The Sunderland Echo's football writers discuss the Alexandre Mendy transfer latest.
Plus Spain tour reflections under Régis Le Bris.
Plus Spain tour reflections under Régis Le Bris.
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00:00I think it's positive that the club have actually noted and are actively trying to sort that experience goal scoring strike issue out.
00:08An interesting goal because in some ways not a huge surprise because the one thing we've known about him here since day one is that he can finish.
00:15Hello and welcome to the Raw podcast brought to you by the Sunderland Echo.
00:34My name's Joe Nicholson and I'm joined by my fellow Sunderland writers at the Echo, Phil Smith and James Copley.
00:41There's plenty to talk about as well, obviously Sunderland played two games over in Spain, two friendly matches.
00:47They drew 1-1 with Nottingham Forest on what shall we say was probably a stronger starting XI.
00:53And then a different side beat Spanish team Aldenza 2-1 with Tom Watson and Hamir scoring the goal.
01:00So we'll start with you, Phil. And last summer, Sunderland went away to America.
01:04The trip seems quite hectic at times. Tony Mowbray suggested that maybe they didn't face the right quality of opposition in terms of level of what the sides were playing at.
01:16So do you think from this trip in Spain that the team and the squad got what they were looking for in terms of minutes, in terms of the quality of the opposition?
01:25Yeah, it's a little bit difficult to compare it to last summer because obviously we weren't out in America.
01:30So you don't really have that sort of first-hand experience.
01:32But what I would say is like, I think even just from watching the games on a stream last year and being there for the games this year,
01:39it was a much, much bigger challenge, both physically and technically, I would say.
01:43If you remember back to those games in America, I mean, Sunderland were just completely dominating the ball, weren't they really?
01:48And it was kind of, I would go as far as to say probably a bit more like a training exercise, really.
01:53Whereas these two games were really, really challenging for different reasons.
01:57Obviously, Forest, a lot of technical quality dominated the ball.
02:01Sunderland had to work really hard off the ball.
02:03And especially in that, you know, in that heat, it shouldn't be underestimated either.
02:07They were basically chasing Premier League players around for 90 minutes.
02:11And then the Al Dente game was actually, I don't know what it came across like on a stream or whatever,
02:16but it was quite a decent watch in the ground because Al Dente obviously really acclimatised the conditions,
02:23really acclimatised the heat and they had some decent technical quality.
02:26But that pressing was like really, really intense all the way through the game.
02:29And that was a really good exercise, especially for a sort of a heavily rotated team that isn't used to playing together.
02:35You know, so there wasn't a huge amount of time on the ball and it was a good challenge, I think.
02:39So my feeling is definitely they probably got more out of this trip than they did last year.
02:43I think the quality of opponent was much, much more appropriate, if you like.
02:48And then they've obviously got now that build in the start of the season with Blackpool, Bradford
02:52and then a really tough game they finished against Marseille.
02:54So it does maybe feel like a few lessons have been learned from that.
02:58And certainly I do think there was two really good games, both physically and in terms of the quality of the opponent, yeah.
03:05What do you think we found out about the way that Reggie LaBrie wants to play and his kind of style of football?
03:12Can we read much into these two games?
03:16Well, yeah, we can definitely, but there were two quite different approaches, I would have said, actually in both games.
03:22And we kind of saw the two different aspects of his philosophy.
03:26There wasn't a huge amount of hard pressing against Nottingham Forest,
03:29although the goal obviously came from the end, they did really well to steal the ball back off the centre half.
03:33But that game, Sunderland kind of sat off a little bit, which I guess makes sense because you don't want to leave space for like Gibbs White and players like that.
03:40But what was really noticeable in that game is they were trying to play out from the back pretty much the whole game where they could.
03:45And they actually did it fairly successfully.
03:47Alden's was really different in that they pressed incredibly aggressively.
03:51So actually, when Alden's went to take a goal kick, you had Archie basically playing as a second striker.
03:56It looked like a really flat 4-4-2.
03:58And then you had all four midfielders, including Emberton and Brown.
04:01There was no sitting midfielder.
04:02All four of them were pushed up right on the edge of the box, marking man for man.
04:06Incredibly risky, but obviously high reward.
04:09Speaking to both the players and Lebris after that game, they were sort of saying that's definitely a clue of what we want to try and do.
04:16Try and put those bits together, playing out from the back, pressing really aggressively.
04:19But also making the point that in pre-season you can be a bit braver because if it goes wrong, it doesn't matter.
04:24So they were kind of saying you might not see it to this extreme during the season because we might have to adjust a little bit and be a bit more cautious.
04:30But definitely those are the key indications.
04:33And I think the one thing that's really clear is, you may tweet it as we go along, but Lebris spoke to me in his first press conference.
04:38He told me about a 4-3-3 in possession, a 4-4-2 out of possession.
04:42Well, that was incredibly clear from day one.
04:45And that's continued through these games.
04:47So it does feel like there's a real template for the start of the season, which may adjust as we go.
04:52But I think we can definitely see Lebris' footprint, if you like, all over this team already.
04:59It was interesting, James, as I said before, that the team that started against Forest,
05:03you probably possibly wouldn't be surprised if that was the team that started against Cardiff on the opening day of the season.
05:08We know that Dan Ballard's going to miss the start of the season with an injury.
05:12But the side that started against Forest was Paterson, Hulme, O'Neill, Alise, Sirkin, Neal, Rigg, Roberts, Bellingham, Clark and Maienda.
05:21Now, obviously, Brown played in the second game and is playing a little bit of catch-up because he only came a couple of weeks ago
05:27and maybe hasn't had as much time on the training pitch as the others have.
05:30But looking at that side that started against Forest, would you say that that is possibly Sunderland's strongest start in XI as things stand?
05:37And would there be any kind of changes maybe you'd make to that?
05:40I think so. It obviously depends on the transfer market as well.
05:44I think Maienda's looked relatively impressive.
05:46I would say that he's slightly ahead of Roosan in the way he's performed so far, although I have enjoyed Roosan as well.
05:54He should have maybe had a couple of goals, Roosan, in the two games.
05:58But obviously, Alexander Mendy possibly coming in.
06:01Depending on when he comes, if he comes or if somebody else comes with him, you could see them start up front.
06:07I think the Rigg-Alan Brown one's really interesting because I think Chris Rigg's been hugely impressive during pre-season already.
06:14I think his intensity has been right up there with some of Sunderland's best performers.
06:19He's really got the bit between his teeth.
06:21Obviously, Alan Brown's a little bit behind the rest of the group since joining from Preston North End this summer.
06:27So I think when it comes to the opening day of the season, it'll be interesting whether Lebris wants that experience in the midfield
06:35and he opts for Brown over Rigg or whether he goes on a meritocracy and Rigg gets the nod.
06:41And obviously, so much depends on what happens in these upcoming three pre-season games domestically as well against Bradford, Blackpool and Marseille.
06:49You could pick up injuries, but I would say that start 11 that started against Nottingham Forest is probably the strongest team that we've seen.
06:58And I think they're the best performing players, certainly, as things stand.
07:02But obviously, that can change a little bit, a little way to go in the summer.
07:06But I think the Rigg-Alan Brown question's really interesting.
07:10I'm intrigued to see how that develops because Rigg has done absolutely nothing wrong and has been very, very, very good this pre-season.
07:19Yeah, I'd say the two probably main question marks about who could start is probably the Rigg-Alan Brown one, as you said,
07:24and then the upfront Mayenda, or could he go with Rootin, could he even go with Hamir after that goal the other night,
07:30which was an excellent goal if people haven't seen it.
07:34But would you agree with that, Phil?
07:35Do you think that's probably on paper at the minute Sunderland's strongest starting 11 going into a couple of weeks out from the season?
07:43Pretty much, yeah.
07:44And I think, as James sort of alluded to there, a lot of that shouldn't necessarily be taken as a reflection of the individual player's ability.
07:50A lot of it's due to where they are with their fitness, isn't it?
07:53I think it's obvious that a Dan Neil, for example, at the moment will look a bit sharper than an Elliot Embleton,
07:59who's basically been injured for 18 months and has played three games of football now and yet to play 90 minutes.
08:05So I think it's fairly obvious that these guys are going to need a little bit of a longer run at it.
08:09At a certain point, I expect a couple of those players in that category to go out on low.
08:13And I think it's just obvious that if they're not going to play regularly here, they need to go and do it somewhere else.
08:18So we'll kind of see how that develops.
08:20But yeah, I think the core of that team is pretty much in place.
08:24I think that's fair.
08:25And also, I think one of the things we've noticed from talking to people around the club pretty much since the end of last season is that on the playing side,
08:32there's definitely a desire, I think, for some continuity this season.
08:36I think they feel, although it sounds strange when the team finished 16th last year,
08:41I think they feel like the core of the team is a really strong one and they don't want to do too much to it.
08:45They want to add a little bit of quality rather than a significant turnover.
08:49And I think that's a reflection of that.
08:50That, yeah, we can probably feel like we can name eight or nine of those players who are going to start the season as we sit here right now.
08:58Obviously, things can change quickly with injuries and what have you.
09:01I think there's probably for me, I know you've spoken about and there's probably three positions, I think.
09:05Although I think Elise is very likely to start alongside 09.
09:09I think Yelda and Joanne Lisson both did really well on the tour and I think that should be remarked upon.
09:14I'm not necessarily saying they'll start, but I think they've given themselves a chance to keep pushing because both looked really good.
09:20As you mentioned, that midfield position is definitely up for grabs.
09:24Alan Brown's a bit behind on his fitness, but he looked brilliant at the start of the Al Dente's game.
09:28Physical, winning his duels.
09:29I think what was really noticeable about him as well was how comfortable he was coming and taking the ball off the defenders.
09:35Even though Al Dente were playing with a high press and it was quite a high-pressure sort of scenario, he handled the ball really, really well.
09:41Tired of it, as you would expect, because he hasn't played for ages and it was like 40 degrees heat.
09:46But I thought he looked really impressive.
09:47Solo at the moment, I would put Rigg in there, given how well he's doing.
09:50I do think Brown might have something to say about that.
09:53Also, wore the captain's armband on his debut, which I think also is quite revealing as well.
09:57Obviously, the upfront one is the real conundrum.
09:59Will Sunderland sign someone before the start of the season?
10:01We hope so.
10:03Meende, I was impressed with against Nottingham Forest, but didn't really have many chances.
10:08Roosen did okay at times.
10:11Thought he did well when he came on against Forest.
10:14Didn't look so great against Al Dente until he moved out left.
10:17And then, obviously, Hemiya.
10:19I mean, what an enigma, really.
10:21An interesting goal because, in some ways, not a huge surprise.
10:26Because the one thing we've known about Hemiya since day one is that he can finish.
10:30He did it in pre-season last year, albeit not as spectacular as that.
10:33And you speak to anyone at the club, staff, players, whatever, he does that in training.
10:38His finishing is really good.
10:39It's just that the rest of his game isn't quite there yet to create the environment
10:43where he can have those chances and make those chances for himself.
10:46So, I'll be honest, I don't really have the answer for that one as to how they crack it.
10:51At the moment, I still feel like it's very unlikely that he starts the championship season up front.
10:55But, who knows, maybe that goal can be a catalyst for him.
10:58I guess we'll see.
11:00Yeah, my thoughts with Hemiya coming into this summer was probably that he would be the one going out on loan.
11:05I think we were all quite surprised in January when it was Meyenda that went out on loan rather than Hemiya.
11:11I think Meyenda, certainly, last season showed a little bit more than Hemiya.
11:14When he came in, it looked like he could maybe make more of an impact.
11:17I think Tony Mowbray rated him quite highly, Meyenda as well.
11:20Whereas, Hemiya, I think he struggled to make an impact at championship level.
11:24So, I thought he'd be the one that went out on loan in January.
11:27But it was Meyenda.
11:28And now, obviously, they've got the kind of same dilemma with both of them.
11:31Two young strikers that they've invested money in.
11:34But, are they ready to start games in the championship?
11:37Especially if Sunderland are bringing someone in.
11:40This striker issue has been ongoing for some time.
11:42Sunderland fans have been aware for some time.
11:45At some point, they might just have to twist the parameters a little bit to get that one over the line.
11:51And it'll be interesting to see whether they're prepared to do that this window.
11:54Whether they're prepared to do that for Mendy.
11:59Where do you think are the main areas still that Sunderland do need strength?
12:07Obviously, there's the striker dilemma at the minute that Sunderland are looking to bring someone in up front.
12:12But, where are the kind of other areas that you think maybe that they lack depth?
12:16And where the squad does need addressing this summer?
12:19I think, yeah, the striker one's an obvious one.
12:21Hopefully, that's sort of resolved in the coming weeks.
12:27It's interesting with Alan Brown, isn't it?
12:29Phil was mentioning that he played really deep in the second game.
12:33And he was happy to come and get the ball off the defence.
12:36And that's very true.
12:37And I found that very interesting.
12:38Because, from what we've heard from him in his interview with Phil, he'll play anywhere.
12:42He'll play all over.
12:43But, traditionally, during his career, he's been sort of box to box.
12:47Perhaps a little bit more attacking.
12:49So, I find it interesting, as he enters the last maybe six, seven years of his career,
12:55is he coming to Sunderland to play that No. 6 role?
12:58If he is, then you would suggest that that No. 6 position is boxed off.
13:02We've talked about on this podcast quite a lot, and Phil's pointed out, that Sunderland don't really play with a No. 6.
13:08But, if Brown is going to play further forward eventually, if he is going to be more box to box,
13:12then is it worth having a Corey Evans-type player?
13:16But, if Alan Brown's going to be that man or cover that position, then perhaps you don't need to recruit there.
13:23So, I do find that interesting.
13:25And I think, really, it depends on outgoings as well.
13:28Phil mentioned there, there's a fair few players that could go out on loan.
13:32Joe Anderson's impressed, but does his future lie at Sunderland?
13:35If he went, do you need a little bit more cover and defence?
13:38Because, obviously, he can cover left-back and centre-back.
13:41On the wings as well, if Jack Clarke was to go, do you replace him directly?
13:45Or do you put your faith in Romain Mundell, Jefferson Bennett or Tommy Watson?
13:49Or would one of those players go out on loan as well?
13:52It's really tough.
13:53And then you look at the midfield.
13:55I'm a massive Elliot Embleton fan, and it's worth noting that he is just coming back from two serious injuries.
14:01He hasn't played 90 minutes.
14:02He's only on his third game back.
14:04But, if he was to go out on loan alongside Jamie Tetty, you'd likely need some cover there as well.
14:09So, so much depends on who leaves.
14:12But, what I will say about some of the players that I've mentioned, there is mitigation.
14:16I think Elliot Embleton, as I mentioned, being out for so long, Jamie Tetty's had his injury issues.
14:21Jefferson Bennett played left-back against Al Dente.
14:24He's coming back from an injury as well.
14:27So, whilst I think we've seen a very strong Sunderland XI and then a slightly weaker Sunderland XI,
14:33there is mitigation for that.
14:35A lot of those players are getting back up to speed, playing in unfamiliar positions, in a sort of unfamiliar team as well.
14:42You know, that sort of second-string team hasn't played together a lot.
14:45So, I think it will be interesting going forward.
14:48But, yeah, it doesn't feel like a summer of sort of wholesale change.
14:53You know, coming up from League One a couple of seasons ago, it was very busy, wasn't it?
14:58And even last summer as well felt quite busy.
15:01Obviously, there's still a long way to go in this transfer window.
15:04But it doesn't feel like Sunderland are going to be, you know, hugely active and there's going to be a massive turnover of players.
15:10And that could benefit the squad, actually, a little bit of continuity.
15:14But, yeah, all eyes on the outgoings, I think, at the moment.
15:17Yeah, I think they'll definitely be both in and outgoings this summer, as there often is.
15:22As you mentioned there, Clarke's a big one, isn't it?
15:24If Clarke does go, then that leaves a huge void there from last season where he scored 15 goals.
15:29And at the end of the season wasn't even at his best because he'd come back from that ankle injury.
15:33So if he left, and I don't even think it's a case, it may not even be a case of bringing in one player to replace Jack Clarke.
15:39That's so much pressure on someone coming in.
15:41It may be a case of bringing in two or three players that are going to kind of chip in with those goals.
15:46That's definitely one to watch out for.
15:48We'll come on to transfers now.
15:50So another comment on Facebook saying, what's the latest on Alexander Mendy?
15:55We'll come to you on this one, Phil.
15:57The reports coming from France on Friday suggested that he had chose Sunderland as the club that he wanted to join.
16:04But your understanding was that it wasn't as clear cut as that.
16:07So what is the latest on him that you understand?
16:14Yeah, I mean, I've not heard of any changes to the situation from Friday night, to be completely honest with you.
16:21So just to go kind of back to that a little bit, obviously, you know, the report from France, which I'm sure is accurate,
16:29is that Mendy from Kent wants to join Sunderland as opposed to some of the other options that he's maybe potentially had on the table
16:36or the other clubs that are interested in.
16:38That's obviously very significant because it means that Sunderland want to sign him and they're going to get a great fee.
16:42Then you'd think it would go over the line.
16:44You know, all I can say is that, you know, when I asked the question to people who would kind of know what Sunderland did,
16:49the feedback was very much that he was still one of a number of options and that they hadn't decided what the right deal was for them this summer.
16:57I think it's pretty obvious that whoever the striker deal is, whether it's Mendy or whether it's anybody else from another club,
17:02you know, financially, it's going to be a significant one.
17:05And I get the impression that, you know, what you don't want to do is you don't want to sort of rush into making the wrong decision.
17:11So I get the impression that at the moment they're just still weighing up their options.
17:14I think it's obvious, isn't it, that there's a gap in valuation between Sunderland and Ken.
17:18I think their manager is on the record, actually, in terms of talking about the fact that as of yet, you know,
17:23there certainly hasn't been a bid for Mendy that they're happy with.
17:27So I can't say at the moment that I've had any updates on the situation since Friday, really.
17:33I reported then that, you know, although there's definitely interest and it's a deal that could potentially happen,
17:38it's certainly not something that was imminent. And, you know, we're three years on from that now and nothing's happened.
17:42So I think it's just one to watch at the moment, to be honest.
17:45I think there's a lot to play out more generally.
17:48And I think it's fair to say that there's a number of strikers that Sunderland are looking at.
17:52And what they have to decide is which one makes the most sense for them, both financially and on the footballing front.
17:57That may well be Mendy. He may well come inside.
17:59And at some point, he obviously had an excellent season last year, which is very attractive to Sunderland,
18:05because, you know, they don't just need a striker, they need a striker who scores goals.
18:08So definitely one to watch, may well happen.
18:11But I get the impression that there's quite a bit of work to do on that deal.
18:16And, you know, B, he's not necessarily the only player on Sunderland's radar at this stage.
18:23It is a huge deal that they've got to get right, James.
18:25Obviously, we say that about a lot of deals, but this is the striker that's going to come in and probably be Sunderland's first choice striker.
18:32As we saw last year, they invested money in some younger strikers that didn't look up to it last season.
18:37There's still a lot of time for them to grow into the players that Sunderland want them to be.
18:41Mayenda and Hamir.
18:42Rusin obviously had his challenges as well, coming over from Ukraine.
18:46And hopefully he's better settled this year to have a good season.
18:48But it looks like the striker that Sunderland are going to pay money in, whether it's Mendy or whether it's someone else,
18:53he's going to be their first choice striker.
18:55And he's going to have to deliver with goals, especially if Jack Clarke leaves as well.
18:58He's going to have a very big role in the team.
19:00So it is important that Sunderland get this one right, whether that means taking their time.
19:04Obviously, ideally, it would be great to get this player in now, whether that's Mendy or someone else.
19:08But Sunderland do need to get this one right, don't they?
19:11No, they really do. And I don't mind them taking the time over a deal to get it right.
19:16But I think now is the time where it really, really does have to come off.
19:21And they do have to sign that experienced goalscoring striker.
19:24Obviously, there's no guarantees in terms of goals.
19:27As I say, I don't mind them taking the time this summer.
19:29But that's sort of caveated with this striker issue has been ongoing for some time.
19:35Sunderland fans have been aware for some time, going even back to the Ross Stewart days
19:40and the Sims days before Sims left and before Stewart got injured.
19:44Sunderland were crying out for some reinforcements up front.
19:46So it's been a long-term issue now that really does need resolving.
19:50As you say, the sort of form of my end has been really promising.
19:54Would you be comfortable going into the season against Cardiff City with him as your striker?
20:01First-choice striker? Probably not.
20:03So you would like to see it done before that opening day, wouldn't you, really?
20:08But as Phil mentioned, there might be other targets that we haven't heard about yet.
20:13So it's ever-evolving, ever-moving, ever-changing.
20:17I long for the day where we don't have to talk about strikers at Sunderland.
20:20It would be nice just to have one that comes in and scores.
20:23So I think it's positive that the club have actually noted and are actively trying
20:28to sort that experience goal-scoring striker issue out.
20:31I know they tried in January and they couldn't get it over the line,
20:34and they have done historically.
20:36I think this question of money is really interesting.
20:39Obviously, I do not want Sunderland to be ripped off in the market and pay over the odds for players.
20:44I think Sunderland's ownership, Sunderland's decision-makers have a responsibility
20:48to get the best deal for the club, the best deal for the fans who put their money in.
20:53But there does come a time when you do have to maybe pay a little bit more
20:59to get your preferred target.
21:01I'm not saying Sunderland haven't spent money because they quite clearly have
21:04on some good players over the years.
21:06But in terms of that striker, they've perhaps been a little bit reluctant
21:10to overextend themselves.
21:12But at some point, they might just have to twist the parameters a little bit
21:16to get that one over the line.
21:18It'll be interesting to see whether they're prepared to do that this window,
21:21whether they're prepared to do that for Mendy,
21:23or whether they're prepared to do that for somebody else.
21:26Just before we finish, just wanted to come to you on this one, Phil,
21:29about the backroom staff comment we've had.
21:32Have we not got a striker coach? It just seems a waste having these forwards
21:36if they aren't going to be used.
21:38What is the latest on the backroom staff?
21:42We heard from Labrie that he may bring in one of his own
21:45or someone else from elsewhere to come into Sunderland's backroom team.
21:50What is the latest situation with the backroom staff?
21:55Labrie is still, I don't know if interviewing is quite the right word,
21:59because I don't know if that's quite that formal.
22:01He's still speaking to potential candidates,
22:04and that will ultimately be his decision.
22:06That will be like his assistant head coach.
22:08I don't know exactly what title he'll be given,
22:10but that will essentially be the role.
22:13The plan, as far as I understand it, is to make that appointment.
22:17I'm hopeful that might be, if not later this week, then maybe next week.
22:21I should ramp up, I think, now that Sunderland are back in the UK.
22:25I definitely think that will be in place before the start of the season.
22:29Then I think it's the case of Labrie taking stock,
22:32looking at how the new dynamic is with Dodds, Procter,
22:35obviously goalkeeping coach Alessandro Barcherini,
22:37and whoever this new assistant is.
22:39Then him alongside Christian Speightman,
22:41then determining if there's any areas of specialty that they want to add.
22:46One of the things he spoke about in his opening press conference
22:48was set pieces.
22:50I think once he's got the new person in, he'll assess all these things
22:53and go, is there anywhere where we have a little bit of a gap at the moment
22:56that we could do with adding another staff member.
23:00He talked about individual development as well as being a key thing.
23:03He wants somebody to oversee all of that.
23:05It will be a case of bringing one in, I think, as an assistant.
23:08Then it will be a case of him determining what roles the current staff will have.
23:13Then if there's any gaps, I think we may see somebody added
23:16over the course of the season.
23:17I would expect that to be one addition in the short term
23:21and then maybe some more in the future.
23:23I think that's something that will probably ramp up now that they're back in the UK.
23:27James Phil, thanks a lot for joining me on the latest episode of The Royal Podcast.
23:38We'll see you next time.