Learn to dismiss the mind || Acharya Prashant, on Chandogya Upanishad (2022)

Acharya Prashant

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Transcript

00:00Chandogya Upanishad, 3.15.1, there is a Kosh, a chest, a Kosh, which has the sky as its

00:28circumference and the earth as its bottom.

00:35This Kosh, this chest, this wide space, it does not decay.

00:45The quarters are its sides and the heaven is its lid above.

00:57This chest is a container of treasures and in it rests the entire universe, a very poetic

01:14expression of the truth.

01:21There is a vast chest containing treasures, first of all it contains treasures, secondly

01:31it is infinite.

01:34The earth is the bottom, the quarters are the sides and the heavens, rather the skies

01:43are the circumference and the heaven is the lid.

01:49Do you see the picturization?

01:56It is the work of a poet trying to conceive a particular vastness containing the richness

02:12of everything.

02:13They are using all symbols of infinitude to communicate what they want to say.

02:23They are saying something so vast that only the vastness of the earth can serve as its

02:32bottom, something so vast that only the skies can serve as the circumference, something

02:39so vast and so sublime that the heavens are at the absolute top serving as the lid.

02:55They are referring to the infinitude of the truth and they are using material symbols

03:06because all symbols have to be material.

03:10It's just that what they symbolize is beyond the material, what they point at is not material.

03:26The truth contains everything, the highest that you can think of, the lowest you can

03:40think of, all the beauties, all the ugliness, it's within it.

03:53The mind of the sage is continuously sensing a reality beyond appearances, a reality beyond

04:04limits.

04:09There is a constant realization that all the diversities share commonalities and there

04:27is something beyond the diversities that contains all the diversities.

04:38This feeling is being given a poetic manifestation in this particular verse.

05:00What matters here is the sense that there is something definitely beyond, that that

05:17which is perceivable, all that which can be experienced between the earth and the sky

05:30is of little importance compared to that.

05:35You see size is the metric here, size refers to importance as well.

05:46So, there is a wide chest of great size implying great importance, there is a wide chest of

05:56great size containing all the treasures and nothing is beyond it in the sense there is

06:05nothing more important than it.

06:11The sages here, the poetic sages here do not want to leave you with words, they want to

06:20leave you with realization.

06:23There is not much point in memorizing their words, their words have been crafted to leave

06:31a certain impact, you must be available to that impact, are you getting it?

06:41The impact is of beyondness, of greatness.

06:50The sages want to stun you by revealing something to you that is beyond description, comprehension

07:03and experience, all experiences of the little and that's exactly what they want to stun

07:10you for, to take you beyond the little.

07:15The mind operates in its regular patterns and all patterns relate to something small.

07:23The attempt here is to give the mind something so immense, so beautiful that it is shocked

07:40and comes to a pause, in that pause is realization.

07:49Always the inner machine continues in its usual ways, thinking that it is all that

07:59there is to life.

08:06The inner movement has to pause for a while, if the inner movement has to pause then something

08:22extraordinary must come to the mind, here an extraordinary image is being presented.

08:35Mind can never come to terms with this image, because nothing like what has been so vividly

08:43depicted here really tangibly exists, so the mind can never reconcile itself with what

08:52this verse says.

08:56The mind and this verse cannot co-exist and if there is faith then the mind won't dismiss

09:05this verse, what's the only option that remains then, the mind has to then dismiss itself.

09:15You have given the mind something it cannot co-exist with and the thing you have given

09:23to the mind, the mind cannot dismiss it either, if there is faith.

09:32So then there is just one option, the mind has to dismiss itself and that exactly is

09:40the intent.

09:46Dismiss yourself.

10:10You exist by remaining fully absorbed in things, when a thing beyond things comes to you then

10:30you cannot exist anymore, dismiss yourself, else you will miss out on the thing beyond

10:40things and that would be such a shame, because the little things anyway do not suffice.

10:56For their sake, why miss out on the immense?

11:03Yes, your observations please.

11:13You mentioned that the mind must dismiss itself, that exactly is the intent, when you

11:28are provided with beautiful examples and immensity of something beyond, then the intent is that

11:35mind must dismiss itself, when I am in the session and when I am listening to this, then

11:43I immediately realize that mind is coming to rest.

11:49But when we engage in our everyday activities, this thing that mind must dismiss itself,

11:56this becomes a little difficult.

11:58Here when we are with the Upanishads, when we are with your words, then this thing becomes

12:05easier.

12:06I would like to ask, how should this process be carried out, that mind keeping on dismissing

12:13itself whenever it arises, one thing is to…

12:18For the mind to dismiss itself continuously, the beyond must remain important continuously.

12:28If there are gaps, the mind will resurface and revitalize, don't give yourself gaps.

12:48I have a question Acharya ji, when we are engaged in our day to day work, so it happens

12:58that when we are not with the verses, when we are not with the scriptures, then it is

13:04difficult to remember that there is something beyond, so what I practically want to say

13:12The real you must always be in the session, there is a part of you in the foreground,

13:27in the forefront, it remains engaged in day to day activities and there is a part of you

13:38behind the foreground, it must always be in the session.

13:47If a part of you is not always busy with the real thing, and that part of you I am calling

13:54the real you, if the real you is not always busy with the real thing, then there is no chance.

14:07You have to learn to manage these two together, and when these two are together for a while,

14:21then the more important one of them naturally begins to command and nurture and guide the

14:31other, which two?

14:36Your day to day work and your real work, these two must always coexist, always, you cannot

14:47just say I am doing one thing, you must always be doing two things, and if you can learn

14:57to do these two things, then the real thing will take over the other thing, and these

15:08two will themselves become one, but to begin with, learn to have this tight rope walk,

15:24two things together, you are fooling around in the public, that's the thing in the foreground,

15:34in the background you are in the session, you are doing something related to technology,

15:44that's in the foreground, in the background you are in the session, that constant remembrance

15:52must never be lost, and if you can let that remain, then that will become your guiding

16:00light, that will start telling you what is right to do even in the foreground, then you

16:08will not go wrong in life, because then all your actions and decisions will come from

16:16the right place, from the real you.

16:25And naturally this thing has helped that whenever I am in the session and after the session,

16:29I try to remember the time when I was in the session, and so that's what you were saying

16:37that a part of you must be in the session, so you must do two things, that other thing

16:44for me is to remember the session, the teachings, the notes and to be with it, so that is what

16:52I have for myself.

16:54You have to learn to give importance to the thing in the background, and knowing yourself

17:00do all that you can do to remind yourself of the importance.

17:08If something is important, assuming something is important, whenever something is important,

17:14how do you behave with it?

17:18Similarly learn to behave with the real thing, it is not just that behavior follows importance,

17:29if you want to remember importance, then behave accordingly first, when you already

17:38remember, then your behavior will come from the importance that you remember, but if you

17:49are someone who frequently forgets, then keep behaving rightly and the remembrance

17:59of importance will come from the right behavior, develop that into a habit, behave with the

18:14right thing according to its importance, it will become a habit, and every instance

18:22of the right behavior will remind you of the importance, every instance of misplaced behavior

18:32tells you of lowered importance, and if the importance is low, why is it worthy of remembering?

18:42To remember it you have to display the right behavior towards it, right, when something

18:53is important you behave in a certain way towards it, and if you can learn and make it a habit

19:03to behave in a certain way, then that helps in remembering its importance, by no way am

19:11I suggesting that behavior alone is enough, I am just saying that just as everything can

19:19be used as a tool towards the right purpose, your habits and your behavioral patterns too

19:26must be used as tools, for example if you are to walk into this hall, irrespective of

19:39whether or not the session is in progress, can you make it a habit to walk in a particular

19:47way, that helps you constantly remember the importance of something, that's the reason

20:02rituals exist, that is the right and fundamental reason, it's just that over centuries people

20:11forget the reason and rituals become hollow and corrupted.

20:26In the session you display a certain behavior, so the session has become linked with the

20:33behavior, can you display the same behavior even when the session is not on, and if you

20:40can display the same behavior then the session is on for you, so behavior then becomes the

20:47key, again I am not suggesting that mere behavior will suffice, that's a dangerous suggestion,

20:58I am saying right behavior can assist and you do require all kinds of assistance, don't you?

21:21The attitude that you will have towards this hall when the session is not in progress will

21:30determine the depth of your learning in this hall when the session is in progress, so just

21:41as you are mindful when the session is on, probably you need to be doubly mindful when

21:47the session is not on, live as if you are always in attendance and behave accordingly,

22:03now you know why they told people that God is always watching you, live every moment

22:12at every place as if you are being watched, as if you are being watched, tell yourself

22:28He is watching, what will He say?

22:33It is important to ask this question because often our own inner judge is not fully developed,

22:41if your inner judge is well developed then you do not need to ask what will He say, your

22:47own judge is sufficient, but your own judge is still immature and vulnerable to corruption,

22:55you bribe your own inner judge, don't you?

22:58You feed him a burger and he can be fogged off, so don't then rely just on yourself,

23:12believe that God is always watching you, now obviously Vedanta does not support the notion

23:19of God, I am not talking of God so much, I am talking of watchfulness really, behave

23:31in watchfulness.

23:45If I may ask this Acharyaji, so for me this is the case that in my mind there are two

23:56images of Acharyaji, one who is in the session and second is since I live in the hostel,

24:04so I come in contact with you again and again, so when I am in the session it is easy for

24:10me to behave in a certain way, but when I am out of the session I try to remember that

24:14again and again that image of Acharyaji from the session and try to behave well, but something

24:22when I slip then what I have introspected is I forget the image of the Guru.

24:35This second image will kill you, the second image is the most unfortunate thing, in fact

24:45to a great extent it is the responsibility of the teacher to not to even let the second

24:50image develop, teachers have traditionally done that by maintaining a certain distance

24:56from the students, so that the second image, the personal image does not develop and the

25:04student sees the teacher only in the session, because the second image will kill you, it

25:10will not allow you to learn anything from the first, if that means that a distance is

25:18necessary, maintain that distance.

25:25Acharyaji, the dismiss the mind thing looks obvious when the mind has got suffering because

25:40of itself, but when it is getting success or when it is in a very good situation, so

25:50it does not even occur and also if it occurs then it occurs in the reference of the past

25:59suffering that it has gone through because of its own going through, how this dismiss

26:06the mind thing can be remembered even while it is in a forgetful state.

26:16Obviously it is not easy, we all agree.

26:23You need an environment that reminds you continuously and you need an inner watchfulness that tells

26:33you constantly of the risk if you forget, if you can see what even an hour of forgetfulness

26:45can do to you, that will keep you on your toes, equally you need situations and people

27:01outside of you who value watchfulness, but even if these two assisting factors are present,

27:17it is still not going to be easy, we never say it is easy.

27:23Acharyaji, I have a question, in the verse you had mentioned that you have given the

27:39mind something it can't coexist with, it can't come to terms with it, but it can't dismiss

27:44it either, so the mind has to dismiss itself, I am not clear on the part where it says it

27:51can't come to terms with it, but it can't dismiss it either, why can't this explanation

27:57or description be dismissed, for example if we are…

28:01I said that, I said that very clearly, I said it requires faith, therefore these verses

28:09are only for those who have faith, otherwise the mind will eagerly, immediately dismiss

28:17the verses.

28:22A very important discipline is to take away a few rights from yourself, the right for

28:32example to dismiss the verse, the book or the teacher has to be voluntarily dropped,

28:44you have to voluntarily say I deprive myself of the right to dismiss the scriptures, come

28:54what may, this is something I just cannot do, even at the cost of my life, I will continue

29:05to respect the verses, and this has to be unconditional.

29:16If that kind of faith is not there, that is the reason why Shraddha is an important part

29:23of Sadhan Chaturstha, unless you have Shraddha, the scriptures are not for you, the mind will

29:31remain very keen to quickly and summarily dismiss the verses.

29:43That option has to be closed.

29:55What can be an external force that ensures that we don't dismiss it, because what the

30:02faith…

30:03You don't need an external force so much, you need a lot of exposure to the verses,

30:10you have to repeatedly see that whether you understand or not the verses point to the

30:17truth, that way you will be internally convinced that you cannot dismiss them, we are not talking

30:24of blind belief here, we are saying you should have been with the verses for so long, enquired

30:33with them and into them with such rigor that it becomes impossible for you to say at any

30:46point well the verses don't contain the truth, your inner honesty and integrity should make

30:56it impossible for you to reject the verses because you have known for yourself on your

31:03own that the verses do point to the truth, and because you have known so you just cannot

31:14dismiss them.

31:20So this faith will also come as we become more familiar with the verses, so initially

31:25it will be probably by chance.

31:30Initially it is just grace, initially it is just grace, or you could say that there is

31:39nothing called initially, you all are on a journey and everybody is at some point in

31:47the journey, nobody is at any initial point, because there is no initial point.

31:55When you say there is no initial point, it means everyone comes to the scriptures because

32:07of some reason.

32:09A certain preparedness is there in everybody, nobody initiates himself from zero, we all

32:24are standing at a certain place and any place can suffice to enter into an enquiry with

32:35the verses.

32:42It depends on your choice, how soon do you want to begin it.

32:51In general when I see such a description of the absolute or Brahm, which is, it's essentially

33:02contradictory and it plays with the mind.

33:06So I try to think what is so special about this particular description, because had there

33:12been anything special about this description, the description would have stopped at this one.

33:19You see, hundreds of description come after the other, because no description suffices.

33:28The sages are just hoping that one or more of these descriptions, their attempts will

33:37hit the jackpot, a Chandogya Upanishad in particular is full of such poetic imageries.

33:48Is it just that it is a challenge to the mind, the idea is?

33:56That's what the idea is, to challenge the mind.

34:00But then there are a lot of worldly things also which challenge the mind.

34:05The worldly things that challenge the mind, all have solutions within the worldly domain.

34:14A good maths question can challenge the mind, but its answer is very much within the mind.

34:20The mind doesn't have to violate its boundaries to solve a problem in mathematics.

34:29See there is knowledge, there is ignorance.

34:33What you call as a problem in science or worldly affairs, is the problem of worldly ignorance.

34:43There is the field where you say you know, you know worldly things, there is the field

34:50of worldly things you do not know of, but these two fields are much the same.

34:58They are both available to the mind, it's a matter of time.

35:04Something is already within your knowledge, something will sooner than later come within

35:09your knowledge, also irrespective of whether it will come within your knowledge, it will

35:16not change your centre, you will remain who you are, fundamentally.

35:23So acquiring more worldly knowledge to solve a problem in maths does not fundamentally

35:28change you, the mind remains rooted in itself.

35:34Then there is a third possibility of the unknowable.

35:41You could say the first thing where you have knowledge is the domain of the known.

35:47The second domain where there is ignorance, worldly ignorance is the domain of the unknown.

35:53This verse is pointing at something beyond both of these, it is pointing at the unknowable.

36:00Unknowable to whom?

36:01To the mind.

36:02Now this is where the mind starts shivering, because it has been declared that there is

36:09something that not only you do not know of, you cannot even potentially know of it.

36:16Remaining who you are, the unknowable is totally beyond you.

36:21Now the mind is troubled and that is the intention, to trouble the mind, to jerk it away from

36:29its unfortunate place.

36:31Pranam Acharya ji, can you hear me?

36:37Yes Rajdeep.

36:39So this verse which I was reading, I can clearly see the same ideas, here it says everything

36:46lies in that, that immensity.

36:49So I could...

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