Join us for an exclusive interview with Tridivesh Singh Maini as he discusses his latest books on Pakistan and Partition. Maini shares his insights on the historical and contemporary implications of Partition, offering a deep dive into the socio-political dynamics of the region. Don't miss this enlightening conversation on Warriors After War & Humanity Amidst Insanity.
#Partition #IndiaPakistan #Independenceday2024 #independence #Freedom #Oneindia #Oneindianews
~HT.97~PR.320~ED.110~
#Partition #IndiaPakistan #Independenceday2024 #independence #Freedom #Oneindia #Oneindianews
~HT.97~PR.320~ED.110~
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NewsTranscript
00:00Hello there, this is me Ansh Pandey and you are watching One India News.
00:04Viewers, today is Independence Day.
00:07Today, every Indian is filled with pride and joy on this momentous occasion.
00:13However, when we talk of the stories of independence,
00:16it is something that fills everyone with emotions.
00:20It fills some with pride, it fills some with great sorrow.
00:25Today we have got two prominent books with us.
00:28One is Humanity Amidst Insanity and second is Warriors After War.
00:33And we have also got the author of these two books with us, Mr. Tridivesh Singh Meni.
00:39Welcome to the show, Mr. Meni.
00:40So, my first question to you is that what exactly was the inspiration
00:45and the striking point behind writing these two books?
00:50Essentially, there are two or three factors, I would say.
00:53The first is right from childhood.
00:56You know, my maternal grandparents and paternal grandparents,
01:00their roots were in West Punjab.
01:02So, one grew up on stories, not just about partition but even pre-partition.
01:08And one heard more about, in fact, one has grown up hearing about Kahoota,
01:13about Gujranwala and you know about obviously about Lahore.
01:17So, one was that aspect.
01:21The second was myself, you know, when I studied overseas and interacted with scholars
01:32from across the border, many of them obviously, you know, there are cultural similarities.
01:37And then you just begin to question the reasons what led to, you know, the divide.
01:45So, of course, the second factor, it's not necessarily that the interactions
01:51with people from other parts of South Asia, I would not say directly led to a curiosity
01:56but somewhere or the other that does play a role.
02:00The third is also that, you know, one read about the Holocaust and people drew parallels.
02:12But not much was done for very long on partition.
02:15So, that was obviously one aspect.
02:17And then even there were very serious works, serious, a lot of research had begun to happen.
02:25But obviously, I think the first partition, one was that, I think there was a serial called Tamas.
02:33I mean, I was very young then but one has memories of that.
02:36And then based on a novel and then The Train to Pakistan, Khushwant Singh's very famous novel.
02:46So, I think these were some of the important points.
02:51Now, I would also like to add here that for very long, it's a very important issue
02:59that the post-partition survivors, they were not able to overcome the trauma.
03:06So, even some of the prominent scholars and writers, they wrote on partition not based
03:12on their own stories but they wrote novels.
03:14But it is in the past two decades, you see a lot of work of that sort happening.
03:21And even I think oral history has become a very important tool.
03:26The first important work in this context was by Urvashi Bhutalia.
03:30There have been novels earlier but Urvashi Bhutalia's work was very important in terms
03:35of promoting oral history, the importance of oral history.
03:38So, I think these are some of the really important, anybody who, not just me but anybody who is
03:44in this generation or after is interested in partition, I think these are some of the
03:49important propelling factors.
03:50Mr. Turizavesh, these two books, can you tell us something more about these books?
03:56What is this exactly about and what kind of stories do these books have regarding the partition?
04:02The book basically, it's a co-edited book.
04:06On the Indian side, I carried out interviews and on the Pakistani side, there were two
04:11co-authors, Mr. Tahir Malik and Ali Farooq Malik.
04:15The first edition came out in 2008, the next edition came out in 2022.
04:21The focus, we have 20 stories, 10 on each side.
04:25The focus there is on instances where members of one community rescued members of another.
04:34So non-Muslims rescuing Muslims and vice versa or somebody who has been rescued.
04:41And there were some very interesting takeaways in that.
04:44So for instance, simply put, we blame religion for instance as one of the dividing factors.
04:50There were instances of religious priests of one community saving members of another.
04:56In some instances, people used religious symbols to disguise themselves also.
05:02Then the other is that the ordinary public, especially individuals coming from West Punjab,
05:09they actually did, some of them thought we will come back because they said,
05:13we have lived together for so long, we had various rulers, but we have lived together.
05:19And this is a question of few months and we will come back.
05:22There was one instance where an individual actually asked, a Sikh gentleman was asked
05:27to unfurl the flag of Pakistan.
05:29Then after that, in that area, the riots broke out and then he left after that.
05:34You know, what happens is when we look at, often when we look at, first of all,
05:39I think the scholarship of partition was often relegated to the sidelines.
05:43Because obviously, 15th August happens to be Independence Day, so the emphasis was on that.
05:51So in recent years, that of course has begun to change.
05:54There is more and more growing interest in partition.
05:59But also even the partition scholarship, it often missed out.
06:03It was based on, you know, the broader issues.
06:08So the human side of it, some of the, like I have just given you some, they never really came out.
06:13And how, you know, people also like, so for instance, this thing of, at a personal level,
06:20I can say you go to, till a few years ago when you went to India International Centre,
06:24people who had hailed from, who were from Lahore or from, there used to be one sort,
06:28it was an informal sort of club and they used to be discussing that, you know,
06:31we used to live like this in Lahore, we used to be discussing stories and all that.
06:35And that happens obviously even in Punjab, it happens in the rural areas,
06:38people who have migrated from that side.
06:40Of course, that generation is withering away now.
06:42These things were relegated to the sidelines.
06:44Now that has begun to change.
06:46The human side of it has begun to change.
06:49So one last question that definitely we were partitioned at a scale
06:54and an unprecedented violence followed after that.
06:57But regarding in this 21st century, how do you see India-Pakistan relations coming in the future days?
07:06I think in the future, one of the important aspects is social media has really changed.
07:11One, the first thing I would like to say is that social media has democratized the partition space.
07:18It was earlier relegated to certain sections of society.
07:23And you had to be an intellectual or a scholar,
07:27and it was done under the overall ambit of conceptual frameworks and theoretical frameworks.
07:33But the most important part is that in this region, everything happens according to word of mouth.
07:40So oral history had, I mean, you know, oral history interviews had started.
07:46But a lot of people, a lot of writers themselves were not, they were not articulate in the local languages.
07:51So you could not, you know, especially Punjabi, for instance, you could not actually, a lot of stories are missed out.
07:58Now, you have initiatives, you have, for instance, you have this partition archive,
08:07and the Punjabi Lehar channel from which started off across the border.
08:13I think that has done human service.
08:15It has, one, it has obviously gone to various parts of West Punjab,
08:21and, you know, stories regarding partition have come out.
08:26But it has also helped in reuniting families. A lot of families have got reunited.
08:31So these initiatives have been very important.
08:33And I may also mention here that interestingly, the Kartarpur religious corridor has,
08:42apart from obviously fulfilling the desires of pilgrims,
08:48and there's obviously, there's a yearning on this side of the border.
08:53For very long, there's a yearning that has been fulfilled.
08:55But even some of these families, family members were reunited after a very long Kartarpur religious corridor.
09:02So it has played a very important role in that.
09:04And I think for the future, it's very important to the next generation.
09:09One is, obviously, we must learn, there are certain aspects, as I said, which are relegated to the sidelines.
09:14There are positives also from the past. People have coexisted.
09:17So like, for instance, till 1965, the people-to-people contacts, the trade was there.
09:22So we need to learn that even after 47, yes, a lot of things happened.
09:26But 10 years after that, when people actually went that side, or, you know, Pakistanis came this side,
09:32there was bonhomie, you know, there were hockey matches, cricket matches.
09:36So if immediately after partition, you could get over that, at least we should strive for a manageable relationship.
09:44And it's very good to see sportspersons from both sides, in spite of the relations being strained.
09:50I think sportspersons have a very good cordial relationship.
09:53And what is also interesting is, you know, earlier, when cricket wasn't played for very long,
10:00when there weren't too many interactions, there used to be hostility, even between sportspersons.
10:05Now that is gone. So it's, you know, and I would like to add here that you need,
10:10the first thing is, I'm not getting into, you know, whether peace or conflict,
10:14there should at least be maturity. And the relationship should be one which is at least manageable and normal.
10:20There's, I mean, this unnecessary hostility, jingoism, ultra, I mean, that does good to no one at all.
10:27Well, Mr. Sudhivesh, thank you for this interview with us. Thank you.