In this Independence Day special, Oneindia brings you an exclusive interview with Maj Gen R.K. Kakkar, a distinguished veteran who served in both the 1971 and 1999 wars. Hear firsthand accounts of his experiences, the challenges faced, and the courage that defined those historic battles. Join us as we honour a true patriot and his invaluable contributions to India's defense. Watch Oneindia's Pankaj Mishra in conversation with Maj Gen R.K. Kakkar.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Before I went into the battle, luckily I had a satellite telephone
00:04The three of my units, I gave them a two-day seat
00:06I said, let all men talk to their people who still have a phone at home
00:11That gave so much of spirit to the boys
00:13That, you know, they were in touch with their families before they went into the battle
00:25Seventeen yards from the left, thirteen yards from the right
00:29Two ridges culminating at 4875
00:32And then I had put two Nagas in between
00:35The moment these two are captured, you just rush through them
00:39And go for the depth where the enemy guns are
00:52After the capture of point 4875, we had retrieved 55 dead bodies
00:58We told them that these are here, just that they are not our brothers
01:01Seventeen people in their presence, we buried them on point 4875
01:05And we gave them the respect, this is our Indian culture
01:17We have a radio set which has a pressure
01:19If you press the switch, the fellow who's on the phone, he can't hear you
01:22Deepak Rampal has pressed the switch
01:25Jawan, don't worry, I'm moving forward
01:27I'm telling Deepak, Big Tiger here, Big Tiger here
01:32Leave the switch
01:33Thirty yards, there's a platoon coming with ammunition, attack beaten back
01:46My successor, Gita Mathe, he's a 101 course, Vikram Batra's course
01:51This rally was organized and it was so pleasing to see
01:56Such a moment of pride, this is what the army is all about
01:59Army is all about
02:00Regiment spirit, army spirit, force spirit, the spirit which comes from the heart
02:05Hello and welcome to this very special series that One India is bringing to you
02:10On the occasion of the 15th of August, which Independence Day, the nation, the world too
02:17Is taking note of how India has come a long way
02:20As far as the independence is concerned, as far as developments
02:24And also the cultural aspect of it is concerned
02:27One important constituent of India's independence, India's democracy, India's polity
02:34One of the important cornerstones is the Indian defense forces
02:38The Indian Army, Air Force and the Navy
02:40And it is our pleasure today to be joined by Major General Ramesh Kakkar, Yudhseva Medal
02:46And he is there with us today to tell us what it means to take fresh breath
02:51In an independent India and what does it take to maintain the sanctity
02:56The gravity of this particular feeling
03:00Major General Kakkar, thank you so much for speaking to One India
03:03Thank you
03:04Sir, first things first, independent India is not just a status quo
03:09But it is, it's also a feeling
03:11You have served a long time in Indian Army
03:15Share with us your experience
03:17When you look back, what feeling does it give you
03:20Starting with 1969 when you graduated, the first war that you entered in 1971
03:25Then Kargil happened
03:27What is your experience when you look back, sir?
03:30Well, Pankaj, Indian Army prepares you
03:37In such a way that during the initial stages only
03:42When you're doing training at the National Defense Academy, the Indian Military Academy
03:48The amount of discipline that is inculcated into you
03:52That you imbibe the value of time
03:56Then you imbibe the value of what pride is there to be a soldier
04:04Right, absolutely
04:05Now to be a soldier, one thing is very, very important
04:11And that is that it thinks about only his regiment
04:17Because that's the place from where you started
04:20Right
04:20That is a place from where the brotherhood camaraderie starts
04:24Right
04:25Once you join a regiment, then that camaraderie
04:31Leads you to such a pride in your nationality
04:35That you are a proud Indian
04:37That you cannot let down India and let down your own regiment
04:42Right, absolutely
04:44That is a very, very big thing that the army
04:47The defense forces imbibe into you right from the beginning
04:51After our commission, I joined my unit
04:57Got the initial training in the battalion because you're a subaltern
05:00Yes
05:00Trying to find your ways
05:03They push you around, give you independent tasks
05:08And then the 71 war happened
05:10Right
05:12Now the first thing that I learned during the 1971 war was
05:20That you're used to the bombardment
05:23Okay
05:24In the training
05:25But there the bombs and the bullets are going over your head
05:28Because safety matters
05:30And here we were in a place called Suchedgar
05:33And we had just entered Suchedgar to prepare our defenses
05:39Right
05:40And then came the bombardment
05:43Which was live onto our heads
05:45Right
05:46And we had never experienced this kind of a thing
05:48This was not training, this was real life
05:50It is real life
05:51Right
05:51And then what we see, our commanding officer
05:55Colonel Inder Rajkumar
05:57He told his sahayak, get me my chair
06:01He got the chair, sat down in outside and started reading a newspaper
06:07Oh as if nothing is happening
06:09So this kind of a leadership has impressed, has left me such a big mark
06:16That I followed this
06:18That even during an emergency like this, how to bring, how to show leadership traits
06:23Right
06:23This was the biggest lesson that I learned
06:25And it continued
06:26Right
06:27Leadership is something that the officers are trained
06:30Both at NDA and the IMS
06:32And that's what forms the strength and the cornerstone of the armed forces
06:39One event that transpired two decades later was 1999 Kargil
06:46And your leadership was something that we all have read about, heard about
06:50The way, it was not about just the war when it started
06:54But before that, prior to that, what kind of preparations were done
06:58How to evacuate the general people there
07:00How to reduce the casualty
07:03What was going in your mind when the army, when the war just started with Pakistan in 1999
07:09You see, you have put such a lovely question to me
07:13Which is very close to my heart
07:15Right
07:15All right
07:18I joined 79th Independent Brigade
07:21That's called Himalayan Brigade
07:22Right
07:22Which operates beyond 12,000 feet and beyond
07:27Is trained for that
07:28Okay
07:29For offensive tasks
07:31So when I joined, I had a very beautiful boss, Lieutenant General Kishan Paul
07:38Okay
07:39After one month of my joining the brigade, he called me
07:43He says, what do you want from me?
07:47I said, sir, as of now, I have got four battalions
07:51And I would like them to be acclimatized fully
07:55Some are acclimatized, but they're not
07:57He said, very good
07:59He sent the entire brigade to Gulmarg
08:01At the height of 13,000, 14,000, 15,000 feet
08:05So I didn't know Kargil is going to happen
08:08But my task was beyond 12,000
08:10So we started subconsciously, it happened
08:14Instead of two battalions, I had four battalions trained at the same time
08:18Now, when we went into Kargil, on 25th of May, we got the orders
08:25Right
08:25And from Gulmarg move, 27th of May, we reached in 1999
08:31And we were given an area called Mashko Valley
08:34Mashko Valley
08:35Daraz
08:36Yes, yes
08:36And our task was to clear 40 kilometers of Mashko Valley
08:41And to clear point 4875, which is the most dominating point in that area
08:46Right
08:46And restore the situation of the LOC
08:51And at that point of time, this big fight started in the Tololing and Tiger Hill
08:58So this gave me two weeks time
09:00Yes
09:01To prepare further
09:03For upper reaches
09:05So what was in my mind was that
09:07I should plan my operation in such a way that I surprise the enemy
09:13Right
09:13My plan should be such
09:15That I should suffer the least number of casualties
09:20And any casualty that is suffered from there
09:24I must be able to evacuate them in such a way that no one dies
09:29Right
09:30En route
09:31These are very difficult heights
09:33And before I went into the battle, into the offensive work to capture point 4875
09:44Luckily, I had a satellite telephone
09:47Okay
09:48So which I said to the three of my units, 17 chart, I gave them two days each
09:56I said, let all men talk to the people who still have a phone at home
10:01Right, right
10:02So that gave so much of spirit to the boys
10:05That they were in touch with their families before they went into the battle
10:10This is leadership, sir
10:11This is absolute leadership
10:12This was there
10:14And then, of course, the battalion joined
10:20You heard about Anuj Nair, Deepak Rampal
10:26They did a beautiful job
10:28They got Mahavir Chakra and Veer Chakra
10:31And 13 Jaya Krif was the most difficult task that can be given in the Indian army
10:36To capture point 4875
10:38Right
10:38Capture of 4875 entailed real heights, sheer ridges
10:44And it was very difficult to capture them
10:46Absolutely
10:47So now preparation for 4875, luckily, I had an officer there, Brigadier Lakhwinder Singh
10:54He was artillery in charge
10:55Right
10:56And he was having bofors
10:58So we decided that for such height, we will use the bofors in a direct firing role
11:03Instead of going on top
11:04Oh yes
11:05Let's take an aim at the bunkers and fire at them
11:08Okay, absolutely
11:09So it's a very good thing started
11:12We used to fire a round
11:14For five minutes, the enemy would bow his head down
11:16And the men would move 10 yards ahead
11:18Okay
11:18And then some rocket launcher of the battalion put their head down
11:23And this way moved up
11:24Kabrahi
11:24So that's the place Vikram Batra
11:26Yes
11:27Dil Mange Mohr
11:28Yes, Dil Mange Mohr
11:29And Sanjay Kumar
11:30Yes
11:30Vikram Batra died first
11:32And then Sanjay Kumar laid down his life
11:35So, it was the preparation like this, which mattered a lot
11:40Absolutely, sir
11:42Now, we had captured point 4875
11:45Right
11:46But we have to clear the LOC
11:48Yes, it was not over
11:5017 yards from the left, 13 yards from the right, two ridges culminating at 4875
11:57And then I had put two Nagas in between
12:00The moment these two are captured, you would just rush through them
12:04And go for the depth
12:06Right, right, right
12:07Where the enemy guns are
12:09And go and launch a raid there
12:12Right
12:13Now, Nagas are a very young battalion
12:17Very young soldiers
12:19Between the age of 20, 24, 30
12:22Fighting fit
12:23Fighting fit
12:24And generally all soldiers like this
12:26British soldiers, you know, they are clean shaven
12:30Little height with the rifle in the hand
12:33Looking very menacing
12:35Right
12:35Menacing
12:36Yes, yes, yes, yes
12:37So, they start and they started running
12:40Charging
12:41Charging
12:41And the moment the enemy saw them, they started running away, you know
12:46Nagas have gone
12:46Yes, yes, yes
12:47And then when they were doing this in the main way
12:50The battalion had launched a raid onto the guns
12:53And they captured 12 pieces of artillery
12:57That broke the backbone of Pakistan Army
13:01We reached their firm base
13:02We reached the LOC
13:04And the Tigers was captured
13:06And we had reached the LOC with the first
13:08Battalion to have reached
13:09And then followed by 17th Art, 19th Art
13:12We surrounded and they all withdrew
13:14Right
13:15Okay
13:15So, this was a nutshell I'm telling you
13:17Yes, yes, yes
13:18Absolutely
13:20So, this kind of planning, the kind of leadership that you demonstrated
13:22And the whole team that was there
13:25The situation at that particular point of time
13:27What started as a surprise for Indian Army
13:31Finally, Indian Army took it to the logical end
13:34The kind of professionalism, sir, the Indian Army demonstrated
13:38Was also talked about
13:39Not just nationally, but internationally also
13:42But the same, I would say, respect was not shown from the Pakistani side
13:47Is there any sort of that kind of feeling that
13:51While Indian Army was returning the dead bodies of Pakistani soldiers
13:55It was with all due formalities
13:58But from the Pakistani side, it was missing
13:59Yes
14:01It was a big fault of Musharraf
14:08We had in our area
14:12Half a battalion of 6th Northern Light Infantry
14:15Okay
14:16They are army soldiers
14:17Yes, yes, yes
14:18They are like Jarts and Raj Rif, Rajputana Rifles
14:23They disowned them
14:26They are not National Light Infantry
14:29Then we had
14:31After the capture of 0.4875
14:34We had retrieved 55 dead bodies
14:38Retrieved physically
14:40Yes, absolutely
14:41We told them that these are here
14:43Please take them
14:43They said they are not our bodies
14:45Non-state actors
14:46They are not as I came
14:48We buried them on the 0.4875
14:51And we gave them the respect of a Shaheed
14:54Yes, a due burial
14:55Shaheed
14:55This is our culture
14:57This is our Indian culture
14:59So this sent big messages to the Pakistanis
15:04Absolutely
15:06I mean, the civilians out there are still talking about it
15:10And they talk about Indian Army with respect
15:13This is the respect that not only we have earned in India from Indians
15:18This is the respect that you earn from Pakistanis for Indian Army
15:22Sir, you mentioned 13th Jack Rif
15:2425 years of Kargil have just passed
15:27The IMA's 101 regular
15:30Batchmates, course mates
15:32They did a motorcycle rally through Dras, Kargil, Batalik and Mashko and all the regions
15:39This kind of tribute that
15:44You know, the course mates from 101
15:47Captain Vikram Batra's course mates paid to him
15:50What message do you think it sends across to the general army fraternity?
15:54You see, this was very beautifully done
16:02My successor, Brigadier Mate
16:08He is from 101 course
16:10Right
16:11And he is squadding now 79 independent
16:13Okay
16:14He is squadding the brigade that I have commanded
16:16Oh yes, yes, now he is
16:17Vikram Batra's course
16:19So, then he requested his course mates who are serving
16:23That we must pay our homage
16:26Yes
16:27To Vikram Batra
16:29And then this rally was organized
16:33And it was so, so pleasing to see
16:38Such a moment of pride
16:40To see these officers, they have not forgotten
16:44Their brother-in-arm who was the course mate
16:47Right
16:48In fact, they have honored him in such a way
16:52That his memory is everlasting
16:55The memories of the soldiers who are serving now
16:58Right
16:58That Vikram Batra is there
17:00After 30 years, 40 years, 50 years, only he will be named
17:03But the soldiers who are here now
17:05For the next 15-20 years
17:07They will keep singing their praises
17:09And keep on passing it on
17:11This is what the army is all about
17:12Army is all about
17:13Regimental spirit
17:14Yes
17:14Army spirit, course mate spirit
17:17The spirit which comes from the heart
17:19Absolutely
17:20This brotherhood also is something that is for lifelong
17:24Major General Kargil, when we look back
17:29It is about stories of valor, grit, determination and leadership
17:34In your opinion, sir, if you would want to share with us some
17:38Some story, some moment that you
17:40That is very close to you of leadership
17:43When you think that that was the time when
17:46You had to take a decision and you went ahead with it
17:49And executed it
17:50I will give you two incidents
17:55Which are at the back of my mind
18:00And those officers, when I think about them
18:04I think about them with pride
18:07One is that of Anuj Nair
18:10He was a young officer
18:13He was my daughter's classmate
18:14Oh, okay, okay, okay
18:16He was a young captain
18:21His company commander during the attack
18:23Suffered injuries, he was evacuated
18:26So the youngsters took command
18:30And he took command at the time
18:32When it was the most critical
18:34Absolutely, can't get there
18:35He was just commanding a leading platoon
18:38Company commander has laid down his life
18:41He was in the leading section
18:43He says he left the officer
18:46Sir, you don't come, stay put here
18:48I'm going ahead
18:49Right
18:50He went and captured a post
18:54Which was the most difficult up the hill
18:57Lobbed grenades, took his section
18:59And killed four people with MMGs
19:03While doing so, he also laid down his life
19:08Now, the battalion is
19:11The company is without an officer
19:13Yes
19:14At that point of time
19:16There was a fellow called Captain Shashi Bhushan
19:19Okay
19:20With every leading company
19:21You have an artillery officer
19:24Right
19:24Leads, who drops a fire of the artillery onto the target
19:28Right
19:28Keeps on adjusting
19:30Shashi Bhushan told the
19:32I'm the company commander now
19:34Okay, he took charge
19:35He took charge without being told
19:39In that situation
19:41At that point of time
19:42And he led the company to success
19:45Wow
19:45And we gave him Veer Chakra
19:48Amazing
19:50The second incident which comes into my mind
19:52Of immediate decision
19:54Right
19:54Right
19:57There's a fellow called
19:58This is from 17 Jatt again
20:01Anuj Nair
20:02Right
20:03There's a fellow called Deepak Rampal
20:05Mm-hmm
20:07The one company of Anuj Nair was on the left
20:11And he was going through this to attack
20:14Right
20:15And he did a beautiful job
20:17Reached from the top
20:18And since the enemy was in between 4875 and this
20:24Mm-hmm
20:25They captured it
20:26Okay
20:27Now, Pakistanis what they do is
20:29It was a difficult thing
20:30A lot of people got casualties and all that
20:32He reached from the top
20:34And what Pakistanis do is
20:35At the moment the position is about to be captured
20:38They all leave the position
20:40And then they withdraw
20:42Okay
20:42Okay
20:43And the moment you are reached on the top
20:47The Pakistanis form up to attack you back
20:51So that at that point of time
20:52You are absolutely unsettled
20:55You are thinking that you have got it
20:57Men are all over
20:58Yes
20:58Tired also
20:5910, 4 men here
21:003 men here
21:01You're disorganized
21:02I mean people are there
21:04And you get an attack coming
21:06You don't
21:06And you carry a limited ammunition
21:09So Deepak Rampal
21:11I had a communication with each and every company commander major
21:14Right
21:15Now we have a radio set which has a pressure
21:18If you press the switch
21:20Nobody
21:22The fellow who's on the phone he can't hear you
21:24Okay
21:25So Deepak Rampal is press the switch
21:26I'm telling Deepak, Big Tiger here, Big Tiger here
21:40Leave the switch
21:41He left the switch
21:43Deepak Big Tiger here
21:45Look back 30 yards
21:46There's a platoon coming with ammunition
21:49All the boys who are there
21:50Collect them
21:51Collect the ammunition and start fighting in them
21:53Roger sir
21:55Attack beaten back
21:57There was nobody behind
21:58Right, right
21:59But you just gave an impression
22:01I just gave an impression
22:02Because at that point of time he required somebody
22:05Yes, yes
22:05To put him into that spirit that he has to do this
22:08He knows his strength
22:10But you know in that exuberance
22:11He doesn't want to lose a position
22:13Right
22:14Wow
22:15Exactly
22:16Lively tales of valor in those testing times
22:20Can't get
22:20So that is why they say keep the pulse in the hand
22:22This is a task of the commander
22:24Right
22:25Much respect to sir
22:26Salute to the service that you have rendered
22:29I was listening to one of the interviews by
22:33One of the noted filmmakers Farhan Akhtar
22:36And his father Javed Akhtar scripted a movie called Lakshya
22:40Where Hrithik Roshan plays a gentleman cadet
22:46And later on he joins the army
22:47Roughly based on the same Kargil wars
22:51Why Javed Akhtar chose to make that movie
22:54Was that he was told in the year of 2001
22:58Two years after the Kargil war happened
23:01That there is a scarcity of officers in Indian army
23:07The movie was made two three years down the line
23:10They went to Indian military academy again
23:12And Javed Akhtar was there
23:13Farhan was also there
23:14And the officers asked from the IMA present cadets
23:20That how many have you joined army
23:23After watching the movie Lakshya
23:25There were 30-40 candidates who raised their hand
23:28What is it that motivates the youngsters sir
23:31And what should be it that motivates the youngsters
23:33To join Indian army in your opinion
23:35You see I think very prudent to say
23:41That the positivity
23:43The positivity
23:45Thank you
23:46The positivity of the media in showing and elaborating
23:50The army flamboyance
23:54The army's life
23:59It is a life which anybody would look forward to
24:04Carefree
24:09Dedicated
24:11With loyalty for the nation in your heart
24:14And then will to do or die for the nation
24:19Yes
24:20So such movies inspire school-going children
24:27Could be girls, could be boys
24:29And then
24:32The competition becomes that much more fiercer
24:37So these movies the moment they generate some kind of interest
24:42Supposing there were 25,000 people inspiring
24:46There are more than 75,000 people inspiring
24:49Now to join NDA, IMA
24:51Yes
24:51Now you get the cream
24:53You get the best
24:54Best of the best
24:55Best
24:55This is one thing which is very very good
24:58In having such movies through medias
25:02Right
25:02Such positivity
25:04Such kind of aim
25:06Showing such kind of
25:07Right
25:08Absolutely Major General Khakkar
25:11I can't help but ask you also
25:14With these kind of positive energy around defence forces
25:18Be it military, army, air force or navy
25:23We see very inspirational videos made by these three
25:27Wings of the Indian Defence Forces
25:29And it inspires
25:30Trust me, I am a father of two kids
25:32And I would definitely want them
25:33If they are willing to join the defence forces
25:38The government in itself is doing the best it can
25:42By allocating the budgetary allocation that is required for the betterment
25:48With changing times and modern technologies
25:51In your opinion
25:52When you look at army
25:54When you look at defence forces on the whole
25:57Are we headed on the right path
25:59First of all
25:59And secondly
26:00If there are certain changes or amendments that could be made
26:04At any level
26:06Any suggestion that you would like to
26:07Maybe give it through your experiences
26:11See, I left the army in 2006
26:15Compared to that
26:17Now, 24, 18 years have passed
26:2118 years have passed
26:22There has been tremendous amount of improvement
26:28Technology-wise
26:31Communication-wise
26:33Artificial intelligence-wise
26:36Because future wars are going to be wars of technology
26:40Right
26:41All right
26:42The basic weapon, the basic infantry, the artillery, the tanks
26:47That be it
26:49They will remain supreme
26:51But if we don't superimpose them
26:54With the superior technology
26:57Then we will be lagging behind
27:00Right
27:01And I think in the last about 10-15 years
27:04A lot has been done
27:07Self-sufficiency in production of weapons
27:10Self-sufficiency in production of ammunition
27:16Which people forget is the mainstay
27:18If you don't have ammunition, you're nothing
27:20You're a man with a rifle with no ammunition
27:22There's nothing to fire
27:24That is
27:26Becoming self-reliant
27:28In all these munitions of war
27:32I think we have taken very big steps
27:34Right
27:36Also you find in air defense
27:41We have a 400 air defense areas
27:45Covered very wisely
27:49You'll be surprised that what we had recommended
27:54I was a major general GS in Lucknow
27:58Central Command
27:59And we had issued a paper
28:01Where the defense secretary, defense minister
28:03Everybody had come
28:05Saying that these roads should come up
28:07Right
28:08Now in the last 18 years
28:11I was pleasantly surprised
28:13That all those roads have come up
28:15See
28:16That is a very very big thing
28:18If you cannot reach the borders
28:21Within the time stipulated
28:24To take action is of no use
28:26This is the biggest achievement
28:29That the Indian army, the nation has achieved
28:32Absolutely, Major General Kakkar
28:34I can't agree with you more
28:35You're right
28:36Be it connecting the border areas to roads
28:40The smart villages that are also coming up there
28:43So that you know
28:44They are properly inhabited also
28:46And from tanks to guns
28:49The self-reliance
28:50The Atmanirbhar Bharat approach towards defense sector
28:54Is something that really is commendable
28:57Talking about the men behind the machines
29:01Men behind the technology
29:04Would be operating them
29:05Agniweels have made an entry into the Indian armed forces
29:08And they are well received
29:10And there are certain quarters
29:11Which have criticized them also
29:14On the whole
29:15Generally with clearly
29:17And only from the perspective of the army
29:20How do you see this particular addition to the
29:24Armed forces lot?
29:27You see, I will give you a little genesis of Agniweel
29:31Right
29:33Till
29:36After 62 and 65 wars
29:38Till that time
29:40We used to have men with
29:41Seven years of color service
29:44Color service, seven years, okay
29:45And then balance of eight years
29:47They would go back home
29:49And then join the unit for two to three months
29:51Okay
29:52And carry out training
29:55And they could be called back anytime
29:58Right
29:58And then their pension would start after 15 years
30:01Okay
30:02And they will get normal pay from 7 to 15 years
30:06Okay
30:07Then a need was felt
30:08That we have to expand the Indian army
30:13So that expansion saw that color service becoming
30:16Minimum of 15 years
30:17Right
30:18And up to 24 years for Havaldars
30:20And then JCOs 28, 32
30:24And now the Agniweel
30:26We come, the circle has come back
30:28Yeah, absolutely
30:29And they said we will have Agniweels with four years
30:34Retain 25 percent
30:37And others can go after 25 years
30:40Right
30:41This is in the process of
30:45I think they are studying this
30:47There have been negative voices
30:50There have been some positive voices
30:52And I think this has been
30:55Already in the planning state to make it eight years
30:58With a larger package for the Agniweels
31:03And retention of about 50 to 60 percent men in the service
31:09It's an evolving process
31:11I think let's wait and watch for two to three years more
31:15And let us see what happens
31:17Absolutely
31:18But if 50 percent people are retained
31:20At least the people who are most technically qualified are there
31:25Other boys who have gone back
31:28The major thing is for the settlement
31:32Right
31:34There should be a lip service for them
31:36Something concrete should be there
31:38Some accountability of the Indian army
31:40So the Indian government has to be there 100 percent
31:43Right
31:44That those 50 percent who are leaving will get an assured job
31:48After they leave the Indian army
31:52Right
31:53The states have to join in
31:55The center has to join in
31:56Everybody has to join in
31:58And then this is one thing you know where
32:02No political party should fight
32:06This is the army
32:07Indian army is for the nation
32:08It's for BJP, it's for comrades, it's for anybody
32:12Right
32:12It's for all parties
32:14The all states governments
32:15Even if they are not the government formed in the center
32:21They should help them
32:22But they should get this
32:23And then if we have generated this kind of a feeling
32:27Then alienation will stop
32:29People will love it
32:30Right
32:31Well said, well said Major General Kakkar
32:33I really admire the way you have put it
32:35And army I think is a way of life
32:39And a very distinct way of life
32:40And no matter you spend four years or four months or four days
32:44Even I would say since I returned from one of the SSVs
32:47Empty-handed after seven days
32:48Being told that you might be suitable for some other field
32:52I was already working as a journalist
32:54Tried my luck in Indian army
32:56And I find myself
32:59The true essence of leadership that it inculcates
33:02So I think any Agnivir who plans to leave it after four years
33:07Would be a better person and better position
33:11To project himself for the next job that he gets at hand
33:14One final question Major General Kakkar
33:16That I wanted to take from you
33:18You have been part of 1971 war
33:20Then Kargil happened
33:21And then many more plannings and strategies
33:23And implementations that you did
33:26There must have been times Major General Kakkar
33:29When you would have
33:31Or any leader in the army would think that
33:36There are not many options left
33:38The decision making that has to be done in crisis times
33:43What keeps you motivated or what kept you motivated
33:46And what keeps the other senior leaders in the army motivated
33:51When they have 200 men to take care of
33:53And one decision that has to be taken
33:55How do you weigh this decision aspect?
34:00I think this question is very deep
34:08As a company commander
34:13Which is commanding 120 men
34:17As a battalion commander
34:18A colonel is squading about 800 men
34:22As a brigade commander who is commanding 8 to 9000 men
34:28These are the forces which are going into the battle
34:32In real sense
34:35Then three to four brigades form a division
34:38They are the people who are strategists
34:42They are like the sink keeping the pulse of the advance
34:48Like you know you play chess this way
34:49The keeping they are there
34:52Now till the rank of a brigadier
34:55You have only one thing in your aim
34:58That there is no second in the army
35:04No second position
35:07You have to be first
35:08There has to be first
35:09Either you win or you lose
35:13Once you have done that
35:15Then you make your plan
35:16Make your options
35:18And once an option has been decided
35:26You have evaluated a lot of things
35:28And then it's a maintenance of aim
35:31To achieve the objective
35:33With minimum number of casualties
35:35Very important
35:37Because the men
35:39If you keep on
35:42If you keep on
35:44If they die unnecessarily
35:45Like a fodder
35:46No they are not
35:47They have
35:48Each man has a mother
35:51Yes
35:52A wife
35:53A child
35:54You are not responsible for that man
35:57You are responsible for the whole clan of his family
36:00It's a very big weight on your head
36:03I can totally understand
36:04It's a very big weight
36:06And you get so involved into it
36:10That you even forget your own family
36:15Absolutely
36:16Now to this extent
36:18I would like to tell you one incident
36:21I would like to tell you one thing
36:25Which nobody talks about
36:27Please, please by all means
36:28Is the role played by army officer's wife
36:35Okay, yes, yes, yes, yes
36:37Commanding officer
36:40His wife
36:42Right
36:42Company commander his wife
36:44Brigade commander his wife
36:47Chap has died
36:49From his company
36:50Right
36:51From his unit
36:52Who has to give solace?
36:54It is the company
36:55First fellow to reach there is like this
36:58Okay
36:59Not bragging
37:00Not talking about my wife
37:02There she is
37:04In Kargil war
37:05There were so many casualties
37:09We had to evacuate them
37:11And she would be at the airport
37:14To receive each one of them
37:16To be with the widows
37:17With the mothers
37:18Consoling them
37:20Going with them
37:21Till the last
37:22And organizing the last right
37:24To the help of the army
37:25Right
37:26This is a very big thing
37:28And with the result
37:29It becomes a regimental kind of
37:31It's a home
37:31Away from home
37:32Absolutely
37:33It cannot be more closer than this
37:34Even my brother
37:36My own mother
37:37My own father
37:38Will not be closer than this bondage
37:40This bondage is very strong
37:42Absolutely
37:42Much respect, sir
37:43Much respect
37:44You have painted
37:46Such a lively picture, sir
37:48In front of me
37:49In front of the viewers
37:51Who are watching this broadcast
37:53Major General Ramesh Kakkar
37:54I can't thank you enough
37:55For taking time out for One India Saturday
37:57Thank you so much
37:57It's a pleasure to be with you, Pankaj
37:59The pleasure is all ours, sir
38:00And the pleasure is for the nation also
38:02To see
38:03To imbibe
38:03To learn from the leaders
38:05Who have shaped
38:06Not just the history
38:07But are shaping the future
38:09The present of the country also
38:10One India will be bringing you
38:12More such interviews
38:13On this auspicious occasion
38:16Of India's Independence Day
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