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Panorama 2020 E08
Transcript
00:00Tonight on Panorama, we go inside a criminal call centre.
00:07That would be 899. Bloody hell.
00:11Footage from their own cameras shows exactly how the fraudsters work.
00:16Your computer is infected with some pornographic virus.
00:21We find the British victims that these scammers are ripping off.
00:27I'm sorry about that, but I really could.
00:31We identify the crime boss who's making millions.
00:36I've seen evidence that you have been scamming people.
00:40And we ask, why can't the fraudsters be held to account?
00:45I feel angry. Angry and upset.
00:48Angry that someone could do that.
00:52And upset with myself that I fell for it.
00:55MUSIC
01:13Computer fraud's now the most common crime in the UK.
01:17But very few fraudsters are ever caught or convicted.
01:22So online, vigilantes are fighting back.
01:27They call themselves Scambaiters.
01:31What's your website? Microsoft.com.
01:34Oh, you don't work for Microsoft. Come on now, sweetie.
01:37You scam people. No!
01:40They pretend to fall for a scam and then turn the tables on the fraudsters.
01:46Their videos are watched by millions.
01:49My computer's making, like, a beeping sound. Can you hear that sound?
01:58These Scambaiters aren't breaking the law,
02:01so they can show their faces on camera.
02:04I'm available, yes. For the next couple of hours, actually.
02:10But some online vigilantes go further.
02:16I'll be very honest with you. Right, I'll prove to you that you're lying.
02:19Is your real name Mr Cart, like Orson Cart?
02:23That's not your real name, is it? Correct.
02:26Nor is Ricky your correct name.
02:29I'm meeting a Scambaiter who uses hacking and other illegal methods
02:34to get to the truth.
02:37He calls himself Jim Browning.
02:42My real name isn't my YouTube name,
02:45so I try to keep myself safe that way.
02:48But I'm disrupting criminal organisations,
02:51and some of those organisations can literally make
02:54millions of US dollars per month.
02:57And there's also a risk because some of the techniques that you're using
03:01could be considered illegal.
03:03I do not attempt to gain access to someone's computer
03:07unless they're trying to scam me,
03:09and I wait for them to try and scam me first.
03:17In the UK, we get 21 million scam calls a month.
03:22That's eight every second.
03:24Many come from India.
03:29Jim's tracked down dozens of call centres that are dedicated to fraud.
03:36Each of these dots is one he's already targeted.
03:41So, all of these companies on the map have tried to scam you?
03:45Yes.
03:46And they've all been scammed.
03:48They've all been scammed.
03:50All of these companies on the map have tried to scam you?
03:53Yes.
03:57What I do is deliberately set up my own home computer
04:01to allow these scammers access.
04:04And once I do that, it's set up in a way deliberately
04:08that I can trace their connection back.
04:11So, if you like, I can connect back to their PC.
04:15Jim's given us some footage that hasn't been published before.
04:19It's his most successful hack yet.
04:25So, you got right inside the company through these cameras?
04:28Yes.
04:33This is a scam call centre in the Indian capital, Delhi.
04:37And Jim has taken control of their CCTV cameras.
04:45He can see exactly what they're doing.
04:50Important security message.
04:52Your computer has been locked up.
04:56The scammers freeze your computer with a message
04:59telling you to call Microsoft for urgent technical support.
05:05You can get rid of it by simply switching off your computer.
05:10This is Windows security server, Microsoft Windows.
05:14Right. Yeah, it's got Microsoft. So, you're Microsoft, yeah?
05:17Yes, sir.
05:20But instead, Jim calls the scammers
05:23and watches as they try to rip him off.
05:31There's, like, a beeping noise and it said,
05:35There's, like, a beeping noise and it said,
05:42So, what does this mean?
05:54Right, I see.
05:55So, how do I get rid of this?
06:05So, hold on.
06:06Why would you charge me when there's nothing wrong?
06:08That's quite normal.
06:13Technical things.
06:14Go on, try me. I'm quite technical.
06:17Are you running a scam here?
06:19Because that's what it looks like to me.
06:25And we are trying to fix it.
06:30This is another call Jim made.
06:33The scammer claims he's calling from San Jose in California.
06:38If you really lived there,
06:40you would name one restaurant anywhere at all in San Jose?
06:47Are you in San Jose or not?
06:51OK, can you name me one restaurant in San Jose
06:54without looking at Google?
06:59Well, I bet you're looking at Google right now.
07:02I'm not doing that, sir.
07:08As well as the footage,
07:10Jim got hold of the recordings of 70,000 scam calls.
07:15So, I was just on the internet when I got a pop-up.
07:20They're ripping off people in Australia,
07:23America
07:24and the UK.
07:27I've got a message up saying that my computer is infected.
07:31There's a pornographic spy there.
07:34It says your computer is permanently blocked.
07:39Just tell me what I have to do.
07:44We tracked down some of the British victims.
07:50Out of these two options,
07:51you can select any of the options according to your preference.
07:54I'm worth £500. I ain't got any £100, Jim.
07:58Oh, I could strangle the geezer.
08:00I'm sorry about that, but I really could.
08:03You know, cos I think, you know,
08:06I think I'm a pretty strong person normally,
08:08but he convinced me he was such a nice person, helping me.
08:22I feel angry.
08:24Angry and upset.
08:26Angry that someone could do that,
08:30knowing that there's nothing wrong with the computer
08:33just to extort money from you.
08:37And upset with myself that I fell for it.
08:43This is the first time the victims have heard the recordings.
08:50There's a page on there telling me it's locked up
08:54and there's a lady shouting at me,
08:56telling me not to switch off and it's all locked up.
09:00I'm not very computer savvy.
09:03I'm 83 years old and I'm not very technically minded.
09:09The moment I came to the phone, I knew I'd been scammed.
09:13That would be £8.99.
09:15Bloody hell. Where do I find that sort of money?
09:20I knew all along.
09:22What I was doing.
09:24And I knew I shouldn't be doing it,
09:26but it just seems I've been taken over.
09:40It really scared me, you know,
09:42saying they've used your name and everything else.
09:45And so it really worries you, you know, how did they get everything
09:49and now they're using it for themselves?
09:51So it just kept drawing me in and drawing me in.
09:54And I was believing everything he was saying.
10:00The scammers try to scare their victims into handing over cash.
10:20Have you opened any kind of a photograph of your face on the computer, ma'am?
10:24No, no.
10:26All I've been looking for is pet insurance.
10:32Yeah, and that's what I was looking for at the time,
10:35to renew my pet insurance.
10:37So that was a bit of a shock.
10:43To say I had that on my computer.
10:46That was more fear.
10:48It kept frightening, you know,
10:50these nine people have been trying to use child porn,
10:53which, you know, scared the life out of me.
10:56And that just kept frightening me again.
10:59So I actually believed that I had to buy a firewall,
11:03some sort of a firewall,
11:05just to save my computer and save my name, really.
11:11Our victims are far from alone.
11:16Police in the UK get around 50,000 reports every year
11:20about Indian scams.
11:25The Indian police have worked with us recently
11:27and it's been very, very successful.
11:29We welcome that cooperation.
11:31We want to extend that cooperation.
11:36Indian police say they're trying to crack down on scam call centres.
11:41This raid in Delhi was carried out in November
11:45and with the help of British police,
11:4727 other call centres were raided just before Christmas.
11:54Those searches were carried out by the Indian police
11:56and there were 68 arrests.
11:58Out of all of that information,
12:00what we know is that one call centre
12:02perpetrated crimes against 6,000 victims.
12:05So that indicates the scale of the problem.
12:08But when you take one call centre out,
12:10that protects the equivalent of 6,000 victims in the future.
12:20But the hacker who gathered our evidence
12:22says there are hundreds of scam call centres still operating.
12:29I've tried to report as many of the scam call centres
12:32as I possibly can.
12:33I've filled out online forms,
12:35I've sent emails and, in fact,
12:37some of the call centres, I believe,
12:39even though I've put videos about them
12:41and they may have temporarily shut down,
12:43all that happens is that they will reopen again
12:46a short time later, maybe in a different building,
12:48and they'll continue the scamming.
12:50There's nothing on the ground
12:52which really stops them from doing this.
13:00There's a simple reason the scams are still going on.
13:03There's a simple reason the scammers are hard to stop.
13:08In India, telephone call centres are big business.
13:14It's a booming industry.
13:16Call centres employ hundreds of thousands of people here
13:19who help customers around the world
13:21with everything from our mobile phones to our banking.
13:26This is Gurugram in the suburbs of Delhi.
13:29There are hundreds of legitimate call centres here.
13:34But working in amongst the legal businesses are the scammers.
13:39There are people who used to work at legit call centres
13:42and now run call centre scams.
13:46In a similar way, there are people who would otherwise have worked
13:50for a legit call centre,
13:52but since the jobs don't exist, they work for the call centre scam.
13:55So it's a weird overlap.
13:58These are not two separate industries.
14:07Journalist Snigdha Poonam has been investigating scams for years.
14:12She says that for the criminals behind them,
14:16there's not much risk.
14:18A lot of scammers, a lot of scam call centre owners, operators,
14:22don't worry about getting caught
14:24because they know that they will either not be caught.
14:27Even if they are, they'll get out easily,
14:29they can change the names of their centres,
14:31they can, you know, just change a location
14:34and then sprout up somewhere else.
14:45I've been put in contact with a man who used to run a scam call centre.
14:52He says he started it when he was just 18
14:55and ended up employing 100 people.
14:57He says he doesn't want to be identified.
15:03When I was working as an owner, you know,
15:06like there are many employees with me,
15:08we were making a good amount of money
15:11and a day we used to make around sometimes $30,000 a day,
15:16sometimes $20,000, $25,000 a day.
15:20What did you buy with your newfound wealth?
15:22Yeah, I bought BMW as well, right, which was X1.
15:26I bought many other stuff like gold.
15:29I got new clothes and many more things.
15:35I used to go in the five star, which I've never been to.
15:38I did every single thing, like whatever, you know,
15:41like a superstar can do, right, we can buy that, right?
15:46If you could go back to your 18-year-old self, would you do it again?
15:51Not at all.
15:53I would say, like, it's already I have left this thing,
15:56so I'm not going to do this again, and I'm for sure about it.
16:01Without international co-operation,
16:03scam call centres can be hard to stop.
16:08The police here need a complaint from a victim
16:10before they can prosecute,
16:12and not many victims find their way to Delhi.
16:17I've gone up to police stations in areas
16:19where I've clearly found such centres
16:23and I've told them, I've given them proof,
16:25but they will tell you it's a scam.
16:27I've gone up to police stations in areas
16:29where I've clearly found such centres
16:31and I've told them, I've given them proof,
16:33but they will tell you that, you know, there's nothing that I can do
16:36unless the people who are victims in whatever countries come here
16:40and agree to be taken through the entire, you know, judicial process,
16:46which usually doesn't happen.
16:51A local police commander has agreed to talk to me.
16:58But says there are another 15 suspicious call centres
17:02operating in his district alone.
17:16How easy is it for someone, perhaps in the UK,
17:18who's been scammed, to make a complaint
17:21and then that complaint get to you
17:23so that you could actually act on it?
17:28I would say it's very, very difficult
17:30or you can say it's impossible also
17:32because to contact the UK will complain,
17:35the UK person who has got cheated.
17:37He doesn't know from where he's cheated
17:39so he will not even be able to complain in India.
17:48So what about the scam call centre in Jim Browning's hacked footage?
17:53We tracked it to an office complex called Sonnet Tower.
17:57Here it is. There we are.
17:59That's the one I recognise from Jim's footage.
18:06Somewhere in these offices,
18:08a team of scammers has been ripping off people in the UK.
18:24Ah, blood pressure.
18:26I'm so uncomfortable with them, that's why I'm just...
18:301295, OK?
18:41Hey, why are you crying, man?
18:43You're a very good man. Why are you crying?
18:46I've had a bad depression.
18:52We've identified the man behind the fraud,
18:55Amit Chauhan,
18:57a seemingly respectable businessman.
19:03I've just spotted this in the corner, his mission statement in life.
19:07It says that he's an entrepreneur
19:09who's trying to print his name in the world's top business magazine.
19:13So, judging by that, this is a man who fancies himself
19:16on the cover of Forbes magazine.
19:18This is a man who wants the world to take him seriously.
19:21So, on the face of it, he's just like another businessman
19:25who's got money and is not afraid to show people that he has.
19:33But Amit Chauhan's not an ordinary businessman.
19:38The hacked footage includes recordings from the CCTV
19:42in his office.
19:52It's hard to decipher, but this is Amit Chauhan
19:55discussing a new fraud with his business partners.
19:58The aim is to get control of the victim's online bank account.
20:29The hacked documents also show that Amit Chauhan is behind the crime.
20:36I've been looking at some data that Jim Browning has given us
20:39and it's absolutely fascinating,
20:41because it takes us right into the heart
20:44of the financial mechanics of a scam call centre.
20:51This WhatsApp message records Amit Chauhan
20:55This WhatsApp message records the takings on a single night shift.
21:00Over $14,000.
21:05And this spreadsheet shows the scam was bringing in
21:08around $400,000 a month.
21:17I'm able to actually see the PayPal account of Amit Chauhan
21:21and we know that it's Amit Chauhan's PayPal account
21:23because actually I'm just looking here and I can see his name,
21:26his phone number, his address.
21:30Thousands of pounds a day is going into the pockets of Amit Chauhan.
21:35Tens of thousands of pounds a week
21:38and hundreds of thousands of pounds a month.
21:43One of the PayPal payments was made by Perry Adams.
21:52That niggling day out of the back of my head all the time,
21:57which was growing,
21:59which is why I questioned him several times,
22:02are you definitely from Microsoft?
22:21At the same time to secure your network and identity
22:24so that your other devices will be also safe.
22:29As soon as he hung up, Perry realised he'd been conned.
22:34They sent me an invoice via email,
22:36but I think before that even arrived I'd been in touch with PayPal
22:40and told them I believe I'd been scammed
22:43and explained to them what happened.
22:45And they said that it was not a problem,
22:48they would refund me the money
22:50and they would take up the issue on my behalf and investigate it.
22:58We wanted to know if PayPal had closed Mr Chauhan down,
23:02so we sent a small payment to his account.
23:07Nine months after PayPal was warned about his scam,
23:11it was still helping the fraudster to cash in.
23:15PayPal told us it couldn't comment on this case,
23:19but remains committed to protecting customers who use its services.
23:28The police say they need the financial sector's help
23:31to stop the scammers.
23:35Global money networks are essential for criminals to clean their money
23:39and we need to really understand those better
23:42so it's critically important we understand that,
23:45it's critically important that we work with the banking system to intervene
23:49and it's critically important that we freeze that money
23:52and we return that money where we can to victims.
24:01I want to meet Mr Chauhan, but he's away on a luxury holiday in Thailand.
24:07So I can only reach him on the phone.
24:12Hello.
24:13Hello, is that Amit?
24:15Yes.
24:16Hi, Amit Chauhan?
24:18Yes.
24:19I want to get your comment, please,
24:21on allegations that you're scamming people in the UK
24:25out of thousands of pounds.
24:27What would you like to say to that, Mr Chauhan?
24:30No, I don't think there was any case like that.
24:34Mr Chauhan, would I be able to meet you in Delhi?
24:37Because I've seen evidence that you have been scamming people.
24:40We've been talking to people
24:42and we've seen evidence from your bank accounts.
24:44I'd really love to sit down and talk to you.
24:46Would that be possible?
24:52So, just to be clear,
24:54you're not a scammer?
24:56No, I'm not a scammer.
24:58I'm not a scammer.
25:00So, just to be clear,
25:02we have seen allegations,
25:04we've seen evidence in bank accounts as well.
25:08Absolutely not, because people have told us at the BBC here
25:12that you have been scamming them through a call centre
25:15based in Gurugram,
25:16based out of a building called Sonnet Tower.
25:18Do you know Sonnet Tower is at your company headquarters,
25:21Mr Chauhan?
25:26Mr Chauhan, do you know Sonnet Tower?
25:28Do you work from that building?
25:31Mr Chauhan?
25:34Well, he's gone,
25:35but we did get to talk to him for a few minutes.
25:39He keeps saying, or kept saying,
25:41there's no such cases.
25:43He didn't really deny anything,
25:45but he just kept deflecting and said
25:47he will get back in touch through his lawyer,
25:50so we'll just have to wait and see.
25:52But at least he picked up the phone,
25:54at least we've managed to put the allegations
25:57from all the people that we have got to know about through Jim,
26:01at least we got to talk to him,
26:03and now let's see if I actually get to meet him.
26:11But Amit Chauhan didn't get back to us,
26:14and his call centre has been ripping off people around the world.
26:19We will just work on the computer now, OK?
26:21We will just remove all these infections
26:23and sort out everything, OK?
26:26And you are in London right now?
26:28Yeah, yeah.
26:29But we are not so far. I'm in Plymouth.
26:51I'm not the only person who'd like to meet the man behind me.
26:54I'd like to meet the man behind the fraud.
27:00Is he the hit honcho?
27:02Right.
27:05Yes.
27:06I'd like a half-hour alone with him.
27:08He might be younger than me, but...
27:15You really have gone to town on this, haven't you?
27:20You really know all about it.
27:25Telephone scams are an easy crime to set up
27:29and a hard crime to convict.
27:33So the scammers are unlikely to stop.
27:38I had a suspicion, yes, but I was taken in by...
27:43..by them.
27:44They're very well rehearsed of how to get your trust.
27:49The best way to defeat the fraudsters
27:51is to know how they work.
27:53We will first of all connect your computer
27:56with our secured server so that you are safe.
28:00So you don't get taken in by that nice-sounding caller
28:03on the other end of the phone.
28:06He kept making me think, like, you know,
28:08he's a good friend of mine, you know.
28:10I didn't realise it at the time.
28:12But he just made it so obvious to me
28:15at the time.
28:17But he just made it so easy.
28:22And while the authorities may struggle to stop the criminals,
28:26the scam-baiters will make sure they don't get things
28:29all their own way.
28:46And the party is well and truly over.
28:48The split continues in just a moment.
28:51And over on 2, Murder 24x7 starting now.