Patty Murray Leads Senate Appropriations Committee Markup Of Pending Legislation

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Sen. Patty Murray (D-WA) leads a Senate Appropriations Committee hearing on pending legislation.

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Transcript
00:00:00Today our committee will consider the fiscal year 2025 appropriation bills
00:00:05recommended by the Subcommittee on Commerce, Justice, Science and Related
00:00:09Agencies, the Subcommittee on Interior, Environment and Related Agencies, the
00:00:14Subcommittee on Transportation, Housing and Urban Development and Related
00:00:18Agencies, the Subcommittee on State Foreign Operations and Related Programs
00:00:22is on our calendar for today. We're working through a couple of last-minute
00:00:25issues. We should be able to move to that but we will just for everybody's
00:00:29awareness we're still working through a few issues on that. So before we get
00:00:35going let me quickly run through the plan for today and I will start off with
00:00:39some opening remarks. Next the Vice Chair will give her opening remarks and as
00:00:44soon as those remarks have concluded and everyone is here I intend to begin
00:00:48voting on final passage of the three bills and we will hold again on
00:00:53Subcommittee on State Foreign Operations which we will do later in
00:00:56this morning's hearing. We have a number of other committees meeting this
00:01:00morning and a short window to have all of our members here so I do ask that
00:01:03everyone be here in full attendance till we get those votes done. Following those
00:01:08votes we will move to the consideration of amendments to those bills. With that I
00:01:14want to thank Vice Chair Collins, Senators Shaheen and Moran, the chair and
00:01:19ranking member of the CJS Subcommittee, Senators Merkley and Murkowski, the
00:01:23Interior Subcommittee chair and ranking member, Senator Coons and Graham, the
00:01:27SFOPS Subcommittee chair and ranking member, and Senator Schatz and Hyde-Smith,
00:01:32the T-HUD Subcommittee chair and ranking member who have put in hard work to pull
00:01:37together all four strong bipartisan bills. We passed three bills in
00:01:42overwhelming votes last time thanks to everyone who put politics aside and put
00:01:47solutions first and we are in a good position to make progress on that today.
00:01:51I have emphasized throughout this process and really as long as I've been
00:01:55in politics that we cannot shortchange our families or our communities or our
00:02:00future so I'm glad this committee is once again working to produce and pass
00:02:04funding bills that will make people's lives better, address challenges that we
00:02:08are facing and invest in our country's future and I'm glad as we discussed at
00:02:13our first markup that Vice Chair Collins and I were able to reach a bipartisan
00:02:17agreement to make these investments possible with much-needed additional
00:02:21funding for non-defense and defense alike. It's crucial to making sure we can
00:02:26address serious shortfalls, tackle urgent new challenges here at home and abroad,
00:02:31prevent devastating layoffs and cutbacks to services and invest in families and
00:02:36in our country's future. Now the bipartisan bills before us today include
00:02:41funding to support families and I'm especially pleased they deliver crucial
00:02:45new investments to help address the housing crisis, build more affordable
00:02:49housing, keep families in their homes. They include investments to strengthen
00:02:54our economy and keep America on the cutting edge with funding for everything
00:02:58from groundbreaking scientific research to help make good on the promise of the
00:03:03Chips in the Science Act, to weather satellites that are crucial for so many
00:03:07industries and everyone at home wondering about tomorrow's forecast, to
00:03:11support for NASA's missions and maintaining our incredible legacy of
00:03:15leadership in space, to rebuilding or to building trade relations and trade
00:03:19infrastructure like our ports. And of course there are countless different
00:03:24ways these bills invest in keeping people safe with funding to hire and
00:03:28keep air traffic controllers, rail safety inspectors, wildland firefighters and law
00:03:34enforcement officials. These bills deliver resources to help ensure every
00:03:38American has access to clean air and clean water and to combat the climate
00:03:43crisis and protect our country's incredible lands and waterways. And they
00:03:47deliver crucial investments in diplomacy and strengthening our global leadership
00:03:51an especially important tool right now given the aggressive moves we have seen
00:03:56from our adversaries and the allies we have like Ukraine facing existential
00:04:01threats. Getting here has not been easy it has required all of us to make some
00:04:06tough decisions and seek out common ground but as I made clear at our last
00:04:10markup here in the Senate we are moving ahead with strong bipartisan bills that
00:04:14can actually be passed and signed into law and which actually address the
00:04:18issues we all hear about back home and the many challenges we are seeing abroad.
00:04:23We've already passed three bills unanimously and I hope thanks to
00:04:27everyone's hard work we can keep that momentum going today. With that I will
00:04:31turn to Vice Chair Collins for any comments she would like to make. Thank
00:04:36you Madam Chair for convening today's markup which is our second of the fiscal
00:04:432025 appropriation cycle. Discretionary spending makes up just over a
00:04:52quarter of the federal budget however its impacts are significant affecting
00:04:59everything from public health and education to transportation water and
00:05:05energy infrastructure and vital national security and economic programs. As the
00:05:12chair has explained today we will first consider the Commerce Justice and
00:05:17Science Funding Bill. This bill supports our state and local law enforcement
00:05:23including through the regional information sharing systems program that
00:05:28facilitates cooperation among federal state and local law enforcement agencies
00:05:34and the very popular burn formula program that supports a range of
00:05:40activities from prosecution to prevention. The bill also funds research
00:05:46and critical science scientific and technological fields that are necessary
00:05:51to ensure our economic and competitive strength. It supports oceans and
00:05:58fisheries programs that are vital to many of our coastal communities in Maine
00:06:04and other states. Let me join the chair in commending Chair Shaheen and Ranking
00:06:11Member Moran for their extraordinary work on this bill. Second we will
00:06:17consider the Interior and Environment Appropriations. This bill provides
00:06:22critical resources for programs geared toward providing clean drinking water
00:06:27and wastewater assistance to those that support conservation and management of
00:06:33our treasured national parks and public lands. The bill also funds important
00:06:39tribal programs and wildfire suppression. Let me express my appreciation for the
00:06:45great work of Chairman Merkley and Ranking Member Murkowski on this bill.
00:06:51We will move on to the Transportation and Housing and Urban Development
00:06:56Funding Bill which supports initiatives to help improve our nation's
00:07:02infrastructure including through the RAISE grant program and the Rural Bridge
00:07:07program. It also invests in the FAA supporting much needed additional air
00:07:15traffic controllers and the modernization of outdated systems. I'm
00:07:20especially pleased that this bill continues support for the shoreside
00:07:25infrastructure improvements at our nation's state maritime academies
00:07:30including Maine Maritime Academy. The legislation maintains existing rental
00:07:37assistance for more than 4.5 million households and continues to make
00:07:43meaningful investments aimed at tackling the problem of homelessness
00:07:48especially for our nation's veterans and youth. I thank Chairman Schatz and
00:07:54Ranking Member Hyde-Smith for their tremendous work on this bill which as
00:07:59they both know is one that I care a great deal about having co-led the
00:08:04Transportation and Housing Subcommittee for a dozen years with Senator Reed.
00:08:10Finally I do hope that we will be able to consider the State Foreign
00:08:17Operations Appropriations Bill. It promotes regional security in the Middle
00:08:22East including through military aid to our ally Israel. It provides funding to
00:08:29continue to support Ukraine as it fights against Russia's
00:08:35unlawful invasion and it would help counter China's malign influence around
00:08:40the globe. It also invests in life-saving global health humanitarian
00:08:45assistance and development programs and it provides funding to combat the flow
00:08:51of fentanyl, its precursor chemicals, and other synthetic drugs into the United
00:08:57States. Addictive drugs are pouring into our country destroying families and
00:09:03communities and must be stopped. I appreciate that Chairman Coons and
00:09:08Ranking Member Graham included new report language this year directing the
00:09:13Secretaries of State and Treasury to share with us relevant information they
00:09:18may have about the role of Chinese transnational criminal syndicates in
00:09:24marijuana grows and munder laundering operations in Maine. This is a terrible
00:09:31problem in rural Maine where an estimated 150 to 200 houses are being
00:09:38used for illegal marijuana growing operations. I want to thank both Chairman
00:09:44Coons and Ranking Member Graham for their great work on this bill. I look
00:09:51forward to today's markup and appreciate the hard work of all members.
00:10:00Yeah we will now begin votes and I note the presence of a quorum and I will
00:10:06Senator Manchin if you could just hold until we do the votes and then I will
00:10:10turn to you. I will now turn to Senator Collins to make the customary motions
00:10:14for the CJS, Interior, and Fed bills. Madam Chair, I move that the committee
00:10:20report favorably an original bill making appropriations for Commerce Justice
00:10:25Science and related agencies for the fiscal year ending September 30th 2025
00:10:31and for other purposes. An original bill making appropriations for the Department
00:10:36of Interior, Environment, and related agencies for the fiscal year ending
00:10:42September 30th 2025 and for other purposes. And an original bill making
00:10:48appropriations for the Departments of Transportation and Housing and Urban
00:10:53Development and related agencies for the fiscal year ending September 30th 2025
00:10:59and for other purposes provided that each bill be subject to amendment and
00:11:04that each bill be consistent with its budget allocation provided further that
00:11:09the chair of the committee or the chair of the subcommittee reporting the
00:11:12original bill be authorized to offer the substance of the original bill as the
00:11:19committee amendment in the nature of the substitute to the house companion measure.
00:11:24I would also point out that members do have the right to change their vote
00:11:30depending on the adoption or non-adoption of the amendments. Is there
00:11:35an objection? Without objection, we will now vote to report the CJS bill
00:11:40favorably subject to amendment. The clerk will call the roll.
00:12:00Senator Van Hollen. Aye. Senator Heinrich. Aye. Senator Peters. Aye. Senator Sinema. Aye. Senator Collins. Aye. Senator McConnell. Aye by proxy. Senator Murkowski. Aye. Senator Graham. Aye. Senator Moran. Aye. Senator Hovind. Yes. Senator Bozeman. Aye. Senator Capito. Aye. Senator Kennedy. Aye. Senator Heidsmith. Aye. Senator Hagerty. No.
00:12:29Senator Britt. Aye. Senator Rubio. No. Senator Fischer. Aye. Senator Murray. Aye.
00:12:51On this vote there are 26 ayes, three nays. The motion to report the bill
00:12:56favorably is agreed to. Next we will vote to report the interior bill
00:13:01favorably subject to amendment. The clerk will call the roll. Senator Durbin. Aye. Senator Reed. Aye. Senator Tester. Yes. Senator Sahin. Aye. Senator Merkley. Aye. Senator Coons. Aye. Senator Schatz. Aye. Senator Baldwin. Aye. Senator Murphy. Aye. Senator Manchin. Aye. Senator Van Hollen. Aye. Senator Heinrich. Aye. Senator Peters. Aye.
00:13:25Senator Sinema. Aye. Senator Collins. Aye. Senator McConnell. Aye by proxy. Senator Murkowski. Aye. Senator Graham. Aye. Senator Moran. Aye. Senator Hovind. Yes. Senator Bozeman. Aye. Senator Capito. Aye. Senator Kennedy. Aye. Senator Heidsmith. Aye. Senator Hagerty. Aye. Senator Britt. Aye. Senator Rubio.
00:13:56Senator Fischer. Aye. Senator Murray. Aye.
00:14:09On this vote there are 28 ayes, 1 nay. The motion to report the bill favorably is
00:14:15agreed to and we will now vote to report the tea head bill favorably subject to
00:14:20amendment the clerk will call the roll. Senator Durbin. Aye. Senator Reed. Aye. Senator Tester. Aye.
00:14:28Senator Sahin. Aye. Senator Merkley. Aye. Senator Coons. Aye. Senator Schatz. Aye. Senator Baldwin. Aye.
00:14:36Senator Murphy. Aye. Senator Manchin. Aye. Senator Van Hollen. Aye. Senator Heinrich. Aye.
00:14:43Senator Peters. Aye. Senator Sinema. Aye. Senator Collins. Aye. Senator Murkowski. Aye.
00:14:52Senator McConnell. Aye by proxy. Senator Graham. Aye. Senator Moran. Aye. Senator Hovind. Aye.
00:14:59Senator Bozeman. Aye. Senator Capito. Aye. Senator Kennedy. Aye. Senator Heidsmith. Aye.
00:15:06Senator Hagerty. Aye. Senator Britt. Aye. Senator Rubio. Aye. Senator Fischer. Aye. Senator Murray. Aye.
00:15:24On this vote there are 28 ayes, 1 nay. The motion to report the bill favorably
00:15:28is agreed to and again for the information of all committee members we will vote to
00:15:32move forward on the SFOPS bill shortly. I will give you a few minutes notice before that vote
00:15:38occurs. Senator Collins, you had a motion you wanted to make. Yes. Madam Chair, as a courtesy
00:15:45to the leader, Senator McConnell has asked to be recorded. Thank you. As a courtesy to the leader,
00:15:53Senator McConnell has asked to be recorded. As president voting yes on the Commerce Justice
00:15:59Science Appropriations Bill, yes on the Interior Environment and Related Agencies Bill, and yes on
00:16:06the Departments of Transportation, Housing and Urban Development and Related Agencies Appropriations
00:16:12Bill. I ask that the committee grant this request as it would not set a formal precedent nor would
00:16:17it change any vote outcome. So ordered. Before we turn to CJS, Senator Manchin, did you want to be
00:16:24recognized? Okay, if you can turn your mic on. How about now?
00:16:36Well, I appreciate CJS Subcommittee Chair Shaheen and Ranking Member Moran's diligent efforts
00:16:40on this year's CJS Appropriations Bill. I could not in good conscience support the bill because
00:16:45of the grave concerns I still have and I hope all of you think about this. NOAA's proposed vessel
00:16:51speed rule, which is crazy and ludicrous. In 2022, NOAA proposed a rule that would require small
00:16:57recreational boats between 35 and 65 feet in length to travel at speeds below 10 knots for up to seven
00:17:04months of year, which goes clear out to 20 nautical miles, stretching almost the entire length of the
00:17:10Atlantic coast. NOAA claims that this is the only thing that will protect the endangered North
00:17:14Atlantic right well. Let me be clear, this rule would absolutely devastate the entire recreational
00:17:20boating and fishing industry. It will force vessel operators to navigate choppy waters at dangerous
00:17:25or low speeds and it would economically be disastrous for the communities that depend on
00:17:30ocean tourism. It is ill-conceived and overreaching, but what's even worse is that it isn't the
00:17:36only or even the best way to protect these endangered animals. NOAA proposed the expansion
00:17:41of this rule without first even attempting to engage with the boating and marine technology industry.
00:17:47Technology exists today that could be implemented immediately to protect all of the marine life at
00:17:52a risk of vessel strikes, including the North Atlantic right well. And this committee has
00:17:58acknowledged as much in the past, the fiscal year 2024 Commerce, Justice, and Science Bill, and my
00:18:03urging, including report language encouraging NOAA to work with industry to support the testing
00:18:08and evaluation of the well monitoring technologies. It was only one and a half years after the
00:18:14rule was proposed. Think about that. After they proposed it. And NOAA bothered to host
00:18:21its first technology workshop. It took them one and a half years to even have a workshop
00:18:26in March of this year to hear from stakeholders about the technology that already exists today to
00:18:31help detect and prevent vessel strikes. While this seemed to signal NOAA's openness to working with
00:18:37the industry to protect these animals rather than against it, it quickly became clear they had no
00:18:43interest in taking their input into account. NOAA sent the rule to OMB the very same week of the
00:18:49workshop. The same rule that they never heard anything about. With all the options available
00:18:55to us today, a blanket vehicle speed rule is an archaic and unsafe solution to a problem that
00:19:01could be addressed in a far effective way with technology. The Boating Industries Well and Vessel
00:19:07Safety Task Force has published dozens of reports on the technologies available for deployment
00:19:12immediately. These include technology that can detect the nearby presence of wells and other
00:19:16marine mammals, trackers to monitor the real-time location of wells along the coast, and onboard
00:19:21data integrated into both displays. Despite seeing this firsthand at the workshop, NOAA made it clear
00:19:27that they have no problem disregarding congressional intent and moving forward with this disastrous
00:19:32rule. So I appreciate, I truly do appreciate, the subcommittee including additional language and
00:19:37funding for programs exploring alternatives to the VSR. I have no faith that the NOAA agency and
00:19:44the leadership they have right today will so much as look at their findings. I call on NOAA to
00:19:49consider the devastating impact this rule would have on recreational boating, fishing economy,
00:19:54and tourism, and the wealth and health and well-being of all economies along the coast.
00:19:59So I strongly oppose NOAA's position in not even trying to work in a most prosperous way
00:20:08with the technologies we have available. I would hope all of you would place, would really give
00:20:12your full-throated voice to this issue. NOAA has got to have some common sense,
00:20:20and if they don't have it within their own system, then we have to give it to them here.
00:20:26Thank you, Madam Chairman.
00:20:30We are, we're ready to move forward on voting on the SFOPS bill. I'm waiting for a couple of
00:20:35committee members to come back with the indulgence of everyone. If you could please stay here,
00:20:40we will move to that as soon as they return. But in the meantime, we will now turn to
00:20:45consideration of Commerce, Justice, Science, and Related Agencies Appropriations Bill.
00:20:50I want to thank Senators Shaheen and Moran and their subcommittee staff for working together
00:20:55and producing a strong bipartisan bill. I know it wasn't easy to do. This bill includes the
00:21:00crucial investments in keeping our nation strong and competitive and our community safe,
00:21:05investments to support our workforce, promote U.S. businesses, and strengthen our trade and exports,
00:21:11investments to make sure we lead the world in research and new technologies like advanced
00:21:16manufacturing and AI, to name a few, and investments in law enforcement working to
00:21:21prevent deadly drugs like fentanyl from reaching communities, stop corporate monopolies from
00:21:27trampling fair competition, and more. I'm especially pleased that this bill includes
00:21:31record funding for the Office on Violence Against Women. Some of this funding will also help build
00:21:37on important work I've championed to ensure survivors of sexual assault can get justice
00:21:42and the care that they need. These are truly worthwhile investments. With that, I will turn
00:21:47it over to Senator Shaheen for her opening remarks. Thank you very much, Chair Murray and Vice Chair
00:21:52Collins. I want to begin by thanking you first for your leadership on this committee, for your
00:22:00willingness to work together. I think you have set a model that has been very important for the rest
00:22:05of us on the committee to see and also for the country to see. As I talk to constituents and
00:22:13businesses in New Hampshire, one of the most number one concerns they raise with me is the ability of
00:22:20us in Congress to work together. So I think it's an example that I can share with my constituents
00:22:26and also from the business community. The most important thing they want is budget certainty.
00:22:32They want to know that we are passing budgets on time in a way that shows them
00:22:39what the government is funding. So I think this process allows us to go home and talk about
00:22:47how we are able to do that and I thank you both very much for your leadership.
00:22:51I also want to thank my ranking member, Senator Moran, for being such a great partner.
00:22:59Whether he's been chair and I've been ranking member or I've been chair and he's been ranking
00:23:03member, we have worked closely together to produce bills that are compromises that everyone can
00:23:11support. I want to thank his staff, Brian Danner, Kevin Wheeler, and Marcus Points for working
00:23:17closely with my staff to draft this important bill. Now we held substantive hearings. We listened to
00:23:23the concerns of committee members and our Senate colleagues and we worked to respond to the needs
00:23:28of the nation and all of our individual states. The 2025 CJS bill before us meets the subcommittee
00:23:36allocation of $73.7 billion in discretionary funding and it continues investing in a wide
00:23:43range of programs that affect the lives of every American, prioritizes keeping our communities and
00:23:48nations safe and secure, furthering the nation United States leadership in science and innovation
00:23:54and assisting the growth and prosperity of American businesses. And I want to give just a couple of
00:23:59examples of specifics from the bill. $740 million in the bill is for the Violence Against Women Act
00:24:07grants. This is the highest funding level that we ever put forward for these life-saving programs.
00:24:15$611 million is to fight the opioid epidemic which my state of New Hampshire and I know many other
00:24:22states in the country are still battling. $288 million for the Department of Justice
00:24:28Antitrust Division and we allow the agency to retain and use all of the pre-merger filing
00:24:34notification fees it collects in 2025 so it's consistent with legislation that we passed in
00:24:40Congress. $11.2 billion to advance the Bipartisan Chips and Science Act including $100 million
00:24:47for EDA's regional tech hubs program enough for two to five more implementation grants. $48 million
00:24:55for the new U.S. Artificial Intelligence Safety Institute at NIST to help ensure that AI programs
00:25:02operate safely. $1.9 billion for NOAA's weather satellites which are key to accurate weather
00:25:08prediction needed to protect life and property including another hurricane hunter. $25.4 billion
00:25:15for NASA to return astronauts to the moon including the first woman and person of color and maintain
00:25:22U.S. leadership in space. Now these represent just some of the nearly 1,900 programmatic requests
00:25:28from senators that the committee has tried to meet, subcommittee has tried to meet. I think they
00:25:35made this bill better. We were glad to work with everyone on the committee and all of those
00:25:40senators we heard from. None of this would have been possible without the dedicated hard work of
00:25:46my staff, Jess Berry, Mike Benardzik, Blaise Sheridan, Lindsay Erickson, and Angela Callum.
00:25:53I thank them for their hard work. Now I'll turn to Ranking Member Moran for his remarks. And Senator
00:25:59Moran before you begin we are ready to move to SFOPS. I'm waiting for two committee members to
00:26:04return. If that is your boss and your staff member here, will you please bring them back and will
00:26:08nobody else please leave? Senator Moran. Thank you for pursuing me in audience. Madam Chairman,
00:26:18thank you very much. Thank you to you and Senator Collins for your leadership on this Appropriations
00:26:23Committee and I too express my gratitude to Senator Shaheen and her staff for their kindness
00:26:29and capabilities of working together and finding common sense solutions on any issues that we had
00:26:35difficulties with. And I express my gratitude to her staff, Jess Berry, Angela Callum, Blaise Sheridan,
00:26:42Mike Benardzik, and Lindsay Erickson. And to the minority staff, Brian Danner, Kevin Wheeler,
00:26:49and Marcus Points. This bill is fiscally responsible to my constituents who worry about
00:26:58the amount of money that we spend based upon the allocation that we received. This is a modest
00:27:04increase in what we were able to spend last year and we use that money to try to fill in the gaps
00:27:10that were created by last year's appropriations process and to try to meet some of the dire or
00:27:17dramatic needs of some of the agencies that are the most important to members of this committee.
00:27:23And I think we were successful. We targeted our funding to this modest increase into
00:27:32important national priorities. I would highlight those and I would also, I guess, point out that
00:27:37while we have increased spending slightly, we are still spending, which may be true of many
00:27:43other subcommittees, less than we did just two years ago. So our priorities consisted of helping
00:27:51the DEA dismantle the Mexican cartels in a fight against fentanyl. In last year's funding, DEA's
00:28:00positions were, the funding available for their positions was significantly limited and we're
00:28:05trying to help them return to keep the agents in business. Support for local law enforcement,
00:28:12local police departments, and sheriff's departments in efforts to combat rising violent crime
00:28:17through significant program increases, for example, to the burn JAG grant program.
00:28:23Maintain the National Weather Service's life-saving weather forecasting capabilities.
00:28:28Continue the efforts at cutting edge artificial intelligence and quantum information research at
00:28:34NIST and the National Science Foundation. We increased the amount of money that the National
00:28:39Science Foundation will receive. In last year's appropriations process, it was significantly
00:28:46reduced. And finally, space exploration, including NASA's Artemis mission to the moon
00:28:52and to maintain our strategic advantage over China. Just in a broader way, I would say this bill is
00:29:05part of many components in our efforts at improving our national security and our economic well-being,
00:29:11particularly as we face challenges from China and its efforts to do
00:29:16harm to the United States of America. Again, I'm grateful to Senator Shaheen. I thank the
00:29:22chairman and ranking member for the allocation that we received and we tried to spend that money
00:29:29in the best way possible for the taxpayers of Kansas and the United States. I yield the floor.
00:29:38Thank you. We will move on the manager's package and as soon as that is complete,
00:29:43I'm going to move to SFOPS. If your boss is not in the room, tell him.
00:29:48Senator Sheen, you have a manager's package.
00:29:52I do. I would like to offer this manager's package, which has been distributed, I think,
00:29:57to all senators. The provisions have been cleared on both sides. It's a package of amendments that
00:30:02I think improves the bill and I ask the committee to adopt the manager's package by a voice vote.
00:30:08Is there any objections? Madam Chair, I support the adoption of the manager's package and I would
00:30:16highlight that it includes an amendment that I suggested to require the FBI to
00:30:23investigate and provide Congress with a public report on the assassination attempt of President
00:30:29Trump. Without objection, so ordered.
00:30:36We will now move to vote on the SFOPS final passage. I will turn to Senator Collins to
00:30:42make the customary motion for the SFOPS bill. Thank you, Madam Chair. I move that the
00:30:48committee report favorably an original bill making appropriations for the Department of State
00:30:55foreign operations and related programs for the fiscal year ending September 30th,
00:31:002025 and for other purposes provided that the bill be subject to amendment and that the bill
00:31:08be consistent with its budgeted allocation provided further that the chair of the committee or the
00:31:14chair of the subcommittee reporting the original bill be authorized to offer the substance of the
00:31:20original bill it's a committee amendment and the nature of a substitute to the house companion
00:31:26measure provided further that any senator wishing to change his or her vote to report during this
00:31:33meeting the committee be able to do so by notifying the chair. Without objection, we will now move to
00:31:40report the SFOPS bill favorably subject to amendment. The clerk will call the roll. Senator Durbin. Aye.
00:31:45Senator Reed. Aye. Senator Custer. Aye. Senator Sahin. Aye. Senator Merkley. Aye. Senator Coons. Aye. Senator Schatz. Aye.
00:31:55Senator Baldwin. Aye. Senator Murphy. Aye. Senator Manchin.
00:32:02Senator Manchin. Aye. Senator Van Hollen. Aye. Senator Heinrich. Aye. Senator Peters. Aye.
00:32:08Senator Sinema. Aye. Senator Collins. Aye. Senator McConnell. Aye by proxy. Senator Murkowski. Aye.
00:32:16Senator Graham. Aye. Senator Moran. Aye. Senator Hoeven. Aye. Senator Bozeman. Aye. Senator Capito. Aye.
00:32:25Senator Kennedy. Aye. Senator Hyde-Smith. Aye. Senator Hagerty. Aye. Senator Britt. Aye. Senator Rubio. No.
00:32:35Senator Fischer and Senator Murray. Aye.
00:32:46The vote is now 27 ayes, two nays. The motion is agreed to. Senator Collins. Madam Chair, as a
00:32:52courtesy to the leaders, Senator McConnell has asked to be recorded as present and voting yes
00:32:58on the Department of State Foreign Ops and Related Appropriations bill. I ask that the committee
00:33:04grant this request as it would not set a formal precedent nor would it change any vote outcomes.
00:33:09Without objection, so agreed to. With that, sorry for the pause on the CJS bill. We will turn back
00:33:16to that. Are there any members? Madam Chair. Yes. Yeah, I wanted to make a comment about the CJS bill.
00:33:20Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to thank the chair and ranking member of that subcommittee
00:33:26but I'm very disappointed in the recent NASA decision to cancel the Viper rover at NASA.
00:33:32This mission would be a major advancement for Artemis. Due to the funding implications and
00:33:36timing of the announcement, I'm not asking for action at this markup, but I respectfully ask
00:33:41that you, Madam Chair and Senator Moran, to please work with me as the bill moves forward
00:33:47to look for ways to repurpose the lander portion of this mission to advance Moon to Mars objectives.
00:33:53The mission directly supports a national imperative for continued U.S. leadership in
00:33:57science and exploration in the face of urgent geopolitical competition. So, can we work together
00:34:03as we move this bill? Absolutely. Thank you. Are there any members wishing to speak to or
00:34:10offer an amendment? Yes. Senator Hagerty. First, I'd like to thank the chairman, vice chairman.
00:34:18I appreciate your work and also the subcommittee chair, Chair Jaheen and ranking member Moran.
00:34:23Thank you for your work on this. First, I'd like to thank Senator Manchin for his comments and
00:34:29associate myself with his comments. Tennessee is a robust boat manufacturing industry.
00:34:35Noah's behavior, as you so eloquently described, Senator Manchin, is unconscionable. It's clear it's
00:34:40devoid of any sort of cost-benefit analysis and I would look forward to working with you to address
00:34:44this concern. To turn back to my amendment, I'm posing an amendment that poses a very simple
00:34:50question. That question is, who has the final say over our bill? This committee or a special council
00:34:58not confirmed by the Senate? More specifically, will this committee allow such an actor to override
00:35:04our judgment without our approval and allow such an actor to defund the resources we provide for
00:35:11real law enforcement against dangerous criminals? In fiscal year 2023, more than 11 million dollars
00:35:18in funds provided by this committee for law enforcement were diverted to special counsel
00:35:22Jack Smith's investigation of the Republican presidential candidate. For fiscal year 2024,
00:35:29the Department of Justice hasn't yet reported these numbers, but given Jack Smith's election
00:35:33year escalations and repeated defeats in court, this diversion of law enforcement funds is no doubt
00:35:38even worse this fiscal year. That means less money for law enforcement due to the diversion.
00:35:44My amendment is simple. It would prohibit the law enforcement funding that's provided by this
00:35:49committee from being defunded without our committee's approval. My amendment would protect
00:35:54the constitutional prerogative of this committee over the resources that we provide. In my view,
00:36:00Jack Smith should not have the power to override this committee and co-opt for his political
00:36:05prosecution the resources that we have provided for true law enforcement. The question is simple.
00:36:12Do you support protecting the constitutional prerogative of this committee
00:36:15and closing the trap door that is allowing Jack Smith to defund our law enforcement resources?
00:36:21My amendment will ensure that law enforcement resources that this committee provides
00:36:25go towards stopping dangerous criminals, not presidential candidates.
00:36:29I ask for a roll call vote and urge my colleagues to support this amendment. Thank you.
00:36:33Senator Shaheen. I appreciate Senator Hagerty's concerns, but the appointment of the special
00:36:45counsel is important and it shouldn't be taken lightly as we've seen several times in recent
00:36:51years. It's important to protect the special counsel's independence regardless of which
00:36:56party controls the White House or the Department of Justice because we need to ensure to the
00:37:01American people that they can have confidence in these investigations. They need to be conducted
00:37:06in an open and transparent manner. They need to be given the full resources they need and I worry
00:37:12that giving any attorney general the power to reimburse the salaries of DOJ employees who
00:37:18provide support for the special counsel but do not work directly for the special counsel would
00:37:23give the attorney general too much power over the budget and therefore the special counsel's
00:37:28office itself and that would potentially weaken the special counsel's independence.
00:37:34Furthermore, under the Hagerty amendment, FBI agents and marshals will still be under operation
00:37:40control of the attorney general since it would be up to the attorney general to reimburse their
00:37:44expenses. This would upend how this process has worked in the past and CBO is now telling us that
00:37:53this amendment will score additional budget authority as written and it doesn't have an
00:37:58offset so if it passes as is it will kill the bill. So I urge my colleagues to vote against it.
00:38:09Madam Chair, may I respond? Yes, Senator Hagerty. Thank you very much for your comments, Chair
00:38:14Shaheen. I appreciate the thoughts that you convey but I would say this. Giving the attorney general
00:38:21power to reimburse certainly is far better than giving a non-confirmed special counsel the power
00:38:26to divert funds this committee has provided in discretionary funding. There are other mandatory
00:38:31accounts that have jurisdiction under other committees where these special counsels are
00:38:36to be funded. This is about the constitutional prerogative of our committee. It's also about
00:38:41an abuse of taking discretionary funding and moving it into a different direction beyond our
00:38:45authority. I understand the fact that there's been a number that has been scored by CBO but
00:38:50there have been a number of budget gimmicks that have taken place here to get to the place we need
00:38:54to be today. I don't want to stand or allow budget gimmicks to get in the way with some small number
00:38:58to stop us from taking back our authority and stop the misuse of these funds by a special counsel
00:39:04that has not even been confirmed by the United States Senate. Are there any other senators who
00:39:08wish to comment on this amendment? Senator Collins.
00:39:18Colleagues, this amendment is very carefully drafted and that is why I support it. It does not
00:39:28defund special counsels. Rather, it ensures that the funds that are provided to DOJ components
00:39:38such as the FBI or the marshal service are used for their intended purpose. If the special counsel
00:39:48wants to use the FBI or the marshal service, he still can do so but he needs to reimburse
00:39:58for taking those resources out of the department. This is carefully drafted. It reaffirms the role
00:40:08that we in Congress have when we appropriate money for the attorney general and its component
00:40:17agencies. The special counsel has access to funding through a permanent indefinite appropriation.
00:40:27What the problem is, is the special counsel is not fully reimbursing the components of the
00:40:36Justice Department and that is not right. I support this amendment and hope that people
00:40:44will take a close look at what it actually does. Thank you. Thank you.
00:40:51Madam Chair, I want to associate myself with Senator Agardiz and Senator Collins' comments.
00:41:02I appreciate Senator Shaheen's concerns, well-placed as usual, but I think if you read
00:41:10the amendment carefully, it is drafted in such a way that it addresses Senator Shaheen's
00:41:19very legitimate concerns and for that reason, I'm going to vote for the amendment and I would ask
00:41:28my colleagues and friends to read the amendment carefully. You will see that it is very artfully
00:41:34drafted. With that, let me just say that the appointment of special counsel is really
00:41:41important and not taken lightly as we have seen several times in recent years. It is really
00:41:47important to respect and protect the special counsel's office regardless of which party
00:41:52controls the White House, the Department of Justice, or Congress because all of us need to
00:41:57make sure that the American people have full confidence in these investigations. They need
00:42:04to be conducted in an open and transparent manner and be given the full resources that they need.
00:42:10There is a bright line between Justice Department employees formally detailed to a special counsel's
00:42:16office versus department employees who support the special counsel but are not formally detailed
00:42:22to that office. Employees formally detailed to a special counsel are reimbursed by the permanent
00:42:30and indefinite appropriation for independent counsels because those employees directly
00:42:34report to the special counsel, not the Attorney General. This amendment would actually append
00:42:40how special counsels and the Justice Department have worked together on numerous investigations
00:42:45over many decades. We've got to maintain and ensure the independence of the special counsel's
00:42:52office and I really worry that this amendment may have the potential to diminish that independence
00:42:58or have other unintended consequences. So, I urge my colleagues to oppose this amendment.
00:43:04Madam Chair, may I make one further brief comment? Senator Hagerty. Thank you.
00:43:09The magnitude of the diversion that's taken place here is significant.
00:43:13In 2023, $11 million alone. Diverted, not reimbursed. In 2024, given the
00:43:20proceedings that have been undertaken by special counsel Jack Smith and the fact that he loses in
00:43:24court, I'm sure that number has probably escalated beyond twice that, perhaps $30 million.
00:43:30We did not appropriate these funds. We have an actor who is not confirmed by the United States
00:43:36Senate who is making the decision on his own to divert those funds away from legitimate law
00:43:41enforcement which is what this committee has established and moved it to something to support
00:43:46his political prosecutions. This is something that if the Department of Justice, the Attorney
00:43:51General wants funds for this purpose, should seek them openly. There is a mandatory account that's
00:43:56under the Judiciary Department. They should work with those funds but they should not be taking
00:43:59funds that we have constitutional prerogative to direct and move them without any permission
00:44:05from this committee. Thank you. Madam Chair.
00:44:08Senator Kennedy. Madam Chair, I don't understand why we persist in giving away our power.
00:44:16All this amendment does is reclaim a small portion of our power. It is our job to make
00:44:23these decisions. This doesn't hurt the Attorney General. This doesn't hurt the Office of Special
00:44:30Counsel. This just reclaims the power that was originally ours until we gave it away.
00:44:40I mean, what are we here for? We're supposed to appropriate the money,
00:44:45not give carte blanche to an inferior officer. And I appreciate your concerns, Madam Chair,
00:44:56and Senator Shaheen's, but this amendment addresses it. And this is not going to cause
00:45:02the world to spin off its axis. This just reclaims Congress's power to appropriate
00:45:11in a transparent and fulsome way. And I don't understand the concern for the life of me.
00:45:19Senator Durbin. I wasn't going to comment on this, but I want to say a word.
00:45:23This Special Counsel statute is explicit in what it does. It gives to the Attorney General
00:45:32the power to appoint a Special Counsel in extraordinary cases. He determines that
00:45:38criminal investigation of a person or matter is warranted, that the investigation or prosecution
00:45:43to that person by a U.S. Attorney's Office or Litigating Division of the Department of Justice
00:45:48would present a conflict of interest for the department or other extraordinary circumstances,
00:45:54and that under the circumstances being the public interest to appoint an outside Special Counsel.
00:45:59So what kind of Special Counsels have been appointed? Attorney General Merrick Garland
00:46:03appointed U.S. Attorney David Weiss as a Special Counsel to prevent the appearance of political
00:46:10interference in the investigation and prosecution of Hunter Biden. Keep in mind that Mr. Weiss is a
00:46:15Republican who was appointed by former President Trump. And Attorney General Garland appointed
00:46:20Special Counsel Robert Herr to investigate the classified documents found at President Biden's
00:46:26properties. If the Hagerty Amendment becomes law, we stand the risk of jeopardizing this effort to
00:46:34avoid conflicts of interest. Yes, Senator Kennedy, there is a question of giving up our jurisdiction,
00:46:40but for an express purpose in a situation that warrants it. I'd think long and hard before I'd
00:46:46support this amendment. I think Senator Shaheen is right. There's budgetary consequences as well.
00:46:51I hope we defeat the Hagerty Amendment. Are there any other senators who wish to speak?
00:46:57Madam Chair, I'd like to speak briefly by mic. Senator Hagerty.
00:47:01Thank you, Senator Durbin, for your comments. I would just like to be clear that this would apply
00:47:04to any of the Special Counsels that reach across and redirect funds that we have appropriated in
00:47:09discretionary basis. It's not particular to Jack Smith. It's just that Jack Smith has been such
00:47:13an egregious example of this misappropriation of funds. What we're trying to do is reclaim
00:47:18our authority as a committee. That's what I'm trying to do. This is a major process foul,
00:47:23setting the politics aside. And I don't think it jeopardizes in any way the Attorney General's
00:47:28ability to achieve the job. There are other mandatory categories where these funds may
00:47:32come from. That's where they should come from unless they come back to this committee and
00:47:36have permission to do so. Thank you very much. Senator Shaheen.
00:47:40Just a final word, because I know we don't want to prolong the debate. But
00:47:43I appreciate the concerns that both you and Senator Kennedy are raising, Senator Hagerty.
00:47:49But the reality is what I fear this amendment would do is compromise the independence of the
00:47:57Special Counsel. And that's not in anybody's interest, regardless of what administration
00:48:03is in power and who the Special Counsel is. What this amendment would do is throw it back
00:48:08to the committee in a way that could potentially provide for partisan divides over how the Special
00:48:15Counsel operates. And again, I think that undermines the independence and credibility
00:48:23with the American public. And that is not a good thing. So that's why that and the fact that
00:48:30CBO says this would kill the bill, because it doesn't have an offset. But I think the
00:48:37independence question is really the fundamental one that's called into question by your amendment.
00:48:43Madam Chair, just one very brief response to that. What we have is a situation where funds
00:48:49that are appropriated to this committee have been diverted. They've been diverted without
00:48:53anyone's permission. And what I'm trying to do is clean that up and regain the authority for
00:48:58this committee in terms of the budgetary consequences. As I said, there have been
00:49:02a number of rescissions that have been talked about. This can be easily worked through that
00:49:05process. This is a minor number, but it's an important principle. And I encourage all of my
00:49:09colleagues to vote with me on this amendment. Thank you very much. Does the Senator request
00:49:12a roll call vote? I do. I do. Clerk will call the roll. Senator Durbin? No. Senator Reed? No.
00:49:23Senator Tester? No. Senator Shaheen? No. Senator Merkley? No. Senator Coons?
00:49:30Senator Schatz? No. Senator Baldwin? No. Senator Murphy? No. Senator Manchin? No.
00:49:37Senator Van Hollen? No by proxy. No by proxy. Senator Heinrich? No. Senator Peters?
00:49:45No by proxy. Senator Sinema? No. Senator Collins? Aye. Senator McConnell?
00:49:52Aye by proxy. Senator Murkowski? Aye. Senator Graham? Aye. Senator Moran? Aye. Senator Hoban?
00:50:01Aye. Senator Bozeman? Aye. Senator Capito? Aye. Senator Kennedy? Aye. Senator Hyde-Smith? Aye.
00:50:08Senator Hagerty? Aye. Senator Britt? Aye. Senator Rubio? Aye by proxy. Senator Fischer? Aye.
00:50:16Senator Murray? No.
00:50:28On this vote there are 14 ayes, 15 nays. The amendment is not agreed to.
00:50:34Are there any other members who wish to speak or offer an amendment on this bill?
00:50:38Seeing none, this bill will be reported as amended.
00:50:47With that we will move to consideration of the FY25 bill recommended by the Interior,
00:50:52Environment and Related Agencies Subcommittee. I want to thank Senators Merkley and Senator
00:50:58Murkowski and all of their staffs for their really important work on this bill. I'm really
00:51:03pleased we were able to work in a bipartisan way to craft a bill that helps us live up to our
00:51:09obligations to tribes, protects our federal firefighters from a pay cut that would seriously
00:51:15weaken our wildfire safety efforts by making sure the current pay levels are permanent, invests in
00:51:21our core environmental and conservation efforts, and not only increases funding for the Indian
00:51:26Health Service to maintain current staffing levels and fully fund the state of Indiana,
00:51:31to maintain current staffing levels and fully fund staffing at newly opened facilities,
00:51:36but once again includes advanced appropriations to help provide certainty and stability for a
00:51:41health care system that serves millions of patients. These are investments that directly
00:51:46affect the lives of many people and protect precious natural resources. I am pleased to
00:51:51have a bipartisan bill that shows we understand that. Before I do turn things over to Senator
00:51:57Merkley and Senator Murkowski, I do want to highlight a part of this bill. It's a very
00:52:03thoughtful tribute they have included in this bill to honor the late Senator Dianne Feinstein,
00:52:10who served on this committee for 25 years. The interior bill includes a provision naming a
00:52:16visitor center in Joshua Tree National Park after Senator Feinstein. This is fitting because one of
00:52:23her first major accomplishments in the Senate was the California Desert Protection Act of 1994
00:52:30that created Joshua Tree National Park, along with Death Valley National Park and the Mojave
00:52:35National Preserve. I remember well her dogged determination on that bill, strong-arming 48
00:52:42co-sponsors, including me, as an original co-sponsor, getting that bill across the Senate
00:52:48floor and to President Clinton's desk. She was a fierce advocate for getting this done, just like
00:52:54with everything Senator Feinstein put on her agenda. So I just want everyone to know that's
00:52:59in this bill, and I'm honored that it is, and I want to thank Senator Merkley, Senator Murkowski
00:53:04for including it. With that, I will turn it over to Senator Merkley. Thank you very much, Chair
00:53:08Murray and Vice Chair Collins, and thank you for that tribute to Senator Feinstein. It's hard to
00:53:13believe that here we are for the first time in 25 years without Senator Feinstein sitting
00:53:19alongside us. She did love the Joshua Tree National Park, and so renaming the visitor center in her
00:53:26honor is completely appropriate, and for anyone who hasn't visited that park, it's a very cool place
00:53:32to go. As my predecessor on this committee, she worked hard to protect and preserve all of our
00:53:39special places, and we're continuing that legacy today with this bill. Together with Ranking Member
00:53:46Murkowski, I'm proud to present this bipartisan bill to the committee. We certainly have many
00:53:51challenges regarding our public lands. This past Sunday, July 21st, was the hottest day in human
00:53:58history, following the hottest year in human history, and this extreme climate chaos threatens
00:54:04everything that we are charged with protecting, air quality, drinking water, wildlife, forests,
00:54:10ecosystems. As we sit here at this moment in Oregon, 800,000 acres are ablaze.
00:54:20It's more than every other state in the country combined. This bill prioritizes fighting wildfires.
00:54:28It permanently increases wildfire pay, or firefighter pay, so that the brave men and
00:54:35women who risk their lives to protect our communities and our natural resources can count
00:54:39on that well-deserved pay increase to continue year after year. It fully funds federal wildfire
00:54:44suppression and preparedness needs at $6.1 billion, including $2.75 billion for the reserve fund.
00:54:50We must not allow the situation where we run out of funds to fight the fires. It also includes
00:54:57about half a billion dollars to reduce hazardous fuels. Many of us would love to see a lot more done
00:55:04up front to make our forests more fire resilient so the fires are not nearly as bad as they are.
00:55:11We need to keep expanding that strategy, that effort, and it includes funds for wildfire smoke
00:55:16mitigation grants. Wildfire smoke is now an increasing challenge. Ranking member Murkowski
00:55:23and I have also made targeted increases to address other issues, including funding to staff new Indian
00:55:29health service facilities, funding for tribal public safety and justice, an increase for the National
00:55:36Park Service to retain staff and hire 450 new park rangers. We have been grossly understaffed
00:55:43in our National Park Service. And funding to address the infrastructure and employee housing
00:55:48crisis in the parks, forests, wildlife, refuges, and other federal lands. As the price of housing
00:55:53has gone up and the available housing for employees has disappeared, it's been a real challenge.
00:55:59There are modest increases for clean air programs, for toxic chemical reviews, and full funding for
00:56:04payment in lieu of taxes. I am disappointed that the bill we have today continues to hold some
00:56:11harmful legacy policy writers, which I don't believe belong in this bill, but we are in the
00:56:17challenge of having a bipartisan process going forward and that is part of the deal that we have
00:56:23made. I'll continue to work every year to find an opportunity to put science back in charge.
00:56:30Before I close, a huge thank you to my team and to Senator Murkowski's team for working in such a
00:56:36bipartisan spirit on such a challenging bill. On my team, Melissa Zimmerman, Ryan Hunt, Anthony
00:56:42Cedillo, and Rishi Sagal, they have done incredible work. And on Senator Murkowski's team,
00:56:49Emi Lasofsky and Lucas Agnew. Thank you directly to my partner in this, Senator Murkowski. It's
00:56:58our fourth year working together on this subcommittee and there are a lot of complicated
00:57:03issues to be worked through in the process, so I've really appreciated that bipartisan spirit.
00:57:09I now yield back to the chair. Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Madam Chairman, and thank you to
00:57:16to you, Senator Merkley, and your team for the working relationship that we have established.
00:57:22I want to recognize and thank the chair and the ranking member for your work in bringing us here
00:57:28today to really have actual input on bills is so meaningful. It's so important. It benefits
00:57:38the appropriations process, but also the constituents we serve, so thank you for
00:57:43pushing us to get to this place. Every bill has its unique challenges. We all recognize that,
00:57:52and certainly the Interior and Environment Bill is no different, but I really think that working
00:57:58with Chairman Merkley here, we have struck the right balance on energy development, parks,
00:58:04conservation, and the arts, while also meeting wildland fire and tribal trust responsibilities.
00:58:10I think we have worked to find the right funding balance for the many needs that we have.
00:58:16With the emergency funding that's provided, I'm happy to report that the bill does fully fund
00:58:21wildland fire preparedness and the suppression needs. I think we all recognize that this must
00:58:27be a priority. We also fully support our wildland firefighters and ensure that they receive the pay
00:58:33that they deserve and make investments in wellness programs and firefighter housing,
00:58:40which are critical to our federal firefighter retention efforts. We also fully fund our
00:58:47responsibility for tribal lease payments and contract support costs. This has been a tough
00:58:53part of our budget. We saw with the recent Supreme Court decision nearly three-quarters
00:58:59of a billion dollars in increased costs resulting from that, but we fulfill our obligation there
00:59:06with regards to the 105L leases and our contract supports. As the Chairman noted, we also fully
00:59:13fund PILT that so many of our public lands counties rely on, water infrastructure programs,
00:59:21cleanup and remediation programs at the EPA are maintained or increased. We also aid communities
00:59:28in achieving and delivering cleaner air, cleaner water, and cleaner lands.
00:59:34Our work is far from over on this. I think we all recognize that, but I do appreciate the
00:59:40committee's leadership for getting us to where we are today. Throughout the remainder of this year,
00:59:45I'm looking forward to working with all of my colleagues in the House and the Senate to work
00:59:49to deliver a strong bill. I also want to recognize the hard work of the staffs. They really do put in
00:59:56incredible effort on the majority staff. It's Melissa, Ryan, Anthony, Rishi, and Angela. I also
01:00:03want to recognize my Chief Clerk, Emmy Lebowski, and Lucas Agnew, and to recognize that Lucas
01:00:10is going to be retiring, leaving the Interior Staff after nine years on the Appropriations
01:00:16Committee. So we're losing a great resource, and Lucas, I just want to thank you for all the work
01:00:22that you have done. Thank you to my colleagues. Thank you to the Chair. Thank you. Senator Merkley,
01:00:35you have a manager's package. Yes, Madam Chair, I sure do, and this has been put together with the
01:00:44approval being of members on both sides. It's been completely cleared, and I move to approve
01:00:50this package. Are there any objections? Seeing none, the package is approved. Are there any
01:00:56members wishing to speak or offer an amendment? Yes, Madam Chair. Senator Merkley. Madam Chair,
01:01:01I'd like to offer an amendment to reclassify the Tribal Sovereignty Payments, the mandatory side
01:01:06of the budget, on behalf of myself and co-sponsors. Those co-sponsors include Chair Murray, the
01:01:12Chairman of the Indian Affairs Committee, Chairman Schatz, and Senators Tester, Sinema, Heinrich,
01:01:16Durbin, Coons, Baldwin, Van Hollen, Peter, Shaheen, and Reed. I understand that there's some need here
01:01:23to make folks familiar with the issue, but essentially it boils down to this. The courts
01:01:29have weighed in and said that these payments are required by law, and just a recent court decision
01:01:37increased the amount significantly. The cost charged to Interior Bill is $2.8 billion, an
01:01:44increase of $1.2 billion to the enacted level, and under the budget caps, that's a very, very
01:01:49significant factor and affecting really all of the other things that we're responsible for in the
01:01:55context of public lands. So it makes a lot of sense, since the courts have said this has to be mandatory,
01:02:01to in fact have it be on the mandatory side. The amendment says we should start that process in
01:02:07FY26, and therefore we can plan for it. It also provides adjustments that any budget camps and
01:02:15caps in fiscal 26 would be reduced proportionally, so this is not a gimmick to increase the overall
01:02:23money in the future. There would be no windfall savings, although as invested as I am in
01:02:30Interior, I wouldn't mind some windfall savings to be invested more into our public lands.
01:02:35So that's the story, and that's why I think we should do this. We do not have the support today
01:02:40to do this. I want to continue to raise the issue, have people familiar with the issue, because it
01:02:46will affect the Interior budget for a long time to come, and so with that I will withdraw,
01:02:52but I really thank all the co-sponsors who have weighed in and said what the courts have said is
01:02:56mandatory, needs to be mandatory, so we can focus on the discretionary programs that are so important
01:03:02across our nation. Senator Merkley, before you withdraw, I believe there's several members who
01:03:06want to speak on this amendment. I withdraw my withdrawal. Madam Chairman. Senator Murkowski.
01:03:14Thank you, Madam Chairman. To Chairman Merkley here, know that I absolutely appreciate your
01:03:23remarks. I agree and understand that as far as meeting our obligation to fully fund contract
01:03:31support costs and the tribal lease payments, this is not a negotiable thing.
01:03:36The courts have clearly said that. These payments are critical to the delivery of services across
01:03:44Indian country. We recognize that. You and I know how the demands on these accounts have just
01:03:50continued to grow and grow, and it becomes an increasingly difficult part of our budget as we
01:03:55try to reconcile things, so it's something that we absolutely need to work through this process,
01:04:02and doing it together I think is going to be important, so you've got me on your side to try
01:04:09to advance this as we move forward. I appreciate your comments, and I'm hoping that maybe we can
01:04:17have enough discussion of this to think about whether it might be an opportunity
01:04:22if there is a conference on the FY25 bill. Are there any other members who want to wish us to
01:04:27speak on this amendment? If not, I just want to say, Chair Merkley, thank you for your leadership
01:04:33on this. Earlier this year, she stated the Supreme Court passed down a very important ruling for
01:04:38tribal self-determination and sovereignty, one that really underscored the work that remains
01:04:43if we're serious about our commitments to tribes across the nation. I absolutely agree with my
01:04:49colleagues who believe that keeping our word to our tribes is not optional, and I support the effort
01:04:55to make tribal sovereignty payments mandatory, as Senator Merkley and President Biden and others
01:05:01have suggested, so we can make certain our commitment to our tribes is ironclad, but we do
01:05:06need bipartisan support to make that happen. We're not quite there yet, and I know there's members on
01:05:11both sides who feel strongly about standing with our tribal communities, so I will continue to
01:05:17work with you, Senator Merkley, and I'm really glad that you're championing this effort. Thank you.
01:05:22With that, are there any other members who wish to offer an amendment or speak on the bill?
01:05:27Madam Chair? Senator Capitone? Yes, thank you, Madam Chair, and I want to thank the Chair and
01:05:33Ranking Member of the Subcommittee. In particular, I would like to thank your staff, Senator Murkowski,
01:05:37and working MA and Lucas, as he's on his way out, for, no, Lucas is right, yes, just Lucas,
01:05:45not, I mean, we're not, anyway, for their work on this bill. I know we are working under significant
01:05:50constraints, but there's one area I want to highlight that I know is of concern. We need
01:05:54more oversight over the $41 billion that are being spent in the Inflation Reduction Act Fund, which
01:06:00the EPA is distributing. The IRA provided no resources to the EPA Inspector General to oversee
01:06:06this funding, and we keep discovering more and more federal funds that are going to radical groups
01:06:11that support anti-American, anti-police, and anti-Semitic causes, which have nothing to do
01:06:16with protecting the environment. I appreciate the funds provided for the IG in this bill,
01:06:20and I just want this Committee to know that even more needs to be done. There is no,
01:06:26there is so much more that needs to be investigated here. I'm offering this amendment that would
01:06:30provide $15 million for the EPA Inspector General to investigate the distribution of these funds,
01:06:36but I will withdraw the amendment, knowing the fiscal constraints that we are under,
01:06:41but I want to be able to work with the leadership of the Subcommittee, Senators
01:06:46Merkley and Murkowski, on this dire need for oversight as the process moves along.
01:06:52Thank you, and Senator Merkley, it is in order for you to withdraw your amendment.
01:06:57My amendment now is withdrawn.
01:07:01Senator Murkowski. Madam Chair, I just want to comment to Senator Capito here. I, too, share
01:07:07the concern about the oversight, significant, significant resources that are provided to the
01:07:16EPA through the Inflation Reduction Act. As you know, we do have funding, $5 million,
01:07:27in the budget here for the EPA Inspector General to expand their oversight of this. I agree with
01:07:33you. I think that there needs to be additional, but know that we're certainly going to be working
01:07:39to provide proper oversight of the EPA's IRA funding. It is an issue I think that we're all
01:07:48focused on, so we'll be looking at it with you. Thank you. Are there any other members who wish
01:07:53to speak on this amendment? And you withdrew? My amendment. Thank you very much. Are there
01:08:00any other amendments or members who wish to speak on this? Senator Tester. I want to thank the
01:08:05committee for moving forth some good bipartisan appropriation bills to the floor, and I very much
01:08:12appreciate the leadership of Chair Murray and Vice Chair Collins. I also appreciate the leadership of
01:08:19Chair Merkley and Ranking Member Murkowski on the Interior Bill. Many of us have been here for a bit,
01:08:25can remember damn near every appropriation bill would pass except for the Interior Bill,
01:08:31and so I want to thank you two for getting to yes and striking a balance
01:08:36on difficult issues, and I very much appreciate that. I want to raise an issue in front of this
01:08:42committee right now that directly affects Montana, directly affects the country, and it's about
01:08:48the administration's recent EPA mask rule, and this isn't about whether you like the mask rule
01:08:54or don't like the mask rule. This is about an EPA's acknowledgement that one of the only power
01:09:01plants this affects is in Coast Strip, Montana. This isn't the way we should be making rules.
01:09:08This power plant has been around for a while. It is scheduled to be phased out over the next decade.
01:09:14The investment that would be required to update the controls to meet this rule would be hundreds
01:09:18of millions of dollars. Without the investment, the plant would be required to shut down by 2028.
01:09:26I have made it clear both the President and Administrator Reagan that it is not acceptable
01:09:30that the federal government issue a rule that targets retiring this plant without providing
01:09:36a reasonable timeline to replace the jobs and the energy production lost. Everybody knows that in my
01:09:44real life, I'm a farmer. Clean air and clean water are critical to me to be able to raise a crop,
01:09:50and it's also critical for everybody in this country. Clean air and clean water is critical
01:09:55for our health and for our economy, but rules made in Washington, D.C. need to be rooted in reality
01:10:01and common sense, and what I've heard from the folks of my state is that the mask rule simply
01:10:07makes no sense under these circumstances, and I agree. We don't have a solution for the coal strip
01:10:14in this bill today. I would look forward to finding a bipartisan path forward that resolves
01:10:19this issue while maintaining our clean air and clean water. That's where we work in Montana,
01:10:25and that's where we should work in the United States Senate. Thank you, Madam Chair.
01:10:31Thank you, Senator Tester. Are there any other members who wish to comment on this bill?
01:10:35Seeing none, this bill will be reported as amended. At this time, we will turn to the T-HUD bill.
01:10:49And I want to thank Senator Schatz and Senator Hyde-Smith and all of your staff for working
01:10:54on this really important bill. The T-HUD bill addresses many of our families' businesses
01:11:00and communities across the country, including making sure our families are not kicked out of
01:11:05their homes, produces more affordable housing, keeps the commuters who travel our nation each
01:11:11day safe, and rebuilds America's roads and bridges and a lot more. These investments in our
01:11:17transportation infrastructure will create jobs and help strengthen our nation's economic
01:11:22competitiveness for decades to come, and housing assistance and homeless interventions are a
01:11:28lifeline for millions of families that are one paycheck away from a street. I also want to thank
01:11:33Chairman Schatz and Ranking Member Hyde-Smith for the new steps this bill takes to recognize the
01:11:38connections between health outcomes and housing and the needs of our seniors who are experiencing
01:11:44homelessness. So with that, I will turn it over to you, Senator Schatz.
01:11:50Thank you very much, Chair Murray and Vice Chair Collins, for your leadership and your commitment
01:11:53to return this committee to the regular order and preserve our long-standing tradition of
01:11:58bipartisanship. It's a tradition that Vice Chair Hyde-Smith and I strongly share and have carried
01:12:04forward in this Senate mark for our bill. It is a strong bipartisan bill under the circumstances,
01:12:10and I'm very proud of the investments that we're able to make. Overall, this bill provides $98.7
01:12:15billion in total discretionary funding, of which $28.5 billion is for the Department of
01:12:21Transportation, $78.2 billion is for programmatic spending at the Department of Housing and Urban
01:12:27Development, and $453 million is for the seven independent agencies funded under this act. For
01:12:34DOT, our agreement is keenly focused on aviation safety. We've targeted funding to address our
01:12:40aging facilities and equipment and add more air traffic controllers to meet the demands of
01:12:45commercial air carriers safely, certification specialists to process the vast volume of
01:12:51innovations in manufacturing, and inspectors to oversee aircraft production and air carrier
01:12:56maintenance. Ensuring the safety of the most complex aviation system in the world and maintaining its
01:13:0124-7 operations is challenging. We do what we can with the resources we have, but Congress
01:13:07needs to think more broadly about the budget's mandatory proposal, because as it stands,
01:13:15with the caps, it'll take a century, a century before we can recapitalize all of FAA's aging
01:13:21infrastructure. Addressing our national housing shortage is equally difficult. The current housing
01:13:26shortage did not happen overnight. It is a product of decades and decades of broken and discriminatory
01:13:32housing policies that have made it all but impossible to build the housing that we need.
01:13:38As a result, home ownership is increasingly out of reach for more and more people. Rent skyrockets,
01:13:43and homelessness is setting grim records. The key solution here is pretty clear. We need to make it
01:13:48easier for people to build housing. This bill makes important investments to do just that.
01:13:54We've included $1.425 billion in funding for the home program, $3.3 billion for CDBG formula grants,
01:14:02$1.5 billion for native housing, $100 million for new permanent supportive housing, $115 million
01:14:10for new elderly housing construction, and $100 million for the Pathways to Removing
01:14:15Obstacles to Housing program. To make sure we don't lose ground, this bill reaffirms our
01:14:20long-standing commitment to preserve assistance for the nearly 10 million people across the country
01:14:25who rely on HUD's programs. The bill also makes new investments to rehabilitate and preserve
01:14:32distressed properties in the existing housing stock. Before I close, I want to thank the T-HUD
01:14:37staff who've worked tirelessly to produce the best possible bill that addresses the various
01:14:42challenges that we face. They include Mike Clark, Jason Woolwine, Cameron O'Brien, Rajat Mathur,
01:14:50Jessica Sun, Kelsey Daniels, Amanda Cronenberger, and Dabney Haag. All of you work incredibly hard
01:14:57and under very difficult circumstances. Two final things. I do want to recognize my vice chair. It's
01:15:03been an incredibly pleasant and constructive partnership. I very much enjoy working with you,
01:15:09and I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that all of us need to pass a disaster supplemental. I know
01:15:15this is not on the T-HUD topic, but in the interest of time, I wanted to flag that the people of Maui,
01:15:20the people of Texas, the people of Vermont, the people of California, the people of Mississippi,
01:15:24and many other states are waiting for the federal government to fulfill its obligation
01:15:30in the wake of disasters. Thank you, Chair. Senator Heidsman.
01:15:37Thank you, Madam Chairman, and thank you, Chairman Schatz, as well. I appreciate the
01:15:43collaborative approach that you and your team throughout this bill writing process, again,
01:15:48have displayed. I also want to thank Chairman Murray and Vice Chair Collins for their strong
01:15:54leadership of this committee, continuing to keep us on track and on schedule as we work to fulfill
01:16:00one of Congress's most fundamental responsibilities. The Fiscal Year 2025 Transportation,
01:16:07Housing, and Urban Development and Related Agencies Appropriations Bill is a fiscally
01:16:12responsible bill that adheres to the budgetary constraints that this committee must operate
01:16:18within. The bill includes $28.5 billion for the Department of Transportation, $79.8 billion for HUD,
01:16:28and $454 million for independent agencies, including the National Transportation Safety Board
01:16:35and the Federal Maritime Commission. Accounting for the scoring adjustments of last year's
01:16:42Schumer-Johnson budget deal, the funding level provided by this bill is relatively flat when
01:16:47compared to the Fiscal Year 2024 enacted level. The bill achieves this cut without sacrificing
01:16:54transportation safety or critical rental assistance programs. For example, the bill
01:17:01includes increases for an additional 2,000 air traffic controllers to address significant delays
01:17:08in safety incidences in the National Airspace System. Funding is also included for additional
01:17:15aviation safety inspectors to oversee aviation manufacturing deficiencies, as well as additional
01:17:21rail safety inspectors. The bill continues key investments to improve our nation's transportation
01:17:27infrastructure, including $550 million for the RAISE program, $300 million for the rail
01:17:35infrastructure and safety grants, and $200 million for port infrastructure development grants.
01:17:42At the same time, the bill continues to fully fund existing rental assistance for more than
01:17:474.5 million households to ensure that seniors, the disabled, and working families who currently
01:17:54receive such assistance are not put at risk of homelessness. Additional investments are made to
01:18:01support ending veteran and youth homelessness, as well as to develop more permanent supportive
01:18:07housing. The bill also maintains level funding for $3.3 billion for the CDBG program, which has
01:18:16very strong bipartisan support and helps state and local governments promote economic development
01:18:21and job creation. Given the broad range of programs and activities funded by this bill,
01:18:28the subcommittee received and carefully considered thousands of member requests from more than 75
01:18:35senators. The result is a thoughtfully crafted appropriations bill that is responsible for
01:18:41taxpayer dollars and responsive to critical needs. I would again like to thank Chairman Schatz and his
01:18:48staff for all their hard work in helping us get to this point, specifically the clerk Dabney Haag,
01:18:56Rojat Mathur, Jessica Sun, Kelsey Daniels, and Amanda Cronenberger. I would also like to thank
01:19:06my team, the clerk Mike Clark, Jason Woolwine, and Cam O'Brien, as well as the GPO staff who
01:19:14were instrumental in assisting our teams with this bill production. A special thanks to Daniel
01:19:20Ulmer and Kendall Moore for all their hard work, and Katie Cooper and Dr. Bailey Archie. I would
01:19:27also like to thank several of the ones that have not been mentioned that certainly put in a lot of
01:19:33hours. I urge my colleagues to join me in supporting the fiscal year 2025 Transportation, Housing, and
01:19:40Urban Development and Related Agencies Appropriations Bill. Again, thank you, Chair Murray and Vice Chair
01:19:46Collins for convening today's markup and for your such conscious awareness of the time frame.
01:19:52Thank you. Senator Schatz, you have a manager's package.
01:19:57Madam Chair, the manager's package being distributed to each senator has been cleared
01:20:01on both sides, and I ask the committee to adopt the package by voice vote.
01:20:06Are there any objections? If not, it's adopted with that,
01:20:10um, it is agreed to. Sorry, it's done. Are there any members who have an amendment who wish to
01:20:17speak to the bill? Senator? Thank you, Madam Chairman. I have an amendment which I again will
01:20:23withdraw, but I do want to highlight an issue that is hitting all of our states, and there is language
01:20:29in this bill that addresses the August redistribution of the transportation funds, and I've
01:20:35talked with Chairman Schatz about this and also with Ranking Member Hyde-Smith. There is a band-aid
01:20:43fix in this bill for the August redistribution. This is when you have leftover dollars, and they
01:20:47ask to redistribute the dollars quickly, and it's hard for our state DOTs to make the adjustments.
01:20:56The U.S. DOT has had a very slow pace of getting the grant funding out the door of these smaller
01:21:02grant programs that were created in the IIJA. At a hearing last month, the FHWA administrator,
01:21:10Shailen Bott, said that he expects the amount of funds subject to August redistribution to
01:21:14continue to rise of unused obligation authority, so there are several reasons.
01:21:20There are too many new allocated programs with overlapping
01:21:24eligibilities, and these programs face implementation challenges. Many of them have
01:21:30expanded grant eligibility to new recipients that are not used to
01:21:34applying for these funds, and they are not prepared to comply with federal requirements.
01:21:38U.S. DOT is taking way too long to execute project grant agreements with grant awards,
01:21:44often has the agency layered on requirements that are not in law. Additionally, the TIFIA program,
01:21:51which is the incremental tax credit assistance, that is getting less attention. Why is that?
01:22:00All the money is free now with all the grant programs, so neither additional staff at U.S.
01:22:05DOT or an appropriations bill can really fix these underlying causes of the August redistribution
01:22:11problem. Several state DOTs have requested additional contract authority to help them
01:22:16absorb more of the unused obligation authority from the allocated programs.
01:22:20I'm working on a bill that responds to those requests. Chairman Schott says we will work
01:22:25together to see if we can find a fix for this, but it certainly doesn't allow our DOTs to do
01:22:33the best in terms of planning and using the existing resources to do the best by the states.
01:22:38I withdraw my amendment, but I did want to highlight the issue for those of you who are
01:22:41unfamiliar. Thank you. I wish to be recognized. Senator Moran.
01:22:50Senator Murray, thank you. I'm in the position of speaking about an
01:22:54amendment that I was unsuccessful in including in the bill.
01:22:58Senator Moran, could I just respond to Senator Capito?
01:23:00Absolutely. I yield to the senator from Hawaii.
01:23:02Senator Schott.
01:23:04I'll make it quick. We had a conversation on the phone, and I just wanted everybody to know that
01:23:09I'm serious. I think this is a real issue, and I want to work on it with Senator Capito and others.
01:23:15I will say that a lot of your state Department of Transportation directors
01:23:20do not like the kind of blunt force solution that was being considered,
01:23:26and so I think we're going to have to work with the Association of State Transportation Directors
01:23:30to find a solution, but you are absolutely right. With all of these sort of new programs and
01:23:34projects getting out, that we are having some difficulty in actually deploying the resources
01:23:38that we appropriated, and that's not an imaginary problem.
01:23:42Thank you. Thank you. Senator Moran.
01:23:45Thank you, Chairman. This is a topic in which I drafted and had an amendment drafted,
01:23:54but was unsuccessful under the onerous rules of you cannot legislate on an appropriation bill.
01:24:01I was shocked to receive that answer, significantly disappointed, and want to
01:24:06know what grudge somebody had against me, but there's an issue that I'm going to continue to
01:24:12raise. It really is an authorizing issue, but I was trying to solve more quickly, and that is the
01:24:18mortgage insurance program at the Department of Housing and Urban Development excludes critical
01:24:24access hospitals from being eligible by, I think, a technicality, and for most of us,
01:24:30those are the hospitals that have the most difficulty in borrowing money to build a new
01:24:35facility, and mortgage insurance would be a significant opportunity to assist them in expanding
01:24:41their capabilities in infrastructure, and I raise this topic in this room because I can't imagine
01:24:47there's not a senator sitting around this table who has a significant presence, who doesn't have a
01:24:52significant presence of critical access hospitals in their states, and I would welcome assistance
01:24:59and help support from my colleagues to see if I can get something moving through the authorizing
01:25:05committee of banking. So, thank you, Chairman.
01:25:09Are there any other senators who wish to speak or offer an amendment?
01:25:16If not, the bill is agreed to and will be reported as amended, and with that, we will turn to the
01:25:25Senate Foreign Operations and Related Programs Subcommittee, and I do really want to thank
01:25:31Senators Coon and Senator Graham and all of their staff for their work on this bill.
01:25:35At a moment that is really marked by conflict and urgent challenges across the globe, strong
01:25:41U.S. leadership could not be more important. That was why earlier this year I fought so hard
01:25:47alongside many here today on both sides of the aisle to make sure we finally passed a national
01:25:52security supplemental that supported our allies, strengthened our investments in the Indo-Pacific,
01:25:58and provided critical humanitarian aid to save lives caught in the middle of conflict.
01:26:02But these challenges and many others remain, and this bill reflects the need
01:26:07to maintain a strong U.S. presence. It includes investments that will make sure we continue
01:26:13leading on the world stage and keeping our country safe with every tool at our disposal.
01:26:18That means diplomacy and countering aggressive moves by the Chinese government. It means
01:26:23investing in global health and helping our partners stop health threats in their tracks
01:26:28before they pose a threat to our nation. It means investing in long-term U.S. and partner
01:26:34economic security and our partners' ability to defend their sovereignty, and it means support
01:26:39for humanitarian aid, disaster response, and international organizations that help prevent
01:26:45conflict and chaos. These are crucial investments now more than ever, so I really appreciate this
01:26:50committee's work on this. Senator Coons, I will turn it over to you. Thank you, Chair Murray and
01:26:55Vice Chair Collins, for your leadership of this committee. I am so pleased to bring to us the
01:27:00State and Foreign Operations Bill for markup. It is for FY25 a $61.6 billion bill, and I want to
01:27:08begin by thanking my Ranking Member, Senator Graham, and his very capable staff, Paul Grove,
01:27:13Adam Uzerski, Catherine Bowles, for their partnership in producing this genuinely bipartisan
01:27:18bill. I also want to begin by thanking my Clerk, Alex Carnes, and his talented team, Akali Faramund,
01:27:25Sarita Venka, and Drew Platt. We do genuinely work well together. I'd like to also acknowledge
01:27:31the General Publishing Office and Congressional Budget Office staff who play a critical
01:27:35role for all of us in getting our bills ready in time. Now, a brief word about this bill.
01:27:39We received input from more than 80 senators and hundreds of groups representing NGOs,
01:27:45faith organizations, diaspora communities, businesses. All of this country seems interested
01:27:51and concerned on how this committee advances U.S. foreign policy and values in this bill.
01:27:57Senator Graham and I and our staff work closely together to take all these views into account and
01:28:02to write a genuinely bipartisan bill. There is plenty we can and should agree on. We agree it's
01:28:08important we strengthen efforts to confront security threats from maligned state and non-state
01:28:13actors. We agree on the importance of maintaining a strong economy to withstand global shocks and
01:28:18unfair trade practices. We agree we need to employ a diplomatic and development workforce that enables
01:28:23our government and our businesses to compete. This bill advances these objectives and more. It
01:28:29increased funds for critical partners. It provides more support for Ukraine. It provides support in
01:28:35the Indo-Pacific. In fact, $1.9 billion for Indo-Pacific partners. It increased investments,
01:28:41as was referenced before, to counter the flow of fentanyl from $125 million to $170 million. It
01:28:46enhances economic and digital security to blunt the spread of economic coercion by the PRC. That's
01:28:53$685 million. Given the lateness of the hour, let me summarize. This bill meets our
01:29:00commitments to international organizations and financial institutions. It ensures we're at the
01:29:04table when critical issues are debated. It strengthens our efforts to sustain and advance
01:29:09development by focusing on localization, evaluation, and partnership. The outcome of any
01:29:14negotiation results in aspects that neither Senator Graham nor I would have drafted if we alone were
01:29:19in charge. That is the essence of bipartisanship. But this compromise, when enacted, will make the
01:29:25United States and our partners stronger, more secure, and more resilient. It's the first step
01:29:29in a long process. I look forward to working with members of this committee and with your leadership,
01:29:33Madam Chair, as we advance towards conference. Thank you. Thank you, Senator Graham.
01:29:40Thank you, Madam Chairman. I really enjoy working with Senator Coons and his staff.
01:29:45He's named them all. The absence of criticism is praise enough where I come from, so
01:29:50they all really do a good job. This bill has to be viewed in light of the times in which we live.
01:29:58Director Wray said, wherever he looks, there's blinking lights. Now, the last time we heard that
01:30:06was before 9-11. The Iran report that was a year late about their malign activities and their
01:30:14nuclear program is now available to the Senate. You need to read it. What they're up to is very
01:30:23dangerous. The facilities we have overseas are very much threatened by Iran initiatives
01:30:31in the region. Iran has contacted people to kill members of the Trump administration
01:30:41to get back for Soleimani. China is a threat, but Iran is on the prowl.
01:30:49To the State Department, you serve in some of the most dangerous places in the world.
01:30:55Some of you come from State Department families. Nobody here wants to send our soldiers into battle
01:31:02without the best equipment, the best intel, the best everything. Our State Department is in some
01:31:07of the most dangerous places where there really is no military to come over the hill.
01:31:14This $61 billion appropriations is 1% of the budget. To the people who want to just get rid
01:31:20of state, foreign ops, foreign aid, then you better buy more bullets, because if we don't
01:31:27stay engaged in the world, we're going to pay a heavy price. The border is broken, but that's not
01:31:34the only threat we face. There's $3.3 billion in here to help our friends in Israel who are under
01:31:42siege everywhere. There's money to continue the fight against AIDS. How far we've come
01:31:50in the last 40 years. Do you really want to stop now? Malaria, TB. Why do we invest in these things?
01:31:56Helping others is a good thing, and it does pay benefits when the people that you're helping will
01:32:02have a more favorable view towards you as a nation, and quite frankly, America needs all
01:32:07the friends we can get. We have enough enemies. I want to stay involved in this account as long
01:32:14as I'm in the Senate. I'm a pretty hawkish guy, but this account protects America as much as any
01:32:22battalion on the battlefield, and the people working in this space are heroes. They're at risk.
01:32:31You need to read this report on Iran. There's always ways to save money, and there's always
01:32:38cheap shots to take in politics. This account is where the rubber meets the road, and if we don't
01:32:45protect our people in harm's way, when an embassy is attacked and people are killed, the response is,
01:32:52what the hell happened? Well, I can tell you what happened. If you continue to deplete this account,
01:32:57there's going to be more likely an attack, not less. To my friends in the House,
01:33:02you've cut this account by 10 billion dollars.
01:33:07Really? And most of you who cut this account are pretty hawkish on the military side.
01:33:13It makes no sense, so I want to keep working with Senator Coons and everybody on this committee
01:33:21to tell our constituents, this 1% of the federal budget is used to protect those who are in harm's
01:33:28way, representing our interest in faraway places. It's used to help people save lives. If you're
01:33:34pro-life, this is really a good account. There have been a lot of people, a lot of mother-to-child
01:33:41age submission, transmission is way down because of what we've done in the PEPFAR space, and we
01:33:48extend PEPFAR for a year in this bill. So, count me in for having a strong military.
01:33:54Count me in for having strong soft power.
01:34:01Senator Coons, you have a manager's package. Madam Chair, I have a manager's package. I would
01:34:05like to offer an amendment. This manager's package has been distributed to every senator,
01:34:09and the provisions, I understand, have been cleared on both sides. This package of
01:34:13amendments improves the bill, and I ask the committee adopt this package by voice vote.
01:34:18Are there any objections? Without objections, the manager's package is agreed to. For the
01:34:24information of all senators, here is how I'm going to proceed. We're going to do three amendments.
01:34:31The first one will be Vice Chair Collins' amendment on UNRWA. The second one is Chair
01:34:35Coons' amendment on UNRWA, and then Senator Shaheen will offer her amendment on family planning,
01:34:40which is the same funding increase as we adopted by amendment last year. So, without any objection,
01:34:45I will move in that order. I do plan to offer an amendment for the purposes of discussion,
01:34:52but I will not be asking for a vote on it. Okay. Senator Collins. Thank you, Madam Chair.
01:34:58On behalf of Senator Graham and myself, I do have an amendment that I am offering
01:35:07that would simply extend the current prohibition against funding for UNRWA,
01:35:14the United Nations Relief and Works Agency, for the remainder of the fiscal year. It would
01:35:22otherwise expire in March of 2025. Yesterday, we had the opportunity to hear from the elected
01:35:32leader of Israel. In the Prime Minister's address, he described once again the horrific attacks
01:35:42of October 7th, during which Hamas terrorists murdered parents in front of their children,
01:35:51women were raped, hostages were taken, and babies were burned alive.
01:35:59In the aftermath of that terrible terrorist assault, the United States has come to Israel's
01:36:06aid, providing assistance through both an emergency supplemental, as well as our annual
01:36:13appropriations bills. As part of our legislative response to support our closest ally in the
01:36:20Middle East, and to the revelations that Hamas and other extremists infiltrated the United States,
01:36:29the United Nations Relief and Works Agency, the Senate on multiple occasions passed funding
01:36:37restrictions on UNRWA. The Fiscal Year 2024 Consolidated Appropriations Act includes a
01:36:46funding provision for any fiscal year 2025 funds or pending funds from previous fiscal years
01:36:55of 2025. And again, all my amendment does is simply extend the current provision
01:37:02through the remainder of this fiscal year. As recently as this month, Israel provided a list
01:37:11of 108 UNRWA staff who have been identified as members of Hamas or the Palestinian Islamic Jihad,
01:37:21and many more employees have been identified as having family members involved with Hamas.
01:37:31Second, an independent review of UNRWA in April, which was conducted by a former
01:37:39foreign minister of France, found serious neutrality violations, including anti-Semitic
01:37:47educational materials used in UNRWA schools that teach hate and incite violence. Third,
01:37:56UNRWA's Gaza headquarters sat right on top of a vast complex of computer servers
01:38:05that were the intelligence and communication center for Hamas. This hub ran on electricity
01:38:15from the United Nations power supply above it. It defies belief that UNRWA staff was unaware
01:38:25of this huge power drain. My colleagues, it simply would be irresponsible to allow our taxpayer
01:38:36dollars to fund this organization in light of what we have discovered and continue to discover
01:38:44about UNRWA. Now, let me be clear that this amendment is not about whether we should be
01:38:51providing humanitarian assistance to the people of Gaza. We have been doing that despite this
01:39:00funding restriction on UNRWA. There are other agencies, some of which we plussed up last year.
01:39:08I have supported and continue to support such assistance. What this amendment is about is simply
01:39:16whether U.S. taxpayer assistance should be provided to an organization with links to a
01:39:24terrorist organization, to Hamas and the Islamic Jihad that have attacked our ally Israel.
01:39:33And, I might add, are holding hostages that include American citizens. Thank you, Madam Chair.
01:39:43Madam Chair? Senator Coons? Do you want to speak? Madam Chair? Senator Coons?
01:39:54If I might speak to the amendment, Madam Chair. I respect the concerns raised by Senator Collins.
01:40:02I think it's important that we all put this in the context of where we are. It was just four
01:40:07months ago in the supplemental that we agreed to prohibit funding to UNRWA through March of 2025.
01:40:14There are a wide range of very strong views about UNRWA. I think we all recognize that UNRWA
01:40:23continues to face very troubling allegations about it and its connection to Hamas.
01:40:28The government of Israel also continues to allow them to operate because the reality is that the
01:40:34humanitarian situation, not just in Gaza, but also in Jordan, in Lebanon, in the West Bank,
01:40:39would become untenable without UNRWA's network. So, in my view, we know that the House SFOPS bill
01:40:48carries a prohibition. We will have this debate in conference. I recognize that part of my role
01:40:56here is to represent the views of my colleagues, many of whom believe that UNRWA is being falsely
01:41:02accused and undermined and that they can and should play a role in providing for humanitarian
01:41:07relief and support in other geographies like Jordan. And others would like us to work this
01:41:13through in conference. So, and I also want to thank those of my colleagues who are forbearing
01:41:19on other amendments that might have risked bringing down this bill altogether. It is my
01:41:25intention to vote no on Senator Collins' amendment and to offer a side-by-side that will be different
01:41:30by just a few months in terms of the duration of the prohibition. It continues it until March.
01:41:36It only allows any funding in the future if there are several key gates met that include
01:41:44consultation with Israel and implementation of policies and procedures to fully vet
01:41:49anyone who continues with UNRWA. Let me conclude with a brief comment, if I might.
01:41:54My colleague Senator Graham, as well as Senator Cardin and many others, have worked tirelessly
01:42:00to try and make possible a different future for Gaza, for Israel, and for the region by
01:42:05reconciling Saudi Arabia and Israel. We know that this prohibition in any event will be fully in
01:42:12place through at least March of next year and will likely extend beyond that. I hope we will
01:42:17recognize that we don't today know what the circumstances will be on the ground with regards
01:42:23to Israel and Gaza and I think all of us hope that we will see a ceasefire, a hostage return,
01:42:28and a path forward towards regional security. Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair. We will go
01:42:34back and forth with Senator Graham. Thank you. I will be, can you hear me? Yeah, there we go.
01:42:42I will be joining Senator Collins here. You know, I tried to express just a few minutes ago I really
01:42:48believe in this account, but one thing I believe in is not throwing good money after bad.
01:42:55The jury is in for me with UNRWA. They're dead to me. We've learned enough for me to never give
01:43:03these people another penny until they're completely changed. How much more do we need to know before
01:43:10we conclude this is a bad investment? Not only do we have 12 UNRWA employees on tape
01:43:19participating in the attack against Israel, there's all kind of evidence that may be up to 1400 people
01:43:26associated with Islamic jihad and Hamas. UNRWA is a UN agency that employs people on the ground.
01:43:32Well, the people they're employing on the ground are really radicalized. I mean, how did October
01:43:387th happen to begin with? When you teach your children math by saying if you had 10 Jews
01:43:45and you kill six, how many would you have left? That has to stop. There's just a mountain of
01:43:51evidence that this organization has been the problem, not the solution. And one thing about
01:43:56UNRWA, did anybody not notice the power bill kept going up? Literally, there are tunnels under the
01:44:06headquarters hooked up to the power cable running servers, weapons cachet. And I'm supposed to
01:44:18believe you didn't know? Have you heard anything below lately? This is ridiculous. So the House
01:44:27says no money all the way through September. I want to marry up with the House to give this
01:44:34bill some chance of passing. And I want to make a statement here about what I'm against.
01:44:39I'm against organizations that have been corrupted. This organization is corrupt to its core.
01:44:49And there will be a bipartisan vote here today that will echo what I'm saying. Let me say this
01:44:57about the Palestinian people. I hope and wish you a better life. That's going to come only after
01:45:02Moss is destroyed. And it will come from people in the region, not the American taxpayer. It will
01:45:09come when the school systems change. Deradicalization and demilitarization I think are non-negotiable for
01:45:15Israel and me. I say this without animosity toward the Palestinian people because I can only imagine
01:45:23what it's like to live with a bunch of terrorists every day, all day, for all of your life. I hope
01:45:30that will be over soon. But to the United Nations, you're making a guy like me's jobs impossible
01:45:39to keep this crap up. You need to look in the mirror at the United Nations and say,
01:45:45what did we let happen? And if you're not willing to end it, we will end it for you.
01:45:51So I respect Chris Coons as much as anybody in this body. I will respectfully vote against your
01:45:57alternative. Now's the time to send a clear signal to the United Nations. Clean your act up.
01:46:05Senator Van Hollen. Thank you. I wish my colleagues, I don't know if Senator Graham or
01:46:12Senator Collins have talked to Scott Anderson. Have you talked to him ever? Either of you? Scott
01:46:18Anderson is a 20-year U.S. Army vet. He's from Iowa. He is UNRWA's point person on the ground
01:46:28in Gaza. And anybody who suggests that Scott Anderson has anything to do with Hamas
01:46:37needs to apologize to him. I'm not suggesting that's what you are doing.
01:46:41But I would encourage all of you to talk to him. He's an Army vet guy. He believes in the United
01:46:51States. He also believes in human rights. He's UNRWA's point person in Gaza. Now look, anybody
01:47:00involved in the Hamas attacks on Israel needs to be held accountable and pay the consequences.
01:47:06And the allegations have been, I believe up to now, that there were 19
01:47:11members of UNRWA who were alleged to have been involved. And there's an ongoing investigation
01:47:18into that. But UNRWA in Gaza alone has 13,000 employees. So yes, punish anybody, whether it's 19,
01:47:31less or more, involved in Gaza. But the fact is UNRWA, with Scott Anderson, U.S. Army vets'
01:47:39oversight, is the one that's been providing humanitarian assistance in Gaza. And by the
01:47:45way, Ambassador Satterfield, who was our humanitarian coordinator, we asked him
01:47:51monthly about allegations that UNRWA provided humanitarian assistance had been diverted to Hamas.
01:47:58And he not only said he had no evidence during the time he was there of that, but the Israeli
01:48:03government had not brought him any examples of it. Maybe other entities involved in distribution
01:48:09of aid in Gaza were responsible for diversion of Hamas, but not UNRWA. This is according
01:48:16to David Satterfield, a well-respected ambassador. So this is why the other countries, all of our
01:48:24allies who also froze their contributions to UNRWA when those allegations were made, have decided
01:48:34to restore their contributions to UNRWA. Australia, Austria, Canada, Estonia, Finland, Germany,
01:48:41Iceland, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Lithuania, the Netherlands, Romania, Sweden, UK, EU,
01:48:49are my colleagues suggesting all of them are complicit with UNRWA in support of Hamas?
01:48:55That's nonsense. I encourage all my colleagues here to also go look at the U.S. Intelligence
01:49:00Report about the allegations of further Hamas infiltration of UNRWA. Go see it. It's in the
01:49:07Intelligence Committee room. It's been there for months. They do not hold up to the comments and
01:49:15allegations that you're all making. And now I would also ask my colleagues, you know, your
01:49:22amendment doesn't only apply to UNRWA operations in Gaza, the humanitarian operation. It implies
01:49:28to Jordan, too. I know that King Abdullah has talked to many of our colleagues. There are lots
01:49:35of schools in Jordan that receive UNRWA support. I haven't heard a single allegation about textbooks
01:49:43or anything that was going wrong in Jordan. And yet if you talk to King Abdullah and you
01:49:48look at what's happening in Jordan now, a close partner and ally, there's a huge amount of
01:49:54instability. He has been really asking repeatedly this body not to cut off UNRWA support for
01:50:03students in Jordan. UNRWA provides for some schooling. It also provides for health clinics.
01:50:10And so what this amendment does is say even though our close partner King Abdullah says
01:50:16that this is going to destabilize the situation in Jordan, there have been no allegations
01:50:20with respect to any of UNRWA's operations in Jordan, we're going to cut them off, too.
01:50:25Look, this has been a goal of Netanyahu's for a very long time, long before the war in Gaza.
01:50:34He didn't like the idea, doesn't like the idea that a UN entity was set up to address
01:50:39Palestinian refugees. So that's been a goal of the Israeli right for a long time, even though
01:50:43many in the Israeli military, as Senator Coons mentioned, recognize the importance for stability
01:50:50for UNRWA. So this is an amendment that unfortunately is not based in the facts
01:50:59with respect to many of the claims that were made. I will emphasize again,
01:51:06anybody involved in the horrific Hamas attacks should be prosecuted and held accountable.
01:51:13But let's not punish 2 million Palestinians in Gaza who have nothing to do with Hamas
01:51:22and an organization that includes over 13,000 just in Gaza alone on the horrific actions
01:51:29committed by a few. And so I would urge rejection of this amendment.
01:51:36Senator Graham.
01:51:37Thank you. You know, to my friend, I want to work to get Saudi and Israel to normalize and part of
01:51:44the deal would be a better future for the Palestinians. That's the only way you're going
01:51:48to defeat Hamas. I mean, I get all that. How many of you on this side have been told about
01:51:54UNRWA for years? Everybody, all of us have been told it's not a right wing thing.
01:52:00Most people in the conservative side of Israel, Minister Galant, have been warning us about UNRWA
01:52:08and I keep supporting the account up until now. Whatever oversight we have,
01:52:14Senator Van Hollen failed miserably. Under the headquarters, there are weapons caches,
01:52:23computer systems, and housing for Hamas commanders under the headquarters. So I would say whoever's
01:52:32involved in monitoring how UNRWA works, you failed. I had nothing against these people
01:52:39individually, but how much more evidence do we need to have before we say UNRWA is not a good
01:52:46deal for the American taxpayer? It's not a good deal for stability in the region. And I am just
01:52:54insistent that this organization on our side of the aisle is dead because of their actions,
01:53:05not because of false accusations. It's because of the people we have on tape.
01:53:11It's because of the family members we know associated
01:53:15through intelligence, not coming from Bibi, but coming from Assad. So I know how this vote's
01:53:22going to end, but I have no apologies to anybody for saying UNRWA should be defunded
01:53:31until it is fundamentally changed. Senator Merkley.
01:53:37Thank you, Madam Chair, and I associate my position with all the comments that
01:53:43Senator Van Hollen has put forward, and I so appreciate his intense immersion in this issue.
01:53:51I want to add this. Not only has everyone associated with Hamas been immediately expelled
01:53:58from UNRWA, but an intensive effort has been underway to make sure that anyone
01:54:06else who might be associated is removed. And yes, Hamas has put facilities under everywhere that
01:54:14they thought they could get away with it, very difficult under schools, under hospitals,
01:54:20and so forth. But here's the thing. The vast majority of the UNRWA workers
01:54:26are risking their lives every day, trying to negotiate the bombings, trying to deal with the
01:54:33outages of internet and telecom, to try to get essential humanitarian supplies to a population
01:54:41in dire need. They are doing this at great risk of their own lives. 168 employees of UNRWA have
01:54:52died in this Gazan battle. There is no alternative for others to be able to organize them to make
01:55:01these deliveries, to provide these services. We have an area of the world that is on the brink
01:55:08of famine. We have mothers who are unable to get to a hospital to deliver a child because of the
01:55:15lack of transportation and the lack of communications. We have the fact that
01:55:24children are having their limbs amputated without anesthesia. And those mothers, many have
01:55:31experienced miscarriages because of lack of nutrition. And when they deliver, are unable to
01:55:37breastfeed their children for lack of their own nutrition and the lack of food supplies.
01:55:45It's the UNRWA workers risking their lives every day to address these dire, dire circumstances.
01:55:54To undo the ability of UNRWA, the workers who are faithfully executing their humanitarian
01:56:00responsibilities, is to increase the deaths from malnutrition, increase the deaths from
01:56:09miscarriages and stillbirths and children dying after they're being born for lack of nutrition.
01:56:15To increase all of the challenges that the aid workers, the international aid workers who work
01:56:20with one non-profit of other, has said this is the worst condition to be found in the entire world.
01:56:26Worse than Somalia, worse than Sudan, worse than the front line of Ukraine, the worst in the world.
01:56:33So to all those UNRWA workers who are risking their lives every day to provide fundamental
01:56:39supplies in dire circumstances, we should not undermine them in this fashion.
01:56:46Madam Chair. Senator Collins. Madam Chair, given that the senator, my friend from Maryland,
01:56:54suggested that I misled the committee, gave inaccurate information, I feel compelled to
01:57:02respond. First of all, I've spent a great deal of time looking at the facts of this situation with
01:57:11UNRWA and it was a report, the Kalana report, that was performed not by me, not by the United States,
01:57:23but by a former foreign minister of France that found widespread violations of neutrality by
01:57:35UNRWA and particularly singled out what Senator Graham has talked about in the educational
01:57:44materials. Second, as a result of an agreement that the ranking member on the House side,
01:57:56Rosa DeLauro, and I worked out to compensate for defunding UNRWA, we did not, contrary to the
01:58:07implications of the comments I've just heard, take away humanitarian assistance. We put it
01:58:18in agencies that we could trust that were not infiltrated by Hamas. Specifically, we put the
01:58:28funding in the Migration and Refugee Assistance Program and the International Disaster Assistance
01:58:40Program. Senator Coons was involved in this as well. So the implication that if we stop funding,
01:58:50and we've already stopped funding, this is just an extension of the prohibition. The implication
01:58:59that that cuts off needed assistance is just not true because of the agreement that I reached with
01:59:09Democratic members in the House and Senator Coons to plus up the funding in these two accounts.
01:59:19I would hope that as we debate this issue, that we could stick to the facts. I realize that there
01:59:28are disagreements that are totally legitimate, but let's not misrepresent what was done.
01:59:38Madam Chair, I would encourage all my colleagues to read the Kelowna report. They
01:59:46dismissed some of the claims that people have made with respect to UNRWA. They did find
01:59:54that UNRWA required serious reforms in certain areas, something many of us have been pushing for
02:00:01for many years. And UNRWA has undertaken and accepted every single one of the recommendations
02:00:09made by that report. And so I agree, all of us as a committee, Republicans and Democrats,
02:00:15should work together to make sure that UNRWA follows through on the accountability measures
02:00:21identified in that report. But I do want to say that that report did not accept many of
02:00:28the other allegations with respect to UNRWA. And again, I would encourage my colleagues
02:00:35with the respect to the claim, and I'm not suggesting either of the senators here today
02:00:41made it, but essentially, if you listen to people like Prime Minister Netanyahu and others in that
02:00:46government, they're saying that UNRWA is a proxy of Hamas, which is just patently false. And again,
02:00:53go talk to Scott Anderson. The guy who's in charge of UNRWA Gaza is a 20-year army vet.
02:01:00I hope all of you will go talk to him and put these questions to him and put these questions
02:01:05directly to other folks in UNRWA and listen to their responses. I would also point out once
02:01:11again that with respect to Jordan, none of the assertions that are being made today with respect
02:01:21to Gaza, nobody's made any of these claims with respect to Jordan. And yet this does cut off
02:01:27funding for UNRWA in Jordan. And the final point I will make is I was glad we collectively provided
02:01:33one-time sizable amounts of humanitarian assistance to people in Gaza and elsewhere
02:01:40around the world. But that was one-time funding. This has been an ongoing effort.
02:01:45And the good news is all our allies, who also initially decided to stop funding UNRWA,
02:01:54they've looked at the facts. They're not pro-Hamas. They don't want to sanction anybody who had any
02:02:00to do with Hamas. But everybody from Germany to once more recently UK and all the other
02:02:06countries that I mentioned, for the reasons Senator Merkley mentioned with respect to
02:02:11humanitarian assistance in Gaza, they're supporting. They've decided to restore their funds.
02:02:17So again, I would urge my colleagues to work together on making sure UNRWA implements as it
02:02:23says it will the recommendations in that report, but not to defund. There are several senators I
02:02:30know have requested to be recognized. Senator Shaheen, do you still want to come? And Senator Murphy,
02:02:36I want to make sure you both have a chance. I just want to make sure I understand the
02:02:40the situation. Is it the intent of Senator Collins and Senator Graham to not provide funding for
02:02:52UNRWA in Jordan, even though that has not been implicated in any of the concerns with respect to
02:03:00the October 7th attacks? Well, first of all, we increased the funding for Jordan above the
02:03:09memorandum of understanding in this bill. So there is additional funding for Jordan in this bill.
02:03:20So would it not be affected then by your amendment? Can the chair and ranking member explain that to me?
02:03:30Yeah, I'm not going to give a dime to UNRWA anywhere. If we missed the tuttles in Gaza,
02:03:36what are we missing somewhere else? I think I'm probably one of the biggest advocates for Jordan
02:03:41on the committee. I'm always arguing with Chris to give him more money. What you're not getting here
02:03:47is that I don't care what they do in Germany. They didn't do anything they want to. I like
02:03:52Germany. I was stationed there four years. I am done with this. I mean, it is hard in the environment
02:03:59where so many problems at home talking about helping others. Well, you know what? We need to
02:04:03help others. I don't mind helping the Palestinians, but how can you say that is a good investment by
02:04:10the American people to give a penny to this group when they're on tape 12, 30, 40, who knows,
02:04:18actually participating in the attack? I've seen the literature they produce. Does anybody doubt
02:04:25the statement that under the headquarters in Gaza, there was weapons caches, housing for Hamas,
02:04:33and computer servers hooked up to the UN power supply? So, no money for UNRWA anywhere, period.
02:04:45Okay. I'm still confused, though, because I understand.
02:04:50Money for Jordan, yes, not for UNRWA.
02:04:51I understand what you're saying, but when you say money for Jordan, is the ability of that
02:04:57funding able to do the same humanitarian effort that UNRWA could do in Jordan,
02:05:04and why is the king so concerned about it if that's the case?
02:05:14They're taking the burden of refugees. It's a good discussion, but Jordan is really helpful.
02:05:20I mean, Syria is breaking down. They're surrounded, man, and the king of Jordan,
02:05:25he's a good investment, not perfect. So, yeah, but we're helping Jordan more, not less,
02:05:32Senator Shaheen, but I can't stress enough that the UNRWA infrastructure to me is tainted.
02:05:40Well, just to be clear, you're saying yes, and Senator Coons is saying no.
02:05:44Okay.
02:05:45If I can, what I'm trying to answer your question, if Vice Chair Collins' prohibition
02:05:53passes, does that prevent funding going to UNRWA in Jordan, as well as the West Bank,
02:05:59as well as Gaza, as well as Lebanon? Yes, it prevents my understanding,
02:06:03not to characterize someone else's, but I think Senator Graham was quite clear and forceful.
02:06:07No, I mean it to be. If it doesn't, I want it to.
02:06:10However, there is additional money going to the kingdom of Jordan, which they can choose
02:06:17to distribute to people in need within Jordan, but it cannot go to fund UNRWA's operations.
02:06:23It doesn't go through UNRWA, but it goes through these other programs, and it is higher
02:06:32than our agreement calls for with Jordan.
02:06:37Senator Murphy.
02:06:39Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Listen, I agree with Senator Van Hollen's characterization. I do
02:06:45think that the connection between UNRWA and Hamas has been at times dangerously overhyped,
02:06:51but I do just want to speak to the practical reality here. Everyone that I have talked to
02:06:58operating on the ground in Gaza, in Lebanon, in Jordan, tells me that overnight you cannot flip
02:07:05a switch and transfer over all of the humanitarian relief, all of the educational programming,
02:07:12all of the medical services, all of the nutritional services that UNRWA does today,
02:07:16by far the largest provider, to new organizations that may be funded under this bill.
02:07:23That is just the practical reality.
02:07:28The other practical reality is that right now Lebanon is in free fall.
02:07:34There is potential disintegration happening in Lebanon in the next 12 months.
02:07:38The King of Jordan is here telling us keep UNRWA alive because the stress of flows of
02:07:48Palestinian refugees and additional Syrian refugees and the potential bottoming out of
02:07:54social services, because you cannot replace it all in the next six months if we continue to
02:08:00defund UNRWA, is potentially catastrophic.
02:08:06Part of the reason I am so worried about this amendment is because, well, I understand the
02:08:11intent, take UNRWA out of the business of providing these services and put somebody
02:08:15else in charge, I think is belied by reality in terms of how the actual on the ground provision
02:08:23of aid works and the consequences of erasing these services, maybe in the short term,
02:08:30is potentially that Hamas and other terrorist groups gain additional foothold because they
02:08:36are the only ones that can provide the services in the absence of an interim provider and the
02:08:41potential continued political and social unraveling in very fragile places, Lebanon and Jordan in
02:08:50particular. So I think this provision is directly contrary to our interests in the region, trying
02:08:56to hold very fragile places together. I have not heard from providers on the ground or political
02:09:03leadership in those countries that you have the ability to replace those services immediately,
02:09:08and that's why I would respectfully oppose this amendment.
02:09:13Madam Chair, I think this amendment is really important. I think it's really important that
02:09:17it pass. I think if you want a bipartisan, certainly if you want support from our side of
02:09:23the aisle, I think we're going to have to continue to ensure that UNRWA does not get these funds.
02:09:29And so, I mean, I think you've got to look at it in that larger context. Now, if somebody's worried
02:09:33about Jordan not getting funding or some ally that should get funding, that's something that can be
02:09:39worked on, but I think it's very important that we continue. And again, this is a continuation of
02:09:46what's in place. By not having there, that changes it. And the way we approach these things is that,
02:09:53you know, we continue what we've agreed to have in place, not to make changes, and this would change it.
02:10:00Senator Collins, and then I will turn to Senator Coons for final comments,
02:10:03we will go to a vote on this amendment.
02:10:07Madam Chair, I just wanted to re-emphasize the point that Senator Hoeven just made.
02:10:13This is not new policy. This has been in effect during the previous administration for a period
02:10:23of time. So this is not, the switch has been turned off, to use your phrase, Senator Murphy,
02:10:31previously, and other agencies have picked up the job that were not corrupted by Hamas.
02:10:43In addition, this has been in effect since March, and so there has been transition time.
02:10:53Current law already extends it through March of next year. But again, in the previous administration,
02:11:02there was a funding prohibition for UNRWA. So other agencies, including, there's a broader
02:11:10UN Refugee Agency, as you know, that has capabilities, the American Red Cross,
02:11:18the two associations that I already mentioned that I worked with Congresswoman DeLauro on,
02:11:28the International Disaster Assistance Fund, the Migrant and Refugee Account.
02:11:37So there are other ways. I'm not trying to halt humanitarian assistance. I'm trying to halt
02:11:46the funding of an organization that is infiltrated by Hamas. And it wasn't I who discovered that the
02:12:00Hamas headquarters were underneath the UNRWA. The New York Times broke that story.
02:12:07There are numerous confirmations of what has happened. Thank you.
02:12:15Thank you. We will turn to Senator Coons for final remarks for the informational. Senators,
02:12:19we will vote on this amendment at the conclusion of his remarks.
02:12:23I'm intending to vote against Senator Collins' amendment and then to offer a side-by-side,
02:12:28which is closely related. It would continue the prohibition on U.S. taxpayer funding to UNRWA
02:12:35through March of 2025 and then say only if, and then there's a whole series of conditions,
02:12:42only if there's a review by an independent entity of UNRWA's implementation of its oversight,
02:12:47only if there's a complete and thorough vetting of all active UNRWA personnel in consultation with
02:12:52the government of Israel, only if there's an investigation of any derogatory information
02:12:56and action taken. And it includes saying funds should be made available to build the capacity of
02:13:02other implementers other than UNRWA for United States humanitarian aid. So that's the
02:13:09alternative amendment I'll offer immediately following a vote on this amendment by Senator
02:13:13Collins. And I appreciate the passion, the intensity, and the engagement of all my colleagues
02:13:18on this important humanitarian issue. Thank you, Madam Chair. The Senator has requested a vote on
02:13:23this amendment. The clerk will call the roll. Senator Durbin. No by proxy. No by proxy. Senator
02:13:31Reed. No by proxy. Senator Tester. Aye by proxy. Senator Shaheen. No. Senator Merkley. No. Senator
02:13:41Coons. No. Senator Schatz. No. Senator Baldwin. No. Senator Murphy. No. Senator Manchin. Aye by proxy.
02:13:50Senator Van Hollen. No. Senator Heinrich. No. Senator Peters. No. Senator Sinema. Aye. Senator Collins. Aye.
02:14:00Senator McConnell. Aye by proxy. Senator Murkowski. Aye by proxy. Senator Graham. Aye. Senator Moran. Aye.
02:14:09Senator Hoeven. Aye. Senator Bozeman. Aye. Senator Capito. Aye by proxy. Senator Kennedy. Aye by proxy.
02:14:17Senator Hyde-Smith. Aye by proxy. Senator Hagerty. Aye by proxy. Senator Britt. Aye by proxy. Senator Rubio.
02:14:25Aye by proxy. Senator Fischer. Aye by proxy. And Senator Murray. No.
02:14:42On this amendment, there are 17 ayes, 12 nays. The amendment is agreed to. Senator Coons,
02:14:47you're recognized to offer an amendment. Thank you, Madam Chair. As I previously spoke to, I offer an
02:14:52amendment entitled prohibition on funding for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency
02:14:56that preserves the current prohibition through March of 25, 2025 and only permits any future
02:15:03funding after a whole series of conditions and accountability measures I have just described
02:15:09are undertaken. It requires a certification by the president that those certifications have
02:15:15been completed. I ask for a roll call vote. Question. Question on the amendment. How does
02:15:21that affect the amendment that was just passed? Both amendments. And maybe the sponsors of the
02:15:29amendment of the Collins-Graham amendment. How would this amendment offered by Senator Coons
02:15:37affect the amendment we just passed? So what I'm trying to do, I'm trying to be very honest with
02:15:41everybody. The UN needs to reevaluate what happened here. Why would you say if this, if that?
02:15:48No, the case is closed right now for me. I am trying to send a signal to the United Nations
02:15:55and other organizations, don't ever let this happen again. I'm not ever going to give a penny
02:16:01to UNRWA until you convince me that everybody that was in charge is fired.
02:16:09To the people, you know, I like Dave said, if it was your job to manage UNRWA, you failed.
02:16:15What are we doing here? We're trying to keep open a line to an organization that's completely
02:16:22tainted. Senator Shaheen, I admire you greatly. I don't mind helping people. I want to give money
02:16:29to other organizations who I don't think will build tunnels under the headquarters. You know,
02:16:37be complicit with this attack. UNRWA has blood on his hands. They're part of the problem,
02:16:44not the solution. I have no desire, zero desire, to help UNRWA. You can't convince me they've
02:16:53changed. Nothing's changed that I know of, and no ifs, ands, or buts about UNRWA. This to me
02:17:00would be a mistake, Senator Coons, to say there's no accountability in Washington. There's going to
02:17:06be some accountability here, so I want to make sure we don't give a dime to this organization
02:17:12anytime soon. Senator, if I can just answer the question, my expectation is no matter what
02:17:20happens here today, the prohibition on funding of UNRWA remains, and this is a conferenceable item
02:17:26because there will be some small difference between the House and Senate versions of the
02:17:31prohibition. So the difference is does it go to March? Does it go to the next September?
02:17:36That amendment's already passed. Mine includes some language about future accountability and
02:17:41transparency measures and includes a provision saying that where possible and as appropriate,
02:17:47funds made available should be used to build the capacity of other implementers of United States
02:17:52humanitarian assistance. So there's a slight difference in language that would be subject to
02:17:56conference. To answer the senator's question, both amendments would be in the final bill should
02:18:02this amendment pass. Are there any senators who wish to speak to this amendment? If not, the
02:18:07senators requested a roll call vote. The clerk will call the roll. Senator Durbin? Aye by proxy.
02:18:15Senator Reed? Aye by proxy. Senator Tester? Aye by proxy. Senator Shaheen? Aye. Senator Merkley?
02:18:24Senator Coons? Aye. Senator Schatz? Senator Baldwin? Aye. Senator Murphy? Aye. Senator Manchin?
02:18:32Aye by proxy. Senator Van Hollen? Aye. Senator Heinrich? Aye. Senator Peters? Aye.
02:18:38Senator Sinema? Aye. Senator Collins? No. Senator McConnell? No by proxy. Senator Murkowski? No by
02:18:47proxy. Senator Graham? No. Senator Moran? No by proxy. Senator Hovind? No. Senator Bozeman? No.
02:18:55Senator Capito? No by proxy. Senator Kennedy? No by proxy. Senator Hyde-Smith? No by proxy.
02:19:02Senator Kennedy? No by proxy. Senator Hagerty? No by proxy. Senator Britt? No by proxy. Senator
02:19:10Rubio? No by proxy. Senator Fischer? No by proxy. Senator Murray? Aye.
02:19:25On this vote, there are 15 ayes, 14 nays. This amendment is agreed to.
02:19:30Senator Shaheen, I recognize you for an amendment. Thank you, Madam Chair. I'd like to call up my
02:19:34amendment to the State and Foreign Ops Bill to increase the bilateral family planning
02:19:39and the UN Population Fund accounts. In last year's omnibus,
02:19:46first of all, this amendment was approved by this committee last year, but in last year's
02:19:53omnibus, despite our efforts to increase funding for family planning, it was flat funding that came
02:20:01out of the negotiations. The important part about this funding is that it goes to support vulnerable
02:20:09women and families around the world, and despite the importance of that, these accounts have not
02:20:15been increased in 12 years. 214 million women and girls don't have a choice about pregnancy. They
02:20:24lack access to family planning. That gives them the agency to determine when to start a family.
02:20:31According to the Guttmacher Institute, an increase of just 10 million dollars in U.S.
02:20:36international family planning assistance means an additional 561,000 women and couples can be
02:20:43served. That would avert 189,000, I'm going to say that again, 189,000 unintended pregnancies
02:20:54and result in 61,000 fewer unsafe abortions. By passing this amendment with the numbers that
02:21:04are proposed, we will reach 1.4 million additional women and couples. We will avert 472,500
02:21:12unintended pregnancies and 152,500 unsafe abortions.
02:21:22I think that's why it's all the more important that this committee support an increase for family
02:21:26planning. An increase in family planning doesn't just increase the quality of a woman's life,
02:21:32it greatly improves the lives surrounding her, leading to increased quality of life and reductions
02:21:38in maternal and child mortality. And with that, Madam Chair, let me just urge my colleagues to
02:21:45support this amendment. Is there anyone else who wishes to speak on this amendment?
02:21:53We had this debate pretty well over here. Bottom line is this account being plussed up will create
02:22:01not only a problem with the House, but a lot of us over here. I try to be accommodating Senator
02:22:08Coons the best I can to keep these things static. Increasing is just going to throw everything in a
02:22:15ditch. I'm still going to vote for the bill. I know the amendment will pass. I know how the outcome
02:22:20of this amendment will be. I understand politics for both sides. But to my colleagues here, this
02:22:25bill is very important. Let's make sure going forward we preserve it and make sure that we
02:22:35all can play base politics. We can, you can. I just really worry the times in which we live.
02:22:42We don't want to jeopardize this account because people serving overseas are under threat. You need
02:22:48to read the Iran report, what they're up to regarding our interest in the Mideast.
02:22:54We're living on borrowed time if we don't increase our security footprint. So with all due respect,
02:23:00Senator Sheen, I will oppose this understanding the consequence to the bill, but still support
02:23:06the bill even if the amendment passes, realizing it will not make it through the House.
02:23:12Any other senator wish to speak on this amendment? Senator Sheen? I would just like to offer a final
02:23:17comment because I appreciate what you're saying. But just as you were making the argument that
02:23:24facts should prevail when we're talking about UNRWA, facts should prevail when we're talking
02:23:29about women and their access to the ability to determine their own families. This is not
02:23:35about abortion. If you don't like abortion, you should support this amendment because it would
02:23:40avert 189,000 unintended pregnancies. There would be 61,000 fewer unsafe abortions. This is about
02:23:50protecting women and their children. And so I understand what you're saying, Senator Graham,
02:23:56but sadly the debate around abortion has morphed into a debate around a whole lot of other issues
02:24:04that affect women and families. And this bill is an effort to try and ensure that the poorest
02:24:14women with the least opportunities have access to the same health care for their families
02:24:22that others have in the developing world, developed world. So I hope people will support this.
02:24:30Thank you. The senators requested a roll call vote. Clerk, call the roll. Senator Durbin? Aye by proxy.
02:24:36Senator Reed? Aye by proxy. Senator Tester? Aye by proxy. Senator Shaheen? Aye. Senator Merkley?
02:24:44Senator Coon? Aye. Senator Schatz? Aye. Senator Baldwin? Aye. Senator Murphy? Aye. Senator Manchin? No by proxy.
02:24:54Senator Van Hollen? Aye. Senator Heinrich? Aye. Senator Peters? Aye. Senator Sinema? Aye. Senator Collins? Aye.
02:25:03Senator McConnell? No by proxy. Senator Murkowski? Aye by proxy. Senator Graham? No. Senator Moran?
02:25:12No by proxy. Senator Hoeven? No by proxy. Senator Bozeman? No by proxy. Senator Kavanagh? No by proxy.
02:25:19Senator Kennedy? No by proxy. Senator Heitzman? No by proxy. Senator Hagerty? No by proxy.
02:25:25Senator Britt? No by proxy. Senator Rubio? No by proxy. Senator Fisher? No by proxy. And Senator Murray? Aye.
02:25:32The amendment is 16 ayes, 13 nays. The amendment is agreed to. Are there any other amendments that members wish to offer? Senator Van Hollen.
02:25:49Thank you Madam Chair and I will just read this amendment to my colleagues. I'm not going to call
02:25:56for a vote on it, but I heard Senator Graham say that he wanted normalization of relations
02:26:03between Saudi Arabia and Israel. So do I. He also I think recognizes that Saudi Arabia has made clear
02:26:11that if we want to have long-term peace and stability in the region, we're also going to have
02:26:16to allow self-determination for all the Palestinians who have nothing to do with Hamas. I just met with
02:26:22them last week and that's exactly what he said. We need to move in the direction of a two-state
02:26:29solution. I know you Senator Graham have said that in in the past. I don't know if that's still
02:26:35your view, but what's happening right now on the West Bank as the war in Gaza goes on
02:26:41is shutting the door every day on the possibility of a two-state solution. And that's because you've
02:26:47got these very right-wing extremist elements in the current Netanyahu government who are seizing
02:26:53this moment to expand outposts, illegal under Israeli law, expand settlements, and have been
02:27:00complicit in settler violence. And I do just want to briefly quote the major general, the Israeli
02:27:08major general, the head of the IDF in the West Bank. His name is General Fuchs. He just stepped
02:27:16down and he warned about exactly this happening on the West Bank. The rising settler violence
02:27:26and essentially indicating that the political forces within the Netanyahu government
02:27:32were allowing this to continue even though it undermined Israel's own security interests.
02:27:39So I hope our colleagues will look at this. You've got people like Smotrich who says things like
02:27:44there's no such thing as a Palestinian. He called for the elimination of Hawara, a Palestinian
02:27:49village, last year. This is the guy who's in charge. And the settler violence is destabilizing
02:27:59the West Bank in a big way, not only according to the Israeli general who just was responsible for
02:28:03this area, but our own General Fenzel. And I would encourage all of our colleagues to meet with him.
02:28:08He's a three-star. He's the head of the USCC there. So I hope there's an agreement. I'm not
02:28:15going to push for a vote today that no U.S. dollars should be complicit in any of these activities
02:28:23that promote extremist settler violence or the expansion of settlements. And I hope we can have
02:28:28that conversation. I will say now, Madam Chair, and I regret to say it because I thank you for
02:28:35your leadership and the Vice Chair and both the Chair of the subcommittee ranking members,
02:28:39but I want to be recorded no on the final bill. Senator has that right. He will be recorded no.
02:28:45Senator Murphy. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Thank you both for your work on this. I just want
02:28:51to mention two amendments that I'm not asking for a roll call vote, but I hope both majority
02:28:57minority will take a look at as we move this process forward. First is an idea, I think that's
02:29:05merits consideration. DoD has an unfunded priorities list. It's a way for us to sort of hear
02:29:12what we're not funding, what the consequences of not funding really important projects to the
02:29:16Department of Defense. I think it'd be really important for state to have the same list so that
02:29:20we could sort of have a better understanding of the consequences of what we're not able to fund
02:29:25through our allocations. I have an amendment to set that process in motion, and I hope there's
02:29:30something that the Chair and Vice Chair will look at. Second, I have an amendment that would
02:29:38repeal the impact of the Jackson-Vanik Amendment on Central Asian states. This was an appropriations
02:29:46right from 1974 that is sort of, I think, very unfairly and detrimentally harming our relationship
02:29:55with Central Asian countries. I think it's likely an appropriations issue. Finance has some concerns,
02:30:00and so we'll try to work through those concerns with them. So I look forward to talking to the
02:30:07full committee about both of those amendments. I'm going to join Senator Van Hollen in changing
02:30:11my vote to no on the underlying bill. I appreciate that we still have a lot of work to do as this
02:30:17moves to conference to try to address both Republican concerns and Democratic concerns
02:30:21about the way in which we provide humanitarian relief inside Gaza and in the Middle East,
02:30:26but for today I'll ask to be recorded as a no on the SBOP bill on final passage.
02:30:30Senator has that right. He will be recorded no. Senator Merkley.
02:30:34Thank you, Madam Chair. I also wish to be recorded as a no on the SBOP bill,
02:30:39but I also wanted to mention an amendment that I will not ask for a vote on, and that is that we
02:30:45proceed under Merkley Amendment No. 1 to fund the Green Climate Fund. It is the situation that we
02:30:53have had more than a dozen instances already this year of a billion-dollar weather events related
02:31:00to climate change, and we're seeing right now, as I mentioned earlier, 800,000 acres burning in
02:31:06Oregon, more than all the fires in New Mexico, Arizona, California, Washington State, Idaho,
02:31:13Montana, and Alaska combined. We are seeing massive disruptions that will only continue to
02:31:20get worse year after year, and all the Green Climate Fund says is that according to the
02:31:28commitment that we made in Paris in 2015, the more affluent nations are going to help the
02:31:35poor nations cope with some of the devastating effects of global climate change. We will not
02:31:41be able to tackle this issue by ourselves because the atmosphere is a global issue. For the world to
02:31:46tackle it, there has to be U.S. leadership. For U.S. leadership to be effective, there has to be the
02:31:53power of our example, and one simple and important piece of that is providing some funds to help the
02:31:59poorest nations cope with devastating consequences. I withdraw the amendment.
02:32:05Are there any other amendments? I would record the vote of Senator Merkley as no.
02:32:10Are there any other senators who wish to speak? Senator Moran.
02:32:15I do want to speak, and I know that the vote's pending that I just cast for many of you. I would
02:32:19only remind you that Senator Collins has not missed any votes, and so I'm just going to warn you.
02:32:24And you'll make certain they don't close the vote until you both get there, I assume.
02:32:29Let me say quickly, I've not had a chance in this kind of setting to highlight something
02:32:34that we recently learned from the Department of Veterans Affairs and from OMB, a mandatory
02:32:40funding shortfall of approximately $3 billion in the compensation and pension and readjustment
02:32:45benefits accounts for fiscal year 24 and a discretionary funding shortfall of approximately
02:32:52$12 billion in its medical care accounts for fiscal year 25.
02:32:58VA, Department of Veterans Affairs and OMB, the Office of Management and Budget, waited until
02:33:02after this committee passed its MilCon VA appropriations bill two weeks ago to come
02:33:08forward with this information, and only after this committee had acted on a bipartisan basis
02:33:15to craft a funding deal based on overall spending caps enacted in the Fiscal Responsibility Act,
02:33:23and they're coming forward with an accurate budget to provide for our veterans, nation's
02:33:27veterans. So only after we did our work are we informed of this problem, and it could not,
02:33:33in my view, have been only then did the VA or OMB know these facts. We've had the Secretary,
02:33:39as the chairman of this committee would know, in front of our Committee on Veterans Affairs,
02:33:45and the testimony from him and from the department officials is they have sufficient
02:33:49funds to implement the PAC Act. This has, we have an obligation to our veterans. There's no one in
02:33:57this room and no one in the Committee on Veterans Affairs that believes otherwise, but the VA
02:34:04claims now that 7 million veterans and survivors are at risk of not receiving their benefit payments
02:34:09on October the 1st, a date in which there's very few days in which we will be here between now and
02:34:15then if Congress does not act before September the 20th. Under the current congressional schedule,
02:34:21it's only those few weeks between now and September 20th. As I said, I think we're all
02:34:28committed, I'm committed to making sure veterans and survivors do not suffer, but I think this is
02:34:34significant financial mismanagement and or incompetence at the Department of Veterans
02:34:39Affairs and I'm gravely concerned that the administration, both the VA and OMB, specifically
02:34:46misled Congress for months about the state of affairs at the VA and the level of resources that
02:34:51are actually needed to care for veterans and their survivors. I just want to make certain that it's
02:34:56known this is unacceptable and I hope to all of my colleagues we have no choice but to address the
02:35:01issue, but we also ought not to leave unaddressed the issue of the ability of the
02:35:07Department of Veterans Affairs and OMB to tell us the truth in a timely manner. They need to be much
02:35:12more transparent and forthcoming. I'm the lead Republican on the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee.
02:35:17I hope that Senator Tester and I will be able to host and hold a hearing with Secretary McDonough
02:35:23and other VA leaders about this mess in coming weeks. As we proceed with funding the government
02:35:28in fiscal year 25, we all have another issue that presumably you could have dealt with had you
02:35:35known when you made the decisions about emergency spending and whether it was domestic or
02:35:42defense. So I offer my condolences to the two of you, but the consequences are significant for
02:35:48many people and a lot more challenges for us as we try to do something in a fiscally responsible
02:35:54manner and take care of the veterans who deserve the benefits that the PACT Act provides. Thank you.
02:36:01Thank you for listening to me. Are there any other senators who wish to be recognized? If not, the
02:36:05final tally on this bill is 24 ayes, 5 nays, and the bill will be reported as amended. With that,
02:36:13I just want to take a moment to really thank everyone for their participation in today's
02:36:17markup. It takes a lot of hard work to get here and I'm pleased to say we have now marked up
02:36:22another four strong bipartisan bills and we've shown that once again that it is possible to make
02:36:27progress in a serious bipartisan way when we bring solutions to the table and leave politics at the
02:36:33door and listen to what folks back at home are telling us about the programs and investments
02:36:38that make a difference in their lives. So I want to thank all of my colleagues, especially Vice
02:36:42Chair Collins, who work very closely with me to produce these bills for the work that's made
02:36:46possible. I look forward to keeping up this progress and reporting strong bipartisan bills
02:36:51out of the committee with another markup that will be scheduled next Thursday morning where
02:36:56we will consider the remaining five of our FY25 bills. And with that, this committee is adjourned.
02:37:16you

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