John Jackson, friend of John O'Keefe , joins the show!
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00:00John O'Keefe was a Boston police officer who passed away in January of 2022 in
00:09Canton, Massachusetts. Courtney and I were invited to a dinner with Karen Reid
00:15who was accused of murder in that case and there were some, some who are texting
00:22now, some like maybe our next guest who were upset that we went to that
00:28dinner and posted a photo and so I, my obligation as a broadcaster is to, to
00:35give any and all who are upset the opportunity to respond and so John
00:41Jackson is here. John, how are you? Thanks, good morning. Thanks, thanks for coming
00:44in and you are a long time, were a longtime friend of John's, college
00:52buddies, college buddies, and you are here to represent a group of friends and
00:59others who, who kind of want the other side of the story to be told, am I right about that?
01:04Yeah, absolutely. So, it's not that we were really upset about the, you know, you guys
01:07going to do this, it is what it is, I mean, you do what you have to do but, you know,
01:11just like this opportunity, really, to get out and say the other side because we
01:15feel, like I said, I don't represent the O'Keefe family, I know them, I love them,
01:18they're fantastic, but I'm more like the lifelong friends of John, kind of got
01:22together and said, let's, let's, let's put some of these, uh, you know, some of
01:26these rumors to rest, some of this, some of the, you know, the untruths out there to
01:30rest and just talk, talk about him, get him back to the front and center of this.
01:34Yeah, if I could, and I think that that's why Greg and I took the opportunity to
01:40sit down with her as well because there was so much out there and whether it's
01:45social media or watching the live stream during the trial, it has become a circus
01:51and I can't imagine being a friend of his and watching this all unfold, but for
01:58Greg and I, we weren't there, so for me, I wanted to sit down with somebody and
02:03ask the questions that were on my mind and when the opportunity presented itself
02:07and to sit down with her and me be able to say, I've heard this, I've heard this,
02:12I've heard this, and have somebody give me something, I thought that was important
02:16and so that's why I'm so happy that you're here too because it is important
02:19to get both sides, but we've been very forthcoming in the fact that we both
02:24believe that John O'Keefe deserves justice and if she did not do it, we,
02:30that's important too. Of course, I mean, you know, we obviously, our side, right,
02:35we, you know, we feel a certain way about it, but you know, as far as, but what is
02:40that way because it's important for you, you're here, so you have, you have
02:44determined that she did it. Yeah, oh definitely. Okay. Definitely. So, so let's
02:51let's talk a little bit first. Let me talk about him, if you don't mind. Yeah.
02:54Let me just start with Johnny. Yeah. Let me talk about Johnny. Johnny was a fantastic guy,
02:57right, so like I said, lifelong friends got together and said, let's, during the
03:01first trial, we kind of just sat back and we all kind of agreed, let's not be the
03:04reason anything goes wrong here. We know the truth's on our side, you know, the
03:08evidence is there, let's let it play out and we did and we sat back. What we
03:12underestimated was the outside noise in the social media, sort of groundswell, if
03:18you will, that that took off and just, it's, the narrative got away from
03:21everybody and of course, we watched the trial and we, we know what we saw in the
03:26trial. Now, we can talk about later if you want, obviously, but you know, all that
03:32stuff aside, the thing that's getting sort of pushed to the background is
03:36Johnny, you know, and so, so as, as one of his friends, you know, we want to make
03:40sure that, you know, it's his, his memory, the thought, everybody who, who thinks
03:45about this trial, thinks about him first, right? Put his thought in your mind first
03:49because that's ultimately the real victim here, the ultimate victim here, no
03:53matter what you believe in this case, he's, he's the guy and you said it
03:56yourself, justice for Johnny, but I mean, he was such a tremendous guy, a tremendous
04:01guy and I'll tell you a little bit, so we went to Northeastern together, right, in
04:05those years, we AF all the time, yeah, Hill, Hill man, right, so all the crazy
04:08shows, it's just like, so funny guy, we commute together, we didn't live there, we
04:13commuted, so, you know, he had this terrible car back in the day, I can't even say the
04:18word he called it, but you know, he had this terrible car, we drive in and it was
04:21a song, Gallows Pole, you guys played it all the time, right, you know, and he was
04:28pretty straight-laced, you know, great sense of humor, but he was, you know, pretty put
04:31together and every time the song came on, he'd roll the windows up, so he could
04:35belt it out, like as loud as he could, you know what I mean, yeah, and just, just
04:38really let it go and then, soon as the song's over, roll the windows down, like, I just, but
04:44every morning, you guys, you know, all the time, but I mean, just for change and all that, so I don't know, I would
04:49include myself in this, that I don't think there are a lot of guys who would
04:54do what he did when it came to adopting his niece and nephew, yeah, yeah, so, and so
05:01sounded like, and my interest in this is that, first of all, my interest like
05:07everybody, like you, I wasn't there, I don't know what happened, yeah, you, yeah,
05:13you don't know what happened, no, well, I mean, right, right, in terms of like
05:19eyewitnesses and stuff, like there's no way, right, of course, well, well, explain to me,
05:24if you do know what happened, sure, so how do you know what happened, so let's,
05:29let's start back, let's start back with, again, being close to the family, right, so
05:32the family and friends, we all, we all know him and his personality and who he
05:35was and, you know, he was, he was not like a, an intensely like violent guy or
05:41anything, he was pretty laid back and like it, it wasn't like, so to hear these
05:45stories about like fights and anger and resentment with other, you know, we can
05:49get into Colin Albrecht or anything you want, right, so all this stuff, it just
05:53wasn't his nature ever, you know, at all, so to hear like, oh, he had a beef with
05:58this guy and that, like, it's just, just wasn't his personality, first of all,
06:03we can start at the base there, but then after the situation, immediately after
06:06the situation happened, the family and the close friends all got kind of these
06:11vibes from, from her saying, you know, like she just changed on a dime, like her
06:16person, the way she interacted with the family and it kind of set them back, as
06:19you know, they, you, you met her, obviously, I've never actually met her in
06:24person, just, you know, but, you know, she's engaging and likable and, and, you
06:30know, some of the closer friends were like, they, you know, just didn't expect
06:35it, but when, when it happened and she changed on a dime and that was it, she
06:39cut the family off, cut the friends off, you know, and that was it, so those are
06:43kind of like telegraphing as to, you know, possible reasons why the family
06:48considered her right away. I will say that she would echo your sentiment,
06:53though, that, that he was not an aggressive guy, that he was not somebody,
06:57she told us, because I made sure to ask the question, I saw the rumors that
07:01John may have brought to light maybe Colin Albert and some drug accusations
07:07before this all went down and she said that never happened, people are trying to
07:10make it more dramatic, they're trying to add more, more flame to the fire and so
07:16for me, if you believe so strongly that she did it and just looking at the
07:21evidence, how could she have been there and, and hit him at the time that they
07:29say he died if she was already at his house? Sure, you're talking about the
07:34Wi-Fi. Yes, yeah, well, because I'm just, that's just my mind when watching this.
07:39Sure, so, I mean, we can get specifically into it, like, in terms of like the car
07:43data and stuff like, you know, so, so the Lexus, her Lexus had tech stream data on
07:47and, you know, which, which these guys did not, did not even look at their experts in,
07:53in, in this tech stream data, it's on their website saying this is what we do, it's,
07:57it's the most, you know, and they didn't bother looking at, so, so we don't know what
08:01their questions, right, we can get into that too, but we don't know what they were actually
08:04looking for if they decided what they decided without looking for it, but that tech stream
08:09data, you know, if you follow the timeline there, there's about five or six minutes
08:14between the time, close to five, I mean, it depends on if it's, you know, 459 or whatever,
08:21right, so, there's about five minutes there between when we believe the accident happened
08:25and when the Wi-Fi connected. Now, the Wi-Fi can connect outside the house, you can pull
08:30in the driveway and that Wi-Fi can connect, it doesn't have to be, I'm sitting in front
08:33of the router, you know what I mean, just can, so, you know, let me just ask you this,
08:39you believe, and, and I'm assuming that the family and friends believe that in, you know,
08:45in, in the United States, I think five percent, maybe less, slightly less of the murders are
08:53committed by women, and so, you, your belief is that, and again, you were talking about
08:59how John would not be, is not the kind of person who would, who would get into a fight,
09:04so, you're, you know, you're, you're making that character judgment about John,
09:10and rightly so, knowing him, do, do you, do you at all question that, that a, that five percent
09:17of these murders are committed by women, and this is somebody who was a Bentley professor,
09:22worked at Fidelity, had, you know, had not been in trouble previously and, and just decided on
09:29that night? Well, I, I mean, I wouldn't say just decide, I mean, you're talking about five percent
09:35of, of, of the population, but it's one person, let me talk about one person, right, so, you know,
09:40you can throw all those stats out and just think, this one person had whatever happened that night,
09:44whether, you know, highly intoxicated, highly intoxicated, and, you know, I, I won't get into
09:51the, but, but highly intoxicated in that moment, whatever happened in that moment, there was,
09:56there was something, right, that, that happened, so. I want to ask this question, because I,
10:01I wasn't as, as vested as Greg and Courtney is, does the family and you guys believe that it was
10:08something that was just, everybody was kind of very drunk, and it was an accident, or does they
10:16feel like there was a little bit of intent there? Sure, so I, I can speak to that, I'll speak about
10:21me personally, I just, but, so, yeah, good, good question, because, you know, at the moment,
10:27it probably was an accident, right, like in the moment, at that moment, like the act was intentional,
10:33right, what she did was intentional, but she's intoxicated, it was, you know, they're probably
10:37arguing and fighting or whatever, and there was a, you know, the act was probably, probably
10:43accidental, but the problem that we have is that happened at 12 30-ish at night, right,
10:49didn't find him at six o'clock in the morning, right, so what happened in those, in that time frame,
10:54all those, you know, we know she called her parents at one o'clock in the morning, who, who calls
10:57their parents at one o'clock in the morning, because I just saw my boyfriend walk into the
11:01house of a party, I dropped him out, so, maybe, maybe it was a butt dial, hey, maybe it was a butt
11:05dial, there were a lot of butt dials, there was a lot of butt dials, we can get into that too, but,
11:08you know, do those bother you at all? Oh, sure, look, I'll tell you flat out now, like,
11:13uh, again, talking, speaking of myself, you know, we're not, the investigation wasn't perfect,
11:20right, to say the least, well, that's what I want to get into, so the jury, it was a mistrial,
11:24yep, um, and I don't know any other way to, I assume you think that the state did not do a
11:30good job prosecuting the case, uh, well, we'll find out in terms of, with those affidavits and
11:37stuff, what actually happened with the jury, you know, the actual numbers of the jury, but it was
11:41a mistrial, it was a mistrial, yeah, so, so the jury was not able to come to a unanimous verdict,
11:47that's the way the justice system works, of course, so, so, yeah, in terms of, do we think
11:53the prosecution didn't do a good job, uh, I'll say it, let me rephrase it and say it, all the
11:58evidence that needed to be in front of that jury was in front of that jury to convict, if they,
12:03if they wanted it, it was there, um, hopefully, it gets repackaged in the second trial and delivered
12:09a little bit differently, my opinion, right, so, because everything that, that was necessary to
12:13convict her was there, you know, if she is found not guilty in the next trial, do you think that
12:19you, in seeking justice for John, will want to find out what happened, uh, I mean, are you, look,
12:27so, so you're asking almost two, yeah, you're asking almost two different questions, like,
12:31so the family knows and the friends know what happened, okay, so, so if it's not, you know,
12:36I don't want to jump ahead, but if you're, if we're taking a hypothetical that she's not
12:39convicted in the next trial, well, I'm only taking it because she wasn't convicted in this one, of
12:43course, and there's, and there's, you know, depending on how this goes, there's going to
12:46be another trial, right, in terms of, uh, uh, there's gonna be another trial, but do we still
12:52know, we know, you know, we know what happened, but is that fair in the, look, it's, you're talking
12:57about fairness is different than being able to prove something in a court of law, right, so
13:01you can, we can talk about fairness, you know, Joni's not here, that's, that's not fair, right,
13:06so, so that's, that's, that's the most important thing for us, but if she's not convicted the second
13:12time, I mean, what are we going to do, if, like, we'll say if there's a not guilty, right, if
13:16there's a not guilty, well, that's, that's the end of that, right, I mean, that's, that's how it is,
13:20she, she would have been found to have, uh, not guilty in the court of law, and there's,
13:25there's a lot of hands are tied then, right, but you, you bring up, like, what did she do,
13:29though, between the time she left the party and then, uh, the next morning when Jon's body was
13:33found, they do have record, like, she called him 30 plus times, 100 phone, something, phone calls,
13:41sure, but there are over 30 voicemails, so during that time, we do know what she was doing,
13:47do you, does that raise suspicion to you at all, that she didn't know what was, like,
13:52she didn't know where he was, well, you, so, because if she was so drunk, I just don't know
13:56if you can, uh, have the wherewithal to be able to say, I'm, I'm going to premeditate it to look
14:03like I'm looking for him. Okay, so we talk premeditations a little bit different, too,
14:06right, you're talking about something different than, than, like, so, for instance, her actions
14:13to us show that she knows, she knew she did something wrong, right, and in those critical
14:18hours between, say, 1 a.m. or 12 30 and 6 a.m., possibly could have saved his life if she made
14:24different decisions, that's my opinion, right, so, so, when you talk about the murder to charge,
14:30the third prong of that charge is, is, is the intent charge, right, but the intent is not,
14:35did she premeditate it, did she intend to do it, the intent is, did she intend to do an act,
14:39right, like, the act of doing it, the act is driving the car backwards 24 miles an hour,
14:4460 something feet, hitting junk, that's the act, right? Yeah, I'm sorry, my premeditation, uh,
14:51topic was about the phone calls, like, was she sitting at home after doing this knowing she did
14:55it and say, okay, I'm gonna call him over 100 times, leave over 30 voicemails to make it look
15:00like I was worried and looking for him, that's what I'm talking about, but if you're that hammered,
15:04I don't think you have the capacity to be able to do that. So, obviously, we don't know, right,
15:10obviously, we don't know, and I will never speak to her, so I'll never get a chance to ask you that
15:14question, but you have to think, uh, whatever happened in that moment that caused her to, to,
15:19to act the way she did and drive the car in reverse at that speed, at that crazy speed,
15:24hit him and move and drive away, you know, that, that is, you know, if we called it,
15:28we were talking earlier about, you know, was it intentional, was an accident, you know, whatever
15:32it was, she did the act, she drove it, she, she drove and then she left him, still drunk,
15:37still hysterical, those actions in there, you, you know, people act differently, obviously,
15:42in the moments, so those actions for the next 30 plus voice, whatever the voicemails were, I'm not,
15:46I don't keep the numbers, right, but whatever that was, you can't say it was necessarily
15:51rational, could have been intoxicated, it could have been hysterical, could have been whatever
15:55that reason is, I mean, some of the voicemails alluded to him stepping out or whatever,
15:59wasn't true, but in her mind, it was, you know, so, uh, so she's acting as like,
16:06like, I try, I try not to talk about her too much, but like those, those, those voicemails
16:10indicate a sort of jealous rage, right, that's what it sort of feels like, and so that moment
16:16of the accident, it feels the same way, right, to us, that, that moment was probably an incident of
16:20jealous rage, to us would be, you were talking about five percent of women, right, still domestic
16:24violence, right, so she still, she still did the act, left him and left, and then those voicemails
16:30and everything indicate her, her state of mind at the time, right, so do I think she was trying
16:37to cover her tracks, not, not, not at that point, but maybe like 4 30 when, you know,
16:42things start wearing off, we've all kind of been there a little bit, things start wearing off,
16:45and you start coming to the reality of, oh, um, I may have, may have done something,
16:50and, you know, the phone call she made from, to Kerry Roberts and the other people,
16:55and I was just going to say, is there concern with the family and friends of John O'Keefe moving
17:01forward, that based off the first trial and the way that evidence might have been presented or
17:08obtained, that there could be a chance that she gets off on the second one, and you, you guys
17:15view it as somebody did a horrific act, and they're now walking free. Yeah, that's, that's a
17:21worst case scenario for us, but yeah, but absolutely, that's 100 percent a fear of ours,
17:27you know, like you said, first trial, we think the evidence was in front of the jury,
17:30like to see it repackaged and maybe delivered a little bit better, but uh, you know, other than
17:34that, uh, fear of ours is, yeah, and you know, obviously the jury pool, everybody around here
17:39knows about this, like, when it comes to something like this, which, which captured the public's
17:44attention, um, do, is it your opinion as a friend of John's, that it, that we should not interview
17:52Karen Reid, if Karen Reid is available, uh, listen, you got, you do whatever you want,
17:56you do whatever you want, all we ask is, is fairness in it, right, and that's why you want
17:59to come in today, you guys do whatever you, of course, and your message, because it's important
18:02to me that we get that out, is that you don't want John O'Keefe and the kind of guy that he was
18:09to be lost in all of this. Absolutely, absolutely, that's, that's, that's literally the most
18:14important thing to us, you know, the trial is, is, I, I say to my kids all the time, the worst
18:20thing already happened, so if she's found not guilty a second time, the worst thing already
18:24happened, yeah, he's not here, that's, that's, we've already experienced the worst part of it,
18:28the O'Keefe family has experienced the worst thing they, they could after losing,
18:32uh, you know, Kristen too, Johnny's amazing sister, so, um, you know, the worst thing happened,
18:38so, uh, it would be salt, salt in the wounds, and, and, uh, we'd miss a little bit of justice
18:43on that, yeah, well, absolutely, but, you know, can't bring it back, yeah, and that's what we,
18:49we want to keep going here. Listen, I appreciate you coming in, um, and I, I,
18:54I give more to ask, well, no, I, I, I, I didn't say it in the beginning, and I just want to say
18:58now, because it is important, and I am sorry, like, I'm so sorry for your loss, because looking
19:03at you now, like, you can tell the emotion that you still have, and everything we have heard
19:08from everybody, people have called the show, people we've met in person, but also Karen,
19:13is that he was a great, great guy, so I, I'm, I'm so sorry, and it's, uh, I, I hope that it
19:20is less of a circus for you the second time around, yeah, that's kind of what we're, we're
19:24out here trying to do is just, you know, you get the other side out there, love to come back and
19:28talk if there's more about it, you know, we'll, we'll keep things open, and, and we'll do this
19:32again if we need to, all right, so, all right, John, appreciate it, thanks, thanks for having
19:35on, thank you very much for coming by, guys, thank you, appreciate it, Curtis, you didn't
19:38ask him, uh, about Jacobi Brissett and Drake May, well, I, I just, what, I didn't want to
19:42get to the most important part of the conversation too soon, uh, put Drake May in, just put him in,
19:47here we go, let's do it, I mean, let's go, we like, we like Brissett, he's great, but,
19:52like, let's just do it, I had to hold Jackson back, he had, like, 16 questions, he was ready,
19:57all right, John, thank you, thank you, guys, appreciate it,