House of the Dragon casting director Kate Rhodes James takes us through her casting process while sharing her foresights for each characters' future on the show. From Emma D'Arcy as Rhaenerya and Matt Smith as Daemon Targaryen, Kate breaks down the intricacies of creating the show's vision through her stellar casting.
Thumbnail: Daemon Photo by Liam Daniel/HBO
Thumbnail: Daemon Photo by Liam Daniel/HBO
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00:00He's like a jazz musician when he's sort of scatting around.
00:02It's a real joy.
00:03And we started to see that his version of Damon
00:07was actually the most profound version that we needed
00:10for the story that we were building at that point.
00:16Hi, Vanity Fair.
00:18I'm Kate Rhodes-James.
00:19I'm the cast and director of House of the Dragon.
00:21And today I'm going to let you into some of my secrets
00:24of how we put it all together.
00:25Game of Thrones was the most sensationally successful TV
00:30show, I think, of all time.
00:31I think a lot of that success was primarily down
00:33to the genius of the casting.
00:35And so that was a very tall order to follow.
00:38I wanted to challenge everyone's preconceptions
00:42about these roles.
00:43And I think that's also part of what a casting director should
00:46do, is to say, yes, that could work.
00:49But what if we went that way?
00:51Rhaenyra, she needed to be somebody that was unusual,
00:56fiercely intelligent.
00:58I didn't want her to be this sort of doe-eyed girl
01:02that we see on television a lot.
01:04You've got to think about your audience
01:05that's going to spend the next five years with this character.
01:09And you need an actor that's going to evolve.
01:11I found Emma through theater.
01:14And I was fascinated by them.
01:19I would call them in for many auditions.
01:23And they always did something unique, something so unique.
01:27I'd spend a whole day hearing the scene being done well.
01:33And then Emma would come in.
01:34And it was like they would find elements of a scene
01:39that no one had even seen, let alone noticed.
01:42And it never felt like acting.
01:44So I was on a mission to find the right thing for them.
01:48It was very exciting when I introduced them
01:51to Ryan and Miguel.
01:53They had read, along with many, many other actresses.
01:56And I remember sending it, the link, to them in California
01:59and thinking, OK, this is going to go two ways.
02:02These are either my people or possibly not my people.
02:05And they immediately came back and said,
02:08there's only one person.
02:10And that was Emma, which was a huge relief.
02:13Because then I knew I was with the people, creatively,
02:16that I could go on this very, very long journey with.
02:22Millie Alcock is an actress who I had already known her work.
02:27I'd seen her in an Australian show called Upright
02:31and thought she was just spectacular.
02:33What you do is you ask for younger pictures
02:35of the actresses, because it guides you.
02:37Then I suddenly, halfway through the process,
02:39suddenly thought, hang on a minute.
02:40Millie put a picture next to Emma.
02:43It was the shape of the face, obviously,
02:44the color of the eyes.
02:45But also Millie's little renegade, as is Emma,
02:49their energy is very, very similar.
02:52It just is that free spirit.
02:53It's that wild intellect and fierceness.
02:57Even when Millie is just the cupbearer with her father,
03:00she is a presence and already a force.
03:04And I already knew I was going to get that from Emma.
03:07So it's making sure you remember that.
03:11She didn't audition.
03:13It was really chaotic, which added to the fun of it.
03:16She was living at home with her mum.
03:19She was in an attic in Sydney.
03:21It was very early for me, very late for her.
03:24We worked a lot together on a Zoom.
03:26And it was, again, it was her energy.
03:28And I knew that was what would appeal to everybody.
03:31It didn't matter that the flat was maybe a bit chaotic.
03:34It sort of added to her charm and to who Millie was then,
03:38not now, but then as a hugely enthusiastic,
03:42characterful young woman.
03:46Olivia Cooke, very experienced actress.
03:49She'd been acting since she was very, very young.
03:51And somebody I'd never got to work with
03:53and I'd always wanted to.
03:55Right from the get-go again, self-tape,
03:57kind of knocked it out of the park.
03:58She auditioned also for Ronera.
04:00Both the reads were spectacular,
04:02but it was really clear that she was suited to Alison.
04:04And I can't explain to you why,
04:06because it's just an instinctive thing.
04:08And then the joy of having Emma and Olivia
04:14spark off each other.
04:15You hope that happens.
04:16You don't know.
04:16I was watching, actually, the scene between the two girls,
04:20Ronera and Alison.
04:21But Ronera realizes that Alison made a mistake.
04:26This is just an extraordinary performance.
04:28That's a real honor to be around actors
04:30as talented and as clever as that.
04:33For Olivia, finding the younger version of her
04:36was slightly easier than Emma,
04:40simply because Olivia's got that beautiful,
04:44dark brown hair and those big brown eyes.
04:46And we did a big open call again, virtually.
04:49But at this stage, it was ultimately
04:50who was going to feel like the young version of Olivia,
04:55but also who, you know,
04:57these are two lambs to the slaughter.
04:59So there's a vulnerability.
05:00Emily just sort of wafted in
05:02with this incredible sort of glow and charm
05:05and innocence about her
05:07that was completely and utterly engaging
05:11for what we needed from Alison at that time.
05:13You know, Alison was always the good girl.
05:14She was always sort of saying,
05:16oh, Ronera, stop doing that and put that away
05:18and stop laughing too much, stop talking too loudly.
05:20And again, they just worked it out beautifully.
05:24So we were really blessed in those situations.
05:26You just got to make sure that you were there
05:29You just got to make sure you cover everything
05:31and just pray that they're out there.
05:35Matt Smith, an extraordinary actor,
05:37really, really, really brought it to the table.
05:39Damon has no redeeming features,
05:41and that's a good thing.
05:43I think that's fun to play.
05:44I mean, you know, in that first series,
05:46he's seducing his niece.
05:48He's at the whorehouse every five seconds.
05:50He's completely out of control and vicious with it.
05:53I knew in my heart of hearts that Matt can play that.
05:57Most of what he had done up to that point,
05:59there had been sympathetic side to him,
06:02and we needed to not see that.
06:04We needed not to have any sense of,
06:07you know, really, really just go for it.
06:10So we asked him in for an audition
06:12and he was, you know, it was phenomenal.
06:14He came in, I had to read with him,
06:16which was somewhat mortifying for him,
06:19but we did it and he just went with it.
06:23He's like a jazz musician when he's sort of scatting around
06:25and it's just, it's a real joy.
06:28And we started to see that his version of Damon
06:31was actually the most profound version
06:33that we needed for the story
06:34that we were building at that point.
06:36It was extraordinary.
06:38It was just extraordinary.
06:39And it was just a slam dunk at that point.
06:41He was our Damon.
06:42And it's funny because I can't think of anybody else
06:45that I even considered for that role.
06:46They're just gone.
06:47I can't remember.
06:48I think the easy way to have gone with Damon,
06:50which wouldn't have been nearly as interesting,
06:52would have been to get some, you know,
06:54big muscly thug of an actor.
06:56That would have been boring.
06:57You want the complexities.
06:58You want someone who can physically be that person,
07:02which Matt does, but equally be able to navigate
07:05those different relationships between the ones
07:07that he has with his brother, with his niece,
07:10with his aunt, all of that.
07:12And that is where Matt is so spectacularly skillful.
07:15I think this is an incredibly brilliant platform for him.
07:21Ewan Mitchell.
07:22You know, I knew Ewan a bit from his previous work,
07:25but I didn't know him forensically.
07:28And he obviously stood out for quite a striking
07:31looking young man and an intensity.
07:34And when he gave us that, my word,
07:36it was quite something else.
07:38And that essence, having an actor
07:41that's going to be that brave and fearless,
07:43that's what House of the Dragon and Game of Thrones
07:46is all about, is having fearless actors.
07:48So he really, really turned it up a huge notch.
07:52There was just an otherworldliness.
07:54They don't disappear.
07:55They all stand out.
07:57And he had a great buildup with the fantastic Leo Ashton,
08:00who played the younger version of him,
08:02with the loss of the eye,
08:04that fight scene with those kids,
08:05I still think is just phenomenal.
08:07I mean, it's the first time I've seen children fighting
08:10like adults, which is what they were trained to do.
08:12They said, we're not going to teach you
08:13to fight like children.
08:14We're going to teach you to fight like adults,
08:15which made that scene all the more shocking in season one.
08:19So Leo, again, had sowed the seeds so magnificently
08:23for Ewan to then come in with his eye patch
08:26and all of those spectacular visuals that he had.
08:30He didn't have much to do.
08:31He was just being established in season one.
08:34But season two, my God, it brings fun to it as well,
08:38which makes it even more enjoyable.
08:42Matthew Needham actually is a great example
08:44of another extraordinarily fascinating actor
08:47who I've worked with quite a lot.
08:49And if you bring in people like Matthew,
08:52some directors wouldn't know what to do with him.
08:55But the really, really, really brilliant directors
08:58have really, really hit the floor running with him.
09:00I mean, I had him in Napoleon.
09:01He played Joaquin Phoenix's brother in Napoleon
09:04and Joaquin absolutely adored him
09:06because Matthew sits back.
09:09He just sits back and he watches.
09:11He's a watcher and he's an absorber.
09:13And those, of course, are the most fascinating people.
09:16He doesn't need to try too much.
09:18It's already worked out why this person is the way he is.
09:21He's not just playing someone with a clubfoot
09:22who's got some axe to grind.
09:24So that's what I say to actors.
09:26And it's hard because a lot of the time
09:27they don't get scripts or they get dummy sides.
09:29I always say, make a decision about the character.
09:31Bring it into the room.
09:33And every time I've seen an actor do that,
09:35I see the director move forward and go,
09:37okay, great, that was wonderful, but let's go again
09:39and we'll try something else.
09:40If you walk into the room and expecting us
09:42to sort of give it to you, it doesn't succeed so well.
09:48Tom's just a spectacular actor who I had seen
09:51in the Jez Butterworth play at the Royal Court.
09:55He came on to one of my all-time favourite songs,
09:58which was Teenage Kicks by The Undertones.
10:01And he danced with such ferocity.
10:03His foot, when he was wearing Doc Martens,
10:05he was stamping and stamping and stamping on the stage
10:07and the stage was wobbling.
10:08And I just thought, look at that commitment,
10:10that passion, that ferocity.
10:13I was completely besotted with him as an actor.
10:17I had been determined to find something.
10:20So when we were casting this, I do remember saying
10:23to Ryan and Miguel, I know exactly who's going to play this.
10:25And I said, I'm not going to say his name
10:27because I don't want you to be pressurised,
10:29but I have exactly the perfect actor to play this role.
10:33And it was Tom.
10:37I've known Steve for years.
10:39I've cast him in many things, Line of Duty,
10:41and I've seen a lot of his theatre.
10:43It was a joy actually to be able to put Steve's front
10:46and centre because everything that he was doing
10:48was doing so brilliantly,
10:49but he was never really giving those lead roles on camera.
10:52And to give him a lead role,
10:53which, you know, they all are leading characters.
10:56It was real joy.
10:57And he's loving every minute of it.
10:59He and Eve Best are just spectacular together
11:02and they look after each other.
11:03And again, that's part of the process
11:04of making sure that you're getting personalities
11:07that are going to,
11:07because those performances will only grow
11:10when you have somebody that's going to let you
11:12become the fertile, fertile land.
11:15It's lines like, you know,
11:16Reynice, the queen that never was.
11:18I mean, that says everything.
11:20That's a lifetime of frustration, of loss,
11:24of never getting what she wanted,
11:26of always being second best.
11:28And I think that's profoundly inspiring.
11:31So that's what led me on that road to say,
11:33Reynice.
11:34I mean, it's a gift.
11:36It's a complete gift to work on a show like this.
11:38I'm immensely proud of it.
11:40I'm immensely proud of every single person in it.
11:43They've all taken on this huge responsibility.
11:46And it wasn't easy.
11:47You know, we shot the first series in lockdown.
11:49You know, they went from their locked-in homes
11:52into a locked-in studio in Watford.
11:54But there's a real sense of camaraderie amongst everybody.
11:58And I think that's essential.