In this special live episode of The Vergecast, from the Brooklyn Bowl in Las Vegas, it's time to talk CES. Nilay and David run through some of the show's biggest stories, plus the Meta news that dominated the conversations all week in Vegas. Then Allison Johnson, Jennifer Pattison Tuohy, and Victoria Song join the show to talk about all the newest, best, weirdest, and worst gadgets they've seen this year. AI is everywhere, everyone's making smart glasses, the smart home might be turning a corner, and we've seen it all this week.
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TechTranscript
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00:00:57I don't want to tell you my moves.
00:00:58We are live at CES. We're at Brooklyn Bowl.
00:01:02We have a live audience. Say hello to the live audience.
00:01:04Live audience, say hello to the listeners.
00:01:07It's crazy in here.
00:01:10Delta has taken over Brooklyn Bowl on our behalf.
00:01:13There's Vergecast logos at the bar on all the screens.
00:01:16This is a super cool room. Thank you all so much for being here with us.
00:01:19If you're listening, we're going to try to keep this on the rails
00:01:22as much as we ever keep a Vergecast on the rails.
00:01:26But I have to be honest with you.
00:01:27Just the presence of this crowd has me knowing
00:01:29that things are going to get super weird on this episode of the Vergecast.
00:01:32It's going to be great.
00:01:33Jen, Allison, and V are going to join us.
00:01:35We're going to talk about everything that's happening at CES
00:01:37across their beats, across other beats.
00:01:40There's a helicopter that lands in a van that I really, really want to talk about.
00:01:44You've brought this up so many times now.
00:01:46And you keep bringing it up in such a way where you're like,
00:01:48you don't think it's cool, but you've now said it so many times
00:01:51that I'm like, Neal, I actually think this is very cool.
00:01:53It's a lot. I don't want to waste it.
00:01:55We're going to get into it.
00:01:58And we're going to have lightning rounds, obviously.
00:02:00It's Vergecast.
00:02:02Sponsored by all these people.
00:02:03Sponsored by all these people.
00:02:05David, tell me, what's your vibe on CES this year?
00:02:08It's been a weird CES.
00:02:12There hasn't been the thing.
00:02:15I feel like last year, the Rabbit R1, which sucks, was the thing at CES.
00:02:20It was the gadget that a lot of people were talking about and interested in.
00:02:24And this year, it's almost too practical.
00:02:28All the stuff I'm excited about and that we're going to talk about
00:02:30is real things that real people are going to use,
00:02:32which is not what CES is about.
00:02:34CES is about deranged ideas about technology.
00:02:37And there are lots of those.
00:02:39And we will get to many of them, including helicopters
00:02:41that come out of the back of cars.
00:02:43But it just doesn't feel like there has been the one breakout thing yet.
00:02:49Which, in terms of stuff that regular people will actually buy,
00:02:52it's probably a good CES on that front.
00:02:55But it doesn't feel quite CES-y that way.
00:02:57Does that make sense?
00:02:58So I have another theory about what's going on at CES.
00:03:01It's like my face-hugger theory of technology.
00:03:06You know, aliens that burst out of the chest?
00:03:08There's CES, the show that we all think we're coming to,
00:03:11with the gadgets and the TVs and whatever.
00:03:14And then at the ARIA, there's the marketing people.
00:03:18Yes.
00:03:19There's some marketing people here.
00:03:22Be careful, they're going to latch onto your face.
00:03:24You can tell.
00:03:25It's literally much better-dressed people
00:03:27walking much more intentionally at the ARIA
00:03:29than at the Venetian.
00:03:31Well, I'll get to that in one second.
00:03:33They're definitely better dressed.
00:03:34Intentionally, it seems, maybe.
00:03:37So if you just think about what's going on in technology broadly,
00:03:41we all have screens, the screens have apps,
00:03:43they show you video, they show you AI slop,
00:03:45whatever they're showing you.
00:03:46And in the middle, all that's fun about advertising.
00:03:48And sometime over the past decade,
00:03:50the advertising industry realized that they should be here
00:03:52where everyone is going to talk about next-year screens.
00:03:55And then they have the money,
00:03:57and the helicopter car guys are like,
00:04:02I'm here too.
00:04:03And so it's just like this other parallel CES is here
00:04:07where if you want to meet 300 meta executives,
00:04:11they're at the ARIA.
00:04:12They're not on the show floor.
00:04:13If you want to see the entire Amazon's ads team
00:04:16or all the TikTok people, they're here.
00:04:18A lot of the major company executives are here.
00:04:21They're just deal-making about ads somewhere else.
00:04:24And the show floor, it's not what it used to be.
00:04:28And so I think that's where you get to,
00:04:29there's not one big thing that everyone's talking about.
00:04:31Because the one big thing everyone's talking about
00:04:33is programmatic advertising.
00:04:35Well, and the other one is AI,
00:04:38which I was talking to one of them,
00:04:41I'm going to steal our thunder from one of our guests here,
00:04:43who was saying basically the strange thing about AI
00:04:45is you can't demo it to anybody.
00:04:47It's just like a thing that happens,
00:04:49but it actually just looks like a television.
00:04:51So you're like, this television has a chat bot.
00:04:53And it's like, well, A, what does that mean?
00:04:55And B, how do you show that on a show floor?
00:04:58So it's like Samsung just had a ship
00:05:00because that's the only thing there is to show is look.
00:05:03The Samsung booth has a sign in it.
00:05:05And if you have been to the show floor,
00:05:06the Samsung booth has a sign and it says,
00:05:08smart things for ships.
00:05:09This is real, which seems dangerous to me
00:05:12as a person who runs smart things in his home.
00:05:14We'll have Jen on later.
00:05:15We can ask her if she thinks smart things is appropriate
00:05:17for seabound navigation.
00:05:19You spend a tremendous amount of time
00:05:21talking about how your goal is boat money.
00:05:23And I feel like smart things for ships, boat money,
00:05:26like there's a straight line in there.
00:05:27Well, so right next to smart things for ship
00:05:29is a sign that says society.
00:05:31It's not even like connected society.
00:05:33It's just the word society.
00:05:35And it's like Samsung is announcing society
00:05:38and next to society, their vision for it
00:05:40is that your ship will have smart technology on it.
00:05:43And you're like, I think this is a dangerous approach
00:05:48to what we're doing, but it's really weird.
00:05:50Like Samsung is showing all these like solutions.
00:05:52There's no products in their booth,
00:05:53which is really weird.
00:05:54There's a model of a ship and the word society.
00:05:56And we're going to talk about the frame TV.
00:05:58I promise you, we're going to talk about frame TV.
00:05:59The two wolves inside of each other.
00:06:00The frame TV is not even being demoed in that booth.
00:06:02The art gallery of the frame TV
00:06:03is being demoed in that booth.
00:06:05So it's just very odd moment
00:06:07for I think a lot of these companies
00:06:09where they're over the hardware race.
00:06:12And then a bunch of the younger companies,
00:06:14the TCLs are like still super in the hardware race.
00:06:17I will say, and we should talk about this quickly.
00:06:19We're going to talk about this a lot, I suspect,
00:06:21for the next four years,
00:06:22because there are so many marketers here
00:06:24and because there are so many major technology company
00:06:26executives here,
00:06:28Meta announced yesterday
00:06:29that they're getting rid of fact-checking.
00:06:31They're changing their community standards.
00:06:33And we've been able to do a bunch of reporting about that
00:06:35because everyone's here.
00:06:36And then sort of like,
00:06:38what does it mean to advertise on Meta
00:06:40when their community guidelines are changing
00:06:42is a thing that I've just had conversations about
00:06:45because all of those folks are here.
00:06:47And that's not usually what you expect from CS.
00:06:50I'm assuming you came here to hear me rant
00:06:53about the frame TV
00:06:54and not about Meta's community guidelines,
00:06:55although it's the Verticast,
00:06:56so I'm hoping that you all understand
00:06:57both things will always happen at the same time.
00:07:01But that to me has been the story of the show
00:07:04just because of the rooms I have happened to be in.
00:07:07Everyone is talking about it.
00:07:09Because it feels like the whole tech industry
00:07:11is now in a much more transactional place,
00:07:13cynically transactional.
00:07:15And that announcement coming on the first day of CS
00:07:18I think is no accident of timing
00:07:20because all of Meta's marketers are here with their clients
00:07:23explaining what they mean
00:07:25when they say you can now refer to women
00:07:27as household objects on Meta,
00:07:29which is a rule that they have changed.
00:07:30That's a rule that you can do.
00:07:31And the reason they announced it here
00:07:33is because their salespeople
00:07:35are sitting with their biggest clients being like,
00:07:37here's how this is actually going to play out.
00:07:38And I think that has gotten a little bit lost, right?
00:07:40Like, yes, the timing is weird.
00:07:42Yes, Mark Zuckerberg made
00:07:44what appears to be like a hostage video.
00:07:47Is anyone here good at makeup?
00:07:48Can someone help him
00:07:49so he's not always blown out in the T-zone?
00:07:51Like, I look great in eyeliner
00:07:53and that's all I know how to do,
00:07:54but my goth phase did not.
00:07:57He always looks like he just needs to get evened out.
00:08:01Facts.
00:08:02But this is also just what he does every four years now
00:08:03is make one of those videos
00:08:04where he takes the opposite position
00:08:06of the one that he took four years ago.
00:08:08Right, and it's super cynical.
00:08:09I think he's gotten a little bit radicalized, right?
00:08:12He gets yelled at a lot.
00:08:13I think none of the big tech companies
00:08:14liked working with the Biden administration
00:08:16because the Biden administration's approach
00:08:18to the big tech companies
00:08:19was effectively, what if you didn't exist, right?
00:08:23It's true.
00:08:24They all hated LenaCon.
00:08:25They all hated this Department of Justice.
00:08:27Google has two antitrust cases brewing.
00:08:30Meta has a big one coming up in April
00:08:33that I think the FTC is running
00:08:34about Instagram and WhatsApp
00:08:36and potentially breaking that apart.
00:08:37So I think they all just made their deal with the devil
00:08:40to be like, we give Trump money,
00:08:42maybe these problems will go away.
00:08:44And I think part of that
00:08:45is Mark literally using a lot of,
00:08:48like he says the legacy media is lying to you.
00:08:51Like in that video, he says transgenderism
00:08:54and he says the rule is now you can refer
00:08:57to being gay or transgender as a mental illness.
00:09:00These are explicit,
00:09:01these are dog whistles to a community
00:09:03that is very, very receptive to them.
00:09:05And all of that is transactional.
00:09:07Whether or not he believes it, I don't know.
00:09:09There's a lot of gay and trans people who work at Meta.
00:09:11Like he has to support his own team in some way.
00:09:13And I think he's going to have to explain that.
00:09:15It also doesn't matter.
00:09:16Like I think the lesson we're learning here really quickly
00:09:19is that what Mark Zuckerberg believes
00:09:21or what Tim Cook believes
00:09:22or what any of these folks believe
00:09:24actually doesn't matter.
00:09:25Like they will run their companies as business people.
00:09:28And I think the thing that is happening
00:09:30is we either have to decide to stop being surprised
00:09:34or like dedicate ourselves to continuing to be angry
00:09:37that this happens.
00:09:38But this is just, everyone has just said what it is now.
00:09:41I was with another big tech company executive yesterday
00:09:44and they were just like,
00:09:45we're treating this time it's business.
00:09:47And that was just the point of view that they had.
00:09:50And it's just been business the whole time.
00:09:52But I think that there was a long period of time
00:09:55where there was a sense that like, okay,
00:09:56maybe we are going to buy into this new world
00:09:59where like young people care about values and each other
00:10:02and we're going to save the world.
00:10:03And ESG is going to be a part.
00:10:05And then everybody has decided, oh, nevermind.
00:10:07That's actually not what it is.
00:10:08We're just going to win at capitalism.
00:10:10And that is the game.
00:10:11Yeah.
00:10:12So we're going to cover this a lot.
00:10:13I think over the next four years,
00:10:15we already have some further coverage scheduled
00:10:17for next week on both this site and the podcast.
00:10:20But I just, I wanted to call it out being one
00:10:22because we're like, what's the story of CES?
00:10:25For me, part of the story of CES
00:10:27is the marketing industry is here.
00:10:29Like in force, it is driving the show
00:10:32in a way that is basically invisible.
00:10:34Even on our site, like our site is basically like,
00:10:36look at this laptop, it folds in half.
00:10:37And that's really fun.
00:10:38And I love it.
00:10:39But the money here is all in the aria.
00:10:42It's all a lot of people talking about how to command attention.
00:10:45And the story of the show over there has been
00:10:49the biggest advertising platform around
00:10:51has made this big capitulation.
00:10:53This very transactional, very cynical capitulation.
00:10:55And I think that's going to have repercussions
00:10:57across the tech industry.
00:10:59Because if you don't have to spend $270 million in Pennsylvania,
00:11:03you won't.
00:11:05And I think they're all going to learn that lesson from Mark.
00:11:07And I think the question is like,
00:11:09does anybody here think Mark Zuckerberg
00:11:11is not like a ruthless transactional businessman?
00:11:14Bowling?
00:11:16Yeah.
00:11:17He gave me one of these.
00:11:18Yeah.
00:11:19Like a half and half.
00:11:20Does anyone think Tim Cook
00:11:21is not a ruthlessly transactional businessman?
00:11:24Like Tim Cook famously, the why are you still here story.
00:11:27You guys know the story where like
00:11:28they were talking about some problem with a supplier in China
00:11:30and his lieutenant was here and he looked at him
00:11:32and he said, why are you still here?
00:11:33And the guy got up and left the room and flew to China.
00:11:36Yeah, he's going to be able to handle it, right?
00:11:38He handled Trump excellently the first time.
00:11:40Bezos, ruthlessly transactional businessman.
00:11:42And then you've got like Sundar.
00:11:44Like, can he do it?
00:11:46Can Evan Spiegel roll up to Mar-a-Lago and be like,
00:11:50I've redesigned the Snapchat interface again?
00:11:54I think this is going to have huge repercussions
00:11:56across the tech industry
00:11:57because you need to be all kind of personality.
00:11:59And so we're going to cover it, I think, for the next four years.
00:12:01But now we should cover gadgets.
00:12:04Can we talk about the biggest question of CES?
00:12:07All that stuff is more important, whatever.
00:12:11The question I have about CES is,
00:12:12is the frame pro actually a good television?
00:12:15All right.
00:12:16I mean this question sincerely.
00:12:17So Chris Welch on our team
00:12:19wrote about the Samsung, the frame.
00:12:22I've learned that it's not called the frame television.
00:12:24It's called the frame,
00:12:25which is ridiculous and I hate it.
00:12:27But the frame pro is a new TV.
00:12:29And he started by being like,
00:12:31oh, this thing might kick ass.
00:12:32It's very cool.
00:12:33Lots of new stuff.
00:12:34And over the course of like 72 hours
00:12:36has come to basically I have been lied to.
00:12:38This thing might be awful.
00:12:39And so I want to know how you feel.
00:12:41I want one.
00:12:42I have not spent any time with Chris.
00:12:44He came to that conclusion independently.
00:12:45As America's foremost frame owner,
00:12:49which is a thing you just have to wear it.
00:12:51You have to wear it.
00:12:52I do own one.
00:12:53How many people here have a frame TV?
00:12:55All right.
00:12:56Bowlers?
00:12:57Neal, I owe all of you money.
00:12:58Yeah.
00:12:59That was just a fist in the air.
00:13:00You're just like, yeah, frame TV.
00:13:02Lots of frame TVs.
00:13:03I have a frame TV.
00:13:04Everybody now has a frame TV.
00:13:05The frame TV represents the death of Hollywood.
00:13:07I want you to,
00:13:08every time you turn on this TV,
00:13:09I want you to be like,
00:13:10what I'm doing is killing Hollywood.
00:13:11And I mean that.
00:13:12I mean that in a very real sense.
00:13:14It is also Samsung's biggest success.
00:13:17It is a cultural product,
00:13:18not a tech product.
00:13:19You buy this thing because it looks good when it's off.
00:13:21You buy this thing because it has an art store.
00:13:24How many people are paying the 50 bucks a month
00:13:25for the art store?
00:13:26How many people are,
00:13:27that one person will admit it.
00:13:29How many of you are paying for it
00:13:30and you just don't want to admit it
00:13:31in this room with me, right?
00:13:32I pay the money too, right?
00:13:34It is a cultural product.
00:13:36It is not a technology product.
00:13:38And that is the thing everybody wants.
00:13:40The iPhone is a cultural product.
00:13:41It is not a technology product.
00:13:42It's a very high-end technology product,
00:13:44but inherently it's a cultural product.
00:13:46So Samsung can have influencers and HGTV
00:13:48and interior designers sell the frame TV
00:13:50as like a statement piece
00:13:52that you put in your living room.
00:13:53I have a frame TV.
00:13:54I have a new neighbor.
00:13:55They redid their living room
00:13:56and they were like,
00:13:57we bought the frame TV
00:13:58and they're like,
00:13:59it's not a real frame TV.
00:14:00And I was like,
00:14:01why are you admitting this to me?
00:14:02No one like shows me any other product
00:14:03and is like,
00:14:04it's not the real one.
00:14:05That doesn't happen.
00:14:06But the frame TV has achieved the status.
00:14:07And the fact that it is a bad TV
00:14:11is like totally secondary to its status.
00:14:14It is a shit TV.
00:14:15I'm sorry.
00:14:16You don't,
00:14:17you don't have,
00:14:18you don't have,
00:14:19you can just,
00:14:20it's fine that I know it
00:14:21and you know it.
00:14:22You don't have to tell anyone else,
00:14:23but it is a seven-year-old edge lit panel
00:14:25that Samsung has long since made its margin on.
00:14:28And now they're selling them
00:14:29for like three bills.
00:14:30Like a lot of you paid thousands of dollars
00:14:33for your frame TV
00:14:34when the core component of it
00:14:35is like a $200 Samsung panel
00:14:37from seven years ago,
00:14:39but it's all the stuff
00:14:40they've layered onto it, right?
00:14:41The mat display,
00:14:42they break out the box,
00:14:43they make it flat.
00:14:44You can buy the frames.
00:14:45I have a lot to say about the frames
00:14:47in the art store.
00:14:48So they're,
00:14:49they're making all of this margin
00:14:50based on the lifestyle value of the product
00:14:52on the product itself.
00:14:53And so the frame pro.
00:14:54This is such a long way of explaining
00:14:56why you bought a terrible television
00:14:58that has not yet answered my question.
00:15:00So Samsung,
00:15:01I mean,
00:15:02this time was,
00:15:03they were like,
00:15:04what if we made it a good TV?
00:15:05And it sounds like they didn't do that.
00:15:06They didn't do that.
00:15:07So they,
00:15:08they got to use some words.
00:15:09So they,
00:15:10so,
00:15:11you know,
00:15:12they have the lights around
00:15:13the edge of the screen
00:15:14that light up the LCD panel.
00:15:16The new hot tech is mini LED backlights.
00:15:19I have lots and lots of small backlights.
00:15:21You can turn on off the zones.
00:15:22You can true blacks.
00:15:23And then,
00:15:24you know,
00:15:25I have OLEDs,
00:15:26which are the,
00:15:27that's what I have.
00:15:28That's actually what I have.
00:15:29Our frame TV is in our bedroom
00:15:30and my daughter watches Moana
00:15:31on it when she's sick.
00:15:32That's why we own that TV.
00:15:33So Samsung is saying we've made it mini LED,
00:15:36which everyone you're supposed to think
00:15:38they're on the cutting edge of the technology
00:15:40because they can't use OLED
00:15:41because if you put art on an OLED picture
00:15:44for days at a time,
00:15:45you'll burn out the OLED.
00:15:46So they can't use the best technology.
00:15:48So they say they're using this
00:15:49up and coming disruptive technology called mini LED
00:15:51where every other mini LED TV
00:15:53has thousands,
00:15:54if not tens of thousands of dimming zones
00:15:56to let them simulate an OLED black level.
00:15:58But Samsung isn't doing that.
00:16:00They just put them around the fucking edge of the TV
00:16:02so they can crank them really bright
00:16:03so the TV can get brighter.
00:16:05So they still have an edge lit panel.
00:16:07Like they haven't done anything.
00:16:11Well, they did something.
00:16:12What did they do?
00:16:13But they didn't do the thing
00:16:14that they should have done,
00:16:15which is make it a better television.
00:16:16I don't think it matters.
00:16:17When I say it's the death of Hollywood,
00:16:19what I mean is you all bought this TV.
00:16:20I keep pointing at all of you.
00:16:24These monsters bought this television.
00:16:27Every Hollywood celebrity you know is mad at you.
00:16:29Tom Cruise is going to come in here
00:16:30and turn off motion smoothing one by one.
00:16:34But you bought a TV that is better when it's off.
00:16:38Like substantially better in its off state
00:16:41than it's on state.
00:16:42The picture quality when the frame TV is off
00:16:44is better than when it's on.
00:16:46And that's cool.
00:16:47That's why we have one in our bedroom
00:16:48because it's mostly off.
00:16:50It's such a small step from there
00:16:53to just hanging a real picture on your wall.
00:16:57It's such a small step from there to
00:16:59what's the, there's an e-ink,
00:17:00like color e-ink frame that they're selling here.
00:17:03It's a poster.
00:17:04You have to charge it once a year.
00:17:05It's a poster that has an art store.
00:17:06It's such a small step to that.
00:17:07It's such a small step to not having a TV
00:17:11because your TV is off showing you
00:17:13$50 a year content from the MoMA
00:17:16while you're on TikTok.
00:17:17Can I offer you a different idea?
00:17:19Which is the new LG Standby Me 2
00:17:21which is just a thing you carry with a strap.
00:17:23Why have a television
00:17:24when you can have a television with you all the time?
00:17:26Have you guys seen the Standby Me 2?
00:17:27It has a strap and then it also has a,
00:17:29so it's just a TV with a battery
00:17:30and the battery lasts for like four hours.
00:17:32It's very funny.
00:17:33The first one was a suitcase.
00:17:35It came in like a, like a James Bond style suitcase
00:17:38but then you would play solitaire on it.
00:17:40So you'd be like, I'm James Bond
00:17:41and then you'd be like, we're playing solitaire.
00:17:44But now it has a strap.
00:17:46It has a giant surface style kickstand attachment
00:17:49so you can just make it a giant tablet computer
00:17:52which is very cool.
00:17:53Everyone I saw encounter this thing in the LG booth
00:17:55was captivated by it.
00:17:56It's literally just a huge iPad without a touchscreen
00:17:59which is both ridiculous and kind of great.
00:18:03Yeah.
00:18:04They're showing it, there's like the big ideas
00:18:06like you'll hang it up at your coffee shop
00:18:08to show the menu or whatever
00:18:09and that's all fine and good
00:18:10but I want this thing to just like wander
00:18:13around my house with me
00:18:14and just, I just sit it next to me as I watch shows.
00:18:17Like that's what I do with my phone all the time now.
00:18:19I'm like-
00:18:20It's hot to not having a TV.
00:18:22What you are describing is a person without a television
00:18:25and every now and again
00:18:26you're going to bring out your little shoulder strap TV
00:18:28and you're going to like watch a show
00:18:30and you're going to put it away
00:18:31and once that happens,
00:18:32like the culture of the world changes
00:18:35once the default is we don't have TVs
00:18:38and I promise you the Samsung Frame TV
00:18:40is the leading indicator of eventually not having TVs.
00:18:44I mean, and the Frame Pro is a con
00:18:46and I just want to be very clear about this.
00:18:48Like what professional needs this stuff?
00:18:51Like what are we doing?
00:18:53But we're fully in the lightning round by the way.
00:18:54I just want to be clear.
00:18:55Yeah, so can I just burn you through some more news
00:18:57before we bring out our friends
00:18:58to talk about more interesting stuff
00:18:59than your weird ideas about television?
00:19:01Can we talk about Dell?
00:19:03Just for like a minute.
00:19:04I just need to be very mad at Dell out loud on this podcast.
00:19:07So Dell-
00:19:08That's a CS tradition.
00:19:09Dell which had a million names of products
00:19:13for its laptops that no one could ever make sense of
00:19:15now has fewer names for its products
00:19:17that make somehow even less sense.
00:19:18So Dell has completely renamed its whole-
00:19:21They got rid of XPS.
00:19:22Right.
00:19:23Which was a good brand.
00:19:25It was like the best Windows computer
00:19:26and they're like, ah, never mind.
00:19:28So now there is the Dell.
00:19:30Just Dell.
00:19:31Just Dell.
00:19:32So you just like, I'll have a Dell, please.
00:19:34Just like a thing you can do now.
00:19:35There's also the Dell Pro and there's the Dell Max.
00:19:38And if you're like, David, that doesn't make sense.
00:19:41I have more for you.
00:19:42Within each of those tiers,
00:19:44there is a premium, a plus, and a base tier.
00:19:47So there is now a Dell base.
00:19:50I'd like a Dell base, please.
00:19:52That's-
00:19:53Sure.
00:19:54That's like a rental car.
00:19:55All the way up to a Dell Max Premium,
00:19:57which is just spectacular.
00:19:58Dell Max Premium.
00:19:59I assume it costs $16 million.
00:20:01Are they different products?
00:20:04I honestly couldn't tell you.
00:20:06I don't think Dell knows.
00:20:07I really don't.
00:20:08I think they just like had a bunch of laptops
00:20:09and they were like,
00:20:10we don't know what any of these are anymore
00:20:12because we just have infinite SKUs of things
00:20:14and just put a bunch of them in buckets
00:20:15and we're like,
00:20:17ship these to Best Buy.
00:20:19And the middle one is plus.
00:20:20The middle one is plus.
00:20:21So you can get a Dell Max Plus.
00:20:22You can.
00:20:23That's correct.
00:20:24Or a Dell Pro Plus.
00:20:26I hate this so much.
00:20:28You're so mad.
00:20:29I have always said that my future
00:20:31is to just start a consultancy
00:20:33where I will walk into your boardroom,
00:20:35say that name is the stupidest thing I've ever heard,
00:20:37leave, and you owe me $50,000.
00:20:39Like, I'll be the one to say to your CEO
00:20:41that's the stupidest idea you've ever had.
00:20:43That's why people hire consultants.
00:20:44This is what I'm saying.
00:20:45I will do that for so cheap
00:20:47if it saves us from stupid names like this.
00:20:50But anyway, so that sucks.
00:20:51The computers, I'm sure, will be fine.
00:20:53Dell has made fine computers for a very long time.
00:20:56Can we talk about the Sony Afila car
00:20:58for just a hot second?
00:20:59Do we think this exists now?
00:21:01We have a price.
00:21:02This thing has been at CES
00:21:03in various forms of prototype
00:21:05for three years now?
00:21:07Four years?
00:21:08Yeah.
00:21:09Have you guys seen the Afila?
00:21:10It's just a sedan.
00:21:14It looks like a Lucid Air,
00:21:15but Sony did it, you know?
00:21:17It's $89,000.
00:21:19I was with some people today
00:21:20walking around the show floor,
00:21:21and I was like,
00:21:22this is Sony's car.
00:21:23It's a sedan that costs $89,000.
00:21:26And just a group of people guffawed.
00:21:30I feel very bad for Sony and Honda.
00:21:32They announced this thing five years ago
00:21:34at the height of infinite demand for Tesla,
00:21:37where Tesla was like,
00:21:38we can't make Model Ys fast enough.
00:21:40And every car company was like,
00:21:41well, what if we announce a car
00:21:43that we're going to ship five years from now
00:21:45to fill some of that Model Y demand?
00:21:47And our only idea about it
00:21:48is that it has PlayStation in it somehow.
00:21:51So, I mean,
00:21:52Sony's giant worry
00:21:53is that the cars will drive themselves,
00:21:55and then people,
00:21:56you'll have more free time
00:21:57because you're in your living room on wheels
00:21:59going to wherever you're going
00:22:00in your autonomous car.
00:22:02And Sony should program
00:22:03the content and advertising
00:22:05that you consume during that time.
00:22:07And I've heard this idea
00:22:08from multiple entertainment companies,
00:22:10multiple car companies,
00:22:11that once we have autonomous cars,
00:22:13you drive around living room on wheels,
00:22:14whoever wins that fight
00:22:16to program that screen
00:22:17is the next winner.
00:22:18And I'm just like,
00:22:19I know that people still have phones.
00:22:21You have to beat my iPhone still.
00:22:23Like, I get in an Uber all the time.
00:22:25The Uber drives around just fine.
00:22:27I'm not like,
00:22:28I hope somebody,
00:22:29like, I turn off the screen
00:22:30in the back of the taxi.
00:22:31I want to look at my phone.
00:22:32I do play the trivia games
00:22:33back there every once in a while.
00:22:34Oh, no.
00:22:35They're so fun.
00:22:36You're being so ruthlessly tracked.
00:22:37Oh, yeah, it's fine.
00:22:38They know how good I am at trivia.
00:22:39Like, it's not a problem.
00:22:40But so they haven't announced a price.
00:22:41And then I think a really funny thing
00:22:43is, you know,
00:22:44they feel it as a Sony-Honda
00:22:45mobility joint venture
00:22:46where Honda's doing a car
00:22:47and then Sony's programming
00:22:48the experiences on the car.
00:22:49And you can, like,
00:22:50you can, in fact,
00:22:51play PlayStation in the back of the Afila.
00:22:52Great.
00:22:53But at the same time,
00:22:54at this very show,
00:22:55Honda is showing off
00:22:56its own cooler cars.
00:22:58And you're just like,
00:22:59it's an $89,000 sedan
00:23:00that you don't like.
00:23:01Like, this thing is doomed.
00:23:02I hope none of you
00:23:03have pre-ordered an Afila.
00:23:05If you, you know,
00:23:06have fun.
00:23:07You know,
00:23:08life is a series of experiences
00:23:09that you're allowed to have.
00:23:10But the actual Honda cars
00:23:12look way cooler.
00:23:13Like, much more futuristic.
00:23:15There's a,
00:23:16they keep calling it a saloon,
00:23:17which is just
00:23:18what British people say
00:23:19instead of station wagon.
00:23:20And it's, like,
00:23:21just a long...
00:23:22I just learned that this week,
00:23:23by the way.
00:23:24It's awesome.
00:23:25That's such a better name
00:23:26than station wagon.
00:23:27Yeah.
00:23:28Like, a saloon car is cool.
00:23:29But it does imply
00:23:30that there'll be, like,
00:23:31swinging doors.
00:23:32And the British
00:23:33have once again lied to us.
00:23:34But it's, like,
00:23:35just such a cool-looking car.
00:23:36It makes a lot of sense.
00:23:37Like, you can see
00:23:38Honda's really thought
00:23:39about repackaging a car
00:23:40around a battery
00:23:41instead of what most
00:23:42car makers are doing,
00:23:43which is, like,
00:23:44putting a battery
00:23:45in an existing design
00:23:46but no price,
00:23:47no ship date.
00:23:48We're, like, ages away.
00:23:49We're still in the
00:23:50vaporware car land.
00:23:51And then the other thing
00:23:52that's really interesting
00:23:53is none of the other
00:23:54car makers are here.
00:23:55And so for years,
00:23:56you know,
00:23:57Mercedes would be here
00:23:58and be like,
00:23:59this car has OLEDs
00:24:00on the outside.
00:24:01And then BMW, like,
00:24:02our car has e-ink
00:24:03on the outside.
00:24:04And they'd be like,
00:24:05what about the inside
00:24:06of the car?
00:24:07And then they would
00:24:08show you crazy ideas
00:24:09for, you know,
00:24:10interactive cockpits.
00:24:11And they would talk
00:24:12about EVs endlessly
00:24:13and autonomy endlessly.
00:24:14And none of them
00:24:15had the experience
00:24:16of all of these companies
00:24:17walking back from
00:24:18these wild ideas.
00:24:19Because there was a minute
00:24:20where it was like,
00:24:21this is the future
00:24:22and it is coming right now.
00:24:23And now everybody's like,
00:24:24this is potentially the future
00:24:25and it's coming in
00:24:26a very long time
00:24:27because we can't figure out
00:24:28how to charge these things.
00:24:29Maybe hybrids were the answer.
00:24:30They're counting on
00:24:31widespread electrification,
00:24:32which they have largely
00:24:33achieved in China,
00:24:34but they can't talk
00:24:35about that here.
00:24:36And they are counting
00:24:37on autonomy.
00:24:38And those things
00:24:39are just not happening
00:24:40at the rate that
00:24:41anyone wants them to.
00:24:42Waymo is here,
00:24:43and they're showing
00:24:44the Hyundai Waymo car
00:24:45that they're going to be
00:24:46doing next year,
00:24:47which is an Ioniq 5.
00:24:48And so you have to go
00:24:49from a Jaguar to an Ioniq 5.
00:24:50It's a hard thing
00:24:51to be excited about,
00:24:52but they're trying really hard.
00:24:53Listen,
00:24:54everybody's just out here
00:24:55doing their best.
00:24:56All right,
00:24:57we are already threatening
00:24:58to go way over.
00:24:59So let's get to
00:25:00some of our friends
00:25:01who have been doing
00:25:02much better reporting
00:25:03than we have.
00:25:04All right,
00:25:05we're going to take
00:25:06a quick break
00:25:07and we'll be right back.
00:25:08Support for the show
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00:26:24Alison Johnson's over here.
00:26:25Alison, come hang out with us.
00:26:26Let's talk about CES.
00:26:27Welcome, Alison, everybody.
00:26:32Alison has been talking
00:26:33about a phone toaster
00:26:34nonstop for several days,
00:26:37which I feel like you
00:26:38bring your mic over.
00:26:41There's a bunch of stuff
00:26:42we should talk about,
00:26:43but can we just talk
00:26:44about the phone toaster?
00:26:45I feel like you've
00:26:46like really oversold
00:26:47the phone toaster.
00:26:48Phone toaster.
00:26:49So the story is
00:26:50I got a press release
00:26:52in my inbox
00:26:53and I was so annoyed
00:26:54immediately with phone toaster.
00:26:56I was like,
00:26:57I don't want to hear about this.
00:26:59And then we got here
00:27:00and I was like,
00:27:01well, I should go see
00:27:02the phone toaster.
00:27:03Is it actually called
00:27:04the phone toaster?
00:27:05No.
00:27:06I called it that
00:27:07once in my head
00:27:08and then it was just
00:27:09phone toaster after that.
00:27:12What it is,
00:27:13is the whole thing
00:27:14is called Swippet.
00:27:16It's called Swippet?
00:27:18Swippet.
00:27:20They had phone toaster
00:27:21in their back pocket
00:27:22and they went with Swippet.
00:27:23I know.
00:27:25They went with Swippet.
00:27:28It's like a charging system
00:27:30for your phone
00:27:32where you have
00:27:33the phone case.
00:27:34There's a battery pack
00:27:37in it
00:27:38and
00:27:39you use it
00:27:40like you would a phone
00:27:41with a case and a battery
00:27:42and when it's time to charge,
00:27:44you stick it in the phone toaster
00:27:46and it goes
00:27:47and it swaps out the battery
00:27:49and you take it out.
00:27:50You're good to go.
00:27:51Two seconds.
00:27:52And
00:27:53I was like,
00:27:54I'm still kind of like
00:27:55not understanding this.
00:27:57And they're like,
00:27:58well, you just,
00:27:59you never charge your phone again.
00:28:00You just
00:28:01Swippet.
00:28:02The truth is
00:28:03you perfectly understand it.
00:28:05Don't you need
00:28:06how much does it cost?
00:28:07Okay.
00:28:08So,
00:28:09that's the thing.
00:28:11That's not a good okay.
00:28:13The phone toaster
00:28:14itself,
00:28:15the hub
00:28:16is for
00:28:17it's the hub.
00:28:18Okay.
00:28:19The phone cases
00:28:20are the link.
00:28:21Yeah.
00:28:22Phone toasters
00:28:23$450.
00:28:25Yeah.
00:28:26And the phone case
00:28:27is $120.
00:28:29It doesn't come with a case?
00:28:30You have to buy
00:28:31because you have to buy the one.
00:28:32Can you get the case
00:28:33without getting the toaster?
00:28:34You can.
00:28:35But why would you?
00:28:36Why would you?
00:28:37Okay.
00:28:38That's fair.
00:28:39You need the toaster.
00:28:40And you need multiple.
00:28:41How many batteries are in each toaster?
00:28:42There's five batteries in the toaster.
00:28:45Do you ever say sentences
00:28:46and be like,
00:28:47how did we get here?
00:28:48I'm like,
00:28:49this is what I'm paid to do.
00:28:51And just to wrap it up,
00:28:52so you would need
00:28:53like two.
00:28:54You need like one at home
00:28:55and one in your office
00:28:56or something.
00:28:57So you're like $1,000 deep
00:28:58in the phone toaster.
00:28:59Yeah.
00:29:00You got to invest
00:29:01$1,000 in your toasters
00:29:02and then you never have
00:29:03to charge your phone again.
00:29:05I feel like I can
00:29:06never charge my phone again
00:29:07for $1,000
00:29:08in a variety of different ways.
00:29:10I know.
00:29:11You could have chargers
00:29:12like in every corner of your house.
00:29:13I just think like
00:29:14there's something I appreciate.
00:29:15I feel like I could have two phones.
00:29:17You could have a lot of phones.
00:29:18I'm sorry.
00:29:19Are you telling me
00:29:20you don't find
00:29:21the idea of being able
00:29:22to just like
00:29:23walk into your
00:29:25like living room
00:29:26when you get home
00:29:27and just go like
00:29:28and your phone
00:29:29is magically charged again?
00:29:30Yeah.
00:29:31That kicks ass.
00:29:32It makes me think of like
00:29:33in action movies
00:29:34when the guy can do
00:29:35like a really cool
00:29:36like hot swap
00:29:37of magazines of ammo
00:29:39and it's like
00:29:40they like flip their guns around.
00:29:41That's us.
00:29:42That's what we get now
00:29:43with the phone toaster.
00:29:44For $450.
00:29:46I mean it's called the Swippet.
00:29:49I don't know what else
00:29:50to talk about that.
00:29:51Again, pay my consultancy.
00:29:52I will tell you
00:29:53it should have been the phone toaster.
00:29:54It's the phone toaster.
00:29:55Yeah.
00:29:56I'm just saying.
00:29:57This does remind me
00:29:58that when I got
00:29:59my first Sony Clio
00:30:00it had the little
00:30:01I did practice
00:30:02trying to make that a cool move.
00:30:04Was not successful
00:30:06and remained single
00:30:07throughout high school.
00:30:08Carry on.
00:30:09What else have you seen
00:30:10that's cool?
00:30:11You've been running around
00:30:12seeing all kinds of stuff.
00:30:13I feel like you've had less
00:30:14of a like
00:30:15focused goal at CES
00:30:16and you're more just like
00:30:17what weird things
00:30:18can I encounter?
00:30:19Which is the correct way
00:30:20to do CES.
00:30:21I have the best job
00:30:22and I've never had
00:30:23this job at CES before.
00:30:24This is my
00:30:25sixth CES.
00:30:27Yeah.
00:30:28Because you spent
00:30:29a lot of your time
00:30:30not at CES with phones
00:30:31and there are just
00:30:32no phones here.
00:30:33Yeah.
00:30:34No phones.
00:30:35Not a phone show.
00:30:36I reviewed the OnePlus 13.
00:30:37It's awesome.
00:30:38And then I just
00:30:39left it in my hotel room
00:30:40and I went into the show floor.
00:30:41No.
00:30:42It rules
00:30:43because like
00:30:44I've had the CES experience
00:30:45where you run
00:30:46from meeting to meeting
00:30:47and you're like sweating
00:30:48and you're talking to people
00:30:50and you don't get to see anything.
00:30:52So this year
00:30:53I got to see things
00:30:54and I wandered
00:30:55through the West Hall.
00:30:57I was like
00:30:58I'm just going to like
00:30:59see what's here
00:31:00and get out real quick.
00:31:01Like
00:31:02an hour and a half later
00:31:03I was like
00:31:04taking pictures of myself
00:31:05with every like
00:31:06massive tractor
00:31:07I could find.
00:31:08I was like
00:31:09this is the coolest thing.
00:31:10There's like
00:31:11massive
00:31:12you know
00:31:13electric vehicles
00:31:14and
00:31:15I was like
00:31:16oh I gotta
00:31:17move on.
00:31:18I can't spend my money.
00:31:19Could you do the demo?
00:31:20I think it's Caterpillar
00:31:21has a great demo
00:31:22where you can sit in a cockpit
00:31:23and remote operate
00:31:24a digger
00:31:25that's like
00:31:26hundreds of miles away.
00:31:27No way.
00:31:28And it's like
00:31:29they have a drone
00:31:30looking at the digger
00:31:31and the digger has like
00:31:32on a great
00:31:335G.
00:31:34Yes it's all 5G.
00:31:35Finally the promise of 5G
00:31:36isn't realized.
00:31:37And it's three guys
00:31:38standing in line
00:31:39to operate a digger
00:31:40500 miles away.
00:31:41I knew it.
00:31:43It all happened.
00:31:44We've run the race.
00:31:45We did it.
00:31:46F-U China.
00:31:48Remote controlled digger.
00:31:50There's a long line of people
00:31:51who just like sat in this thing
00:31:52and they like
00:31:53scooped up some dirt
00:31:54and they put the dirt away
00:31:55and it's like
00:31:56they're watching it on a TV
00:31:57and they're like
00:31:58this isn't actually cool.
00:31:59That's what I'm going to do tomorrow.
00:32:01You should go back tomorrow.
00:32:02Yeah.
00:32:03But it was very fun.
00:32:04One guy ran into
00:32:05like he couldn't do it
00:32:06and the guy's like
00:32:07let me find you some
00:32:08looser soil.
00:32:09And I was like
00:32:10that is the harshest burn
00:32:11I've ever had.
00:32:13Now I'm nervous.
00:32:15Let me find you some
00:32:16looser soil
00:32:17is like a motivational poster
00:32:18that I would like to exist.
00:32:19Yeah.
00:32:20Oh no.
00:32:21When life gets hard
00:32:22find looser soil
00:32:23is like that means something to me.
00:32:25That's powerful.
00:32:26Have you seen
00:32:27in Central Hall
00:32:29next to the Samsung booth
00:32:30there's a little booth
00:32:31for just an LED manufacturer.
00:32:34Like they don't
00:32:35make the displays really.
00:32:36They make the LED componentry
00:32:38and they're very proud of
00:32:39apparently they've invented
00:32:40a million things first.
00:32:41Like the first
00:32:42wire free LED circuitry
00:32:44that can do a thing
00:32:45like all this stuff.
00:32:46The first heat resistant
00:32:47whatever.
00:32:48But their tagline
00:32:50I swear to you
00:32:51this is the tagline
00:32:52of this company.
00:32:53Birth is not fair
00:32:54but opportunity is.
00:32:56Opportunity must be fair.
00:32:58And it's like in huge letters
00:33:00and then right below
00:33:01and it's like
00:33:02the future of OLED signage.
00:33:05Wow.
00:33:06Like stick to your guns.
00:33:07Like I go for it.
00:33:09Shout it from the rooftops.
00:33:11Opportunity must be fair.
00:33:13It's like right next
00:33:14to the Samsung booth.
00:33:15So all these people
00:33:16are walking by
00:33:17and like taking selfies
00:33:18with it because it's so weird.
00:33:19And I think it's working.
00:33:20Like I think a lot of people
00:33:21are being radicalized
00:33:22into like an inherently
00:33:23progressive agenda.
00:33:25They wanted to see
00:33:26the frame pro.
00:33:29I feel like that's where
00:33:30your opportunity is
00:33:31to go over and be like
00:33:32actually OLED isn't
00:33:33really massively available yet.
00:33:34It's still too expensive.
00:33:35If we could just work
00:33:36on OLED becoming
00:33:37birth is not fair.
00:33:38Find looser soil.
00:33:41What else have you seen?
00:33:42That's great.
00:33:44So I got to wander
00:33:46around the central hall.
00:33:48So I used to cover cameras
00:33:49full time.
00:33:50I stopped by Nikon
00:33:52and you might be bummed
00:33:54to hear that there are
00:33:55like zero cameras.
00:33:58I was scandalized.
00:34:00There's like airplanes
00:34:02and then someone like doing
00:34:03a fake weather forecast
00:34:04for some reason.
00:34:06But I found.
00:34:08Yeah.
00:34:09I was like sure.
00:34:11But there's a camera
00:34:12they're going to take
00:34:13to the moon
00:34:14and it has a little jacket on.
00:34:16I thought that was so sweet.
00:34:18You get really excited
00:34:19about the jacket.
00:34:20I did.
00:34:21I came back like three times
00:34:22and I was like
00:34:23I want to make sure I get
00:34:24all the facts right
00:34:25about the moon camera.
00:34:27Now I got to just like
00:34:28see the show
00:34:30from the perspective
00:34:31of someone who's just like
00:34:32wants to go see cool shit.
00:34:35The LG booth is awesome.
00:34:37They do the there's
00:34:38a whole thing with the
00:34:39translucent TV panels
00:34:41where like you know
00:34:43you stand around
00:34:44you watch it and it's
00:34:45like jellyfish
00:34:46and then it morphs
00:34:47into other stuff
00:34:48and then they all
00:34:49the panels kind of
00:34:50come out and it's
00:34:51stained glass
00:34:52and it looks like
00:34:53Jesus is about to like
00:34:55emerge from the TVs.
00:34:57Right.
00:34:58I was like this is a
00:34:59spiritual experience
00:35:00right here for some people.
00:35:03But yeah like I just
00:35:04I got to check out
00:35:05Eureka Park.
00:35:06I got to
00:35:07I went to the sphere.
00:35:09Oh for the Delta team.
00:35:10Yeah.
00:35:11I went for that.
00:35:12I was a
00:35:13never been there before.
00:35:14I wasn't prepared
00:35:15for the smell-o-vision
00:35:17like portion of it.
00:35:19They did a thing with
00:35:20Uber Eats where
00:35:22it was like a bit.
00:35:23There was a guy on
00:35:24like a moped like
00:35:25delivering Uber Eats
00:35:27and then they like
00:35:28pump in this smell
00:35:30of like hazelnut
00:35:31and everybody's
00:35:32kind of like do you
00:35:33smell that?
00:35:34It's kind of sweet
00:35:35and then they were like
00:35:36oh a hazelnut coffee
00:35:38just how I like.
00:35:40I was like
00:35:41that's a lot.
00:35:42It was a lot.
00:35:43One thing that I've been
00:35:44dying to ask you about
00:35:45is TCL Nextpaper phone.
00:35:46Yeah.
00:35:48I don't know if
00:35:49you've seen it.
00:35:50As you know David
00:35:51is the number one
00:35:52retail agent for the
00:35:53Boox Palma here in America.
00:35:55Which by the way
00:35:56it currently is in
00:35:57some sort of weird
00:35:58Chinese AI data
00:35:59privacy scandal.
00:36:00So well done David.
00:36:02Way to do an op
00:36:03on the people of America
00:36:04with your weirdy paper phone.
00:36:06I believe I advocated
00:36:07for mostly using
00:36:08that thing in airplane mode
00:36:09so I'm good.
00:36:10I feel fine about it.
00:36:11So we've just seen
00:36:13a lot of interest
00:36:14in these like minimal phones
00:36:16and it's a secondary device.
00:36:17Right.
00:36:18Like I don't
00:36:19it doesn't make any sense
00:36:20to me to have an E-Ink phone
00:36:21as your primary device.
00:36:22And so TCL
00:36:23this is like their
00:36:24second or third
00:36:25Nextpaper phone.
00:36:26And they have
00:36:27matte displays
00:36:28and then you can switch them
00:36:29to black and white mode.
00:36:30But this year they look
00:36:31almost like E-Ink.
00:36:33Yeah.
00:36:34Yeah.
00:36:35They've been doing
00:36:36this Nextpaper thing
00:36:37and it like
00:36:38was in the tablets first
00:36:39and then they brought it
00:36:40to the phones.
00:36:41And the thing that
00:36:42I'm most excited about
00:36:43and I think you are too
00:36:44is the Nextpaper key
00:36:46which is just a little
00:36:47slider button
00:36:48on the side of the phone
00:36:50that puts it into
00:36:51Max Ink mode.
00:36:53And that just
00:36:54That's where it looks
00:36:55the most like E-Ink mode.
00:36:56Yeah.
00:36:57That's the like E-Ink mode.
00:36:58And it's like monochrome.
00:36:59David's Consultancy
00:37:00approves of that.
00:37:01Yeah.
00:37:02You just like
00:37:03pretend your phone
00:37:04is an E-Ink phone
00:37:05for a minute
00:37:06and it's like
00:37:07Does it work?
00:37:08Like I feel like
00:37:09we've seen a lot of companies
00:37:10do this thing
00:37:11where they're like
00:37:12it's an LCD
00:37:13but it's a better one
00:37:14to look at
00:37:15and you're like
00:37:16oh, it's the best right now.
00:37:17The Daylight.
00:37:18The Daylight.
00:37:19And they were all in.
00:37:20They're like
00:37:21this will save you.
00:37:22It was one of those
00:37:23like it had some interesting ideas
00:37:24but it is a little bit like
00:37:25the sort of jack-of-all-trades
00:37:26and master-of-none thing
00:37:27where it's like
00:37:28it almost accomplishes
00:37:29all of its goals
00:37:30but it actually accomplishes
00:37:31none of them.
00:37:32And I feel like this has been true
00:37:33with a lot of these things
00:37:34which is why I end up
00:37:35going back to E-Ink
00:37:36because it's like
00:37:37sure it's slow refresh rate
00:37:38and it doesn't work
00:37:39super well in certain conditions
00:37:40but like it does
00:37:41the thing it's supposed to do
00:37:42which is not
00:37:43glare light in your eyes
00:37:45Does Nextpaper like
00:37:46can it do the middle thing?
00:37:47Kind of.
00:37:48I mean there's like
00:37:50they have a matte
00:37:51kind of finish on the screen
00:37:52and they
00:37:54they say all this stuff about
00:37:55it's like
00:37:56you know
00:37:57rated to be really easy
00:37:58on your eyes
00:37:59and the blue light
00:38:00and all that
00:38:01but like
00:38:02really it's just
00:38:03But really the thing that happens
00:38:04is you flip the switch
00:38:05on the side of the screen
00:38:06and like
00:38:07smoke comes out
00:38:08from the middle of the screen
00:38:09like there's an animation
00:38:10that's like
00:38:11E-Ink is eating your display
00:38:12from the inside out.
00:38:13It's very sci-fi
00:38:14and then it like
00:38:15takes over
00:38:16it shuts down the screen
00:38:17and comes back
00:38:18as an E-Ink screen.
00:38:19Also for some
00:38:20extremely convoluted reason
00:38:21it quits all of their apps.
00:38:23Yeah.
00:38:24So it's not great
00:38:25in that sense.
00:38:26I literally believed you
00:38:27when you said smoke comes out.
00:38:28Like I was honestly
00:38:29like that makes sense.
00:38:30Yeah.
00:38:31The phone explodes
00:38:32and you're left with a Kindle.
00:38:33Yeah.
00:38:34The prestige.
00:38:35When you flip it back
00:38:36like a purple-y smoke
00:38:38emerges from the middle of the screen.
00:38:39Yeah.
00:38:40It's like a ripple.
00:38:41And there's a middle one
00:38:42which is like
00:38:43a desaturated color E-Ink.
00:38:44And it's just like
00:38:45the thing like
00:38:46I've watched people
00:38:47cruise by all kinds
00:38:48of dumb AI ideas
00:38:49all day today
00:38:50and everyone stopped
00:38:51at the next paper booth.
00:38:52Because the idea
00:38:53that you have a phone
00:38:54where you're reading it
00:38:55looks more like paper
00:38:56is inherently very compelling.
00:38:57And to me it's like
00:38:59oh maybe that's like
00:39:00the most interesting phone
00:39:01we're going to see for a while
00:39:02because it's not like
00:39:03AI is going to do anything.
00:39:05I know.
00:39:06Yeah.
00:39:07All right Allison
00:39:08before we ruthlessly
00:39:09kick you off the stage
00:39:10we have to talk about
00:39:11the thing that you
00:39:12and I both got
00:39:13I would say
00:39:14unnecessarily excited about
00:39:15at CES Unveiled.
00:39:16Yeah I scooped you.
00:39:17You did.
00:39:18It was honestly
00:39:19we have a Slack room
00:39:20where we were talking about
00:39:21the stuff we were going
00:39:22to write about
00:39:23and I was like
00:39:24I'm doing this now.
00:39:25Allison was like
00:39:26I did it already.
00:39:27Nope.
00:39:28It's the meanest thing
00:39:29that's ever happened to me.
00:39:30It's a top
00:39:31for your water bottle.
00:39:32What's the whole thing?
00:39:33Explain this to the people
00:39:34who should all buy
00:39:35this thing immediately.
00:39:36It is SodaStream
00:39:37but for HydroFlask.
00:39:38Like that's it.
00:39:39It's a little top.
00:39:40You put the CO2 canister in
00:39:42and there's like
00:39:43a little plastic lid
00:39:44you put on top
00:39:45and it does the
00:39:46carbonation thing
00:39:47and then you have
00:39:49sparkling water
00:39:50and you can be free
00:39:51and walk with it.
00:39:52It's honestly
00:39:53it's all I've ever wanted.
00:39:54I don't know why
00:39:55I got so excited about this
00:39:56but the idea of like
00:39:57and they make a like
00:39:58specific water bottle
00:39:59and you're like
00:40:00you can have
00:40:01your still water bottle
00:40:02and your sparkling water bottle.
00:40:03You like drop the little capsule in
00:40:04and it's a dream.
00:40:05How many uses
00:40:06do you get out of each capsule?
00:40:07Who cares?
00:40:08Don't ask questions.
00:40:09It's good.
00:40:10$5,000.
00:40:11It's a $50 water bottle.
00:40:12You never charge your phone.
00:40:13It has a subscription
00:40:14and it's tracking you.
00:40:15Yes.
00:40:16And you have sparkling water
00:40:17for the rest of your life.
00:40:18It's important.
00:40:19You know sparkling water
00:40:20is freely available.
00:40:21Okay.
00:40:22We don't all have that
00:40:23LaCroix money.
00:40:24Yeah.
00:40:25All right.
00:40:26Yeah.
00:40:27All right Allison.
00:40:29You're going to come back
00:40:30when we do some Q&A stuff
00:40:31but for now go away.
00:40:32Okay.
00:40:33We have to move on.
00:40:34Thank you Allison.
00:40:35Yeah.
00:40:36Jen Tui.
00:40:37Come hang out with us.
00:40:38Let's talk smart home things.
00:40:40Jen Tui.
00:40:41Everybody should know this.
00:40:42All of our team is wonderful
00:40:43but no one at CES
00:40:44is a celebrity
00:40:45quite like Jen Tui
00:40:46is a celebrity.
00:40:47Yeah.
00:40:48Anyone who makes
00:40:49a smart home anything
00:40:50which is everyone at CES
00:40:52is like largely obsessed
00:40:54with Jen Tui.
00:40:55Yeah.
00:40:56Welcome.
00:40:57We're very excited you're here.
00:40:58I was with Owen
00:40:59our videographer today
00:41:00and I had quite a few people
00:41:02in fact I see some
00:41:03in the audience
00:41:04who I yeah
00:41:05come up to me
00:41:06and was like
00:41:07said how wonderful
00:41:08they love The Verge
00:41:09but that I'm their favorite.
00:41:10So yeah.
00:41:12A few also said
00:41:13they were going to subscribe.
00:41:14There you go.
00:41:15That's what
00:41:16we have a subscription fee.
00:41:18But you get sparkling water.
00:41:20Can we talk about robot vacuums?
00:41:21Yeah.
00:41:22All I want to talk about
00:41:23in the whole world
00:41:24is robot vacuums.
00:41:25I have become
00:41:26completely sold
00:41:28on all weird
00:41:29robot vacuums
00:41:30ideas this week.
00:41:31That's good
00:41:32because there are a lot of them.
00:41:33There's so many of them.
00:41:34I just want to
00:41:35I want you to explain
00:41:36the ones that you've seen
00:41:37and like the best
00:41:38but the one that I got to see
00:41:39that is my favorite
00:41:40was there's a Roborock one
00:41:42that is just
00:41:43it's just a Roomba looking thing
00:41:46but it has a robotic arm
00:41:48that comes out
00:41:49I mean so slowly
00:41:50so slowly
00:41:52it just
00:41:53it slowly comes out
00:41:54and it kind of goes like this
00:41:55and then if it like
00:41:56sees a sock next to it
00:41:57it just sort of
00:41:58gently reaches over
00:41:59and picks up the sock
00:42:00and then just moves with it somewhere
00:42:02and then just puts the sock down
00:42:04in a different place.
00:42:05Correct.
00:42:06And there was a person
00:42:07at the Roborock's booth
00:42:08whose job was to reach over
00:42:10and put the sock back
00:42:11in the vacuum's way.
00:42:13And it was
00:42:14I stood there for like
00:42:15much too long
00:42:16watching this person
00:42:17just slowly
00:42:18fight with the vacuum
00:42:19about where the sock should go.
00:42:20Did you see them doing their dance?
00:42:22No.
00:42:23There's a dance?
00:42:24They had a whole row of them
00:42:26stacked right at the front of the booth
00:42:28and they had them
00:42:29dancing and sinking their arms.
00:42:31Incredible.
00:42:32I know. It was pretty great.
00:42:33Can I just say
00:42:35everyone wants to talk about
00:42:36humanoid robots
00:42:37I'm afraid of the vacuums
00:42:39that have limbs.
00:42:41Before we got on stage
00:42:42Jen was like
00:42:43one of them has legs.
00:42:44That's just a thing
00:42:45she casually said
00:42:46and I was like
00:42:47I'm going to find out more soon.
00:42:48Legs and arm.
00:42:51They're elevated
00:42:52throughout the week
00:42:53so it started
00:42:54and we actually got to see
00:42:55the Roborock
00:42:56sneak peek
00:42:57last month
00:42:58so we were
00:42:59all prepped for the arms
00:43:00and in fact
00:43:01when we were
00:43:02all prepped for the arm
00:43:03the uprising
00:43:04the robot uprising
00:43:05is coming.
00:43:06And then
00:43:07the other
00:43:08so there are lots of competitors
00:43:09in the Roborock
00:43:10Robovac space
00:43:11and Roborock
00:43:12came out with the arm
00:43:13and then
00:43:14Dreamy
00:43:15came out with
00:43:16the legs
00:43:17and then
00:43:18that was their debut
00:43:19and these are robots
00:43:20that are coming
00:43:21you're going to be able to buy
00:43:22in the next couple of months.
00:43:23These aren't concept vacuums
00:43:24and then I went to the Dreamy booth
00:43:25and they're like
00:43:26oh but now we have one
00:43:27that has legs
00:43:28and an arm.
00:43:30So
00:43:31this is
00:43:32it said actually
00:43:33that it'll be out
00:43:34by the end of the year.
00:43:35How fast can it run?
00:43:36So this is
00:43:37it's the legs
00:43:38are a little
00:43:39I mean it's
00:43:40they just basically
00:43:41raise the robot up
00:43:42far enough
00:43:43so that it can kind of
00:43:44get over
00:43:45a transition
00:43:46like if you've ever
00:43:47had a robot vacuum
00:43:48that can't get into your bathroom
00:43:49because you've got like
00:43:50a high ledge
00:43:51and then it kind of
00:43:52the legs kind of collapse
00:43:53from under it
00:43:54and it goes forward.
00:43:55So it's not like
00:43:56it's going to climb up
00:43:57your staircase
00:43:58to the second floor.
00:43:59You can almost like
00:44:00hear it go
00:44:01plunging over.
00:44:02Well and when I was
00:44:03watching the one
00:44:04with the legs
00:44:05and the arm
00:44:06he said
00:44:07well we kind of
00:44:08modeled it after a horse
00:44:10and you can see
00:44:11the legs go up
00:44:12and then the arm goes up
00:44:13and it's like
00:44:16I want to be clear
00:44:17this is a vacuum cleaner.
00:44:20So the idea is
00:44:21if anyone's ever
00:44:22used a robot vacuum
00:44:23they often get stuck
00:44:24or if you've left
00:44:25your socks out
00:44:26they'll suck up your socks
00:44:27and then there's
00:44:28AI powered obstacle avoidance
00:44:29which is supposed to
00:44:30go around the sock
00:44:31but then they haven't
00:44:32cleaned the floor
00:44:33where the sock was.
00:44:34So this idea is
00:44:35it's going to
00:44:36pick up your sock
00:44:37you can tell it
00:44:38where to put it
00:44:39and so it'll go
00:44:40put it in a basket
00:44:41or the dreamy one
00:44:42can pick up shoes
00:44:43so it can go put
00:44:44It's strong enough
00:44:45to pick up a shoe?
00:44:46500 grams.
00:44:47We're done for.
00:44:48It's over now.
00:44:49It can hop like a horse
00:44:50and pick up shoes?
00:44:51I don't like this.
00:44:52And this one actually
00:44:53the new dreamy one
00:44:54can use tools.
00:44:56Yeah, I actually
00:44:57don't like that.
00:44:58I changed my mind.
00:44:59I'm out.
00:45:00They've all seen
00:45:01the movies, right?
00:45:02Yeah.
00:45:03But the ultimate idea
00:45:04is they'll clean everywhere
00:45:05because right now
00:45:06they are kind of spotty.
00:45:07Yeah.
00:45:08But it'll
00:45:09and it has
00:45:10this little arm
00:45:11kind of goes into
00:45:12a toolbox
00:45:13and takes a tool out
00:45:14but yes I could
00:45:15I mean right now
00:45:16it's a soft brush
00:45:17but you know
00:45:18when it's like
00:45:19a little chainsaw
00:45:20This is a full
00:45:21like BattleBots
00:45:22situation you're describing.
00:45:23Well I kept saying
00:45:24you're across the way
00:45:25from each other
00:45:26can we just get
00:45:27the two robots together
00:45:28and go for it?
00:45:29But no,
00:45:30they weren't having any.
00:45:31Like are
00:45:32is there a list
00:45:33of acceptable tools?
00:45:35It's just little brushes.
00:45:36It's mostly brushes.
00:45:37Brushes.
00:45:38Because like
00:45:39you give this robot a hammer
00:45:40like all kinds of weird shit.
00:45:42Just checking.
00:45:43Alright.
00:45:44But they're everywhere.
00:45:45Robots with arms, legs
00:45:46all sorts of things.
00:45:47It does seem like
00:45:49in terms of just like
00:45:50household robots
00:45:51it's the vacuums
00:45:52that people are like
00:45:53these are the ones
00:45:54people actually buy
00:45:55and everything else
00:45:56is kind of
00:45:57and so there's just
00:45:58a tremendous amount
00:45:59of weird vacuum
00:46:00ideas.
00:46:01It's where the innovation is
00:46:02definitely
00:46:03in the robot space
00:46:04because
00:46:05and I've talked about this before
00:46:06you know the whole
00:46:07kind of dream is
00:46:08the Rosie the robot
00:46:09the humanoid
00:46:10but that's
00:46:11you know
00:46:12if and when that ever comes
00:46:13it's going to be
00:46:14no one's going to be able
00:46:15to afford it
00:46:16and it's going to be
00:46:17kind of scary.
00:46:18So for me
00:46:19the idea of like
00:46:20modular
00:46:21single purpose
00:46:22robots
00:46:23or robots
00:46:24that can do
00:46:25one or two
00:46:26tasks
00:46:27rather than
00:46:28like a big
00:46:29powerful
00:46:30humanoid robot
00:46:31roaming around your house
00:46:32makes a lot more sense
00:46:33and in fact
00:46:34SwitchBot
00:46:35who's kind of known
00:46:36for quite innovative
00:46:37slightly janky
00:46:38products
00:46:39came out with
00:46:41a modular robot platform
00:46:43so the little
00:46:44it has a little robot
00:46:45with something
00:46:46it's called a fusion platform
00:46:47that goes on top
00:46:48and then you can put
00:46:49different accessories
00:46:50and it will drive
00:46:51around your house
00:46:52and like
00:46:53bring you things
00:46:54it has
00:46:55you can put a fan on it
00:46:56so you can have it
00:46:57like come and
00:46:58keep you cool
00:46:59purify the air
00:47:00so this is like
00:47:01you know
00:47:02you forgot the one
00:47:03where it'll do a telepresence robot
00:47:04it's just a big
00:47:05big ass selfie stick
00:47:06that you can just
00:47:07put your phone on
00:47:08and then it'll just
00:47:09wander around your house
00:47:10yes
00:47:11sold
00:47:12all the way back
00:47:13to an iPad
00:47:14on a Segway
00:47:15it also cleans your floors
00:47:16at the same time
00:47:17like 10 years ago
00:47:18I walked around CS
00:47:19and people were like
00:47:20we actually
00:47:21we have a great video
00:47:22from ages ago
00:47:23James Vincent
00:47:24just came
00:47:25to our office
00:47:26from his home
00:47:27in London
00:47:28as an iPod
00:47:29on a stick
00:47:30or an iPad on a stick
00:47:31and his conclusion
00:47:32was like
00:47:33no one respects me
00:47:37because he's like
00:47:38it's hard
00:47:39alright
00:47:40I'm saying
00:47:41good luck to everyone
00:47:42I do like the idea
00:47:43of them though
00:47:44like the idea
00:47:45that you have
00:47:46this little tiny thing
00:47:47that A does a thing
00:47:48it cleans your floors
00:47:49like understands
00:47:50and has mapped your house
00:47:51knows how to move around
00:47:52the idea that there's more stuff
00:47:53you can do with that
00:47:54can use tools
00:47:55and throw shoes
00:47:56yeah that I'm less excited about
00:47:57the can you
00:47:58can open a box
00:47:59and use tools
00:48:00could go sideways
00:48:01but air purifiers
00:48:02and selfie sticks
00:48:03I'm into
00:48:04yeah
00:48:05this works
00:48:06it's gonna roll up
00:48:07and like a puff of smoke
00:48:08is gonna come out
00:48:09and fall to the ground
00:48:10yeah
00:48:11wake up without a kidney
00:48:12what is going on
00:48:13use tools
00:48:14yeah
00:48:15think about it
00:48:16I'm just saying
00:48:17I'm fine with this
00:48:18I'm fine with this
00:48:19it doesn't look like a person
00:48:20so it's less creepy
00:48:22well actually the switchbot
00:48:23they are working on an arm
00:48:24for the switchbot
00:48:25and a little face
00:48:27alright speaking of horrors
00:48:28let's talk about matter
00:48:30there's a lot of matter stuff here
00:48:33there is an entire
00:48:34door lock
00:48:35camera
00:48:36biometric handle
00:48:38it's the year of the door lock
00:48:39I called it
00:48:40yeah
00:48:41your most
00:48:42the product you listed here
00:48:43is most likely to buy
00:48:44is the new
00:48:45schlage lock
00:48:46that has ultra wide band
00:48:47yes
00:48:48and I believe
00:48:49I was reading Jen's write up
00:48:50and it's like
00:48:51it calculates your velocity
00:48:52as you approach the door
00:48:53which is just not a thing
00:48:54that you think
00:48:55a door lock needs to do
00:48:56well so the idea is
00:48:57I actually got a demo
00:48:58of it this evening
00:48:59they're not showing it
00:49:00on the show floor
00:49:01they did
00:49:02that was all they released
00:49:03but they did give me
00:49:04a little sneak peek
00:49:05just before I came here
00:49:06and the idea of the velocity
00:49:07is if you're
00:49:08so UWB is like
00:49:09what we
00:49:10what's in use
00:49:11in cars now
00:49:12for automatic unlocking
00:49:13and so it
00:49:14it's precise positioning
00:49:15so it knows
00:49:16how you're approaching
00:49:17so this way
00:49:18if you're
00:49:19walking sideways
00:49:20across your
00:49:21front lawn
00:49:22your door's not gonna unlock
00:49:23it knows
00:49:24that your
00:49:25your trajectory
00:49:26towards the lock
00:49:27so as you're walking
00:49:28towards the lock
00:49:29if you're running
00:49:30it will unlock faster
00:49:31like say you wanna get
00:49:32in your house quick
00:49:33does it like
00:49:34whip open the door
00:49:35if you really wanna
00:49:36surprise somebody
00:49:37it's like the vacuum
00:49:38is coming
00:49:39unlock the door
00:49:40but it's a great
00:49:41I think the UWB technology
00:49:42is really what's gonna
00:49:43push smart locks
00:49:44into the mainstream
00:49:45because
00:49:46to date
00:49:47access control
00:49:48has been kind of
00:49:49fiddly
00:49:50the fingerprint
00:49:51is my favorite option
00:49:52but for a lot of people
00:49:53it's not a great option
00:49:54fingerprints can be
00:49:55you know
00:49:56don't always get recognized
00:49:57it's fiddly to set up
00:49:58and then the keypad
00:49:59obviously that's
00:50:00that almost takes
00:50:01as long time
00:50:02as getting your key out
00:50:03if you're putting that
00:50:04and then they've had
00:50:05this idea
00:50:06of automatic unlocking
00:50:07for a while
00:50:08but it's never been
00:50:09very good
00:50:10because it uses
00:50:11Wi-Fi
00:50:12and
00:50:13and
00:50:15geofencing
00:50:16and a few different radios
00:50:17so like
00:50:18there's so many
00:50:19failure points
00:50:20whereas this is just
00:50:21point to point
00:50:22radio to radio
00:50:23as you approach
00:50:24the door will unlock
00:50:25and it unlocks
00:50:26before you get there
00:50:27so you're not
00:50:28standing there
00:50:29like a lemon
00:50:30for like 30 seconds
00:50:31waiting for your door
00:50:32to unlock
00:50:33which has happened
00:50:34to me regularly
00:50:35so
00:50:36quick question
00:50:37how do lemons stand?
00:50:38it's an English term
00:50:39backing up Brits
00:50:40in their saloon
00:50:41I'm like
00:50:42I'm super fascinated
00:50:43by this
00:50:44because there's also
00:50:45a new
00:50:46there's standards
00:50:47on top of standards
00:50:48right?
00:50:49yes
00:50:50so this is Aliro
00:50:51it's called Aliro
00:50:52so this isn't
00:50:53so Aliro is coming
00:50:54this year
00:50:55the classic
00:50:56smart home store
00:50:57yes
00:50:58and
00:50:59it's been known
00:51:00like so Aliro
00:51:01like Matter
00:51:02Aliro has been
00:51:03it's like an industry
00:51:04collaboration
00:51:05between Apple
00:51:06Google
00:51:07Samsung
00:51:08and then all the
00:51:09lockmakers
00:51:10and it's an access
00:51:11control standard
00:51:12so you can lock
00:51:13any door lock
00:51:14obviously authorised
00:51:15not just
00:51:16so rather than having
00:51:17to have a specific
00:51:18platform to use
00:51:19your smart lock
00:51:20or a specific
00:51:21smartphone
00:51:22any UWB device
00:51:23or NFC
00:51:24so it's bringing
00:51:25Apple home key
00:51:26the idea of home key
00:51:27to all phones
00:51:28so right now
00:51:29if you've ever used
00:51:30Apple home key
00:51:31it's very convenient
00:51:32tap your watch
00:51:33to your lock
00:51:34tap your phone
00:51:35to your lock
00:51:36unlocks it
00:51:37but you can't use that
00:51:38if you have an Android phone
00:51:39but now that's
00:51:40with Aliro
00:51:41you can have
00:51:42NFC unlocking
00:51:43for all phones
00:51:44and UWB unlocking
00:51:45for all compatible phones
00:51:46obviously you have to have
00:51:47UWB and NFC
00:51:48in your phone
00:51:49but that's
00:51:50that's been coming
00:51:51for a while
00:51:52there's a lot of
00:51:53phones and watches
00:51:54that now have that
00:51:55so I think
00:51:56I mean it's going to
00:51:57take a while
00:51:58the Aliro standard
00:51:59is going to be
00:52:00announced
00:52:01like what it is
00:52:02the spec
00:52:03this year
00:52:04but I think
00:52:05the lock manufacturers
00:52:06are already starting
00:52:07to make
00:52:08the locks to work
00:52:09with it
00:52:10and I think
00:52:11they announced
00:52:12last year
00:52:13yes last year
00:52:14that they are
00:52:15supporting the UWB
00:52:16hands-free unlocking
00:52:17so there's a lot
00:52:18of momentum there
00:52:19and it is
00:52:20it's a really
00:52:21seamless experience
00:52:22compared to most
00:52:23of the other ways
00:52:24that you use smart locks
00:52:25so I think
00:52:26we're going to see
00:52:27a real uptick
00:52:28do you have a smart lock?
00:52:29Yeah
00:52:30I've got the Encode Plus
00:52:31which is home key
00:52:32and then I have
00:52:33the cheap Aquera one
00:52:34which is also home key
00:52:35and that one
00:52:36you get what you pay for
00:52:37it's just like
00:52:38sort of straightforwardly
00:52:39you get what you pay for
00:52:40but it's great
00:52:41because we just tap
00:52:42the phone on the door
00:52:43and it unlocks
00:52:44and the problem is
00:52:45sometimes I have
00:52:46an Android phone
00:52:47and then I
00:52:48can't do that
00:52:49and like
00:52:50it seems like all this
00:52:51is just one turn too late
00:52:52I know you're calling it
00:52:53the year of the smart lock
00:52:54but it
00:52:55and there's a rumor
00:52:56that Apple will make
00:52:57a lock this year
00:52:58which is very funny
00:52:59like of all the products
00:53:00that Apple should make
00:53:01with the video built in
00:53:02and that's the other thing
00:53:03we saw
00:53:04video doorbells
00:53:05built into smart locks
00:53:06everywhere
00:53:07and palm unlocking
00:53:08I think Philips
00:53:09not Philips Hue
00:53:10what does it
00:53:11like your palm
00:53:12yeah they say it's a lot
00:53:13more secure
00:53:14than a fingerprint
00:53:15apparently your palm
00:53:16has more
00:53:17sure
00:53:18things going on
00:53:19I don't know
00:53:20what we're beating
00:53:21is like a key
00:53:22and a lock
00:53:23like I think a fingerprint
00:53:24is probably fine
00:53:25we're still moving
00:53:26in the right direction
00:53:27but then it's
00:53:28the hands free element
00:53:29you know you just
00:53:30this is not hands free
00:53:31but it is
00:53:32because you're not actually touching
00:53:33this is like
00:53:34the most hands
00:53:35actually
00:53:36there's no
00:53:38very much hand
00:53:39yeah
00:53:40it's it's
00:53:41I'd say it's in between
00:53:42sure
00:53:43this is why I wanted
00:53:44to just whip open the door
00:53:45when I walk up
00:53:46see that
00:53:47it doesn't do
00:53:48can you set the velocity
00:53:49can you be like
00:53:50this is how fast
00:53:51I can run
00:53:52you know it
00:53:53so that's what
00:53:54I hadn't
00:53:55Schlage
00:53:56was the first company
00:53:57I'd heard
00:53:58talk about velocity
00:53:59so but I think
00:54:00that's neat
00:54:01because if you are
00:54:02in a hurry
00:54:03rather than it
00:54:04you suddenly
00:54:05have to stop
00:54:06so that's why
00:54:07it can anticipate
00:54:08it's reacting to you
00:54:09and that's really
00:54:10where the smart home
00:54:11is going I think
00:54:12it's like
00:54:13it anticipates your needs
00:54:14rather than you
00:54:15needing to tell it
00:54:16what you want to do
00:54:17or program it
00:54:18or put buttons in
00:54:19you know push buttons
00:54:20put your fingerprint
00:54:21and the smart
00:54:22your home
00:54:23is starting to react to you
00:54:24and that's kind of
00:54:25where we're moving I think
00:54:26so what's really interesting
00:54:27is you know
00:54:28Apple
00:54:29this is kind of
00:54:30the second time
00:54:31they've pulled this move
00:54:32right
00:54:33they did HomeKit
00:54:34and then they gave
00:54:35a lot of HomeKey
00:54:36away to be a Lero
00:54:37and we'll see
00:54:38if that comes to
00:54:39anything
00:54:40right
00:54:41but like you can see
00:54:42like they're moving
00:54:43more things into
00:54:44the industry ecosystem
00:54:45because they
00:54:46they just need
00:54:47the ecosystem to exist
00:54:48right
00:54:49very very few companies
00:54:50want to make stuff
00:54:51for just one platform
00:54:52especially at the scale
00:54:53most of these companies
00:54:54operate at
00:54:55but then the rumors
00:54:56are like
00:54:57Apple will just
00:54:58make a lock
00:54:59with a face
00:55:00like face ID
00:55:01built into it
00:55:02and that makes no sense
00:55:03to me
00:55:04because this year
00:55:05Apple will do
00:55:06like a smart home
00:55:07iPad situation
00:55:08that we'll get
00:55:09but then I'm just
00:55:10like looking at
00:55:11the other news here
00:55:12which is
00:55:13Aquara has announced
00:55:14like a wall mountable
00:55:15smart home controller
00:55:16yes
00:55:17and you're like
00:55:18oh they're just going to
00:55:19kill their
00:55:20this ecosystem of products
00:55:21they need
00:55:22to make this work
00:55:23that they keep giving
00:55:24the standards away to
00:55:25they're just going to
00:55:26eat them
00:55:27like
00:55:28it's like the Aquara
00:55:29thing is wild
00:55:30so has anybody ever
00:55:31Paul is here
00:55:32I know he has
00:55:33I know you have
00:55:34a home assistant
00:55:35is here
00:55:36I know this person
00:55:37has done it
00:55:38but has anybody ever
00:55:39been like
00:55:40I'm going to put an
00:55:41iPad on my wall
00:55:42to control my
00:55:43smart home stuff
00:55:44it's this
00:55:45yes
00:55:46it's our audience
00:55:47I know
00:55:48more of you
00:55:49than subscribe
00:55:50to the art store
00:55:51on the frame TV
00:55:52that's what I want
00:55:53to say
00:55:54and it's like hard
00:55:55it's just like
00:55:56a fundamentally
00:55:57complicated idea
00:55:58because you got
00:55:59to get power
00:56:00to the iPad
00:56:01you got to keep
00:56:03and so
00:56:04Aquara has these
00:56:05new ones
00:56:06I think you've
00:56:07actually seen them
00:56:08where they just
00:56:09replace your light
00:56:10switches in the way
00:56:11that
00:56:12has anybody ever
00:56:13seen the new
00:56:14like aftermarket
00:56:15screens you can
00:56:16put in cars
00:56:17where you just
00:56:18like take out
00:56:19the old radio
00:56:20and they're just
00:56:21like fuck it
00:56:22tablet
00:56:23yeah
00:56:24covers up all
00:56:25the vents
00:56:26and now it's like
00:56:27what if we do
00:56:28that in your house
00:56:29it's like we're
00:56:30going to take
00:56:31from the power
00:56:32to your light
00:56:33switch
00:56:34and then this
00:56:35will be the panel
00:56:36and this feels
00:56:37like the new
00:56:38thing to me
00:56:39yeah
00:56:40it's smart home
00:56:41control interfaces
00:56:42which is something
00:56:43I go on about a lot
00:56:44on the site
00:56:45it's like because
00:56:46voice and phone
00:56:47control are just
00:56:48not compatible
00:56:49in a household
00:56:50where there's more
00:56:51than one person
00:56:52you need ways
00:56:53to control
00:56:54your smart home
00:56:55and Brilliant
00:56:56was the first
00:56:57sort of company
00:56:58in this space
00:56:59that did replacing
00:57:00and the problem
00:57:01now is that
00:57:02with Matter
00:57:03you've now got
00:57:04you're not locking
00:57:05yourself into an ecosystem
00:57:06and the problem
00:57:07had been
00:57:08even though Brilliant
00:57:09tried with integrations
00:57:10is that there just
00:57:11weren't enough things
00:57:12if you're going to
00:57:13wire something
00:57:14to your house
00:57:15it needs to
00:57:16control everything
00:57:17and Acara
00:57:18right now
00:57:19is not quite there
00:57:20but with Matter
00:57:21they're saying
00:57:22they're going to be able
00:57:23to you basically
00:57:24eventually be able
00:57:25to control
00:57:26any Matter
00:57:27compatible device
00:57:28straight from
00:57:29the problem
00:57:30of your lights
00:57:31you can
00:57:32you know
00:57:33dim
00:57:34change colors
00:57:35set scenes
00:57:36using the
00:57:37touch panel
00:57:38for the light
00:57:39that it's wired to
00:57:40and then any other
00:57:41lights in your home
00:57:42or maybe your
00:57:43door lock
00:57:44it's also
00:57:45a video intercom
00:57:46so if you have
00:57:47video doorbell
00:57:48it'll pull up
00:57:49when someone rings
00:57:50you can talk to them
00:57:51it has a little
00:57:52microphone
00:57:53it's big
00:57:54and chunky though
00:57:55and there's a spousal
00:57:56approval factor
00:57:57when it comes to
00:57:58your favorite
00:57:59one of the Acara
00:58:00they showed off
00:58:01three touch screen
00:58:02panels
00:58:03and one has a
00:58:04little dial
00:58:05it has a tiny little
00:58:06screen in it
00:58:07that you can
00:58:08swipe the screen
00:58:09to choose what
00:58:10you want to select
00:58:11so say I want to
00:58:12turn on the living
00:58:13room lights
00:58:14or dim them
00:58:15and then it has
00:58:16this lovely tactile
00:58:17dial that you can
00:58:18just turn
00:58:19and that's
00:58:20you know
00:58:21what else is like
00:58:22cool and tactile
00:58:23is light switches
00:58:24they're like
00:58:25they feel so good
00:58:26spousal approval
00:58:27so a light switch
00:58:28turns your light
00:58:29on and off
00:58:30or maybe dims it
00:58:31this I can
00:58:32swipe and touch
00:58:33one button
00:58:34and like all the
00:58:35lights in my house
00:58:36or in my living room
00:58:37will set to a
00:58:38mood you know
00:58:39the mood
00:58:40the movie time
00:58:41dim to a certain
00:58:42light
00:58:43maybe throw in
00:58:44a little funky
00:58:45color
00:58:46just for some
00:58:47you know
00:58:48fun
00:58:49no I'm not
00:58:50selling you on it
00:58:51how many people
00:58:52in your household
00:58:53know successfully
00:58:54how to operate
00:58:55this thing
00:58:56and that's
00:58:57what you know
00:58:58because I struggle
00:58:59my family struggles
00:59:00with my smart home
00:59:01a lot
00:59:02and I've left them
00:59:03for a week
00:59:04and I'm terrified
00:59:05of what I'm going
00:59:06to find when I get
00:59:07home
00:59:08Jen once told me
00:59:09that her teenage
00:59:10children don't know
00:59:11how to use keys
00:59:12because she's had
00:59:13smart locks for so long
00:59:14they've never used
00:59:15and it just seems
00:59:16like a life skill
00:59:17that we should
00:59:18whoa
00:59:19yeah we should
00:59:20come back to
00:59:21I don't like that
00:59:22at all
00:59:23I don't think my
00:59:24daughter will know
00:59:25just speed it up
00:59:26just back up
00:59:27and try it again
00:59:28it'll unlock this time
00:59:29alright Jen
00:59:30you're going to come
00:59:31back for Q&A
00:59:32because there are
00:59:33I know for sure
00:59:34people in this audience
00:59:35who want to yell
00:59:36at us about matter
00:59:37but for now
00:59:38thank you
00:59:39it's not allowed
00:59:40to be powerless
00:59:41though
00:59:42he's here
00:59:43it's allowed
00:59:44thank you
00:59:45Jen
00:59:46alright we're going
00:59:47to take a quick
00:59:48break and we'll be
00:59:49right back
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01:00:53Vy's job this week
01:00:54was to wear all
01:00:55of the smart glasses
01:00:56and also all of
01:00:57the wearables
01:00:58which I think means
01:00:59like touching gross
01:01:00things more than
01:01:01most people
01:01:02who go to CES
01:01:03you've had a lot of
01:01:04like close encounters
01:01:05with gadgets that
01:01:06we don't recommend
01:01:07at this show
01:01:08thanks for reminding
01:01:09me David
01:01:10I actually hadn't
01:01:11thought about that
01:01:12so your job is
01:01:13putting stuff that's
01:01:14been on other
01:01:15people's face
01:01:16in your face
01:01:17how are you feeling?
01:01:18you know
01:01:19which violates
01:01:20privacy
01:01:21yeah you know
01:01:22which violates
01:01:23every rule of CES
01:01:26can we talk about
01:01:27smart glasses for a minute?
01:01:28yeah let's talk about
01:01:29smart glasses
01:01:30if there is like a
01:01:31device category
01:01:32that everybody was
01:01:33excited about this week
01:01:34I feel like it's
01:01:35smart glasses
01:01:36can I just read you
01:01:37the names of these
01:01:38companies that
01:01:39be typed
01:01:40and these are the
01:01:41ones that I was like
01:01:42okay in my inbox
01:01:43there's like at least
01:01:44500,000 smart glass
01:01:45pitches
01:01:46these are the ones
01:01:47that I selected
01:01:48as worthy of talking
01:01:49about
01:01:51that's spelled
01:01:52R-O-K-I-D
01:01:53Nuance
01:01:54Xreal
01:01:55everyone knows
01:01:56Nuance
01:01:57Vuzix
01:01:58Cameleo
01:01:59Camello
01:02:00even realities
01:02:01and then
01:02:02Halliday
01:02:03yeah
01:02:04these are just
01:02:05people are just
01:02:06coming up
01:02:07I'm pretty sure
01:02:08Halliday is a
01:02:09reference to
01:02:10Ready Player One
01:02:11right because
01:02:12Halliday and
01:02:13Ready Player One
01:02:14seems right
01:02:15but it's just like
01:02:16we're entering a
01:02:17new zone of
01:02:18companies
01:02:19and this stuff
01:02:20must have gotten
01:02:21a lot easier to
01:02:22make in the
01:02:23relatively
01:02:24phenomenally
01:02:25easier to make
01:02:26this is a thing
01:02:27that so I've been
01:02:28a smart glasses
01:02:29skeptic for a
01:02:30really long
01:02:31long time
01:02:32because they were
01:02:33just I mean we all
01:02:34know what happened
01:02:35with Google Glass
01:02:36right glass holes
01:02:37like and that's
01:02:38not really a thing
01:02:39but I think in the
01:02:40last two to three
01:02:41years the technology
01:02:42has miniaturized
01:02:43and basically
01:02:44expanded to a
01:02:45point where it's
01:02:46like oh crap
01:02:47this could actually
01:02:48happen and that's
01:02:49kind of what we're
01:02:50seeing on the floor
01:02:51so I think we've
01:02:52gotten to a point
01:02:53where everyone has
01:02:54agreed oh smart
01:02:55glasses they're a
01:02:56thing this is
01:02:57happening wait
01:02:58can we just put a
01:02:59little definition
01:03:00around smart glasses
01:03:01because it's pretty
01:03:02wide open right now
01:03:03so the meta
01:03:04Ray Bans I
01:03:05think meta will
01:03:06call smart glasses
01:03:07yes but they have
01:03:08no display component
01:03:09yes right that's a
01:03:10camera and
01:03:11there's like
01:03:12categories right
01:03:13voice assistant
01:03:14and I think
01:03:15meta is dramatically
01:03:16overselling
01:03:17those categories
01:03:18right
01:03:19and there's
01:03:20a lot of
01:03:21people
01:03:22that have
01:03:23them
01:03:24substantially
01:03:25more people
01:03:26than pay for
01:03:27the art
01:03:28store I
01:03:29want to be
01:03:30clear about
01:03:31that
01:03:32do you have
01:03:33them because
01:03:34they're a
01:03:35camera or
01:03:36because you're
01:03:37talking to
01:03:38meta AI
01:03:39all the time
01:03:40how many of
01:03:41you are
01:03:42talking to
01:03:43meta AI
01:03:44all the time
01:03:45on your Ray
01:03:46because it's really convenient to have a,
01:03:47yeah, that's a lot of hands.
01:03:48And so I think Meta is dramatically overselling
01:03:51the smart glass, the smartness of its smart glasses,
01:03:54because it's not a display.
01:03:56It's just a camera on some glasses that look okay.
01:03:59Sure.
01:03:59But all the ones that we're talking about at CS are displays.
01:04:02Right, that's the new category.
01:04:04Well, that's everybody, including Meta,
01:04:05agrees that's the next thing.
01:04:07Yeah, but like Meta is like, this is a surprise hit.
01:04:09Like smart glasses are the future.
01:04:11I'm like, weird little cameras are the future for you.
01:04:14Well, it's kind of both, it's kind of both.
01:04:17I just think Meta rolled out the AI in such a way
01:04:21that people just don't know how to use it properly.
01:04:23And if they say multimodal one more time,
01:04:26I'm going to lose it.
01:04:27That's just like where I'm at.
01:04:29But, you know, the interesting thing was like,
01:04:33let's talk about Rocket, right?
01:04:34So Rocket, it does everything that the Meta glasses do.
01:04:38They have a camera in it, but there is a display.
01:04:41And it's a pretty cool display,
01:04:43but it's a, I think what they call this type of display
01:04:46is a monocular monochrome display.
01:04:49Monocular monochrome display, I like that.
01:04:50Monocular monochrome display
01:04:52with micro etched displays in the lenses.
01:04:55So like you look at them,
01:04:56they look like a normal pair of glasses.
01:04:58They are much lighter than the Meta Ray Bans
01:05:00because weight, we've talked about this a lot.
01:05:02The weight is kind of a deal breaker sometimes
01:05:05when you're wearing them.
01:05:06So they're quite light.
01:05:08You can't actually see the display
01:05:09unless you like the light hits you in a certain way.
01:05:11It's etched into the actual glass.
01:05:14But when you look into it, you can see kind of like,
01:05:18like if you're thinking of a military fighter jet
01:05:20and that type of green laser looking display in there,
01:05:23you can see it.
01:05:24It's an actual display.
01:05:25And in the demo I got,
01:05:28the person was speaking to me in Chinese
01:05:31and I could see the translation happening in real time.
01:05:34Really?
01:05:34And then I could say something to her
01:05:36and she would answer me in Chinese.
01:05:37And there was no external commute?
01:05:39Was this going out to a cloud?
01:05:40Does this happen locally?
01:05:42Well, that was a hard question
01:05:44because again, she's speaking to me in Chinese.
01:05:47Well, I'm just wondering like,
01:05:48if you can do that locally
01:05:51on a pair of glasses with a reasonable battery life,
01:05:52that's cool.
01:05:53I mean, it is attached to your phone, right?
01:05:55Sure, okay.
01:05:56That's basically, we're still at the point
01:05:58where your phone is powering all of this
01:06:00and it's over Bluetooth.
01:06:01It's not like computing everything locally
01:06:03on that particular thing, but it's pretty wild.
01:06:06And as like journalists,
01:06:07you can have a teleprompter on there.
01:06:09You're wearing a pair of glasses.
01:06:10It does not look like you're seeing anything.
01:06:13And this kind of subsect of the monocular green laser thing,
01:06:18I saw three of them at which I was like,
01:06:20oh, that's a mini trend within a big trend.
01:06:23Cool, cool stuff.
01:06:24Right, there's a component here
01:06:26that everyone has decided they can use.
01:06:27And the reason why is because they have solved
01:06:29in a certain aspect, the ambient light problem.
01:06:33So the ambient light problem with smart glasses
01:06:35is that you walk out into the sun and you can't see shit
01:06:38because it's the sun.
01:06:40It like blinds everything out.
01:06:41So there's no point in a smart glass
01:06:43if you can't see the display
01:06:44that you paid a lot of money for.
01:06:46But with the green, it's easier on your eyeballs.
01:06:49So like green light is apparently
01:06:50the healthiest for your eye.
01:06:52It's the easiest to see
01:06:53and it borrows from military technology
01:06:55because the contrast is really great.
01:06:56I will say what you just said is alarmingly similar
01:06:59to how Humane described the projector on the pin
01:07:01and that didn't go super great.
01:07:03No, it didn't.
01:07:04But it's like a little different.
01:07:06Did Humane ever say they borrowed from military technology?
01:07:09No, but they were big on green lasers
01:07:10and how they were going to be used for sunlight.
01:07:12And then you go outside and it's like,
01:07:13what if it didn't work at all?
01:07:14But that's because it's outside in the sunlight.
01:07:15Like that's the, so like Halliday's solution to that.
01:07:18And I found Halliday to be the most finicky of the three
01:07:21with the smallest amount.
01:07:22Cause it's like this tiny little dot.
01:07:24It's held in like the bar of it.
01:07:27So like when you think about wearing smart glasses
01:07:29and where the display appears,
01:07:31it's actually like in the bar itself.
01:07:33So when you're talking to someone,
01:07:35they're just basically doing this the entire time,
01:07:37looking up into the corner.
01:07:39And so it looks like they're rolling your eyes at you
01:07:41the entire time.
01:07:43Well, so I'm curious about this
01:07:44cause you got to see them.
01:07:45Yeah.
01:07:46You know, earlier we were talking about like,
01:07:47is there a product at CES that everyone was talking about?
01:07:49And like the Halliday glasses are the closest to it.
01:07:52And then I think a lot of people got the demo
01:07:53and had that experience and it stopped being the thing
01:07:55that everyone was talking about.
01:07:56It's yeah, it seemed much more exciting
01:07:58at the beginning of the week
01:07:58than I think it turned out to be
01:07:59once people started trying it.
01:08:00So like, here's the thing, smart glasses, yeah.
01:08:02But you, the most annoying thing about XR, smart glasses,
01:08:06any of these things is that
01:08:07you have to see it to believe it.
01:08:09And you know, when we're thinking about making videos
01:08:12for these things and trying to like convey to people,
01:08:14like, oh, this is actually cool.
01:08:16Literally you're taking these glasses,
01:08:17you're taking your phone and you're like,
01:08:18if I angle the thing in the right way,
01:08:21I can get a really blurry half portion
01:08:23of the green laser that you're going to see.
01:08:25So it's really hard to convey to people that.
01:08:28And like the Halliday thing,
01:08:29I think they got in early at the show,
01:08:31which was like good for them.
01:08:32But like, you're literally like, I don't know.
01:08:37And it's not as discreet because when you talk to someone,
01:08:38you can see a green dot in their eye.
01:08:40Like just a green dot in their eye.
01:08:42And you're like, that's weird.
01:08:44That's my targeting laser for the robot.
01:08:45That's my target.
01:08:46I'm an Android robot with a green dot in my eye.
01:08:49So you talked about the demo, the translation.
01:08:51Like we've always talked about,
01:08:52there's a lot of problems between here
01:08:54and the dream of AR glasses, right?
01:08:57So you need a display, which it seems like
01:09:00some people are getting closer to one display solution
01:09:03that you can put on reasonably lightweight glasses.
01:09:06You need compute.
01:09:08And it sounds like we're offloading that to the phone.
01:09:10Then you need a battery that is not heavy,
01:09:15but provides enough battery life.
01:09:17You need a battery, the more advanced it is for sure.
01:09:19And then you like need stuff to do, right?
01:09:24Like you need to like augment reality.
01:09:25Like the goal is like, I say this all the time.
01:09:28If you can just make me a pair of glasses
01:09:30where you can just tell me your name,
01:09:32like I'll buy them in a heartbeat.
01:09:33The problem is you need to build like a worldwide
01:09:35facial recognition database.
01:09:35Just give me like a surveillance state
01:09:36and everything will be fine.
01:09:37And it's, you know, we're headed there anyway.
01:09:39So like, let's give me the glasses.
01:09:41But you need to like build all this other stuff.
01:09:43And it seems like the ones here,
01:09:44they're really focused on like display.
01:09:47So like what it is now, and what I've seen on the floor
01:09:50is that we have all agreed that smart glasses,
01:09:52we've agreed on smart glasses with all these companies.
01:09:55What we've not agreed on is how to do them.
01:09:58So what you have at CES is a bunch of people going,
01:10:01smart glasses, and now we're going to throw
01:10:03so much spaghetti on the wall and see what sticks.
01:10:06So they're trying to figure out,
01:10:08and like Google told me this when I went to see
01:10:10the Android XR demos of their smart glasses prototype
01:10:14is that you cannot approach it from one way.
01:10:17You have to approach it from all other ways.
01:10:18So the thing about Meta's glasses
01:10:22that kind of really kicked the door open
01:10:24is they got normal people thinking like,
01:10:26oh, I have a use for this.
01:10:27I'm going to take a, like for me,
01:10:29I'm going to take so many videos of my cats
01:10:31and they're not going to be freaked out
01:10:32because I have a phone in their face.
01:10:34And it sounds really stupid,
01:10:35but that actually is a thing
01:10:37that gets people going toward it.
01:10:39And then for some of these people, they're like,
01:10:40oh, you know what?
01:10:41Teleprompters.
01:10:42How many people would, if you have to speak on anything,
01:10:45how many of you would love to have a little teleprompter
01:10:47in front of your eyes that you can read
01:10:49that no one knows that you're reading?
01:10:51Like, it's great.
01:10:52You could have notes in something.
01:10:53Like you can travel to a different country
01:10:55and yeah, your phone's in your pocket,
01:10:56but you can talk to someone
01:10:57and understand what they're saying.
01:10:59Like, that's pretty cool if you think about that.
01:11:03So those are like real life use cases.
01:11:05So you have people approaching from the style first,
01:11:07like the Essilor Luxottica people.
01:11:09They're just like, you know, I saw them today.
01:11:11They were very Italian, very stylish.
01:11:13I felt like a schlub next to them,
01:11:15but they were like, we want things that people use.
01:11:17So the nuanced audio ones,
01:11:18they are over-the-counter hearing aids in a glasses format
01:11:21because it reduces stigma.
01:11:23It can still like noise cancel to a certain,
01:11:25is really cool.
01:11:26Because if I look at David and he's talking,
01:11:29it'll amplify his voice.
01:11:30But then if I turn away from him, it'll cancel him out.
01:11:34So like, that's just-
01:11:34That's the goal.
01:11:35That's a great idea.
01:11:36That's what you want.
01:11:37Yeah, so it's pretty cool.
01:11:38And it supports all prescriptions
01:11:40and it's like kind of geared towards the elderly
01:11:42who need glasses to see and can't hear.
01:11:45So that's like a real use case that they have.
01:11:47And then you have people on like the other end
01:11:50of the spectrum, like the Vuzixes and the Xreal
01:11:53and they're like, we are the future.
01:11:55You will be watching movies on your glasses
01:11:57and like everything will be seen
01:11:59and there'll be a little.
01:12:00So they had me like AI prompt a fat cat with unicorn wings
01:12:05that I could just like pinch to be large.
01:12:08And I'm like, sure, that's a thing.
01:12:09That's smart.
01:12:11That's a display.
01:12:12What they're saying is like,
01:12:13we can put a display in front of your eyes.
01:12:14We don't know what's going to be on there.
01:12:16Nuance has no display.
01:12:17That's just audio only.
01:12:18So like, I think in the transition,
01:12:21like Bose kind of kicked it off with the glasses
01:12:23with just making them audio.
01:12:25That's cool.
01:12:26Camello has no display.
01:12:27The cool thing about Camello,
01:12:29and this is the only cool thing,
01:12:30is that you slide, you press a button
01:12:32and it changes the color of the lens.
01:12:35And I'm like.
01:12:35That's why I thought it was called Camello.
01:12:37I just want to be very honest.
01:12:38Yeah.
01:12:39It probably should be.
01:12:40But you hear that on paper and you're like, that's stupid.
01:12:43Then you go into the thing and you're like,
01:12:44ooh, it changes colors.
01:12:46I'm so cool.
01:12:47Or like you have, you change the tint.
01:12:49So it's like, oh, it's really bright out.
01:12:51I need the tint to be full all the way.
01:12:53Or if you're like me and you're shady,
01:12:54you're like, oh, I don't like this person.
01:12:56I'm going to pull it all the way to dark
01:12:58so I can make eyes at them.
01:13:00I love the idea that you're wearing your glasses
01:13:02and just ruthlessly like sub-tweeting people.
01:13:04Oh, for sure.
01:13:05Like you're like, goodbye.
01:13:07Goodbye.
01:13:07When you like turn your head,
01:13:08you're like, I can't hear you anymore.
01:13:09I can't.
01:13:10It's like, oh, yay.
01:13:11It does seem like all of this.
01:13:15Right.
01:13:16There's some part of it that's like,
01:13:17I think really fun, right?
01:13:17This is all very innovative.
01:13:18We're all going to try a bunch of stuff,
01:13:19but it also feels like,
01:13:21well, we can't make a watch, right?
01:13:24Like no one's going to buy a smartwatch
01:13:25that isn't an Apple or a Google
01:13:27or a Samsung ecosystem device.
01:13:29So we're going to mount a computer to your face.
01:13:33Here's a bunch of face stuff.
01:13:34I mean, the number one problem with the face stuff
01:13:37is that we are so vain as a species.
01:13:40Like kids cry when they find out
01:13:42they have to wear glasses because,
01:13:43oh my God, they have to wear glasses.
01:13:44If you're David, who teamly tells me his 2020 vision.
01:13:48Thanks, David.
01:13:49People say I have the best vision.
01:13:50A lot of people say that.
01:13:51A lot of people say that.
01:13:52A lot of people say that.
01:13:53Why would you wear glasses, right?
01:13:55Unless there's a function for it.
01:13:56I would like people to know that I don't need glasses.
01:13:59Yeah.
01:14:00Like I want the opposite of glasses.
01:14:01Right.
01:14:02But if you're like me and you're basically a blind bat,
01:14:04and if you look at my phone, the text is so large,
01:14:08you know, you're used to wearing glasses.
01:14:10And so then it becomes more functional
01:14:11because it's something you're already wearing.
01:14:13But that's a huge problem.
01:14:15Prescriptions are a huge problem.
01:14:16If you're blind, like, I mean,
01:14:17negative nine, negative eight, huge astigmatism.
01:14:21Some of these glasses can't support my actual thing.
01:14:23So then it's like, eh, you know,
01:14:25and everyone's face is different.
01:14:26Everyone's aesthetic is different.
01:14:28Mass producing these things.
01:14:29There's so many different challenges towards smart glasses.
01:14:32So it's not like we're all gonna be wearing these tomorrow,
01:14:36but I do think they've decided for whatever reason,
01:14:38yes, this is possible.
01:14:40Throw everything at the wall.
01:14:42See what sticks.
01:14:43See what is the way forward.
01:14:45And they all believe that it will converge at this point
01:14:48where we have computers on our faces.
01:14:50If we get there-
01:14:51I mean, that's the CES story right there.
01:14:52That's the CES story.
01:14:53Like, just pick a thing that maybe will happen in a decade
01:14:55and let's try some weird stuff about it.
01:14:56Yeah, basically.
01:14:57I love that.
01:14:58I will remind you, of course, of my chart of whale bullshit.
01:15:01Do you know about the chart?
01:15:02Two axes.
01:15:03One is utility and one is fiddliness.
01:15:05And you need to have vastly more utility
01:15:07than fiddliness or you're a failure.
01:15:08And face is like a minus 500.
01:15:12I propose-
01:15:13If you put something on your face, it has to be so useful.
01:15:15It does.
01:15:16I also propose that we actually visualize this graph.
01:15:19And every single time I do a wearable review,
01:15:20we have the graph in here.
01:15:22We can do this.
01:15:23AI can do this for us.
01:15:24AI can do this for us.
01:15:24And so-
01:15:25It will be lies.
01:15:26It will not be accurate.
01:15:27When I take briefings, I can go,
01:15:28okay, here's the Verge-approved graph.
01:15:31Please point to where on this graph your product is.
01:15:34That would make my life so much easier.
01:15:35I'm just saying.
01:15:36I'm correct about this.
01:15:37I think Joanna stole this in the journal recently,
01:15:39so now we have to take it back.
01:15:40It's putting it out there.
01:15:41Okay, last thing I want to talk to you about, Vian.
01:15:43We have to quit.
01:15:44We've gone way over.
01:15:45We need to let these poor people go.
01:15:46Okay.
01:15:47Yeah.
01:15:48And we'll hang out after, but let's end the podcast
01:15:50and go hang out with these nice people.
01:15:51I just wanted to talk about Marumi for one second.
01:15:53No, you can't.
01:15:54It's not allowed.
01:15:55There's a weird robot that just hugs you.
01:15:56It's like a hugging robot.
01:15:58Go find the hugging robot.
01:16:00Go find the huggy robot.
01:16:01All right.
01:16:02There's the title of the episode.
01:16:03Thank you all for joining us.
01:16:03We have gone way over.
01:16:04It's wonderful to be here with you.
01:16:06Thank you to Delta for bringing us Brooklyn Bowl,
01:16:08which is amazing.
01:16:09Just looking at my giant face next to our logos
01:16:11on bowling alley screens this whole time
01:16:12has been delightful for me.
01:16:14My ego is very healthy.
01:16:15I appreciate all of you.
01:16:16Frame TV owners, we can get a drink in a corner
01:16:19and really work through it.
01:16:20That's it.
01:16:21That's VirgCast Rock and Roll.
01:16:25And that's it for the VirgCast this week.
01:16:27Hey, we'd love to hear from you.
01:16:29Give us a call at 866-VIRG11.
01:16:32The VirgCast is a production of The Verge
01:16:33and Vox Media Podcast Network.
01:16:35Our show is produced by Liam James,
01:16:37Will Poore, and Eric Gomez.
01:16:39And that's it.
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