Conversation with Mary Hamilton

MacJunky
MacJunky
  • 2 days ago
After seeing one of Mary's posts and videos on LinkedIn, I know I had to make contact and have a conversation with her! You see, she's a rare find in that she knows the IT industry's issues precisely. So in this conversation, we'd like to share our views and touch on a bunch of other topics also.

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Transcript
00:00:00I just had an amazing conversation with Mary.
00:00:04I met Mary on LinkedIn, someone I know liked one of her posts, and it so intrigued me.
00:00:11I did a bit of stalking, found out that her and her husband run an IT business.
00:00:19But what really intrigued me and why I wanted to have this conversation, I wanted to share
00:00:23it with you, is that her messaging is amazing.
00:00:27The way she's trying to change IT in the sense that, when we talk about this, basically
00:00:34the end result matters for the client.
00:00:36The client doesn't need to know what steps necessarily you took to get to that end result.
00:00:42And I think IT guys, IT people, whether you're first line, second line, third line, can really
00:00:47understand a lot from this conversation because, again, if you are in IT, you will understand
00:00:56that the end result matters.
00:00:58If you're a consumer and the end client, you understand what IT people go through in getting
00:01:05those things.
00:01:06And there has to be a marry between the two factions because, when the end user calls,
00:01:14they have an issue that needs to be resolved.
00:01:17So they already have annoyances.
00:01:22And the IT guy, his job is to fix that annoyance, no matter how annoying it is.
00:01:32But anyway, fantastic conversation.
00:01:34I really do hope you enjoy it.
00:01:37Here's our conversation.
00:01:38You've got to listen to it.
00:01:39Here it is.
00:01:41Hey, thanks for coming.
00:01:45Thanks for being here.
00:01:47I thought I'd send you a video message so you kind of get to know me a little bit.
00:01:52Because we've never met before, obviously, for people listening to this.
00:01:57And the whole point of the conversation basically is to just meet people in the same realm,
00:02:04you know, the same thing that I do.
00:02:07And somebody I know liked one of your posts.
00:02:13And I saw it.
00:02:14And I was like, OK, I need to know more about this person.
00:02:17So I stalked you, went through your website and everything.
00:02:23I'm like, oh, man, I'm just like nodding in agreement.
00:02:25I always say this thing about nodding in agreement.
00:02:28I'm like, OK, this would be a cool person to have a conversation with.
00:02:33Because not only are you in IT, but just like my last week's conversation I had with somebody,
00:02:44we were also talking about the communication between the IT field people and the end user,
00:02:53the end client.
00:02:55And I've been in tech for 30 years or so.
00:03:00And I've always been like that, in a way.
00:03:03I always try to explain things really simply, like you're a five-year-old.
00:03:07And sometimes that comes across as if, you know, why are you talking to me like this?
00:03:12But, you know, there is a way of saying things and there are ways of saying things.
00:03:16And I managed to do it in such a way where it's helped me.
00:03:21And when you were saying it, I was like, OK, well, obviously, I'm not alone, because now
00:03:25I'm speaking to people.
00:03:27So tell me how it started for you, why you started in that clear, simple communication
00:03:33thing.
00:03:34Well, the same reason.
00:03:35I'm like, not only, you know, I worked in the background with my husband and this.
00:03:41And so I dealt a lot in the customer service.
00:03:43And he's really good with people.
00:03:46But as I grew and have come into cybersecurity, I've come into sort of meeting people from
00:03:50around the world.
00:03:52And then talking to pure techs, I was like, I want to punch you in your face, you know,
00:03:59because they're talking to you.
00:04:01And, you know, like, being a woman doesn't have everything to do with it, because I hear
00:04:06them talking to people all the time, all right?
00:04:10As we start nailing down, I started going through, like, every IT company is pretty
00:04:15much the same.
00:04:16Like, we all fix the same crap, right?
00:04:17We all fix your computer.
00:04:19We vary in our approach.
00:04:21We vary in the tools that we use.
00:04:23I'm like, but you know what?
00:04:24I'm a female, and I like clear communication, and I like face-to-face.
00:04:28And I'm not a tech.
00:04:30Like, I cannot write code to save my life, but I know technology.
00:04:35I know cybersecurity.
00:04:37You know, and I'm like, when I'm talking to people, and they started, I've got like a
00:04:40fuzz floating around, sorry.
00:04:43But when I started talking to them, they were like, oh my gosh, like, I actually understand
00:04:48you.
00:04:49Like, your husband's amazing, but I understand you.
00:04:51And I was like, so I just started asking them, I said, well, what is your frustration?
00:04:54Like, what do you hear?
00:04:55And they all say the same thing.
00:04:57I just asked a guy yesterday, I was like, what do you hate about technology?
00:05:01He goes, oh my gosh, he's like, I get these guys, they don't know what they're talking
00:05:05about.
00:05:06They don't know what they're doing.
00:05:07And they waste my time.
00:05:08I really need to be talking to somebody who's like a level three.
00:05:10He's like, and then nobody can help me.
00:05:12And I'm like, so I know I'm not making it up at all.
00:05:17This is not.
00:05:18So that's what led is my interaction, and it only gets fortified when I meet people.
00:05:24And I was at an IT conference, and I was talking to these two techs who were like, I've been
00:05:28in the business for like 30 years.
00:05:31And I'm talking to them about a security tool.
00:05:33And I was like, they're like, I can't sell this.
00:05:38This is the model we use.
00:05:39If we're an organization, I deal in finance, and we protect them.
00:05:44So we are only protecting basically the echelon of the company, 30% of the people we protect.
00:05:50And I was like, oh, so you mean the 70% of people you're not protecting?
00:05:53He's like, no.
00:05:54And I was like, last time I checked, I thought security was protecting 100% of the people.
00:05:58And then he started talking down to me.
00:06:01And I was like, I had to take a deep breath.
00:06:04I was like, I said, excuse me?
00:06:07And he was like, well, maybe I need to come sit with you and learn how to sell.
00:06:10I said, well, maybe you do, and then you'll learn how to secure something and sell something.
00:06:14And I was like, but that is the attitude, that you think you are demigods.
00:06:19You think, and I understand the way their mind works.
00:06:23They see a problem, and they want to deal specifically with that problem.
00:06:28That's all they can see.
00:06:29And they're like, how do you not understand?
00:06:30That's logic.
00:06:31Like, I know that's how they operate.
00:06:34Their EQ is so sucky.
00:06:38It's crazy.
00:06:39I come across it all the time.
00:06:42We all take over other people's work, and then you, I mean, everyone has their own way
00:06:47of working.
00:06:48I mean, we all do.
00:06:51So when you're taking on, when I'm taking on other people's work, other people's projects,
00:06:56like the IT guy isn't there anymore.
00:06:58I asked them why.
00:06:59He said, well, we didn't understand anything.
00:07:01Yes.
00:07:02That's the main thing.
00:07:03It's like, I don't know why he wanted us to use this.
00:07:06And it's a shame, because what happens, you're in the shit, because you've really got to
00:07:13get it fixed.
00:07:15And whatever you do isn't going to be correct, whatever you do.
00:07:19Because they've got such a bad taste in their mouth, basically, that they don't really trust
00:07:25anyone.
00:07:26If you cut, if you, I've luckily won a lot over, not everyone, but when you say to, actually
00:07:35talk to them simply, individually, like a normal person, rather than a techie, it makes
00:07:41sense.
00:07:42They're like, oh, this is why.
00:07:44And then you wonder why they use specific tools, like why did you, why are you using
00:07:49this?
00:07:50There's only five of you here.
00:07:51Why are you using this stuff?
00:07:52Well, we were told.
00:07:54And this is the thing that I really hate about IT, is because IT guys, and I hate being called
00:08:01IT, because IT guys use tech because they want to use it, not because the client needs
00:08:06it.
00:08:07And this is a massive, massive problem for people like us who just want to help people.
00:08:12Like, this is all you need.
00:08:14And I come across it all the time.
00:08:19It's really shitty, basically, when that happens.
00:08:21We can change it.
00:08:22That's like my determination.
00:08:23It's like, coming into this learning, I was like, IT has done wrong, fundamentally.
00:08:27It has done wrong, and you're, it's exactly right.
00:08:30Like they, they project what they want, what they think is cool, and they don't listen
00:08:36to the company.
00:08:37And this is such, really, technology is a really personal thing.
00:08:41If you think of a company and everything that they're comprised of, and how, the personality
00:08:46that they have, how do they want to communicate?
00:08:47How do they want to sell?
00:08:49How do they, you know, because really security and stuff, that's like peripheral.
00:08:54They're focused on how can I make money?
00:08:56How can I use this?
00:08:57And that's what it should be.
00:08:59And techs are like, well, let me come in and get you, you know, they make it, they're really
00:09:04narcissistic in that way.
00:09:06And they make it about them, not the end user, not the company, not how can I provide for
00:09:11them?
00:09:12I put it in the same kind of box as garage people, or you take your car to the garage,
00:09:24you don't know what's happening.
00:09:25You just need it fixed.
00:09:26I mean, luckily, I know how to build cars.
00:09:28So that's okay.
00:09:29So when I take it to a garage, I know roughly what's going on, what they're doing.
00:09:34But before I knew that, you take your car to the garage, and they're like, well, we
00:09:38need to do this and this and this, and you're like, okay, I don't know.
00:09:42I have no idea.
00:09:43You get a fat bill, whatever.
00:09:45And the thing, the problem with IT is because it's not just one bill.
00:09:49It's an ongoing thing.
00:09:50So they're being fleeced.
00:09:52I know so many companies that have been fleeced, completely fleeced by paying for stuff that
00:09:58they just don't need.
00:10:00Because they haven't, as you say, communicated properly with the client and vice versa.
00:10:05I mean, a client is, I got to be honest, the client has to take some blame.
00:10:12And what I mean by that is that the client doesn't know, responsibility, the client doesn't
00:10:18know.
00:10:19And if you don't know, please ask someone else.
00:10:22Please ask a few people.
00:10:24And there's a difference between, you know, me working differently to you and vice versa.
00:10:30However, you'll get the understanding.
00:10:32If you ask like four or five people, you kind of understand.
00:10:36There's a standard.
00:10:37Yeah, there's a standard.
00:10:38Exactly.
00:10:39Yeah.
00:10:41But 98%, it's the IT companies.
00:10:44Yeah.
00:10:45And that, see, that's my goal.
00:10:46I'm like, we, okay, companies and users, the regular old Joe, right?
00:10:52Like, they really don't have a clue.
00:10:54And who is teaching them?
00:10:56The tech?
00:10:57You know, I'm like, they don't know the standard in which they need to operate and they don't
00:11:01know the questions to ask.
00:11:03And they should.
00:11:04Like, it's like if, I don't know, like Amazon called Amazon, and I quote, Amazon, called
00:11:10my husband the other week and was like, we have notification that somebody was trying
00:11:14to buy a $1,000 iPhone on your account.
00:11:17Can you please update your information?
00:11:19I'm like, most because I talked to them, doctors, smart people, they have common sense.
00:11:24And they were like, oh, no, like, yeah, I just gave my information.
00:11:28And I was like, flip the script.
00:11:32You know, I'm like, how about you tell them?
00:11:33Why don't you tell me what my account information is like?
00:11:37And that's the whole thing.
00:11:39People don't know because no one's teaching them and no one's speaking it simply to them
00:11:43to say, here's the standard.
00:11:45Yeah.
00:11:46You know what I do when that happens?
00:11:49I basically say to them, if you walk down the street and someone says, can I have your
00:11:52wallet?
00:11:53What would you say?
00:11:54No.
00:11:55Simple.
00:11:56That's it.
00:11:57Yeah.
00:11:58Like, right.
00:11:59You say no, go away.
00:12:00What the hell?
00:12:01You know, if someone walked down the street and looked like a policeman, but didn't show
00:12:03the badge, what would you say?
00:12:05Give me the badge.
00:12:06It's the same thing.
00:12:07It's just common sense for a lot of things.
00:12:09So there is a bit of responsibility for the client.
00:12:14But installing systems, apps, services that the client need, it totally falls on the IT
00:12:22guy.
00:12:23So it's crazy.
00:12:24I've had so many of those kind of calls, like you just said.
00:12:28It's crazy.
00:12:29Yeah.
00:12:30I even had a friend who, again, they're lawyers and stuff.
00:12:34So they're not stupid people, right?
00:12:37And she gave them the whole credit card, but the last four digits.
00:12:43But the last four digits, luckily, because she said, this don't sound right.
00:12:47And I'm like, wait, you've been on the phone for 15 minutes.
00:12:50And you're giving everything, your data.
00:12:54But just at the last second, you're like, no, why didn't you?
00:12:58Oh, well.
00:12:59I know.
00:13:00And that's why I'm like, preach, preach, preach, preach, preach, educate, educate, educate.
00:13:05It's only one company at a time.
00:13:07And that's, I guess, obviously what I'm saying is striking a nerve with people because I
00:13:12get more like, that's right.
00:13:14That's right.
00:13:15And I'm like, yes.
00:13:16So let's start a movement.
00:13:17Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:13:18Let's change the way IT is done.
00:13:19Let's redefine the industry because we're not going away.
00:13:25It's only increasing.
00:13:27But it's become just as integral as human resources, just as much as finance.
00:13:33You have to have this side, but you have to have people.
00:13:37And that's where I'm like, I love it.
00:13:39It's kind of sick.
00:13:40I'm not going to lie.
00:13:41But meeting other guys in the industry and they talk to me and they're like, what?
00:13:47You own the company?
00:13:48You do a cybersecurity?
00:13:49I'm like, yes.
00:13:51And then they give me this look like you're never going to get anywhere.
00:13:54I was like, that's my biggest weapon, baby.
00:13:57You just underestimate me.
00:13:59And I'm going to cut your feet off from under you because that's the attitude you carry
00:14:02with you.
00:14:03That's the Bruce Lee thing, right?
00:14:05Yes.
00:14:06That's basically the Bruce Lee thing.
00:14:07I mean, it's crazy.
00:14:08I mean, you know, I worked at huge organizations and there were two, three, three female IT
00:14:16guys.
00:14:17I'm just going to call them IT guys, IT people there.
00:14:21And it's no fucking difference.
00:14:23However, one was crap, but it doesn't mean she was rubbish.
00:14:28But the thing is, I don't think anyone, and we'll be getting to the male-female thing,
00:14:33which I think is a stupid thing in itself.
00:14:36Because if you're qualified to do a job, just do the freaking job.
00:14:40And if you've got a quota to get a black person in or a brown person in or a white, that's
00:14:47stupid.
00:14:48That just irritates the bejesus out of me.
00:14:50That really does.
00:14:51It doesn't matter.
00:14:52If a dog could do the work, hire the freaking dog, basically.
00:14:56Yes.
00:14:57It shouldn't be anything else.
00:15:00So if the person can't do the job, no matter who they are, I'm calling them out.
00:15:08That's just the way it is.
00:15:09It doesn't matter who it is.
00:15:10I'm not here to walk on eggshells to say, you know, I'm sorry.
00:15:17But that's just my personality.
00:15:20But that's who we are.
00:15:21But that's how it should be.
00:15:25See, I've had more men encourage me in this industry than ever talk down to me.
00:15:31That's like one in probably like a hundred, honestly.
00:15:34But a lot of females shy away because they just don't know.
00:15:40I'm like, this is a whole industry that is wide open.
00:15:43I'm like, nobody's saying no.
00:15:47Nobody's going, no, you can't do this.
00:15:49Okay.
00:15:50So here's the thing.
00:15:52I still wouldn't encourage, right?
00:15:56Because encouragement still gives you that fine line as male and female.
00:16:00Does that make sense?
00:16:02It's a weird way of thinking about it.
00:16:05I wouldn't say you're a female, go for it.
00:16:08The reason I called you is because of the work that you did.
00:16:11I didn't care who you looked like, what you were or pink hair.
00:16:14And I like that.
00:16:15I like that.
00:16:16Right.
00:16:17I respect that.
00:16:18So that's the point.
00:16:20people would just respect the work rather than respect the person.
00:16:24No, that sounds weird.
00:16:25But you know what I mean.
00:16:26I know what you mean.
00:16:27But like for here, what I see, and to me, everything's politicized, but I've got daughters
00:16:35and I don't want them disqualifying themselves just because it seems to be a specific way.
00:16:42If you're interested in passion, and that's the problem that I see is like too many people
00:16:49in the educational system, especially the public educational system here.
00:16:53There's just like, there's nobody saying, there's a cyber high school that opened up
00:16:59in Huntsville, Alabama, where they're getting people from those counties and they're that
00:17:04like the government is basically funding it, but it's based on their ability, you know,
00:17:11so whether they're male or female and being in rural settings where I've been, they don't,
00:17:17it's not options for them.
00:17:19And this is where I'm like, I don't come from a highly educated background, from a family
00:17:24who like, that's not what I come from.
00:17:26I don't care.
00:17:27Like, this is what I want to do, so I'm going to do it and I'm going to do everything with
00:17:31excellence and it comes down to attitude, but my thing is, girls, it's a psyche.
00:17:39It has nothing to do so much with, well, it is female.
00:17:44That's just a female bend.
00:17:46I'm not highly emotional, so I do have a hard time, but I understand the way they think.
00:17:51And I'm like, they need to be able to say, I can hold my eyes up and I can walk in and
00:17:56as long as I know what I'm doing, I should be judged on my merit, not on what I am.
00:18:01Yeah, I understand.
00:18:02And that's the voice, that's the voice that I'm proclaiming for females because they're
00:18:08weak.
00:18:09I completely understand.
00:18:10That I completely understand.
00:18:11I think the problem is, you've come across it when IT guys that have been in it for X
00:18:17amount of years, and I've been in it for 30, more than 30 years now, I don't give a shit
00:18:24who it is.
00:18:26It's more a case of, I've never, ever spoken down to anybody in any sense, unless it's
00:18:33sarcasm basically, because of funniness, nothing to do with anything else.
00:18:38It could be anybody, I don't give a shit.
00:18:43It's always down to, for me, the thing that irritates me more than anything, forget work
00:18:49or anything, is just people not doing their jobs properly.
00:18:53And this isn't anything to do with IT, it's like, I go to an office and somebody gets
00:18:59me a drink and it's fizzed up.
00:19:02Well, I'm sorry, but that, you know, so it doesn't matter what, just things irritate
00:19:08me.
00:19:09Yeah.
00:19:10Halfway, I call it halfway, barely there, just enough.
00:19:13That is an attitude that I cannot stand, because it's not productive.
00:19:18And I'm like, there are too many people out there who can do something.
00:19:21I'm like, why am I going to waste your time with you?
00:19:23Right.
00:19:24So, and that's, to me, that's indicative of our industry, because people don't know, then
00:19:28they feel like they can get away with more, and then they can do things halfway.
00:19:33And when that comes down, that's not, that is not generous.
00:19:35That is personality.
00:19:36That is character.
00:19:37That's personality.
00:19:38And they're like, it's good enough for who it is.
00:19:40And I'm like, no, that's, no.
00:19:42We hold the power of life and death over these people's networks, for the love of God.
00:19:47You know, like, have some pride in it.
00:19:49I know.
00:19:50Sorry.
00:19:51It's crazy.
00:19:52But again, it comes down, comes down to, and I haven't, for the past two years, I've started
00:19:57to see a shift in the more, be open about it, stop being a dick, basically, right?
00:20:03And the thing is, it's the old school of thought, where I know this, it's going to be good,
00:20:12it's going to be good for them, so I'm going to use it.
00:20:14This is me.
00:20:15This is the, these people we don't like.
00:20:18And I'm going to get recurring revenue.
00:20:21So let's just install it.
00:20:24And you're going to a home who's got like, you know, massive networks.
00:20:28I mean, it's stupid.
00:20:29I have one here because that's what I do.
00:20:31I haven't got a big house, but I got, you know, it's quite big.
00:20:34So I put in a nice mesh system and it's huge and it's servers and cameras and stuff.
00:20:40It's brilliant, because I can do that.
00:20:42Would I install that at anyone's house?
00:20:44No freaking way, because I don't want the hassle.
00:20:49I don't know.
00:20:50Forget them.
00:20:51I don't want the hassle.
00:20:52Forget them.
00:20:53It's a lot.
00:20:54Yeah.
00:20:55It's a lot.
00:20:56And, you know, if you're thinking, oh, I'm going to install all this stuff because I
00:20:59really enjoy it.
00:21:01You shouldn't be doing this.
00:21:03You should not be doing this.
00:21:04And it just irritates me because I see it again all the time.
00:21:08Yeah.
00:21:09All the time.
00:21:10So when I meet people like you who say simply because my thing is simplicity, not laziness,
00:21:16simplicity and simplicity is really freaking hard.
00:21:19I say this all the time.
00:21:21But if you get it right, it pays dividends.
00:21:25It really does.
00:21:26Yes.
00:21:27Yeah.
00:21:28For more than just...
00:21:29Preach it.
00:21:30I mean, it's crazy how people just don't get it.
00:21:32They're like, oh, I'm just going to do all this stuff.
00:21:34I hate hacks, for instance.
00:21:35I hate hacks.
00:21:37Remember when there were cups for doing printer networks and stuff?
00:21:42Never used it because I personally thought it was a hack because if it goes wrong, it's
00:21:45on your head.
00:21:46Yeah.
00:21:47I would just tell them, get another printer.
00:21:50Just get another printer.
00:21:51And that's it.
00:21:52What's going to be more beneficial for them, not for me?
00:21:58This is something that the guys who are in tech that work with us, I'm always like, really
00:22:04tech is simple.
00:22:05At the end of the day, it really is.
00:22:07There's a few components you need.
00:22:09The back end, they're all like, it is not simple.
00:22:12There's nothing...
00:22:13I'm like, I hear you.
00:22:17The back end, it can be intricate, but I'm like, you overcomplicate it.
00:22:22All they need to know is, is my stuff working?
00:22:26Am I going to be able to produce X, Y, Z, and am I safe?
00:22:30They don't need a dissertation on products.
00:22:37They're like, I just want it fixed.
00:22:41And then tell me really how.
00:22:43This is how we're securing.
00:22:45They want to know some, but they don't care about, well, I had to go into this app and
00:22:49then I had to connect this and then I had to go in and this code and I had to write
00:22:54this script and then I had to execute.
00:22:55I'm like, they don't care.
00:22:56They don't care.
00:22:57They don't care.
00:22:58Nor should they.
00:22:59But that's what their pride is.
00:23:00It's on my about page.
00:23:01It's on my about page.
00:23:03I actually say this stuff, I'm like, no one cares.
00:23:06I don't want to sit here explaining anything to you.
00:23:10If you want to, once I finish, I'll be glad to explain it to you.
00:23:15But you just need to know, is it working?
00:23:17Do I need to push this button or this button?
00:23:20That's the, it's the end result.
00:23:21I always work from the end result.
00:23:23What's the end result?
00:23:24What is it that you want doing?
00:23:25Well, I want to move my iPhone from here to here.
00:23:28Okay.
00:23:29Well, you got an arm.
00:23:30There you go.
00:23:31No, a guy would just use a fricking robot to program and I'm like, yeah, it's, it's
00:23:37silly.
00:23:38There's no need for it.
00:23:40Again, simplicity isn't easy.
00:23:43Simplicity is easy because you can just move it.
00:23:47But the end result matters.
00:23:50And I put this on my website because, and I hope people read it.
00:23:54I don't know if they do, but the end result is the thing that you've got to work towards,
00:24:02not all this other bump.
00:24:04Because even though you enjoy it, you as the tech IT guy enjoy doing it.
00:24:09Do it, do it for yourself.
00:24:11Like I did with this network.
00:24:12Do it for yourself and enjoy it and love it.
00:24:16So when an opportunity comes and you need to install it at a big, you can do it because
00:24:21you've done it.
00:24:22Yeah.
00:24:23But don't do it from mom and pop who needs just a normal mesh network or whatever it
00:24:28is.
00:24:29It just, it's just not necessary.
00:24:31So yeah, my whole thing is keep it simple, IT simple.
00:24:35I write that everywhere.
00:24:37And yeah, let's, let's, let's create this freaking movement because I think it's needed.
00:24:44Yes, partner.
00:24:45Like you're on the other side of the world and I, you get like, I know the regulation.
00:24:50That's one thing that is coming to the United States.
00:24:53Regulation is on our doorstep when it comes to technology and security and whatnot.
00:24:58It's already started on the state levels, but it needs to be because I'm like, you got
00:25:03what we call, what is it, a jack in a trunk or something like that.
00:25:07Trunk slammer.
00:25:08So, you know, just running around, chucking a truck, my husband just helped me chucking
00:25:12a truck.
00:25:13Okay.
00:25:14Sure.
00:25:15Just, you know, running around fixing it and these businesses are trusting and again, that
00:25:21goes to the lack of education and they do need to take some responsibility because it's like,
00:25:25you're purposely hiding your head in the sand.
00:25:28You're purposely and willfully ignoring.
00:25:31Now they can't ignore it.
00:25:32I mean, have you looked at the US news and all the hacks happening?
00:25:35Like they can't ignore it.
00:25:37Like it's finally they, and you know why?
00:25:39Because they have felt it.
00:25:41Yeah.
00:25:42They have felt it.
00:25:43Our gas has been interrupted.
00:25:44Our food supply, like here's the deal.
00:25:47It's Tyson chicken nuggets in the grocery store.
00:25:50Like they don't have those right now.
00:25:51Why?
00:25:52Because the hack.
00:25:53Oh really?
00:25:54Yes.
00:25:55Chicken nuggets not in the store because of the hack?
00:25:56Chicken nuggets.
00:25:57Chicken nuggets.
00:25:58Yes.
00:25:59Oh wow.
00:26:00I mean, it's not like JBS, like Tyson and Purdue were part of that and they contrive
00:26:05like now, that was just my little simple observation when I went to the store and I've gone like
00:26:09three times.
00:26:10I'm like, there still hasn't been any chicken nuggets there.
00:26:11I'm like, but that's when people start listening that when they feel it and because now it's
00:26:19everything's ethereal, it's happening, you know, oh, it's happened to the United States
00:26:23government.
00:26:24Well, I don't know what happens to data.
00:26:25I don't know what happens when my, you know, social security number gets out there.
00:26:29They don't know.
00:26:31It's crazy.
00:26:32Yeah.
00:26:33I'm like simple.
00:26:34Your data equals money.
00:26:35So here's what you do.
00:26:36You know, the other thing as we kind of touched on it about the client being at fault in a
00:26:41little way, I would add a bit more percentage on that because we put out so much content,
00:26:48so many videos, so many guides, whatever, but the general, the general public, the person
00:26:54who just wants it to work, don't have time to read, listen, watch.
00:26:58No, they don't.
00:26:59It's not entertaining.
00:27:00Who wants to, what you go through on LinkedIn, just LinkedIn, even YouTube, I can tell you
00:27:06now I'm like, if you want people to hear, you got to produce content that they want
00:27:13to hear.
00:27:14Right.
00:27:15So I'm like, you've got to speak to them in their language and how they're going.
00:27:20Because I'm like, don't tell me people don't got time.
00:27:22They got time.
00:27:23How much time do people spend on Tik Tok and Instagram and Facebook and Snapchat?
00:27:27You know what I'm saying?
00:27:28Yeah.
00:27:29Like, watching TV.
00:27:30They spend time.
00:27:31It's just nobody knows that, all the IT people I see, they're like, the ring doorbell.
00:27:35Oh, you gotcha.
00:27:36Oh, I hate that.
00:27:37I'm like, I wouldn't watch that.
00:27:40Shoot me.
00:27:41Like, if you want to torture me, do that.
00:27:43So you know, this is where hopefully conversations like this that people can connect with and
00:27:50that's the whole thing.
00:27:51There needs to be the right voices speaking that people want to listen to because they're
00:27:56not going to listen to the suit in front of the government thing going, we have a state
00:28:02of emergency with cybersecurity.
00:28:05And to be honest, they're not going to listen to people who look like IT.
00:28:08Does that make sense?
00:28:10Yes.
00:28:11You know, they're just not, you know, ponytail, shirt, pizza, pizza body, you know, that kind
00:28:16of thing.
00:28:17I mean, I have a bit of a pizza belly, but no, I mean, you know, I mean, it's weird to
00:28:24talk to actually, you know, the type and I see it a lot now.
00:28:28They give a lot of information now.
00:28:30And it's weird because if you watch YouTube, I wonder who they're making it for.
00:28:35They're making it for other IT guys, other IT people.
00:28:38So they're making that ad revenue and stuff, but it's not actually getting to the people
00:28:43who they really want to get to.
00:28:45Decision makers, people who are influencing companies, who are leading other people, setting
00:28:50standards.
00:28:51That's my point.
00:28:52I mean, when I started doing this thing called tech minimalism, I created different types
00:28:59of videos.
00:29:00If you go through my whole history, it's like two years or so, you'll see that the change,
00:29:04the shift from this is how you use Todoist.
00:29:07No one gives a...
00:29:08I mean, the end user doesn't care.
00:29:10Yeah.
00:29:11It's like, this doesn't make sense because no one's going to watch it.
00:29:15Who's going to watch it?
00:29:16There's a billion and one Todoist apps or whatever, videos.
00:29:20So I just got into the philosophy of simplifying things and that worked.
00:29:26So every day I was making videos, they were like three minute videos, different ideas,
00:29:32and it worked really well.
00:29:34I'm probably going to go back to it.
00:29:37And then I started doing these and it's been slow in the sense that people who are contacting
00:29:44me are actually end users and I'm like, wait, you haven't got time to watch my Todoist video,
00:29:51which was, you know, seven minutes to show you how things work, but you love to listen
00:29:56to this stuff for an hour.
00:29:58Yeah.
00:29:59Again, like you said, it's the messaging, it's what they're hearing and then it's true.
00:30:04It's kind of...
00:30:05You got to be able to...
00:30:06You got to be able to...
00:30:07Yeah, you got to draw them in and make them want to listen.
00:30:10I mean, that's just human nature and especially in the way the whole world receives anything
00:30:18or buys anything or connects with anything.
00:30:21Because of technology, sitting there and being so sterile and, you know, it doesn't and people
00:30:29are like, no.
00:30:30But if you watch what people are picking, what they're choosing, I'm like, I look at
00:30:34my buying habits.
00:30:36You know, I'm like, the things that I buy that are marketed to me on here, I'm like,
00:30:42it's because I connect with it and because it speaks my language, you know, and that's...
00:30:49This is what IT people...
00:30:50And it's starting to happen.
00:30:51Like, you can see it.
00:30:52Like, you're doing...
00:30:53I'm like, obviously, this is something going across the whole world.
00:30:56Like, people are picking up the vibe and they're like, well, you know, because the next generation
00:31:01too is coming in and they understand technology, but they don't want to deal with cold, ethereal
00:31:07things.
00:31:08Like...
00:31:09No.
00:31:10And like I said, this is extremely personal.
00:31:11Yes, it's technology and it's a piece of metal and some copper and some...
00:31:16Like all boned together and it's an internet.
00:31:19It's something that we can't see, but yet it affects our lives so deeply.
00:31:23I mean, for the love of God, people's self-worth is now dependent on things that happen online,
00:31:28you know?
00:31:29So...
00:31:30It's strange because we all use technology.
00:31:35And I mean, I run a company called McJunkie, so Apple stuff.
00:31:40And when their Apple stuff stops working, I want it now.
00:31:44Yes.
00:31:45I want it tomorrow.
00:31:46Yeah.
00:31:47When you say to them, well, okay, I told this story last week and I'll tell you.
00:31:51So I had a client who had a computer...
00:31:54She had a PC, wanted to go over to Mac, went over to Mac.
00:31:59We set everything up on G Suite because I said it was better for you, although I don't
00:32:02use Google products, but it was best for her.
00:32:05She used it.
00:32:06We'll put everything on cloud, everything two-factored, fantastic lockdown.
00:32:10It was locked.
00:32:11Everything was working.
00:32:13She phoned me in tears saying, someone just stole my laptop on the train.
00:32:19In tears.
00:32:20In tears.
00:32:21And I said, well, firstly, calm down, relax, you know, trying to calm her down.
00:32:25Go to the Apple store and buy another computer.
00:32:28She's like, oh, geez, do I have to?
00:32:29I said, yeah, just go and buy one.
00:32:31She bought one.
00:32:32She was in the Apple store.
00:32:33And I said, log in.
00:32:34And everything was back.
00:32:37Everything was back.
00:32:38And she's like, is that it?
00:32:39And I'm like, that's what we spent all that time and effort into because the property
00:32:45doesn't matter.
00:32:46Yes.
00:32:47Data matters.
00:32:48Yes.
00:32:49Right?
00:32:50So you can now carry on working.
00:32:53And from that, because she sent me loads of chocolates and I posted it on my blog and
00:32:58stuff and people are like contacting me and say, can you do this for me?
00:33:02Like, yeah.
00:33:03And that's the messaging.
00:33:04It's the end result.
00:33:05Like how easy it was.
00:33:06It's the end result.
00:33:07Like you said, that's the value of what we do.
00:33:11All the other stuff.
00:33:12It doesn't matter.
00:33:13The stuff that we do behind level two, level three, shouldn't matter to anybody.
00:33:21It's the level one.
00:33:23That's the face of your company who you should pay more to, actually, because they're the
00:33:29ambassadors of your company.
00:33:31I've always said this support, support has always been a lost leader, lost cause in companies
00:33:37because they don't, they're in a basement.
00:33:39They don't care about them while you got to spend this much money on monitors.
00:33:43Who wants monitors?
00:33:44Like, you're kidding me, right?
00:33:45I worked at ITN News Network and we were in the basement.
00:33:50And there were constantly cutting funds to the department until something big happened.
00:33:56And then we got loads of money, like, okay, we can't have this happen again.
00:33:59We're like, we've been telling you for fricking years, you know, you're just not listening
00:34:02to us.
00:34:03Without us.
00:34:04And that's the shift.
00:34:05It's like, if you don't have, you got to think foundationally.
00:34:08If your foundation isn't set properly, then everything else isn't going to function or
00:34:13build properly.
00:34:14So this is like, people do not, the resistance we get is, you're too expensive.
00:34:20I don't.
00:34:21And I'm like, but see, that's what people communicate.
00:34:24I'm like, and just like you said, this is what you want in the end.
00:34:27This is what you want to function.
00:34:29This is the continuity.
00:34:30Like, this is the simplicity you want.
00:34:32It's the end result.
00:34:33It's the end result.
00:34:34Yeah.
00:34:35So you've got to invest.
00:34:36Like, if you don't want to pay more down the road, then invest up front and then you'll
00:34:42pay minimal.
00:34:43But then when it matters, you're not going to pay as much because think of that woman.
00:34:48Yeah.
00:34:49Yeah.
00:34:50I mean, exactly.
00:34:51She's, she's, she's, she's a coach.
00:34:54So she had to do calls and stuff.
00:34:55And if obviously if she had to cancel all that, because she couldn't, lost all her data.
00:35:00Yeah.
00:35:01Her business was gone, basically.
00:35:03And this is the thing.
00:35:04And now she's working and she's like, I can't believe what, you know, she couldn't, she
00:35:10seriously couldn't fathom how we got everything back.
00:35:13Everything was back, you know, and I had another client who, um, he's, he was on stage actually
00:35:21at the time.
00:35:23And he was giving a presentation and he was using Google slides and the computer just,
00:35:28just gave up, just died.
00:35:29No power, nothing.
00:35:30Boom.
00:35:31And he's on stage.
00:35:32And he called me and I was like, you do know you could put it on your phone, right?
00:35:36Just connect, just get them to connect to the phone.
00:35:38He did.
00:35:39It was a great presentation.
00:35:40It went really well because he kind of, he was good on stage kind of thing.
00:35:43He called me later and he's like, seriously, is that it?
00:35:47I'm like, yeah.
00:35:48So now he only uses his phone.
00:35:50He doesn't even take his computer because we spent the time and the end result was make
00:35:55sure everything is simple.
00:35:57That's the end result for that guy.
00:35:58That's right.
00:35:59So again, it's, I just hope people, IT guys who are listening to this, please keep it
00:36:05simple because it doesn't matter what you do.
00:36:09As I said, level two, level three, level four, whatever it is.
00:36:13It matters.
00:36:14Yeah.
00:36:15The client doesn't care.
00:36:17Client doesn't care.
00:36:18We care.
00:36:19Level one, whatever.
00:36:20The face of the company cares and the client cares about the end result, but they don't
00:36:25care about that stuff.
00:36:27Yeah.
00:36:28And what they do is significant.
00:36:29Like obviously we need them.
00:36:31And so it's a fine line for me where I'm not trying to degradate techs because I need
00:36:37them.
00:36:38I can't do what, I can't write code.
00:36:40That's not my thing.
00:36:41No.
00:36:42So they're integral to what we do, but it's like you have to be uncomfortable.
00:36:48You're going to have to change your skin a little bit to be able to connect with that
00:36:53client.
00:36:54And it's not, it shouldn't be left to a handful of people who see it, who are more sales oriented,
00:36:58who are more people.
00:37:00You are perfectly capable of doing it.
00:37:02This is how.
00:37:03Like if you, I'm sorry, you're going to, you probably hear my husband.
00:37:06It's fine.
00:37:07No worry.
00:37:08You'll hear my dog walking around in a moment.
00:37:11Yeah.
00:37:12But I mean what you're, so if every tech, like you said, if they can just make a millimeter
00:37:17shift to simplify their message to the end user, like cut out all the, like one of my
00:37:25techs was like, I don't want to, he's not on LinkedIn, so he won't see this at all or
00:37:31hear it, but I'm talking it brilliant.
00:37:38Absolutely brilliant man.
00:37:39You know, I'm like anything I tell him, he's like, well, we can, and he starts going off
00:37:43and I'm like, I don't care.
00:37:44I'm like, just do it, make it happen.
00:37:46Okay.
00:37:47But then he's like talking to me and I was going, cause I'm going over, I really talk
00:37:52to my techs every week.
00:37:53I'm like, this is how we're going to communicate with the clients.
00:37:55This is how you're, and it's my job as an owner, I need to do that for them.
00:38:00I need to help them learn how to communicate simply, effectively, you know, connect with
00:38:06the clients.
00:38:07And he's like, it's not my job to wipe their nap, like change their nappy and wipe their
00:38:11re-run.
00:38:12I was like, well, I mean technically it kind of is.
00:38:15Okay.
00:38:16Like you don't like it, but at the end of the day, that's what they want because they,
00:38:20it takes too much time.
00:38:22Everyone you just got through talking about, they have no clue how to do all that.
00:38:27She needed you to feed her, change her diaper, burp her and put her to bed.
00:38:33That's what she needed.
00:38:34Yeah.
00:38:35And then she woke up happy.
00:38:36Right.
00:38:37I'm like, that's what it's about, but.
00:38:40You know, there's this whole thing.
00:38:42Sometimes, you know, it doesn't matter what job you you're in, but sometimes you just
00:38:46kind of like, ah, I don't want to do it today.
00:38:48You know, or this week.
00:38:49I don't want to do it tomorrow.
00:38:50I just want to just stop.
00:38:51I'm just fed up with my clients.
00:38:52It happens to all of us.
00:38:53It happens to all of us in any field.
00:38:55And this is not just IT.
00:38:58And then someone said something to me, actually my best friend, she said to me, you do realize
00:39:04that if, if things didn't go wrong, you wouldn't be in work, right?
00:39:10You've got to think about that.
00:39:12Oh yeah.
00:39:13So a week later, I'm back in it basically.
00:39:16But this is the thing, like people, IT people do get annoyed with, oh God, do I have to
00:39:23do this?
00:39:24Well, please don't do that.
00:39:26Do it in your own time.
00:39:27Don't do it in front of the client.
00:39:29I have in the past, in the past, right?
00:39:31I'm 52 now.
00:39:32So I get it.
00:39:33And I know I should do certain things.
00:39:35And you can roll your eyes because you've heard the question billions of times, but
00:39:41the client is the, is, is the person that's asked you the first time, that one time.
00:39:47So you got to be really careful as to how you act when you, when you're answering or
00:39:52receiving that question.
00:39:54Now I do have a rule.
00:39:56I always say no question is a stupid question because it isn't, because it's a question.
00:40:01But if you ask me three times, I'm calling you out.
00:40:03There you go.
00:40:04There you go.
00:40:05And that is like teaching people, like guiding them through the process of, you know, not
00:40:12making the same mistake again and again and again.
00:40:16And that's what they were saying.
00:40:18Like there has to be some responsibility on the end user to do some common sense things.
00:40:24And I'm like, yes, absolutely.
00:40:27But that's the fight we fight every day.
00:40:29Yeah.
00:40:30You know?
00:40:31And that's just part of our job.
00:40:32Because they don't know.
00:40:33Yeah.
00:40:34They don't know.
00:40:35You're employed.
00:40:36You learned this stuff, whether you went to college, university, whatever.
00:40:39You learned this stuff to help.
00:40:41No.
00:40:42A lot of IT guys learned it because they enjoyed doing it.
00:40:46Like me.
00:40:47Yes.
00:40:48Right?
00:40:49I've been doing it since I was like eight years old.
00:40:50That's awesome.
00:40:52And my father used to give me money, pocket money.
00:40:55We didn't have that much money.
00:40:56We lived in London.
00:40:57And he said, here's some money.
00:40:59Go and get some sweets.
00:41:00And I'll be down the hardware stores buying batteries and lights and making doorbells
00:41:04for my bedroom.
00:41:05It's hilarious.
00:41:06That's how we started.
00:41:07Yeah.
00:41:08That's how we started.
00:41:10But we learned this stuff because we enjoy it.
00:41:14Right?
00:41:15And then we realized, oh, I can help someone with this.
00:41:17So let me help someone with this.
00:41:19Then it turns into a career.
00:41:21And it has done for me for 30 years, basically.
00:41:25And it's been great.
00:41:26And I love doing what I do.
00:41:28There are times that it gets annoying, but you've got to kind of push it down.
00:41:33You got to kind of.
00:41:34Yeah.
00:41:35Any industry.
00:41:36It's just the way it is.
00:41:37Any industry.
00:41:38Attorneys, nurses.
00:41:39I mean, for love.
00:41:40Think of all the nurses.
00:41:41Yeah.
00:41:42Do you really think they like dealing with people screaming at them because they got
00:41:44to get, you know, do their job?
00:41:46No.
00:41:47They don't.
00:41:48No.
00:41:49You know?
00:41:50So.
00:41:51When you're in the front line of anything, when you're working with clients directly,
00:41:53you're just going to get that.
00:41:54Yeah.
00:41:55If you're in the back office, you'll get it with your colleagues.
00:41:57Yeah.
00:41:58So you're going to get it, but it's in a different.
00:42:00Pick your pick your hard.
00:42:01Yeah.
00:42:02Yeah.
00:42:03Yeah.
00:42:04So but when.
00:42:05Yeah.
00:42:06No question is a stupid question.
00:42:07You're going to get the end result, which is the main thing.
00:42:11And you're golden.
00:42:12Yeah.
00:42:13Yeah.
00:42:14You know.
00:42:15So you guys obviously, I mean, I saw your videos.
00:42:19You were doing videos.
00:42:21What's your husband's name?
00:42:23Brian Hamilton.
00:42:24Brian.
00:42:25So does he get on the videos as well?
00:42:27Get him in.
00:42:28Just say hello.
00:42:29Come on, Brian.
00:42:30Yeah.
00:42:31Hey, Brian, come here.
00:42:32Well, see, I started.
00:42:33This is the thing.
00:42:34I, I saw a chain like stuff needed to happen.
00:42:37So I just started making videos and doing it.
00:42:40And I was like, whether I'm right or wrong, the market is not fair, but it is just.
00:42:45So if I suck, they will tell me, you know, and so far, I think it's been positive.
00:42:52I think what we are doing is the right way.
00:42:56Right way.
00:42:57Yeah.
00:42:58Doing things now.
00:42:59I don't know how long.
00:43:00Brian's been in it for a long time as well, I guess.
00:43:01Well, a lot longer than I have.
00:43:03He went to school for it.
00:43:04Right.
00:43:05So.
00:43:06I hate IT at times, man.
00:43:0720 years?
00:43:08Yeah.
00:43:09I can hear him.
00:43:10I hate IT sometimes.
00:43:11Yeah.
00:43:12Hey, Brian.
00:43:13Nice to meet you.
00:43:14Yeah.
00:43:15Here.
00:43:16So, by the way, it's a pleasure to meet you.
00:43:19Pleasure to meet you too.
00:43:21Let me do this so people see you as well.
00:43:24Go for it.
00:43:25Okay.
00:43:26So I thought it was hilarious what the message that you sent to my wife is because she was
00:43:32sharing me some of the frustrations that she's been having.
00:43:36And the last month, I have been getting some of the most prolific, arrogant responses.
00:43:45And I am just like.
00:43:46Wow.
00:43:47Wow.
00:43:48Seriously?
00:43:49Dude.
00:43:50Yeah.
00:43:51Like, here's an example.
00:43:52We are.
00:43:53I'm part of a group.
00:43:54I'm going to leave the group nameless, but one of the IT owners says, listen, I need
00:43:59somebody who will help me take a lead in an Office 365 migration.
00:44:04What he has said is, I don't know how to do this.
00:44:07I need someone to do it for me.
00:44:09This is too much for me.
00:44:11That's what he said without saying it.
00:44:14Wow.
00:44:15Right?
00:44:16So, everyone on there tells him how to do his job.
00:44:21I'm the only one that says, hey, if you like help to take a lead with this, it's no problem.
00:44:27But the guy just told you he didn't know how to do it, and he needs somebody to help him.
00:44:32Every one of you pointed to a tool set.
00:44:36And then I'm just like, I requested information about, hey, I need help with the manufacturing
00:44:43site.
00:44:46Machines have Windows XP.
00:44:47Can't do anything about it because they're CNC devices.
00:44:51Need help.
00:44:52Right.
00:44:53Yeah.
00:44:54So, the whole three paragraph condescension, well, they need to be doing this, they need
00:44:57to be doing that.
00:44:58I said, whoa, dude, pause.
00:44:59That's not the question I asked.
00:45:01I asked for help.
00:45:03I don't need your backstory of why they need to do this.
00:45:06By the way, the CNC device is a $40,000 device.
00:45:10Do you really think I'm going to get them to upgrade that?
00:45:13No.
00:45:14So, we got to come up with a different way to help them.
00:45:15And like, one by one, this stupid stuff drives me completely up a tree.
00:45:22So, for myself, I've just started snapping back.
00:45:24I'm just like, dude, I don't care.
00:45:25I know your language.
00:45:27And I'm like, y'all hide behind monitors and have all this intense keyboard courage until
00:45:32you talk to somebody face to face.
00:45:33And it's so, like, irritating.
00:45:36That's one of the reasons why, like, I know you probably got to get going, but I firmly
00:45:41believe in you.
00:45:42No, no, no.
00:45:43Carry on.
00:45:44I mean, I was just going to say, like, this is what we were talking about, about techies
00:45:49know stuff and they want to use the technology because they want to use it.
00:45:54But they're not actually thinking about the end user, like how easy it is.
00:45:59I was just saying earlier about, I mean, it's still around now, but in the early days when
00:46:04I was doing installing printers, you had to use cups and things like this.
00:46:09And I called them hacks because it's a pain in the butt.
00:46:13If it goes wrong, you're back there trying to fix something.
00:46:18And I'm like, OK, dude, just get another printer because you're going to have less problems.
00:46:21The printer's already five years old.
00:46:23Just get another printer.
00:46:25So what you're saying completely makes sense.
00:46:29Completely makes sense.
00:46:30Because, again, you've been in it just as long as I have, maybe even longer.
00:46:35And it's crazy how, yeah, these guys just talk all the time and not do.
00:46:44They're talking and not doing.
00:46:45Right.
00:46:47That's one of the reasons why, like, I was with and forgive me, I don't remember the
00:46:52guy's name now.
00:46:53He served under our President 44 in his IT.
00:47:01And if I got his name, I just met him one time.
00:47:05So this guy, when I was with him in Martinsville, Virginia, here in 2019, he says one of the
00:47:11issues in IT is we really need to get because we're so 95 percent of our industry is made
00:47:19up of men.
00:47:20We really need to have a different perspective come in.
00:47:23It's not that our perspective is wrong, but maybe a different way of doing things and
00:47:29helping people.
00:47:30And, you know, and he said, you know, maybe we're missing 50 percent of our world's population.
00:47:37Maybe it would be nice to get women involved in it.
00:47:40So I think there's a definite need on just that, you know, ability to me.
00:47:47I'm not concerned.
00:47:48It's the bedside manner part would be super helpful.
00:47:52Super.
00:47:53Right.
00:47:54We would touch on this as well.
00:47:55I don't think it's necessarily a female thing or transgender thing or a gay thing.
00:48:02I think it's more to do with the messaging thing.
00:48:05And this is basically what we're trying to do.
00:48:08It's the messaging, trying to get the message across that it's it's the it's the end result.
00:48:16We were just talking about this is the end result and how you talk to the client.
00:48:21Stop talking geek.
00:48:22Geek doesn't mean anything to the end user, right?
00:48:26It just doesn't.
00:48:27We know that stuff.
00:48:28We know it.
00:48:29We can talk about it to the cows come home, even though I get bored with it as well.
00:48:33Right.
00:48:34I've been in conversations with some techies and then I don't even get it.
00:48:39Well, how the hell is the end user going to get it if I don't get it or it's too complicated
00:48:44for me to understand it?
00:48:45I have to get the encyclopedia to figure out what you're actually saying.
00:48:50Messaging matters, not the quota.
00:48:52And I will stick to that until my dying day, because it doesn't matter if a dog can do
00:48:57the job, get the dog to do the job.
00:49:00You know, don't just get it because it's a quota.
00:49:03I mean, look at what's happening in the police force, especially in the US, right?
00:49:07They've got quotas to give out tickets.
00:49:10It's not.
00:49:11So they can.
00:49:12I mean, it's a fucking mess right now.
00:49:15So the beginning of the month and the end of the month is horrible.
00:49:19There you go.
00:49:20There you go.
00:49:21I watch it all on YouTube.
00:49:22It's hilarious.
00:49:23I watch it on YouTube anyway, but no, it's great to get you in and I can see it in your
00:49:31face that you're just fed up with it as well.
00:49:34I think we all are.
00:49:35I think, I mean, if you can see our faces, can you imagine what the client's thinking?
00:49:42This is the whole thing.
00:49:44I mean, if you think we're so fed up with it, the client must be just livid.
00:49:51It's like, I don't get it.
00:49:52Just do it.
00:49:53I mean, a lot of, you know, again, been in tech for so long, or most of the time I just
00:50:00say, I just need it fixed.
00:50:01I just need to do it.
00:50:03Not how are you doing it?
00:50:05It's very rare if someone says, how are you doing it?
00:50:08It's like, it's not working.
00:50:09I need a printer.
00:50:10The network's not this.
00:50:12Why?
00:50:13You know, just get it working.
00:50:14I just need to do my work.
00:50:16It's like 1% who wants to know, you know, 1%.
00:50:19It's very rare.
00:50:21Very, very rare.
00:50:22And then when you get into it, sometimes when I get into it, they're like, okay, enough
00:50:26already.
00:50:28You know, that's the thing.
00:50:32Anyway.
00:50:33Thanks, Brian.
00:50:34It was good to just pull you in.
00:50:36Yeah.
00:50:37You take care.
00:50:38You have a great day.
00:50:39Yeah, you too.
00:50:40Cheers.
00:50:41It was great to get, you could just see it in his face, I'm fed up already.
00:50:47It's crazy how, as I said, if we are going through this anguish and annoyance, the end
00:50:54result.
00:50:55What are they doing?
00:50:57It's just crazy.
00:50:58Unbelievable.
00:50:59And I would encourage, like, so if you are a tech and you're listening to this and you're
00:51:03like, I hear what you're saying, but I have no clue because it's just not natural to me
00:51:08and I'm too aggravated of dealing with the same problem time and time again.
00:51:14Like number one, like change the tones in your voice.
00:51:18A book that I love that's been revolutionary has been Chris Voss, Never Split the Difference.
00:51:23So instead of asking how questions, it's just changing the conversation and how you're
00:51:29talking to people to extrapolate the information that you need.
00:51:32Your diagnosis, like that's your job is to help filter through the stuff.
00:51:36And if you can learn how to ask specific questions, you're going to get the answers you need because
00:51:42the end user doesn't know everything.
00:51:44So that's one thing.
00:51:45You know, it's like learn communication tools, write a script of questions that you can ask
00:51:52time and time again because you know you deal with the same stuff on a regular basis.
00:51:55So think of like a script to talk to people and say, hey, you know, my thing is I want
00:52:01the end user.
00:52:02I'm going to create a script of here's what you need to preemptively tell the tech.
00:52:06I have already restarted it.
00:52:08I have checked all of the plugs.
00:52:09You know, this is the error code, you know, so that you can help them.
00:52:15You know, like the tech can work, the end user can work, and maybe in the middle it
00:52:19might get a little bit better.
00:52:21And then to like, listen, learn to listen.
00:52:25I mean, you have to be you have to be assertive as well.
00:52:27That's a key thing because you don't want to be walked over because of these questions.
00:52:34Right.
00:52:35Nobody does.
00:52:36I when I worked at ITN, I had a call.
00:52:40I used to work at night.
00:52:41So it was from 11 o'clock at night till eight in the morning.
00:52:46And I used to get calls at about seven o'clock in the morning when they used to come in,
00:52:53the journalists, and they had no idea about tech or anything.
00:52:57However, this one day, this one person called and said the TV isn't working.
00:53:03Now, it was plugged in with a SCART cable.
00:53:06So this isn't computers.
00:53:07I used to deal with vision mixes and audio mixes.
00:53:09My background is in music.
00:53:11And so the SCART wasn't in.
00:53:15But the story was he was calling me like it's not working.
00:53:18And you could hear this guy banging on the TV.
00:53:21And I'm like, can you stop?
00:53:24I literally just lost it because I could like, what the hell are you doing?
00:53:29How are you helping?
00:53:31Like, no, no, don't beat it.
00:53:33So it's not going to work.
00:53:34But I was I was known as the no BS guy.
00:53:37I just was.
00:53:38Everyone knew because that's just who I am.
00:53:41Yeah.
00:53:42And if you listen to last week's episode, there's a story there.
00:53:46But anyway.
00:53:47And so I went up to see him.
00:53:51And he's still hitting it, right?
00:53:53And I'm like, dude, seriously.
00:53:55Yeah, but I need to get working.
00:53:56I'm like, but if you keep hitting it, it's going to break it.
00:54:00So I figured out what it was.
00:54:02It was so simple.
00:54:03The SCART was slightly out.
00:54:04So I plugged it back in.
00:54:06So I basically said to him, you got a TV at home, right?
00:54:08He goes, yeah.
00:54:09He goes, well, if you're if you're a video recorder,
00:54:12because it was the video connected to the TV.
00:54:14If the video wasn't working, what would you do?
00:54:15He goes, oh, look at the cables.
00:54:17So you wouldn't hit it.
00:54:18No, it's my TV.
00:54:20Duh.
00:54:22Seriously?
00:54:24Don't fucking do it again.
00:54:25And walked away.
00:54:27We became good buddies.
00:54:29Because I'm the new no BS guy.
00:54:32And you've got to stand your ground to a certain degree.
00:54:35Don't get walked over.
00:54:36But you can't cross that line as being a complete dick.
00:54:39That's the point.
00:54:40So the thing is, I've.
00:54:42So what would you tell them?
00:54:43How do you teach a tech who they know what they're talking about
00:54:47and they're dealing with, because not every end user is nice.
00:54:49They can be complete jerks and just frustrated and arrogant.
00:54:53I deal with them all the time.
00:54:55Go deescalate them first if you really want to get to it.
00:54:58So what would you tell the tech?
00:54:59OK, I could give you another story at the same place.
00:55:02So someone was calling and screaming down the phone.
00:55:05No hello, no nothing.
00:55:06Just screaming down the phone.
00:55:08And I was saying, I don't understand.
00:55:10Can you calm down a little bit and explain it to me?
00:55:13How did you get that?
00:55:14Started swearing.
00:55:15Didn't say anything to him.
00:55:16I put the phone down.
00:55:18Just do it.
00:55:19I'm sorry, I'm not going to do this.
00:55:21Phone up again.
00:55:22Happened three times.
00:55:23Fourth time, he picked up, I'm really sorry, blah, blah, blah.
00:55:27I said, no problem.
00:55:27I can understand it.
00:55:29Let's get into it.
00:55:30So I wasn't angry in any way, because it wasn't at me.
00:55:34It was at the situation.
00:55:37There's a subtle difference, right?
00:55:39And the thing is, what IT people don't understand
00:55:42is that you really are a doctor.
00:55:45You really are doing that intricate work,
00:55:48even though you haven't got DR in front of your name,
00:55:51doctor in front of your name.
00:55:52You are doing such important work
00:55:55for that person at that time.
00:55:57So you've got to understand how you've
00:56:00got to be a psychiatrist, basically, a psychologist,
00:56:02or whatever, all rolled into one.
00:56:04Because they're only calling you when things go wrong.
00:56:08They're only calling.
00:56:09So you've got to understand
00:56:10that they have this massive cloud.
00:56:14Yes, yeah.
00:56:16Right?
00:56:17So they're going to say anything and everything
00:56:18because they need to get their work done.
00:56:21And the reason why I worked at that place
00:56:23for seven years, eight years,
00:56:25is because my remit from my boss, I was a freelancer,
00:56:31was you're the fireman.
00:56:33Get in, put the fire out, and get the guys that know,
00:56:37you know, third line people,
00:56:40that know how to fix this stuff, to actually fix it.
00:56:43Your remit is to just put the fire out
00:56:45and make sure that the client is happy.
00:56:48Doesn't matter what you do,
00:56:49whether you use gaffer tape, duct tape, whatever.
00:56:52I mean, there was a time when they were live on air,
00:56:56and I had bleached blonde hair at this time.
00:56:58They were live on air, and you had seconds to get in
00:57:02to fix stuff.
00:57:03Now, I dealt with everything.
00:57:06Anything with electricity in it, I dealt with it.
00:57:08Whether it was a light bulb, a printer, vision mixers,
00:57:12the lighting in the studios, everything.
00:57:15Printer died, they're live on air, and they need to print.
00:57:18So there are two people, and they're calling crazy,
00:57:22like, okay, I'm coming.
00:57:24So you have to go into the studio,
00:57:26and this is what I mean about putting the fire out.
00:57:29You have to do it while they're live on air.
00:57:32So I'm between their legs, like they were sitting.
00:57:35I'm between their legs,
00:57:36and because I had quite big, high blonde hair,
00:57:40you could see the hair.
00:57:44But the job is to put the fire out, get out, right?
00:57:49So again, you just have to deal with it in those situations.
00:57:52And that particular job, I mean,
00:57:55I'd done IT way before then,
00:57:57but that particular job showed me how putting fires out
00:58:03mattered more than fixing things.
00:58:06Meaning the client, the end result matters, again.
00:58:10The remit was put the fire out, the end result matters.
00:58:14Get them happy, keep them online.
00:58:17They were caught, I was, you know, my background was music.
00:58:20So when the sound guy was coming in drunk,
00:58:24the producer would say,
00:58:25dude, you got to do the sound for the morning news.
00:58:29I was doing sound for the morning news, putting the fire out.
00:58:32It wasn't, should I do it?
00:58:33Well, God, no, that was your thing.
00:58:37You just had to do it.
00:58:38So I think the point is to understand
00:58:43that whenever you get a call into IT,
00:58:49they have a problem.
00:58:50They already have this issue.
00:58:53Don't make the issue you.
00:58:56Fix their issue, don't make it you.
00:59:00And a lot of IT guys do this whole rolling of eyes.
00:59:04Oh, Jesus, I'll stop, you know, whatever.
00:59:06But if they get rude or they don't calm down, call it out.
00:59:11Yeah, absolutely call it out.
00:59:13Yep, yep.
00:59:14So I'm gonna break it down for you Southern style
00:59:17and like where I grew up.
00:59:18This is what we call, you're telling the techs
00:59:20they need to put their big boy pants on
00:59:22and need to handle their business
00:59:24and stop taking it personal, right?
00:59:26Right, right.
00:59:27So grow some and deal with it, right?
00:59:29That's what we're saying.
00:59:31Grow some and deal with it.
00:59:32That's it, it's your job.
00:59:33If you don't like that part of it,
00:59:35you have to learn to fix it or find something else.
00:59:38Learn how to fix it or just find something else
00:59:40because you just have to do it.
00:59:43It's not a case of, I don't wanna do this part of it.
00:59:46If you're lucky enough to do the third line thing
00:59:49and never have to speak to clients,
00:59:51understand that your client is second line or first line.
00:59:55That's still a client.
00:59:57You still have to deal with them.
00:59:59It's not just sitting behind the screen
01:00:01doing whatever it is you're doing.
01:00:03You still have to fix a problem for someone.
01:00:06So you have to deal with it.
01:00:09I've learned a lot there.
01:00:11Yeah, it's a little bit deeper, right?
01:00:14It's a little bit deeper.
01:00:15It's a little bit deeper, yeah.
01:00:16It's going in.
01:00:17We're learning how to grow up a little bit today.
01:00:18Yeah, yeah.
01:00:19Hey, awesome, awesome chat.
01:00:22Really enjoyed it.
01:00:25Say goodbye to Brian for me.
01:00:27I shall.
01:00:28And I'm sure we'll have another conversation.
01:00:30We'll definitely keep in touch.
01:00:32I'll be on LinkedIn.
01:00:34Yeah.
01:00:35Maybe we'll do another one another time as well, for sure.
01:00:37Yeah, I might get you in
01:00:39cause I'm like talking to,
01:00:41I do webinars for our people
01:00:44because I firmly believe if I'm gonna be preaching this,
01:00:47I need to be doing something about it.
01:00:49So I bring in, teach them security,
01:00:52teach them basic IT stuff, go over it.
01:00:54And I'm like always having different voices to speak in
01:00:58and do it.
01:00:59Maybe one day I'll like start something cool like this
01:01:02so that other people can connect in here and look.
01:01:05And then together we can change the world, baby.
01:01:07We can do it.
01:01:09Absolutely.
01:01:10Do it.
01:01:10I'll be happy to come in and help out any way I can.
01:01:14Hey, have a great day and say goodbye to Brian again.
01:01:17I will.
01:01:19Thank you so much for the opportunity.
01:01:20Absolutely.
01:01:21Ciao.
01:01:22Bye-bye.