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00:00I know you've probably talked a lot about the car and all the projects and Koenigsegg,
00:07but today we kind of really want to focus a bit more about you, about let's say the
00:11challenges you went through building Koenigsegg.
00:13Sure.
00:14Absolutely.
00:15And maybe like also the challenges which were before Koenigsegg was a thing, you know, because
00:22many people always see these, let's say, finished products, they see a car down there, they
00:28don't know exactly what's been going on to get to that level.
00:31And that's for us the interesting part.
00:34We've called this podcast The Lobster Fight.
00:38And too many people we spoke with already here are like, why is it called The Lobster
00:44Fight?
00:45Yeah.
00:46Interesting name.
00:47It's different.
00:48It's different, but it really means these challenges that we go through in life or difficulties,
00:54how we handle them defines if we come out of them as a stronger lobster or a weaker
01:00one.
01:01Right.
01:02And that's why we want to go today with this episode of The Lobster Fight.
01:07So the thing I know about lobsters in that regard, I think is whatever Jordan B. Peterson
01:12was talking about.
01:13Correct.
01:14Is that from him?
01:15Correct.
01:16That is cool.
01:17You know, it's not many people you can put in front of a microphone, they'll get that
01:19reference straight away.
01:21So compliment you for that.
01:23That means that you probably understand them, not the methodology, but the metaphor behind
01:28it?
01:29A bit, yes.
01:30I heard him speak about it.
01:33And it's interesting, especially the emotional aspect of lobsters.
01:37And how old they are and kind of makes you maybe not want to eat them when you think
01:40about it.
01:41You're right.
01:42You're right.
01:43You're right.
01:44But this was what, let's say, inspired us to have a common name for the podcast to set
01:48the framework where we want to take the chat.
01:52Let's get into it and see where today brings us.
01:55Sure.
01:56I will then start by asking you the defining moment in your life that put you on the course
02:05of where you are today, if you can think of it.
02:08Yeah, I mean, I get the question a lot, I guess.
02:12Why do you build cars?
02:13And the first years of doing Koenigsegg, I kind of answered, yeah, you know, I was always
02:18interested in cars as a kid and something I really love.
02:22And then usually the comeback was, yeah, but there are a lot of people who are car interested
02:26that are not doing what you're doing.
02:28I said, yeah, I guess.
02:29So why?
02:31And then I started thinking more deeper about it.
02:32When was my first memory of wanting to build cars?
02:38And it comes back to, and it's also my father's kind of, he helped me remember this because
02:44he remembered it very vividly.
02:47And it's also my first memory, maybe because he reminded me, I don't know, but anyway,
02:51when I was about six years old, my father took me to the movies and we saw a Norwegian
02:58sort of stop motion puppet movie.
03:01This was like in 1977 or 1976, this was way before computer animations existed really.
03:10And there was this kind of intricately made puppet movie about a bicycle repairman who
03:18was like an inventor and he lived on top of a mountaintop, similar to this we have in
03:22front of us here, Lake Como.
03:24And he had this bicycle repair shop up there with his two helpers.
03:28And they started building this crazy wild race car that he wanted to compete with.
03:34And then he took it to kind of a Le Mans style race and beat the Porsche, the Ferraris.
03:40And it was so well made.
03:41It was like, even though I showed my kids a couple of years back, I thought it's going
03:45to be horrible, this movie.
03:46I haven't seen it for many, many years, but it was still as amazing.
03:49So well made.
03:51And well, so he raced all these famous brands with this kind of home cooked thing.
03:58And it had a lot of inventions and a rocket engine and a 12 liter engine and some strange,
04:04it was a lot of strange inventions.
04:05And he won the race, of course, after some struggles.
04:09And I apparently told my father that when I grew up, I want to be that bicycle repairman
04:15and build a car like that.
04:16So I started drawing cars.
04:18I started buying car magazines for all my pocket money.
04:23And yeah, and just had this vision of I'm going to build a car when I have a chance.
04:28So when I was 19 years old, I kind of felt a bit fed up with school and I'd felt like
04:36that for a while and wanted to get out there and do stuff.
04:39And especially, of course, having this dream of a car, but I understood I need some kind
04:44of platform to create a car, I don't have the resources.
04:50So I started a company, I had some ideas for inventions and things, generally speaking,
04:57which I thought maybe I can make a patent, maybe I can make a little bit of money.
05:00But I also started kind of buying and selling things to make money.
05:04So I found out that after the Iron Curtain fell in the Baltic States, which is close
05:09to Sweden, they needed a lot of things that they didn't have, like ballpoint pens or plastic
05:14bags and things like that.
05:15And then I found ways of buying that very cheaply in Sweden with like wrongly printed
05:20plastic bags and commercial pens with prints upside down or things like that, that you
05:26could not use or sell in Sweden, but they were happy to have a plastic bag and have
05:31a ballpoint pen.
05:32So I could buy it almost for nothing and sell it very cheaply, and make some money
05:36on that.
05:37And it turned into a little bit of a business with some other products as well.
05:40And after two years, we were like three employees, and I had an office in Stockholm, made some
05:45money.
05:47And I was feeling pretty good about myself.
05:49But then I one day in the summer of 1994, I was 22 years old, and I said to myself,
05:55so I wanted to build cars, I'm importing, exporting stuff.
05:58So that's not really what I want to do, even though it's kind of fun and making money.
06:03If I don't do it now, I probably will never do it.
06:07It's going to take a long time.
06:09And it's going to be difficult.
06:10So I better start now.
06:12So I opened up my Windows computer, opened up the simple program paint and started doing
06:18line drawings of my dream car I had been thinking about for a long time.
06:23And then I took those drawings to a friend of a friend who was an industrial designer
06:28saying this is my idea for the car.
06:30This kind of proportions, low overhang, mid engine, removable hardtop, wraparound screen,
06:34this and this and that.
06:35Can you can you help me sketch up something artistic around these ideas?
06:40So we started doing that.
06:41And then we did a kind of a clay model and we kind of backwards and forwards together.
06:46And then two years later, that clay model turned into a running prototype.
06:51Pretty rough one, but we introduced it at Anders Torp Raceway in Sweden on one of the
06:58GT1 races where you had McLaren F1s, Ferrari F40s and things like that.
07:03Here is the new Swedish supercar, as it was called at the time.
07:08And yeah, so it was a bit of a tough years, very difficult to do that.
07:13It was a very rough car, but it was driving well.
07:16And it kind of proved that to myself and that I could build something that worked and that
07:22had some kind of purpose and meaning.
07:24And it took several years before there was actually a production car with several iterations.
07:29So we showed the first production car in the year 2000 and we delivered the first CC8S
07:37as a production car with the world record for the world's most powerful homologated
07:41car Guinness record and delivered the first car in 2002.
07:46So that's kind of the story.
07:49For me, it's amazing.
07:51It's cool to hear how you take it back to when you were six years old.
07:57You would imagine that you have a person in their mid-20s, late-20s who wants to build
08:01cars because it's a passion or it's cool or something, but you having this connection
08:07as a, I don't know, even like an entrepreneur at heart or like innovator of seeing something
08:13visually in a movie at six years old and realizing like, this is going to be the way I'm going
08:19to, this is going to make my business.
08:22Right.
08:23And what's interesting, during my teenage years and so on, when I was still sketching
08:27cars, I was kind of buying car magazines for my pocket money because I haven't, I'm not
08:32an engineer.
08:33I'm not a software programmer.
08:35I'm basically nothing.
08:37I'm an entrepreneur.
08:38So to me, like if I'm going to build a car, I need to learn somehow.
08:43So I kind of bought all the car magazines I could find and I started looking at all
08:48normal cars, sports cars, whatever.
08:50Why are they different?
08:51What is different about them?
08:53What is that detail on that car?
08:55How does that compare?
08:56What were they thinking when they did that?
08:58The corner of that door or how the glass meets the A pillar or how it meets the door or the
09:04seat or the leather or the lamp or tire or wheel, trying to figure out why are they different?
09:09What were they thinking?
09:11Why were they thinking like that?
09:12And what would I do?
09:14So always thinking like, how should I improve on that?
09:18So it was a very strange school.
09:20Whether I was right or wrong, you know, that's how I came to my ideas and visions of what
09:26I wanted.
09:27And then, of course, by doing in reality, you learn and you kind of build up on that.
09:33But I remember, I mean, building the first car was very much based on those like 10,
09:3915 years of just thinking about doing it and how I wanted to do it.
09:44And of course, being inspired by this bicycle repairman movie, he had a lot of unique features
09:50and functions and crazy stuff in his car.
09:52So I also wanted to like, how can I do it in a different way?
09:58But not only to be different, but to make it better.
10:02And then you really need to study what everyone else is doing to try to do it better.
10:07Then in the end, of course, the result is sort of in the eyes of the beholder and anyone
10:12can judge whether they think it's better or not or whatever.
10:17From a performance perspective and the other perspective, I think it's proven itself.
10:21Design and styling and this is, of course, a matter of taste.
10:25But that's how it came about.
10:29And I remember when I decided to do it, I was kind of very prepared to be, I mean, I'm
10:38a kid basically, 22 years old in Sweden.
10:41No formal education, very little financial means.
10:49So I was very much prepared.
10:50And also at the time, it was just after a recession, it was kind of the end of a recession
10:55and all the supercar brands were kind of going broke or even Bugatti went into bankruptcy.
11:01The Italian version of it, like two years after I started, the McLaren F1 had just come
11:05out.
11:06They could hardly sell it.
11:07But the car magazine said there is no more future for the supercar, as it was called.
11:12And I said, well, you know, I don't care.
11:14I decided 15 years ago I was going to do this, market or no market.
11:18I will build my car and maybe someone will want it.
11:21Maybe the world will change, who knows.
11:23In the end, the world changed and there was a life for supercars and hypercars for sure
11:29after that recession.
11:30But what I'm trying to say is it was not a business idea.
11:34I was the wrong person at the wrong place, with the wrong background, with no market
11:40for the established brands and definitely no market for my brand.
11:44And that was like, OK, let's do it, you know, I love that.
11:49And then when you realize, I mean, that was a realization I had when I started it.
11:53That's how it is, you know.
11:54So I was prepared for anything.
11:58I mean, it was very difficult, but I was prepared for people laughing or saying I'm an idiot
12:03or technical challenges or financial challenges, whatever it was.
12:07I was like, of course, yeah, it's going to be like that.
12:09But I have no choice.
12:11I need to do this because that is what I decided so many years ago and I don't want to do anything else.
12:17And that makes it easy because you don't have to think about if it's a good or a bad choice.
12:21You just have to do it because that's who you are pretty much.
12:25And I read somewhere quite recently that the personality of a person is very much shaped
12:32before like 10, 11 years old.
12:34It's like your experience, of course, how you're who you are when you're born is maybe one thing as well.
12:39But your experiences and influences to create the personality that you become is very much set at that age.
12:46And it's difficult to change later.
12:48And I saw that movie when I was six years old.
12:51So and it was immediately fascinating, stayed fascinating for years.
12:55So I had no way out.
12:56I just had to build that car.
12:58Then I come from a family of entrepreneurs.
13:03My mother, they're both retired now, my parents.
13:06But my mother was a millionaire making hats, designing hats.
13:10So creative kind of profession, making things by hand, designing and creating.
13:16And so she was kind of an entrepreneur designer.
13:19My father was always an entrepreneur and they never kind of told me I need to be a doctor or a lawyer or do this or that.
13:25It's like you do whatever you want kind of thing.
13:28So having been pre-programmed by that movie, having parents who are entrepreneurs telling me, yeah, you do whatever you want, you know.
13:35So that, of course, was, I guess, helpful not being directed in any way.
13:40So so and here we are a few years later, I guess.
13:45Amazing. You were mentioning earlier, we had the absolute pleasure to listen to you introduce your new car and you named it after your father.
13:56And the thing that I thought was very interesting was that you said that your father, you called it after your father because he helped you a lot in times where you were quite struggling in the business.
14:07What kind of struggles were you facing at that point?
14:09Yeah. So as I mentioned, I had this little business.
14:12I made some money. I decided to start in 1994 and kind of after one year, prototype starting to look like some parts and a chassis and an engine, some wheels and things.
14:24We were like two or three people working on it. My money ran out.
14:29And my father was I mean, even though my parents were supportive in that, I was allowed to become whoever I wanted or with no opinion from their side.
14:38They still kind of was shaking their heads a little bit.
14:42This is pretty far out there, son, you know what you're trying to do.
14:46So he came. I was in a small village in Sweden where I set up the shop and he came to visit.
14:52And I was like, couldn't pay almost for anything, buy nothing.
14:56We're just working with the little stuff we had.
14:59And he being an entrepreneur, he was in the climate industry for early kind of computer controlled climate systems for industrial buildings.
15:09And he had a share in that company and he was about to kind of soon get retired.
15:14So he sold his share in that company and was thinking, I'm going to get retired or do something else.
15:19And then he came and visit and he saw kind of how hard we were fighting.
15:23There was actually something there. And he said, you know, maybe I can give you a little bridge loan and try to help you.
15:29Maybe we can find some finance or something like that.
15:33And that ended up with him kind of sleeping in my small apartment together with me for one and a half, two years.
15:39We kind of absorbed his retirement fund during that period, making my mother and my sisters a little bit nervous and actually me as well,
15:48because I didn't want to kind of kind of jeopardize the family, you know, it wasn't a lot of money, but it was helpful.
15:56And of course, it made me even more motivated because now suddenly I have this support from my family and I was kind of responsible for that as well,
16:05which was maybe not exactly my dream, but but it made it possible to finish the first prototype,
16:13show it and and to take the next stepping stone and finally getting in some venture capital from people who supported,
16:21who saw they were serious and that we could go into production.
16:24And of course, looking back at it without that support at the time and without,
16:33let's say, his commitment and help as an entrepreneur, I don't think I would have made it.
16:38And also. Not unimportantly, kind of feeling that responsibility for the whole family, I had even it's not that I wasn't motivated,
16:47but I had like total motivation, you know, I just have to make it work.
16:52So so and I'm grateful for that.
16:55You know, you kind of jump off the cliff and then you then you have to kind of invent your parachute on your way down by restitching your clothes.
17:04Otherwise you hit the ground, you know, you just do whatever you have to do.
17:07Right. So so so, yeah.
17:10And that that that that made me even more, I think, resilient and determined and and the impossible became possible.
17:20I really like that. So when he turned 18 in 2019, we were introducing this new model at the Geneva Motor Show.
17:29And my colleague actually said, shouldn't we call it after your father?
17:33That's a brilliant idea.
17:34So I really thank you for that idea.
17:37And and so he came to the show.
17:39He usually comes to every show.
17:41He's still he's 85 now, but it's very, very still going strong.
17:45And and he didn't know.
17:48So, yeah, he was kind of asked for the press release first.
17:50And so I want to see the press. You know, we can't really show this was surprising.
17:54So we kind of made up the press release.
17:55We call the we call the the car like Ragnarok or something.
17:59And it's a nice car.
18:01I don't like the name.
18:02So no worries, no worries.
18:05And then we unveiled it and it got very, very emotional.
18:08So that is really, really awesome.
18:10I like the fact that you speak of resilience and you mentioned it at the very end of this of the story where the name of Jesko came from,
18:19because I believe that the true the true trait of a real entrepreneur is the resilience and the resilience is something you're given when you're out there making that parachute.
18:32By yourself, you also having the responsibility of your family sort of in your hands, handed over to you willingly by them because they see their son is really burning for something.
18:45And that is something that is, I think, in today really rare that you have a family which is so supportive to let their to let their kids at the time excel at what they want to do
18:58and then having the resilience to succeed, because this could have been an absolute failure had you not had the resilience.
19:03Could have been absolutely awful for a lot of people.
19:06Yeah, exactly.
19:07Not only me. I mean, I was young.
19:08I could have was restart, but but my parents were already old and this was kind of their savings.
19:14So yeah, so I think that resilience that the fact that you had that resilience to keep it going, is that something you you always knew that you were capable of?
19:23Like, is there something you did maybe early in your life that proved you were really resilient as a person?
19:29Good question.
19:32Did I do something particular?
19:34Well, it's more I kind of had always the attitude that how should I put it?
19:42Whatever we do in life.
19:46It seems to end eventually, right?
19:48So far for everyone.
19:52Right.
19:53So there is like no sacrifice of trying your hardest or, or you're sitting on a park bench your whole life feeding ducks or something.
20:03In the end, we're all gone.
20:05So there is no better or worse path maybe to being gone.
20:09I just found it more interesting with that thought to give it my best of anything I can do while I'm here, because I have nothing to lose.
20:17I'm going to be gone anyway, right?
20:19So it's kind of the opposite of I'm not trying to work my way out of not disappearing.
20:26It's the other aspect is we're anyway all going to disappear.
20:29So it's no cost working day and night super hard.
20:32It costs nothing because I'm going to be gone anyway in the end.
20:35So you can argue there's no reason to do anything.
20:38I argue it's a reason to do everything while I'm here.
20:42And I think that's kind of and I started thinking like that as a kid.
20:45So I think that's a very simple motivational force.
20:50There's nothing to lose to just do whatever you want and work your ass off because we're all gone in the end anyway.
20:58Kind of strange motivation.
20:59No, no, no.
21:00I think it's the best motivation I've heard.
21:02In fact, yes, because you have now we are living in a period in a time of quick, quick, what do you say?
21:09Quick solutions that if tomorrow the problem isn't gone, then I'm going to quit or whatever.
21:13Right, right.
21:14So to have that approach of giving you all because in the end, if you don't, it's waste.
21:21And if you fail, OK, I'm going to be gone anyway.
21:24Yeah, doesn't really matter failing or winning.
21:26Yeah. And and when I remember when it was really tough and difficult, which was many, many times the first 10 years or so, or maybe a little bit longer.
21:35I always remember it's really, really tough and I don't even know if we'll make it to next week.
21:40This is great that I'm allowed to be around to do this and have this fight and I'm still here and maybe it doesn't work next week, but I could even remember surprising myself even at that time to be able to enjoy the moment of close to defeat with the most likely outcome of being defeat and still feeling OK about it.
22:02Yeah. So because with this kind of fundamental thought that, as I explained first, it's OK.
22:09So.
22:11I you just speak about the moment that we always talk in this in the lobster fight about the presence, people having such a difficult time being present.
22:19And I think you being in such a not a struggling position, but you had to be truly present every day to just make it to the next day, sort of.
22:30And just let's let's zoom back like one hour ago.
22:34We were downstairs looking at the release of the Jesko in this incredible scenery of Como, where we in this amazing villa, amazing people around.
22:43The weather is amazing. You're telling very passionately about how you created your car.
22:49And I'm looking around the people and I looked at Sean as well.
22:53And we just get that eye contact like, yep, there's zero presence here.
22:56Everyone on the phone just being there, not as a person present, listening word by word to what you're saying, but making a video of so to say, OK, I was there.
23:08But I actually don't.
23:09They were filming.
23:10Don't profoundly heard what Christian said.
23:13I don't felt it.
23:14I didn't see the car with my with my my my whole body.
23:20And you going through such an experience of making these cars for the past 30 years or so has forced you every day to be present, present, present.
23:28Right. But that is I think you're right.
23:30Yeah, it's it's a gift, more or less, that you can put yourself there.
23:37Exactly. I was thinking of saying something.
23:41And I mean, it is.
23:45Yeah, presence is a good word, I think.
23:47It's being here all the time, thinking about every aspect and enjoying it.
23:52I mean, I feel in many ways I haven't gone to work a day in my life.
23:57I mean, I've fought very, very hard, but it it never felt like work.
24:02It's like a passion of what I like to do.
24:05So so it and I don't feel like worn out.
24:09I mean, I work a lot and very, very hard, but I don't feel at all worn out.
24:14And sometimes it's stressful, but it's not like there is a negative stress, even when it's difficult.
24:19It's like it's something to deal with, which is exciting somehow.
24:25I think the excitement part is important to keep on to that.
24:28If you were to say this to other people, how can they achieve this?
24:32Is this something you teach your your kids?
24:35Is there a way to teach them actually to put them in the same?
24:39I don't know position, but scenery as you went through.
24:42Yeah, I mean, it's not that I came like from a struggling background.
24:46It was just an early and not a very.
24:50So it's quite normal, you know, normal upbringing in a way.
24:54But but I think you can train yourself.
24:58I mean, I had this early kind of thought about this, how I looked on life
25:02and what I wanted to do and the challenges and whatever.
25:05And I think you can basically train yourself to do it if you really want to.
25:10It's all about wanting. Right.
25:12So the question is, how do you first want?
25:15How do you get to that feeling of wanting to do something?
25:19And maybe that's the most difficult part.
25:22I think. It makes sense that to have that want to create the want
25:27is something most people, they struggle with for you, Kim.
25:30Yeah, but there's so many things you can do in life.
25:32So true. And am I only interested in sports cars?
25:36But many times it feels like that.
25:38But in reality, I have a lot of interest
25:40and there's a lot of things I would maybe like to have done as well.
25:43There's so many opportunities out in the world.
25:45But if you want to achieve something, you basically just have to decide
25:49to be a certain version of yourself that focuses on that
25:54and and motivate yourself that that's it.
25:57Whatever is interesting out there.
25:59Otherwise, maybe later, maybe never, whatever.
26:02This is it for unknown period of time and maybe forever.
26:07And that's OK. It's OK.
26:08And and that is that is I mean, I didn't have difficulty with that,
26:13but I think a lot of people might have because you can be
26:17so many different versions of yourself and then to decide I am only this
26:22because I'm going to be really good at it.
26:24Is difficult, probably some days, and I'm not saying it was never anything
26:28I thought about, but I had decided it's so early in my life that I always kind of.
26:32Yeah, that's interesting, but not now and maybe never.
26:35This is who I am. This is what I do.
26:37Wow. Big time.
26:39I know there's one there's one guy we like to quote sometimes,
26:44which is David Goggins.
26:45I don't know if you're aware of the guy.
26:47And he speaks about he speaks about drive.
26:49What you're what you're explaining here, I think, is drive.
26:52Because motivation, it comes and goes. Right.
26:55It's always like there's one day you're not motivated to go out.
26:57I don't know, for a run to go to work or whatever, but you had to drive.
27:02And that drive is what's going to keep you going, kept you going
27:06to the point where we are now sitting in this incredible place
27:10in Lake Como, looking at what you created,
27:13looking back at a story that started at six years old.
27:15Yeah, I found it really cool.
27:17I saw an interview with Elon Musk where he said,
27:20where does your motivation come from?
27:22And I thought it was an interesting answer.
27:23He said, I don't need motivation.
27:25I don't need inspiration. We're just going to do it.
27:28It's kind of it resonated.
27:30I kind of understood what he meant.
27:31It's like screw everything, you know, I've decided it doesn't matter
27:35if I'm happy or sad or I'm just going to do it regardless.
27:37You know, it's kind of similar attitude, I think.
27:40That reminds me of a question I overheard downstairs
27:42when someone asked you the question, would you make your car more?
27:47Would you sacrifice performance to make it sound better?
27:50And you gave an amazing answer to it.
27:51And I remember your answer was, I don't think we have to do that.
27:56It does both. Right.
27:57I mean, exactly.
27:59It was kind of a question.
28:00Do you kind of focus on making it do this or that sound wise?
28:04I mean, we try to make everything as good as we can,
28:06and then something comes out of that as a combination.
28:09And of course, after that, you can say, OK, and then we tune the sound
28:13on top of that or something.
28:14But we've never done that.
28:16It's like this is what this combination of everything
28:19we wanted to do wants to sound like.
28:22And there is a reason for everything on the car
28:26that is that way for a reason.
28:29And of course, if it sounded bad,
28:31well, that wouldn't be great.
28:34But they sound good in their own way and they're very distinctive
28:38and you can recognize the sound.
28:39And that's what they want to be with all the inputs we've had.
28:43And then we leave them like that.
28:44I like that. I like the lobster fight today.
28:47I really like the we've gotten now to experience what is, in fact,
28:51that has hardened your shell, that has made you this
28:55winning lobster in life, having gone through these challenges,
28:58facing them head on, keep going at it and not letting certain things.
29:04In your way, throw you, of course.
29:06Right. I think it's
29:09that there is a lot of a lot of challenges out there
29:11and a lot of things that can throw you off, of course,
29:13or try to throw you, of course, even.
29:16And I'm I don't see myself as a very.
29:21I mean, I'm a determined person, but I'm also somehow kind of a.
29:26Soft soul in a way, you know, I'm not very, very hard.
29:30I mean, I'm hard in my fight, but I'm kind of gentle as well in a way.
29:35So but if someone messes with my dream, I'm extremely hard.
29:41Yeah. Something like that.
29:43Don't let anyone beat it down.
29:44It's a great analogy of a lobster there, right there.
29:46Yeah. Soft on the inside.
29:48I'm more maybe hard on the inside, soft on the outside.
29:53That's fair enough.
29:54We didn't say anything.
29:55Yeah, absolutely.
29:56I'm I'm really, really happy.
29:58Honestly, it's been a great pleasure to.
30:00Thank you very much, Christian.
30:02Yeah. Nice talking to you both and hope to see you next year.
30:04Yeah, well, absolutely.
30:05Or maybe in Monaco someday.
30:06Yeah.
30:07I know there's Grand Prix next week, but I don't know if you'll be around.
30:10I'm going to the Barcelona Grand Prix. Fair enough.
30:12Fair enough. Might be a bit more interesting to watch.
30:15In fact, I've been once to the Monaco Grand Prix.
30:18It was amazing.
30:18And I've been thinking of going back, but always been a bit busy.
30:22Yeah, yeah, yeah.
30:23Being an entrepreneur, that's the challenge.
30:25There's so many exciting things out there to do, but you have to focus.
30:28Sacrifices. Yeah.
30:29Cool. Awesome.
30:31Thanks so much. Thank you.
30:32Big pleasure.