Big Story | Diversity In Temporary Hires For Festive Season | NDTV Profit
Diversity in hiring can be seen in temporary hires for the festive season.
Could this drive change in mindsets?
Corporate Strategist Rituparna Chakraborty, TeamLease Edtech's Shantanu Rooj and APAC Randstad's Ankita Banerjee discuss in 'Big Story'.
Could this drive change in mindsets?
Corporate Strategist Rituparna Chakraborty, TeamLease Edtech's Shantanu Rooj and APAC Randstad's Ankita Banerjee discuss in 'Big Story'.
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TVTranscript
00:00For roles that were traditionally considered to be male dominating, is there something
00:04that could drive change in mindsets and make this a priority for India, Inc.?
00:09We discuss this and more on The Big Story this evening.
00:30There is a rise in trend of diversity hiring in the Indian workspace.
00:39Most formal sectors in our country including both government and corporate are pushing
00:44for diversity hiring.
00:46This is also the case with temporary recruitment during high demand periods like the festive
00:50season which fosters revenue for multiple businesses.
00:54In fact, as per the latest Founded Insights Tracker report for June 2024, diversity hiring
01:01has increased by 33% on a year-on-year basis.
01:05This indicates the growing focus of companies on diversity and inclusion policies.
01:11E-commerce, logistics, retail, hospitality, manufacturing, consumer durables, and BFSI
01:19are some of the sectors showcasing this trend.
01:22The sectors leading the diversity hiring swing are BFSI and IT software and services.
01:28Companies are also focusing on hiring more women and offering skill development programs
01:33to improve their employability.
01:35This according to recruitments firm is because women project both lower attrition rate and
01:41absenteeism.
01:43Some of the high demand roles for women are sales associate, customer service representative,
01:48in-store promoter, personal finance, and retail insurance sales among many others.
01:55According to Rituparnath Chakraborty, a corporate strategist and independent director, India
02:01Inc.'s extension of gender diversity initiatives into temporary hiring during the festive season
02:07is a promising step forward.
02:09However, true progress will be achieved when diversity moves beyond seasonal trends and
02:16becomes a year-round priority.
02:47coming in seems to suggest that the diversity push that we are seeing in Indian corporates
03:04may now be extending to temporary hirings.
03:07What is your sense on this and on the larger picture?
03:13First and foremost, it's a welcome trend, I mean, whichever way it comes, whether it
03:17comes to the hiring of more temporary workers who are diverse in nature or otherwise.
03:23So I mean, every attempt in the direction of making the workplace more diverse is obviously
03:29welcome.
03:30But yes, I think side by side, like I said, to go to Mallika that I think the issue right
03:38now is that can we sustain it and make it a much more long-term impact rather than just
03:42focused on this being a scenario when there is high demand, you know, obviously, there
03:48is a season which is coming, I mean, the highest domestic consumption season is around the
03:52corner, the festival season is about to start.
03:55So there are extra pairs of hands and legs that are required.
03:58And there is shortage of skills and shortage of talent.
04:02And of course, employers will have to now take serious cognizance of the fact that women
04:08are probably an important part of their hiring strategy.
04:11But having said that, I think I do believe that India is still far, far behind in terms
04:16of where we ought to be in terms of making workplace diverse.
04:19And hence, this cannot be episodic, this cannot be a seasonal trend, and this cannot be only
04:24at the entry level.
04:25I mean, we all know, as a matter of fact, my belief is over the last two decades, India
04:30has done particularly well in terms of being very inclusive for entry-level providers for
04:35women.
04:36But essentially, the challenge or the actual reality or the shocker is what happens to
04:42women after they've spent about four or five years at the workplaces.
04:45I guess that's where the change is required.
04:48But I welcome this move and the fact that a lot more sectors and industries are now
04:53opening doors to having more women itself is fascinating.
04:57I was so happy that in the last one week, two of the e-commerce delivery agents at my
05:04doorstep happened to be a woman.
05:06And I hope that what is happening in Bangalore translates all across the country and across
05:12profiles.
05:13So this change is very much needed.
05:15It's late, but I'm glad that it's here.
05:17Oh, yes, absolutely.
05:19Shantanu, now, there has been a lot of corporate focus on diversity and inclusion.
05:24In fact, India has seen about a 33 percent surge in diversity hiring.
05:29This is according to a June report of Founded Insights Tracker.
05:32Now, do you see temp hiring as an extension of the overall picture?
05:37And are you hopeful that the narratives may now finally be changing?
05:43So, Nupur, thanks so much.
05:45However, if you look at the reasons why this is happening, right, so Ritu talked about
05:49it.
05:51I mean, apart from policy decisions, but there are a lot of corporates who are looking at
05:55inherent, innate advantages of having a lot of women in the workforce.
06:00They're talking about lower attrition level because women are supposed to be less fickle
06:03by nature.
06:04There are certain job roles where the efficiency is much higher.
06:07For example, the entire electronics industry prefers women workforce in the assembly lines.
06:11And they also talked about absenteeism, which is much better in a women workforce in this
06:16case.
06:17And what works for the short term obviously works for the long term as well.
06:20Because the problems that you're solving by this diversity is actually not just a short
06:25term problem.
06:26It's actually the biggest problem that CEOs in some of these industries face.
06:30So I'm very hopeful that this particular initiative, which is starting off possibly today, and
06:35it's being talked about because there's a lot of surge in hiring because the festive
06:39season is going to have a long shadow in the long term.
06:43Right.
06:44So we are hoping that this is going to be something that will be adopted in the long
06:48term as well.
06:49Let me also bring in Ankita now.
06:51Ankita, what do you make of this trend?
06:54And do you see any particular changes that are driving it?
07:02Excellent point, Nupur.
07:04I think what is happening right now is I think companies are increasingly realizing and recognizing
07:09that by having a more diverse workforce, we are able to be more innovative, productive
07:16and, of course, future focused.
07:18And to become an attractive employer, it also means that I should be able to attract potential
07:24talents, future candidates.
07:26And that means that I should also be able to reflect the society that I operate in and
07:30the values of equity and inclusion that the newer generations truly believe in.
07:37And through these inclusive policies and programs and what I'll call reasonable accommodations,
07:42we should be able to attract talent in a talent scarce market.
07:46And the narrative that I see changing is across the board.
07:49We definitely need to have more women role models.
07:52So what Ritu spoke about, like moving from entry level to more leadership roles, not
07:58just for women, but for other minoritized groups as well.
08:02But also collectively, I think as individuals and as organizations, we need to recognize
08:07the kind of heteronormative, gender normative, ableist biases and prejudices that we have.
08:12So I think that's a collective effort that needs to take place.
08:15And it will only be supplemented by policy and structure level changes where we have
08:20more flexible, gender inclusive, as well as welcoming policies like inclusive and accessible
08:31restrooms, lactation rooms, more generous parental leaves for traditional as well as
08:37for non-traditional families.
08:39So, yes, I think I'm very proud of the movement that we've seen in the recent past
08:44and that's ongoing, but it's an evolution.
08:46We can't rest on our laurels immediately.
08:49There's a lot of work that still needs to happen.
08:52Right.
08:53Shantanu, do you see that multinationals, which essentially do have a very well-defined
08:58diversity and inclusion practices, are perhaps at the forefront of this trend?
09:06Or do you feel that, you know, India Inc. is catching up very, very quickly?
09:11So, yeah, multinationals come in at the forefront because they have a policy pushing them to
09:16ensure that there is a lot of inclusion and diversification in the work space.
09:21But interesting space in this case, Nupur, is that the entire India INC is actually waking
09:26up to this.
09:27And they are waking up just not because they love getting a lot of women in the workforce,
09:30but because the real shared merit of getting women workforce on this inside.
09:34Interestingly, if you look at some of the statistics which are available there, Nupur,
09:38you'll see that this change is happening both in the white-collar jobs as well in the blue-collar jobs.
09:43Organizations in the logistics segments, and job roles like loaders, packers, inventory
09:48managers, even people are seeing women there.
09:51And you talked about the delivery girl who came in.
09:53So, I think we are seeing the change all across the spectrum.
09:57Possibly it's showing up in the fringes at the lower end of the spectrum, but then soon
10:01we'll start seeing this going up to the higher echelons of the corporate world.
10:05Absolutely.
10:06Breaking the glass ceiling isn't that easy.
10:09But coming to you, Rituparna, you know, what's very interesting in this trend that we are
10:14seeing is that traditionally there was a mindset of not employing women during the festive
10:20season because they were seen to, you know, they were known to be the center of the family
10:25and there were a lot of traditions around the festive season.
10:29But that is breaking and that's very interesting, isn't it?
10:33Yeah, I think essentially when, I mean, obviously India Inc. is realizing that if you do not
10:39cast the net wide and you do not have access to the right kind of skill sets, which are
10:46available and women do possess the skill sets, the attitude, the mentality, the ability to
10:51perform some of these, they are only other, will be other losing it.
10:55And I think that realization has also led to organizations focusing on more in terms
11:01of what they can do to make women more welcome at workplaces.
11:05Family pressure and challenges exist, but is there a way by which you can provide more
11:10flexibility, access to job places which are closer to where they stay?
11:16I think corporating probably is going the extra mile to kind of accommodate some of
11:21their challenges.
11:22If there are specific days that women probably would want to spend more time, I have a feeling
11:28and I also see that happening, that there is a change in approach in organization's
11:34recruitment policy, that let's go that extra mile and do some of these changes.
11:39But you know what?
11:40Again, I'm going to sound like a broken record when I say this.
11:45First and foremost, temporary staffing or stuffing has always been the flag bearer of
11:51being more inclusive for job market outsiders.
11:53In this case, women who are not at the workplaces, I do consider them as job market
11:58outsiders.
11:59From that perspective, temporary staffing has been doing a fantastic job in changing
12:03the entire nation's ecosystem by getting them in.
12:07But I think somewhere down the line, I do feel that the pressure that organizations
12:12feel during this, probably the next four months, six months, and which actually leads
12:20them to make some of these accommodations, I'm not too sure they're doing it all
12:25around the year and that ought to change.
12:28And just because you need more hands and legs during a particular season, you're
12:32of course going to go the extra mile.
12:34But are you actually listening, paying attention to what essentially is required
12:38to make them welcome at workplaces, at different roles, at more senior roles?
12:44It's something that probably is a topic for another discussion.
12:47But I welcome the move, but I'm not going to sit back saying we've done enough.
12:53That's a very good point.
12:54And I want to bring in Ankita on this one.
12:58Even as employers are looking to hire more women in the festival season, what is it
13:03that they're offering them?
13:04Are they offering them more flexibility?
13:06Because at the end of the day, they are still the center of the Indian household.
13:09So they will need that flexibility around them.
13:12So flexibility perhaps in terms of working hours, more transport facilities,
13:17because if you're looking to get more women into the workforce in tier 2 and
13:21tier 3 cities, that is something that should be the core of your policy.
13:25So do you see that happening at all?
13:28Absolutely.
13:29I think more and more organizations are able to offer what is called
13:32flexibility with intentionality.
13:34Because let's face it, women continue to, especially in India, have
13:39disproportionate responsibility of caregiving and domestic responsibilities again.
13:44So yes, companies are offering that more flexible hours, definitely transport.
13:49Also, I see there's an increase in terms of benefits like better security,
13:54better access to changing rooms, lactation rooms.
13:59These are some of the conversations that are happening.
14:02But I think there needs to be a larger focus.
14:05It should not be a moment of focus or highlight where we are only doing this
14:12around certain times where we have more women employees.
14:15But to make this a more well-furnished, a more sustainable movement,
14:21I think we need to make policy-level changes, structure-level changes
14:25that will lead us to better retention of this talent,
14:28as well as being able to welcome more and more diverse populations
14:33and communities within our workforce.
14:35Yes, absolutely.
14:36Shantanu, are there any particular roles where women actually pip men?
14:41For instance, the Foxconn factory in Tamil Nadu,
14:44which has about 70% women as compared to 30% men.
14:48This, of course, is according to the company's press release
14:51that was issued around a controversy.
14:53But are there more such roles that would be more suited to women?
14:57Foxconn is just a company example.
14:59The entire electronics assembly line industry is talking about
15:03women being much more productive because of the dexterity on their fingers.
15:07So that's one.
15:08But then there are several industries who actually vouch for women
15:11in their workforce.
15:12Look at the entire e-commerce.
15:14The roles like customer service, sales associate, telesales,
15:18all of these roles are actually women have been outperforming men
15:23in many of these things.
15:24And now women coming into the blue-collar job as well,
15:28I think men have got serious competition there.
15:30Interestingly, just to add to what Ankita said,
15:32apart from all of those functionalities,
15:34all of those advantages and all of those facilities
15:36that employers are willing to give to women this time,
15:38I think they are also willing to give them much better wages
15:42that they gave them earlier.
15:44The difference between the wages to male as well as female,
15:47I think there was a gap.
15:48That gap is now reducing.
15:50And there's a clear recognition that what works for India INC
15:53during crisis times obviously works for them
15:56even when the crisis has passed off.
15:58So this is going to long-term stay.
16:01So Shantanu, what you are saying is that we may not be seeing
16:04equal pay for equal work yet.
16:07That is perhaps still work in progress.
16:09But what we are seeing is that gap narrowing.
16:13Now, on the other side, what are the sectors
16:16that don't really hire women, which still seem to traditionally
16:20and continue to prefer a more male-dominated workforce?
16:24What are the changes that can be made in those?
16:27So there are some industries.
16:28For example, let's say telecom, for example.
16:30There is this industry which has got a lot of fieldwork.
16:33Industries where there is a lot of physical strength
16:36which is required.
16:38And there have been industries which are traditionally
16:40have been male-dominated.
16:41Some of these industries have been actually slow takers.
16:44I mean, most of them are agreeing that getting in women
16:47actually doesn't harm them.
16:48It actually benefits that women bring in
16:51in terms of lower attrition, better productivity
16:54and their ability to be more empathetic
16:58in this entire leadership style.
16:59I think it's becoming very important for them.
17:02But some industries have been more aggressive
17:04than some of the other ones.
17:06So that's what we have been noticing.
17:09Absolutely.
17:10Rituparna, any thoughts on that?
17:12Because there are still some male bastions
17:15which we are not able to break through.
17:18And we have often seen many examples
17:21as working women in our careers as well of this.
17:25Of course, Indian Army.
17:28I don't think in the right places
17:30we have enough women in leadership.
17:32Not just that.
17:33The premier technology institutes in India
17:35still do not have a woman chief, by the way,
17:38since inception.
17:41I mean, these are some numbers that I am recalling
17:44off the hat.
17:47I mean, Reserve Bank of India.
17:50I mean, CBI.
17:52I mean, I'm so sorry to kind of call this out,
17:55but I know there are women in some of these institutions,
17:58but we still do not have women leaders.
18:00It's not that they don't hire women,
18:02but that's very important
18:04because that's essentially how thinning starts.
18:06Of course, I agree with Shantanu.
18:08He called out some of the sectors.
18:10I do believe that while there are some multinationals
18:14in the manufacturing space who are trying
18:16to kind of usher in some changes
18:19by bringing women at workplaces,
18:21but by and large, the larger part
18:23of the Indian manufacturing ecosystem
18:25is still not ready to welcome doors to women.
18:31And I mean, there are honestly plenty of sectors
18:34which are still pretty much male-dominant factor.
18:41I know we see some changes happening
18:45to BFSI and IT and retail, for example,
18:48which has a lot of women,
18:50but I believe that there is a large number
18:53of industries and sectors
18:55which still have not become as inclusive
18:57as it ought to be
18:59and probably have still a diversity ratio
19:01which is less than 20%.
19:03And that's got to change.
19:05So I will say that there is now sectors
19:07where there is absolutely no women,
19:09but it's a worry that some of them
19:11have never had any women in leadership.
19:13And that itself is not the right role modeling
19:15to attract more women.
19:18Right. Coming to you, Ankita.
19:20Ankita, you know, sometimes a lot
19:22of these temp roles actually can create
19:24a pipeline of talent for full-time
19:26and permanent positions.
19:27Now, do you see that happening?
19:29Are you hopeful of that?
19:30And what is it that companies can actually do
19:33to make sure that these temp roles
19:35then get converted into more permanent positions?
19:38Absolutely. I think that's a growing trend.
19:40We see increasingly more organizations
19:42looking at that talent pool as well.
19:44I think one of the ways that we can
19:46intervene and make this more
19:48realistic is to offer
19:50upskilling opportunities
19:52even for our temp workers.
19:54Give them those opportunities
19:56to, again, raise their hands
19:58if they see certain roles come in
20:00which are perm roles with the organization
20:02and move. So looking at that
20:04cross-pollination of talent as well.
20:06And, of course, to continue to focus on
20:08while you bring in that talent
20:10through the temp route.
20:12But also look at how are you bolstering
20:14your internal workforce environment,
20:16your ecosystem and practices
20:18to be able to attract that talent
20:20and, of course, retain that talent as well.
20:22So I think a lot of organizations
20:24are doing that today.
20:26And it's a great move
20:28in the right direction.
20:30I think we need to also support talent
20:32in the right way possible as well.
20:35Chantanu, any thoughts on that?
20:37How do we convert these temporary positions
20:40into more permanent roles?
20:42And the second point that I wanted to get your view on
20:44was Ritu Parna mentioned at the beginning
20:46that you can get a lot of women
20:48to enter the workforce, but keeping them there
20:50has always been a challenge.
20:52What happens to them 4-5 years down the line?
20:54So how do companies work around that?
20:57Two things. At TeamLease,
20:59we have been observing that a lot of employers
21:01have been taking this temporary staffing very seriously.
21:03They have those concentric circles
21:05of their workforce
21:07and temporary workforce is being taken up
21:09very seriously now.
21:11They're willing to invest in upskilling them.
21:13There are several hundreds of employers today
21:15who are approaching us to tell us
21:17that they're willing to invest in,
21:19for example, degree connectivity solutions
21:21to this workforce
21:23who are coming in for the temporary purposes
21:25and to ensure that they build up
21:27a long-term career
21:29for these candidates.
21:31They're willing to invest so that the productivity
21:33goes up, attrition comes down,
21:35or possibly the hiring cost comes down there.
21:37That's one thing from that part.
21:39Yeah.
21:41All right. Rituparna,
21:43as I was saying,
21:45you were talking about the bit
21:47that getting these women to stay
21:49is a challenge
21:51and companies need to work on that continuously.
21:53We've seen that as well
21:55in the various organizations
21:57that we have seen that women join very enthusiastically
21:59but often get weighed down
22:01by the many cares in the world
22:03that they have to face.
22:06Honestly, on this part,
22:08while there is a lot
22:10corporates can do, a lot government can do,
22:12there's a lot women have to do
22:14in this area.
22:16While I'm somebody who's been advocating
22:18having more women in workforce,
22:20keeping them in workforce,
22:22I also am aware of the fact
22:24that somewhere we as women have to do more.
22:26We have to have higher aspirations
22:28for our own self
22:30and we have to stick it up.
22:32The reality that we live in India
22:34and the kind of infrastructure challenge
22:36with a little or no support
22:38in terms of managing children
22:40in terms of the ecosystem
22:42are our realities
22:44but we still have to confront all of that
22:46and tell ourselves that we do not have a plan B.
22:48I mean the issue,
22:50I know it's a very unpopular view
22:52that I'm probably articulating
22:54but I have to say it
22:56that the fact that we consider
22:58that we as women have an option
23:00or optionality of not working
23:02we have to tackle that first.
23:04So having said that,
23:06I think of course corporate India
23:08have to make peace with the reality
23:10that women will probably
23:12at the childbearing stage
23:14and when they are about
23:16to become a mother
23:18they would typically be off the grid
23:20for about six months.
23:22I know that there's a lot of controversy
23:24around the Maternity Benefit Act
23:26and it's justified
23:28but having said that,
23:30women usually typically spend
23:32six months away even if
23:34earlier we had just six months.
23:36So my point is that
23:38let's factor that in.
23:40The mathematics of why you still
23:42have to encourage women
23:44motivate women and get them work
23:46I think there's enough study done by BCG
23:48by McKinsey which says
23:50the mathematics of how
23:52it helps organizations.
23:54As a matter of fact there are studies done
23:56on listed companies globally
23:59which shows that the ones
24:01which are more diverse and have more women
24:03in the same industry
24:05are more profitable than the ones
24:07who are not. So the mathematics
24:09obviously is already in place
24:11we just have to accept it
24:13we have to play the long innings here
24:15and allow women
24:17the safety net
24:19to be able to remain
24:21in the workplace
24:23remain productive
24:25continue to invest
24:27in their up gradation
24:29of their skill set and also their morale
24:31I mean somewhere
24:33I think even before someone else
24:35decides whether we are capable
24:37or not I think in our own mind
24:39we tell ourselves we are not
24:41good enough and I think that obviously has to
24:43change but this is where
24:45I think the help from the organizations
24:47are required and from
24:49policy perspective
24:51I know we've come up with this policy
24:53where we have made women directors
24:55mandatory
24:57but still 90% of the listed companies
24:59have a woman director
25:01and you know the funniest part is that
25:03single digit
25:05of these women directors come from an
25:07executive director position
25:09or who had an executive position
25:11in their boards before they joined in
25:13so we have a lot of thinking
25:15to do that let's not just have
25:17policies which becomes a
25:19compliance tick and we need to
25:21make policies which
25:24actually enable the ecosystem
25:26from a women perspective
25:28to have more women
25:30and I think once we are
25:32all aligned on that front
25:34you will see change
25:36at the moment all I can say is that we just need
25:38more women climbing up the ladders
25:40when women go up the ladder
25:42and they are in decision making places
25:44whether in corporate India or
25:46in government you will see
25:48the changes that we are all
25:50expecting and perhaps as you are pointing out
25:52the trickle down effect will be sooner
25:54Ankita any last thoughts on this
25:56Absolutely
25:58Nuput there is one thing that I would like to
26:00share that we talk often in Run Start
26:02is inclusion
26:04is not a
26:06zero sum game just because you are including
26:08or welcoming
26:10diversity in the workplace
26:12does not mean you are excluding somebody
26:14else I think
26:16I am very glad to see this conversation
26:18happening about gender diversity
26:20to have more women in the workplace
26:22but I think there is also a growing
26:24need to look at other minoritized groups
26:26as well and
26:28especially from a perspective where we
26:30want to be reflective
26:32of the society and the world that we work in
26:34and that just does not start
26:36with India Inc
26:38but also with our academic
26:40institutions with our society
26:42even at our family levels within
26:44our loved ones so I think that's
26:46where I see and of course enabling
26:48while you get in women it's also
26:50about enabling women
26:52enabling them to be where they want to be
26:54in terms of their career aspirations
26:56respecting their choices I think
26:58that's really important
27:00and therefore I hope we will be on
27:02our way to a more equitable
27:04and inclusive world
27:06Shantanu as the only man on the panel any last
27:08thoughts that you would like to leave us with
27:10I think this is really encouraging
27:12Nuput that there is so many industries
27:14so many employers are really
27:16supporting the cause of getting a lot of
27:18women into the workforce what works for
27:20everybody during the crisis times
27:22works even when the crisis gets over
27:24I'm really very encouraged and I think
27:26that India has a great future coming
27:28forward. All right so on
27:30that note thank you all three of you
27:32for joining us on the big story and
27:34we're all hoping of course that this
27:36is not just a trend that
27:38we are talking about today it actually
27:40extends to later on as well thank
27:42you for joining in
27:44well with that it's a wrap on
27:46the big story thank you very much for joining
27:48in but news and updates continue
27:50on NDTV profit so stay with us
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