:16and you could buy one of these things,
00:29:18which looks like a Game Boy Advance SP.
00:29:21This is the Ember Deck thing,
00:29:23but actually just comes with thousands of pirated games.
00:29:26And so you could play all your Game Boy Advance and PlayStation games on this.
00:29:30And you delete the pirated games first and dump your own ROMs or something like that.
00:29:34As I always do.
00:29:35As you do.
00:29:36Yes.
00:29:36I feel like Anibrick's already going to get
00:29:39wrecked for you just saying, yeah, it comes with all of the pirated games on it.
00:29:42Every time Sean talks about one of these, there was, I think you did a TikTok,
00:29:46Sean, talking about the new Anibrick thing.
00:29:48And every single comment was like, Sean, be cool, man.
00:29:51Stop telling people about me.
00:29:53Give me my free game.
00:29:55TikTok shop is all over this thing.
00:29:58It's been snitched on enough.
00:29:59Just to illustrate, though, that the EA, the EA FIFA game is not a Steam Deck problem.
00:30:05The top comment on EA Sports FC24 is EA FC24 not launching on PC after anti-cheat back to EA app.
00:30:14So it's not a Steam Deck thing so much as it is an EA doesn't care thing.
00:30:18Interesting.
00:30:19Okay.
00:30:19So it truly is EA is like, there are ways you could get around the rules that we have.
00:30:24So we're just taking our ball and going home.
00:30:26Yep.
00:30:27That doesn't feel like it's getting better anytime soon.
00:30:29That does not give me hope for the for improvements coming here,
00:30:32which also means, listen, there's there's a lot of sports games.
00:30:36This means I can't play anymore.
00:30:37But now I'm gonna have to get into, like, cool nerd games.
00:30:40It's gonna be great.
00:30:41You can play them streaming.
00:30:42That's true.
00:30:43Steam Deck plus Game Pass, I think, is starting to feel like the realist answer I have here.
00:30:48You'll have Halo and FIFA.
00:30:50Like, you will be the hit of every frat party you go to.
00:30:54Okay, last question.
00:30:56And then and then we have to go.
00:30:59Am I stupid for buying a Steam Deck right now,
00:31:01in the same way that I might be stupid for buying a Switch right now?
00:31:03Where are we in the Steam Deck cycle?
00:31:06We're fine, right?
00:31:07We're mid.
00:31:07Yeah, we're mid cycle.
00:31:09We're not late yet.
00:31:11The thing that Valve needs, they've told us, like, told me to my face,
00:31:16what they need to see is they need to see a major improvement in performance
00:31:21without sacrificing battery life from a chip manufacturer
00:31:25before they start building the next true Steam Deck.
00:31:29And I've heard this from other companies too, like Asus with the ROG Ally X.
00:31:32They were like, we don't think we can get it right now,
00:31:34so we're going to ship the ROG Ally X with the same chip.
00:31:37And I don't think Qualcomm has changed that calculus at all with the Snapdragon.
00:31:42And even if it has, we're a ways away from that actually appearing inside of a product.
00:31:47Yeah, I think we're probably a good, we're at least a year out.
00:31:50I think you'll have one beautiful, blissful year before you get FOMO, at least.
00:31:55Okay. And that's, I mean, honestly, in gadget world, that's all you can ask for.
00:31:59It's like a year is an eternity in gadget world.
00:32:02I mean, listen, I've made it this far into the PS5 cycle without upgrading.
00:32:06Like, it turns out I can manage my FOMO on this one.
00:32:09I am so impressed.
00:32:11That's actually the other question I should ask is like,
00:32:13am I being ridiculous?
00:32:14Should I just buy a PS5 and move on with my life?
00:32:16Ooh.
00:32:17I mean, have infinite, if you have infinite money, yes.
00:32:21If I buy a PS5, I almost certainly will end up buying a Portal.
00:32:25And I hate myself for it, but it will probably happen.
00:32:28Then I say don't, because I want to save you from the Portal.
00:32:32You could buy a used Steam Deck LCD for the price of a Portal
00:32:35and also have a Portal built into it with an app.
00:32:37Oh, well, that's very compelling.
00:32:38But PS5, like, if you do love that I'm sitting on my couch with my 4K OLED TV experience,
00:32:46it's hard to beat the PS5 for that.
00:32:48I'm playing Spider-Man 2 on it right now on just a gorgeous new OLED panel
00:32:52that was deep discounted recently.
00:32:54And wow, the pop of that city, the lights at night, it's really something.
00:33:00Yeah.
00:33:00And I do love that.
00:33:01But I think I am increasingly coming around to, like,
00:33:05having a thing with me is more important than the sort of very best possible experience.
00:33:12I would love to have both, but I don't think you can really have both right now
00:33:15in the world we live in.
00:33:16And if you really want to have that thing with you,
00:33:19I don't think there's anything that beats the Steam Deck.
00:33:22There's just so much you can now take with you that you can't,
00:33:25the same way through the Windows handhelds, you can't really with Android.
00:33:29All right, well, we have ended where we began,
00:33:31which I find very frustrating, but also sort of telling.
00:33:34I'm going to buy a Steam Deck.
00:33:35Yeah!
00:33:36I probably should have bought a Steam Deck a really long time ago.
00:33:38I'm going to buy a Steam Deck, and I will start yelling loudly at EA.
00:33:42I will report back.
00:33:43I'm so excited for you.
00:33:45Everybody's excited about the EA, though.
00:33:46Do you have any immediate setup tips?
00:33:48Before we talk again, I will have purchased a Steam Deck.
00:33:51What should I do immediately out of the box with my brand new Steam Deck OLED?
00:33:54I have so many nerdy suggestions.
00:33:56I don't want nerdy suggestions, Sean.
00:33:58I say this with love.
00:33:59I want to get to playing games well as quickly and seamlessly as possible.
00:34:05I am worried about the Steam Deck because I'm worried it's so fidgety and finicky
00:34:08that I'm going to spend my whole life goofing with the joysticks and not playing games.
00:34:13So Steam Deck has this, like, on the Steam Deck, they have compatibility for games,
00:34:18and you can also see it on the Steam software.
00:34:20So, like, you can just go download Steam ahead of time, find some games you like,
00:34:23make sure they're compatible, and then it'll be just out of the box, ready to go.
00:34:27Anything that's, like, yellow or red, you'll have to mess with a little bit.
00:34:31That's where you have to start tweaking things.
00:34:33Like, I try to play Crusader Kings on it.
00:34:34Don't.
00:34:35That's, it's not for the Steam Deck.
00:34:37It's terrible.
00:34:38There's even a tab in the store where you can just, like,
00:34:41only show me games that work well with the Steam Deck.
00:34:43And for the most part, they do.
00:34:46Yeah, and it's a lot of stuff, right?
00:34:48Like, it's a ton of stuff.
00:34:49The ones that don't is stuff that's, like, Mass Effect, which is an EA game.
00:34:53So you know why it doesn't work well.
00:34:55I will say the other game in my life that I have loved with my whole heart,
00:34:58the way that I have loved FIFA with my whole heart, is Portal.
00:35:02And the idea of having a Steam thing that will let me play the Portal games forever
00:35:05is very exciting.
00:35:06And just straight out of the box, you'll be off to the races, having a great time.
00:35:11Yeah, it really is so easy to just get going on the Steam Deck,
00:35:16provided you already own games.
00:35:18Elden Ring plays well there.
00:35:21Ori and the Will of the Wisps, if you haven't played that yet, play that on the Deck OLED.
00:35:24Oh my god, it looks brilliant on the Deck OLED.
00:35:27That game is made for HDR.
00:35:29Persona 5, have you played any Persona games?
00:35:32Bits and pieces, but never, never super deeply.
00:35:34Okay, get Persona 5 or Persona 5 Royal, whichever one is better for your budget,
00:35:39play that on Steam Deck.
00:35:40It's, it's, it's epic.
00:35:42We could, we could spend the rest, we've spent another hour talking about games to play on.
00:35:45Yeah, I was about to say, have you played Final Fantasy Remake yet?
00:35:49Like, beautiful on the Steam Deck.
00:35:50All right, my list is long and none of them are the only game that I need it.
00:35:54But, you know, we're doing the best we can here.
00:35:56You can get FIFA 23 fairly easily on the Steam Deck.
00:36:00Okay, that might help.
00:36:01Maybe that's like my gateway drug out of being obsessed with FIFA.
00:36:06I'll just play old games enough to satiate me and then go play better games.
00:36:10You get Ted Lasso in that one.
00:36:11You'll be fine.
00:36:14All right, thank you both.
00:36:15This was very helpful.
00:36:16I'm going to go spend a bunch of money.
00:36:17Great.
00:36:18All right, we got to take a break and then we're going to come back
00:36:21and we're going to talk wearables.
00:36:22Specifically, one feature about wearables.
00:36:32Welcome back.
00:36:33So before we get into the next thing, one last note on that last segment.
00:36:37Listening back to it, I realize I don't know that I actually solved any of my problems.
00:36:42It was a really interesting discussion,
00:36:44and I think the place we landed is the right one for almost everybody.
00:36:48But I was realizing, listening back,
00:36:50that actually one of the games I'm most excited about this year
00:36:53is the new college football game,
00:36:55which is also an EA game and is also probably not going to be on the Steam Deck.
00:36:59So for me now, I go from one game that I play a ton that doesn't work on the Steam Deck
00:37:04to two games that I'm probably going to play a ton that won't be on the Steam Deck.
00:37:08So I don't know what to do.
00:37:10I think I'll probably still buy a Steam Deck,
00:37:12ideally with a good return policy,
00:37:14just to really get into it and play with it and get used to it.
00:37:17But I don't know that I've solved my problem.
00:37:18And I think I'm not alone.
00:37:20These are very popular games.
00:37:21The EA stuff is huge.
00:37:23Game streaming is going to solve a lot of problems for a lot of people, but hasn't yet.
00:37:27So I'm still stuck.
00:37:28I haven't bought anything yet.
00:37:29If you have ideas, please let me know.
00:37:31VirgCast at TheVirg.com.
00:37:33Call the hotline 866-VIRG11.
00:37:35What do you think I should buy?
00:37:36Tell me everything.
00:37:37I'm still so torn.
00:37:38I think Sean and Alex gave really good advice,
00:37:40but I don't know if I've actually solved my problem yet.
00:37:43Anyway, let's get into the next thing.
00:37:44Every once in a while on the show, we like to test some microphones.
00:37:48I think this stuff really matters,
00:37:50and it doesn't get talked about a lot when we talk about headphones
00:37:52and when we talk about wearable devices.
00:37:55We talk to our gadgets a lot.
00:37:57And if you believe that AI is the future of how we talk to gadgets,
00:38:01it's going to get more vocal over time.
00:38:03Microphones really matter.
00:38:05Whether you're just talking to Siri to set reminders,
00:38:07which is a thing I do constantly, all day, every day,
00:38:10or it's going to be how you talk to chat GPT or your robot AI best friend for forever.
00:38:17Microphones really matter.
00:38:19And we've tested a lot of earbuds.
00:38:21We actually probably overdue for an earbuds test.
00:38:24But the thing that we haven't really done
00:38:26is maybe one of the wearable categories I'm most excited about,
00:38:30which I'll say, broadly speaking, is face gadgets.
00:38:34You have things like the MetaQuest 3 and the Vision Pro.
00:38:37You also have things like the Meta Smart Glasses and Amazon's Echo Frames.
00:38:41And the idea of just a thing you wear on front of your eyes,
00:38:45on your face, that is a super powerful computer.
00:38:48I think we're at the very beginning of that genre of gadget,
00:38:53but I already think there's a lot of interesting stuff out there.
00:38:55So as we do, it's time to do a microphone test.
00:38:58I asked Vsong, who has almost all of these gadgets,
00:39:01somewhat remarkably just lying around her house,
00:39:04to come on and do some tests with us.
00:39:06So we're going to hear how it all sounds.
00:39:08Let's go.
00:39:09Vsong, welcome back.
00:39:11Thanks for having me again.
00:39:13You and I have done so much stuff together recently.
00:39:15This is very exciting.
00:39:16This is terrible for you and great for me.
00:39:18I'm happy about it.
00:39:19So I have brought you here for the thing I have been very excited to do for months,
00:39:23because what I have discovered in my own life is that now,
00:39:27when I take a phone call and I'm at home,
00:39:30instead of holding my phone to my ear, I actually put on the Meta Smart Glasses.
00:39:34And that is now my hands-free phone experience.
00:39:37And I love it very much.
00:39:38And I have found myself wondering a lot how I sound to other people when I do that.
00:39:42So you and I are going to do, I think,
00:39:44maybe the most ambitious microphone test we've ever done on this show,
00:39:48because it involves a deeply weird set of gadgets.
00:39:51And I'm very excited about it.
00:39:52I spent so much time yesterday and this morning prepping the gadgets
00:39:58just for the technical logistics of all of it.
00:40:01And I looked ridiculous at every step of the way.
00:40:04So.
00:40:05As it should be.
00:40:06So yeah, okay.
00:40:06Run me through the list of all the stuff we're about to test,
00:40:09which is basically like every weird face gadget in V's house.
00:40:14You know, it's a very thoughtful selection of the weird face gadgets in my house.
00:40:18So we have the Razer Anzu, which are a productivity pair of smart glasses.
00:40:24You know, they marketed as basically like smart glasses for hands-free calls.
00:40:29And when you're on your computer that has blue light, what do you call these lenses?
00:40:34So we have those.
00:40:35Then we have the Ray-Ban Meta Smart Glasses.
00:40:38We have the Apple Vision Pro.
00:40:41And we have the MetaQuest 3.
00:40:43Amazing.
00:40:44I will say the only one in this category I feel like we don't have
00:40:47in here is probably the Echo Frames.
00:40:50I think anecdotally, no one seems to care about the Echo Frames.
00:40:54So I don't feel that bad leaving it out.
00:40:55But I do think it's like, it's like the one in this category
00:40:57that I'm curious about that we're not testing.
00:40:59So we'll have to come back and do that another time.
00:41:01Yeah, well, I do have a pair.
00:41:03I just moved not that long ago and then did spring cleaning.
00:41:06So the charger, where is the charger?
00:41:08I have been tearing my house apart for the charger.
00:41:11Because it's a weird charger.
00:41:13Okay, this is a good point.
00:41:15It's not just a USB-C port, which is what all chargers should be.
00:41:19It's a stupid like stand that you have to stick them on top of.
00:41:24And if you don't push them down at the right angle in the right way,
00:41:27it doesn't work.
00:41:28It's one of the worst chargers I've ever used.
00:41:29I hate it.
00:41:30It's also the glasses that stay on my face the least
00:41:33because I have a low nose bridge and it just slips down.
00:41:36That's my problem with the Meta Smart Glasses.
00:41:39So I'm sort of hoping that the Meta ones don't win
00:41:42so that I can convince myself to buy something else.
00:41:45But we're going to see how this goes.
00:41:46So before we dive in, I think the one caveat we should provide here
00:41:50is that so far you're talking into your podcast mic.
00:41:53So I would say this is kind of the gold standard of the audio that you should hear.
00:41:57Anything that we test is going to be compared to this.
00:42:00There are a couple that we're about to test that are Bluetooth devices.
00:42:03So you're going to be pairing Bluetooth devices to your computer.
00:42:06So you're going to get whatever Bluetooth weirdness exists.
00:42:09But I would say that's fine because that's pretty indicative of normal Bluetooth weirdness.
00:42:13Like most of the time people are talking through Bluetooth gadgets.
00:42:16So we're going to do that.
00:42:17But then there's a couple.
00:42:18I think the headsets are going to be basically treated like microphones on computers
00:42:23because we're actually going to be able to do it natively inside of the device.
00:42:27So we'll talk about those when we get to those.
00:42:29But let's just dive in.
00:42:30Which one do you want to do first?
00:42:31I've got the Anzu on right now.
00:42:33So let's just do that because I swear to God,
00:42:36this is going to be a logistical nightmare when we're switching.
00:42:38I cannot wait.
00:42:39This is one of those times where podcast editing becomes very, very, very helpful
00:42:44because you don't have to listen to us fiddle with Bluetooth settings.
00:42:47But all right.
00:42:47Let's dive in.
00:42:48Let's go.
00:42:50All right.
00:42:50I am talking.
00:42:51I am saying a sentence.
00:42:53And your face is like saying that it does not sound good.
00:42:57This is terrible.
00:42:59This is like, okay, how would I describe it?
00:43:01You sound like you're on a phone call on speakerphone,
00:43:05but you've done the thing where you put your phone down
00:43:08on the kitchen counter while we're talking.
00:43:10And then you've like walked into the other room.
00:43:12Cool.
00:43:13Love it.
00:43:14I can imagine what that sounds like.
00:43:16And, you know, I don't, I'm not really sure where the mics are on this particular thing,
00:43:22but I don't think they're like the Meta Ray bands where the mic is in the nose bridge.
00:43:26So it's like kind of close to your mouth.
00:43:29It says that they have omni directional mics, probably in the temples.
00:43:33So if they're in the temples, that's, you know, pretty far away from the actual sound source.
00:43:38And actually in a certain way, sort of defeats the purpose of why I'm excited about these devices.
00:43:42Cause as you're talking about one of the nice things about glasses is just that they're closer
00:43:46to your mouth, right?
00:43:46We have all these Bluetooth headphones and stuff.
00:43:50They are constrained by the fact that they're on your ears.
00:43:52So they have the stems that point towards your mouth and that kind of helps.
00:43:55And they're getting smarter with the software, but fundamentally,
00:43:57like the way to get a good microphone is to put it closer to your mouth,
00:44:00where the sound is coming from.
00:44:02And it feels like Razer just sort of beefed this one.
00:44:06So to Razer's credit, I guess, defense slightly,
00:44:11these aren't necessarily meant for this kind of like communication sorts of calls, right?
00:44:16These are things you're supposed to wear like at your desk to make it
00:44:18a little less painful to look at a screen all day.
00:44:21Um, so they, you know, there's like a while where Razer was just like,
00:44:24we're not just gaming.
00:44:25We do productivity stuff too.
00:44:27Yay for the office.
00:44:29And I think this was part of that push.
00:44:31Like, yeah, they do have blue light lenses.
00:44:33So that if you're looking at the screen a lot, it's easier for you.
00:44:36They are your typical pair of glasses that are also headphones.
00:44:40So you can just listen to stuff.
00:44:42But you know, like when I took the briefing a couple years ago and was testing this,
00:44:46it was just basically like, yeah, it is meant for like productivity in the office.
00:44:51So you can take phone calls and you'll sound really great.
00:44:54So obviously that was some marketing spiel because clearly judging by your reaction,
00:45:00I do not sound that great.
00:45:02Yeah, you will not sound really great.
00:45:03I can tell you that now with great confidence.
00:45:06Um, Andrew Marino, I don't usually get to do this when we're here,
00:45:10but Andrew is our sound expert and podcast editor.
00:45:13Andrew, I want you to weigh in on all of these with me.
00:45:16What do you think of this one?
00:45:17Okay.
00:45:17So these aren't as bad as I thought.
00:45:20It is obviously a clear difference between a podcast microphone and this,
00:45:25but I don't hear a lot of background noise.
00:45:27That is true.
00:45:28That is good.
00:45:29I would actually like to hear how this sounds compared to like
00:45:32someone wearing AirPods though too, because would you prefer hearing AirPods
00:45:38microphones or would you prefer hearing the glasses microphones?
00:45:42I was just thinking about that actually.
00:45:43And I think the thing that the AirPods do that these aren't doing is at least the AirPods push
00:45:49the voice more to the center of the mix, right?
00:45:52Like it's trying really hard to like raise the volume of your voice as opposed to everything
00:45:56else.
00:45:57This feels flatter in a way that is like probably more pleasant in a certain way,
00:46:01but also just means I can like hear you less well.
00:46:04I also wonder what it would be like if, you know,
00:46:06the other proposition for glasses is that like you're on a walk,
00:46:10you can go outside and take the phone call as well.
00:46:12And, you know, outside there's a lot more ambient noise.
00:46:15There's cars, there's wind.
00:46:16I wonder what this would sound like if you were on a walk.
00:46:20Cause I've taken calls on the Meta Raygrounds while I'm on a walk and people think they're
00:46:23pretty decent, pretty good just because of where the microphone is situated.
00:46:27So I, you know, they always claim that they're great for wind.
00:46:30And I'm always like, but are they, are they?
00:46:33Yeah.
00:46:33We should say you're, you're in your house in what I would call like a relatively
00:46:38quiet space.
00:46:39This is kind of as good as it's going to be.
00:46:42We'll, we'll have to come back and do this another time with worse environments.
00:46:45But I think particularly because we had some of the headsets and these are like things you're
00:46:48mostly going to be doing inside.
00:46:50We wanted to give it its best shot.
00:46:52Yeah.
00:46:52But okay, I'm done with these.
00:46:53These are not great.
00:46:54Let, let's, let's move on.
00:46:56Let's do, let's do the Ray-Ban ones next.
00:46:58That feels like a good one-to-one comparison here.
00:47:00Let's switch to those.
00:47:01All right.
00:47:03Okay.
00:47:03This is me in the Meta.
00:47:04And I just want you to know that I'm blind because I have my contacts on and these are
00:47:09prescription lenses.
00:47:10So you are just a big blob on my phone.
00:47:12This sounds way better like night and day to the last one.
00:47:17This is actually like the sound I was hoping that this was going to give me.
00:47:21It's not like amazing.
00:47:22It's, it's definitely, I'm hearing a lot of compression on your voice.
00:47:26It's, it's like clearly trying very hard to get your voice and cancel even not a lot of
00:47:30background noise.
00:47:31But this sounds great.
00:47:33I should say also you're on your phone to do this.
00:47:36Normally you record these things on your computer, but because of the weirdness of these glasses,
00:47:41you had an easier time connecting them to your phone than to your computer because Bluetooth
00:47:46is dumb and bad and complicated and nobody is good at it.
00:47:48But you sound really good to me.
00:47:50Yeah.
00:47:50So this was like one of the limitations that Becca pointed out when we were both doing
00:47:55the Ray-Ban Meta testing and she like went all in on the microphone testing for these.
00:48:00And it's just not really all that easy to, you know, connect with your computer while
00:48:06having these on.
00:48:07This is just a very phone first kind of pairing situation, which is a little annoying, but
00:48:13great.
00:48:13If you want to take these outside, I think, and just like walk around and take calls while
00:48:19you're, I do that all the time.
00:48:20Like I'll be on a walk and a friend will call and I'll just gab and people will look at
00:48:25me crazy because I don't have the social cue of having AirPods in my ear.
00:48:30And these just look like a normal pair of glasses.
00:48:32So I just look like a psycho.
00:48:35Well, and right now you have sunglasses on indoors, which I would say it's like an extremely
00:48:38cool move.
00:48:39Is it, is it, is it, is it cool?
00:48:42Who can say also like, yeah, so I got these sent with prescription lenses as sunglasses
00:48:48and I was like, I would have loved it if these were the transition lenses, but alas, I have
00:48:55the transitions and they're awesome.
00:48:57My dad who does not have smart glasses just has transition lenses in his regular glasses
00:49:03and we made fun of him about it for so long because it's like you go inside and for four
00:49:08minutes you just have sunglasses on and we always used to make fun of it.
00:49:11And like, boy, has history proven him right?
00:49:13Like congrats dad, you made transition lenses a thing.
00:49:16They are great.
00:49:16I'm, I'm a fan.
00:49:18So the thing that I like about these, this is the one where they put the microphone like
00:49:22right next to your nose, right?
00:49:23So it's, it's sort of perfectly where it should be to sound good here.
00:49:27Yeah, there's, I believe there's five microphones in the glasses at various points, but the
00:49:32one that captures your voice is just right in the nose bridge.
00:49:36So it's like right above your mouth.
00:49:38So like, I think that was the kind of low key genius move that they did with these compared
00:49:45to the other smart glasses that I've tested.
00:49:47So I got to say, I really enjoy these as my outdoor walk, outdoor.
00:49:52I wear these while running too.
00:49:53And it's pretty great as like a pair of open ear headphones.
00:49:58I can take calls.
00:49:59The sunglasses are great.
00:50:00The sound quality is great.
00:50:01So I just wish I had transition lenses because then I could just use these all the time.
00:50:06That'd be great.
00:50:06Totally.
00:50:07Andrew, what do you think?
00:50:08Yeah, these sound better than the Razer ones.
00:50:11I wouldn't be mad at all about this as far as like Bluetooth goes.
00:50:15It's pretty, pretty good.
00:50:16Yeah, I agree.
00:50:17This is definitely one that is like notably better than AirPods.
00:50:21And it just, you feel much closer, which is really nice.
00:50:24Like a lot of the things, and this was the challenge with the Razer one is a lot of Bluetooth
00:50:28headphones just make you feel sort of far away because you are far away.
00:50:32This one, you feel much closer to the mic, which makes you feel much closer to me as
00:50:37we're talking, which is very cool.
00:50:39This one I'm calling a victory.
00:50:40Let's move on to some of the other ones.
00:50:42What do we have next?
00:50:43We have your pick of which headset, the Vision Pro or the MetaQuest.
00:50:48Let's start with the Quest because I would assume that the Vision Pro is going to sound
00:50:52better.
00:50:53But also, I think more people have Quest.
00:50:55So let's let's start with Quest.
00:50:56This is going to be logistically fraught.
00:51:00We're going to play some hold music.
00:51:01We'll be back in like 45 minutes once we get this set up.
00:51:03Okay.
00:51:04Let's do it.
00:51:04All right.
00:51:06MetaQuest.
00:51:07Is this the Quest 2 or the Quest 3 that we're on here, V?
00:51:10Quest 3, I believe.
00:51:11Yeah, Quest 3.
00:51:12All right, let's hear it.
00:51:13How do we sound?
00:51:14I am talking.
00:51:15Supposedly, you can hear me, even though this gave me a lot of grief about there being no
00:51:20microphone while logging into this.
00:51:22So it's very confusing.
00:51:24Okay, this sounds really good.
00:51:25This is kind of right in line with the smart glasses, actually, which I'm realizing now
00:51:29it's two meta products that sit on your face.
00:51:32Maybe there's some shared technology there, but I don't know how that didn't occur to
00:51:36me until just now.
00:51:37But yeah, you sound pretty good.
00:51:39This is just another big microphone on your face.
00:51:43And this is another one that I think they put the microphone pretty centrally on the
00:51:48thing.
00:51:48So it might even be closer to your mouth than the smart glasses.
00:51:52Oh, it certainly is weighing on my head.
00:51:54So it feels like it's falling on my face more than the smart glasses.
00:51:58It's going to be on top of your mouth here in a couple of minutes as you're trying to
00:52:01talk.
00:52:01It'll be good.
00:52:02Yeah, it's actually because I don't have it super tight on the back because I get headaches
00:52:08when these are too tight.
00:52:09Oh, there we go.
00:52:10There we go.
00:52:11Okay, so what I what I also want to know is tell me about the experience of getting into
00:52:16this call from the quest, because there's like, one of the things that meta would really
00:52:22like to convince you of is that eventually a VR headset is going to be a work tool.
00:52:25And you can you just like open up a browser and use it for Google Meet or whatever.
00:52:29I have never done that one time.
00:52:31And I'm very curious how it's going for you.
00:52:34So I basically had to log into Slack, right?
00:52:38Because I need a link to this meeting.
00:52:41And so how am I going to get a link to this particular meeting?
00:52:44So you know, like, either you have to have your calendar in here some in some capacity,
00:52:48or you have to basically go into the browser, go into your Google Calendar and whatnot.
00:52:53But then I was just like, Oh, God, okay.
00:52:56So I went into Slack, which in our workplace, because things are secure, was real effing
00:53:04annoying.
00:53:05Because two factor authentication in a headset, not a solved problem.
00:53:08Two factor authentication in a headset.
00:53:11Let me tell you, it's not fun.
00:53:12And I was a good Boxpedia employee.
00:53:15I have a very complicated password for my work thing.
00:53:19So I'm just going in and this 1314 15 character long, I don't know how long it is.
00:53:23It's long, but I'm just like punching it in with this stupid little keyboard, just
00:53:27going in a capital.
00:53:29Oh, that's not a capital, I have to re enter all of this, then we have two factor authentication.
00:53:33And I have to go, thankfully, I get it sent to my watch.
00:53:35So I get it, boom into the watch.
00:53:37I'm like, yeah, cool.
00:53:38Awesome.
00:53:39Then I'm in Slack.
00:53:39And then I have to go like in the web in the browser in Slackland.
00:53:42Okay, now I gotta go to the link that I know is in this DM.
00:53:46And then okay, I gotta scroll in the DM, click on the link that opens up Riverside in the
00:53:51browser.
00:53:51And then I'm like, cool, I'm going to just log in, even though it's saying that there
00:53:56is no micro camera detected.
00:53:59So yeah, Andrew helped me test this before.
00:54:03It is quite a project.
00:54:05So okay, Andrew, I'm really curious for your thoughts on this one, because I want to know
00:54:09how you feel about this versus the smart glasses.
00:54:11Because what I'm hearing is very similar, but this sounds like it's compressing harder
00:54:16to me.
00:54:17But what are you hearing?
00:54:18There's a bit of compression here.
00:54:20I'm also wondering if it's Riverside's echo cancellation here, but it is not significantly
00:54:26better than the meta Ray Bans.
00:54:29This is a great sound for taking a meeting call.
00:54:34But if he was like, hey, can I join the podcast with the Quest 3?
00:54:39I'd be like, well, can you use your phone?
00:54:43I think that's right.
00:54:43Like none of this has gotten even up to like wired ear pods quality.
00:54:48But at least so far, this is definitely better than razor.
00:54:50But I would say not quite as good as the metal ones.
00:54:54My theory.
00:54:54I wonder about the echo cancellation, too.
00:54:56But I also wonder if because meta assumes you're going to be playing games all the time
00:55:01on this thing that it's going to have audio all the time.
00:55:04And so they've just turned up the echo cancellation on the device itself, just so it's
00:55:10trying to noise cancel against what's coming out of the speakers all the time, because
00:55:14it's just it is compressing this pretty aggressively.
00:55:17It does sound like there is some processing happening.
00:55:20Yeah.
00:55:20Before it gets into here.
00:55:21V, how are the speakers on this?
00:55:23Like the actual listening experience is pretty solid, right?
00:55:26I feel like.
00:55:27Yeah.
00:55:27Yeah.
00:55:28So this this I agree.
00:55:28It would work in a pinch in a meeting.
00:55:30But Andrew would not allow you on the Verge cast in the headset under normal circumstances.
00:55:35Also, like if you're reaching for a headset in a pinch for a meeting, something has gone
00:55:42terribly wrong.
00:55:43Consider your something has gone terribly, terribly, terribly wrong.
00:55:47Because where's your phone?
00:55:49There's just easier things to do than to swap on a headset.
00:55:52And then, you know, like I had gotten logged out of my account because the spouse logged
00:55:57into this at some point and was playing games.
00:55:59Then it was just like, where's my account?
00:56:02Oh, I forgot.
00:56:03I don't remember what my Facebook password is.
00:56:05Oh, you're telling me I have to log into this with that that this was an ordeal yesterday
00:56:09getting this prepped for today.
00:56:12Well, in the name of making everything simpler and better, let's make it more complicated.
00:56:15Let's switch and do the Vision Pro.
00:56:16Let's try that next.
00:56:17Oh, good Lord.
00:56:18Here we you know, actually, that might be slightly easier than this one, because
00:56:21Okay, all right.
00:56:22Well, we'll go back to the hold music.
00:56:25All right, hold on.
00:56:27All right.
00:56:27Well, it took it took some digging in settings and some app rebooting.
00:56:31But we got it working.
00:56:32And now your persona is here.
00:56:34And I hate this already.
00:56:36But I'm going to not look.
00:56:37I'm just going to listen.
00:56:38How do we sound?
00:56:39How are we doing?
00:56:40This was a nightmare.
00:56:41This is a nightmare.
00:56:43Everything's a nightmare.
00:56:45I can't stop looking at my horrible persona.
00:56:49Why is my hair so lumpy?
00:56:51My eyebrows are also misaligned.
00:56:54So I just look dubious.
00:56:56The good news is you sound great.
00:56:59I'm actually like amazed by how good this sounds.
00:57:02I suppose it's a $3,500 headset.
00:57:04Again, it's a thing on your face.
00:57:06There are a lot of microphones.
00:57:07Apple's pretty good at noise cancellation.
00:57:09I sort of figured this would be just in terms of raw audio, the best one.
00:57:14But it is, I would say, like a full leap above anything else we've tested so far.
00:57:20It's surprising just because of how annoying it was to get into this app.
00:57:26There's definitely some compression.
00:57:27I will say that I'm hearing more and more as you talk.
00:57:30It's doing a lot of the same like processing and cancellation stuff.
00:57:34But it still sounds very good.
00:57:36And it's very central.
00:57:39Like you are right in the middle of the mix.
00:57:41And it sounds like you're talking to me instead of shouting at a phone from several rooms away,
00:57:47which is very nice.
00:57:48I will say that whenever I've done my cursed Vision Pro FaceTimes with Wes,
00:57:54everything sounds great.
00:57:55Like, because he's obviously in the Vision Pro and using that mic.
00:57:59And it's always sounded like he's in the room with me, which is uncanny and freaky.
00:58:07On top of his mustache that won't move.
00:58:10Yeah, the real takeaway from this is FaceTime audio is your friend on the Vision Pro,
00:58:14not FaceTime video.
00:58:16And that is that is the way to live your life on the Vision Pro.
00:58:19Now, half the time our FaceTimes are like,
00:58:22oh, why do I have this over my mouth?
00:58:25This cloud?
00:58:25Because my hand is there.
00:58:27All right.
00:58:27Well, it sounds good.
00:58:29Let's let's get you out of your misery here.
00:58:32I do.
00:58:32We should we weren't planning to do this, but we should test AirPods last
00:58:35just as kind of a control on the rest of it.
00:58:37Do you have a pair of AirPods lying around?
00:58:39I do.
00:58:40All right.
00:58:40Let's go get those.
00:58:41Take off this godforsaken headset and let's let's try those.
00:58:46Thank you for letting me leave virtual jail.
00:58:56I don't know what is happening right now, but your voice is sped up like
00:59:00like 100x.
00:59:02I'm going to have to kick you out, Vee, and then you're going to have to come back in.
00:59:06I can't even understand what you're saying.
00:59:08Yeah, I got nothing.
00:59:09Yeah, just kick her out.
00:59:10Yeah.
00:59:11Vee, you're back with AirPods on.
00:59:12My AirPods Pro USB-C version.
00:59:16So I guess the latest versions of the AirPods Pro you can ask for.
00:59:19OK, so I have to say this is this sounds comparatively worse than I actually expected.
00:59:25I would say I would put this like pretty close to the AirPods Pro.
00:59:31The very first the Razer ones that we listened to in the sense that it kind of sounds like a
00:59:36far away omnidirectional microphone.
00:59:37And like you sound fine.
00:59:38I can hear you.
00:59:39I can hear everything you're saying.
00:59:41But like I expected this to come on and me to be like, oh, yeah, this sounds kind of like the
00:59:46Ray-Ban smart glasses.
00:59:47This is like demonstrably worse than those, at least to my ears.
00:59:50Andrew, is that am I way off here?
00:59:52No, absolutely.
00:59:53I actually would like to hear how the Razer ones sound again, because those were a lot
00:59:58more fuller sounding in a frequency range than these.
01:00:02These kind of sound pretty tinny, actually, in comparison.
01:00:05Yeah, I mean, I do have an assortment of just gadgets in my strewn across my room,
01:00:11which is like my office, rather, which is a freaking it's a disaster zone.
01:00:16It's like late in the week.
01:00:17So I haven't put my gadgets away like a naughty, naughty gadget reviewer.
01:00:21So it's literally right here.
01:00:23I could put them back on if you want.
01:00:25Let's let's do it really quickly.
01:00:26Let's just do it.
01:00:26Yeah, just really, really quick.
01:00:28And then we'll let you go.
01:00:29Okay.
01:00:30All right.
01:00:31I'm back in these glasses, which you guys say look fine on me.
01:00:35But I think I look a little like I look a little bit like the grandpa from up.
01:00:42First of all, that's a compliment.
01:00:44You should be psyched to look like the grandpa from up.
01:00:46But yeah, Andrew, I'm kind of hearing what it sounds like you were saying that like this
01:00:50is a little fuller, but to me, a little sort of further back where like it sounds further
01:00:56away, but in a certain sense, better.
01:01:00Yeah, so it's probably like their worst microphones, but they are closer to the face.
01:01:05So you get a little more detail of what he is saying.
01:01:09I mean, yeah, there's a trade off there.
01:01:11But like, if I'm on a call, like, I would almost prefer these not on a podcast, but
01:01:16in a meeting.
01:01:16Yeah.
01:01:17Yeah, you do sound clearer in this.
01:01:19Like, I feel like I hear your voice more clearly.
01:01:22It just sounds to me like you're further away from it.
01:01:26That's really interesting.
01:01:27Big win for headsets today.
01:01:29I expected AirPods to come somewhere in the middle, but I think you could make a pretty
01:01:32compelling case that all four of the things you just tried are better microphones for
01:01:37talking to people than a pair of AirPods.
01:01:40Wow.
01:01:41That's a that's a big boon to the smart glasses category.
01:01:45Yeah, right.
01:01:46This is also a big win for you and me wearing glasses walking around talking to ourselves
01:01:50like maniacs kind of situation.
01:01:52You know, my neighbors have seen me do walk and talk like just filming social videos and
01:01:58just I did a social video while doing a walk and talk and someone was just like, this this
01:02:03hoe really just be walking out here talking to thin air.
01:02:08And I was just like, yeah, you know what?
01:02:10This is the future, baby.
01:02:12Everything is a microphone.
01:02:14I really hope you say that to people.
01:02:15You just say this is the future, baby.
01:02:16And then you just high five them and move on.
01:02:18I love it.
01:02:19All right.
01:02:19Well, we need to get out of here.
01:02:21But big, giant win for smart glasses today.
01:02:24I'm going to say in terms of like, the combination of you don't look like a lunatic and you sound
01:02:32pretty good.
01:02:32I think the meta smart glasses here are probably the winner for me in terms of like, what would
01:02:37I tell you to go get for a good microphone?
01:02:39Andrew, what's your read?
01:02:40Yes, I would like to note that the how much are the razor and zoo?
01:02:45How much do they cost?
01:02:46On Amazon, you can get them for forty dollars.
01:02:50Jesus Christ, right?
01:02:51That's pretty cheap.
01:02:52That's really cheap for that.
01:02:54That is really cheap.
01:02:55If someone was like, should I get the two hundred and fifty dollar meta glasses or should I get
01:03:01these forty dollar glasses that I can take calls with?
01:03:04I might just say get those.
01:03:05That is fair.
01:03:06That's a big price difference.
01:03:07The metal ones definitely sound better.
01:03:09But yeah, for for fifty bucks as a as a thing to just throw on when you have a phone call,
01:03:14the razor one's not a terrible choice.
01:03:17That's shocking to me.
01:03:18That's like obviously I've tested these a long time ago, so I didn't remember.
01:03:22But that's just wow.
01:03:24Talk about bang for your buck.
01:03:25The thing that I use the meta smart glasses for a lot is it's like I've had I had I was
01:03:31in a car accident a couple of weeks ago, so I spent a lot of time on hold with the claims
01:03:34department.
01:03:35And rather than wear headphones, I can just like throw them on and sit on hold and then
01:03:40I can like listen to music in the room or whatever.
01:03:42And actually for sitting on hold, a pair of smart glasses is like weirdly great.
01:03:46So I think in that case, again, like the fifty dollar Anzus are also a pretty solid choice.
01:03:52But I feel like raw sort of quality and usability meta.
01:03:56But Andrew, you make a good point.
01:03:58Fifty dollars for for this is is not the worst deal in the world.
01:04:01And you get to look like the grandpa from Up, which is an incredible, huge victory.
01:04:05Jury's out on how these look on me.
01:04:07Like you guys say, it looks fine, but it's one to think about.
01:04:11All right, V, we got to let you go.
01:04:12Thank you so much, as always, for doing this and putting up with all of our Bluetooth nonsense.
01:04:18I'm just going to lie down and take a break and recalibrate my Vision Pro.
01:04:23All right, we got to take a break.
01:04:24Then we're going to come back.
01:04:25We'll do a question on the hotline.
01:04:34Welcome back.
01:04:35All right, let's get to the hotline.
01:04:36As always, the number is 866-VERGE11.
01:04:39The email is VergeCastToTheVerge.com.
01:04:41We love all of your questions.
01:04:42Please keep sending us all of your wildest, weirdest questions about technology.
01:04:48Also, in particular, I'm really eager to start doing more like teeny tiny tech mysteries.
01:04:54So if you have a weird tech problem that you can't solve and we might be able to help with,
01:04:58let us know.
01:04:59This week, we have a question which seemed fitting about glasses.
01:05:04Hey, David, it's Ruby from the UK.
01:05:07I have bad eyesight, and I wear glasses all the time.
01:05:11And it's getting to the point where I really need new glasses.
01:05:14But I told myself I wouldn't buy new frames unless they were smart glasses.
01:05:20I don't like meta, so those are out of the question.
01:05:23But I don't know if it was you, but The Verge reviewed a pair of smart glasses called Focals
01:05:27by a company called North.
01:05:29It got bought by Google.
01:05:30And they have a little laser projector that just gave you a HUD.
01:05:33And from those reviews, it looked pretty cool.
01:05:36Do you think that's maybe something we might see in the near future?
01:05:40And maybe even an AI version of it?
01:05:42That's not stupid.
01:05:44Thanks and take care.
01:05:45Okay, so real quick, if you don't remember the North Focals, and you'd be forgiven for not
01:05:50remembering the North Focals.
01:05:51Basically, the way that they worked was instead of being two screens in front of your eyes,
01:05:56there was a little laser projector off to the right, I think, of the glasses.
01:06:01So it would project the laser onto this little polymer in the middle of the right lens, which
01:06:08would then reflect that light back into your eyes.
01:06:10So instead of looking at a screen, you were getting what amounted to, I think it was a
01:06:15300 pixel by 300 pixel display kind of right in the middle of your right eye.
01:06:20And you could see through it when it wasn't projecting.
01:06:22It looked just like a little smudge on the lens itself.
01:06:25It was a very clever system.
01:06:27North had a real problem making these things work, though.
01:06:31For one, it's expensive technology.
01:06:33It's a startup.
01:06:34They ended up trying to sell these things, I think, for $1,000, which most people are just
01:06:38not going to spend $1,000 on a pair of glasses.
01:06:41Google ended up buying North, I think, mostly for the technology.
01:06:44But obviously, Google has a complicated relationship with smart glasses all the way back to
01:06:50Google Glass.
01:06:51I do think the company is committed to doing some kind of AR, XR thing.
01:06:55The company keeps teasing it and talking about it.
01:06:58There was that thing in the Project Astra video where you can see the glasses.
01:07:03Like, it's out there.
01:07:04Google is still thinking about this stuff.
01:07:06But what North did was really clever, honestly.
01:07:09And I'm sort of sad to have seen the company go.
01:07:11But it was tough, right?
01:07:12Not only was it really expensive, but North famously had trouble with people with longer
01:07:18eyelashes.
01:07:19And evidently, the display struggled when people were wearing mascara.
01:07:24So this stuff is hard, is my point.
01:07:27It's hard, and it's expensive.
01:07:29And there is just not a lot of progress being made towards putting this kind of technology
01:07:34in something that looks and feels and costs like a normal pair of glasses.
01:07:39All that said, I do think something like the Focals is probably where we're headed in the
01:07:45immediate future.
01:07:46Like, look, sure, someday the whole Vision Pro MetaQuest thing might be the future.
01:07:51But it's only going to be the future when those things look like a pair of glasses.
01:07:55And I think we're just a bunch of huge technical innovations away from that being the case.
01:08:01So what we're going to see instead, I think, is something that feels more like a heads
01:08:07up display, right?
01:08:08Something that projects little bits of information at a time onto your face.
01:08:12And as we've been talking about this whole episode, if you believe that chat, in particular
01:08:18voice-in, voice-out chat with AI systems is going to be a key part of how we talk to
01:08:23computers, something like that becomes really powerful, right?
01:08:25It can display your text message, and you can respond to it.
01:08:28It can show you the answer to a question that you asked.
01:08:31It can show you the information that you asked for.
01:08:33It becomes this really useful thing in a way that even North, five years ago, was trying
01:08:39to awkwardly rewrite apps to make them make sense on this tiny display in a way that was
01:08:45just really hard.
01:08:46Now we have a confluence of things, whether it's voice, or we've had a lot of work with
01:08:52widgets on lock screens and home screens of phones.
01:08:55That stuff has also been transferred to smartwatches, which have made a lot of progress in the last
01:09:00five years.
01:09:01Put all of that together, and you can sort of see how the interface for a pair of glasses
01:09:05that is just listening to you talk, maybe doing some gesture control.
01:09:10Again, we have these new smart rings like the Galaxy Ring that are starting to experiment
01:09:14with.
01:09:14Maybe you can use your fingers to control devices just with your hands.
01:09:17Meta is also working on this kind of stuff.
01:09:19Mark Zuckerberg even said that there is a new wearable that the company has been working
01:09:23on that it's getting ready to release that is going to be a new way to control gadgets.
01:09:27So again, all of this is just coming together.
01:09:30The question is going to be, can anyone make a product out of it?
01:09:33Can you do North's thing, where North also had a little ring joystick thing that was
01:09:39kind of neat, but also kind of got in the way?
01:09:41Can you do that well with a smart ring?
01:09:43Can you figure out the interface in a way that is useful and will make people want to
01:09:48spend the extra money on it without being too much extra money to the point where people
01:09:52just don't want it in addition to their regular pair of glasses?
01:09:55Can you make the battery last long enough that it doesn't feel like I have to charge
01:09:58my glasses twice a day because that's a terrible experience?
01:10:01And then I think there's the biggest question, which is just that we haven't solved how any
01:10:04of this is supposed to work.
01:10:06A Google executive a few years ago said to me that one of the most challenging things
01:10:09about AR is figuring out kind of the relative noise level of an AR system.
01:10:15And I mean, noise in the sense of like how in your face it is and involved it is in your
01:10:21life, right?
01:10:21Sometimes you want lots of information.
01:10:23You want it to be telling you what's going on around you.
01:10:25You want it to point you to the coffee shop down the street or the cool place that you
01:10:30totally should go, or the fact that your friend is over there.
01:10:33And then other times you want it to just shut up and go away.
01:10:36And you want all of that to happen automatically and seamlessly and without you having to decide
01:10:42what you want.
01:10:43Like your phone, you can just leave somewhere else.
01:10:46You can walk away from your phone in a way that you can't walk away from a pair of glasses,
01:10:50especially if they're corrective, if you need them.
01:10:52And so all these interfaces are going to have to be automatic and perfect and uncomplicated
01:10:58in ways that just no one has figured out yet, right?
01:11:01Like if you got as many notifications on your face as you get on your phone every day, you
01:11:05would stop wearing glasses the very first day.
01:11:07You just would.
01:11:08We all would.
01:11:09It's a bad interface when it is literally in front of your eyes whenever you get a notification.
01:11:15And that stuff I think is going to take longer to solve because it's about who we are as
01:11:20people and how we use technology and what we care about and what we don't care about.
01:11:24And putting all those pieces together I think is actually the hardest part of all of this.
01:11:28Because again, you have rings, which I think are doing interesting gesture and sensing
01:11:33stuff.
01:11:33You have other devices doing that.
01:11:35Who knows, we might get like brain computer interfaces soon enough.
01:11:38I think the glasses technology is getting better pretty quickly.
01:11:43North's projector was not amazing, but it was pretty good.
01:11:46And that was a while ago.
01:11:47And frankly, it's a bummer that we haven't gotten to see five years of progress there.
01:11:51We also are seeing companies like Meta really start to bet on the smart glasses space.
01:11:57I think the idea that we were going to get headsets and we were all going to learn how
01:12:00to live inside of headsets was just the wrong one.
01:12:03And I think even the success that Meta has said it's seeing from the smart glasses is
01:12:08proof that what we're doing is saying, how do we make glasses that look like glasses
01:12:13and work like glasses and feel like glasses?
01:12:15And then how do we make them more useful over time?
01:12:17And I think that is a really interesting road that is going to lead to interesting things
01:12:22fairly quickly.
01:12:23So I would say to your question specifically, I think if you need a pair of glasses today,
01:12:27you should just buy a pair of glasses.
01:12:29There's not anything that is so smart and so good, even at doing one thing beyond being
01:12:34a pair of glasses that it feels worth making a huge bet on.
01:12:38But it's kind of like the one after this one, right?
01:12:41Like someday in a couple of years when you lose these glasses or need to increase your
01:12:46prescription or they break or whatever.
01:12:49I think at that point, we might be somewhere where there is a heads up display in your
01:12:53glasses that is pretty useful.
01:12:56It won't do everything.
01:12:57It won't be a full on metaverse AR experience where you can like play games in the world
01:13:03around you, but it'll be something.
01:13:04Maybe it'll just show you your text messages, but that'll be something.
01:13:07And I think that'll be pretty cool.
01:13:09There are companies out there working on this.
01:13:10I think Google has intimated that there's stuff going on.
01:13:13There's some indication from reporting that we've seen from Mark Gurman at Bloomberg and
01:13:18others that Apple is starting to really work on smart glasses.
01:13:21Meta is very clearly investing in this more and more over time.
01:13:25There's a company called Brilliant Labs that is doing some interesting work here on trying
01:13:29to create a whole ecosystem of these smart glasses.
01:13:32So like I think this is coming and I think you're on to the right idea that just a little
01:13:37display, a little bit of information, a little bit of sort of additive interface over top
01:13:42of the real world is the next thing and feels achievable.
01:13:46But I just can't think of something I would tell you to buy right this minute that feels
01:13:50like it's the answer.
01:13:51So maybe go buy like, you know, the junkiest pair of glasses you can find that still look
01:13:55good and work well.
01:13:56And then just try to keep them around until you find the right thing.
01:14:02All right, that is it for the Verge cast today.
01:14:04Thanks to everybody who came on the show.
01:14:06And thank you as always for listening.
01:14:08There's lots more on everything we talked about from the gaming handhelds to all of
01:14:12our reviews of all of those wearable face pewter thingies at theverge.com.
01:14:16I'll put some links in the show notes.
01:14:18But as always, read theverge.com.
01:14:20There is a lot going on right now.
01:14:22So go check out the site.
01:14:23As always, if you have thoughts, questions, feelings, or handheld gaming consoles that
01:14:28I should buy, email us vergecasts at theverge.com or call the hotline 866-VERGE-11.
01:14:33We'd love hearing from you.
01:14:35It's my favorite.
01:14:36This show is produced by Andrew Marino, Liam James, and Will Poore.
01:14:39The Verge cast is a Verge production and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
01:14:42Nilay, Alex, and I will be back on Friday to talk about all the AI news, all the Apple
01:14:48public beta stuff, and everything else happening this week.
01:14:51We'll see you then.
01:14:52Rock and roll.